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#1 Edited by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

Darkseid and his armies have opened boom tubes all over Earth 616, and have begun to invade. With him Darkseid has brought his Elite Guard.

Mantis

Steppenwolf

Kalibak

Devilance

Bernadeath

Bloody Mary

Lashina

Gilotina

Knockout

Supergirl
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Earth King Namor of Atlantis & King T'Challa of Wakanda are meeting with US Generals to coordinate a battle plan. They decide they can win the war if they can take down Darksied and his Elite team.
 

Earth Special Forces Roll Call:

Thor

Ms Marvel

Iron Man

Storm

Hercules

Spider Woman

Wolverine

She Hulk

Sentry

Fantastic Four

Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 BOUNS SCENARIO*: How differently would the battle play out if it was Pre-Crisis Darkseid?
#2 Posted by nickthedevil (13650 posts) - - Show Bio

pretty limited team for being an entire earth invasion from a harbringer of devastation. even so, I'll say Earth 616.

#3 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickthedevil: Well this is only the team dealing with just Darkseid and his Elite rather than the entire invasion.  What do you think gives team Earth the advantage here?
#4 Posted by nickthedevil (13650 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem: Thor and Sentry.

added to the amazing results that Doctor Strange, Reed Richards, and Tony Stark's prep time gives them.

Reed Richards has stopped Galactus from consuming earth with little Prep time by himself. with Dr. strange's Magic and Tony's Brain and resources plus the resources Reed already has at his disposal they should be able to come up with something to stop Darkseid. Darkseid isnt dealing with the Justice League anymore. he playing with the big boys now.

#5 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@nickthedevil: The issue here is that Darksied's team also has the same prep-time and intelligence advantage that the Earth team does.  On top of this Darkseid has the resources of an interplantetary empire to help his prep, and both sides only had a couple of hours prep.  Lets say 3 hours for the sake of being precise.  How do you think it would effect the outcome if it were a random encounter?
#6 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem said:

@nickthedevil: The issue here is that Darksied's team also has the same prep-time and intelligence advantage that the Earth team does. On top of this Darkseid has the resources of an interplantetary empire to help his prep, and both sides only had a couple of hours prep. Lets say 3 hours for the sake of being precise. How do you think it would effect the outcome if it were a random encounter?

I personally am of the opinion that Reed's prep would outclass Darkseid's prep by quite a margin. Another potential problem team Darkseid have is they have no way to stop sentry, perhaps KO because unless Sentry wants to die, he gets to come back , as weird as it is its still one of his cannon abilities. Shouldnt Strom gets time to attack, she can pretty much KO the entire hord of parademons (of course not the elite squad). Wolverine and Spiderwoman could pretty much sit on the sideline making out, they arent going to be any real asset on the battle anyways. If this is Hercules after his depowerment (dont know if he's godlike again) he might as well joine Wolvie and make it a three-some :)

Depending on which version of Thor you are using, he has more than enough ability to battle most of the elite himself. Depending on how stable sentry is he can take most of them out.

the real problem is, is darkseid included in the battle as well?? coz if so the only real hope for Earth 616 is prep help, else Earth 616 can win without prep help.

#7 Posted by nickthedevil (13650 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem: Random encounter? still Earth 616. by underestimating Marvel. and in 3 hours, the three brains can think tank something out to beat darkseid with.

@Killemall: your arguement is sound and you didnt even include Dr. strange, Iron man, She Hulk, Ms. marvel or the rest of the fantastic four.

#8 Posted by nickthedevil (13650 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem: i even gotta bring up one of thor's feats here: he's narrowly beat Galactus. thats pretty big when going against darkseid. this should be a cakewalk.

#9 Edited by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil said:

@kadeem: Random encounter? still Earth 616. by underestimating Marvel. and in 3 hours, the three brains can think tank something out to beat darkseid with.

