Emma Frost vs Jean Grey(not phoenix)

" @kodygoss said:

"OMG PEOPLE YOU SAID PRE PHOENIX NOT   JEAN GREY( PHOENIX)  AND + Emma Could punch her once in the face with her SUPER STRENGTH in her diamond form and * thump* K.O.          And another thing in the 2nd movie Jean Grey gets Killed by WATER. ?   AND Jean is not stronger than Prof. X  "

WTF, She was not killed by water, she generated a tk cocoon that protected her, thus her appearance in the 3rd movie.  Jean put that diamond form together piece by piece, she could just as easily take it apart.  Nor is Emma immune to Jeans telepathy in her diamond form.  Xavier has always stated that Jean would surpass him, and has done things telepathically that he considers impossible, ie taking over Emma and tranferring her tk into it, holding his entire mind within her own.  When Xaiver lost his power after the Onslaught arc, Jean quickly graduated from 2nd most powerful telepath to most powerful telepath, guess what Emma was still around then, she was often called a psi of the highest order, but a telepath with Xaviers power levels (Cassandra Nova) says that Emma is bush league compared to her and obviously Xavier and by extension Jean whom he regards as having the potential to surpass him.   Onslaughts very presence was enough to send Emma over the edge, she was not in control of her actions causing her to attack her students, with Jean he had to confront her directly yet she remained in control of herself.  Jean has a little box in Scotts mind that Emma can't open, if she were the more powerful telepath especially by the margin some believe her to be then opening it would be childs play.  Jean with newly unlocked telepathy penetrated the Juggernauts mind through his helmut and the psi blast was compared to one of Xaviers, while Emma after years of having her telepathy couldn't get into the minds of Penance or M for that matter.  "

" @Phoenix of the Black Throne said:

" @kodygoss said:

"OMG PEOPLE YOU SAID PRE PHOENIX NOT   JEAN GREY( PHOENIX)  AND + Emma Could punch her once in the face with her SUPER STRENGTH in her diamond form and * thump* K.O.          And another thing in the 2nd movie Jean Grey gets Killed by WATER. ?   AND Jean is not stronger than Prof. X  "

WTF, She was not killed by water, she generated a tk cocoon that protected her, thus her appearance in the 3rd movie.  Jean put that diamond form together piece by piece, she could just as easily take it apart.  Nor is Emma immune to Jeans telepathy in her diamond form.  Xavier has always stated that Jean would surpass him, and has done things telepathically that he considers impossible, ie taking over Emma and tranferring her tk into it, holding his entire mind within her own.  When Xaiver lost his power after the Onslaught arc, Jean quickly graduated from 2nd most powerful telepath to most powerful telepath, guess what Emma was still around then, she was often called a psi of the highest order, but a telepath with Xaviers power levels (Cassandra Nova) says that Emma is bush league compared to her and obviously Xavier and by extension Jean whom he regards as having the potential to surpass him.   Onslaughts very presence was enough to send Emma over the edge, she was not in control of her actions causing her to attack her students, with Jean he had to confront her directly yet she remained in control of herself.  Jean has a little box in Scotts mind that Emma can't open, if she were the more powerful telepath especially by the margin some believe her to be then opening it would be childs play.  Jean with newly unlocked telepathy penetrated the Juggernauts mind through his helmut and the psi blast was compared to one of Xaviers, while Emma after years of having her telepathy couldn't get into the minds of Penance or M for that matter.  "

 Ok self control? have you seen the third X men movie? She kills like everyone and also you keep saying Prof.X said she COULD Surpass him. Not that she did she COULD. Btw  if shes so great why did Wolverine kill her? why didnt she just kill  him ? And yes JEAN GREY got killed by water Phoenix came back in jeans body NOT  actual JEAN GREY. AND i never said she was immuned to her telepthy. "

When fanboys argue, nobody wins.

