#1 Posted by Deathspool (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma Frost vs Jean Grey (befire phoenix possesed her)
who would win out of these two telepaths 
i think Emma would win cause she could go into diamondform then jean couldnt access her mind thea emma finishes it off with a diamond uppercut, but tell me who u guys think 

#2 Posted by Flopsop200 (171 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma cant use her telepathy in her diamond form. If your saying she doesn't use her telepathy and just goes over to Jean and pummel's her, your forgetting Jean could toss Emma away with a thought via her Telekinesis.

In a pure battle of the minds Jean is superior to Emma.

#3 Posted by BMEZY (1211 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope! not only is Jean the superior telepath, but also her telekinesis would demolish Emma. Do your research little one :D:D

#4 Posted by THUNDERBOLT30 (10487 posts) - - Show Bio

@BMEZY said:

Nope! not only is Jean the superior telepath, but also her telekinesis would demolish Emma. Do your research little one :D:D

This.

#5 Posted by Phylos (2641 posts) - - Show Bio

Welcome to the Vine.

#6 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

Emma and Jean are both considered "omega-level" telepaths, but Jean is a true omega-level mutant. They're both powerful minds, but Jean simply outclasses. Along with having limitless potential.

#7 Posted by charlieboy (7160 posts) - - Show Bio

jean's tk is too much for emma.

#8 Posted by celestialbodies (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deathspool said:

Emma Frost vs Jean Grey (befire phoenix possesed her)who would win out of these two telepaths i think Emma would win cause she could go into diamondform then jean couldnt access her mind thea emma finishes it off with a diamond uppercut, but tell me who u guys think

Just so your aware in Diamond form Emma isn't immune to Telepathy, atleast not High level Psi's Jean, Xavier, and Martha Johansson have all used Telepathy on Emma while she was in diamond form. Also Jean put Emma back together after she was shattered and lifted 50 tons of debris off of her I think her Telekinesis would be more than enough to combat Emma's diamond form.

#9 Posted by fanofsuperheroes (215 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree, Jean is just too much for Emma to contend with. For the reasons stated above!

#10 Posted by YoungJustice (6841 posts) - - Show Bio

@fanofsuperheroes said:

I agree, Jean is just too much for Emma to contend with. For the reasons stated above!

Dont bump mismatches please.

#11 Posted by charlieboy (7160 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungJustice: isn't that what you just did?

#12 Posted by YoungJustice (6841 posts) - - Show Bio

@charlieboy said:

@YoungJustice: isn't that what you just did?

Not necessarily, if its still on the front page, im pretty sure it doesnt count as being bumped.

#13 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

JG.

#14 Posted by Dextersinister (6145 posts) - - Show Bio

@celestialbodies said:

@Deathspool said:

Emma Frost vs Jean Grey (befire phoenix possesed her)who would win out of these two telepaths i think Emma would win cause she could go into diamondform then jean couldnt access her mind thea emma finishes it off with a diamond uppercut, but tell me who u guys think

Just so your aware in Diamond form Emma isn't immune to Telepathy, atleast not High level Psi's Jean, Xavier, and Martha Johansson have all used Telepathy on Emma while she was in diamond form. Also Jean put Emma back together after she was shattered and lifted 50 tons of debris off of her I think her Telekinesis would be more than enough to combat Emma's diamond form.

Changes all the time from protection but can't use her telepathy, to vulnerability but can't use her telapathy, some writers have even had her use her telepathy when in diamond form. The most recent mention was complete immunity but no telepathy when Emma and Hope mimicking her powers where the only 2 characters immune to an incredibly powerful hive mind sinister who controlled the entire extinction team with ease.

#15 Posted by Vouile (678 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey

For the reasons stated below:

@Flopsop200 said:

Emma cant use her telepathy in her diamond form. If your saying she doesn't use her telepathy and just goes over to Jean and pummel's her, your forgetting Jean could toss Emma away with a thought via her Telekinesis.

In a pure battle of the minds Jean is superior to Emma.

@BMEZY said:

Nope! not only is Jean the superior telepath, but also her telekinesis would demolish Emma. Do your research little one :D:D

:D

@YoungJustice said:

@fanofsuperheroes said:

I agree, Jean is just too much for Emma to contend with. For the reasons stated above!

