Emma Frost and Cyclops VS. Storm and Black Panther

"Yes I did, first with a bolt of lightening. Second with her mastery of the winds. "

"StormAmazonPheonix said:

"Yes I did, first with a bolt of lightening. Second with her mastery of the winds. "

So your telling me Storm deflecting Cyclop's eye blast with Wind isn't PIS? LMAO this is priceless.  Shadow King controling Cyclops when this happens completely undermines any legitimacy this fight has. Shadow King isnt a tactical genius, he has no way of using Cyclop
's ability as well as Cyclops himself. Apparently in your scenario Emma and Cyclops stand around while Storm does her thing, which is cute, but unrealistic. You act as if Storm beating the X-Men is something Cyclops hasn't done on the regular.
How is snatching the air from Emma's lungs going to do anything? You do know she doesn't have to breath
in diamond form right? Looks like I'll have a study buddy huh ;)

What happened in the X-Men comics are nice to Help build your case, but if its all you have then its
easily shattered. Its called story. It happens all the time. A character is written a certain way in order to create a
good story. Emma lost to Storm in the comics simply because she was written to. Had the story depended on Emma winning, then it would have been written that way. Storm's mind is resistant to having her mind taking over or manipulated. But as Emma has shown on several occasions, it isn't protected against mental blasts. And dont forget Cyclops, who could basically clear the field with one blast. If Storm cant summon enough wind to save BP's jet from crashing, I dont see how she can summon
enough wind to deflect Cyclops' blast.

In the end Emma solos, and Cyk is just here for show.







"

That's a nice rundown on what Storm's high end feats are. But you act as if Cyclops and Emma's powers arent instantaneously achieved as well. Storm deflecting Cyclop's energy blast is nothing short of silly. I'd also like to see the size of the blast. You may wanna dismiss Hudlin but its the current incarnation of Storm and thus, in  my opinion, a viable one.

 You may wanna dismiss Hudlin but its the current incarnation of Storm

"Gambler said:

 You may wanna dismiss Hudlin but its the current incarnation of Storm

So was World's Apart.


"

"White Mage said:

"Gambler said:

 You may wanna dismiss Hudlin but its the current incarnation of Storm

So was World's Apart.


"

Agreed. But the difference is that Shadow King was controlling Cyclops correct?
"

"That's a nice rundown on what Storm's high end feats are. But you act as if Cyclops and Emma's powers arent instantaneously achieved as well. "

"StormAmazonPheonix said:

"Yes I did, first with a bolt of lightening. Second with her mastery of the winds. "

So your telling me Storm deflecting Cyclop's eye blast with Wind isn't PIS? LMAO this is priceless.  Shadow King controling Cyclops when this happens completely undermines any legitimacy this fight has. Shadow King isnt a tactical genius, he has no way of using Cyclop's ability as well as Cyclops himself. Apparently in your scenario Emma and Cyclops stand around while Storm does her thing, which is cute, but unrealistic. You act as if Storm beating the X-Men is something Cyclops hasn't done on the regular.
How is snatching the air from Emma's lungs going to do anything? You do know she doesn't have to breath
in diamond form right? Looks like I'll have a study buddy huh ;)

What happened in the X-Men comics are nice to Help build your case, but if its all you have then its
easily shattered. Its called story. It happens all the time. A character is written a certain way in order to create a
good story. Emma lost to Storm in the comics simply because she was written to. Had the story depended on Emma winning, then it would have been written that way. Storm's mind is resistant to having her mind taking over or manipulated. But as Emma has shown on several occasions, it isn't protected against mental blasts. And dont forget Cyclops, who could basically clear the field with one blast. If Storm cant summon enough wind to save BP's jet from crashing, I dont see how she can summon
enough wind to deflect Cyclops' blast.

In the end Emma solos, and Cyk is just here for show.







"

"That's a nice rundown on what Storm's high end feats are. But you act as if Cyclops and Emma's powers arent instantaneously achieved as well. Storm deflecting Cyclop's energy blast is nothing short of silly. I'd also like to see the size of the blast. You may wanna dismiss Hudlin but its the current incarnation of Storm and thus, in  my opinion, a viable one.
"

if the fight starts from far away storm takes it -_-

If the fight starts close up T'Challa & Ororo takes it. T'roro FTW!

I think either cyclops or Emma could solo it. Both can attack and kill faster than the other two.

