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#1 Edited by homicidalmaniac (6701 posts) - - Show Bio

No Prep

Morals Off

They don't know each other

Win by KO/Death/BFR

#2 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7174 posts) - - Show Bio

The one with armament haki.

#3 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio
#4 Posted by homicidalmaniac (6701 posts) - - Show Bio
#5 Edited by Mr_Ingenuity (7174 posts) - - Show Bio
#6 Posted by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (10277 posts) - - Show Bio

The One who could melt him just by being by him

#7 Posted by GhostRavage (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

The One who could melt him just by being by him

Uh? No one is melting no one... Aokiji stomps. He's indeed an expert in Haki given the fact how awfully beaten were Akainu and Aokiji in their fight in Punk Hazard... Not to mention, Enel didn't showed ANY high control over Haki besides precognition... He couldn't even hurt Luffy with punches and needed to recur to make hotter his staff in order to burn him... Enel may have one of the most powerful Devil Fruits in OP verse... But he's nowhere near high tier OP characters...

#8 Posted by No_Trolling (653 posts) - - Show Bio

Aokiji stomps pretty hard

#9 Edited by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

i say enel

#10 Edited by Marshall_Long (1870 posts) - - Show Bio

The one who can Freeze the Ocean.

#11 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

The one who can Bust an Island.

#12 Posted by GhostRavage (8359 posts) - - Show Bio
#13 Posted by xlab3000 (3130 posts) - - Show Bio

Aokiji

#14 Edited by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: not really.. i saw it, but it wasn't toward me. i didn't want to intrude.

but Enel has been stated to be at least Admiral level and have a bounty of over 500,000,000. that's excessively high. so by that we're going to assume if they met, they may be on equal terms. so here are a factors that may decide the fight.

Enel's superior speed.

Enel's df allows him to pickup electromagnetic waves in the air and made put Mantra on a whole different level. he could hear the thoughts and see the actions of all the people in skypia. his kenbunshoku haki is absurdly augmented by his df power.

Even without Busoshoku haki. You can harm logia users with a superior element, in a rock paper scissors kind of way. we've already seen,

water > crocodiles sand

rubber > enels lightning

magma > aces fire

the pure heat enel can generate + that fact that water conducts better than air, shows us that Enel > aokiji ice.

so that's why i think enel has upper hand

#15 Posted by GhostRavage (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@ghostravage: not really.. i saw it, but it wasn't toward me. i didn't want to intrude.

but Enel has been stated to be at least Admiral level and have a bounty of over 500,000,000. that's excessively high. so by that we're going to assume if they met, they may be on equal terms. so here are a factors that may decide the fight.

Enel's superior speed.

Enel's df allows him to pickup electromagnetic waves in the air and made put Mantra on a whole different level. he could hear the thoughts and see the actions of all the people in skypia. his kenbunshoku haki is absurdly augmented by his df power.

Even without Busoshoku haki. You can harm logia users with a superior element, in a rock paper scissors kind of way. we've already seen,

water > crocodiles sand

rubber > enels lightning

magma > aces fire

the pure heat enel can generate + that fact that water conducts better than air, shows us that Enel > aokiji ice.

so that's why i think enel has upper hand

When in the story it was stated the bounty of Enel, and if it was stated i suppose its because he's a ruthless mofo who killed a bunch of people, and created a lot of chaos in Skypia, something similar to when Kid arrived to Sabaodi, that it was explained it wasn't because of how of a threat he was to the Government but the fact he killed a lot of innocent people.

Logia can't harm Logia if they don't use Haki... That's one of OP verse basics... If we go by that Logic, Aokiji couldn't even stand the slightest chance against Akainu, and given the fact that supposedly uber heat Enel can generate didn't affect Luffy in the slightest besides heating the staff, makes me think its a fallacy.

"Enel superior speed" didn't work when Luffy made the Octopus move... Something that wasn't as fast as an Admiral can be... Given the fact, Admirals are masters on all the CP arts of combat, adding to that expertise in all Haki's besides Conqueror's Haki...

Going by feats, Enel gets stomped... Going Logically, Enel gets stomped... Going by who's cooler... hence the ability... Aokiji stomps. Enel has no way to win in my book. Even though his Devil Fruit can be considered a top 5 in the entire OP verse, standing next to Kizaru's DF and Portgas D. Ace DF... The versatility of Aokiji abilities outside of the usage of his devil fruit is beyond anything Enel has shown...

#16 Posted by homicidalmaniac (6701 posts) - - Show Bio

GhostRavage and Cooldes I never thought that I see you guys debate against each other.

#17 Posted by GhostRavage (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

The one who can Bust an Island.

Oh yeah... Aokiji changed the weather of an island permanently while fighting...