Dont bump mismatches please.

Agreed. ^-^

Vouile

#16 Posted by ghost_rider1 (3499 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean grey telekinesis will still beat emma even if she is immune to telepathy in diamond form. I honestly don't think she is fully immune to high level telepaths like jean grey and charles xavier. But her TK powers alone would be more than enough to handle emma on her best day

#17 Posted by Dextersinister (6145 posts) - - Show Bio

@ghost_rider1: It would be outright immunity to stop hive mind Sinister but I still think Jean wins.

#18 Posted by fanofsuperheroes (215 posts) - - Show Bio

If its a mismatch then someone should lock the thread. I will continue to put my 2 cents in on any battle that's not locked because out of the 1600 pages of battle, the first 5 pages are stupid battles so yea, I go back further to find good ones. I like Jean and Emma and so posted my comment and look, it re sparked the thread so go me.

#19 Posted by celestialbodies (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@Dextersinister said:

@ghost_rider1: It would be outright immunity to stop hive mind Sinister but I still think Jean wins.

Perhaps, but then again the Sinister Hive Mind was based on Cyke's brain patterns and as Emma said "I know your mind better than anyone", which is highly debatable but could easily be one of the reasons she's able to combat him in diamond form. But as I'd stated above because Jean has shown the ability to get around it she'd win as you stated. The battle would most likely start Telepathically which I believe Jean would win, while Emma is a bit more skilled than Jean, Jean is more powerful and the margin between Emma's skill and power vs Jean's skill and power isn't wide enough for Emma to beat Jean outright. But by the off chance that she would be able to force Jean into a situation like she did Exodus which I doubt given how many times Jean has been in Emma's mind Jean would be able to overpower her diamond form with Tk, probably even pull it apart seeing as she put it back together.

#20 Posted by YoungJustice (6841 posts) - - Show Bio

@fanofsuperheroes: Believe it or not, our moderators and staff have lives. They can't afford to be on all day. Hence, some threads are not locked immediately. Also, despite you wanting a good battle, this is an complete and utter mismatch, and on top of that, has been done. So if you want to bump threads, use the search function, and go to the oldest thread, and if not anything that breaks the rules, bump it, and please add something new to the thread, instead of just quoting, just saying the name of the person you think would win, or saying "For reasons already stated". Thank you for your time

#21 Posted by fanofsuperheroes (215 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungJustice: Its a month old battle, not years old that I have seen people bump so I'm not doing anything wrong with posting to this battle. I believe that Emma has had some serious power ups lately and she would give Jean some major trouble. She is extremely strong in her diamond form and can quite possibly handle Jeans TK while being immune to her TP. I agree that we need to know as to what extent her immunity to TP is to decide how that part of the battle goes though. Just because you think its a mismatch doesn't make it so. She took on Thor in her diamond form so I think she could possibly handle Jean's TK and with the endurance factor while in her diamond form she would outlast jean is a fight as well.

As for the search function maybe you should use it as well. The last one that was between ONLY these two women was 4 years ago which were two totally different characters then they are now.

I understand the mods and staff have lives and MAYBE that's why they haven't locked this thread but I have seen some battles locked in 2 days so........maybe they don't agree with you about this being a mismatch.

I 'bumped' this thread because I think its a good battle but after all Emma's power ups wanted to hear some other opinions on it before I posted a full post on it, which is now how the immune to TP comes to light for me.

Thank you for YOUR time.

#22 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey can still BFR Emma with her telekinesis.

#23 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4133 posts) - - Show Bio

@fanofsuperheroes said:

@YoungJustice: Its a month old battle, not years old that I have seen people bump so I'm not doing anything wrong with posting to this battle. I believe that Emma has had some serious power ups lately and she would give Jean some major trouble. She is extremely strong in her diamond form and can quite possibly handle Jeans TK while being immune to her TP. I agree that we need to know as to what extent her immunity to TP is to decide how that part of the battle goes though. Just because you think its a mismatch doesn't make it so. She took on Thor in her diamond form so I think she could possibly handle Jean's TK and with the endurance factor while in her diamond form she would outlast jean is a fight as well.

As for the search function maybe you should use it as well. The last one that was between ONLY these two women was 4 years ago which were two totally different characters then they are now.

