Phoenix Force FTW
emotional spectrum vs phoenix force
" What the emotional Spectrum? Something to do with the lanterns im guessing "Im guessing all lantern corps colors or something like that.
Good god all the lanterns...I know Phoenix Force is crazy but...ALL the lanterns of their respective Core...christ
Haha ehhh I'm not getting into a long drawn out argument about this. The the Emo-spectrum entities have reality warping powers, incredible feats (with just 2 entities explored), and Phoenix force is creation yea? Well Imagine Death, Rage, Avarice, Fear, Will, Hope, Compassion, Love, AND Life entities that literally represent these concepts in the DC Universe fighting against the Phoenix. Game over. Make it Phoenix force and Goblin Force and Full Power Cosmic vs Emotional Spectrum would be a closer fight.
"Haha ehhh I'm not getting into a long drawn out argument about this. The the Emo-spectrum entities have reality warping powers, incredible feats (with just 2 entities explored), and Phoenix force is creation yea? Well Imagine Death, Rage, Avarice, Fear, Will, Hope, Compassion, Love, AND Life entities that literally represent these concepts in the DC Universe fighting against the Phoenix. Game over. Make it Phoenix force and Goblin Force and Full Power Cosmic vs Emotional Spectrum would be a closer fight. "
The fact is that Black and White Lanterns don't belong to Emo-spectrum . Besides ZH Parallax Hal was deleting the time-lines with messing up with Timestream(not his own power) and was restarting the universe thanks to the knowledge the Guradians gave him (so not on his own power). Even Hannd of God Kyle doens't even have any feats that put him on par with Phoenix force avatar.
Also the fact is that Phoenix force is Multiversal while all Emo-spectrum entities are universal (even White entity and Nekron ). Not to mention that Jean as an avatar of Phoenix Force held universe in her hand, and that the Phoenix force can't be killed (on the otherhand Emo-spectrum are stated to be killable). Phoenix stomps this one .
Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF.
" @FinalStar86 said:Yeah, but even the weaker Hal Jordan Spectre was doing that, PF has never done anything special beyond repair a single universe."Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF. "all of reality? >.> "
" @FLCL1 said:" @FinalStar86 said:Yeah, but even the weaker Hal Jordan Spectre was doing that, PF has never done anything special beyond repair a single universe. ""Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF. "all of reality? >.> "
explain what you mean by all of reality.
do you mean the whole mulitverse?
" @FLCL1 said:Why downplay such a feat? Jean did that without even knowing how to do it. She just had to will it to happen." @FinalStar86 said:Yeah, but even the weaker Hal Jordan Spectre was doing that, PF has never done anything special beyond repair a single universe. ""Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF. "all of reality? >.> "
" @FinalStar86 said:I'm not downplaying it, in fact I stated that it was special, it's just arguably her best feat considering she's suppose to be a multiversal entity." @FLCL1 said:Why downplay such a feat? Jean did that without even knowing how to do it. She just had to will it to happen. "" @FinalStar86 said:Yeah, but even the weaker Hal Jordan Spectre was doing that, PF has never done anything special beyond repair a single universe. ""Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF. "all of reality? >.> "
" Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF. "It was only a portion of the PF that was devoured, and a fraction of the PF (the part in Jean Grey), was capable of repairing the M'Kraan crystal, which is the nexus of all realities (that makes it a multi-dimensional feat). As was stated before, the PF is a multi-dimensional entity.
Emotional Spectrum may win this, I remember Spectre saying that he faced off against the Butcher the enity of rage. That and what Parallax and Ion feats.
"I'm not downplaying it, in fact I stated that it was special, it's just arguably her best feat considering she's suppose to be a multiversal entity. "It seems as though I misread. It seemed to me that you were implying that the mentioned feat was all that she was capable of.
Phoenix Force IMO because it is all of life and creation in multi-universes (or something like that, omni, multi, etc) in all time.... whereas the lanterns are embodiments of emotion alone.... and in my opinion creation of all life would trump that since that includes ALL emotions possible...