#18 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: Oda himself stated this.

sooo logia's can't be harmed without haki now? this must be a new thing because when i watched One Piece, Luffy defeated Crocodile without haki, Luffy defeated Enel without Haki, Ankainu defeated Ace without Haki. all because of having a Superior Element. Enel had to use the staff because Luffy's DF has the superior element. he couldn't harm him otherwise. he doesn't have that weakness in this fight.

i just told you how superior enel's Mantra is to anyone else's Kenbunshoku Haki.

If anything, going by feats enel wins. logically enel wins, and he's hotter.

enel can move as fast as lightning and can create temps as hot as lightning meaning,

"The temperature of lightning is five times hotter than the surface of the sun and has over 1 billion volts. This means, that if Enel can produce 200,000,000 volts, he can create temperatures of over 6,000°C"

enel is beyond most things in the opverse, i would put him =< kizaru

#19 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

The one who can Bust an Island.

Oh yeah... Aokiji changed the weather of an island permanently while fighting...

You mean HALF of an island that is still there...

weather change of half an island =/= Destroying an island. Permanently...

#20 Edited by Dredeuced (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@ghostravage: Oda himself stated this.

sooo logia's can't be harmed without haki now? this must be a new thing because when i watched One Piece, Luffy defeated Crocodile without haki, Luffy defeated Enel without Haki, Ankainu defeated Ace without Haki. all because of having a Superior Element. Enel had to use the staff because Luffy's DF has the superior element. he couldn't harm him otherwise. he doesn't have that weakness in this fight.

i just told you how superior enel's Mantra is to anyone else's Kenbunshoku Haki.

If anything, going by feats enel wins. logically enel wins, and he's hotter.

enel can move as fast as lightning and can create temps as hot as lightning meaning,

"The temperature of lightning is five times hotter than the surface of the sun and has over 1 billion volts. This means, that if Enel can produce 200,000,000 volts, he can create temperatures of over 6,000°C"

enel is beyond most things in the opverse, i would put him =< kizaru

I mean, Enel's powers didn't work on Luffy because Rubber is not a conductor of electricity.

Pure ice is also not a conductor of electricity, if you really, really want to play the elements game.

Enel's main problem is he wasn't good enough to physically outmatch Luffy before Luffy ever even learned Gear 1. If current Luffy fought Enel he'd oneshot him pretty effortlessly considering how much he's grown. Akainu should massively outstat Enel in everything but straight movement speed and could kill Enel with Haki quite reasonably (all vice admirals and higher have Haki).

#21 Posted by New_World_Order (12507 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm thinking Enel.

#22 Posted by GhostRavage (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@ghostravage: Oda himself stated this.

sooo logia's can't be harmed without haki now? this must be a new thing because when i watched One Piece, Luffy defeated Crocodile without haki, Luffy defeated Enel without Haki, Ankainu defeated Ace without Haki. all because of having a Superior Element. Enel had to use the staff because Luffy's DF has the superior element. he couldn't harm him otherwise. he doesn't have that weakness in this fight.

i just told you how superior enel's Mantra is to anyone else's Kenbunshoku Haki.

If anything, going by feats enel wins. logically enel wins, and he's hotter.

enel can move as fast as lightning and can create temps as hot as lightning meaning,

"The temperature of lightning is five times hotter than the surface of the sun and has over 1 billion volts. This means, that if Enel can produce 200,000,000 volts, he can create temperatures of over 6,000°C"

enel is beyond most things in the opverse, i would put him =< kizaru

I'll will reform my scenario again... If we go by Superior Element... Then Aokiji couldn't even fight Akainu in the first place, it would have been the most effortlessly stomp ever seen in history, yet it was stated multiple times how evenly matched they were... Going by this, Akainu having a superior element than Ace's makes NO sense... Ice=/=Magma?, Ice=Magma?... Apparently... Magma>Fire???? Yep... that's a total mindf*ck over there...

Enel's Mantra works in a similar way as Haki, it was explained by Rayleigh when Luffy started his training. Luffy reminded his fight with Enel when Rayleigh was talking about it... Nuff said. You didn't tell me anything that suggests Mantra is above Haki when Haki has WAY better feats to put it above Mantra. While Mantra couldn't stop the Octopus move, Luffy was dodging hundreds and hundreds of water bullets thrown at him effortlessly, dodge 3 pacifista's beams just by moving his neck effortlessly, but Mantra fails to avoid some punches... Yep... Its WAY above Haki Obviously!

If going by feats... Enel gets stomped given the fact he just fought once and lost incredibly stupid.

If going logically, Aokiji stomps given the fact i explained how ridiculously versatile Aokiji is outside of DF usage...

Hotter? He has 2 horrible long ears... At least Aokiji aspires to have an Afro Samurai-like afro one day. (Lol)...

Enel can't move that fast in combat given the fact Luffy managed to tag him countless times with the Octopus move, something that shouldn't tag him... in like... ever... if he moves that fast.

