Eru Illuvatar runs the comic top tier gaunlet.

1. Eru vs Living Tribunal

2. Eru vs Lucifer and Michael

3. Eru vs Great Evil Beast

4. Eru vs Presence

5. Eru vs Toaa

I think that Eru would beat all except Presence, and Toaa. I think he can stalemate the Presence, but will lose to Toaa.

So what do you guys think?

Clears first 2. Stalemates next 3.

@Eru_Illuvatar10:

1. wins

2. stalemate

3. wins

4. stalemate

5. loses

Eru is a questionable omnipotent as is the presence, and michael+lucifer practically make the presence so Eru stalemates all of them, of course he will win against LT since LT is not the creator, and Eru loses to the TOAA sinceTOAA is more of a less questionable omnipotent than the presence. so i agree with you about all rounds except lucifer and michael round which i think he stalemates not wins.

Clears. You guys underestimate Eru.

Not enough evidence to say.  On the one hand, he is the creator of his entire universe.  On the other hand, his universe could theoretically be smaller than the multiverses that the others live in, and thus creating it may not take as much power as (some of) the others have expended in their various feats.

Great Evil Beast & The Presence can't be omipotent, because there can only be one omnipotent, being in each universe, seeing how one is the good and one is the bad incarnation of each other and said to be equal there not onnipotent. Who is DC's Omnipotent god? Otherwise who is Eru Illuvater?

I hope i don't say something stupid but here goes: Should't we judge characters on feats rather than only the name or titel? I mean look at what TOAA can do, basicly everything we see today in Marvel from destroying galaxys to bending time to settings things on fire :) so we now what TOAA is capable off right? Now if we look at the LotR univerese and what kind of powers are displayed there they pale in comparison to TOAA from Marvel. So based on feats TOAA would beat the god from LotR. Like is said i hope i doesn't come off as to noobish :)

I hope i dond't say something stupid but here goes: Should't we judge characters on feats rather than only the name or titel? I mean look at what TOAA can do, basicly everything we see today in Marvel from destroying galaxys to bending time to settings things on fire :) so we now what TOAA is capable off right? Now if we look at the LotR univerese and what kind of powers are displayed there they pale in comparison to TOAA from Marvel. So based on feats TOAA would beat the god from LotR. Like is said i hope i doesn't come off as to noobish :)

Unfortunately Eru doesn't have much in the way of feats and his universe is far less impressive than either the DCU or Marvel. As such I feel that he could probably clear the Tribunal but I'm not sure about the rest.

I think Lucifer alone might give him trouble as his power has been twisted before.

@Baldy said:

Unfortunately Eru doesn't have much in the way of feats and his universe is far less impressive than either the DCU or Marvel. As such I feel that he could probably clear the Tribunal but I'm not sure about the rest.

I think Lucifer alone might give him trouble as his power has been twisted before.

omnipotent>nigh omnipotent, and other non omnipotents. I mean, you said to me on another thread. Omnipotence=Omnipotence. How can Lucifer give him trouble?

Eru stalemates both TOAA and Presence since their all essentially the same.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

Unfortunately Eru doesn't have much in the way of feats and his universe is far less impressive than either the DCU or Marvel. As such I feel that he could probably clear the Tribunal but I'm not sure about the rest.

I think Lucifer alone might give him trouble as his power has been twisted before.

omnipotent>nigh omnipotent, and other non omnipotents. I mean, you said to me on another thread. Omnipotence=Omnipotence. How can Lucifer give him trouble?

I don't remember any reference to Eru being omnipotent.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

Unfortunately Eru doesn't have much in the way of feats and his universe is far less impressive than either the DCU or Marvel. As such I feel that he could probably clear the Tribunal but I'm not sure about the rest.

I think Lucifer alone might give him trouble as his power has been twisted before.

omnipotent>nigh omnipotent, and other non omnipotents. I mean, you said to me on another thread. Omnipotence=Omnipotence. How can Lucifer give him trouble?

