Eragon vs Carter Kane

Because Carter can just BFR him into the Duat like he did with Leroy.

Jmarshmallow

@darkdefender:

There are a few where he might and I don't know if a death spell would actually work on Carter like that.

Why would a death spell not work?

Given their not completely crazy different in speed I believe if Eragon tried for a blitz Carter could get a few spells off.

There is a massive difference in their speed. Carter doesn't compare at all.

If there were more certainties to this battle I might even give it to Eragon the entirety of the fight but due to the weird differences in their magic and Carter probably having the reaction time necessary to get a lucky shot I'm willing to tie Carter a few wins.

Carter doesn't have the reaction time necessary. His feat of deflecting daggers was when he hosted Horus, IIRC. And I doubt the differences in their magic should make a difference.

Carter won't have time to cast a spell before Eragon kills him.

Carter doesn't "cast spells" really.

He just visualizes it, and it happens.

Jmarshmallow

@stormdriven: Eh, the dagger feat's tricky, because he was hosting Horus but he didn't even know it, and he wasn't the Eye of Horus. I'll allow that kind of speed for Carter to make it more even. And remember, he's also fought fairly evenly with Percy, a bullet timer

Regardless, Eragon could easily end this fight with a word, and Carter would be defenseless to stop it.

IIRC, Percy had him on the ropes, and Carter couldn't even attack due to Percy's skill. Eragon has speed and skill in spades, greater than Percy's own. There really isn't anything Carter can do.

@jmarshmallow: ]

Casually? He didn't understand it in the slightest, and it even says that he drew from the power of the Eldunari.

And just like then, Understanding is pointless given he Is capable of doing it, that and Afterwards the Eldunari Explain it to him on his way to Galbatorix Fight. Hes at the point were he is capable of amending the spell later on.(Something extremely dangerous and risky in that universe). I'll get tot he eldunari bit later.

Couple problems here.

1). An Eldunari, if I read over it's description accurately, is a body part of a dragon, correct? With that being the case, are you saying that a pile of organs was about 3/4 the size of a dragon? Wow.

2). Okay, so Eragon warped a pile of organs. Cool. We're going to assume for a second that the pile was fairly large. Even so, there's no telling if he could do that while in battle. We don't know what the words of the spell entail, we don't know how long it took him to cast them, and we don't know if they require absolute concentration while casting, something that he clearly WOULDN'T have in a battle situation.

3). Even if we assume (yet another assumption I might add), that Eragon can do that in a battle context (even though we have no proof of that), there's absolutely NOTHING showing that he's able to warp a person into it.

"a faint glow filled the tent as he lifted the lid off the chest.

Nestled securely within the velvet lined interior lay Gleadr's Eldunari, The Dragons Heart of Hearts. The Large, Jewel Like stone glittered darkly, like a dying ember. Eragon cupped the Eldunari between his hands, the irregular, sharp-edged facets warm against his palms, and stared into it's pulsing depths. a galaxy of tiny stars swirled within the center of the stone, although there movement had slowed and there seemed to be far fewer than when Eragon had first beheld the stone in Ellesmera, when Glaedr had Discharged it from his body and into Eragon and Saphira's Care."

1. The Eldunari is a Stone that is vomited up from a dragon(Hopefully when they reach maturity) It contains their entire essence and energy. The Size varies depending on the Dragon that discourages it. I.E the one from Glaedr was around the Size of Eragons Forearm if i remember(I could be wrong on that one). The amount Eragon put into the pocket deminsion was 243. even if we were to assume the Eldunari were from young dragons(which they were not all) Then each would have been around half the size of Eragons forearm in diameter. so yes, probably around the size of 3/4 of Saphira
2. Not much of an assumption given their numbers, but okay...There is nothing saying he can't use it in battle.that's the problem with TIS magic.. its the most versatile thing possible imo. We know that it entails an area around an object being twisted into a small, compact dimension. I addressed concentration above, Eragon was trained to cast complex and lengthy spells in combat.
3. Nothing showing he could not warp a person actually as the person does not matter. What ever is in the area of the spell gets warped. he can adjust the Spell to take things out and put things in. And most certainly Adjust the spell to warp a person in it, which he probably does not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't it even say he drew from not one, but TWO sources?

First, Umaroth says "Take from us the strength needed to cast it." So there's one source that he drew from.

And then later it says that he "drew upon the reserves of the Eldunari"

And the OP specifically says he CAN'T draw upon the Eldunari.

So doesn't that negate that feat?

uh, okay, wrong. He only drew form one source.

Umaroth is one of the Eldunari

Which would be a problem if the only thing he drew upon was Their energy for the spell. He has more than sufficient energy in Aren to complete the task.

@arcus: The incantation length is pointless as that was one of the cornerstones of Eragons training was fighting whilst using spells and engage din mental combat.