"I think either cyclops or Emma could solo it. Both can attack and kill faster than the other two.
"

"I think either cyclops or Emma could solo it. Both can attack and kill faster than the other two.
"

"AtPhantom said:

"I think either cyclops or Emma could solo it. Both can attack and kill faster than the other two.
"

Emma = thought

Storm = thought
"

I was gonna say that, but this specific argument doesn't work against White Mage. xD

If you're lucky, you'll get to see his scans.

"White Mage said:

"AtPhantom said:

"I think either cyclops or Emma could solo it. Both can attack and kill faster than the other two.
"

Emma = thought

Storm = thought
"

Yeah, but Emma's telepathy happens faster than a lightning or wind, at least IMO.
"

"I was gonna say that, but this specific argument doesn't work against White Mage. xD

If you're lucky, you'll get to see his scans.
"

"AtPhantom said:

"White Mage said:

"AtPhantom said:

"I think either cyclops or Emma could solo it. Both can attack and kill faster than the other two.
"

Emma = thought

Storm = thought
"

Yeah, but Emma's telepathy happens faster than a lightning or wind, at least IMO.
"

Gloom said:

"I was gonna say that, but this specific argument doesn't work against White Mage. xD

If you're lucky, you'll get to see his scans.
"

LOL You know me too well sweetie.

Ok, here's the deal.  I have already (in previous threads) said that Storm is a type of psychic.  She can "read" the earth, mentally shape the energy patterns which govern weather via psychic commands, and is a very strong empath as far as nature is concerned.  Her being able to sense a dying tree, literally talking to plants, and sensing the incorrect movements of a hurricane show some of how sensitive she is.  Why is that?  Because her mind is linked to the earth ALL the time.  Her mental abilities are the reason why she has been able to do things in "the blink of an eye", "less than a concious thought", and "with a thought".  When she uses her powers at a normal level, she is "thinking".  This is also why weather instantly changes depending on her actual mood.  Now, not to sound bitchy or anything, but I have pretty much spent at least 3 posts telling people that her powers work with thought, and weather forms with thought.  If anyone still finds her "thinking" ability to be slower than Emma's "thinking" ability, I have to ask that you name.  Not that I believe anyone is making anything up, but I honestly have never seen Emma do anything with such speed that would make me outright say that she is faster than Storm.  If anything, I'd say that they are at LEAST equal with their speed of thought.  ALSO, even if by some chance Emma gets a shot at Storm, it will take MORE than that to actually down her.  You guys remember that scan that I have repatedly spoken about, where Storm withstood a psychic attack from Oracle, Professor X, and Psylocke?  Well, they were being FORCED to use their abilities against the X-Men.  The guy who was making them do it said he had no doubt that Storm would overcome it, which is why he sent Deathbird to kill her.........she withstood shadow king when she was in adolescent form too.  Later on, even HE could not track her down, and she was a kid.  I haven't even begun to speak of just how unnatural her powers are.  The fact that she has battled telekinesis with wind is something that many people don't even think about.  The fact that she used winds to form a dome that deflected falling, big ass boulders is something that people don't think about either.  The fact that she fought off Polaris with lightning on one fight, and countered her magnetic abilities with wind in another one, is something that still gets overlooked.  Creating pressure higher than Jupiter in a concentrated area so that a bomb would not go off is yet another feat......for crying out loud, she picked up a building with her winds.  In my opinion, because of the nature of her powers (that is extreme psychic abilities) Storm's winds are on a level that is = to telekinesis, and lord knows she uses them with the same kind of speed= thought.  Again, if anyone still feels that Storm is not as fast as Emma, name.  If you need something like a scan or quote or citation from me, let me know, and I'll see what I can do. 
"

storm solos

I'll go E n C. Scott can tag Storm, and Emma can MR Black Panther.

@Andferne said:

Emma and Scott for the win here.

3 years later and still backing the same team.

Emma Frost and Scott Summers.

gonna have 2 disrespectfully disagree with all those stating that Scemma would win :-/

This, to a good degree, is a quickdraw, but I think Storm and classic BP would win a majority due to Storm, who could potentially solo. She has already outdrawn Cyclops at point blank range and her powers work at the speed of thought, same as Emma's, she can hit Cyclops and Emma at the same time (BP could do the same with his energy daggers), and can defend against both Emma and Cyclop's attacks. Emma's psi-bolts could be a problem but that depends on who hits who first, and Storm's electrical fields have scrambled incoming psionic energy, and Emma doesn't typically employ this tactic immediately in combat.

The Storm and Black Panther I believe =)

@THUNDERBOLT30: Psi-bolts may not be a normal tactic used over all, but Emma knows full well of Storm's defenses. I'd say she could very well use them for a majority in conjunction with the few wins Scott can get on her. Both Scott and Storm have the ability to one shot each other at the start.