Enel gets stomped by a Luffy who wasn't 1/1000000 strong as he is today. Why?, because of Superior Element? Yeah, that strengthen my point on how useless his DF would be for someone who dominates Haki as an expert... Enel>Kizaru????? Hahahaha HAhahaha! Just no... Please... Don't... Kizaru moves as fast as light and has proven to do so in combat... something Enel failed to do... Kizaru with his finger has city busting beams... His... Finger... Let alone his light kick... Kizaru is a Haki expert as well... And can stalemate Rayleigh... Nothing suggests to even remotely think Enel> Kizaru when everything points out Kizaru>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Luffy>Enel.

@cooldes said:

@ghostravage said:

@cooldes said:

The one who can Bust an Island.

Oh yeah... Aokiji changed the weather of an island permanently while fighting...

You mean HALF of an island that is still there...

weather change of half an island =/= Destroying an island. Permanently...

I can bust an island if i bomb it enough... It won't change the weather while Aokiji and Akainu's fight had some low reality warping results... Permanently... so its true... weather change of half an island =/= Destroying an island. Permanently... weather change permanently> destroying an island in my book.

#23 Edited by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage:

Ankainu is definitely > aokiji in that they were even on fighting skill, but he won due to his superior element. Nothing in One piece makes sense... it's magical fruit, we just have to deal with it.

Lol you didn't understand me, Mantra IS Kenbonshoku Haki, But Enel's is Enhanced because of his Devil Fruit. It allows him to pick up Electromagnetic waves in the air, And is just Absurd. It allowed him to literally hear the thoughts and know the actions of everyone throughout all of skypia. So Enel's "Mantra" is > Anyone elses Haki. Mantra literally was just what the skypians called observational haki, but enels df makes his spiritual awareness ridiculously better.

By feats, Enel's only lowshowing is loosing by A prime example of PIS. and he still dominated the fight, even though luffy had superior element.

Going logically, Enel still wins due to his Mantra's absurdity levels, and his Speed and Heating advantage.

Enel is hotter, look at those ubercool drums on his back, everyone else in skypia has wings, bit enel said "NO, imma be a trend setter.."

WHAT i NEVER said Enel > Kizaru. i would never make such a statement in my life. i said Enel is =< kizaru at best.

and no. he froze half the island and that's while fighting at full power, enel destroyed an island completely and with ease. Permanent Busting of island > Permanent weather change of HALF island in my Novel.

#24 Edited by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac: Why not? do we usually agree on stuff or something? if we do i never really noticed xD

#25 Posted by homicidalmaniac (6701 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes: If it a One Piece debate then usually yes.

#26 Edited by Dredeuced (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@ghostravage:

Ankainu is definitely > aokiji in that they were even on fighting skill, but he won due to his superior element. Nothing in One piece makes sense... it's magical fruit, we just have to deal with it.

Lol you didn't understand me, Mantra IS Kenbonshoku Haki, But Enel's is Enhanced because of his Devil Fruit. It allows him to pick up Electromagnetic waves in the air, And is just Absurd. It allowed him to literally hear the thoughts and know the actions of everyone throughout all of skypia. So Enel's "Mantra" is > Anyone elses Haki. Mantra literally was just what the skypians called observational haki, but enels df makes his spiritual awareness ridiculously better.

By feats, Enel's only lowshowing is loosing by A prime example of PIS. and he still dominated the fight, even though luffy had superior element.

Going logically, Enel still wins due to his Mantra's absurdity levels, and his Speed and Heating advantage.

Enel is hotter, look at those ubercool drums on his back, everyone else in skypia has wings, bit enel said "NO, imma be a trend setter.."

WHAT i NEVER said Enel > Kizaru. i would never make such a statement in my life. i said Enel is =< kizaru at best.

and no. he froze half the island and that's while fighting at full power, enel destroyed an island completely and with ease. Permanent Busting of island > Permanent weather change of HALF island in my Novel.

Enel doesn't have a speed advantage, though. His combat speed was not significantly greater than Sub-Gear 1 Luffy, and his reaction time is clearly inferior to Aokiji's (Luffy tagged him plenty). Aokiji is specifically leagues above that level of combat speed and could insta KO Enel with Haki. You could literally remove Aokiji's devil fruit from him and he should still win based on stats and haki alone, going by how Enel's fight with Luffy went. Elemental superiority, which isn't even necessarily true (as Enel can't shock things that don't conduct electricity and ice does not conduct electricity), is superfluous because Admirals have superior combat speed and an in built way to hit him with or without elemental powers.

#27 Edited by D3athstroke (3909 posts) - - Show Bio

Aokiji stomps Enel.
He is insanely faster, stronger and smarter has much better control over his devil fruit and much better haki mastery.
He can probably blitz and kill enel with simple punch.

#28 Posted by Mortein (2717 posts) - - Show Bio

Aokiji wins

He could probably win even without using his DF powers.