I understand the mods and staff have lives and MAYBE that's why they haven't locked this thread but I have seen some battles locked in 2 days so........maybe they don't agree with you about this being a mismatch.

I 'bumped' this thread because I think its a good battle but after all Emma's power ups wanted to hear some other opinions on it before I posted a full post on it, which is now how the immune to TP comes to light for me.

Thank you for YOUR time.

Emma is not immune to Jeans telepathy as shown 3 times. Jean can manipulate at least 50 tons of matter so I don't see Emmas diamond form making a difference here either.

I believe somebody posted that Emma has a little more skill than Jean, also not true there are either evenly matched or Jean is just better as she can do things telepathically that both Xavier and Emma cannot. It was pretty much shown in the issue without words that Jean is the better telepath between the two of them when they entered Xaviers mind and Emma was stopped dead in her tracks at the first line of mental defense and Jean strolled through to the core of his mind to free him. Emma also says Jean Grey is the most talented psychic she has ever encountered.

#24 Posted by Bo88gdan (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Gray Ftw

#25 Posted by celestialbodies (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans:

As an avid Jean Grey fan I'm quite aware of what she's capable and based solely on feats Emma is a more skilled or has shown more skill in-comics than Jean, and that's nothing to be ashamed of Emma is one of the most impressive psi's skill-wise IMHO in all of comic-dom. Now does that mean she'll beat Jean one on one no because as I've stated unlike when Rachel engaged Emma the margin between their skill and power isn't so great that Emma could exploit Jean as she did Rachel. Jean will not be overpowered by Emma because she's faced her before and Emma's diamond form isn't doing anything to a woman who can move molecules with her mind Emma in recent years has been bumped up to be the X-men's head Psi but with Psylocke's and Rachel's return its being leveled out. And in a battle there's nothing Emma could do to Jean that Jean shouldn't be able to counter. Jean's only problem is until NXM she hadn't been written to the best of her Telepathic abilities but with the return of TeenJean hopefully that'll change.

#26 Posted by God_Spawn (37883 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean.

Moderator
#27 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (4133 posts) - - Show Bio

@celestialbodies said:

@LordOfAllHumans:

As an avid Jean Grey fan I'm quite aware of what she's capable and based solely on feats Emma is a more skilled or has shown more skill in-comics than Jean, and that's nothing to be ashamed of Emma is one of the most impressive psi's skill-wise IMHO in all of comic-dom. Now does that mean she'll beat Jean one on one no because as I've stated unlike when Rachel engaged Emma the margin between their skill and power isn't so great that Emma could exploit Jean as she did Rachel. Jean will not be overpowered by Emma because she's faced her before and Emma's diamond form isn't doing anything to a woman who can move molecules with her mind Emma in recent years has been bumped up to be the X-men's head Psi but with Psylocke's and Rachel's return its being leveled out. And in a battle there's nothing Emma could do to Jean that Jean shouldn't be able to counter. Jean's only problem is until NXM she hadn't been written to the best of her Telepathic abilities but with the return of TeenJean hopefully that'll change.

That does not mean she is more skilled and canon has always placed Jean above Emma in telepathy she was second most powerful and at one time the most powerful, that title comes from a combination of power and skill both of which surpasses Emma. Emmas primary power was telepathy so it's not strange that she would perform a host of telepathic feats, because for like 20 years that is all she could do, it's no secret that Emma has less scruples when it comes to using telepathy because she was a villian and not taught by Xavier to respect others minds the way Jean was and it is that fact the leads people to believe that Emma has more skill. There is an entire issue devoted to Jean and Emma walking through the mind of Xavier, and Emma didn't make it, while Jean strolled through. You admit that in a battle Jean can counter anything Emma can throw at her, that would take skill beyond Emma, as both Rachel and Nate have succumbed to Emmas telepathic skill and both of them are incredible powerful. Emma attempted to scan Nate and she was found out and tracked immediately even though he had no telepathy, Jean however was able to sneak up on him and Maddie (both with their telepathy) with ease. That is due to skill.

