Eisner Cup?

If you want one, start one. I'd take part. If you don't want to see characters of a certain power level, then restrict it. If you make it, you can set whatever limits you want.

Gimme point values for these:

Midnighter

Aspen Matthews

Terror Inc

Shiver Man

Warblade

Voodoo

3 more:

The Colonel

Ellis

A single Mandate

Everyone I like is over the limit and what's left doesn't make me feel like I'm getting enough bang for my 30 bucks.

How much would an Agent Orange or Holden Carver run me? And how do you rank psychics? Against another psychic with an established power level it's fair, but against someone with no psychic defense, even weak psychics can come out on top.

But against a non-psychic without any defense, she'd pretty much win automatically, so compared to say Warblade, she's much higher than 20.

Other than Grifter, only females are Coda, so he doesn't have any defense that way. The closest thing to any kind of mental skill that the shapers guild offers is pressure points and that's not even comparable so there's no defense there either.

The sitting duck thing is the problem. The same reason guys like Flash (extreme example, I know) aren't allowed in the competition is because they have powers that make them unstoppable. Psychics would have the same advantage unless facing another psychic. Most characters with both mental and physical strengths are >30. The ranks are fine, they just don't translate well from drastically different power types.

Let's do one and see how it goes. We can keep going and eventually we'll figure out something that works.

My team:

Midnighter

Terror Inc

Basic strategy would be to avoid Shadow Cat and work on Black Panther first. Both of my guys can easily avoid Kitty (Terror might get caught but taking damage won't really bother him) and Midnighter can work on Black Panther while Terror hangs back. I doubt Kitty would fight alongside BP since she'd just get in the way (they have no experience fighting together) so Midnighter could take him easily. After the fight, Terror would use BP for parts and then Terror could fight Kitty since I don't know what her powers might do to Midnighter. He's not a robot so it's not like she can short circuit him, but she could probably mess him up simply because he can't touch her and she can still hurt him. Like I said, Terror can take damage (plus he'd have his original parts for replacements) and Kitty can't hurt him unless she's tangible so eventually she'd slip up (he doesn't tire since no part of him is actually alive) and he'd grab her while she attacked and he'd kill her, or Midnighter would predict when she would attack and thus when she'd need to be solid and could throw a shuriken at her.

Basically: Midnighter can beat Black Panther, Midnighter & Terror can avoid Shadow Cat, and either Midnighter or Terror (with Black Panther's parts for speed/skills) could beat Shadow Cat. And if all else fails and Shadow Cat stays intangible the whole time, Terror Inc is immortal so she wouldn't outlast him.

I didn't see this tactic but if you could, so could Midnighter. Similarly, if I can think of a way to stop it, so could Midnighter.

One possible solution: Midnighter sends Terror to fight and it plays out like the fight between them and Shadow Cat in my scenario. When she/they becomes tangible to strike, Midnighter picks her off leaving Black Panther at his mercy. Superior speed, strength and the ability to predict his moves would give Midnighter the upper hand. A simple neck snap or a slow asphyxiation would beat Black Panther without needing to worry about his suit's ability to reduce impact. However, Midnighter wouldn't necessarily have to avoid it. BP has been hit through his suit before and Midnighter, with his skull crushing blows, could replicate and surpass the force needed to cause damage.

You saw that possibility but Midnighter, who is infinitely more adept at that sort of thing can't? Foolishness. He predicts from what he sees, yes, and he knows a persons upgrades/powers/whatever puts them above normal, as ones of his abilities. He'd know what Kitty can do and he'd see her on Black Panther and come up with a game plan. It's not omniscience, it's his powers working with normal vision. He'd use the same info about them that you have and see it as a possible tactic he'd have to face.

He used a door to get a jet because he didn't have a jet with him and he had to get one, plus Seth has over 1000 different super powers and was hand picked to kill The Authority so it's not the same as him fighting BP and Shadow Cat.

Terror's not quick enough to deal with Kitty, you're right, but to hit him Kitty would need to be solid, and Midnighter would know when she would attack and be ready. I'm not underestimating their strategical prowess or fighting ability, but it just isn't enough. BP would have to plan this strategy while Midnighter could just pick it up instantly, and neither of their fighting ability is near his level. Shadow Cat can't touch him (or phase him) for the same reason a normal enemy can't hit him. He knows what she's going to do if she's tangible or not, and like I've been saying, in the second she's solid to attack, he can kill her. To lay a hand (phased or not) on him, they'd have to be much faster than they are, and any time they tried, they'd be open to attack.

You don't have my vote.

Sling Shot says:

"I also don't beleive Midnighter and his escrima sticks pack the same wallop as Iron Man or Iron Fist. Skull crushing and all.Midnighter needs to be able to punch this hard:T'Challa's Vibranium-weave uniform absorbs the kinetic force of impacts, rendering him bulletproof(that includes rounds of machinegun fire). His costume's gloves can generate energy daggers and house anti-metal claws that dissolve other metals on contact. His Kimoyo Card enables global communication, picks up satellite signals, and can block most radio transmissions. His boot soles are thick Vibranium alloy pads which can vibrate at various frequencies, allowing him to run up the sides of buildings, land soundlessly and without injury from a height of 50 feet, walk on water, or slice through metal. His costume is fitted with cloaking technology, allowing it to pass as normal street clothes. He also has access to the many specialized weapons and vehicles of Wakanda. The extent of technology T'Challa has access to is believed to be limitless."