" @kodygoss said:

" @Phoenix of the Black Throne said:

" @kodygoss said:

"OMG PEOPLE YOU SAID PRE PHOENIX NOT   JEAN GREY( PHOENIX)  AND + Emma Could punch her once in the face with her SUPER STRENGTH in her diamond form and * thump* K.O.          And another thing in the 2nd movie Jean Grey gets Killed by WATER. ?   AND Jean is not stronger than Prof. X  "

WTF, She was not killed by water, she generated a tk cocoon that protected her, thus her appearance in the 3rd movie.  Jean put that diamond form together piece by piece, she could just as easily take it apart.  Nor is Emma immune to Jeans telepathy in her diamond form.  Xavier has always stated that Jean would surpass him, and has done things telepathically that he considers impossible, ie taking over Emma and tranferring her tk into it, holding his entire mind within her own.  When Xaiver lost his power after the Onslaught arc, Jean quickly graduated from 2nd most powerful telepath to most powerful telepath, guess what Emma was still around then, she was often called a psi of the highest order, but a telepath with Xaviers power levels (Cassandra Nova) says that Emma is bush league compared to her and obviously Xavier and by extension Jean whom he regards as having the potential to surpass him.   Onslaughts very presence was enough to send Emma over the edge, she was not in control of her actions causing her to attack her students, with Jean he had to confront her directly yet she remained in control of herself.  Jean has a little box in Scotts mind that Emma can't open, if she were the more powerful telepath especially by the margin some believe her to be then opening it would be childs play.  Jean with newly unlocked telepathy penetrated the Juggernauts mind through his helmut and the psi blast was compared to one of Xaviers, while Emma after years of having her telepathy couldn't get into the minds of Penance or M for that matter.  "

 Ok self control? have you seen the third X men movie? She kills like everyone and also you keep saying Prof.X said she COULD Surpass him. Not that she did she COULD. Btw  if shes so great why did Wolverine kill her? why didnt she just kill  him ? And yes JEAN GREY got killed by water Phoenix came back in jeans body NOT  actual JEAN GREY. AND i never said she was immuned to her telepthy. "

Why did you bring the whole different subject in here? People in this thread are talking about the comic version..not moive. and you are misunderstanding about the moive. Jean "allowed" wolverine to kill her becuase she didn't want to see that Phoenix killed poeple. That's why she said "Save Me" to wolverine. "

" @spekqj said:

" @kodygoss said:

" @Phoenix of the Black Throne said:

" @kodygoss said:

"OMG PEOPLE YOU SAID PRE PHOENIX NOT   JEAN GREY( PHOENIX)  AND + Emma Could punch her once in the face with her SUPER STRENGTH in her diamond form and * thump* K.O.          And another thing in the 2nd movie Jean Grey gets Killed by WATER. ?   AND Jean is not stronger than Prof. X  "

WTF, She was not killed by water, she generated a tk cocoon that protected her, thus her appearance in the 3rd movie.  Jean put that diamond form together piece by piece, she could just as easily take it apart.  Nor is Emma immune to Jeans telepathy in her diamond form.  Xavier has always stated that Jean would surpass him, and has done things telepathically that he considers impossible, ie taking over Emma and tranferring her tk into it, holding his entire mind within her own.  When Xaiver lost his power after the Onslaught arc, Jean quickly graduated from 2nd most powerful telepath to most powerful telepath, guess what Emma was still around then, she was often called a psi of the highest order, but a telepath with Xaviers power levels (Cassandra Nova) says that Emma is bush league compared to her and obviously Xavier and by extension Jean whom he regards as having the potential to surpass him.   Onslaughts very presence was enough to send Emma over the edge, she was not in control of her actions causing her to attack her students, with Jean he had to confront her directly yet she remained in control of herself.  Jean has a little box in Scotts mind that Emma can't open, if she were the more powerful telepath especially by the margin some believe her to be then opening it would be childs play.  Jean with newly unlocked telepathy penetrated the Juggernauts mind through his helmut and the psi blast was compared to one of Xaviers, while Emma after years of having her telepathy couldn't get into the minds of Penance or M for that matter.  "

 Ok self control? have you seen the third X men movie? She kills like everyone and also you keep saying Prof.X said she COULD Surpass him. Not that she did she COULD. Btw  if shes so great why did Wolverine kill her? why didnt she just kill  him ? And yes JEAN GREY got killed by water Phoenix came back in jeans body NOT  actual JEAN GREY. AND i never said she was immuned to her telepthy. "