He can use Aren to supplement the strength for the spell.

What word could Eragon use to end this fight so simply?

Oh, and Eragon is NOT more skilled than Percy, nor is he faster.

Jmarshmallow

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow:

What word could Eragon use to end this fight so simply?

Deyja, which simply means "die."

Oh, and Eragon is NOT more skilled than Percy, nor is he faster.

Eragon is one of the most proficient swordsmen in the entire Inheritance series, able to beat almost any opponent in the series (save a couple). And his physical stats are much higher than Percy's, thanks to his elven transformation. Eragon has been able to beat some of the most skilled elven warriors in sword combat (just as reference, two elven warriors were able to fend off 100 human swordsmen). He's easily fought entire battalions on his own, and fought through a garrison almost single handidly during the Siege of Feinster.

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow:

Oh, and Eragon is NOT more skilled than Percy, nor is he faster.

I respectfully disagree, The way of knowing sword style is more effective than Percys haphazard Greek form. And being able to cover 250 yards in two quick bounds is most certainly faster than anything Percy has exhibited...

Well battle forum rules don't work that way.

It isn't, "Well they haven't shown that they CAN'T do it, so that means that they can."

Unless they're shown doing it, or there's some strong evidence suggesting they can, then it can't be used.

Again, if it hasn't been shown that it will work on living, breathing people/animals that can actually fight back against it, then it doesn't count. And we can't use it.

Again, I would agree with you. if not for the very nature of TIS Magic. You say words, it happens. The energy drained is equivalent to the energy it would take to actually do the task.

I.E, if i shown Eragon using the spell "Letta: to stop an arrow, then he can use the exact same spell to stop a charging human.

Magic was the art of thinking, as Brom mentioned that a true master of gramarye could use the word for "water" and create something that appeared to be entirely unrelated, such as a gemstone, though the relation would be clear in his mind. A magic user's abilities were limited by his knowledge of the Ancient Language; the smaller his vocabulary, the fewer feats of magic he was be able to perform. This was the common misconception. The more clever the spellcaster, the more they could accomplish with one word plus what they could do without the structure of the Ancient Language.

As explained by Oromis, sound itself had no control over magic. Most magic users, however, continued to speak words aloud, ensuring that stray thoughts did not disrupt the spells they cast.

Is Aren's energy = to Umaroth energy?

Umaroth by himself? Heck yes. All of the Eldunari? Hell no. but he doesn't need all of the Eldunari.

Aren is the culmination of 20 or more years of Brom pushing every bit of energy he had into the ring. And then the Belt(when Eragon had it) was consistently charged with a few days worth of energy, which would be enough to cast the spell. The gem in the Pommel of Brisngr would probably have the energy. Besides, there are a lot of options besides Aren

He can use Magic to hold Carter completely in place

"As the last phrase left the king’s lips, a force gripped Eragon, stopping him in mid-stride. The jolt shook a yelp of surprise from him. He tried to move, but his body might as well have been encased in stone. All he could do was breathe, look, and as he had already discovered, speak. He did not understand; his wards should have protected him from the king’s magic. That they did not left him feeling as if he were teetering on the edge of a vast abyss. Next to him, Saphira, Arya, and Elva appeared likewise immobilized."

He can Blind him, Cast illusions, Turn himself invisible, Break his legs with wind, Explode the ground around him, Summon lightning, etc etc. it is literally limitless.

If i wanted to start speculating, I could say he simply distorts time and kills carter before he thinks.

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow:

Hm. Can't those just be deflected with wards though?

Wards Carter doesn't have.

And Percy is THE most proficient swordsmen in the entire Percy Jackon/Heroes of Olympus Percy. In fact, they even comment on how he is the "greatest swordsman in the last 100 years."

I'm not knocking Percy at all. In fact, I always believed him to be the best (progressed farther than even Luke IMO), but Eragon has bested warriors who've had centuries of experience on him with maybe a year or two in comparison. Percy does have his high end feat of dueling Ares and wounding him, but he was also amped by water in that fight.

Percy has done the same, only his opponents are GODS.

Not all of his opponents are gods. In fact, the majority of the opponents he duels in sword combat are gods. Few are as impressive either. And actually, Eragon ended up beating the opponents who originally beat him in the last book, thanks to the training he received and his Way of Knowing, which allows him to interpret a person's body language and combine it with the knowledge he has of his opponent to determine what they'll do, if he can beat them, etc.

False. Percy was strong enough to hold up the sky, completely invulnerable thanks to the Curse of Achilles, and so fast that he was able to blitz Hyperion who is the Titan of Light, and therefore lightspeed.

Percy's strength feats aren't consistent with him holding up the sky, or else he would be ragdolling everyone he fought, and shattering weapons with ease. And current Percy doesn't have the Curse, so that's a moot point.

