@the_red_viper:
- doesn't matter what it was that threw her off. The fact is that there was plot/context behind it, it wasn't fair for her. Once she snapped out of it she stomped Tasky (an A-lister) and 2 other fighters in as many panels. Which is pretty humiliating. Can Dick do that?
Why would you say it doesn't matter that it threw her off when she was clearly winning the fight beforehand? That only proves that DD's moves is the main cause as to why she lost in the first place. On top of that, the fact that Taskmaster purposely handicapped himself by closing his eyes only made Taskmaster's victory more impressive especially since its made clear that he could've killed her but didn't due to outside interference and doesn't need to close his eyes to use DD's moves.
Her easily beating Taskmaster the second time around is impressive but its only because he knew what she was up against which is what I've already explained.
Dick btw has never been in situation quite like this (having to fight back to back that is) that I'm aware of so impossible to compare which is why I've stuck to 1 on 1 fights out of fairness.
- Beating Midnighter shouldn't be happening without plot/context. He's well above street level if you ask me. What exactly happened there again?
Midnighter is definitely above street level physically but he's hasn't fully been shown to be on the same level as he was during his Wildstorm days at least not yet to be fair since he hasn't had as many appearances.
Regarding there two fights I'll try to be as detailed as possible since I'm too lazy to post the fights right now but I'll leave the references so you can look them up if you want:
Fight 1 (Grayson #1): Midnighter attempts to ambush Dick via sneak attack but fails with Dick then dodging his attacks and landing two strikes before head butted by Mids with there fight then being broken up through interference from a meta human.
Fight 2 (Grayson #6): Once again Midnighter ambushes Dick this time using a teleportation door to the God Garden and quickly starts to dominate the fight having this time prepared by memorizing all his moves as Nightwing and disarmed him of his escrima sticks. However, Dick is able to turn the fight in his favor by cleverly using his original fighting style back when he was Robin throwing Midnighter off since the style is completely different from his Nightwing moveset with Dick then grabbing Mids by the throat and standing over him with the fight entirely in his favor. Once Dick is about to use his Spyral hypnos implant in an attempt to end the battle, its revealed that Mids has taken it from him secretly somehow and Dick's eye begins to bleed distracting him and giving Mids the chance to regain the upper hand and starts to dominate the fight again. Just as Midnighter is about to finish Dick off after multiple hard strikes being landed, Dick has the idea to use the fail safe code word in his Spyral hypnos implant to shock Midnighter's brain weakening him enough for Dick to knock him out with a punch.
- I don't see how DD being naked has to do with anything. All I know is that Elektra let him hit her while trying to calm him down. Then she took him in an arm lock. Yes, that's definitely a win.
No it definitely isn't. I really doubt Matt was fully prepared a serious fight Elektra since he was resting when she came into his bedroom on top of being naked only proving my point. In addition, Elektra managing to temporarily restrain Matt doesn't mean she would've been able to hold him in that position if Matt hadn't stopped (through reasoning) and decided to hear her out especially given how there last fight has gone.
For example, Deathstroke has done something similar against Dick when he tackled him down to the ground and even had complete ground control having his back at the time only to be kicked right off by Dick so would you call that a win especially since Slade ended the fight by tactically retreating afterwards (I hope not)?
- And the other feat if her against DD isn't completely irrelevant. It matters because it was against Daredevil. Who the hell gets him, of all people by surprise? I dunno if it was thanks to her speed, skill or anything else, all I know is that it happened and that it's a great feat.
Dude...
It's a great feat yes I'm not denying that but its completely irrelevant since its not a HAND TO HAND feat which is what this fight is about: who would win the majority of the time in a pure hand to hand battle. As I said before if we're using that as evidence then I can easily use NW taking down Batgirl through surprise attack with 1 punch which is stupid. Hell, Dick has even managed to surprise Superbat (Batman with Superman's powers) despite his super hearing.
- Regarding Bullseye, I'm no expert on him but I do know he has been beaten by many fighters lesser to Elektra numerous times.
Yes, Punisher being among them in straight hth combat twice as a matter of fact IIRC which is ironic since Frank is no match for Elektra. Still, that hasn't stopped Bullseye from being a thorn in her side more times than not especially the last time they fought (that I know of in her own recent series) when Bullseye was "improved" by the Hand and nearly killed Elektra.
- The sword-catching feat is impressive but the numbers are still against him. He was beaten by him countless times, even after becoming Batman. Plus, Slade's strength and speed aren't anything that can't be matched and exceeded by Elektra. The Punisher feat shows her amazing speed, and the sai-throwing feat shows that she can hit with the force of a bullet and go all Liu-Kang if she's not pulling her punches.
Did you actually read my last post? It really seems you're not understanding me.
So I'll say it again, Dick has NOT been beaten by Deathstroke or any other A-lister AT ALL in hth combat since he's took over for Batman in his absence which was around the post-RIP/Final Crisis storyline era. This includes Ra's Al Ghul, Batgirl, Batman (even his Darkseid clone), and Midnighter (twice) all of which being A-list fighters which is what I was asking for from Elektra.
- I feel like we're going nowhere with this, so I'll end it here. You did make some good points though. I never said Elektra would win 10/10 with her eyes closed, a 8/10 is still pretty much a stomp in my eyes and that's what I was talking about the whole time. I still do think that thanks to having a huge advantage in speed and strength here makes her too much here. Add that to her amazing skill (I haven't even talked about pressure points) and her sheer brutality and lack of morals and you have Elektra winning at least a large majority over NW.
I have no problem with you or anyone thinking Elektra can win the majority of the time but there's NO WAY based off combat showings from Dick that she's going to "stomp" him when DC's best top tier fighters haven't been able to sorry but its not likely to happen in a fair 1 on 1 fight at this point.
I don't know about you but a hard stomp to me is a 10/10 easy sweep which is why I took issue with you were saying. Mind you, I don't even think it would be 8/10 (probably 5-6/10 for either one of them) but either way Elektra is definitely not winning easily. Anytime, pre-RIP/Final Crisis era you could've made a stronger agrument but definitely not now.
Anyway, its been at least entertaining debating this with you.
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