I don't remember any reference to Eru being omnipotent.

He is stated to be Tolkein himself. Much like Stan Lee being Toaa.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

Unfortunately Eru doesn't have much in the way of feats and his universe is far less impressive than either the DCU or Marvel. As such I feel that he could probably clear the Tribunal but I'm not sure about the rest.

I think Lucifer alone might give him trouble as his power has been twisted before.

omnipotent>nigh omnipotent, and other non omnipotents. I mean, you said to me on another thread. Omnipotence=Omnipotence. How can Lucifer give him trouble?

I don't remember any reference to Eru being omnipotent.

He is stated to be Tolkein himself. Much like Stan Lee being Toaa.

I don't remember this, post a reference please.

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@kingkronos Uh Eru isn't Tolkien but God himself kinda like Aslan is Jesus.

The better way to put it is like Emporer over the seas. Who is God.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

Unfortunately Eru doesn't have much in the way of feats and his universe is far less impressive than either the DCU or Marvel. As such I feel that he could probably clear the Tribunal but I'm not sure about the rest.

I think Lucifer alone might give him trouble as his power has been twisted before.

omnipotent>nigh omnipotent, and other non omnipotents. I mean, you said to me on another thread. Omnipotence=Omnipotence. How can Lucifer give him trouble?

I don't remember any reference to Eru being omnipotent.

He is stated to be Tolkein himself. Much like Stan Lee being Toaa.

I don't remember this, post a reference please.

Nah, I recall that from one of the sites. But not directly form the book. Anyway, I know for sure that Tolkien said that he put joined christianity and greek mythology together.

Like: Melkor represents Satan/Lucifer

Manwe represents Zeus

Ulmo represents Poseidon and etc.....

And the one omnipotent creator God is Eru. He is actually the only God, in Tolkien mythos. And he got inspired by the Christian God, who is omnipotent omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent.

@kingkronos said:

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@kingkronos Uh Eru isn't Tolkien but God himself kinda like Aslan is Jesus.

The better way to put it is like Emporer over the seas. Who is God.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

Unfortunately Eru doesn't have much in the way of feats and his universe is far less impressive than either the DCU or Marvel. As such I feel that he could probably clear the Tribunal but I'm not sure about the rest.

I think Lucifer alone might give him trouble as his power has been twisted before.

omnipotent>nigh omnipotent, and other non omnipotents. I mean, you said to me on another thread. Omnipotence=Omnipotence. How can Lucifer give him trouble?

I don't remember any reference to Eru being omnipotent.

He is stated to be Tolkein himself. Much like Stan Lee being Toaa.

I don't remember this, post a reference please.

Nah, I recall that from one of the sites. But not directly form the book. Anyway, I know for sure that Tolkien said that he put joined christianity and greek mythology together.

Like: Melkor represents Satan/Lucifer

Manwe represents Zeus

Ulmo represents Poseidon and etc.....

And the one omnipotent creator God is Eru. He is actually the only God, in Tolkien mythos. And he got inspired by the Christian God, who is omnipotent omniscient omnipresent omnibenevolent.

I'm not really impressed by who inspired what, it doesn't tell us anything about how powerful someone is. Unless I'm mistaken, for example, Hercules at his strongest in Marvel is far and away stronger than his mythical counterpart.

I have to base my opinion in this thread on how the characters have been portrayed. During the creation of the universe Eru enlisted the help of the Ainur, and while it can be argued that he could have just completed it himself, it does raise questions. His feats are also less impressive than any of the DCU and Marvel gods, nothing he has done is beyond the Living Tribunal for instance and his power was twisted by lesser beings against his will. It's clear that it was against his will because he changed his 'tune' to compensate.

I suspect he could beat the Living Tribunal, purely because I think it probably makes sense for him to be able to, the others are probably a stretch though.

@Baldy: You're wrong. Marvel's Hercules=Myth hercules at best. Unless it's of course CW Herc.