@god_spawn: Storm knows Emma as well too though. From a battle tactics perspective, Storm would look to neutralize her TP right at the start of the battle. Who could nail ther other hard enough first is the main question. I think Storm would land the first strike on team 2 the majority of the time, but that could be debatable, considering that her and Emma's TP operate at pretty much the same speed.

@THUNDERBOLT30: I'm on the other side of the fence. I think Emma can get a quickdraw on Storm for a few wins and I think Scott can quick draw Storm as well for a few wins. Both people on team 1 have a chance to quick draw Storm while BP is, for the most part, almost useless since he can easily be telepathically assaulted and I wouldn't put it past Cyclops to be able to overload the suit. So to me it's a 2 vs 1 kind of thing and while Storm just falls short of the necessary wins to get the majority.

@god_spawn said:

@THUNDERBOLT30: I'm on the other side of the fence. I think Emma can get a quickdraw on Storm for a few wins and I think Scott can quick draw Storm as well for a few wins. Both people on team 1 have a chance to quick draw Storm while BP is, for the most part, almost useless since he can easily be telepathically assaulted and I wouldn't put it past Cyclops to be able to overload the suit. So to me it's a 2 vs 1 kind of thing and while Storm just falls short of the necessary wins to get the majority.

Agreed on BP, but that's still debatable to a degree. His reaction speed is still peak human and his energy daggers could one-shot either of them (if Emma's isn't already diamond). I haven't seen anything to show that Emma or Storm could outdraw each other, but due to Storm's TP defenses, I lean toward her for a successful majority first strike than Emma. And Storm has out drawn Cyclops. not stating he couldn't out draw her, but I think she would do so the majority of the time. Even with that bs retcon that's thankfully never used :-) (yes I am still bitter about it lol), she dodged his blasts repeatedly without powers, and easily countered his attacks at point blank range twice. And on a 2 vs 1 scenario, Storm can still simultaneously KO the both of them at the same speed, with only Emma being physical able to withstand it if she can go diamond, but I defnitely think there are chances on both sides for the quickdraw.

@THUNDERBOLT30: I still don't believe Storm should really be able to dodge his blasts and Worlds Apart doesn't sit well with me either. As it stands I know we are both pretty adamant in our decisions and agree this fight comes down to a quick draw just differing opinions.

@god_spawn: Fair enough.

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

His reaction speed is still peak human and his energy daggers could one-shot either of them (if Emma's isn't already diamond).

Her diamond form will not save her. The energy daggers have shown to phase through adamantium.

@god_spawn said:

@THUNDERBOLT30: I still don't believe Storm should really be able to dodge his blasts and Worlds Apart doesn't sit well with me either.

Why not? He's blasts have been dodged before by other less powerful characters (Spider-Man, Nightcrawler, Bullseye, the list goes on). There was even a time Storm dodged them without using her powers.

@Static Shock: Cause Storm is Olympic level at best in terms of reflexes and that I'm not even sure of. Spider-Man is superhuman in agility, reflexes and has spider-sense, Bullseye in Dark Avengers vs X-men had ample distance and I think could easily have dodged Cyclops aim reversing a throwing process and NightCrawler does have enhanced agility and reflexes IIRC. Gambit has dodged them, Daredevil has dodged them but he had to completely focus himself and probably heard the visor open and then dodged his aim. Wolverine has dodged them, yeah there is a big list but most of those people are above Storm in terms of agility and reflexes. Cyclops on the other end has tagged people that do have enhanced speed, speed, agility and reflexes and some even have super human speed. Storm is below majority of the list. The only reason I would actually give Storm the benefit of the doubt is that she knows Cykes so well she can dodge his aim.

Also BP's energy daggers affect the nervous system right? I actually question the effect of that on Emma's diamond form.

@god_spawn: Understood on the majority of the characters he has tagged being above Storm reaction time, but Storm has fought multiple opponents in h2h who's reaction speed is above both her and Cyclops (Callisto (enhanced), Crimson Commando (peak), Marrow (enhanced), and just recently Nighteyes (vampiric reflexes) ), and she has consistently countered or evaded their attacks, and she has also managed to tag Quicksilver when he was moving at superhuman speed.

@Static Shock: Thanks. I did not know his daggers could go through adamantium.

@god_spawn said:

The only reason I would actually give Storm the benefit of the doubt is that she knows Cykes so well she can dodge his aim.

Well, there was a scan of T'Challa exploiting the mechanism in Cyclops' visor floating around. I had it, but I don't remember what I did with it.