In his fight with Hyperion, he didn't blitz him. Hyperion was able to keep up with him, it's just Percy was hitting him with the hurricane he unintentionally summoned. Also, Hyperion isn't lightspeed, otherwise he would have easily killed everyone and their mother in the Battle for New York.

Percy has been able to beat Hades (just as a reference, Hades can raise and control entire ARMIES of undead swordsmen), and he had to FIGHT through those undead swordmen to get to him.

All of this was with the Curse, which he doesn't have now.

Percy has fought through entire armies on MULTIPLE occasions. And his consisted of gods, demigods, undead warriors, ghosts, etc.

Bear in mind, Percy also uses his powers in the majority of his fights with large groups. Eragon has some using magic, and some solely using his skill and speed.

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow:

The fact is that magic can block those Words of Death. They can be countered. And if anyone would have the magic to do it, it'd be Carter.

Depending on the knowledge Carter is given, he won't know Eragon has a Word of Death, so won't have a defense for it.

And Eragon was amped by Eldunari, Aren, etc.

The point is, Percy's best feats are better than Eragon's best feat, amped or not.

If they're both amped, then Percy would stomp Eragon because of his hax, skill, versatility, etc.

Eragon actually only uses the Eldunari and Aren for spellcasting, or to replenish his energy when he's extremely tired. In most of the battles he participates, he doesn't use them. And he only received the Eldunari midway through the last book for the final battle.

Skill wise, Eragon has better feats, bar the Ares duel. He's beaten beings far superior to any human with ease, and in droves. Percy has done the same through the use of his powers.

Depending on the amp, then maybe. Curse of Achilles would give Percy the win, given he can't be killed by any means Eragon has.

Did you just contradict yourself lol?

On accident, yeah XD

I meant demigods and monsters for that second part. Epic fail T_T

I don't know how you can equate all of that with defeating a giant who was LITERALLY CREATED TO DEFEAT POSEIDON.

Not a swordsmanship feat, and one Eragon can easily replicate regardless, thanks to his inhuman agility and strength.

Not really, since most demigods are on that level of strength. Case in point: Annabeth was able to hold up the sky, as was Luke. The majority of people he fights are just THAT powerful.

But they don't show that level of physical strength in battle. Strength of will, sure, but not physical.

Woah woah woah now. It's not a "moot point" because we were discussing the skill between the two of them. It's not like we're using "current" versions, as you've listed feats for Eragon where he was amped, same as Percy.

I haven't used any amped feats for Eragon, unless you count his transformation as an amp. But he received that in the middle of the second book, and the majority of his feats come post transformation. The Curse is definitely an amp, and while Percy did use his skill when he had it, he didn't have to worry about death since he was invulnerable (similar to your debate with the 08 on Wolverine in the Master Chief thread; interesting debate by the way).

Yes, he did. He used his aerokinesis and blitzed him, Hyperion was barely able to keep up and didn't get a chance to strike back. That's blitzing mate.

He never used aerokinesis, and he didn't blitz him. Here's the fight:

He propelled himself on a jet of water into the air, and used a tidal wave to hit Hyperion. Then they fought until Percy summoned his hurricane, which kept hitting Hyperion.

He's the Titan of Light, and he transformed into light and tried to blitz Percy, and Percy was able to react.

That would make him lightspeed.

Not once did he travel lightspeed, nor did Percy react to that speed. Percy instinctively raised his sword, he didn't consciously react.

And? Since when was this solely about current versions?

This isn't a battle between Percy and Eragon, we're just getting off-topic. And on this Off-topic discussion we're having, we never agreed to solely use current versions.

If you're gonna use Eragon where he's amped by Aren, Eldunari, etc., then I get to use Percy when he's amped by Curse of Achilles. Especially when we have no idea how much the Curse played a part on those feats. We know it amped him, but we don't know to what extent.

The Percy that Carter fought didn't have the Curse, so Percy wasn't physically amped at the time. That's why I'm using that Percy.

It is sorta off topic, isn't it XD. But it's definitely fun.

And I addressed the last part above.

In a fight where there was no powers, only using a sword...then it'd be a close one. I really don't know who would win.

But the statement that Eragon is faster and more skilled than Percy is...incorrect, IMO.

I guess we'll just agree to disagree then.

@jmarshmallow:

Haphazard? That Greek form was able to easily take down gods, Titans, and it allowed him to completely humiliate even the best of the Roman demigod fighters. And Romans are known for their fighting, but Percy's Greek Form allowed him to pretty much embarrass them.

I won't mention how those gods are mainly featless. and simply take that as a grain of salt. As for the Roman demigod fighters, it was clearly established in text that the reason Percy was mainly humiliating them was due to the fact that Romans fight in Large groups, often with a phalanx backing them up. Due to Percys one one one style, they were unorganized and thrown into chaos, the steeple of Percys greek combat. THAT is what I meant by haphazard.