We know that Eru made the Ainur from his thoughts, which is a feat of an omnipotent God. He only wanted to share his creations with his children. And other than that, Eru has no feats. Because that's what an omnipotent being does. He doesn't intervene, even when Melkor was a threat to all the Valar and terrorised all Arda, Eru didn't intervene. Take Toaa for example, he didn't intervene when Pre retcon Beyonder was uber powerful, that's because he's above such things.

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@kingkronos Eru is the same as Emperor of the Sea and Aslan(Emperor of the Sea and Aslan are there parts in the trinity...God the Father and Jesus). Both held to the belief that there characters are characters but actually God in the fiction so they are alternative dimensions of this universe.

So Eru/Emperor of the Sea/Aslan solos the entire lot...TOAA can't beat him and neither can Bugs Bunny(which is big)...Eru/Emperor of the Sea/Aslan has to many feats.

Toaa>Eru and Emperor, since he represents something beyond the fictional world.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: You're wrong. Marvel's Hercules=Myth hercules at best. Unless it's of course CW Herc.

We know that Eru made the Ainur from his thoughts, which is a feat of an omnipotent God. He only wanted to share his creations with his children. And other than that, Eru has no feats. Because that's what an omnipotent being does. He doesn't intervene, even when Melkor was a threat to all the Valar and terrorised all Arda, Eru didn't intervene. Take Toaa for example, he didn't intervene when Pre retcon Beyonder was uber powerful, that's because he's above such things.

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@kingkronos Eru is the same as Emperor of the Sea and Aslan(Emperor of the Sea and Aslan are there parts in the trinity...God the Father and Jesus). Both held to the belief that there characters are characters but actually God in the fiction so they are alternative dimensions of this universe.

So Eru/Emperor of the Sea/Aslan solos the entire lot...TOAA can't beat him and neither can Bugs Bunny(which is big)...Eru/Emperor of the Sea/Aslan has to many feats.

Toaa>Eru and Emperor, since he represents something beyond the fictional world.

Pretty sure you're wrong about Hercules, but that isn't really the discussion at hand. Eru did intervene at least once that I can recall of the top of my head, that being when he resurrected Gandalf.

The fact that Eru created the Ainur from his thoughts isn't that impressive, his will was still twisted Melkor. His universe is far less impressive than the DCU and Marvel universes.

Representing something non-fictional is irrelevant.

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: You're wrong. Marvel's Hercules=Myth hercules at best. Unless it's of course CW Herc.

We know that Eru made the Ainur from his thoughts, which is a feat of an omnipotent God. He only wanted to share his creations with his children. And other than that, Eru has no feats. Because that's what an omnipotent being does. He doesn't intervene, even when Melkor was a threat to all the Valar and terrorised all Arda, Eru didn't intervene. Take Toaa for example, he didn't intervene when Pre retcon Beyonder was uber powerful, that's because he's above such things.

This

@kingkronos Eru also has feats of Emperor of the Sea/Aslan/The Trinity reason why I state this is because in a letter of Tolkien's(and one from C.S. Lewis for Aslan/Emperor of the Sea) he states that they aren't God the father or Jesus figures but rather are God the Father and Jesus of a alternative world and he watches over them.

So since they are one and the same we can take there feats as well and not just would Eru win with only abilties shown in his books but also with Narnia books and Bible this clearly becomes a one sided fight which he solos everyone at the same time with and with no effort

Sorry but this is nonsense. If which letter does he say that Aslan/Emperor is the exact same character as Eru?

Being based on God would mean that he would tie with the DCU and Marvel gods, by definition they would all be equally as powerful as each other as their strength would all be infinite.

@Baldy: It wasn't clear who ressurected him, for all we know it was the Valar, not Eru. But still Toaa intervened by giving some advices to Peter Parker, and GR. Toaa has 14 appearances if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not saying this is impressive, because nothing is impressive to an omnipotent being. But still he didn't need anything, or any time to create them. He created them from his thoughts.