@Killemall: your arguement is sound and you didnt even include Dr. strange, Iron man, She Hulk, Ms. marvel or the rest of the fantastic four.

without prep i dont see what the rest of fantastic 4 could do to the elite squad, let alone DS. Iron man seemed to be in the normal suite, i am deducing this from the pic, and he isnt going to do a lot of damage either. Unless she Hulk is savage super girl could prolly one shot her as well and thats in like 0.00001 of a sec. Unless as binary Ms. Marvel isnt going to be a very productive asset either, perhaps she could take few of the elite squad.

No one, barring Sentry (assuming either he is absolutely stable and in control of all his powers or VOIDED out) and Thor, neither is going to be very effective against superman girl or Kallibak let alone DS who's a massive massive power house. Ds might just take most ppl out with his OB as well.

But then thats just my opinion.

PS: sorry had to edit few stuffs so ur most likely going to get 2 messages instead of 1, apologies in advance.

#10 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall said:

@kadeem said:

@nickthedevil: The issue here is that Darksied's team also has the same prep-time and intelligence advantage that the Earth team does. On top of this Darkseid has the resources of an interplantetary empire to help his prep, and both sides only had a couple of hours prep. Lets say 3 hours for the sake of being precise. How do you think it would effect the outcome if it were a random encounter?

I personally am of the opinion that Reed's prep would outclass Darkseid's prep by quite a margin. Another potential problem team Darkseid have is they have no way to stop sentry, perhaps KO because unless Sentry wants to die, he gets to come back , as weird as it is its still one of his cannon abilities. Shouldnt Strom gets time to attack, she can pretty much KO the entire hord of parademons (of course not the elite squad). Wolverine and Spiderwoman could pretty much sit on the sideline making out, they arent going to be any real asset on the battle anyways. If this is Hercules after his depowerment (dont know if he's godlike again) he might as well joine Wolvie and make it a three-some :)

Depending on which version of Thor you are using, he has more than enough ability to battle most of the elite himself. Depending on how stable sentry is he can take most of them out.

the real problem is, is darkseid included in the battle as well?? coz if so the only real hope for Earth 616 is prep help, else Earth 616 can win without prep help.

 @Killemall said:

@nickthedevil said:

@kadeem: Random encounter? still Earth 616. by underestimating Marvel. and in 3 hours, the three brains can think tank something out to beat darkseid with.

@Killemall: your arguement is sound and you didnt even include Dr. strange, Iron man, She Hulk, Ms. marvel or the rest of the fantastic four.

without prep i dont see what the rest of fantastic 4 could do to the elite squad, let alone DS. Iron man seemed to be in the normal suite, i am deducing this from the pic, and he isnt going to do a lot of damage either. Unless she Hulk is savage super girl could prolly one shot her as well and thats in like 0.00001 of a sec. Unless as binary Ms. Marvel isnt going to be a very productive asset either, perhaps she could take few of the elite squad.

No one, barring Sentry (assuming either he is absolutely stable and in control of all his powers or VOIDED out) and Thor, neither is going to be very effective against superman girl or Kallibak let alone DS who's a massive massive power house. Ds might just take most ppl out with his OB as well.

But then thats just my opinion.

PS: sorry had to edit few stuffs so ur most likely going to get 2 messages instead of 1, apologies in advance.



Interesting battle analysis.  Darkseid is in fact participating in this battle as well as Namor and T'Challa.  I think with the likes of Mantis, Kalibak and Supergirl that Sentry will have his work cut out for him.  Storm can be very useful in this battle with  the right strategy, although her alone won't guarantee Earth victory by any means.  She can flash freeze opponants and if Namor is denied access to the ocean she  can make rain to replenish him.  Spider Woman's tactical and stealth capabilities will also be an asset to her team. Her hormonal powers could be useful as well in influencing her opponents behavior and decisions, and her energy blasts at point blank range should be strong enough to KO at least some of Darkseid's Elite.  Wolverine I think would be a major asset for team Earth.  His healing factor and adamantium claws would keep him in the fight for a very long while.  I wouldn't sale Logan short, he did hold his own against WW Hulk.  There are no para-demons in this battle.  I think Ms. Marvel would be especially helpful against Mantis due to her energy abortion powers. She-Hulk is in her normal state, but has the potential to Hulkout if her emotional state makes it so.    Hercules still has his powers.  The way I see Strange's role playing out in this battle is he would be the one taking on Darkseid in the beginning, while the rest of both teams are fighting each other.  do you see Strange's role playing out differently?
#11 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem: You expected Dr. Strange to take on DS alone, give the current showings of Dr. Strange thats asking a little too much off him. Besides DS might just let SG speedblitz most of them out. I am also assuming that the battle doesnt let Reed to go grab some dangerous weapons, like say UN and nullify everyone out of existence because if Thor can prevent SG from speedblitzing Reed, and he gets a one shot at DS he'll be erased out of existence :) then its game over.