Why did you bring the whole different subject in here? People in this thread are talking about the comic version..not moive. and you are misunderstanding about the moive. Jean "allowed" wolverine to kill her becuase she didn't want to see that Phoenix killed poeple. That's why she said "Save Me" to wolverine. "

   Ok? why did you all change the subject all the time and talk about Phoenix even though you said JEAN GREY not Phoenix. O and btw you never specified it had to be the comic you only asked who would win. "

Jean beats Emma any day, Jean doesn't need the phoenix force to fight emma, without the phoenix force jean is still close to an Omega mutant, and with the Phoenix Force Jean IS the strongest telepath on earth and probably everywhere else. A lot of people say that Professer X is the strongest telepath in the world, but they are wrong. The one time that the professer tried to fight the Phoenix in a telepathic battle he almost died, the only reason he won was because he was able to contact JEAN GREY when he was losing, if jean hadn't helped him in time, he would have lost.

"

Jean beats Emma any day, Jean doesn't need the phoenix force to fight emma, without the phoenix force jean is still close to an Omega mutant, and with the Phoenix Force Jean IS the strongest telepath on earth and probably everywhere else. A lot of people say that Professer X is the strongest telepath in the world, but they are wrong. The one time that the professer tried to fight the Phoenix in a telepathic battle he almost died, the only reason he won was because he was able to contact JEAN GREY when he was losing, if jean hadn't helped him in time, he would have lost.

 

"

  so much hotter that she had to trick Cyclops into having a psi affair with her by appearing as Jeaesque as she could and only is with him because Jean willed it so, so much hotter that even after getting her new nose, Jean was a fashion model even though she does not meet the height requirements.  Over exaggerated sex appeal does not equal hotter it's the reason many call her a slut, but then again I guess it's a matter of preference and has no bearing in Jean kicking the diamond encrusted shit out of Emma.   

Jean... its always been Jean.

they are bothe tremendously powerful telepaths but their level is quite near to each other but i think jean has higher level than emma their gap is just is just very little

emma is more powerful when jean doesn't have the phoenix .

"emma is more powerful when jean doesn't have the phoenix . "

"emma is more powerful when jean doesn't have the phoenix . "

brutal idk maybe emma?

Emma is a omega level telepath, Jean might be a omega level mutant without the phoenix, but that is to the fact of her powers combine , telepathy and telekinesis, that doesn´t mean she is a stronger telepath than Emma. Also, I dont have to remind you people that Emma was able to enter Jeans mind and allow Mastermind to create illusions ion her. AND on phoenix endsong Emma was able to get into Jeans deepest thoughts, If Jean is a telepath that powerfull, how did she allow Emma´s mind get into hers?

jean easily..

Emma is a omega level telepath, Jean might be a omega level mutant without the phoenix, but that is to the fact of her powers combine , telepathy and telekinesis, that doesn´t mean she is a stronger telepath than Emma. Also, I dont have to remind you people that Emma was able to enter Jeans mind and allow Mastermind to create illusions ion her. AND on phoenix endsong Emma was able to get into Jeans deepest thoughts, If Jean is a telepath that powerfull, how did she allow Emma´s mind get into hers?

Emma is a omega level telepath

Jean might be a omega level mutant without the phoenix, but that is to the fact of her powers combine , telepathy and telekinesis

that doesn´t mean she is a stronger telepath than Emma.

@emmo_frost: 

Emma is a omega level telepath

No she isn't. Emma is an omega class telepath.
 

Jean might be a omega level mutant without the phoenix, but that is to the fact of her powers combine , telepathy and telekinesis

No it isn't because she has both telekinesis and telepathy, it's because she is an omega level mutant in both aspects. 

that doesn´t mean she is a stronger telepath than Emma.

Yes it does. Jean's a stronger telepath because she is a stronger telepath and better at that. It's as clear cut as that.

When it comes to using the Phoenix Spider-Phoenix wins

We really don't know what Jean can do without the Phoenix. The reason for this is when Jean was watching her friend Annie die Jean was dying with her. So the Phoenix stepped in and pulled Jean's mind out of death. And when it did this, the Phoenix left a very small and tiny part of it in her. And as everyone knows, a small part of it is off the scale powerful. Then after the whole Inferno thing the Phoenix left even more of it in her.

