Emma Frost vs Shadow King

The fight takes place outside of the X-Men Mansion.

No prep. In character.

Win via Death. Picture versions.

Who wins?

dont know about shawdow king to vote

Shadow King fairly handily. Regardless of whether she has her TP or not.

Shadow King can't die if I remember correctly.

Fully powered TP Emma would be an interesting fight, but I think SK would take a majority.

Shadow King for the win. Emma would put up on helluva fight but If he's serious, Shadow King should shut her down indefinitely.

@thunderbolt30: Lets say this is Fully powered TP Emma.

Shadow King.

This would be a great fight that I would love to see on panel. I think SK has more raw power and is a bit more skilled than Emma but she has proven to be a challenge to top tier telepaths (Exodus, Sinister, and Rachel Grey) so I think she could give definitely get some good licks in on Shadow King. I think she is skilled enough to outsmart him given time, but in a straight battle of over all power and skill and I think Farouk would win.

Let's talk about it.

Shadow King should win. But Emma will not go down easy at all

Tp Strength: Shadow King > Emma

Tp Skill: Emma > Shadow King

So it’s a really close fight but I see Shadow King winning a 6/10 majority

I....don't know. My brain says Shadow King but my heart says Emma LOL

X-Men Worlds Apart, while trolling Storm, Tchalla and Gentle in Wakanda, Shadow King does this to Emma in San Francisco..

In a straight telepathic battle, without her hiding in diamond Form, he wins

Emma dies, Emma is not Psylocke. Psyloke is very formidable when it comes to tp defence. Tho i don't really support Psylocke defeating the SK who is at least a universal level entity. But i don't really see Emma defeating or even hurting the SK.

@emmafrostxmen: since when is Emma more skilled than an entity as old as the astral plan? An entity whose realm is actually the astral plan and mastered it completely??

Enlighten me please!

Farouk was able to enslave Proteus for an indeterminate Amount of years

Alone I don’t think she can stop him

@emmett_frost: Skill feats for shadow king? A title doesn’t mean anything on this, and he’s not infallible he’s been beaten before.

Shadow King would be the only psi-character I'd say that could out-skill Xavier. That said, Classic Shadow King would beat Emma, but the SK over the recent years seems to be written weaker and inconsistent. Emma may win against the weaker Shadow King we see in today's comics.

.........The only way I can see Emma winning is if she had prep of some sort and attacked first. Emma can’t put-muscle Shadow King, but she can outskill him with cunning strategy like how she trapped Xavier by setting up a trap in Scott’s mind.

In a random encounter, I can’t see Emma winning without finding some sort of opening.

@emmett_frost: By That Logic, Shadow King should mop the floor with Xavier, but that isn’t the case. Xavier has beaten Shadow King in his own realm time and again, so don’t act like Shadow King being older than Emma gives him an edge.

Emma Frost has dozens of skill feats, even against high tier telepaths. If Psylocke, a massively inferior telepath can duke it out with Shadow King in his own realm, then Emma has a chance.

@emmett_frost: He got beat by a newbie Xavier and a a newbie karma. I’m not saying emma wind but If anything he needs skill feats to compare with Emma.

He only lost to newbie Xavier because he toyed around with the Professor instead of taking care of business. The issue made it very clear that Shadow and Xavier were equal in power, but SK had the advantage in terms of skill and experience. SK should have won if it weren't for his overconfidence that gave Xavier the opening to win.

That said, the next time SK battled Xavier, he dwarfed Xavier in power and was beating him so badly in the astral plane that the bones in Xavier's physical were being grounded into powder. Jean had to take the X-Men into the Astral Plane to help Xavier, and even still they could not beat him. It took the other team of X-Men working against SK outside the Astral Plane to land the final blow on him while Xavier, Jean, and a whole host of X-Men kept him busy on the Astral Plance.

When Karma beat SK, she she only won because he was in a weakened state.

@stormcell: I think my point still stands. If he was skilled as you say he would’ve been able to work around Xavier’s overconfidence and again the karma thing doesn’t help him even if he was in a weakened state.

shadow king

Emma frost , Emma frost xavier and jean are all on par with each other , Emma is the most skilled and sly of the three , shadow king isnt touching her

emma frost

shadow king only wins with prep

I'd have to say Shadow King in this instance. Way too competent for Emma to handle and actually has reliable scaling to Xavier as opposed to needing psychic ambushes on a rusty version to even get a heads-up.

