Elektra held her own against Wolverine? Wolverine is not even on the skill level of Batman.
Yeah, don't get too ahead of yourself there.
No I'm not even saying Batman would BEAT Wolverine if that's what you're saying but that Batman is a much better skilled H2H fighter than Wolverine. We can agree to disagree since Wolverine is NOT in this match.
Feats, showings of technical knowledge, and martial expertise debunk this idea.
Debunks what? Wolverine isn't even consistently portrayed as martial artist like Batman. If you want to go the feat route, Batman has much more better Martial arts feats than Wolverine. This is coming from someone who really doesn't like Batman.
Wolverine's lack of consistency has been attributed by his Master Po to be due to laziness in applying his skill. When he's making an complete effort to use that skill, he's generally unmatched. Batman does not have "much more better" martial arts feats than Wolverine mate.
@cable_extreme: Statements really don't mean much in comics. Black Panther has said that Shang Chi is better than Iron Fist when Shang has done literally nothing to put his martial prowess on par with Danny's. Diana in no way has shown the technical knowledge necessary to come close to splitting Batman.
@cable_extreme: I meant that's in regards to comparisons of skill between fighters which have nothing to back it up. Master Po's observation of Wolverine has a ludicrous amount of showings to be backed up with.
Elektra held her own against Wolverine? Wolverine is not even on the skill level of Batman.
Yeah, don't get too ahead of yourself there.
No I'm not even saying Batman would BEAT Wolverine if that's what you're saying but that Batman is a much better skilled H2H fighter than Wolverine. We can agree to disagree since Wolverine is NOT in this match.
Feats, showings of technical knowledge, and martial expertise debunk this idea.
Debunks what? Wolverine isn't even consistently portrayed as martial artist like Batman. If you want to go the feat route, Batman has much more better Martial arts feats than Wolverine. This is coming from someone who really doesn't like Batman.
Wolverine's lack of consistency has been attributed by his Master Po to be due to laziness in applying his skill. When he's making an complete effort to use that skill, he's generally unmatched. Batman does not have "much more better" martial arts feats than Wolverine mate.
@cable_extreme: Statements really don't mean much in comics. Black Panther has said that Shang Chi is better than Iron Fist when Shang has done literally nothing to put his martial prowess on par with Danny's. Diana in no way has shown the technical knowledge necessary to come close to splitting Batman.
One of these statements is backed up by showings and logic. The other is proven incorrect due to lack of feats and insane showings to the contrary. Guess which one is which?
@cable_extreme: I meant that's in regards to comparisons of skill between fighters which have nothing to back it up. Master Po's observation of Wolverine has a ludicrous amount of showings to be backed up with.
I am picking on you, though next time, start off with his feats such as fighting CA without a healing factor, sparring iron fist ect... before that, just so those feats verify.
@cable_extreme: I meant that's in regards to comparisons of skill between fighters which have nothing to back it up. Master Po's observation of Wolverine has a ludicrous amount of showings to be backed up with.
I am picking on you, though next time, start off with his feats such as fighting CA without a healing factor, sparring iron fist ect... before that just so those feats verify.
These are both false. Wolverine has curb stomped Shang Chi in a H2H fight
Really? Because the comic I read I seen Shang Chi humiliating Wolverine in their sparring match.
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and Steve is a enhanced human himself with physical stats comparable to Wolverine's, and has been beaten handily by him when Wolverine had a healing factor that was barely working, and Steve was completely fresh.
What? Steve is not even superhuman, especially not superhuman like Wolverine. Marvel always stated that he was above peak human but NOT superhuman. Wolverine is faster and stronger than Cap. Physical stats comparable to Wolverine's? Where have you heard that at?
And also Cap has ALSO beaten Wolverine while being physically outclassed.
@king_stranglehold_da_first: What makes you think that because she is capable of beating/ stalemating the best in DC, Shiva is automatically above any and every Marvel Martial Artist? Shiva still has held her own against skilled opponents who are just as good as any DC martial artist.
EXAMPLE: WOLVERINE.
First off...Your post is confusing and so is your wording. No offense. But I am pretty sure you are talking about Elektra.
Second off...When did I ever even state Shiva would be all of Marvels top Martial artist???? I said he was way up the latter compared to Elektra. Elektra held her own against Wolverine? Wolverine is not even on the skill level of Batman. Lady Shiva has actually held her own against Cassandra Cain who completely outclasses Elektra in fighting abilities. She even fought Cain who is another skilled Martial artist while pregnant. Cain who held his own against Batman. Lady Shiva was even skilled enough to make a fool out Supergirl. Elektra on the other hand struggled with Bullseye who is not even a good of a Martial artist and nowhere near Shiva's. Shiva has faced much tougher and skilled opponent compared to Elektra. Wolverine is not good enough.