#28 Edited by celestialbodies (9 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@celestialbodies said:

@LordOfAllHumans:

As an avid Jean Grey fan I'm quite aware of what she's capable and based solely on feats Emma is a more skilled or has shown more skill in-comics than Jean, and that's nothing to be ashamed of Emma is one of the most impressive psi's skill-wise IMHO in all of comic-dom. Now does that mean she'll beat Jean one on one no because as I've stated unlike when Rachel engaged Emma the margin between their skill and power isn't so great that Emma could exploit Jean as she did Rachel. Jean will not be overpowered by Emma because she's faced her before and Emma's diamond form isn't doing anything to a woman who can move molecules with her mind Emma in recent years has been bumped up to be the X-men's head Psi but with Psylocke's and Rachel's return its being leveled out. And in a battle there's nothing Emma could do to Jean that Jean shouldn't be able to counter. Jean's only problem is until NXM she hadn't been written to the best of her Telepathic abilities but with the return of TeenJean hopefully that'll change.

That does not mean she is more skilled and canon has always placed Jean above Emma in telepathy she was second most powerful and at one time the most powerful, that title comes from a combination of power and skill both of which surpasses Emma. Emmas primary power was telepathy so it's not strange that she would perform a host of telepathic feats, because for like 20 years that is all she could do, it's no secret that Emma has less scruples when it comes to using telepathy because she was a villian and not taught by Xavier to respect others minds the way Jean was and it is that fact the leads people to believe that Emma has more skill. There is an entire issue devoted to Jean and Emma walking through the mind of Xavier, and Emma didn't make it, while Jean strolled through. You admit that in a battle Jean can counter anything Emma can throw at her, that would take skill beyond Emma, as both Rachel and Nate have succumbed to Emmas telepathic skill and both of them are incredible powerful. Emma attempted to scan Nate and she was found out and tracked immediately even though he had no telepathy, Jean however was able to sneak up on him and Maddie (both with their telepathy) with ease. That is due to skill.

See that's the thing more powerful doesn't mean more skilled, as I've stated in Tp Jean is no slouch but because of Emma's mentality she has had to do things with it that Jean hasn't and because its her primary power she can focus on it more so its no wonder she can do things that Jean hasn't not CAN"T but hasn't. The silent issue proves that Jean is skilled as a psi and that Emma is easily distracted and unable to move any further but it doesn't take away form all the forms of application of Tp that Emma has performed. And yes I said Jean can beat Emma one on one but that's because Emma's skill and power isn't large enought to defeat Jean and Jean has enough in her abilites to put Emma down but none of that changes that Emma as of right now has shown not implied but shown more skill than Jean and thats not debatable. What is, is whether Emma could defeat Jean which I doubt because as I've said the off chance Emma was able to force Jean into stalemate Tp-wise Jean's Tk is more than enough to put Emma down.

#29 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4133 posts) - - Show Bio

@celestialbodies said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@celestialbodies said:

@LordOfAllHumans:

As an avid Jean Grey fan I'm quite aware of what she's capable and based solely on feats Emma is a more skilled or has shown more skill in-comics than Jean, and that's nothing to be ashamed of Emma is one of the most impressive psi's skill-wise IMHO in all of comic-dom. Now does that mean she'll beat Jean one on one no because as I've stated unlike when Rachel engaged Emma the margin between their skill and power isn't so great that Emma could exploit Jean as she did Rachel. Jean will not be overpowered by Emma because she's faced her before and Emma's diamond form isn't doing anything to a woman who can move molecules with her mind Emma in recent years has been bumped up to be the X-men's head Psi but with Psylocke's and Rachel's return its being leveled out. And in a battle there's nothing Emma could do to Jean that Jean shouldn't be able to counter. Jean's only problem is until NXM she hadn't been written to the best of her Telepathic abilities but with the return of TeenJean hopefully that'll change.

That does not mean she is more skilled and canon has always placed Jean above Emma in telepathy she was second most powerful and at one time the most powerful, that title comes from a combination of power and skill both of which surpasses Emma. Emmas primary power was telepathy so it's not strange that she would perform a host of telepathic feats, because for like 20 years that is all she could do, it's no secret that Emma has less scruples when it comes to using telepathy because she was a villian and not taught by Xavier to respect others minds the way Jean was and it is that fact the leads people to believe that Emma has more skill. There is an entire issue devoted to Jean and Emma walking through the mind of Xavier, and Emma didn't make it, while Jean strolled through. You admit that in a battle Jean can counter anything Emma can throw at her, that would take skill beyond Emma, as both Rachel and Nate have succumbed to Emmas telepathic skill and both of them are incredible powerful. Emma attempted to scan Nate and she was found out and tracked immediately even though he had no telepathy, Jean however was able to sneak up on him and Maddie (both with their telepathy) with ease. That is due to skill.