" @FinalStar86 said:I looked into that and I never saw anything that said it was only a portion of the PF, it just stated the PF" Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF. "It was only a portion of the PF that was devoured, and a fraction of the PF (the part in Jean Grey), was capable of repairing the M'Kraan crystal, which is the nexus of all realities (that makes it a multi-dimensional feat). As was stated before, the PF is a multi-dimensional entity. "
Since the entire Phoenix Force is partitioned across countless universes and even more hosts, it most certainly was only a portion of the Phoenix Force that was absorbed. Furthermore, if the entire Phoenix Force was absorbed, there would have been no life in any universe much less in the Phoenix Blade.
I showed a mutilversal feat of a fraction of the PF, which is a lot more than you claimed that it had.
I never denied that it was a multiversal entity, I stated that it's greatest feat was repairing a universe." @FinalStar86: It also killed Galactus after consuming the PF, and Galactus has been stated to be on par with Eternity. I showed a mutilversal feat of a fraction of the PF, which is a lot more than you claimed that it had. "
Also since you brought up the M'K crystal, last I checked the PF needed it to traverse the multiverse.
Being on par with Eternity doesn't mean much because all of them are above Eternity
" @erik: Thanks :) "No problem.
@FinalStar86 said:
" @Ferro Vida said:" @FinalStar86: It also killed Galactus after consuming the PF, and Galactus has been stated to be on par with Eternity. I showed a mutilversal feat of a fraction of the PF, which is a lot more than you claimed that it had. "I never denied that it was a multiversal entity, I stated that it's greatest feat was repairing a universe. Also since you brought up the M'K crystal, last I checked the PF needed it to traverse the multiverse. "
It never said that it is needed. Especially when Rachel (who only holds a fraction of the Phoenix Force) is able to use it to jump to alternate universes (and no, it was not really time travel but instead transversing realities). But in any case, the M'Krran Crystal is the nexus of all reality anyway. Why not use it? Why try to run through a wall when there is already an unlocked door for you?
the phoenix force at full power is multiversal. since clack and white arent actually on the emotional spectrum (those r the only 2 i see as a threat), i give it to PF
Parallax was able to operate on a multi universal scale, PF repaired realities, Parallax recreated them. Either Ion or Parallax at full power eclipses the PF." the phoenix force at full power is multiversal. since clack and white arent actually on the emotional spectrum (those r the only 2 i see as a threat), i give it to PF "
"Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF. "
" Good god all the lanterns...I know Phoenix Force is crazy but...ALL the lanterns of their respective Core...christ "
@FinalStar86 said:
"Emotional spectrum, PF was devoured by the GF which in turn was contained by the Celestials, PF greatest feat was repairing one universe, two of the ES entities were capable of recreating all of reality, any of them could solo the PF. "
Weren't the Celestials killed in the process and wasn't just a hostless phoenix of the said universe that was trying to get to JG of that reality? Make it sound like just about any random off shoot alternate universe counter part that never appeared in 616 can devour the phoenix.
Heck you could debate stalemate consideing it's a bunch hostless entities without feats to their name. :P
Ion alone could match the PF, given its establish nigh-omnipotent status and absolute powers over space, time, and reality. Now, I know the PF is good, but against the entire Emotional Spectrum? (a spectrum with seven different entities, each arguably matching the PF's power [Ion is arguably superior, as stated in the numerous battles between the two and given his feat sheet, Parallax could possibly match PF, and the Butcher was almost spoken of warily by the Spectre, as a testament to its power]) There is no way PF could win against them all.
"Ion alone could match the PF, given its establish nigh-omnipotent status and absolute powers over space, time, and reality."
Yat clearly showed that Ion is quite a few notches in power below what it once was.
Doesn't help that a rogue guardian was chaining up said spectrums on his own.
" Now, I know the PF is good, but against the entire Emotional Spectrum? (a spectrum with seven different entities, each arguably matching the PF's power [Ion is arguably superior, as stated in the numerous battles between the two and given his feat sheet, Parallax could possibly match PF, and the Butcher was almost spoken of warily by the Spectre, as a testament to its power]) There is no way PF could win against them all. "
Should we start pulling a showing of the Beyonder being blinded by the PF empowered Rachel?