#29 Posted by BlackWind (5518 posts) - - Show Bio

Lazy Justuce will win the day here. Aokiji would kick Enel's teeth in and tell him, "Ni*** you ain't no Eminem." Enel is not at the level of an Admiral. Enel can't even touch Aokiji without him reforming. Aokiji on the other hand has Armament Haki. And Enel was feeling hits from post Alabasta characters. Aokiji manhandled the entire Straw Hat crew. Also, Enel needs the Maxim and prep to island bust. Not to mention the island he destroyed was more like town sized.

#30 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys are forgetting Enel is God! he'll hear you guys badmouthing him and KILL US ALL!!

#31 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: @dredeuced: @dredeuced

Dude!! the Enel Luffy Fight was PIS incarnate!

When you are God, you don't worry about kids in straw hats. But what?!? He's made of this Unknown materal called RuBbEr?!?TF?!? and none of my attacks work on him? so let me just dominate him with my staff x)

btw Pregear2nd luffy wasn't slow! he was a intercepting bullets (saving zorro) and tagging bullet timers(kurro) in the east blue saga!

#32 Posted by SpideyPresence (1906 posts) - - Show Bio

Enel fighting on the same level as an ex admiral... what?

#33 Edited by GhostRavage (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@ghostravage:

Ankainu is definitely > aokiji in that they were even on fighting skill, but he won due to his superior element. Nothing in One piece makes sense... it's magical fruit, we just have to deal with it.

Lol you didn't understand me, Mantra IS Kenbonshoku Haki, But Enel's is Enhanced because of his Devil Fruit. It allows him to pick up Electromagnetic waves in the air, And is just Absurd. It allowed him to literally hear the thoughts and know the actions of everyone throughout all of skypia. So Enel's "Mantra" is > Anyone elses Haki. Mantra literally was just what the skypians called observational haki, but enels df makes his spiritual awareness ridiculously better.

By feats, Enel's only lowshowing is loosing by A prime example of PIS. and he still dominated the fight, even though luffy had superior element.

Going logically, Enel still wins due to his Mantra's absurdity levels, and his Speed and Heating advantage.

Enel is hotter, look at those ubercool drums on his back, everyone else in skypia has wings, bit enel said "NO, imma be a trend setter.."

WHAT i NEVER said Enel > Kizaru. i would never make such a statement in my life. i said Enel is =< kizaru at best.

and no. he froze half the island and that's while fighting at full power, enel destroyed an island completely and with ease. Permanent Busting of island > Permanent weather change of HALF island in my Novel.

  • First, never was stated Aokiji lost because Akainu had a superior element... People said they were evenly matched... Now you're speculating, not good.
  • Second, so what? He still got hit by the octopus move plenty of times... That didn't work so absurdly well as you're trying to point out, while observational Haki has WAY better feats of dodging stuff, that argument is blunt. Skypians never mentioned the word "Haki" in the entire story arc.
  • Third, he didn't dominate the fight, and he even forgot in the middle of the fight Luffy was immune to his attacks, so everything points to be because of CIS, nonetheless, he truly never showed superior skill to Luffy rather than trying to bust him with useless electric beams... Luffy with the octupus move proved he can be unpredictable and somehow a fighting genius, something like Goku.
  • Fourth, you really haven't prove Enel's Mantra will help him in this fight when he couldn't beat a very weak Luffy in comparison to the actual, not to mention Aokiji is still way above current Luffy. Why someone who can move that fast will get hit by a punch... a punch from distance... with the "uber powerful" mantra? Nah... Enel doesn't have the skillz to put down the ex-admiral.
  • Enel will never be on the same tier as an Admiral... Admirals are way to versatile and trained not to mentioned even more experienced with their DF's to buststomp whatever Enel will Dish...
@mortein said:

Aokiji wins

He could WOULD probably win STOMP even without using his DF powers.

And let me fix that...

btw Pregear2nd luffy wasn't slow! he was a intercepting bullets (saving zorro) and tagging bullet timers(kurro) in the east blue saga!

This also strengthen my point on how literally slow Enel is in comparison to this uber boost he's receiving from you.

#34 Edited by BlackWind (5518 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, Aokiji fought for ten days straight with Akainu. His stamina is immense. Even if Akainu had an elemental advantage, the fact that the fight went on for so long means they were more or less even. Aokiji has this in the bag.

#35 Edited by Dredeuced (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@dredeuced: @dredeuced: @dredeuced

Dude!! the Enel Luffy Fight was PIS incarnate!

When you are God, you don't worry about kids in straw hats. But what?!? He's made of this Unknown materal called RuBbEr?!?TF?!? and none of my attacks work on him? so let me just dominate him with my staff x)

btw Pregear2nd luffy wasn't slow! he was a intercepting bullets (saving zorro) and tagging bullet timers(kurro) in the east blue saga!

I didn't say he was slow. He was slow compared to Aokiji. Enel would also be slow compared to Aokiji.