^

Xavier wasn’t rusty in the slightest. The man literally broke out of a psychic loop a couple issues before that one Emma was in and he literally beat a high tier after just coming out of brain surgery. The man was completely fine in that era even with amnesia combat wise.

Context etc. Exodus didn't even want to fight Xavier as he himself stated right afterwards. He wanted to radicalise him with his own memories relayed back to him as opposed to trying to defeat/overwhelm him, so using it as proof has to come with that baggage, especially given all Exodus did was just shove memories in Xavier's face before inevitably getting shoved out.

It's the same version who in the next few issues can't read through seemingly fodder-tier psi-shields being used by assassins. He just didn't have the instincts or the experience that the usual Xavier uses to great effect and that's played out pretty well given the issues this happens in.

Idk if scaling from mental ambushes are fair game either. You have an issue of these being, well, ambushes, which historically have allowed lesser telepaths to beat stronger ones despite the conditions otherwise being against them in nearly every way. Would it be fair to use the same scaling justifications for those instances as well?

@professorrespect: 1) “Context etc. Exodus didn't even want to fight Xavier as he himself stated right afterwards. He wanted to radicalise him with his own memories relayed back to him as opposed to trying to defeat/overwhelm him, so using it as proof has to come with that baggage, especially given all Exodus did was just shove memories in Xavier's face before inevitably getting shoved out.”

First, that doesn’t prove Xavier was rusty. It merely proves Exodus may or may not have held back, which Xavier still beat.

Second, Exodus may not have wanted to fight, but that doesn’t mean he pulled his punches. And even if he did, one could argue Xavier was of the same mind-set if not more based around Xavier’s character alone. Never mind the fact that Xavier had no motivation to harm Exodus in that exact instance.

All that, yet Emma states anyone near the epicenter of their psychic fight would have been in danger. So, the idea that either of them were holding back with that much energy being outputted at one another either displays high tier telepaths as dangerous to be near when in conflict with each other(which is not consistent enough to prove outright) or your presumption off of that Exodus’s reluctance to fight had any hand is inaccurate or not that relevant.

2) “It's the same version who in the next few issues can't read through seemingly fodder-tier psi-shields being used by assassins. He just didn't have the instincts or the experience that the usual Xavier uses to great effect and that's played out pretty well given the issues this happens in.”

Based off of what do you judge the shields to be fodder? As far as I can tell, nothing about them indicates that they are fodder in any way. I am not saying they have a wealth of feats to go off of, but the sheer fact that their only feat is blocking Xavier speaks more volumes about them being good off of Xavier‘s own hype.

3) “You have an issue of these being, well, ambushes, which historically have allowed lesser telepaths to beat stronger ones despite the conditions otherwise being against them in nearly every way. Would it be fair to use the same scaling justifications for those instances as well?”

It depends on what exactly the character in question did with that opportunity. I see a lot low-tiers get a one up on powerful foe. I do not see any low or middle tier locking someone’s mind down

@del_torro said:

X-Men Worlds Apart, while trolling Storm, Tchalla and Gentle in Wakanda, Shadow King does this to Emma in San Francisco..

In a straight telepathic battle, without her hiding in diamond Form, he wins

If Emma setting a trap and ambushing Xavier is being taken into account, then Shadow King ambushing Emma should also be noted.

Not way too competent for Emma to handle but he wins this

So, Shadow King has NEVER won a single fight without planetary level prep first...

He's run from teen Karma, Been beaten up by Betsy, And was straight up murdered by a rookie Xavier.

His failures range from forgetting basic Astral defenses mid fight, to being outsmarted and trapped by Sage while piloting an alternate Universe Xavier.

His BEST showing without an amp is controlling Storm, Rachel and Betsy in a battle....and even that's an outlier considering his previous 2 appearances had him being overwhelmed and nearly killed by Betsy and repeatedly resisted by Storm.

But somehow he's "too competent"...?

Idk, I'll be the first to say that Shadow King is a God of prep.....but he has none here and he's utterly lost all of his fights with or without it....so what are we saying he's doing different here?

I'd say he's competent enough to do so. If he wasn't he wouldn't win, no?

Shadowking might win but if emma plays her cards right she might win.

It's 50/50 for me.

They're both sneaky mofos. So its hard to tell who prep time would favour.

I think SK has the power advantage, but if he's playing around then he's going to lose because Emma will go for the kill straight up.