She wins with ease and especially considering she can read all Elektra's move and also considering you can argue that she's much faster and stronger than Elektra.
So again Shiva wins this.
Yeah, Typo... did you just say that Lady Shiva and Batman are better than Wolverine? You have just convinced me tyhat you know nothing about comics! Captain America, The Hulk, Shang Chi, Sabertooth, Deadpool, Omega Red, Spider Man, Deathstroke (non canon), Daken,Silver Samurai, The Hand, Elektra... you're comment makes no sense. Wolverine is better than Batman, Lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain... Wolverine is better than all of them.
Elektra is debatable and I can understand if you think Elektra would lose to Shiva, but being completely incorrect is another thing.
And you just convinced me that I shouldn't even waste my time with you! I know nothing about comics? lol. You know don't even know the basics of my argument. Try reading a DC comic.
And what the heck does that list even suppose to mean??? I'm NOT debating Wolverine, but anyways Hulk, Sabretooth, Omega Red, Spider Man, Silver Samurai are not even freaking Martial artist. You just deflated your own argument. And yet you said my comment makes no sense. Yeah right.
The Hand are mostly Ninja's and attack in swarms. They're not formidable Martial Artist like Shiva, Batman or Cass. Cass alone would estroy almost all on your list besides Cap and maybe Shang Chi if it was just pure H2H and they were powered down to her level. Wolverine is better than Cass??? Do you even know who Cassandra Cain is???
IIRC Wolverine only fought Shang Chi in a sparring/training. Neither were not even serious. As for Captain America, Wolverine IS as skilled as he or probably better but its mostly due to Wolverine being Superhuman. I don't even know why you brought of Deathstroke when that fight was non canon and Cass actually fought Deathstroke and was doing good IIRC. And now that Wolverine08 made me remember, she only fought him in a training section and the hand came. So bringing up Wolverine is moot. I had asked you to NAME ME fighters that Elektra has fought that were on par with Shiva and yet you failed.
Again Shiva has actually fought more skilled people than Elektra. Elektra's martial arts are lack luster and IIRC the Hand even mentioned so.
First thing is first, are you retarded? Do you even read the books you are talking about? Sabertooth, Omega Red and Silver Samurai are martial artists. If you didn't know that they were trained fighters, how can anything you say be credible? You brought up Supergirl and she's definitely not a martial arts type. You must be joking about the Cassandra Cain thing. She would lose to amost everyone on the list and the others are debatable. Read the books and then come at me. Wolverine has fought way better fighters in more extreme conditions.
Wolverine has made fools out of the best fighters in Marvel, Cassandra could barely stand up to him.
Daredevil, Kirigi, Bushwhacker, Bullseye, Multiple Hand Ninjas, American Samurai, Wolverine, Silver Samurai, Taskmaster, Razorfist...Must I go on? The martial artist I have named aren't Lackluster, even slightly. You sound like a total fanboy and you embarrassing yourself. I ain't taking sides, but this isn't a slaughter for either of them. Elektra is skilled enough to fight Lady Shiva.
Elektra held her own against Wolverine? Wolverine is not even on the skill level of Batman.
Yeah, don't get too ahead of yourself there.
No I'm not even saying Batman would BEAT Wolverine if that's what you're saying but that Batman is a much better skilled H2H fighter than Wolverine. We can agree to disagree since Wolverine is NOT in this match.
Feats, showings of technical knowledge, and martial expertise debunk this idea.
Debunks what? Wolverine isn't even consistently portrayed as martial artist like Batman. If you want to go the feat route, Batman has much more better Martial arts feats than Wolverine. This is coming from someone who really doesn't like Batman.
Wolverine's lack of consistency has been attributed by his Master Po to be due to laziness in applying his skill. When he's making an complete effort to use that skill, he's generally unmatched. Batman does not have "much more better" martial arts feats than Wolverine mate.
Yet where are the scans? Since you said Wolverine has more better Martial arts feats than Batman. Prove it.
These are both false. Wolverine has curb stomped Shang Chi in a H2H fight
Really? Because the comic I read I seen Shang Chi humiliating Wolverine in their sparring match.
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and Steve is a enhanced human himself with physical stats comparable to Wolverine's, and has been beaten handily by him when Wolverine had a healing factor that was barely working, and Steve was completely fresh.
What? Steve is not even superhuman, especially not superhuman like Wolverine. Marvel always stated that he was above peak human but NOT superhuman. Wolverine is faster and stronger than Cap. Physical stats comparable to Wolverine's? Where have you heard that at?
And also Cap has ALSO beaten Wolverine while being physically outclassed.
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Captain America while being classified as peak human, has super human feats, like running 60 miles and hour ect...
Really? Because the comic I read I seen Shang Chi humiliating Wolverine in their sparring match.