And finally, where in the world was Percys skill when he encountered Golden boy?

And while all that is fine and good for the TIS Universe, we're on the battle forums right now mate.

Those rules don't apply here. If ya ain't got feats, ya ain't gonna win.

That wasn't Eragon using it, so we can't assume he can.

I don't meant to be a dead horse mate, but you already ARE speculating.

You're basically implying that every little piece of magic in TIS Universe is under a no-limits fallacy. And that just....well, it ain't gonna fly man!

If you can't prove he can do it, then he can't. Simple as that mate.

Let me break it down even further for you. Magic in TIS universe works by using the Ancient Language, either verbally or Mentally. What you say in the Ancient Language is then rendered through magic into the real world based on your intentions.

I.E-Saying Letta while thinking of a charging enemy, The charging enemy would be stopped by an unseen force(What Galbatorix did in my above scan)

The only limiting factor on this is the fact that to do something with magic Requires the same amount of energy it would take to do the task yourself. This energy is Basically your life force, if you where to cast a spell that required more energy than you have on hand, you die.

I.E-If one where to use the same spell "Letta" on a housed sized boulder as a human, the simple wording of the spell would kill him instantly as if he tried to physically he would die.. Where as if you did it while pulling energy from a Dragon, The boulder would stop instantly and you probably wouldn't notice the drain as a Dragon could physically stop the boulder easily.

That is where Eldunari, Aren, Gems, etc come into play. This is due to the fact that a body can only store so much energy in it self. As with the dragon, the stronger physically you are, the more you can accomplish with a single word. However, a Magician is capable of transferring Energy into Gems. such as the one son the Belt of Beloth the Wise, and in the Pommel of Brisngr,and yes, the gem in Aren. Eldunari are special in that they contain all of the Energy a Dragon would have in their Lifetime. This is why it's partially inappropriate to call Aren and the Eldunari and "amp" as they don't really affect his Abilities, only what he is capable of doing with said abilities.

I.E-he can light somebody on fire with no effort, but with the Eldunari and Aren, he could light an entire City on fire.

The only other limiting factor is ones knowledge with the Vocabulary in the ancient language. By wording your spells differently, you can change the drain of Energy, change the effects, Design it to work around wards,Weave enchantments, and over all if you can say it in the ancient language, you can do it with magic so long as you have the sufficient Energy. so of course, if you didn't knwo the words, you couldn't do the spell.

I.E-I could say "Brisngr" to create a flame to light a dark cave, but creating flame takes more energy than simply lighting a small light, so I could simply say "garjzla"(Hesitant on the spelling there) and create a small were-light that would float around, casting light on everything. but if i did not know the word for light, i could not use it and would be forced to use brisngr.

I.E if a mage in TIS has done something using magic(as the Ancient language, like our own is limited and has only so many words, almost all of which Eragon has learned, The only thing it takes to replicate is knowing the Effect and the words used. a skilled magician(such as Eragon) could simply replicate it as long as he knew the effect, simply by substituting his own words.

So when I show Galbatorix using a Spell and you say Eragon can not replicate it, you are wrong. He can replicate it, everything says he can. The rules say he can. It's not a no limit fallacy, it has limits, they simply not applied here due to Aren as Aren has Years of Broms energy in it. and Eragon has the energy of Saphira with him. the only limiting factor at this point is his vocabulary of the ancient language, which is basically not a limiting factor as he is very much fluent in the language...like REALLY fluent in it.

Eragon knows the Words(Practically mastered the language by the end of the book), he has the energy(Aren and Saphira)-hence HE CAN DO IT.

gain, all that is fine and good. However, I would need to SEE him actually USING those feats in a combat oriented sense for it to be valid here.

I could, I just didn't feel like dredging up feats. Will you suffice with summaries? Again, given the nature of Magic, feats aren't necessary.

Garjzla letta-"Light, stop"Eragon used it against the Lethrblaka in helgrind to blind it.

Jierda thierra kalfis!-Literally" break the calves of the opponent" Eragon used it in battle.

Letta-"Stop", Eragon has used it on Arrows, people, himself...etc.

Skolir-"Shield"-Eragon uses it in his rudimentary wards to protect him from blows, weapons, etc. and then can be used on the fly for the situation at hand.

Thrysta-"Thrust, Compress"-Used by Eragon to stop a mans heart in....Gilead?(Might of been Dras Leona.)

Adurna-"water" literally used to manipulate water by Eragon and Oromis

He could Fashion Wards using the words" Carter Kane may not touch me" and boom. Carter can't touch him so long as the wards are sustained by energy.

