Elektra has far more appearences, and thus, far more feats...but it should be noted, that David Cain, has stallemated Batman, given a good fight to Cass, made Deadshot look like a roockie, etc.
Yeah but with a character like cain or drakkon,,, their few appearances hurt them in battles like this... David should be far higher than he is but he gets beat in most battles because he just doesn't have the feats... Elektra wins due to feats,,,
@bat_girl_cc: And briefly fought on an even keel with Deathstroke.
But yeah, Elektra takes it.
Yup, they saw each other, as equals, back in the day, David was on his prime...and even as a old man, he still stallemated Batman in no-man's-land, who he had also trained.
Elektra has many good feats, but to me what gives her the win, is the number of appearences, which will eventually lead to more feats.
his best feats are stalemates of characters tho,, he doesn't have any clean wins over any top tier fighters... He is meant to be a challenge for the top tier guys but always fall short....
his best feats are stalemates of characters tho,, he doesn't have any clean wins over any top tier fighters... He is meant to be a challenge for the top tier guys but always fall short....
He falled short, to Batman, Cassandra Cain, Deathstroke and Lady Shiva...anyone would fall short against any of these people.
Which is what I am saying,,, he was meant to be a challenge for the top tier but not quite good enough to beat them..... Elektra has beaten some top tier guys but that is due having more appearances.. I think Cain and her would be in the same tier of skill and probably would be a stalemate without the number of appearances thing....
Which is what I am saying,,, he was meant to be a challenge for the top tier but not quite good enough to beat them..... Elektra has beaten some top tier guys but that is due having more appearances.. I think Cain and her would be in the same tier of skill and probably would be a stalemate without the number of appearances thing....
Yes, with more appearences he would definitely have more and better feats.
@bat_girl_cc: it's not that elektra has more feats, it's that she has far better feats.
Far better feats?...what are those feats?
Fighting evenly with Daredevil, making micemeat of Lady Bullseye, beating Bullseye twice while at disadvantages, holding her own against a bloodlusted Wolverine for starters. Those are just skill wise. In terms of strength, she's punched through body armor while weakened, knocked down brick walls and punched through concrete. In terms of speed she's block machine gun fire, cut bullets in half, caught Bullseye's projectiles while weakened, and disarmed bullet timers like Punisher before he knew what happened. In terms of durability, she's tanked a story level fall while drugged and weakened, tanked getting tased, tanked punches from the 10 tonner paladin and ignored sword strikes. David Cain hasn't done anything to put him anywhere near that level. You could bring up outier showings like stalemating Deathstroke but then I'd bring up Elektra beating Taskmaster and a bloodlusted Wolverine.
@highaccuser: She also impaled Red She-Hulk with her sais. I have to look back for more feats. Quite an underrated character.
Eh, Punisher did the same to Red Hulk. The Red Hulks have pretty bad piercing resistance. She is quite an underrated character. Nightwing levelers like David Cain are doing nothing to her.
@bat_girl_cc: it's not that elektra has more feats, it's that she has far better feats.
Far better feats?...what are those feats?
Fighting evenly with Daredevil, making micemeat of Lady Bullseye, beating Bullseye twice while at disadvantages, holding her own against a bloodlusted Wolverine for starters. Those are just skill wise. In terms of strength, she's punched through body armor while weakened, knocked down brick walls and punched through concrete. In terms of speed she's block machine gun fire, cut bullets in half, caught Bullseye's projectiles while weakened, and disarmed bullet timers like Punisher before he knew what happened. In terms of durability, she's tanked a story level fall while drugged and weakened, tanked getting tased, tanked punches from the 10 tonner paladin and ignored sword strikes. David Cain hasn't done anything to put him anywhere near that level. You could bring up outier showings like stalemating Deathstroke but then I'd bring up Elektra beating Taskmaster and a bloodlusted Wolverine.
WOW! she even seems like a match for Cass!...but i think you are underestimating David Cain here quite a bit, he has stallemated Batman, holded his own against Cass, though that fight had context, holding his own against Slade, made Deadshot look like a amauter, etc, in my opinion he loses to Elektra in quantity, not quality.
Fighting evenly with Daredevil, making micemeat of Lady Bullseye, beating Bullseye twice while at disadvantages, holding her own against a bloodlusted Wolverine for starters. Those are just skill wise. In terms of strength, she's punched through body armor while weakened, knocked down brick walls and punched through concrete. In terms of speed she's block machine gun fire, cut bullets in half, caught Bullseye's projectiles while weakened, and disarmed bullet timers like Punisher before he knew what happened. In terms of durability, she's tanked a story level fall while drugged and weakened, tanked getting tased, tanked punches from the 10 tonner paladin and ignored sword strikes. David Cain hasn't done anything to put him anywhere near that level. You could bring up outier showings like stalemating Deathstroke but then I'd bring up Elektra beating Taskmaster and a bloodlusted Wolverine.