I still think DS has more advantage in this battle. Although it finally comes down to Sentry, the most inconsistent character in a battle..

#12 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall: I agree with you about current Doctor Strange. I labeled him as Sorcerer Supreme in the OP though to indicate this is him before his power down.   Your right, Reed can't access the Ultimate Nullifier.  Supergirl usually doesn't speed blitz immediately in the beginning of the battle.  It may actually be difficult for Kara to KO Reed as well because of his plasticity, Reed usually just morphs back from blunt force attacks.  I agree it is very hard to predict what Sentry would do in this battle, especially if he snaps and switches to Void mode.
#13 Posted by Enzeru--defunct (2923 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem said:
It may actually be difficult for Kara to KO Reed as well because of his plasticity, Reed usually just morphs back from blunt force attacks. 
 
Many things during the World War Hulk arc were pure PIS. Judge for yourself what to think about the moment where the Hulk beat the crap out of Reed Richards who wasn't easily able to shrug off Hulk's attacks. He was lying on the ground and bleeding after the beating was over. 

I agree it is very hard to predict what Sentry would do in this battle, especially if he snaps and switches to Void mode. 
 
Tell me in which mental state he is and I will tell you :D
#14 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Enzeru: I agree about the severe injury to Reed in WW hulk being pis. Sentry is in control of himself and stable as the battle begins, but do you think anything could happen in this battle to throw him off balance?
#15 Posted by Enzeru--defunct (2923 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem said:
@Enzeru: I agree about the severe injury to Reed in WW hulk being pis. Sentry is in control of himself and stable as the battle begins, but do you think anything could happen in this battle to throw him off balance?
Can't imagine what. 
A stable Sentry is so powerful that even the Void can't take over, so he has to manifest himself as a separate entity to do his evil, twisted things.  

Sentry was the first superhero on the earth who was doing good and schooling the others.
That means that he was there during the times of classic Thor and classic Dr. Strange. There are also many hints which support that like the fact that Void gave Spider-Man a breakdown who was seeing Gwen Stacy who was still alive and he saw a redhead which would come into his live in the future and so on.
Not even classic Thor and classic Dr. Strange were capable of defeating the Void, but Sentry was. Then there was also the Galactus stalemate, even though maybe people don't take that one too seriously, because they want actual feats and ignore the fact that the first Sentry volume was telling the story of the character and not really only concentrating on the feats, but still stating them. The same goes for the Volume 2, even though there was more action.
#16 Posted by YoungGunna (2439 posts) - - Show Bio

If the prep time for Darkseid allows him for access to his tech and knowledge on the other team, than DS and his forces should take it( this really isn't anything new for him, he has already conquered DC Earth, countless pantheons, and at one point the entire universe with his forces).. I don't see how Earth's miltary would stand even the slightest chance against the Parademons, they can't die, are virtually unlimited in numbers, just one proved to be the clear physical superior to Bats and could make Superman grunt with a punch( which is impressive somewhat i would guess) and as a whole they have some pretty decent accomplishments like conquering/enslaving a large number of Green Martians and absolutely routing Paradise Island with ease... Match up wise Mantis, Supergirl and Stepponwolf could take it to any of them but Strange, Void, and Thor. Darkseid is just a terrible matchup for Thor, he could dimension dump his hammer into Oblivion(where it would be unable to find its way back to Thor) then put him down with the beams.. No one on Darkseid's team could really put down Strange or Void with there own powers but thats were his tech comes into play. To deal with Strange, since DS doesn't really like to get his hands dirty he would likely equipt one( or a couple) of his elite with a merlin like Gwydion the Merlin of Living Language( they easily alter the fabric of reality itself) which has allowed a powerless Zatanna to go toe to toe with the Spectre villian Zachery Zor and break the Fourth wall itself. And I don't believe Void is above being affected by reality warping or time manipulating tech which Darkseid has a vast array of.... Also, what puts Reed above Darkseid in planning, strategy wise?