A battle against Emma and Jean would end just like this

(change Charles for Jean and you get the idea)

@boob:

Do you understand that Emma had to basically cheat to win that fight? She set a mental "trap" before there was even a fight so it was over a soon as it began. She would stand no chance in a even fight with Xavier.

@boob said:

When it comes to using the Phoenix Spider-Phoenix wins

We really don't know what Jean can do without the Phoenix. The reason for this is when Jean was watching her friend Annie die Jean was dying with her. So the Phoenix stepped in and pulled Jean's mind out of death. And when it did this, the Phoenix left a very small and tiny part of it in her. And as everyone knows, a small part of it is off the scale powerful. Then after the whole Inferno thing the Phoenix left even more of it in her.

A battle against Emma and Jean would end just like this

(change Charles for Jean and you get the idea)

So a battle between them would look like that? Gotcha, Emma needs psychic prep to beat her, something she doesn't have here so Jean wins.

Jean doesn't need phoenix to beat Emma. Redhead will win

@god_spawn: @Erik:

Thats why I love Emma, she has no problem with doing whatever it takes to get the job done. In diamond form she is safe against Jean's telepathy. How strong is Jean's t/k? Don't know, all her big feats may or may not have been possible because of the Phoenix. And since this is Jean Grey vs Emma, the closest we have to seeing her t/k is when she is Marvel Girl. And lets face it Marvel Girl vs Emma there is no contest, Emma would kick her ass to next Thursday, then get her nails done. Then depending on her mood, kick Jean's ass again.

@boob: Jean's TK is on a molecular level, diamond form is the worst possible thing Emma can do. You're twisting a lot of crap around trying to make a viable case for Emma when there really isn't one. Emma is a weaker telepath, she is a less skilled telepath. Emma goes diamond, so ok Jean won't get her as easy with telepathy but her TK would make this an even bigger stomp than it would be in a telepathic battle.

@boob said:

@god_spawn: @Erik:

Thats why I love Emma, she has no problem with doing whatever it takes to get the job done. In diamond form she is safe against Jean's telepathy. How strong is Jean's t/k? Don't know, all her big feats may or may not have been possible because of the Phoenix. And since this is Jean Grey vs Emma, the closest we have to seeing her t/k is when she is Marvel Girl. And lets face it Marvel Girl vs Emma there is no contest, Emma would kick her ass to next Thursday, then get her nails done. Then depending on her mood, kick Jean's ass again.

Jean's post Phoenix Saga TK feats outstretch her Marvel Girl feats by miles.

@god_spawn: Please show me an image where Jean was able to use her T/k like that with out the Phoenix.

@Erik:

When she joined X-Factor she may or may have not had a small part of the Phoenix in her, due to when she watched Annie die. And as I stated before, a drop of Phoenix in you is power off the scale. Then after Inferno she had some of the Phoenix (and Maddie) moving around her head.

So anything after Inferno will totally have some of the Phoenix's power (maybe its not Jean that I hate but the Phoenix, hmmmm).

@boob:

Watching someone die had nothing to do with the Phoenix Force. When she first was retrieved from the Hudson Bay, it was revealed that at up until that point, she had NEVER been possessed by or possessed herself, the Phoenix Force.

She also never had the Force at any time during X-Factor. In fact, the Force did not appear again until about 2000.

@boob: Why would I need a scan like that in the first place? The simple fact that even outside of PF, she is an omega level mutant in telepathic and telekinetic powers. She can BFR Emma with the flick of a wrist or when Emma's struggling in a telepathic encounter and slam her into the ground. There isn't anything that Emma has that puts her over Jean in anyway in a fight like this.

@Erik: Please read the whole picture that I posted, because it sounds to me like she is letting in the Phoenix that was in Maddie's mind. Also you need to read Jean's back story. When Jean and her best friend Annie were playing as children Annie got hit buy a car. As she was dying Jean for the first time used her telepathy. But because she was knew to this she was being dragged into death with Annie. That is when the Phoenix stepped in and used its power to stop Jean from dying. And it may have left a small part of it in her.

@god_spawn said:

@boob: Why would I need a scan like that in the first place? The simple fact that even outside of PF, she is an omega level mutant in telepathic and telekinetic powers. She can BFR Emma with the flick of a wrist or when Emma's struggling in a telepathic encounter and slam her into the ground. There isn't anything that Emma has that puts her over Jean in anyway in a fight like this.