See that's the thing more powerful doesn't mean more skilled, as I've stated in Tp Jean is no slouch but because of Emma's mentality she has had to do things with it that Jean hasn't and because its her primary power she can focus on it more so its no wonder she can do things that Jean hasn't not CAN"T but hasn't. The silent issue proves that Jean is skilled as a psi and that Emma is easily distracted and unable to move any further but it doesn't take away form all the forms of application of Tp that Emma has performed. And yes I said Jean can beat Emma one on one but that's because Emma's skill and power isn't large enought to defeat Jean and Jean has enough in her abilites to put Emma down but none of that changes that Emma as of right now has shown not implied but shown more skill than Jean and thats not debatable. What is, is whether Emma could defeat Jean which I doubt because as I've said the off chance Emma was able to force Jean into stalemate Tp-wise Jean's Tk is more than enough to put Emma down.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Emma there is no doubt that she is a very skilled telepath, but the point is and you seem to agree especially with mention of the silent issue that Jean is more skilled. She wasn't distracted she spent the entire time trying to fight her way out of that single defense, her being easily distracted also goes to the level of skill she shows when using her telepathy, even though I don't agree that she was distracted, there are no words in the book it showed her trapped and take the whole issue to get through. By the time she was done with that Jean had already found Xavier.

#30 Posted by Veitha (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

#31 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3190 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

emma had help from dust to defeat exodus

#32 Posted by crabtree (1623 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey wins.

#33 Posted by Veitha (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE said:

@Veitha said:

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

emma had help from dust to defeat exodus

Yes, but she stopped his TK alone. And pre Phoenix Jean's TK is less powerful than Exodus'. Emma has just to stop her TK and wait untill she get stressed and then she can mindrape Jean. And remember that Exoudus' TP is also stronger than Jean's so I don't even know if Emma has to wait until she get stressed or she can just beat her using TP

#34 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4133 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha:@Veitha said:

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE said:

@Veitha said:

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

emma had help from dust to defeat exodus

Yes, but she stopped his TK alone. And pre Phoenix Jean's TK is less powerful than Exodus'. Emma has just to stop her TK and wait untill she get stressed and then she can mindrape Jean. And remember that Exoudus' TP is also stronger than Jean's so I don't even know if Emma has to wait until she get stressed or she can just beat her using TP

Exodus when his powers have been stronger than Xavier and Jean was also benefiting from the boost he gets from those around him, like the Acolytes he is a psi leech and can increase his powers accordingly he had no such boost when he and Emma fought and she was not holding back his tk only keeping him engaged teleapthically so that he could not use them. It was also stated that his powers have been considerably weaker since the fall of Avalon, which is why we know that he is a psi leech, because it was stated when he went after Nate to feed off of his power. Jean has enough consistent showings of using both at high levels for that PIS not to work on her.

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

why do people insist that Jean had the Phoenix when she was fighting Emma about the affair? She had been using a Phoenix sig since OZT and during Revolution it was said that the fire bird were her own telepathic powers at their strongest and sharpest. It was explained when she came out of the sun that Wolverine unlocked the Phoenix consciousness, before then it was not unlocked so she wasn't Phoenix except in name. If Jean was Phoenix the whole time then she and Wolverine could have flown out of the asteroid and she said she couldn't fly in space. What Phoenix can't fly in space? She also said if she let the Phoenix get too close it would replace her, and she was keeping it away as to not become Phoenix. Jean was always powerful and admitted after OZT to Scott that she was always holding her powers back because she didn't want to upset him. When Xavier was most powerful teleapth on Earth Jean was second and Emma was never even mentioned to be in the running. Jean is and always has been a more powerful telepath than Emma Frost with an entire silent issue showing just that. When her telepathy was newly unlocked pre-Phoenix she was able to psi blast through Juggernauts helmet, yet Emma could not enter the minds of Penance or M (which caused her to be violently expelled when she tried).