Wow..... If you actually read that comic, you would know that Shang even noted after that Wolverine was having inner turmoil from having first met his son Daken. When Shang Chi fought a Wolverine who was 100% in the game mentally, he got curbed while awing at Wolverine's skill.........
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What? Steve is not even superhuman, especially not superhuman like Wolverine. Marvel always stated that he was above peak human but NOT superhuman. Wolverine is faster and stronger than Cap. Physical stats comparable to Wolverine's? Where have you heard that at?
And also Cap has ALSO beaten Wolverine while being physically outclassed.
Wow.... this rumor again. Captain America has called himself superhuman, he's been noted to have been taken to the next step of human evolution physically due to the super soldier serum, he runs at 60 MPH per mile, sees bullets move in slow motion, Ed Brubaker, one of Steve's best writers, has said that the comparisons between him and Batman physically are silly and that Steve has physically evolved, has bios noting that he is an enhanced human, etc. He's even been able to physically hold Wolverine down with his strength before.
The only time Steve has beaten Wolverine in a fight was back in Origins when he canonically had non of his martial training. Otherwise, he's curbed Steve while having a healing factor that was barely working, while feral, and in AvX recently, Wolverine outskilled Steve in one move and ended up in a position to kill him, but didn't simply take it.
Elektra held her own against Wolverine? Wolverine is not even on the skill level of Batman.
Yeah, don't get too ahead of yourself there.
No I'm not even saying Batman would BEAT Wolverine if that's what you're saying but that Batman is a much better skilled H2H fighter than Wolverine. We can agree to disagree since Wolverine is NOT in this match.
Feats, showings of technical knowledge, and martial expertise debunk this idea.
Debunks what? Wolverine isn't even consistently portrayed as martial artist like Batman. If you want to go the feat route, Batman has much more better Martial arts feats than Wolverine. This is coming from someone who really doesn't like Batman.
Wolverine's lack of consistency has been attributed by his Master Po to be due to laziness in applying his skill. When he's making an complete effort to use that skill, he's generally unmatched. Batman does not have "much more better" martial arts feats than Wolverine mate.
Yet where are the scans? Since you said Wolverine has more better Martial arts feats than Batman. Prove it.
I didn't say his feats are better. I don't believe that. I was simply disagreeing with your notion that Batman is so much more skilled than him. Read what I type.
@pokeysteve: Daredevil, Bullseye, Multiple Hand Ninjas, American Samurai, Wolverine...Must I go on? She can take Shiva on.
Oh yeah, I haven't mentioned any of her chi abilities either. She is capable of fighting Lady Shiva.
Bullseye sucks, hand ninjas are basically featless fodder, and I don't believe she's ever actually beaten Logan or Matt. I agree if Elektra has her extra abilities than she wins. Without them she doesn't.
@pokeysteve: Daredevil, Bullseye, Multiple Hand Ninjas, American Samurai, Wolverine...Must I go on? She can take Shiva on.
Oh yeah, I haven't mentioned any of her chi abilities either. She is capable of fighting Lady Shiva.
Bullseye sucks, hand ninjas are basically featless fodder, and I don't believe she's ever actually beaten Logan or Matt. I agree if Elektra has her extra abilities than she wins. Without them she doesn't.
Even with her extra abilities, she hasn't used them much, and they aren't super effective. She has only been shown (to my knowledge) using her TP to communicate, and her scream isn't enough imo, nor is it used consistently.
@pokeysteve: Daredevil, Bullseye, Multiple Hand Ninjas, American Samurai, Wolverine...Must I go on? She can take Shiva on.
Oh yeah, I haven't mentioned any of her chi abilities either. She is capable of fighting Lady Shiva.
Bullseye sucks, hand ninjas are basically featless fodder, and I don't believe she's ever actually beaten Logan or Matt. I agree if Elektra has her extra abilities than she wins. Without them she doesn't.
Bullseye has given Daredevil several solid fights and even managed to fight Matt and Elektra at the same time before.
@king_stranglehold_da_first: What makes you think that because she is capable of beating/ stalemating the best in DC, Shiva is automatically above any and every Marvel Martial Artist? Shiva still has held her own against skilled opponents who are just as good as any DC martial artist.
EXAMPLE: WOLVERINE.
First off...Your post is confusing and so is your wording. No offense. But I am pretty sure you are talking about Elektra.
Second off...When did I ever even state Shiva would be all of Marvels top Martial artist???? I said he was way up the latter compared to Elektra. Elektra held her own against Wolverine? Wolverine is not even on the skill level of Batman. Lady Shiva has actually held her own against Cassandra Cain who completely outclasses Elektra in fighting abilities. She even fought Cain who is another skilled Martial artist while pregnant. Cain who held his own against Batman. Lady Shiva was even skilled enough to make a fool out Supergirl. Elektra on the other hand struggled with Bullseye who is not even a good of a Martial artist and nowhere near Shiva's. Shiva has faced much tougher and skilled opponent compared to Elektra. Wolverine is not good enough.