@god_spawn said:

Also BP's energy daggers affect the nervous system right? I actually question the effect of that on Emma's diamond form.

Yes. The diamond form would have to be insignificant. Even in her diamond, she still has to breathe. Her heart still beats. Her internal organs would still have to be intact. What I'm saying is that the diamond form would only have to extend to her skin tissue and no further than that.

If the energy daggers can phase through adamantium, the diamond form will not save her.

@THUNDERBOLT30 said:

@Static Shock: Thanks. I did not know his daggers could go through adamantium.

You're welcome

@THUNDERBOLT30: Storm was also more skilled than those people IIRC. Which in comics tends to help with some minor speed advantages. Like I said it doesn't sit well with me and World's Apart didn't, I don;t see how wind can bend an optic blast, but that's just me. I will acknowledge that it's arguable Storm being skilled and knowing Cyclops very well since they have been on a team for years that she can dodge him in certain instances, but not as much as she does. The same case can be made for Wolverine, Gambit etc. People who knows Cyke's well enough to dodge. Wolverine has dodged his optic blasts before on a few occasions, but has been tagged on a consistent basis as well despite being vastly more skilled and actually having enhanced to low level superhuman speed/agility and reflexes/ over Storm. I stand by that people dodge his aim, not necessarily his blasts. It's been stated that the servos in his motors are considerably slower than his beams, and he himself is Olympic level at best, probably a notch or two lower. But that's open to interpretation and comes down to writers too. Cyke's blasts don't make sense, they can ricochet off a dozen objects before people can react and still smash its intended target.

@Static Shock: Actually she doesn't need to breathe, sleep, eat or drink in diamond form, she's like Colossus in that manner. I had this debate with a user yesterday, I'll get my post. It's based on Psylocke's psi-blades, but they fry the nervous system too so similar concept. And it is said in the handbook she is immortal, unlike Colossus though, she doesn't bleed anything like Colossus bleeds energy in his metal form when cut open.

My assumption is based on Psylocke's blades being that they fry the nervous system and affect the mind if I'm not mistaken, which can just stun or kill depending on the ferocity. Emma IS immortal in her diamond form, she doesn't eat drink, breathe, sleep, or tire in diamond form. When her arm was cut off in diamond form, she didn't have some kind of diamond blood or energy like Colossus does in armored form and since that is Emma's only shattered instance while still being "alive" we have to go off that. In her complete shatter instance, I believe Jean found her conscience even though she had no physical body and then pieced her together IIRC. so if I remembered correctly, it seems like she doesn't need to have a brain in that form for her consciousness to exist. Kind of like a weird golem/homonculi effect. So IMO, the blade does nothing upon contact of her body due to the immunity stopping any psychic, mind altering attack, or it does go into her but does nothing to her body since it seems void of all necessary functions to function.

@god_spawn: I stand corrected.

Emma uses mind control to become as good as a fighter as Black panther. Then really cyclops could take on storm because of her recklessness and ego, unlike cyclops being a little more smart. If not then emma just mind rapes both of them. (sorry for revive of old thread)

@okperson: wrong. Emma mind controlling BP could be debatable. I think he has a resistance showing against her TP.

While I think he is a superior strategist and tactician Storm is also accomplished in these areas. Also not to mention the fact that she has already beaten both Cyclops and Emma before, and has TP resistance feats that includes overcoming Emma and superior telepaths.

Ok. But I still think that team one will win, but not a stomp

@okperson: its cool. I respect your opinion. Its just that what transpired on panel supports team 2 winning more often than not. Cheers

A few things after reading this thread

1) Storm didn't deflect Cyclops optic blast with winds, she used a lightning bolt.

2) Storm resisted the combined mental powers of Professor X, Psylocke and Oracle at the same time.

3) I'm not a huge Black Panther fan but I would assume he has some form of Telepathic shielding.

4) I would love to see this debate if we gave both sides prep.

@lordoffate: Storm deflected his beams with winds in Worlds Apart, and I don't believe it was PIS considering she's used her winds to block other beam attacks in the past: Polaris' force beams, Sienna's energy explosion, Arcade's small scale nuke with her Jovian pressure field and a beam from the Cerebro construct in "The hunt for Xavier".

But I agree with everything else. T'Challa has formidable resistance(showcased against Shadow King and Psychoman), although not at the level of Storm. Emma would likely be a problem for him if Storm doesn't keep her busy(which she will), but I think his mind is powerful enough to resist her control. At least long enough for Storm to help him.