I doubt Emma can do what she did to Exodus based on Jean using both powerful applications of telepathy and telekinesis when she was save a possessed Binary. non-Phoenix Jean created psychic constructs in the mind of Scott that Emma could not penetrate.

Then there is also the fact that Rachel is more powerful than Emma as stated on panel and that Jean is more powerful than Rachel.

#35 Posted by Veitha (3292 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Veitha:@Veitha said:

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE said:

@Veitha said:

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

emma had help from dust to defeat exodus

Yes, but she stopped his TK alone. And pre Phoenix Jean's TK is less powerful than Exodus'. Emma has just to stop her TK and wait untill she get stressed and then she can mindrape Jean. And remember that Exoudus' TP is also stronger than Jean's so I don't even know if Emma has to wait until she get stressed or she can just beat her using TP

Exodus when his powers have been stronger than Xavier and Jean was also benefiting from the boost he gets from those around him, like the Acolytes he is a psi leech and can increase his powers accordingly he had no such boost when he and Emma fought and she was not holding back his tk only keeping him engaged teleapthically so that he could not use them. It was also stated that his powers have been considerably weaker since the fall of Avalon, which is why we know that he is a psi leech, because it was stated when he went after Nate to feed off of his power. Jean has enough consistent showings of using both at high levels for that PIS not to work on her.

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

why do people insist that Jean had the Phoenix when she was fighting Emma about the affair? She had been using a Phoenix sig since OZT and during Revolution it was said that the fire bird were her own telepathic powers at their strongest and sharpest. It was explained when she came out of the sun that Wolverine unlocked the Phoenix consciousness, before then it was not unlocked so she wasn't Phoenix except in name. If Jean was Phoenix the whole time then she and Wolverine could have flown out of the asteroid and she said she couldn't fly in space. What Phoenix can't fly in space? She also said if she let the Phoenix get too close it would replace her, and she was keeping it away as to not become Phoenix. Jean was always powerful and admitted after OZT to Scott that she was always holding her powers back because she didn't want to upset him. When Xavier was most powerful teleapth on Earth Jean was second and Emma was never even mentioned to be in the running. Jean is and always has been a more powerful telepath than Emma Frost with an entire silent issue showing just that. When her telepathy was newly unlocked pre-Phoenix she was able to psi blast through Juggernauts helmet, yet Emma could not enter the minds of Penance or M (which caused her to be violently expelled when she tried).

I doubt Emma can do what she did to Exodus based on Jean using both powerful applications of telepathy and telekinesis when she was save a possessed Binary. non-Phoenix Jean created psychic constructs in the mind of Scott that Emma could not penetrate.

Then there is also the fact that Rachel is more powerful than Emma as stated on panel and that Jean is more powerful than Rachel.

That wasn't PIS. Emma has used her TP to engage him telepathically and inhibite his TK. This isn't PIS, it's tactic.

When Jean fought Emma about the affair she had just restored her connection to the Phoenix Force: a few issue before the fight she had a discussion with Charles and the Phoenix took control over her. And just before the battle she said something like "Let's talk, Emma. Me, you and the Phoenix" while the fire raptore appeared behind her.

Pre-Phoenix Jean Grey means Pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean Grey, and the White Queen has got better telepathic feats than she had those times. She can use her TP to stop her TK and then harm her. I don't know if Rachel is stronger than Emma - I don't think so, since during the last few years Emma has become stronger and has got better telepathic feats, without and with the Pheonix Force, too - but this Jean has got less skills than Emma, so Emma can beat her.

#36 Edited by LordOfAllHumans (4133 posts) - - Show Bio

@Veitha said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@Veitha:@Veitha said:

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE said:

@Veitha said:

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

emma had help from dust to defeat exodus

Yes, but she stopped his TK alone. And pre Phoenix Jean's TK is less powerful than Exodus'. Emma has just to stop her TK and wait untill she get stressed and then she can mindrape Jean. And remember that Exoudus' TP is also stronger than Jean's so I don't even know if Emma has to wait until she get stressed or she can just beat her using TP

Exodus when his powers have been stronger than Xavier and Jean was also benefiting from the boost he gets from those around him, like the Acolytes he is a psi leech and can increase his powers accordingly he had no such boost when he and Emma fought and she was not holding back his tk only keeping him engaged teleapthically so that he could not use them. It was also stated that his powers have been considerably weaker since the fall of Avalon, which is why we know that he is a psi leech, because it was stated when he went after Nate to feed off of his power. Jean has enough consistent showings of using both at high levels for that PIS not to work on her.