She wins with ease and especially considering she can read all Elektra's move and also considering you can argue that she's much faster and stronger than Elektra.
So again Shiva wins this.
Yeah, Typo... did you just say that Lady Shiva and Batman are better than Wolverine? You have just convinced me tyhat you know nothing about comics! Captain America, The Hulk, Shang Chi, Sabertooth, Deadpool, Omega Red, Spider Man, Deathstroke (non canon), Daken,Silver Samurai, The Hand, Elektra... you're comment makes no sense. Wolverine is better than Batman, Lady Shiva, Cassandra Cain... Wolverine is better than all of them.
Elektra is debatable and I can understand if you think Elektra would lose to Shiva, but being completely incorrect is another thing.
And you just convinced me that I shouldn't even waste my time with you! I know nothing about comics? lol. You know don't even know the basics of my argument. Try reading a DC comic.
And what the heck does that list even suppose to mean??? I'm NOT debating Wolverine, but anyways Hulk, Sabretooth, Omega Red, Spider Man, Silver Samurai are not even freaking Martial artist. You just deflated your own argument. And yet you said my comment makes no sense. Yeah right.
The Hand are mostly Ninja's and attack in swarms. They're not formidable Martial Artist like Shiva, Batman or Cass. Cass alone would estroy almost all on your list besides Cap and maybe Shang Chi if it was just pure H2H and they were powered down to her level. Wolverine is better than Cass??? Do you even know who Cassandra Cain is???
IIRC Wolverine only fought Shang Chi in a sparring/training. Neither were not even serious. As for Captain America, Wolverine IS as skilled as he or probably better but its mostly due to Wolverine being Superhuman. I don't even know why you brought of Deathstroke when that fight was non canon and Cass actually fought Deathstroke and was doing good IIRC. And now that Wolverine08 made me remember, she only fought him in a training section and the hand came. So bringing up Wolverine is moot. I had asked you to NAME ME fighters that Elektra has fought that were on par with Shiva and yet you failed.
Again Shiva has actually fought more skilled people than Elektra. Elektra's martial arts are lack luster and IIRC the Hand even mentioned so.
First thing is first, are you retarded? Do you even read the books you are talking about? Sabertooth, Omega Red and Silver Samurai are martial artists. If you didn't know that they were trained fighters, how can anything you say be credible? You brought up Supergirl and she's definitely not a martial arts type. You must be joking about the Cassandra Cain thing. She would lose to amost everyone on the list and the others are debatable. Read the books and then come at me. Wolverine has fought way better fighters in more extreme conditions.
Wolverine has made fools out of the best fighters in Marvel, Cassandra could barely stand up to him.
Daredevil, Kirigi, Bushwhacker, Bullseye, Multiple Hand Ninjas, American Samurai, Wolverine, Silver Samurai, Taskmaster, Razorfist...Must I go on? The martial artist I have named aren't Lackluster, even slightly. You sound like a total fanboy and you embarrassing yourself. I ain't taking sides, but this isn't a slaughter for either of them. Elektra is skilled enough to fight Lady Shiva.
I am newer than you but I will say that maybe calling someone retarded who has been here longer than you and an established debater is not a good move
Do YOU understand the argument at hand? Because it seems like you don't. Yes I DO read the books, what does that even have to do with the argument?
Omega Red and Silver Samurai are martial artists. If you didn't know that they were trained fighters, how can anything you say be credible?
What? Again you DEFLATE your argument. None of those three people are formidable martial artist. Silver Samari name itself implies that he is a SAMURAI and not a martial artist like Shiva. What martial arts feats does Omega Red even have that puts him on par with Shiva or the freaking Batman for that what? Omega Red mostly relies on his life force absorption and other superhuman abilities. As for Sabretooth what martial arts feats does he even have that put him on par with Shiva???
Batman has said that Shiva is a master of all fighting forms. Batman who IIRC has 127 under his belt. Do those three you listed even come close???
You brought up Supergirl and she's definitely not a martial arts type.
No I said Shiva has beat Supergirl using her skills and skills ALONE by using Supergirls strength against her.
Unlike you I didn't even include Supergirl under the formidable martial artists she has fought unlike what you did with Wolverine. lol.
You must be joking about the Cassandra Cain thing. She would lose to amost everyone on the list and the others are debatable.
Yeah since she is PHYSICALLY OUTCLASSED. But I said in a straight up H2H and them being powered down to her level. Cass beat most of them. Heck some of them wouldn't even have to be powered down since Cass has fought meta humans on a daily basis. Again do you even know who Cass is??? She was trained since childhood to be a deadly fighter by already deadly martial artist parents. Even as a baby she already knew how to body read body language.
This is the same Cassandra Cain that made the freaking Batman look like a joke and held her own against Deathstroke.