Hell, if this gets to the real point of no return(not likely), Eragon simply say "Weise Neiat" or "Be not" and converts A rock into pure energy, exploding it right in Carters face. On to your otehr post

The fact is that magic can block those Words of Death. They can be countered. And if anyone would have the magic to do it, it'd be Carter.

That's iffy, Words of death are kind of broken. I.E as i mentioned above he could simply say "Deyja" or "die". The only thing that has stopped it would be a ward fashioned with the words "Stop any spell using the word Deyja. But I don't like Deathwords, they ruing the fun.

And Eragon was amped by Eldunari, Aren, etc.

The point is, Percy's best feats are better than Eragon's best feat, amped or not.

If they're both amped, then Percy would stomp Eragon because of his hax, skill, versatility, etc.

Assuming we count Aren and the Eldunari as "amps"(which i explained why they really are not that much)

Then A "fully amped" Eragon would be EoS with ALL the Eldunari. and access to the Name of Names, which allows him to alter the Ancient language itself. He could literally warp and entire continent or simply convert all of the energy into physical force, Becoming a probable mountain buster. Percy has nothing on that.

Did you just contradict yourself lol?

He did, lol./

I don't know how you can equate all of that with defeating a giant who was LITERALLY CREATED TO DEFEAT POSEIDON.

• Percy was getting his ass beat by him until he gained Terminus help.
• Murtagh, Arya, could easily replicate the feat. Eragon casually

Not really, since most demigods are on that level of strength. Case in point: Annabeth was able to hold up the sky, as was Luke. The majority of people he fights are just THAT powerful.

sigh, please don't tell me you take the Sky feat as a Strength feat? LOL.

Woah woah woah now. It's not a "moot point" because we were discussing the skill between the two of them. It's not like we're using "current" versions, as you've listed feats for Eragon where he was amped, same as Percy.

One is a Physical amp(Achilles) the other just gives Eragon more bullets. The difference is, Eragons "amped" feats apply here, where as Percys do not.

Yes, he did. He used his aerokinesis and blitzed him, Hyperion was barely able to keep up and didn't get a chance to strike back. That's blitzing mate.

Yes, but not true blitzing as you are attempting to imply. If you hit a blind and Deaf superman a bunchy of times, whats it matter?

He's the Titan of Light, and he transformed into light and tried to blitz Percy, and Percy was able to react.

That would make him lightspeed.

Hyperion only emitted light. Never turned into it IIRC. Please stop the Wank. If Percy was Lightspeed, if Hyperion was light speed, There would be no battle of manhattan. we all know it.

In a fight where there was no powers, only using a sword...then it'd be a close one. I really don't know who would win.

But the statement that Eragon is faster and more skilled than Percy is...incorrect, IMO.

Eragon would win :)

Again, Eragon can cover 250 yards in two Quick leaps. Percy...has trouble scaling a wall.

Jmarshmallow

Jmarshmallow

@jmarshmallow:

Not really. Gods of Percy Jackson series = gods of myths, the book makes that very clear.

Give me one viable sword fighting feat from mythology, i'll wait. The gods in mythology weren't all powerful cause they can beat you down in hand to hand that defeated their entire purpose. They were the most powerful cause they could wave a hand and make you disappear.

So it's not haphazard, it's clearly a very effective style one on one, which is exactly the situation here.

It's using Chaos to disorient the enemy, effective, yes. but pointless against Eragons Way of knowing, designed to fight against that exact combat.

Eh, it was an off day. Everybody has them. But at the end of the day, Golden Boy retreated. So that's what matters.

Yeah, Sure "Off day"-more like what happens when Percy fights a real swordsman...(Is that bacon cooking..?)

And let me explain further for you.

All of that is GREAT. But if we never see him USING the spell, or at least showing us that he KNOWS how to, then it doesn't matter how magic works in TIS.

That right there is my point. The way Magic works int hat universe. He can literally Do anything that he can say in the ancient language. Its how it works. I can see your simply going to ignore the rules of the Magic itself, and fixate on actual feats(of which are not required).

It most definitely does matter how magic works in TIS as that is how it works everywhere. Magic in the TIS Is a sword, whoever knows how to put their hand around the handle can use it in any way they really want.

You don't realize what you are arguing. You are not arguing whether The Properties of Magic change when it moves into the battle forums, no that would have some sort of logic to it. What you my friend are arguing, is that(for comparison that will make sense to you) a Sword isn't as sharp in the hands of another individual.(no metaphorical crap either).

Yes, they are. When you're in the battle forum, feats are necessary. Simple as that.

Again, I would agree with you, if not for, again, the vary nature of TIS Magic.

I'm just saying that clearly words of death can be stopped by magic. And Carter has magic.

So it's possible.

Yeah, sure lol.

Heck yes he does. Fully amped Eragon vs. Fully amped Percy? I'll back Percy EVERY time.

...like....?