Both the times Emma has lost to Jean, Jean had the Phoenix Force. If this is pre-Phoenix Force Jean - so also pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean - I think that Emma can easily win: Jean wasn't so powerful those days, and she can stop Jean's telekinesis like she's done with Exodus.

why do people insist that Jean had the Phoenix when she was fighting Emma about the affair? She had been using a Phoenix sig since OZT and during Revolution it was said that the fire bird were her own telepathic powers at their strongest and sharpest. It was explained when she came out of the sun that Wolverine unlocked the Phoenix consciousness, before then it was not unlocked so she wasn't Phoenix except in name. If Jean was Phoenix the whole time then she and Wolverine could have flown out of the asteroid and she said she couldn't fly in space. What Phoenix can't fly in space? She also said if she let the Phoenix get too close it would replace her, and she was keeping it away as to not become Phoenix. Jean was always powerful and admitted after OZT to Scott that she was always holding her powers back because she didn't want to upset him. When Xavier was most powerful teleapth on Earth Jean was second and Emma was never even mentioned to be in the running. Jean is and always has been a more powerful telepath than Emma Frost with an entire silent issue showing just that. When her telepathy was newly unlocked pre-Phoenix she was able to psi blast through Juggernauts helmet, yet Emma could not enter the minds of Penance or M (which caused her to be violently expelled when she tried).

I doubt Emma can do what she did to Exodus based on Jean using both powerful applications of telepathy and telekinesis when she was save a possessed Binary. non-Phoenix Jean created psychic constructs in the mind of Scott that Emma could not penetrate.

Then there is also the fact that Rachel is more powerful than Emma as stated on panel and that Jean is more powerful than Rachel.

That wasn't PIS. Emma has used her TP to engage him telepathically and inhibite his TK. This isn't PIS, it's tactic.

When Jean fought Emma about the affair she had just restored her connection to the Phoenix Force: a few issue before the fight she had a discussion with Charles and the Phoenix took control over her. And just before the battle she said something like "Let's talk, Emma. Me, you and the Phoenix" while the fire raptore appeared behind her.

Pre-Phoenix Jean Grey means Pre-Dark Phoenix Saga Jean Grey, and the White Queen has got better telepathic feats than she had those times. She can use her TP to stop her TK and then harm her. I don't know if Rachel is stronger than Emma - I don't think so, since during the last few years Emma has become stronger and has got better telepathic feats, without and with the Pheonix Force, too - but this Jean has got less skills than Emma, so Emma can beat her.

It would be PIS if used against Jean because there have not been instances of her not being able to access one power because the other was engaged. It's PIS because he has locked minds with Xavier and still been able to use powerful applications of his TK, same with him and Sersi fighting. And since you consider him to be more powerful than Xavier and Jean then what Emma did by your own comment is PIS.

That was the consciousness that she was not getting close to, and Xavier asked if he could speak to it, so Jean let him. She was channeling no Phoenix power. I knew you would bring up her saying you me and Phoenix without taking into consideration the context being used. She also said she wouldn't throw big bolts of psychic lightning at her this time, it was Phoenix not Jean that threw those bolts years ago, she was trying to make Emma relive the fear of the battle with Green Phoenix.

Pre-Phoenix is Jean depending on what you consider pre Phoenix, now if it is Marvel Girl she is still a more powerful telepath due to her ability to penetrate Juggernauts mind through his helmet, one psi blast and Emma is down. Considering Emma is given her diamond form in this battle then we could also be talking about Jean pre-Phoenix before the sun. And yes Rachel is more powerful mentioned when she beat Rachel due to skill only and not power. Jean is also not without skill even it was Marvel Girl as Xavier had been training her since her powers first manifested and even after locking them up still had controlled training sessions with her, which is why when the power was unlocked she was no novice at using them and quickly on panel became his only rival.

So however you want to spin it, Emma is not winning against Jean, because she is more powerful and better trained from the onset of her mutation unlike Emma who learned a few tricks from an even weaker telepath than herself.

#37 Posted by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3190 posts) - - Show Bio

@LordOfAllHumans:thank you thats a load off my mind :)