Read the books and then come at me.
Says the one who not only knows nothing about Cassandra Cain but actually listed the freaking Hulk as a martial artists who Wolverine has fought, when I specifically said name martial artists that Elektra fought...And you still haven't. Learn how to debate and then come at me.
Wolverine has fought way better fighters in more extreme conditions.
Like who? Name them. All I have is Shang Chi and Cap. Both who defeated Wolverine. The rest are not even as skilled in H2H as Shiva or Cass. Again I am talking strictly MARTIAL ARTISTS to make it as clear as I can.
Wolverine has made fools out of the best fighters in Marvel, Cassandra could barely stand up to him.
Like who? I'm not saying that Cass would beat or stomp him but that she is more skilled than him when it comes to MA. Again all I have is Shang Chi and Cap who also defeated him. Wolverine was also humiliated by T'Challa who some say is on par with Bruce Wayne.
But it doesn't even matter because Wolverine is not even in this match and the fight Elektra had with Wolverine wasn't even impressive as pointed out by Wolverine08. Again you still have failed to name me top martial artists that Elektra has fought that is on par with Shiva.
Daredevil, Kirigi, Bushwhacker, Bullseye, Multiple Hand Ninjas, American Samurai, Wolverine, Silver Samurai, Taskmaster, Razorfist...Must I go on?
What? None of these people are even on par with Shiva and not only that you are STILL naming non Martial artists like Silver Samurai. Daredevil usually HOLDS BACK against Elektra and he has even stated that. Daredevil is not even finished half his training by Stick and Stick even mentioned that when he returned. Hand ninjas and just ninja's and IIRC Elektra was even kicked out. The case with Wolverine was already addressed. Bullsye? What??? And you say I'm "embarrassing myself". Bullseye doesn't even come close to Shiva. This is the same Bullseye that got beat by Punisher who hardly has any good MA feats and yet Elektra still struggled with him panel after panel. Yet again you deflate your own argument.
Bushwhacker? Again he's not a freaking skilled MA. Or not even on par with Shiva. He using his cybernetic arm most of the time. Krigi has no feats that put him on par with Shiva and he is not an Martial Artist but NINJA like all of the hand and even Elektra. As for Taskmaster I remeber DD even stated that he is physically the weakest street level villains. Taskmaster doesn't even MASTER any fighting styles, he's a copy cat and has a bad track record even losing to freaking Deadpool. How many fighting styles has he even mastered compared to Shiva or Cass or even Batman for that matter.
The martial artist I have named aren't Lackluster, even slightly.
Actually they are and you made your argument worse. None of them are even close to Shiva when it comes to pure MA. Daredevil alone on your list has not even mastered half the fighting styles Batman knows and yet Shiva mastered more than him. You have failed yet again to name me fighters that Elektra has fought that were on par with Shiva. Try again.
Next....
You sound like a total fanboy and you embarrassing yourself.
Actually you seem to be doing an awesome job at that yourself.
And sounding like a fanboy? I'm actually backing up my argument which you have not down. You have not proven Elektra is as skilled as Shiva when it comes to MA.
I ain't taking sides, but this isn't a slaughter for either of them. Elektra is skilled enough to fight Lady Shiva.
Actually Elektra is not. Lady Shiva's body reading language will be more than enough to soundly defeat Elektra. She will know all Elektra's moves before Elektra can even make a hit.
Wow..... If you actually read that comic, you would know that Shang even noted after that Wolverine was having inner turmoil from having first met his son Daken. When Shang Chi fought a Wolverine who was 100% in the game mentally, he got curbed while awing at Wolverine's skill.........
Shang Chi still beat him while only being human. Also in your scans Logan even admits that Shang Chi was surprised by his superhuman abilities.
Wow.... this rumor again. Captain America has called himself superhuman, he's been noted to have been taken to the next step of human evolution physically due to the super soldier serum, he runs at 60 MPH per mile, sees bullets move in slow motion, Ed Brubaker, one of Steve's best writers, has said that the comparisons between him and Batman physically are silly and that Steve has physically evolved, has bios noting that he is an enhanced human, etc. He's even been able to physically hold Wolverine down with his strength before.
The only time Steve has beaten Wolverine in a fight was back in Origins when he canonically had non of his martial training. Otherwise, he's curbed Steve while having a healing factor that was barely working, while feral, and in AvX recently, Wolverine outskilled Steve in one move and ended up in a position to kill him, but didn't simply take it.
I don't know...I remember Marvel stating that he was above peak human but not superhuman and its handbook even said something like that. IDK the thing with Captain America is confusing as heck. But he is not on Wolverines level of physicality or can someone show me scans that prove so.
@king_stranglehold_da_first: Beating somebody who can barely fight effectively due to inner turmoil is not very impressive. Look at Shang Chi's own words. He was surprised by Wolverine's focus and discipline and compared it to that of a samurai's.