What? No he wasn't? He was kicking his butt, it's just that only a god and a demigod can take down a giant, they have to work together to get the killing blow.

Skill wise, he was whooping him. He just couldn't put him down for good.

Re-Read, yeah, he was doing aight.

That same giant almost killed Poseidon, lord of the seas, slayer of the mighty Typhon bane of Olympus.

Eragon would get CRUSHED.

LOL. even you can admit that's a little overboard buddy. Nothign would stop Eragon from simply Trappign him in a pocket deminsion, Disinigrating him and converting him to dust, and immediatly scattering him to the winds for eternity.

I take it as both a will, and a strength feat. Clearly it has to be a strength feat, as everybody is physically exhausted by the time their done. Literally about to crumble most of the time.

It's technically neither, actually a "Soul" strength feat. hence the "Crumble" They are literally about to be erased so to speak. also, that's much more logical than Percy and Annabeth being Quintilian Tonners as you are attempting to falsely claim.

Incorrect. If we count Eragon's, we're counting Percy's.

Different types of "amps", but sure, skew things in Percys favor, he still loses.

It matters a lot if YOU'RE the one using your powers to make him blind and deaf.

Again, something Eragon can do here...And no, it does not attribute to his Physical abilities, as you are still trying to claim.

"His body ignited in a column of light and heat. I looked away, but I was still blinded. Instinctively I raised Riptide—just in time. Hyperion's blade slammed against mine."

Hyperion turned into light, attempted to blitz Percy, BLINDED Percy (it goes to show that hitting a blind Superman isn't so easy after all, huh?), and Percy was still able to react to the blow instinctively.

That's a lightspeed feat. Simple as that.

I'm done here, you are very logical(Validly, not soundly), and a cool guy, but i can't sit here and let you claim that everybody post book 5 of the series is lightspeed. I'm so done it's not even funny. Save this-

Eragon has better agility than Percy, but Percy is still agile where it counts: in a fight.

Eragon being able to close 250 yards is during a fight with Arya. she is actually the one who closed that distance in two leaps, and Eragon even commented on how her Arms actually seemed to move quicker than her legs.

It's been fun, enjoy bliss.

Jmarshmallow

Eragon murderstomps

So you don't think Carter stands any chance at all?

@arcus: My chances getting superpowers are better

@jacthripper: Why do you think that?

@arcus: Carter is a teenage combat magician who happens to have some god-power backing him up, Eragon is a war veteran, the strongest single magic user in his story, and swordsmanship bad@ss. The fight would be over very fast, considering Eragons sword is purposefully designed to cut through enchantments of any kind. Carter wouldn't think of killing someone, while Eragon does it without thought. Even without direct death words or his sword, Eragon could punch through his head.

And yes, Eragon beats Percy too

@jacthripper: not saying Eragon doesn't win, but I think you might be underestimating Carter a little bit

By the end if the third book, Carter's a veteran in his own right. He's gone up against demons, monsters, gods, and the embodiment of Chaos itself. He's the Pharaoh, and the only reason he isn't the strongest magician in the world is because of age (it's been said repeatedly that Carter and Sadie are the strongest Kanes in centuries). Eragon's sword has been blocked by enchantments before- when the spell casters were summoning the shade. Carter's shield held up against Apophis's chaos magic, which is designed to weaken ma'at. Carter is capable of channeling Horus to improve his strength and speed, which can help even the stats. He also has very powerful magic unlike anything Eragon has faced before.

Don't get me wrong I can see both of them winning, but don't be so quick to dismiss Carter.

I also agree Eragon would beat Percy, but I think Carter is much better suited to fighting Eragon than Percy

@arcus: That enchantment wasn't affecting Eragon's blade, it was affecting Eragon himself. Carter's uses a different kind of magic, but it isn't that far from what Eragon knows, Sadie is more powerful in this type of magic. Biggest reason, Eragon can blitz and end the fight before Carter can cry for mommy. He's an unathletic kid fighting an inhumanly fast Rider, he'll get caught off guard because he hasn't fought anyone like Eragon.

@jacthripper:

I'm talking about the wards around the spell casters. Arya, Eragon, and Sapphira were trying to kill them, it took a combined effort to break through

Spells like his combat avatar, fist of Horus, transformation, etc.

Carter's not that slow, I'm not going to say he's as fast as Eragon, but especially with Horus's power he should be fast enough to hold his own. If I can I'll look at some speed feats other than the dagger feat since I think that one was already discussed

@arcus: They had Eragon pinned, then Arya came in and distracted long enough for Eragon to stab Durza. That was a rookie Eragon who didn't know much about magic.

@jacthripper:

No I'm talking about in Book 3, there were those 3 spell casters summoning a shade, it took Arya, Eragon, and Sapphira hitting repeatedly to beak their wards

@arcus: Did Eragon have Brisingr?