"Ion alone could match the PF, given its establish nigh-omnipotent status and absolute powers over space, time, and reality. Now, I know the PF is good, but against the entire Emotional Spectrum? (a spectrum with seven different entities, each arguably matching the PF's power [Ion is arguably superior, as stated in the numerous battles between the two and given his feat sheet, Parallax could possibly match PF, and the Butcher was almost spoken of warily by the Spectre, as a testament to its power]) There is no way PF could win against them all. "
True, forgot about Ion first one especially lol
Phoenix Force..
the PF embodies creation as well as destruction.. it's flames is what brought life to the infinite darkness resulting to the transcendent act known as Creation.. it is also the source of all life in all existing realities in the Omniverse.. IIRC, the combined ES results to the being known as the Life Entity, the being responsible for the light of creation, as well as all life in the DC universe.. basically, it's DC's version of the Phoenix Force.. which is quite logical since each of the ES embodies a certain emotion of sentient beings while the Phoenix is life itself..
i find it funny why most people keep using the instance with the Goblin Entity.. the Goblin Entity is just a universal being isolated in Earth-1298.. it devoured that realities version of Galactus.. the PF is a multiversal entity.. so basically, it exist in all realities at once.. but the problem here is that what the GE devoured is not the full essence of the PF itself.. be reminded that the PF is not a corporeal being or an abstract.. it is a FORCE.. it is the force of Creation, Destruction and Life.. as its nature suggest, the PF cannot manifest into the physical plane without using as raw energy form, which is often depicted as the Firebird form it mostly depicts.. this has been proven in panel many times..
to those who cannot remember, the Goblin Entity is a being with a ravenous hunger and derives its power from devouring and absorbing cosmic energy.. most probably, what the GE absorbed is the cosmic energy that forms the Phoenix's form when manifesting into the physical plane.. so that does mean it defeated it? NO.. if the PF was truly devoured then ALL LIFE IN ALL EXISTING REALITIES SHOULD HAVE PERISHED.. plus i find it funny how the GE was contained by the Celestials of that reality when in the prime reality (Earth-616), Jean Grey managed to destroy the hand of the celestial Arishem the Judge with nothing more but with an echo of the power of the Phoenix..
the full extent of the power of the Phoenix is still unknown.. but it has displayed feats that most cosmic abstracts could only dream of.. a fraction of its power is sufficient enough to create an energy matrix and compress existing alternate realities into singularity, ultimately destroying them.. Jean Grey as the White Phoenix of the Crown is capable of controlling the entire 616 Reality through telekinetic Godhood and literally hold the entire universe in the palm of her hands.. Rachel Summers once granted the full power of the Phoenix is capable of fighting the omnipotent Beyonder at equal levels.. a feat most of the cosmic hierarchy can only hope to achieve..
i remember a certain debate where i had the chance to talk with one awesome debater.. we tried to compared the power of Parallax to that of the Scarlet Witch at the height of her powers (HoM).. so far, i believe that the Scarlet Witch's feat dwarfs that of Parallax.. Wanda Maximoff has destroyed and re-created reality itself, casting her spell over billions upon billions of souls, worlds and dimensions, affecting all existing realities with nothing more but three simple words.. and all those who have followed this saga knows that it was the Phoenix who finally broke the Scarlet Witch's "curse"..
the ES are powerful individually.. but their combined might (the Life Entity) is the only thing that is even close to the power of the Phoenix Force..
Phoenix Force takes this fight..
Actually if this was just the entities and not them at full power like ZH Parallax and HOG Ion, then I can see the PF possibly taking this.
Actually NVM
the full power of the Phoenix Force has fought a being that even HOG Ion pales in comparison, and most cosmic beings for that matter.. Parallax still has to proves himself more powerful that beings whose power has been is still below that of the Phoenix..
feats and semantics says Phoenix Force takes the fight..
" Meh. "I know, this is just going to turn into Ion or Parallax vs the PF again. This thread is basically a rehash
Right, except that Parallax actually has better feats then the PF who's best feat was holding a minuture version of a universe in her hands. And since were going by ABC logic
HOG Ion>>ZH Parallax>>PF who never did anything on a multiversal scale
Actually even the entities should win, the Butcher was able to take it to the Spectre who's also >>to the PF, even the weaker Hal Jordan incarnation had better feats then the PF ei recreating all of reality. .