Captain America is on Wolverine's physical level. He's even being able to hold him firmly in a pin. I'll go get the scans for you.
@king_stranglehold_da_first: Beating somebody who can barely fight effectively due to inner turmoil is not very impressive. Look at Shang Chi's own words. He was surprised by Wolverine's focus and discipline and compared it to that of a samurai's.
Captain America is on Wolverine's physical level. He's even being able to hold him firmly in a pin. I'll go get the scans for you.
I don't care about this Wolverine debate since he is not even in this match. I'm just waiting for someone to prove that Eleketra is on Shivas level when it comes to MA.
Also we already agreed when Elektra fought Wolverine it was not impressive due to the hand.
@king_stranglehold_da_first: Beating somebody who can barely fight effectively due to inner turmoil is not very impressive. Look at Shang Chi's own words. He was surprised by Wolverine's focus and discipline and compared it to that of a samurai's.
Captain America is on Wolverine's physical level. He's even being able to hold him firmly in a pin. I'll go get the scans for you.
I don't care about this Wolverine debate since he is not even in this match. I'm just waiting for someone to prove that Eleketra is on Shivas level when it comes to MA.
Also we already agreed when Elektra fought Wolverine it was not impressive due to the hand.
Wow I'm surprised this fight has gotten away from electra's supernatural ninja powers. This isn't h2h and she will have her sais, telepathy, and insane feats. She is the worlds best assassin.
I just want to put that out there but honestly I see daredevil beating Electra when he tries. And then crazily enough shiva could beat DD in a good fight.( maybe he could win if he had more freetime to train like she does)
So even tho i think elektra has better physicals and "powers" I think Shiva is too much of a match for her. Both women can kill men with there bare hands and damage superhumans so although I think they are similar in skill in a comic book it would look like a stomp because of how quickly shiva will win.
This part here? Refrain from asking users this question in the future thanks. If you can't disagree with a poster civilly then do not address them please. Cheers.
Some reason insufficient arguments being made in this thread, one can't prove a point making a positive claim then insisting its accurate until another proves an alternative competing positive claim. Frank Miller designed Elektra to be Daredevil's equal if not slightly superior (he disliked the Lois Lane/Jane Foster trend), and since her creation many writers have developed her with the intent of improvement (and this can be true of any character) but the ideal that the Daredevil character holds back against Elektra is contradictory to the ideas and beliefs of writers such as Zeb Wells. From a characterization perspective he could, it applies to Elektra as well, but there are also differences between, applying ones ability and using any and all means necessary to maim, murder and defeat something. Also how impressive something is, is relative. Its as valid for a person to find everything impressive as it is to find nothing impressive, but Elektra's encounter with Wolverine in Enemy of the State not being impressive? Compared to?!?
Then for the record Elektra's last two encounters with Bullseye have had her "beat" him, and the last was with her heavily injured and after a fight with two ex SHIELD agents with weapons and with Bullseye having prep on her. The last depicted fight before that was under Bendis who has confirmed the Elektra that fought Bullseye alongside Daredevil was in fact a Skrull (not that its actually a necessary sign of superiority for one person to fight two in an open environment, because of the increased potential of crossfire, miscommunication, haphazard objects - now if a single person eventually persists and beats two people in a closed environment that actually could be a good indication of superiority)
That being said I have no real or strong opinion as to Elektra versus Lady Shiva give the nature of fictional characters and attempts to demonstrate parallels between fictional realities but I think given both their respective histories and roles within their respective fictional universes, in story actions, and writer intent it would be pretty close and could go either way.
Some reason insufficient arguments being made in this thread, one can't prove a point making a positive claim then insisting its accurate until another proves an alternative competing positive claim. Frank Miller designed Elektra to be Daredevil's equal if not slightly superior (he disliked the Lois Lane/Jane Foster trend), and since her creation many writers have developed her with the intent of improvement (and this can be true of any character) but the ideal that the Daredevil character holds back against Elektra is contradictory to the ideas and beliefs of writers such as Zeb Wells. From a characterization perspective he could, it applies to Elektra as well, but there are also differences between, applying ones ability and using any and all means necessary to maim, murder and defeat something. Also how impressive something is, is relative. Its as valid for a person to find everything impressive as it is to find nothing impressive, but Elektra's encounter with Wolverine in Enemy of the State not being impressive? Compared to?!?
Then for the record Elektra's last two encounters with Bullseye have had her "beat" him, and the last was with her heavily injured after a fight with two ex SHIELD agents with weapons and with Bullseye having prep on her. The last depicted fight before that was under Bendis who has confirmed the Elektra that fought Bullseye alongside Daredevil was in fact a Skrull (not that its actually a necessary sign of superiority for one person to fight two in an open environment, because of the increased potential of crossfire, miscommunication, haphazard objects - now if a single person eventually persists and beats two people in a closed environment that actually could be a good indication of superiority)
That being said I have no real or strong opinion as to Elektra versus Lady Shiva give the nature of fictional characters and attempts to demonstrate parallels between fictional realities but I think given both their respective histories and roles within their respective fictional universes, in story actions, and writer intent it would be pretty close and could go either way.