Midnighter doesn't need to punch him to win. A quick yank of his head would snap his neck and end him. I do believe he has the strength though. He's punched through people who could fly through multiple buildings unharmed.
Post Edited:2007-04-21 07:02:52

Sling Shot says:

"I also don't beleive Midnighter and his escrima sticks pack the same wallop as Iron Man or Iron Fist. Skull crushing and all.Midnighter needs to be able to punch this hard:T'Challa's Vibranium-weave uniform absorbs the kinetic force of impacts, rendering him bulletproof(that includes rounds of machinegun fire). Vibranium alloy pads which can vibrate at various frequencies, allowing him to run up the sides of buildings, land soundlessly and without injury from a height of 50 feetif I were to jump head first from fifty feet up, to the ground or something of comporable density to Midnighter's fist would my skull shatter, probably. even with that much force BP's suit doesn't even whisper let alone register damage."

Vibranium weave in the uniform but Vibranium alloy pads in the shoes. The feet have more protection, allowing him the ability to survive those jumps. The rest of his suit doesn't have pads so I wouldn't say they were as strong. The highest mark they set it against was machine gun fire. Midnighter can punch harder than that. There's actually written proof that he can punch harder than bullets but he's been shown to do harder (though it wasn't written out like the bullet thing).

Midnighter kicks tank shells. He doesn't need pads.

Sling Shot says:

"and what are Midnighter's sensory augmentations, besides battle brains?
Post Edited:2007-04-21 07:03:44"

He can see things that make a person different from average humans, so battle upgrades, powers and such. He also has heightened senses but how heightened is never shown.

Post Edited:2007-04-22 03:25:18

High and low showings for the purpose of plot are there for everyone. Going by the majority/average of his showings he'd be on the winning side in this fight.

He needed to get kidnapped because it was the only way for his solo series to work. He had to be kidnapped and under someone's control for that story. Keep in mind though that he found a way back through time and killed all those people and made them take the bomb out of his heart while he was wide awake, then killed the doctors. I'm pretty sure there was something hinky going on with the kidnapping in the first place but I don't have Midnighter #1 right here so I can't say for sure. As for Seth, (ignoring the possibility that maybe some of his undeclared powers played a factor) he survived his neck being broken and was the only member of The Authority (except for his daughter whom he saved) to escape. He was also the one that saved the rest of the team later so they could win.

Just read what we wrote and vote for you think will win. Shadow Cat & Black Panther or Midnighter and Terror Inc.

Thing is, I'm not going by only high end feats, I'm going by what he does most often, and most of the time he's easily punching through super powered people and seeing a million ways battles could play out. I've already told you perfectly good reasons for why he lost in the two instances you're bringing up. The kidnapping was necessary for his miniseries. If he wasn't kidnapped and implanted with a bomb, there'd be no reason for the story to go on, and that arc would have ended at issue #1. It was necessitated by plot. The same was true for the fight with Seth. He needed lose (as did the rest of the group) in order for that arc to start. And you're saying he got his neck snapped wrestling as if Seth wasn't built to take down guys like Midnighter and The Authority.

Looking at Midnighter #1, where he was kidnapped, now. It wasn't like he was kidnapped off the street, he was kidnapped while he was using the Carrier's Door. The Door lets him traverse reality and dimensions like nothing, but there's no way to see in it, it's just glowing yellow all around. Midnighter didn't know the guys (6 guys) were in the Door with him (they had special suits made for moving around in the Door) so he had no input to run his battle computer. By the time he knew they were in there, they already had him. So basically they got the drop on a blind man. And before you say anything about other senses, there's no reason to think they work any better than sight, besides, there's no way he can sense them if they're not actually there until the moment they attack. They weren't all in an empty space when he as taken. The 6 guys got him by basically attacking from another dimension. They were never fully in the same space he was, so it's not like he can do anything to a hand that can appear from anywhere.

Looking at it with more information, these aren't low showings for his battle computer. In the first, by attacking him in a way that made it so there was no way to know enemies were even there, the battle computer couldn't predict anything since there was no one there until the second they attacked. They only came into existence (as far as Midnighter could tell) the very moment they attacked. And with Seth he was outmatched. Like I've said, just because he knows what's going to happen doesn't mean he can always stop it. Seth was much faster and much stronger than him (not even counting his other powers) and they started out not even a foot from each other. Seth kicked him (his speed prevented Midnighter from avoiding it) and then, faster than he could recover from the kick, Seth had him in his hands (his strength prevented Midnighter from escaping). I think it might have been a low showing for Midnighter's speed, but other than that, there wasn't anything wrong with it. So even when losing for the sake of plot, he's not out of character and he's not being ambiguous. His powers are consistent (as consistent as any other character at least), he just couldn't win in those situations. He can win in this fight.

Why is no one voting?
Post Edited:2007-04-22 02:34:34

Sling Shot and I picked characters and they have to fight. We've said how we thought it would happen, now you decide who you think would win.

What exactly don't you get? If you can tell us what you don't get, we can explain it so you can vote.
Post Edited:2007-04-22 15:17:51

You could check wikipedia for Terror Inc (the CV page isn't filled out) but basically, he's a guy who can take body parts from other people and add them to his own, giving him whatever power that part had along with information from the person he took it from. For example, stealing an eye from Cyclops would give him laser vision and the memories of everything the eye had seen, and stealing an arm from Wolverine would give him not only his arm, but all the fighting skills and knowledge from that arm. His body (all the acquired parts) doesn't heal (unless they have that power) but he can use them even if they're damaged, as long as they're still connected to him. He's also immortal and really smart. He's a detective/mercenary.

I like to think that I have a better point, not just that it sounds like I do.

Terror Inc