Lady bullseyes best fight is her fight against elektra and I wouldn't say elektra made mince meat of her either. Lady bullseye got some hits in. Are you referring to enemy of the state with wolverine? If so Elektra sacrificed some shield agents and than pressure pointed him. She did kind of beat wolverine in elektra/wolverine the redeemer but he wasn't bloodlusted. Some people would also argue wolverine was distracted in that encounter but I wouldn't.
Fighting evenly with Daredevil, making micemeat of Lady Bullseye, beating Bullseye twice while at disadvantages, holding her own against a bloodlusted Wolverine for starters. Those are just skill wise. In terms of strength, she's punched through body armor while weakened, knocked down brick walls and punched through concrete. In terms of speed she's block machine gun fire, cut bullets in half, caught Bullseye's projectiles while weakened, and disarmed bullet timers like Punisher before he knew what happened. In terms of durability, she's tanked a story level fall while drugged and weakened, tanked getting tased, tanked punches from the 10 tonner paladin and ignored sword strikes. David Cain hasn't done anything to put him anywhere near that level. You could bring up outier showings like stalemating Deathstroke but then I'd bring up Elektra beating Taskmaster and a bloodlusted Wolverine.
Lady bullseyes best fight is her fight against elektra and I wouldn't say elektra made mince meat of her either. Lady bullseye got some hits in. Are you referring to enemy of the state with wolverine? If so Elektra sacrificed some shield agents and than pressure pointed him. She did kind of beat wolverine in elektra/wolverine the redeemer but he wasn't bloodlusted. Some people would also argue wolverine was distracted in that encounter but I wouldn't.
Giving a fight to Wolverine is still very impressive, though i still belive that if David had more appearences, he would have more and better feats to show/compare, as of it is, i'm giving it to Elektra.
WOW! she even seems like a match for Cass!...but i think you are underestimating David Cain here quite a bit, he has stallemated Batman, holded his own against Cass, though that fight had context, holding his own against Slade, made Deadshot look like a amauter, etc, in my opinion he loses to Elektra in quantity, not quality.
I'd say she could give Cass a noteworthy fight before losing. David stalemated Bruce off-panel. In their on-panel fight Bruce dominated. David acknowledged he was messing with Cass' head during their fight and still lost...not impressive at all. Holding his own against Slade was something that happened off-panel and shouldn't be taken seriously anymore than when Nightwing does it. Beating Deadshot is impressive, but he did it in close combat, something Deadshot sucks at(he couldn't even beat Spy Smasher up close, someone who lost a fight with Oracle). Elektra has him handily beat in quality as well.
Fighting evenly with Daredevil, making micemeat of Lady Bullseye, beating Bullseye twice while at disadvantages, holding her own against a bloodlusted Wolverine for starters. Those are just skill wise. In terms of strength, she's punched through body armor while weakened, knocked down brick walls and punched through concrete. In terms of speed she's block machine gun fire, cut bullets in half, caught Bullseye's projectiles while weakened, and disarmed bullet timers like Punisher before he knew what happened. In terms of durability, she's tanked a story level fall while drugged and weakened, tanked getting tased, tanked punches from the 10 tonner paladin and ignored sword strikes. David Cain hasn't done anything to put him anywhere near that level. You could bring up outier showings like stalemating Deathstroke but then I'd bring up Elektra beating Taskmaster and a bloodlusted Wolverine.
Lady bullseyes best fight is her fight against elektra and I wouldn't say elektra made mince meat of her either. Lady bullseye got some hits in. Are you referring to enemy of the state with wolverine? If so Elektra sacrificed some shield agents and than pressure pointed him. She did kind of beat wolverine in elektra/wolverine the redeemer but he wasn't bloodlusted. Some people would also argue wolverine was distracted in that encounter but I wouldn't.
The hits Lady Bullseye got on her didn't do much of anything. Once Elektra got serious she won pretty quickly. Daredevil's also stomped Lady Bullseye before and Elektra's fought evenly with him in the past. The fights with Wolverine I mostly know of by reputation so I won't comment on those.
@highaccuser: Elektra was serious the entire time against lady buslleye. The hits lady bullseye got hurt her they just weren't lethal unlike the hit elektra got in. I don't think Elektra and daredevil have had a conclusive fight without context, regardless I am not saying that elektra can't beat lady bullseye I am saying lady bullseyes fight with elektra is more of a feat for lady bullseye to be honest. The only other time she held her own with a skilled fighter was against daredevil, but daredevil was a bit distracted and as you said he's stomped her before.