What a surprisingly beautiful comment in contrast with the other stupid blabbering in this thread. Elektra beats Shiva with tp. Here's a little something:
Shield file saying elektra can friggin mind control.She's quite possibly superior in physical strength too.
@pokeysteve: She's had standstills with Daredevil and held her own against Wolverine. She didn't beat him, but she is still a good fighter. Bullseye has beaten Daredevil in a fight. Bullseye has done the same to many others who fight as good as Daredevil. Bullseye is not a joke.
@pokeysteve: She's had standstills with Daredevil and held her own against Wolverine. She didn't beat him, but she is still a good fighter. Bullseye has beaten Daredevil in a fight. Bullseye has done the same to many others who fight as good as Daredevil. Bullseye is not a joke.
Do you have the battle where Bullseye beats Daredevil? I am curious.
@pokeysteve: She's had standstills with Daredevil and held her own against Wolverine. She didn't beat him, but she is still a good fighter. Bullseye has beaten Daredevil in a fight. Bullseye has done the same to many others who fight as good as Daredevil. Bullseye is not a joke.
Do you have the battle where Bullseye beats Daredevil? I am curious.
I'm fairly certain that Bullseye has never beaten Daredevil. He's given decent fights, but never won anything to my knowledge. He's even lost to a Daredevil whom had a broken arm.........
Do YOU understand the argument at hand? Because it seems like you don't. Yes I DO read the books, what does that even have to do with the argument?
Omega Red and Silver Samurai are martial artists. If you didn't know that they were trained fighters, how can anything you say be credible?
What? Again you DEFLATE your argument. None of those three people are formidable martial artist. Silver Samari name itself implies that he is a SAMURAI and not a martial artist like Shiva. What martial arts feats does Omega Red even have that puts him on par with Shiva or the freaking Batman for that what? Omega Red mostly relies on his life force absorption and other superhuman abilities. As for Sabretooth what martial arts feats does he even have that put him on par with Shiva???
Batman has said that Shiva is a master of all fighting forms. Batman who IIRC has 127 under his belt. Do those three you listed even come close???
You brought up Supergirl and she's definitely not a martial arts type.
No I said Shiva has beat Supergirl using her skills and skills ALONE by using Supergirls strength against her.
Unlike you I didn't even include Supergirl under the formidable martial artists she has fought unlike what you did with Wolverine. lol.
You must be joking about the Cassandra Cain thing. She would lose to amost everyone on the list and the others are debatable.
Yeah since she is PHYSICALLY OUTCLASSED. But I said in a straight up H2H and them being powered down to her level. Cass beat most of them. Heck some of them wouldn't even have to be powered down since Cass has fought meta humans on a daily basis. Again do you even know who Cass is??? She was trained since childhood to be a deadly fighter by already deadly martial artist parents. Even as a baby she already knew how to body read body language.
This is the same Cassandra Cain that made the freaking Batman look like a joke and held her own against Deathstroke.
Read the books and then come at me.
Says the one who not only knows nothing about Cassandra Cain but actually listed the freaking Hulk as a martial artists who Wolverine has fought, when I specifically said name martial artists that Elektra fought...And you still haven't. Learn how to debate and then come at me.
Wolverine has fought way better fighters in more extreme conditions.
Like who? Name them. All I have is Shang Chi and Cap. Both who defeated Wolverine. The rest are not even as skilled in H2H as Shiva or Cass. Again I am talking strictly MARTIAL ARTISTS to make it as clear as I can.
Wolverine has made fools out of the best fighters in Marvel, Cassandra could barely stand up to him.
Like who? I'm not saying that Cass would beat or stomp him but that she is more skilled than him when it comes to MA. Again all I have is Shang Chi and Cap who also defeated him. Wolverine was also humiliated by T'Challa who some say is on par with Bruce Wayne.
But it doesn't even matter because Wolverine is not even in this match and the fight Elektra had with Wolverine wasn't even impressive as pointed out by Wolverine08. Again you still have failed to name me top martial artists that Elektra has fought that is on par with Shiva.
Daredevil, Kirigi, Bushwhacker, Bullseye, Multiple Hand Ninjas, American Samurai, Wolverine, Silver Samurai, Taskmaster, Razorfist...Must I go on?
