Eminence of Blades Vs Captain America

Rules

-They aren't familiar each other

-Current Captain America,Current Eminence of Blades (logically,doesn't exist other)

-2 hours to prep

-Captain America has his shield,Eminance has two blades

-No aditional help

-Morals off,Bloodlust

-Wins by incapacitation

Location: Warrior's

According to eminence of blades comicvine page he has gone toe to toe with midnighter...Assuming he did well against midnighter cap isn't winning.

what else?

Cap because its my biased opinion

No one want comment?

Eminence of Blades went toe to toe with the New-52 Midnighter who still doesn't have that much feats and hasn't shown anything that special,so I say Cap.

@TDK_1997: @TDK_1997: Sorry,but Midnighter has a lot of feats http://www.comicvine.com/midnighter/29-2196/new-52-midnighter-respect-thread/92-684755/

@Morpheus_: Yeah,but he was capable fool midnighter abilities and the Scourge of Worlds. Probably he has a kind of energy power

@Morpheus_: Yeah,but he was capable fool midnighter abilities and the Scourge of Worlds. Probably he has a kind of energy power

I don't know who wins, but Eminence of Blades sounds AWESOME.

what else?

@texasdeathmatch: I've been resisting the urge to comment because I'm unfamiliar with Captain A's feats...but yes, Harry Tanner is awesome so far.

@jashro44 said:

According to eminence of blades comicvine page he has gone toe to toe with midnighter...Assuming he did well against midnighter cap isn't winning.

He didn't do well against Midnighter, he was getting his ass kicked until he started using some kind of power that made his eyes and swords glow, and then he managed to nick Midnighter. He doesn't have the showings to justify a win over Cap.

@matchesmalone21 said:

@TDK_1997: @TDK_1997: Sorry,but Midnighter has a lot of feats http://www.comicvine.com/midnighter/29-2196/new-52-midnighter-respect-thread/92-684755/

He has some feats but not as much as Pre-52 where he had a lot of good showings.And his fight with the Eminence of Blades wasn't anything special.So Cap still wins.

He's the best swordsman the world had ever seen, he wins.

I wouldn't say that he has the showings to beat Cap, tbh

@vertigo-: Nicking Midnighter and being the best swordsman in the DCU (direct quote) should be good enough to net him the win.

@inside: Why?

@vertigo-: Midnighter regularly wins against superpowered beings. Captain America is a street-leveler and these guys are just plain above that.

Edit: Let me get into it a bit more.

It's clear that Captain America is capable of trading blows with much higher beings... for a bit. But at the end of the day he's still in the same tier as Batman and DareDevil, street level.

Midnighter and Eminence of Blades are above that level.

Just think about what being "the best in history" with swords means. It means he's above people in pure skill like Wonder Woman, Batman, Ra's Al Ghul, Katana, Azrael, freaking DEATHSTROKE, pretty much everyone you can think of, he knows how to use his blade BETTER then they do. Which is impressive because all of those people are very skilled with a blade. There's also no real guarantee that Eminence of Blades can't power up to the level he used to tag Midnighter either, we don't know if he can only use it for a second or if he can use it for an entire fight. If he can use it for an entire fight, that means that Captain America is royally screwed. If he can't, thats still something, because it means he's still at a level where he's more skilled then Deathstroke. No, not AS skilled, MORE skilled. Thats a lot to deal with right there alone, if Cap wins he's going to have plenty of wounds and scars, but I can't really think of a way he can win. He also absorbed the Scourge which means his intellect is insane.

@inside:

It's clear that Captain America is capable of trading blows with much higher beings... for a bit. But at the end of the day he's still in the same tier as Batman and DareDevil, street level.

Midnighter and Eminence of Blades are above that level.

So, where exactly is the proof that Harry Tanner is above this same level? Heck, by your standard, you cannot place Harry at that level, as he never traded blows with Midnighter whatsoever. In fact, Midnighter was toying with him. Here is their fight from Stormwatch vol 3 issue 5:

Gallery

Tanner had to resort to using some kind of weird power to land a single blow on Midnighter. He surprised him. Nothing more. And given that Stormwatch Midnighter never had his battle computer, merely a low level predictive ability (by his own words), this isn't exactly mind blowing.