@jacthripper: IIRC he did

Yes, he did. But again, those were most likely around expert magicians given they were summoning a shade and were able to pin a dragon, Dragon rider and an Elf in mental combat.

@arcus: Mental combat is very different, and a whole different ballpark from wards. The only real resistance his sword has met was another enchanted blade.

@jacthripper: @funsiized:

From Brisingr:

"Together, Eragon, Saphira, and Arya advanced toward the magicians and struck at a separate one each. A metallic peal filled the room as Brisingr glanced aside before it reached its intended target, wrenching Eragon's shoulder. Likewise, Arya's sword rebounded off a ward, as did Saphira's right front paw. Her claws screeched against the stone floor...Attacking in turns, Eragon, Sapphira, and Arya cut, stabbed, and battered at the bearded spellcaster for nearly a minute. None of their blows touched the man. Then, at last, after only the slightest hint of resistance, Eragon felt something give way beneath Brisingr, and the sword continued on it's way and lopped off the spellcaster's head."

That was just one of the spellcasters, it took a combined effort to break their wards. Sapphira eventually killed the second one, and the third one summoned the shade. There doesn't seem to be any mental combat going on, the magicians are just protected by heavy wards while summoning the spirits. Just something to think about, obviously idk how their power relates to Carter, I would assume that Carter would be stronger but there's no proof for that.

Bump. Any new thoughts?

Those people were summoning a Shade. Obviously, they were high-tier magic users.

I would say Percy vs Eragon would be a better fight, but, unlike Carter, Percy doesn't have a counter for the Death-words or attack magic in general and I don't recall him having any real feats against TP. In pure hand-to-hand, no amps or super-weapons, in just a pure contest of skill, I'd say Percy wins.

As for this battle, Eragon is way more skilled than Carter in combat, even if he does't use his control of the Ancient Language. Despite what @jmarshmallow says, it does matter what a character is capable of doing. Lore DOES matter, it's just less credible than actual feats, especially when contradicted by said feats. Sure, making a ton of stuff up is a no-limits fallacy, but, within reason, it can be assumed certain things are possible through a certain combination of words or a specific application of a single word (Eragon has never been shown to pin people with the wind, to my knowledge, but based off of his feats with wind-magic, isn't is logical to assume he could?).

I don't put Carter on Percy's level in any way. Even the Combat Avatar's feats aren't much more impressive than Eragon's feats (blowing up the gate at Dras-Leona is at least as impressive, especially since he can sustain spells like that much longer than Carter can his avatar).

Obviously, mythology isn't 100% adhered to in Rick's stories because of the thing about the twins using special effects, but I think it's safe to say that, for the most part, the feats from myth are true of the gods.

@barrenthin: There's a lot right with your post, but a lot wrong as well.

Jmarshmallow

Such as? I need a good debate. I'm so bored.

Well alright, I guess I can oblige!

I would say Percy vs Eragon would be a better fight, but, unlike Carter, Percy doesn't have a counter for the Death-words or attack magic in general and I don't recall him having any real feats against TP. In pure hand-to-hand, no amps or super-weapons, in just a pure contest of skill, I'd say Percy wins.

This right here, for starters.

You're right on the pure hand-to-hand, no amps or super-weapons. I also agree that Percy would beat Eragon.

However, if we include ALL of their skills, and ALL of their amps, I'm confident Percy would win there as well.

First off, Percy is invulnerable. Second, he's much faster than Eragon. Third, as we agreed, he's more skilled. And fourth, he's got an equally versatile skillset.

So even amped, I would believe that Percy would win over Eragon, and handily as well. He just outclasses him in too many ways.

Now as for Carter vs Eragon...

As for this battle, Eragon is way more skilled than Carter in combat, even if he does't use his control of the Ancient Language.

I'm not sure about this either.

Yes, Eragon is a better H2H combatant. But with some of Carter's versatile magic, Divine Words, combat avatar, telekinesis, etc., I'd say he could match Eragon.

Again, I'm not sure about Carter vs Eragon. But it's definitely closer than Eragon vs percy.

Despite what @jmarshmallow says, it does matter what a character is capable of doing. Lore DOES matter, it's just less credible than actual feats, especially when contradicted by said feats. Sure, making a ton of stuff up is a no-limits fallacy, but, within reason, it can be assumed certain things are possible through a certain combination of words or a specific application of a single word (Eragon has never been shown to pin people with the wind, to my knowledge, but based off of his feats with wind-magic, isn't is logical to assume he could?).

Next, this.

You're a bit more reasonable here than the guy I was arguing against previously about this.

However, going off that logic, Carter has shown that he can speak Divine Words. And Sadie has shown that she can speak the MAJORITY of the Divine Words, if not all.