Just because Enel called himself a god and used his power to force others to call him god does not make him god. You're overhyping a character who was defeated by a very weak incarnation of the strawhat crew, no ifs or buts about it. If he were as fast and as strong as an admiral then he could've just KO'd Luffy with a smack to the head rather effortlessly.

#36 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: But he isn't slow. Speed of lightning isn't slow. Heat of Lightning > surface of sun > Aokiji Ice.

Enel didn't call himself God. He WAS God. In the world of One Piece, the title of God is given to the leader of skypia. Remember Ganfall the Skyknight?he was God before enel and is currently again.

He was defeated by PIS and WIS. he was over confident and no one on sky island knew of Rubber. Remember Usopp selling a bunch of rubber bands and buying dials with the money? Rubber was a An unknown Element to enel that was also Superior to his. in the world of one piece, The superior element always wins. Magma>Fire. Rubber>Lightning. Water>Sand. Fire>Smoke. that's just how it is. Another reason enel lost was because he continuously used lighting on luffy, even though it doesn't effect him. All villians do the whole "What...? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!" thing when the hero finds his way around the villain's superiority.

#37 Edited by Dredeuced (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@dredeuced: But he isn't slow. Speed of lightning isn't slow. Heat of Lightning > surface of sun > Aokiji Ice.

Enel didn't call himself God. He WAS God. In the world of One Piece, the title of God is given to the leader of skypia. Remember Ganfall the Skyknight?he was God before enel and is currently again.

He was defeated by PIS and WIS. he was over confident and no one on sky island knew of Rubber. Remember Usopp selling a bunch of rubber bands and buying dials with the money? Rubber was a An unknown Element to enel that was also Superior to his. in the world of one piece, The superior element always wins. Magma>Fire. Rubber>Lightning. Water>Sand. Fire>Smoke. that's just how it is. Another reason enel lost was because he continuously used lighting on luffy, even though it doesn't effect him. All villians do the whole "What...? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!" thing when the hero finds his way around the villain's superiority.

You clearly don't understand the difference between combat speed and travel speed. IF he was actually as fast as lightning and had the reaction time to match then Luffy would've never tagged him. His operative speed is significantly slower than lightning. It's like how Kizaru was stopped by a guy with a gun -- if you really think Kizaru has lightspeed combatspeed then a gun shouldn't ever have stopped him. The speed your devil fruit allows you to go does not mean someone else isn't faster.

"God" isn't a title. You're using the word to hype up his strength. There are hundreds of people in One Piece who would be God of Skypiea if they showed up and knocked Enel off his perch. It wouldn't be hard because he's not that powerful compared to the heavy hitters of one piece. Stop capitalizing the word god like it's some big deal if you're just talking about the irrelevant skypeia title. The fact that Ganfall was "God" proves how irrelevant it is because he's weak as hell.

A superior element doesn't mean anything. All logias are superior to people without logias but Caribou was oneshotted by that lion turtle guy because he was a better fight with Haki.

The REASON Rubber > Lightning was because Rubber does not conduct electricity. If enel were easily capable of producing 6,000 degree heat then Luffy would've been instantly vaporized. The thing about pure Ice? It doesn't conduct electricity either. By your own logic Ice > Lightning for the same reason Rubber > Lightning.

Enel also didn't continually use lightning on Luffy. As soon as he did the enel face he started fighting him through other means.

There's absolutely no reason to believe Lightning > Ice in an elemental superiority battle. The Heat he produces was useless against Luffy because Rubber isn't a conductor and the same would be true for Aokiji.

And none of it even matters because Aokiji could easily blitz Luffy faster than Enel ever could, indicating massively superior combat speed.

#38 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: thanks to the bulleted points, it makes it way easier to reply, but i'm on my phone so unfortunately i can't do you the same service D:

1. I'm not speculating really. Ankainu won the fight, meaning he's superior right? But it WAS stated they were on equal levels right? So if there figgting ability and skill are equal, the only other factor is their DF powers which they utilized greatly in their fight. this has to mean Magma > Ice, which in reality is true.

2. PIS and CIS. pis and cis everywhere. i explained it to dreduced right above here ^ the luffy enel fight was really just the pis of "writer/plot needed luffy win" without luffy being a rubber man, if he had his exact strength and speed he had during the skypia. arc, he would've gotten demolished.

3. he totally was dominating the fight with his staff and Mantra. luffy only won because of Pis and Cis of enel's overconfidence. he's god. he doesn't need to worry about kids in straw hats.

4. When we first learned what haki was, luffy thought back to Enel. It's been stated. Skypia's Mantra, IS Kenbunshoku Haki. Mantra is just what they called it. they're the SAME THING, just different names in different places. like here we call soda, soda, but in other places it's called "pop". I'm not saying Mantra > Haki. i'm saying mantra IS Haki, so therefore Mantra = Haki. But Enel's Observational Haki, or his "Mantra" is > Everyone elses, because as i'll say again, His Devil Fruit augments it to absurd levels. It made him Omniscient in Skypia, because his raised his spiritual awareness to a point where he could hear all the THOUGHTS and know all the ACTIONS of people in skypia. He had the title of God(Just a title given to the leader of skypia), AND lived up to it.