Just think about what being "the best in history" with swords means. It means he's above people in pure skill like Wonder Woman, Batman, Ra's Al Ghul, Katana, Azrael, freaking DEATHSTROKE, pretty much everyone you can think of, he knows how to use his blade BETTER then they do. Which is impressive because all of those people are very skilled with a blade. There's also no real guarantee that Eminence of Blades can't power up to the level he used to tag Midnighter either, we don't know if he can only use it for a second or if he can use it for an entire fight. If he can use it for an entire fight, that means that Captain America is royally screwed. If he can't, thats still something, because it means he's still at a level where he's more skilled then Deathstroke. No, not AS skilled, MORE skilled. Thats a lot to deal with right there alone, if Cap wins he's going to have plenty of wounds and scars, but I can't really think of a way he can win.

Now this is a very very big claim that demands some sort of proof to back this up. I'm sure you can provide clear cut on panel feats that demonstrate that Harry is a better fighter then all of these people. For example, beating someone massively skilled?

@vertigo-: So Midnighter kicking him means he was winning the fight? Tf? They both landed one blow, and Harry's seemed a lot more damaging, Harry wasn't phased by the kick seemingly (though it was definitely hard hit and probably caused some pain), and then Midnighter's head snaps back after being attacked with the blade and he's "kicking Harry's ass". Being "surprising" is literally one of his powers, he's the prince of lies, aside from being a master swordsmen he's an expert trickster and deceiver.

...And about the "surprising", you're telling me he didn't see the Blade clearly behind Eminence, right there in front of his face? He's practically looking at it.

Furthermore, thats not the only time he's claimed as the "best swordsman in history". IIRC that claim is also in the "All-New" DC Encyclopedia for him.

@inside:

So Midnighter kicking him means he was winning the fight? Tf? They both landed one blow, and Harry's seemed a lot more damaging, Harry wasn't phased by the kick seemingly, and then Midnighter's head snaps back after being attacked with the blade and he's "kicking Harry's ass".

I never said that Midnighter was winning the fight, only that he was toying with Tanner, while also landing a blow. Tanner, meanwhile had to resort to some sort of unknown ability to land a blow. This is all clearly shown on panel

Being "surprising" is literally one of his powers, he's the prince of lies, aside from being a master swordsmen he's an expert trickster and deceiver.

That's great, but none of this points to any sort of combat utilization

Furthermore, thats not the only time he's claimed as the "best swordsman in history". IIRC that claim is also in the "All-New" DC Encyclopedia for him.

Again, that's great. But you said:

Just think about what being "the best in history" with swords means. It means he's above people in pure skill like Wonder Woman, Batman, Ra's Al Ghul, Katana, Azrael, freaking DEATHSTROKE, pretty much everyone you can think of, he knows how to use his blade BETTER then they do

Yet he has the single fight within his character history, in which he got toyed with by Midnighter. He has no feats to actually back up this statement. Much less anything supporting him being a better fighter then someone like Katana or Deathstroke, or all the other fighters you claim that he is better then. Keep in mind that I myself, have multiple statements of Tanner being referred to as the greatest swordsmen in history (Stormwatch vol 3 issue 2, issue 3), or even a master swordsmen (Stormwatch vol 3 issue 1) in my scan collection, no need to reference an encyclopedia. I'll grant you that he's good, but to say that he's better then x, y or z demands a comparison of feats

@vertigo-: (Apologies, I'm not that great at responding quote for quote, haha.)