#17 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungGunna said:

If the prep time for Darkseid allows him for access to his tech and knowledge on the other team, than DS and his forces should take it( this really isn't anything new for him, he has already conquered DC Earth, countless pantheons, and at one point the entire universe with his forces).. I don't see how Earth's miltary would stand even the slightest chance against the Parademons, they can't die, are virtually unlimited in numbers, just one proved to be the clear physical superior to Bats and could make Superman grunt with a punch( which is impressive somewhat i would guess) and as a whole they have some pretty decent accomplishments like conquering/enslaving a large number of Green Martians and absolutely routing Paradise Island with ease... Match up wise Mantis, Supergirl and Stepponwolf could take it to any of them but Strange, Void, and Thor. Darkseid is just a terrible matchup for Thor, he could dimension dump his hammer into Oblivion(where it would be unable to find its way back to Thor) then put him down with the beams.. No one on Darkseid's team could really put down Strange or Void with there own powers but thats were his tech comes into play. To deal with Strange, since DS doesn't really like to get his hands dirty he would likely equipt one( or a couple) of his elite with a merlin like Gwydion the Merlin of Living Language( they easily alter the fabric of reality itself) which has allowed a powerless Zatanna to go toe to toe with the Spectre villian Zachery Zor and break the Fourth wall itself. And I don't believe Void is above being affected by reality warping or time manipulating tech which Darkseid has a vast array of.... Also, what puts Reed above Darkseid in planning, strategy wise?

He did mention that here were no para-demons involved.

The things Reed Richards have achieved out of prep are just amazing and i have never heard of DS being stated so highly when it comes to prep. the kind of gizmo Reed has, could put most of DS weapons to shame. One of which is the ultimate nullifier and another is bunch of infinity gems.

I would have made a good case for void, and so would have Enzeru, however Void is not involved in this battle so i'll limit my discussion there.

No body matched up darksied with Thor, even i would agree so. But, he intended Dr. Strange BEFORE his depowerment to be a match up for darksied, which might as well be a interesting battle.

I personally am backing up team DS so win, but i dont think it is as one sided as ur making it up to be.

#18 Edited by demifiend (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

earth 616 thanks to prep time. 
with out prep time earth loses horrible

#19 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@demifiend said:

earth 616 thanks to prep time. with out prep time earth loses horrible

I agree with this one :)

#20 Posted by TifaLockhart (14117 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: I am not saying he loses or disputing the fact that he is a genius, but did he invent the Ultimate Nullifier and/or the Infinity Gems? Again, I'm not questioning you, I'm legitimately asking as I don't know.

I thought the Nulifier used to belong to Galactus, and the gems were remnants of a powerful being.

#21 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

@Killemall: I am not saying he loses or disputing the fact that he is a genius, but did he invent the Ultimate Nullifier and/or the Infinity Gems? Again, I'm not questioning you, I'm legitimately asking as I don't know.

I thought the Nulifier used to belong to Galactus, and the gems were remnants of a powerful being.

OF course no, Nulifier belonged to galactus and gems were never invented. but what i meant is that Reed has access to all of them, UN is in Reed's possession and as a member of illumanity he has access to gems to , which at the moment are in illumanities possession.

#22 Posted by TifaLockhart (14117 posts) - - Show Bio

OK. But doesn't the Nullifier kill the user as well?

#23 Posted by Enzeru--defunct (2923 posts) - - Show Bio
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

I thought the Nulifier used to belong to Galactus, and the gems were remnants of a powerful being.

That's true. Human Torch stole it from Galactus.
And that powerful being was Nemesis, if I'm not wrong.
 