So, based off that, are we just going to assume that he can speak ALL the Divine Words, since his sister has shown that she can and he has shown that he can speak a couple? No.

We can only use the words that he's shown to be capable of using. Likewise, we can only assume that Eragon can do the things that he's been shown doing.

I don't put Carter on Percy's level in any way.

Again, here's another example of you being very right!

Even the Combat Avatar's feats aren't much more impressive than Eragon's feats (blowing up the gate at Dras-Leona is at least as impressive, especially since he can sustain spells like that much longer than Carter can his avatar).

Valid point, no argument here.

I'm saying that Carter and Eragon are equally matched, but Percy is both of their superiors. That was my main argument.

Obviously, mythology isn't 100% adhered to in Rick's stories because of the thing about the twins using special effects, but I think it's safe to say that, for the most part, the feats from myth are true of the gods.

Riordan has made it very clear that myth gods = Percy Jackson/Jason Grace/Kane Chronicles gods.

The Twins instance is just because he rationalizes them into modern day, but they're still the same beings.

Jmarshmallow

Yay! Intelligent debating with logical reasoning on the part of my opponent!

@jmarshmallow

I'm gonna go to bed, so if you respond, I'll post tomorrow.

While Percy's amps mostly put him above Eragon, I don't believe Achilles' curse would protect against the Death words.

I don't see why not! They protected him from Hades snapping his fingers and making him disappear (as gods and Titans in that book always threaten to do) in the Last Olympian, after Percy kicked his butt.

I also wouldn't say he's got quite as diverse a skill set, as most of what we've seen from him is water manipulation and sword combat, whereas Eragon has demonstrated a fairly extensive knowledge of the Ancient language. I have no idea how many words he's used because I haven't read the books in ages, though.

I'd have to disagree here as well.

Water Manipulation is such a broad and diverse power in and of itself, that it alone would match Eragon versatility-wise IMO.

But as if that wasn't enough, Percy has also demonstrated aerokinesis, geokinesis, cryokinesis, electrokinesis, toxikinesis, heat resistance, superhuman strength, arguably FTL reaction speeds, etc. He's very versatile!

I don't know how their magic would really work against each other, since countering magic in TIS requires knowing what your opponent will do and in the Kane Chronicles, you just throw up a shield, so I'll just take your word for it.

That's really all you can do in a battle like this.

I'm basing this more off of his training with Oromis and the amount of knowledge he's demonstrated, as well as how crafty he's been shown to be with the Language, but still, fair points.

I'm not saying he necessarily can't. I'm just saying that there should be a solid amount of evidence/logic to make it clear that it's very likely he can.

I'm no Eragon expert, I'll be the first to admit it! So as long as you can provide sensible reasoning besides "Well in the TIS Universe anyone can do anything just by speaking." then we're good! (You never made an argument like that, I was referring to the guy I was debating that issue with previously. That was basically his entire argument. You, on the other hand, have actually used reason and logic, so for that I thank you).

Thank you very much, on both points, for acknowledging that I was correct. I haven't seen much of that on the year or two I've been lurking on the Vine.

No problem mate! Honestly, you can't improve yourself or your skills if you're not open to opinions that differ from yours.

You've gotta give credit where credit is due!

For some reason, a lot of users on here don't fully get that...

Still not sure about Percy stopping the Death words,

This is the most possible option of Percy being put down by Eragon, but it's definitely debatable. I'm not really sure how Curse of Achilles and Death Words would mix.

or getting out of being pinned by wind,

Percy also has aerokinesis, as he is able to summon powerful hurricanes (powerful enough that they were able to knock around the Titan Hyperion, the most powerful Titan behind Kronos and arguably Atlas). So there's always that!

or if he'd survive getting struck by lightning (assuming he didn't just dodge the lightning, as he's shown to be capable of), but, very well.

Percy has tanked being struck by lightning on multiple occasions, such as during his fight with Thalia in the Titan's Curse. He basically shrugged it off like it was nothing. But yes, he could dodge it as well.

No argument here. That's pretty much what I said.

Oh I know, I was just reiterating your point.

Yay! Intelligent debating with logical reasoning on the part of my opponent!

Well thank you! Likewise!

It's always nice to have a fun, casual, logical debate with someone who knows what they're talking about.

Alright, good night!

Jmarshmallow

@barrenthin: @jmarshmallow: just a quick comment, Percy has no answer for telepathy or, arguably, the death words. Carter, however, has a possible answer for them, which is why I believe he's a better match for Eragon than Percy. Just a thought

Percy has shown to be able to resist telepathy, like when he resisted Aphrodite's charms, the empousai (vampire cheerleaders), etc.

And Death Words is negated by the Curse of Achilles IMO.

And I agree, Carter is a much better match for Eragon, because Percy would beat him soundly IMO, whereas Carter vs. Eragon is a good match.

Jmarshmallow