I respectfully disagree that you need feats for a character with a few appearances to be better then a character with thousands if it's cemented in the lore of DC that he's more skilled then anyone in the DC Universe has ever seen. It's like a star wars encyclopedia coming out and saying "so and so is the best lightsaber duelist in history", you can't just say "Well I don't agree with that because he doesn't have many feats", you CAN'T be skeptical at that point because it's outright stated. If he's "the best in history" by default, he would absolutely have to be better then everyone else in history, which would include all aforementioned people. If it were only stated once by him and him alone, I could totally buy that and I'd concede my point right now. It doesn't necessarily mean he'd beat Deathstroke or so-and-so every single time, it just means he's naturally more skilled then them with a blade.

We also have to keep in mind that neither was trying to kill the other, and if they were Eminence definitely came a lot closer, you can't take too many shots like that against someone with an energy blade.

I'm sorry but it's a very hard sell to say he was just "surprised and caught off-guard", when he was facing Eminence and nearly looking directly at the other blade while BLOCKING the first one. Even if he was, based on what we see, it looked like a clean blow. There's 2 things that might've happened: Eminence used his special trickery power or whatever to make him think one thing was gonna happen but he ended up doing the other, or he just straight up caught him across the face and there's no more bs to it. I'm leaning towards the former.

@inside:

I respectfully disagree that you need feats for a character with a few appearances to be better then a character with thousands if it's cemented in the lore of DC that he's more skilled then anyone in the DC Universe has ever seen. It's like a star wars encyclopedia coming out and saying "so and so is the best lightsaber duelist in history", you can't just say "Well I don't agree with that because he doesn't have many feats", you CAN'T be skeptical at that point because it's outright stated. If he's "the best in history" by default, he would absolutely have to be better then everyone else in history, which would include all aforementioned people. If it were only stated once by him and him alone, I could totally buy that and I'd concede my point right now. It doesn't necessarily mean he'd beat Deathstroke or so-and-so every single time, it just means he's naturally more skilled then them with a blade.

The issue is, it's not cemented in DC's lore, when you have no other writer acknowledging this, and nothing else showing this to be true. "Best in history" is a massive statement, and to just assume that he's better then every other swordsmen in DC is a massive reach IMO. The Star Wars reference is neither here nor there in regards to this debate.

We also have to keep in mind that neither was trying to kill the other, and if they were Eminence definitely came a lot closer, you can't take too many shots like that against someone with an energy blade.

Tanner himself disagrees with your notion of him not trying to kill Midnighter:

Meanwhile, there's no proof that Midnighter was trying to kill Tanner.

I'm sorry but it's a very hard sell to say he was just "surprised and caught off-guard", when he was facing Eminence and nearly looking directly at the other blade while BLOCKING the first one. Even if he was, based on what we see, it looked like a clean blow. There's 2 things that might've happened: Eminence used his special trickery power or whatever to make him think one thing was gonna happen but he ended up doing the other, or he just straight up caught him across the face and there's no more bs to it. I'm leaning towards the former.

What Tanner did is completely unknown and is never elaborated upon. All we know is that he used some sort of ability, which obviously did something, considering that before it, he was not able to kill Midnighter or even hit him, despite trying to kill him from the beginning.

@vertigo-: Other writers acknowledging it is not an issue, and the writer of the "All-New" DC Encyclopedia disagrees, even if no other writer's acknowledge it, thats not how accolades work, you're telling me you'd only believe it if the current writer for Batman, Superman, Nightwing, etc. comics was all like "In comes the Eminence of Blades, the best swordsman in history"? Because if so thats unreasonable. You can't disregard an accolade just because not many other writers referenced him and his abilities.

Midnighter tried to hit him and failed as well.

@vertigo-: I don't own the handbook, but I do recall an entry on stormwatch or eminence. I don't have the scans on hand unfortunately, but I'll try to get my hands on it.

It's not an argument, if he's described in any way as the best swordsmen in history, then he's the best swordsman in history, by default, which means he'd be better then them, no? It's impossible for him to be the best swordsman in history if he isn't... well, the best swordsman in history. Please counter that by saying something other then "He needs more feats against skilled people".

Midnighter tried to hit him with a pipe or something and Eminence cut it in half.

@vertigo-: To your 2nd point, no. You don't need better feats to be better then someone, accolades are just as good.

Clearly tried to hit him with something there.