WOW! she even seems like a match for Cass!...but i think you are underestimating David Cain here quite a bit, he has stallemated Batman, holded his own against Cass, though that fight had context, holding his own against Slade, made Deadshot look like a amauter, etc, in my opinion he loses to Elektra in quantity, not quality.
I'd say she could give Cass a noteworthy fight before losing. David stalemated Bruce off-panel. In their on-panel fight Bruce dominated. David acknowledged he was messing with Cass' head during their fight and still lost...not impressive at all. Holding his own against Slade was something that happened off-panel and shouldn't be taken seriously anymore than when Nightwing does it. Beating Deadshot is impressive, but he did it in close combat, something Deadshot sucks at(he couldn't even beat Spy Smasher up close, someone who lost a fight with Oracle). Elektra has him handily beat in quality as well.
Fighting evenly with Daredevil, making micemeat of Lady Bullseye, beating Bullseye twice while at disadvantages, holding her own against a bloodlusted Wolverine for starters. Those are just skill wise. In terms of strength, she's punched through body armor while weakened, knocked down brick walls and punched through concrete. In terms of speed she's block machine gun fire, cut bullets in half, caught Bullseye's projectiles while weakened, and disarmed bullet timers like Punisher before he knew what happened. In terms of durability, she's tanked a story level fall while drugged and weakened, tanked getting tased, tanked punches from the 10 tonner paladin and ignored sword strikes. David Cain hasn't done anything to put him anywhere near that level. You could bring up outier showings like stalemating Deathstroke but then I'd bring up Elektra beating Taskmaster and a bloodlusted Wolverine.
Lady bullseyes best fight is her fight against elektra and I wouldn't say elektra made mince meat of her either. Lady bullseye got some hits in. Are you referring to enemy of the state with wolverine? If so Elektra sacrificed some shield agents and than pressure pointed him. She did kind of beat wolverine in elektra/wolverine the redeemer but he wasn't bloodlusted. Some people would also argue wolverine was distracted in that encounter but I wouldn't.
The hits Lady Bullseye got on her didn't do much of anything. Once Elektra got serious she won pretty quickly. Daredevil's also stomped Lady Bullseye before and Elektra's fought evenly with him in the past. The fights with Wolverine I mostly know of by reputation so I won't comment on those.
" I'd say she could give Cass a noteworthy fight before losing. David stalemated Bruce off-panel. In their on-panel fight Bruce dominated. David acknowledged he was messing with Cass' head during their fight and still lost...not impressive at all. Holding his own against Slade was something that happened off-panel and shouldn't be taken seriously anymore than when Nightwing does it. Beating Deadshot is impressive, but he did it in close combat, something Deadshot sucks at(he couldn't even beat Spy Smasher up close, someone who lost a fight with Oracle). Elektra has him handily beat in quality as well. "
Fair enough, though Nightwings "good showings" against Slade are obvious WIS i remember once Nightwing even gave money to Slade, lol...and Deadshot doesn't suck at close combat, he can kill people at close range, though it's harder if you're facing a crazy skilled opponent, sometimes martial artist's can appear to be super-human fast in close quarters, so against David Cain, Floyd had an excuse :p
@highaccuser: Elektra was serious the entire time against lady buslleye. The hits lady bullseye got hurt her they just weren't lethal unlike the hit elektra got in. I don't think Elektra and daredevil have had a conclusive fight without context, regardless I am not saying that elektra can't beat lady bullseye I am saying lady bullseyes fight with elektra is more of a feat for lady bullseye to be honest. The only other time she held her own with a skilled fighter was against daredevil, but daredevil was a bit distracted and as you said he's stomped her before.
Here's the whole fight:
Gallery
Elektra clearly says "You're better than I hoped" after their initial exchange, then she beat her in a few panels without any evident difficulty. I don't see how that's anything other than Elektra making mincemeat out of her. I don't know if Matt and Elektra have had conclusive fights either honestly but it's pretty clear Lady Bullseye can't fight a fully functioning Matt on even ground.
@highaccuser: Elektra was serious the entire time against lady buslleye. The hits lady bullseye got hurt her they just weren't lethal unlike the hit elektra got in. I don't think Elektra and daredevil have had a conclusive fight without context, regardless I am not saying that elektra can't beat lady bullseye I am saying lady bullseyes fight with elektra is more of a feat for lady bullseye to be honest. The only other time she held her own with a skilled fighter was against daredevil, but daredevil was a bit distracted and as you said he's stomped her before.