What? None of these people are even on par with Shiva and not only that you are STILL naming non Martial artists like Silver Samurai. Daredevil usually HOLDS BACK against Elektra and he has even stated that. Daredevil is not even finished half his training by Stick and Stick even mentioned that when he returned. Hand ninjas and just ninja's and IIRC Elektra was even kicked out. The case with Wolverine was already addressed. Bullsye? What??? And you say I'm "embarrassing myself". Bullseye doesn't even come close to Shiva. This is the same Bullseye that got beat by Punisher who hardly has any good MA feats and yet Elektra still struggled with him panel after panel. Yet again you deflate your own argument.
Bushwhacker? Again he's not a freaking skilled MA. Or not even on par with Shiva. He using his cybernetic arm most of the time. Krigi has no feats that put him on par with Shiva and he is not an Martial Artist but NINJA like all of the hand and even Elektra. As for Taskmaster I remeber DD even stated that he is physically the weakest street level villains. Taskmaster doesn't even MASTER any fighting styles, he's a copy cat and has a bad track record even losing to freaking Deadpool. How many fighting styles has he even mastered compared to Shiva or Cass or even Batman for that matter.
The martial artist I have named aren't Lackluster, even slightly.
Actually they are and you made your argument worse. None of them are even close to Shiva when it comes to pure MA. Daredevil alone on your list has not even mastered half the fighting styles Batman knows and yet Shiva mastered more than him. You have failed yet again to name me fighters that Elektra has fought that were on par with Shiva. Try again.
Next....
You sound like a total fanboy and you embarrassing yourself.
Actually you seem to be doing an awesome job at that yourself.
And sounding like a fanboy? I'm actually backing up my argument which you have not down. You have not proven Elektra is as skilled as Shiva when it comes to MA.
I ain't taking sides, but this isn't a slaughter for either of them. Elektra is skilled enough to fight Lady Shiva.
Actually Elektra is not. Lady Shiva's body reading language will be more than enough to soundly defeat Elektra. She will know all Elektra's moves before Elektra can even make a hit.
You're comment has made my mouth drop. I don't know where to start. Alright Let's start t the beginning.
Do you read the books? You seem to have no comprehension of the characters you are talking about. You told me that Omega Red, Sabertooth and Silver Samurai weren't martial artist, when that was untrue. Omega and Silver were stated to have been trained in martial arts and in weapon use. They aren't Batman level in skill, but they aren't lackluster. Sabertooth has beaten Wolverine on multiple occasions using his hands, he's fought Iron Fist sveral times and he he has fought Black Panther a few time too ( they go back and forth). That alone sets him above Cassandra, Batman or any other Bat person.
Batman isn't the best, he's been knocked out by several human level opponents who weren't master martial artists. All Shiva did in that scan was dodge one attack. She didn't knock her out. If you didn't know that Sabertooth or Silver Samurai were martial artists, then you shouldn't even be on this site.
Captain America, The Hulk, Shang Chi, Sabertooth, Deadpool, Omega Red, Spider Man, Deathstroke (non canon), Daken,Silver Samurai, The Hand, Elektra... Cass couldn't hold her own against most of these people. What is the point of depowering them? Wolverine beat these guys and they weren't depowered. Cass is not in the same class as Wolverine. Wolverine is a 100 year old master who's fought trained fighters using his hands or claws. He has been commonly nominated as one of the best martial artists in marvel. I never pointed the Hulk or any of those people out as martial artists. Where did you get THAT nonsense from? I named a bunch of martial artists Elektra fought, you didn't ask me clarify if they were as good as Shiva, and even then, some of the guys below are capable of killing her.
Daredevil, Kirigi, Bushwhacker, Bullseye, Multiple Hand Ninjas, American Samurai, Wolverine, Silver Samurai, Taskmaster, Razorfist...
You tellin me that these folks aren't martial artists? You tried to point the punisher out, saying that if Bullseye lost to him, he must not be a good fighter. The Punisher still managed to fight Daredevil and barely lost. The Punisher is known for being able to hold his own against master martial artists such as the Kingpin, Moon Knight, Daredevil, Black Widow... I've said enough about him. Now, the others aren't as good as Shiva (except Taskmaster), but they are good fighters and martial artists. Taskmaster got taken down by Daredevil, but he still did beat Cat, Captain America, Deadpool, Spiderman, Iron Man... Yeah, tell me about something Shiva has done that puts her on his level.
It doesn't matter how many styles someone has mastered. I could know three hundred thousand fighting styles and I still could lose to a person who knows one. Batman is just mixed martial arts. Shiva probably is better fighter than Daredevil, but that does not make him any less legit.
Your argument has to be dumbest thing I've ever heard. It makes no sense. You seem to be the average Bat fanboy who knows nothing about comics and you think that "Batman, SHIVA,CASSANDRA CAIN ARE BEST MARTIALL ARTISTSS EVAAAA! nO ONE CAN BEAT DEM THEY CAN BEAT GALACTUS THANOS DARKSEID SUPAMAN ONE MILLION BILLION!"
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