You can't use that Marvel/Dc>Lotr, that's why Toaa>Eru. Omnipotent=Omnipotent. End of story. Eru's will was twisted by Melkor???

And how can Dc and Marvel gods tie with Eru. You're wrong there.

@kingkronos said:

And the one omnipotent creator God is Eru. He is actually the only God, in Tolkien mythos. And he got inspired by the Christian God, who is omnibenevolent.

Wow, that's a new one lol

@The Dude. said:

@kingkronos said:

And the one omnipotent creator God is Eru. He is actually the only God, in Tolkien mythos. And he got inspired by the Christian God, who is omnibenevolent.

Wow, that's a new one lol

Are you saying that this isn't right, or what?

@kingkronos said:

@The Dude. said:

@kingkronos said:

And the one omnipotent creator God is Eru. He is actually the only God, in Tolkien mythos. And he got inspired by the Christian God, who is omnibenevolent.

Wow, that's a new one lol

Are you saying that this isn't right, or what?

No, i'm just saying don't hear that much, is all. Just found it funny when I read id :-)

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: It wasn't clear who ressurected him, for all we know it was the Valar, not Eru. But still Toaa intervened by giving some advices to Peter Parker, and GR. Toaa has 14 appearances if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not saying this is impressive, because nothing is impressive to an omnipotent being. But still he didn't need anything, or any time to create them. He created them from his thoughts.

You can't use that Marvel/Dc>Lotr, that's why Toaa>Eru. Omnipotent=Omnipotent. End of story. Eru's will was twisted by Melkor???

And how can Dc and Marvel gods tie with Eru. You're wrong there.

It wasn't the Valar, it is made clear in one of his letters. He was sent beyond time and the powers of the Valar wouldn't have been able to touch him.

No one has yet demonstrated that Eru is omnipotent. I'm not sure that he is, and IF he is it's far more debatable than TOAA and Presence whose creations are far superior.

By DC and Marvel gods, I refer to the creator gods. Eru is obvious more powerful than the skyfather types.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: It wasn't clear who ressurected him, for all we know it was the Valar, not Eru. But still Toaa intervened by giving some advices to Peter Parker, and GR. Toaa has 14 appearances if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not saying this is impressive, because nothing is impressive to an omnipotent being. But still he didn't need anything, or any time to create them. He created them from his thoughts.

You can't use that Marvel/Dc>Lotr, that's why Toaa>Eru. Omnipotent=Omnipotent. End of story. Eru's will was twisted by Melkor???

And how can Dc and Marvel gods tie with Eru. You're wrong there.

It wasn't the Valar, it is made clear in one of his letters. He was sent beyond time and the powers of the Valar wouldn't have been able to touch him.

No one has yet demonstrated that Eru is omnipotent. I'm not sure that he is, and IF he is it's far more debatable than TOAA and Presence whose creations are far superior.

By DC and Marvel gods, I refer to the creator gods. Eru is obvious more powerful than the skyfather types.

I doubt he can take on Toaa. But he has a good chance against Presence. After all, Presence isn't omnipotent, he has an equal (GEB).

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: It wasn't clear who ressurected him, for all we know it was the Valar, not Eru. But still Toaa intervened by giving some advices to Peter Parker, and GR. Toaa has 14 appearances if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not saying this is impressive, because nothing is impressive to an omnipotent being. But still he didn't need anything, or any time to create them. He created them from his thoughts.

You can't use that Marvel/Dc>Lotr, that's why Toaa>Eru. Omnipotent=Omnipotent. End of story. Eru's will was twisted by Melkor???

And how can Dc and Marvel gods tie with Eru. You're wrong there.

It wasn't the Valar, it is made clear in one of his letters. He was sent beyond time and the powers of the Valar wouldn't have been able to touch him.

No one has yet demonstrated that Eru is omnipotent. I'm not sure that he is, and IF he is it's far more debatable than TOAA and Presence whose creations are far superior.

By DC and Marvel gods, I refer to the creator gods. Eru is obvious more powerful than the skyfather types.