Here's the whole fight:
Gallery
Elektra clearly says "You're better than I hoped" after their initial exchange, then she beat her in a few panels without any evident difficulty. I don't see how that's anything other than Elektra making mincemeat out of her. I don't know if Matt and Elektra have had conclusive fights either honestly but it's pretty clear Lady Bullseye can't fight a fully functioning Matt on even ground.
I have the comic. Saying she is better than she hoped doesn't mean she wasn't serious from the beginning. She started the fight saying that she is one of the few people on the planet who can best lady bullseye (I don't agree but its elektras opinion). She clearly had a high degree of respect for lady bullseye before the fight. All Elektras statement means is that lady bullseye was better than she expected and her respect for lady bullseye went up. And even after the statement lady bullseye made a few blocks. The reason the fight wasn't lengthy was because they were using weapons and all it takes is one fatal blow to end the fight and elektra just got that fatal blow.
As for the bit with daredevil again I am not arguing lady bullseye is as good as elektra. I just don't see elektra making mincemeat out of lady bullseye. Elektra won but lady bullseye held her own.
@highaccuser: Elektra was serious the entire time against lady buslleye. The hits lady bullseye got hurt her they just weren't lethal unlike the hit elektra got in. I don't think Elektra and daredevil have had a conclusive fight without context, regardless I am not saying that elektra can't beat lady bullseye I am saying lady bullseyes fight with elektra is more of a feat for lady bullseye to be honest. The only other time she held her own with a skilled fighter was against daredevil, but daredevil was a bit distracted and as you said he's stomped her before.
Here's the whole fight:
Gallery
Elektra clearly says "You're better than I hoped" after their initial exchange, then she beat her in a few panels without any evident difficulty. I don't see how that's anything other than Elektra making mincemeat out of her. I don't know if Matt and Elektra have had conclusive fights either honestly but it's pretty clear Lady Bullseye can't fight a fully functioning Matt on even ground.
I have the comic. Saying she is better than she hoped doesn't mean she wasn't serious from the beginning. She started the fight saying that she is one of the few people on the planet who can best lady bullseye (I don't agree but its elektras opinion). She clearly had a high degree of respect for lady bullseye before the fight. All Elektras statement means is that lady bullseye was better than she expected and her respect for lady bullseye went up. And even after the statement lady bullseye made a few blocks. The reason the fight wasn't lengthy was because they were using weapons and all it takes is one fatal blow to end the fight and elektra just got that fatal blow.
As for the bit with daredevil again I am not arguing lady bullseye is as good as elektra. I just don't see elektra making mincemeat out of lady bullseye. Elektra won but lady bullseye held her own.
I understand she took her seriously the whole time but it's pretty clear there was a distinct point where she took her more seriously and beat her quicker as a result. Another point I should really stress is difficulty. In the final exchange Elektra had non-existent difficulty dispatching Lady Bullseye. It's pretty clear she was better by a wide margin.
I understand she took her seriously the whole time but it's pretty clear there was a distinct point where she took her more seriously and beat her quicker as a result. Another point I should really stress is difficulty. In the final exchange Elektra had non-existent difficulty dispatching Lady Bullseye. It's pretty clear she was better by a wide margin.
I am not caught up with elektras series at the moment so no comment on their second exchange in a later issue, but in the one we are talking about elektra did have difficulty. She even commented on it. I don't see how she got more serious.
I understand she took her seriously the whole time but it's pretty clear there was a distinct point where she took her more seriously and beat her quicker as a result. Another point I should really stress is difficulty. In the final exchange Elektra had non-existent difficulty dispatching Lady Bullseye. It's pretty clear she was better by a wide margin.
I am not caught up with elektras series at the moment so no comment on their second exchange in a later issue, but in the one we are talking about elektra did have difficulty. She even commented on it. I don't see how she got more serious.
I wasn't referring to a later issue. After Elektra said, "You're better than I hoped" Lady Bullseye stopped managing to make her work for it.
Is this a new thing with battles, where someone can say another character would be better had they more appearances? I'm a little lost with the whole idea of Cain not winning because of lesser showings (as in, comic appearances) than Elektra. The idea of amount of feats being a deciding factor is a little confusing since in that case, older characters would win outright in most battles.
Shouldn't it be skill that dictates a winner in a battle? It's interesting to me as well since before Elektra's new solo, she was severely underrated as well, which this Cain character appears to be. I can't properly weigh in on this battle because of my lack of knowledge of him, so I guess I'll just stay neutral on this one.
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