There is still no doubt that Reed Richards created some fancy things over the years.
Wasn't he the one who also created a Cosmic Cube? I feel like I was reading something like that few days ago.
#24 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

@Enzeru said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

I thought the Nulifier used to belong to Galactus, and the gems were remnants of a powerful being.

That's true. Human Torch stole it from Galactus.And that powerful being was Nemesis, if I'm not wrong. There is still no doubt that Reed Richards created some fancy things over the years. Wasn't he the one who also created a Cosmic Cube? I feel like I was reading something like that few days ago.

The cosmic cubes were actually created by extra-dimensional beings.

#25 Posted by YoungGunna (2439 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Ok this is the part where you find anywhere in my post where I stated that Apokolips takes this easily???... And I don't know why you even addressed me concerning the Parademons because the OP specifically says there fighting the Earths military, which was the only thing I addressed about them, therefore your response to that was pointless... If your so convinced than go ahead and tell me what puts Reed's prep above Darkseid's?... Reed having the ultimate nulifier is good an all but have you ever heard of Worgolog or the Genesis box? And Reed putting Darkseid's tech to shame, I mean are you serious? Let me personally give you a rundown on exactly what New God tech is capable of: First there's the Mother/Fatherboxes which literally does whatever the plot calls for; we've seen them in Seven Soldiers create a entire magical dimension, for a long time Billy used it to transform into Captain Marvel when the wizard had lost his power, it instructed and allowed Swamp Thing to change the way his energy matrix oscillated so that he and Metron could penetrate/travel through the source and space/time, has enhanced Mr Miracle's(I believe it was him) senses to such an extent that it allowed him to "know" and "feel" that the Flash was coming and exactly how/when to attack, armed Superman with a bunch of crazy weapons to do battle with Doomsday, Klarion armed with just a fatherbox was capable of instantly conquering Sheeda etc...... Now that was just one of many, here's more-- weapons that destroy massive stars or focus them into cosmic scale lasers, weapons that absorb the bio energy of planets, devices to control Prometheans(essentially weaponized Celestials), devices that unmake the unverse, warp reality, weaponize and condense the mass of galaxies, bridge time and space, badly injure AM with a single blast ect.. Seven Soldiers flatly showed that 40,000 years ago the New Gods were capable of easily creating god-creatures capable of jumping through universes, his fields are capable of halting the godwave empowered Ares in his tracks, Apokolips has automated defenses that can drive away PC Mon-El, "Darkseid Bots" that can take on the entire Secret Society of Super Villians, computer viruses that can destroy Amazo in seconds, biological viruses that removes super powers, drugs that turn people into Hulks and than suicide bombs, moon sized artificial labs, "Merlins" capable of breaking the Fourth Wall and doing battle with a Spectre level foe, hammers that break atoms, multiple planet destroying things the size of briefcases, bullets that shoot through time as well as space, prison planet weapons capable of keeping all of Earth's super villians fighting for there lives, oh and total control and undertanding of Hypertime-- Your Turn?.... What is the point of you telling me that "nobody matched darkseid with thor"? This is a team battle and I was just listing possible matchups and how they would go. And where does it state in the OP that Darkseid has to face Strange? Again your assuming things and I honestly didn't get the point of the majority of your response to me.

#26 Posted by TifaLockhart (14117 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungGunna: Yikes. Remind me never to cross you in a debate.

Nicely done.

#27 Edited by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungGunna:@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: I didn't say that it would necessarily be Strange vs Darkseid in the OP. I did say in an earlier comment that I think the fight would most likely play out with Strange taking on Darkseid from the beginning while the others fight. If other people see other possibilities for how the battle will go down they are welcome to bring that into the conversation.

#28 Posted by nickthedevil (13650 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: The Ultimate Nullifer did belong to Galactus. it was a machine galactus used to suck the planets energy. Reed made a major overhaul on it.

#29 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

@nickthedevil: What could the UN do differently after Reed overhauled it?

#30 Posted by nickthedevil (13650 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem said:

@Enzeru said:

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

I thought the Nulifier used to belong to Galactus, and the gems were remnants of a powerful being.