If you don't then it is just talk. Yes Jean has used her T/K on that level, but with the Phoenix's help. What would slamming Emma into the ground do? She is a diamond. She has taken hits from powerhouses like the Hulk, and been hit by lightning then thrown into a brick wall followed by having a boulder slam into her. and she didn't have a dent on her. Jean's power doesn't stack up to that.

@boob:

Lol did you actually read that issue or did you just rip the scan from some respect thread? Jean has the memories of Maddie and the Phoenix because the Phoenix used her mind as a template while Jean was healing at the bottom of the Hudson Bay. When the Force died, that template transferred itself to Maddie and the clone became sentient. Once Maddie died, Jean got that fraction of her mind back. Sounds to me like you are the one that needs to read up on your Jean back history. I should not have to explain these very basic things to someone that claims to know the character.

Okay so I am willing to accept that I do not have the half a dozen different ways Jean's first encounter with her telepathy was explained committed to memory. Maybe you can tell me which issue it is in that stated the Phoenix Force intervened? Because I can guarantee you that I own it.

@boob said:

@Erik: Please read the whole picture that I posted, because it sounds to me like she is letting in the Phoenix that was in Maddie's mind. Also you need to read Jean's back story. When Jean and her best friend Annie were playing as children Annie got hit buy a car. As she was dying Jean for the first time used her telepathy. But because she was knew to this she was being dragged into death with Annie. That is when the Phoenix stepped in and used its power to stop Jean from dying. And it may have left a small part of it in her.

@god_spawn said:

@boob: Why would I need a scan like that in the first place? The simple fact that even outside of PF, she is an omega level mutant in telepathic and telekinetic powers. She can BFR Emma with the flick of a wrist or when Emma's struggling in a telepathic encounter and slam her into the ground. There isn't anything that Emma has that puts her over Jean in anyway in a fight like this.

If you don't then it is just talk. Yes Jean has used her T/K on that level, but with the Phoenix's help. What would slamming Emma into the ground do? She is a diamond. She has taken hits from powerhouses like the Hulk, and been hit by lightning then thrown into a brick wall followed by having a boulder slam into her. and she didn't have a dent on her. Jean's power doesn't stack up to that.

O_O doesn't emma's diamond form have a soft spot? I'm pretty sure jean knows every inch of emma after (with the phoenix) put emma back together, so we would probably use her TK to shatter emma's diamond form XD

But even if she didn't emma can't do anything in diamond form, jean can fly with her TK and hold diamond emma back. If there's water around, jean would probably drop her in the ocean or a river. So they really can't hurt each other physically/mentally in that fight.

The fight would have to be an astral battle, but not sure where jean's TP level was without phoenix but she is omega so she already has an edge over emma. I think Jean would win, but she would probably squeak by because emma does play dirty and jean has been out of the game for a while.

@boob: Is what I'm saying blowing in one ear and out the other? Nothing Emma has puts her over Jean, I already said that she can just BFR Emma with a flick of her wrist, she doesn't need to rip her apart molecule by molecule or anything like that. I also said while in a telepathic struggle Jean can just slam her into the ground, Emma can't use her telepathy while in diamond form and she's a normal human in durability when not in it and can be KO'd by that. Diamond form is the worst thing she can do, and to be honest I'm one of the biggest Emma fanboys on the site, you aren't saying anything I don't already know, but you don't have a case. Diamond form is useless except as defense against Jean's telepathy, Emma has no way to counter Jean's TK and can just be thrown out of the battlefield or slammed into the ground so she can't move like Hulk did. Emma has no way in a straight up fight to over power or out skill Jean.

@EnSabahNurX:

O_O doesn't emma's diamond form have a soft spot? I'm pretty sure jean knows every inch of emma after (with the phoenix) put emma back together, so we would probably use her TK to shatter emma's diamond form XD

I don't think Jean would kill her.

But even if she didn't emma can't do anything in diamond form, jean can fly with her TK and hold diamond emma back. If there's water around, jean would probably drop her in the ocean or a river. So they really can't hurt each other physically/mentally in that fight

There is no water around in the OP, so I doubt that would happen. But Jean's TK is strong to effortlessly BFR Emma or plant her in the ground like WWH did for an incapacitation.