I doubt he can take on Toaa. But he has a good chance against Presence. After all, Presence isn't omnipotent, he has an equal (GEB).

I don't remember the GEB being stated as his equal, and in any case they merged so it's rather pointless. That said I figure the Presence's omnipotence is debatable enough to show him on Eru's level, but only if the Lucifer Presence is the same as the main DCU Presence.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: It wasn't clear who ressurected him, for all we know it was the Valar, not Eru. But still Toaa intervened by giving some advices to Peter Parker, and GR. Toaa has 14 appearances if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not saying this is impressive, because nothing is impressive to an omnipotent being. But still he didn't need anything, or any time to create them. He created them from his thoughts.

You can't use that Marvel/Dc>Lotr, that's why Toaa>Eru. Omnipotent=Omnipotent. End of story. Eru's will was twisted by Melkor???

And how can Dc and Marvel gods tie with Eru. You're wrong there.

It wasn't the Valar, it is made clear in one of his letters. He was sent beyond time and the powers of the Valar wouldn't have been able to touch him.

No one has yet demonstrated that Eru is omnipotent. I'm not sure that he is, and IF he is it's far more debatable than TOAA and Presence whose creations are far superior.

By DC and Marvel gods, I refer to the creator gods. Eru is obvious more powerful than the skyfather types.

I doubt he can take on Toaa. But he has a good chance against Presence. After all, Presence isn't omnipotent, he has an equal (GEB).

I don't remember the GEB being stated as his equal, and in any case they merged so it's rather pointless. That said I figure the Presence's omnipotence is debatable enough to show him on Eru's level, but only if the Lucifer Presence is the same as the main DCU Presence.

Yes Presence' omnipotence is debatable as is Eru's. So I say he stalemates Presence, beats LT, and loses to Toaa.

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: It wasn't clear who ressurected him, for all we know it was the Valar, not Eru. But still Toaa intervened by giving some advices to Peter Parker, and GR. Toaa has 14 appearances if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not saying this is impressive, because nothing is impressive to an omnipotent being. But still he didn't need anything, or any time to create them. He created them from his thoughts.

You can't use that Marvel/Dc>Lotr, that's why Toaa>Eru. Omnipotent=Omnipotent. End of story. Eru's will was twisted by Melkor???

And how can Dc and Marvel gods tie with Eru. You're wrong there.

It wasn't the Valar, it is made clear in one of his letters. He was sent beyond time and the powers of the Valar wouldn't have been able to touch him.

No one has yet demonstrated that Eru is omnipotent. I'm not sure that he is, and IF he is it's far more debatable than TOAA and Presence whose creations are far superior.

By DC and Marvel gods, I refer to the creator gods. Eru is obvious more powerful than the skyfather types.

I doubt he can take on Toaa. But he has a good chance against Presence. After all, Presence isn't omnipotent, he has an equal (GEB).

I don't remember the GEB being stated as his equal, and in any case they merged so it's rather pointless. That said I figure the Presence's omnipotence is debatable enough to show him on Eru's level, but only if the Lucifer Presence is the same as the main DCU Presence.

Yes Presence' omnipotence is debatable as is Eru's. So I say he stalemates Presence, beats LT, and loses to Toaa.

Probably. Need more information on DCU's cosmology to know for sure, but it seems that way.

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy said:

@kingkronos said:

@Baldy: It wasn't clear who ressurected him, for all we know it was the Valar, not Eru. But still Toaa intervened by giving some advices to Peter Parker, and GR. Toaa has 14 appearances if I'm not mistaken.

I'm not saying this is impressive, because nothing is impressive to an omnipotent being. But still he didn't need anything, or any time to create them. He created them from his thoughts.

You can't use that Marvel/Dc>Lotr, that's why Toaa>Eru. Omnipotent=Omnipotent. End of story. Eru's will was twisted by Melkor???

And how can Dc and Marvel gods tie with Eru. You're wrong there.

It wasn't the Valar, it is made clear in one of his letters. He was sent beyond time and the powers of the Valar wouldn't have been able to touch him.