That's true. Human Torch stole it from Galactus.And that powerful being was Nemesis, if I'm not wrong. There is still no doubt that Reed Richards created some fancy things over the years. Wasn't he the one who also created a Cosmic Cube? I feel like I was reading something like that few days ago.

The cosmic cubes were actually created by extra-dimensional beings.

No? AIM made the cosmic cube.

#31 Posted by the darknessss (2750 posts) - - Show Bio

thor herc sentry will take some stopping,i think earth might pull it off. thor can hold darkseid on his own,if its classic strange he will solo.

#32 Posted by progenitor (7551 posts) - - Show Bio

Earth 616 Team ftw.

#33 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

@progenitor said:

Earth 616 Team ftw.

What do you think gives team 616 the edge?

#34 Posted by MagneticTempest (229 posts) - - Show Bio
Earth 616 wins, because despite theses guys ....

Earth Special Forces Roll Call:
 Thor

 Ms Marvel

 Iron Man

 Storm

Hercules

 Spider Woman

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 Wolverine

She Hulk

Sentry

Fantastic Four

 Doctor Strange: Sorcerer Supreme

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 Battle Intelligence:  While the Earth's militaries are battling para-demons around the planet, Black Panther & Namor's team are ready to take down Darkseid and his Elite in the coast a\of an evacuated NYC.  Wakandan Special Ops. has been able to gather intel on their opponents strengths and weaknesses, but Darkseid and his Elite have the same advantage. Who wins?
 
 
 There are people like Magneto, Doom, Apocalypse and other fractions that have their own armies and strategies.
#35 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

@MagneticTempest: If we limit our scope of focus onto the combatants mentioned in the OP who do you think will win?

#36 Posted by MagneticTempest (229 posts) - - Show Bio
@kadeem: Marvel. Not only because you have power houses, but also because you have some of the most brilliant tacticians and strategists. You also have a Dr. Strange in here as the Sorcerer Supreme, so he can summon millions of powerful demons and demigods to help the cause.
#37 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@MagneticTempest: Strange can't summon an army into this battle since it is limited to the characters mentioned in the OP.  I think all your  other points here are valid though.  I also added a bonus scenario.  How differently do you think things will go in the second scenario?
#38 Posted by HolySerpent (12727 posts) - - Show Bio

Im going with darksied and his elite. And the UN will kill reed also if he uses it

#39 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@HolySerpent said:

Im going with darksied and his elite. And the UN will kill reed also if he uses it

Why would UN kill REED if he used it, he did use it to repair the universe after it was nearly destroyed by Arbax whch didnt seem to kill him??]

@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

OK. But doesn't the Nullifier kill the user as well?

Sorry man didnt see the reply, Un only destroys the users only if he/she doesnt know how to use it. Un has use UN before and wasnt destroyed.

@YoungGunna said:

@Killemall: Ok this is the part where you find anywhere in my post where I stated that Apokolips takes this easily???... And I don't know why you even addressed me concerning the Parademons because the OP specifically says there fighting the Earths military, which was the only thing I addressed about them, therefore your response to that was pointless... If your so convinced than go ahead and tell me what puts Reed's prep above Darkseid's?... Reed having the ultimate nulifier is good an all but have you ever heard of Worgolog or the Genesis box? And Reed putting Darkseid's tech to shame, I mean are you serious? Let me personally give you a rundown on exactly what New God tech is capable of: First there's the Mother/Fatherboxes which literally does whatever the plot calls for; we've seen them in Seven Soldiers create a entire magical dimension, for a long time Billy used it to transform into Captain Marvel when the wizard had lost his power, it instructed and allowed Swamp Thing to change the way his energy matrix oscillated so that he and Metron could penetrate/travel through the source and space/time, has enhanced Mr Miracle's(I believe it was him) senses to such an extent that it allowed him to "know" and "feel" that the Flash was coming and exactly how/when to attack, armed Superman with a bunch of crazy weapons to do battle with Doomsday, Klarion armed with just a fatherbox was capable of instantly conquering Sheeda etc...... Now that was just one of many, here's more-- weapons that destroy massive stars or focus them into cosmic scale lasers, weapons that absorb the bio energy of planets, devices to control Prometheans(essentially weaponized Celestials), devices that unmake the unverse, warp reality, weaponize and condense the mass of galaxies, bridge time and space, badly injure AM with a single blast ect.. Seven Soldiers flatly showed that 40,000 years ago the New Gods were capable of easily creating god-creatures capable of jumping through universes, his fields are capable of halting the godwave empowered Ares in his tracks, Apokolips has automated defenses that can drive away PC Mon-El, "Darkseid Bots" that can take on the entire Secret Society of Super Villians, computer viruses that can destroy Amazo in seconds, biological viruses that removes super powers, drugs that turn people into Hulks and than suicide bombs, moon sized artificial labs, "Merlins" capable of breaking the Fourth Wall and doing battle with a Spectre level foe, hammers that break atoms, multiple planet destroying things the size of briefcases, bullets that shoot through time as well as space, prison planet weapons capable of keeping all of Earth's super villians fighting for there lives, oh and total control and undertanding of Hypertime-- Your Turn?.... What is the point of you telling me that "nobody matched darkseid with thor"? This is a team battle and I was just listing possible matchups and how they would go. And where does it state in the OP that Darkseid has to face Strange? Again your assuming things and I honestly didn't get the point of the majority of your response to me.