The fight would have to be an astral battle, but not sure where jean's TP level was without phoenix but she is omega so she already has an edge over emma. I think Jean would win, but she would probably squeak by because emma does play dirty and jean has been out of the game for a while

I'm sure they've had their share of encounters in the past even when Emma was in the HFC if I'm not mistaken. They both know each other pretty well, I don't see Emma playing dirty as a way she slides by with a win, Jean would probably see it coming.

Jean wins.

her@god_spawn said:

@boob: Is what I'm saying blowing in one ear and out the other? Nothing Emma has puts her over Jean, I already said that she can just BFR Emma with a flick of her wrist, she doesn't need to rip her apart molecule by molecule or anything like that. I also said while in a telepathic struggle Jean can just slam her into the ground, Emma can't use her telepathy while in diamond form and she's a normal human in durability when not in it and can be KO'd by that. Diamond form is the worst thing she can do, and to be honest I'm one of the biggest Emma fanboys on the site, you aren't saying anything I don't already know, but you don't have a case. Diamond form is useless except as defense against Jean's telepathy, Emma has no way to counter Jean's TK and can just be thrown out of the battlefield or slammed into the ground so she can't move like Hulk did. Emma has no way in a straight up fight to over power or out skill Jean.

Let me guess Jean's T/K is also strong enough to hold out against Scott's full power......because I know Emma's diamond form is able to take it. She has shown it, as well as Rogue has shown this (poor dead fishy).

@Erik: Yes I have read all of Inferno (was not impressed to many wtfs), I own it =). I don't have a scanner so I have to get the scans that I post off of the internet. Thats why many of them may seem incomplete. But the fact remains Jean was given a choice, and she wanted to live, and this meant letting in a part of Phoenix and Maddie.

@boob:

If you read Inferno, you would have known that what she got back were memories. A piece of herself that was always hers, only taken by the Phoenix. The Phoenix never "got in" as you say. You make it sound like a virus or whatever. I do not think you have a firm understanding of what the Phoenix Force is or what it does.

I would say Jean is more powerful and would win.

@Erik:

http://forums.comicbookresources.com/showthread.php?t=358955&page=8

#119, I'll get back to you on all the issue numbers tomorrow. To sick.

@boob:

Why did you link a thread 17 pages long? Nothing in it states anything that is contrary to what I have been stating this entire time.

@boob:

Let me guess Jean's T/K is also strong enough to hold out against Scott's full power......because I know Emma's diamond form is able to take it. She has shown it,

Are you listening at all? Do you have an understanding of what telekinesis is? What Emma's diamond form can take is irrelevant for the 2nd time. I don't care that it can take Scott's blast, hits from WWH, getting blasted by Bishop, the destruction of Genosha. Those are all irrelevant. The fact it is useless here except for telepathic defense, she can't get in close to Jean who can BFR and win or slam her into the ground like WWH so she can't move which counts as a win for Jean. If Emma wants to try a telepathic battle, she loses because she has to worry about Jean's TK which a simple flick of Jean's wrist while Emma is pouring her heart out in an attempt to beat Jean in a telepathic battle while not in diamond her face gets smashed into the ground resulting in a KO.

Jean possess far greater raw psionic power than both Charles and Emma.. that is why Charles needed to tap to her reservoir of psionic energy for him to make contact with Akhenaten, the then possessor of the HOTU.. also, i remember Jean besting Emma many times during New X-Men and it was Jean who played a key role in defeating Cassandra Nova.. Emma's diamond form may make immune to Jean's tp but Jean is also a very powerful telekinetic, powerful enough to keep Avalon aloft and control matter at a sub-atomic level..

Jean takes this..

Jean

Emmas diamond form is not immune to Jeans telepathy, when Emma was trapped under the ruble of Genosha she was in this form, they found her because Jean sensed her thoughts, when Jean went after her about the affair, Emma went diamond to protect herself from the attack and Jean says "...do you honestly think you can protect yourself from this."

@LordOfAllHumans: Haha!

Actually when looking over the issue, Emma was in diamond form from start to finish, Jean had no problem tearing her mind apart.