No one has yet demonstrated that Eru is omnipotent. I'm not sure that he is, and IF he is it's far more debatable than TOAA and Presence whose creations are far superior.

By DC and Marvel gods, I refer to the creator gods. Eru is obvious more powerful than the skyfather types.

I doubt he can take on Toaa. But he has a good chance against Presence. After all, Presence isn't omnipotent, he has an equal (GEB).

I don't remember the GEB being stated as his equal, and in any case they merged so it's rather pointless. That said I figure the Presence's omnipotence is debatable enough to show him on Eru's level, but only if the Lucifer Presence is the same as the main DCU Presence.

Yes Presence' omnipotence is debatable as is Eru's. So I say he stalemates Presence, beats LT, and loses to Toaa.

Probably. Need more information on DCU's cosmology to know for sure, but it seems that way.

You mean Vertigo Presence isn't the same as Dc presence? No, I'm sure they're the same.

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@Baldy What I was saying is that they held to a religious belief system that God is not a fictional character in the fiction but actually is God in said fiction. And since both believed this they shared ideas such as: the pool where you can see the future amongst others. I do not have the reference cause I sold it so you can decide whether to believe me or not. While I do know this as fact I will not use this in the argument cause I can't back it.

Now Eru solos the lot at the same time cause while all are "omnipotent", Eru is God and thus has power over the other creators, he does not stalemate the other creators cause The One Above All for example is Stan Lee and thus while all powerful in his world, he is Mortal in ours. As stated in Silmarillion(don't have page but it is in the chapter with the flame) he has other worlds(C.S. Lewis' Aslan said the same with "You'll know me by another name" thus one thing that says what I was trying to prove).

This I may or may not show what I am saying but please don't say I'm getting this from my head...I read this but can't find the reference. I say Eru wins.

Are you trying to turn this into a religious debate? Eru is just as fictional a character as any of the others and I see no evidence to suggest that he is the same character as Aslan, so go ahead and leave the LWAW books out of this debate.

The fact remains that Eru's omnipotence is just as debatable as the Presence, and far less concrete than TOAA. Who characters are based on is completely irrelevant.

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@Baldy I am simply stating that if someone is based(or as I read in that letter is a alternative...but again can't prove) on a omnipotent person who is stated to be above everyone in any place at any time then guess what that person wins.

Illuvatar is based on God himself, One Above All is Stan Lee, and Presence is based on DC comicbook writers. I think the key to discovering who wins is what they are based off of and so Religion will pop up at least once. God would stomp Stan Lee and DC comicbook creators and if you transfer it to the alternatives a.k.a. Illuvatar, One Above All, and Presence the logic will apply there as well.

Who or what a character is based on is completely irrelevant.

@BlueLantern1995: You can't say that Eru wins just because he is based on a character (who some people think is real). For what's worth, Presence is based on Christian god, and so are a lot of fictional characters. You can't put a verse higher than another just because they are supposedly real. I would say that Lucifer MS is more powerful than his Bible counterpart. In VS Forums all the verses are equal. No verse is superior to the other except for feats.

Assuming we view in religious person's perspective: God in fiction and non-fictional world can't be the same. I believe they're some special literary concept that allows truly omnipotent being to exist individually, and thus, TOAA is not the same deity as Presence.

Something like, how can God be killed in Saints of Killers? If all God in fiction is the same, then they should all be dead by now.

So that why it's impossible for omnipotent and omnipotent being to even met each other. Different fictional works are like different holy books, they are written with different belief.

Even if Eru is based on Christian God, they are still not the same being, because in actual Christianity, God never created LOTR omniverse or whatever. Since that never happens, they can't be the same being. I know they're many paradox into this, but I tried to arrange my expression as best as I can.

Stalemate is an answer to such scenario.

@BlueLantern1995: Actually, Presence was based on Yahweh.

@BlueLantern1995: Yes, but I think Yahweh is God, and Jehovah is "Lord" or something.