I didn’t even see your reply on the inbox, shame it took me few weeks to reply back, apologies in advance.

Here are few points i would like to clear out:

1. The reason i mention the stuffs about Para-demons because you mentioned earth military would have no chance and i assumed you were talking about the squad fighting them. Misunderstanding from my side.

2. The reason i believed you thought this was a one sided battle is because u mentioned: this is nothing new for darkseid because he has conquered Dc earth and the entire universe with his force.

3. Space and time can also be controlled by the gems that reed possesses, and there are other gems with other powers too i know i don’t have to give you a run down to it.

4. Un can nullify everything in the universe and has been long accepted that is capable of destroying universes with ease, so i don’t see anything on darkseid that’s more powerful than Un.

5. Destroying star =/= destroying and repairing Universe.

6. Reality gems lets to control reality, which Reed has so what happened 40,000 years ago is neither relevant not impressive.

7. Which darkseid bots would stand a chance against either Un or the gems?

8. Once again planets <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< universe

9. Nobody matched Darkseid with thor, i don’t think u understood my point, what i meant was like you nobody here think thor would be a good match for darkseid because of course darkseid is more powerful .. chill dude!

10. It doesn’t say in the OP that Darkseid has to face strange, but Kadeem who created this thread replied to me that he intended he wanted Dr. Strange to face Darkseid, which i responded by saying it would be overkill. I don’t understand what assumptions are we talking about here??????

Once again, sorry i did not see you response on my inbox i am replying after three weeks, no offence intended, i was just stating my opinion all in good faith.

#40 Posted by Chaos Prime (10857 posts) - - Show Bio

Imo this will be a huge task for Marvel 616 because of the different power set from DS & his Elite band.In Mantis alone u have a guy that could take down half of that Marvel roster..
But with the Good Doctor u do have the Defence here to keep them at bay allowing imo Marvel to just take the win after one hell of an encounter..

#41 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@Chaos Prime said:

Imo this will be a huge task for Marvel 616 because of the different power set from DS & his Elite band.In Mantis alone u have a guy that could take down half of that Marvel roster.. But with the Good Doctor u do have the Defence here to keep them at bay allowing imo Marvel to just take the win after one hell of an encounter..

I can respect that opinion, i however was of the opinon that team DS wins this is because i dont see anyone on team Earth 616 who could fight Darkseid.

#42 Posted by Chaos Prime (10857 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall said:

@Chaos Prime said:

Imo this will be a huge task for Marvel 616 because of the different power set from DS & his Elite band.In Mantis alone u have a guy that could take down half of that Marvel roster.. But with the Good Doctor u do have the Defence here to keep them at bay allowing imo Marvel to just take the win after one hell of an encounter..

I can respect that opinion, i however was of the opinon that team DS wins this is because i dont see anyone on team Earth 616 who could fight Darkseid.