4.The Only bounty that is at 500,000,000(that i can think of) is the highest ever recorded bounty of Fire Fist Ace. Oda stated that Enel's bounty, if he wers a pirate would be 500,000,000+. We have have to assume that his excessively high bounty is a tell to how ridiculous his power is. without luffy's rubber man pis, enel is a being of just Superfluous power and ability. I believe he is At or > Admiral level.

Also speed and powe advantage + superior DF really guarantees hime this victory. we've never seen any logia user win against a superior Element, unless you want to disagree with an example? but for now here are some of mine.

water > croc sand

rubber > lightning

fire > smoke

magma > fire

magma > ice

and please stop using the luffy fight to lowball enel, when he manhandled the rest if the strawhat crew + Ganfall + shandorians + skypians.

#39 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghostravage: @dredeuced: guys this two on one thing isn't cool...

anyway, dreduced, please stop using the luffy fight to downplay Enel. especially when he was Tossing around The rest of the strawhat crew + Ganfall the skyknight(my favorite OP char, and i don't like you saying he's a joke. he's a noble warrior and protector of his people. A TRUE God[of skypia].) + the shandorians (with bazookas) + the Skypians. lets try and leave pis out of this fight and go by ability.

hey D: GANFALL'S NOT WEAK!! :(

so you don't remember Enel using his staff to burn the Sh*t out of luffy? he can generate a heap of heat and he will. you're not going to tell me that Heat of lighting isn't superior to Ice because it is.

Enel's speed is WAY beyond Aokiji's. Alot of people in the OP community do believe that as a logia with full control over a certain element and having the ability to become that element, that Kizaru can move at lightspeed and that enel moves at Lightning fast speeds. Ice on the other hand isn't very fast...

#40 Posted by Funsiized (3585 posts) - - Show Bio

HAHAHA LOL no. just no.

It took Akainu 10 days to put Aokiji down=Endurance Victory

Aokiji is more skilled with his Devil Fruit in the sense that he appears to use it more often and in effective ways=Ability advantage

Aokiji is Speculatively Leagues faster than Pre Time skip G2 Luffy, Slow Luffy was able to perceive Enel=Speed advantage.

Enel has More fire power directly, but Aokiji Matched Ace who most def busted and island= Strength Even.

Precog Haki=Mantra, but Aokiji has again, shown to Have at least Trained his Haki, and Worked with it, but doesn't rely on it. = Sense advantage

Ace's Fire Couldn't Melt Aokiji's Ice, Nor could Akainu's Magma, to think Enel can do it is Silly.

Armament Haki...Yeah..Enel doesn't even have this soo..

Enel may be faster, Per se, but his reactions Are comical Sh**.

So. To conclude- Aokiji, Has the advantage in near every category. He takes this fairly easily.

#41 Posted by Dredeuced (5325 posts) - - Show Bio

@cooldes said:

@ghostravage: @dredeuced: guys this two on one thing isn't cool...

anyway, dreduced, please stop using the luffy fight to downplay Enel. especially when he was Tossing around The rest of the strawhat crew + Ganfall the skyknight(my favorite OP char, and i don't like you saying he's a joke. he's a noble warrior and protector of his people. A TRUE God[of skypia].) + the shandorians (with bazookas) + the Skypians. lets try and leave pis out of this fight and go by ability.

hey D: GANFALL'S NOT WEAK!! :(

so you don't remember Enel using his staff to burn the Sh*t out of luffy? he can generate a heap of heat and he will. you're not going to tell me that Heat of lighting isn't superior to Ice because it is.

Enel's speed is WAY beyond Aokiji's. Alot of people in the OP community do believe that as a logia with full control over a certain element and having the ability to become that element, that Kizaru can move at lightspeed and that enel moves at Lightning fast speeds. Ice on the other hand isn't very fast...

Kizaru clearly can't move/react at lightspeed because Ben Beckman stopped him in his tracks with just a gun. Unless Beckman's gun fires FTL bullets, then it's purely fanwanking over his fruit.

Ganfall is very weak. Gear Luffy would oneshot him. Just like he'd oneshot Enel. This is not an argument about how good of a character he is, this is an argumanet about powers and abilities.

I do remember Enel burning Luffy! You said 6,000 degrees. Do you know how hot 6,000 degrees is? If he made anything 6,000 degrees Luffy would've literally been turned to vapor. The molecular bonds that made up his body would disintegrate. Mildly heating up his staff hot enough to burn someone, and not even in a super significant way, is not even in the realm of countering Aokiji. The guy produces enough negative temperatures to freeze an entire ocean. He instantly freezes two tidal waves that are bigger than the entirety of Marineford. If Enel could EVEN heat something as big as his staff up to 6,000 degrees (no reason to think he can, but whatever) then Aokiji wouldn't even be phased because he can produce far more cold than that.