" @The Dark Huntress said:The OP is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too vague. As in no details at all. I'd need to know if it were the entities themselves or them at their most powerful (or any) incarnations as Lanterns. I'd need to know a slew of stuff, like if white and black are involved at all. If any Lanterns are involved. Stuff that should generally be put in OPs." Meh. "I know, this is just going to turn into Ion or Parallax vs the PF again. This thread is basically a rehash "
holding an entire universe is a feat not to be taken lightly.. it's a feat which displays the level of power one being has.. if the WPOTC was able to heal an entire universe just out of compassion, it shows a greater degree to her power which reflects herself capable of destroying universe if she wanted to.. also, the universe is not miniature or insignificant.. it's the entire 616 Universe, Marvel's prime reality..
the Phoenix has displayed many multiversal feats which are proven in panel.. so why does some people keep ignoring that fact.. i could state each and everyone of them, but i really don't like to repeat myself..
i'm still waiting for someone to prove to me that Parallax is more powerful than the Scarlet Witch during the HoM.. the same Scarlet Witch whose power is still below to that of the PF..
now let's compare the Spectre's greatest feat to that of the Phoenix.. Spectre's greatest feat was when he fought the Anti-Monitor during the COIE where he was backed-up by the most powerful magicians in his universe.. Necrom with the fraction of the power of the PF managed to perform a feat very similar to that of the Anti-Monitor..
the Beyonder at the height of his power would demolish HOG Ion as well as the entire ES with nothing but a mere flick of a finger.. the Phoenix fought him at equal levels.. that is something very very few beings have ever managed to do..
it is also must be noted that the Phoenix is easily capable of re-creating reality.. as what the Watcher said during the DArk Phoenix Saga, she only has to think.. and that thought would become instant reality.. the Scarlet Witch did more than that.. but her powers are still inferior to that of the Phoenix..
it was also said that the Phoenix can easily create her own universe if she wanted too.. creating your own universe >>>>> re-creating a universe.. but the Phoenix's purpose is not to play GOD.. that is why it was given to Jean Grey.. the mortal who Death herself claimed that it has never met a mortal so dedicated to life as her.. it is through her mortal compassion which would make sure that the Godly power of the Phoenix will never be abused..
No one is taking it lightly, it's just a mediocre feat in comparison to recreating every time line an alternate reality.
And I'm still waiting for someone to prove the SW during HOM could control time [chronol energies] so far no one has been able to prove that Wanda can control time.
No he didn't, I saw the scans of Necrom supposedly compressing every alternate Earth, that doesn't compare to what the AM did which was reduce an INFINITE number of universes to a handful. Marvel's multiverse/omniverse does not consist of an infinite number of universes.
The Beyonder at the height of his power would demolish the PF with a flick of a finger also, the Phoenix NEVER fought him at equal levels, Rachel flashed her light in his face and that was it, it's another mediocre feat that Phoenix fanboys blow out of proportion along with the rest of her mediocre feats.
It should be noted that the Phoenix is easily capable of re creating reality, even though she's never come close to doing so and there has never any indication of her being able to do so.
Creating things out of thin air does not = recreating reality
Right, even there has never been any indication of this. But she could probably do it. Problem is creating your universe is a feat that skyfather level characters have been able to do before.
Basically it's more of the same blowing Phoenix's mediocre feats out of proportion.
" And I'm still waiting for someone to prove the SW during HOM could control time [chronol energies] so far no one has been able to prove that Wanda can control time. . "
Because she couldn't. HOM Wanda's vastly overrated. She was insane and not in full control of either herself or her powers. Powers which do NOT include the Chaos Wave. That's like dropping a pebble in the water and saying that you have water manipulation because your actions caused the ripples. It's not at all accurate.
butcher never took on the spectre though,and even if he did i still wouldnt consider it much of a feat seeing how johns has written the spectre (who i would actually put at skyfather level tops),one shotted by nekron,schooled by jordan,afraid of parallax etc see what i mean.
and mind you geoff is introducing these characters as uberly powerful but down the road he will either retcon it away or completely ignore it(larfleeze is a prime example)
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