@BlueLantern1995 said:

@kingkronos Its 2 names for the same guy. The Jews didn't want to use Yahweh's name in a common and thus blasphamous name and so they made the name Jehovah for him. And by the way, since I am one of those people who believe he exists I think I should know a lot about this topic.

I never said that you don't know about this topic. And thanks for the information.

1. Victory

2. Stalemate

3. Victory

4. Stalemate

5. Defeat

Great Evil Beast & The Presence can't be omipotent, because there can only be one omnipotent, being in each universe, seeing how one is the good and one is the bad incarnation of each other and said to be equal there not onnipotent. Who is DC's Omnipotent god? Otherwise who is Eru Illuvater?

Omnipotent vs omnipotent = stalemate

@The_Thunderer: Well, there's levels of omnipotence, for example, omnipotent generally refers to absolute power over and within one universe, like there is in LOTR. The kind of "omnipotence" you get off TOAA is omniversal.....

And the Presence isn't really omnipotent.......

@ShootingNova: If you are omnipotent, all of reality is your domain, therefore you can't really have more than 1 omnipotent per reality. Therefore its a draw.

@The_Thunderer:

om·nip·o·tent [om níppətənt]

adjective

all-powerful: possessing complete, unlimited, or universal power and authority

-- Taken from the Dictionary

And TOAA is omniversal. Like I said, the domain of Eru is simply one universe, while TOAA is omnipotent throughout all the universes, multiverses etc.

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

Clears. You guys underestimate Eru.

No he doesn't

@Jonny_Anonymous said:

@jeanroygrant said:

Great Evil Beast & The Presence can't be omipotent, because there can only be one omnipotent, being in each universe, seeing how one is the good and one is the bad incarnation of each other and said to be equal there not onnipotent. Who is DC's Omnipotent god? Otherwise who is Eru Illuvater?

The GEB and the Presence are two aspects of the same being

which is?

@jeanroygrant said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

Clears. You guys underestimate Eru.

No he doesn't

That was a troll comment from like 2 months ago lol.

"Be water my friend"

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

@jeanroygrant said:

@YourNeighborhoodComicGeek said:

Clears. You guys underestimate Eru.

No he doesn't

That was a troll comment from like 2 months ago lol.

"Be water my friend"

Oh, are you Ferro Vidda?

@ShootingNova: In all aspects of TOAA reality he is the sole omnipotent being, in all of Eru's reality he is the sole omnipotent being.

@The_Thunderer said:

@ShootingNova: In all aspects of TOAA reality he is the sole omnipotent being, in all of Eru's reality he is the sole omnipotent being.

Not the point I was making. Eru is universal, while TOAA is omniversal. Eru can't touch TOAA, TOAA can. An omniverse is an infinite number of multiverses, which are the multiple universes.

@ShootingNova said:

@The_Thunderer said:

@ShootingNova: In all aspects of TOAA reality he is the sole omnipotent being, in all of Eru's reality he is the sole omnipotent being.

Not the point I was making. Eru is universal, while TOAA is omniversal. Eru can't touch TOAA, TOAA can. An omniverse is an infinite number of multiverses, which are the multiple universes.

i'm saying it doesn't matter how many universes you control if you are omnipotent because you can create infinite universes.

@ShootingNova said:

@The_Thunderer said:

@ShootingNova: In all aspects of TOAA reality he is the sole omnipotent being, in all of Eru's reality he is the sole omnipotent being.

Not the point I was making. Eru is universal, while TOAA is omniversal. Eru can't touch TOAA, TOAA can. An omniverse is an infinite number of multiverses, which are the multiple universes.

Being omniversal or universal is fairly meaningless. If an entity is omnipotent, then it is considered to be infinite in power. The fact that one omnipotent being decides to create a single universe while another decides to create multiple is irrelevant and is a matter of personal choice rather than power.

The part that makes his argument fall over is that fact that Eru is not omnipotent. This is not debatable, there are things that Eru cannot do.