Enel's speed is crap. He can move through metal really fast but he literally was not fast enough to deal with Luffy effectively. This is not PIS, it is not a low showing. It is his one major fight in the entire freaking series. Luffy, before he ever learned his gears, could consistently tag him. There's no other showings that indicate he's so fast that Admirals, guys who can blitz Luffy even AFTER he learned his gear abilities, wouldn't be able to do the same to Enel.

Let me put it this way. Do you think Aokiji is as slow as ice because his power is the ice ice fruit? Do you think Akainu is as slow as lava? I've already pointed out how Kizaru CLEARLY isn't as fast as light, atleast not in combat/reaction speed (he can bounce around mirrors at lightspeed, but he has to reform his body to fight and was parried/blocked by Raleigh, who is not an FTL character). if Enel desolidifies himself and turns into pure lightning and moves through some metal or something then he can move as fast as lightning, sure, but this is not combat speed. It is travel speed.

Also it's not "two on one." I'm not collaborating with ghostravage to pick on you. I'm point out that your arguments are completely bunk.

also, Enel's Logia isn't Heat. One of the byproducts of his power creates heat, but as you have consistently ignored, his power does not harm people whose element does not conduct electricity, like Luffy's rubber. Ice does not conduct electricity. Even IF the fight were 100% decided by who has the superior element, there's no indication that Enel's is in a relationship of superiority to Aokiji's. The bigger problem is that Aokiji is a better fighter who has better combat speed (geared luffy was slow to him, normal luffy without gears was fast enough to tag enel frequently) and, regardless of devil fruits, could hit Enel with Haki. You could literally take away Aokiji's devil fruit entirely, right now, and he'd still beat Enel.

#42 Edited by GhostRavage (8359 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: He can move at the speed of light when using mirrors. Stalemating the second in command of Gold. D Roger's crew is not a low show, and given the fact Ben Beckman is one of Shank's high tier crew Members, its reasonable he manages to do certain things. Nonetheless, as Kizaru moving at the speed of light in that occasion? Or just floating around like 90% of the time...?

@cooldes said:

@dredeuced: But he isn't slow. Speed of lightning isn't slow. Heat of Lightning > surface of sun > Aokiji Ice.

Enel didn't call himself God. He WAS God. In the world of One Piece, the title of God is given to the leader of skypia. Remember Ganfall the Skyknight?he was God before enel and is currently again.

He was defeated by PIS and WIS. he was over confident and no one on sky island knew of Rubber. Remember Usopp selling a bunch of rubber bands and buying dials with the money? Rubber was a An unknown Element to enel that was also Superior to his. in the world of one piece, The superior element always wins. Magma>Fire. Rubber>Lightning. Water>Sand. Fire>Smoke. that's just how it is. Another reason enel lost was because he continuously used lighting on luffy, even though it doesn't effect him. All villians do the whole "What...? IMPOSSIBLE!!!!" thing when the hero finds his way around the villain's superiority.

  • First, Enel is not GOD... If there's a god in OP verse that should be Gold D. Roger, the Pirate King, the one unbeatable... The one who stalemate White Beard at his peak... The one who conquered the 5 seas... The one who began a new era... The one who got the One Piece... The one who is mentioned all over the story when Luffy makes something uber ridiculously powerful, like talking to Sea Kings, Conqueror's haki, even the straw hat once belonged to Gold D. Roger. And nothing and i mean NOTHING suggests he had DF's powers, but inner power and uber ridiculous Haki control... Same as Shanks... Same as Luffy's grandfather... Same as Sengoku(Even though he has a DF)... Enel is NOWHERE NEAR anybody on this tier... Let's stop the overhyping for Christ's sake...
  • Yeah... I call bullsh*t on that... It was stated Logia>Paramecia>Zoan multiple times in OP, however, there's a bunch of Paramecia and Zoan who stomps effortlessly on Logia users... So that Superior Element always wins is not something reliable...
  • That reason is enough to say how stupidly below is Enel in comparison to the Admirals... or anyone near that tier...
@cooldes said:

@ghostravage: thanks to the bulleted points, it makes it way easier to reply, but i'm on my phone so unfortunately i can't do you the same service D:

1. I'm not speculating really. Ankainu won the fight, meaning he's superior right? But it WAS stated they were on equal levels right? So if there figgting ability and skill are equal, the only other factor is their DF powers which they utilized greatly in their fight. this has to mean Magma > Ice, which in reality is true.

2. PIS and CIS. pis and cis everywhere. i explained it to dreduced right above here ^ the luffy enel fight was really just the pis of "writer/plot needed luffy win" without luffy being a rubber man, if he had his exact strength and speed he had during the skypia. arc, he would've gotten demolished.

3. he totally was dominating the fight with his staff and Mantra. luffy only won because of Pis and Cis of enel's overconfidence. he's god. he doesn't need to worry about kids in straw hats.

4. When we first learned what haki was, luffy thought back to Enel. It's been stated. Skypia's Mantra, IS Kenbunshoku Haki. Mantra is just what they called it. they're the SAME THING, just different names in different places. like here we call soda, soda, but in other places it's called "pop". I'm not saying Mantra > Haki. i'm saying mantra IS Haki, so therefore Mantra = Haki. But Enel's Observational Haki, or his "Mantra" is > Everyone elses, because as i'll say again, His Devil Fruit augments it to absurd levels. It made him Omniscient in Skypia, because his raised his spiritual awareness to a point where he could hear all the THOUGHTS and know all the ACTIONS of people in skypia. He had the title of God(Just a title given to the leader of skypia), AND lived up to it.

4.The Only bounty that is at 500,000,000(that i can think of) is the highest ever recorded bounty of Fire Fist Ace. Oda stated that Enel's bounty, if he wers a pirate would be 500,000,000+. We have have to assume that his excessively high bounty is a tell to how ridiculous his power is. without luffy's rubber man pis, enel is a being of just Superfluous power and ability. I believe he is At or > Admiral level.

Also speed and powe advantage + superior DF really guarantees hime this victory. we've never seen any logia user win against a superior Element, unless you want to disagree with an example? but for now here are some of mine.

water > croc sand

rubber > lightning

fire > smoke

magma > fire

magma > ice

and please stop using the luffy fight to lowball enel, when he manhandled the rest if the strawhat crew + Ganfall + shandorians + skypians.

  • He wasn't "THAT" superior... Maybe the odds of the fight went on his side... People all over the place who knew about that fight told Luffy they were evenly matched... For people who can use Haki on their level, DF's should mean nothing... Let's be real, it was stated countless times Haki> Any DF... And given the fact Admiral's... by title... should have Haki expertise at max.
  • If Enel would have that speed you're mentioning, that Mantra you're mentioning, that overrated heat properties you're mentioning, that almighty superiority you're claiming... A rubber kid with a straw hat wouldn't be alive atm... Let's be real... Enel is a chump.
  • So what you can feel people all over the place, it didn't help him dodging Luffy's attacks or not getting beaten so stupidly... Again, overhyping his abilities... Not to mention, Observational Haki is not the Haki that let's you feel entities... You're mixing 2 different types of Haki. Nonetheless, Observational Haki without that uber amp you're mentioning has WAY better shows than that supposed superior Mantra Enel has.
  • The guy Luffy's fighting right now, the one who fought Garp and almost died, the guy who can crack islands with headbutts has exactly that bounty... Luffy and Jinbe have 400,000,000 bounties, Trafalgar Law has a 480,000,000 bounty... There's a bunch of bounties that are equal or slightly below that Bounty yet are WAY above Enel and others...God dammit, what can you say about Sichibukais? They all have their bounty frozen... For example Mihawk... He has a bounty of 280,000,000 berries... A guy who could stalemate Shanks, one of the Yonkou, at his peak... Doflamingo, 380,000,000 berries... A guy which has proven to be a REAL threat with Haki... So the whole bounty system is broken... I already delivered this argument to you before...
  • For guys who are incredibly powerful with Haki, DF does not matter... Croc didn't have haki... Portgas didn't show Haki... Smoker didn't show Haki until now... Akainu has powerful Haki by default as well as Aokiji... So don't bring that super unreliable "Superior Element" system. Is already well known Haki>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any fruit.
#43 Edited by Mortein (2717 posts) - - Show Bio

-Ace's bounty was 550 000 000

-Mihawk's ex bounty is unknown

-Chinjao had/has a bounty above 500 000 000

-Jimbei has a bounty above 400 000 000

#44 Edited by BobSaysHi25 (173 posts) - - Show Bio

Aokiji stomps Enel can't move himself at the speed of lightning only his attacks

#45 Edited by Ostyo (6708 posts) - - Show Bio

Tbat whole Enel's bounty would be 500,000,000 means nothing. Your bounty isn't atrue test of your strength but how much you're a terror on the general public in the Navy's eyes.

#47 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@dredeuced: @ghostravage: Yeah so guys, i wrote a bunch of stuff, basically i. replied to ALL of your points, and as i was getting close to finishing, my phone died. i kinda don't want to rewrite all that, so you win.

#48 Posted by homicidalmaniac (6701 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump

#49 Posted by solon (421 posts) - - Show Bio

Aokiji

#50 Posted by Cooldes (3925 posts) - - Show Bio

@homicidalmaniac: this was sooo long ago.-. When i first joined the site actually...

I still say enel wins :p