Depends imo if the Good Doctor gets the time to engage DS..Then he does have the tools imo to restrain DS which could have a huge moral effect on the elites..
#43 Posted by TifaLockhart (14117 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Pythia involved in this?

#44 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio
@Chaos Prime said:
@Killemall said:

@Chaos Prime said:

Imo this will be a huge task for Marvel 616 because of the different power set from DS & his Elite band.In Mantis alone u have a guy that could take down half of that Marvel roster.. But with the Good Doctor u do have the Defence here to keep them at bay allowing imo Marvel to just take the win after one hell of an encounter..

I can respect that opinion, i however was of the opinon that team DS wins this is because i dont see anyone on team Earth 616 who could fight Darkseid.

Depends imo if the Good Doctor gets the time to engage DS..Then he does have the tools imo to restrain DS which could have a huge moral effect on the elites..
I agree that Mantis would be a formidable opponent, but I do not think team 616 would be defenseless against him.  Mjolnir and Ms. Marvel both have energy absorbing capabilities, which would be very useful against Mantis.  The good Doctor at his classic power levels which he has in this fight has taken down Dormammu, Umar, Loki, and Shuma-Gorath.  Regardless of who would win a fight between Darkseid and the Sorcerer Supreme they would both have their work cut out for them.  Darkseid's team isn't used to seeing people hold their own against Darkseid, so seeing The Sorcerer Supreme going all out may very well be intimidating for them.
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia said:

Is Pythia involved in this?


Sorry no Pythia.
#45 Posted by SexualLobster (995 posts) - - Show Bio

Sentry, Thor and Doctor Strange take this on their own I say.

#46 Edited by YoungGunna (2439 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall:  

   I didn’t even see your reply on the inbox, shame it took me few weeks to reply back, apologies in advance.

That's more of my fault, i was on my phone at that time and couldn't send the reply directly to your inbox.  
 

   1. The reason i mention the stuffs about Para-demons because you mentioned earth military would have no chance and i assumed you were talking about the squad fighting them. Misunderstanding from my side.    

  No worries .... 

 
    2. The reason i believed you thought this was a one sided battle is because u mentioned: this is nothing new for darkseid because he has conquered Dc earth and the entire universe with his force.   
 
All I stated was the truth... I mean Darkseid with his army has already succeeded in something similar to this on a couple of occasions..
Were you made the assumption at was me saying they take this battle easily, which I never stated...  It's according to which version of Darkseid and Apokolips this is, to judge how easily they take it. There is no one Darkseid and Apokolips, just different manifestations. The manifestation Doomsday faced was one of the lower versions, Jurgens' idea of "Apokolips" was some random stormtroopers. Not a single notable god, just stormtroopers, they would probably lose. Most other versions (like the versions who humbled the Olympians, humbled the Green Lantern Corps, routed Paradise Island with ease, conquered Earth and with it the universe itself with pure forces ect.) take this.
   

   3. Space and time can also be controlled by the gems that reed possesses, and there are other gems with other powers too i know i don’t have to give you a run down to it.  

  How much efficiency  does Reed have using the gems? Cause quite frankly DS and his troops have plenty not to mention he could supply each one of his elites with weapons just as powerful as only ONE of Reeds gems, he would be greatly outnumbered ...  

 
   4. Un can nullify everything in the universe and has been long accepted that is capable of destroying universes with ease, so i don’t see anything on darkseid that’s more powerful than Un.
 
Again you must have never heard of the Worlogog or the genesis box... 

Similar to the IG, the Worlogog casually alters reality on a universal scale, Extant was able to use it to destroy and create timelines that conformed to his whims. Was only defeated because his Worlogog was imperfect.
The genesis box is something that can be mass produced and has destroyed the universe with a "whisper".  
 
   5. Destroying star =/= destroying and repairing Universe. 
What exactly are you saying here?
  
   6. Reality gems lets to control reality, which Reed has so what happened 40,000 years ago is neither relevant not impressive. 
Again those gems would be greatly outnumbered and out powered with DS's squad actually having experience wielding them.
 
 

   7. Which darkseid bots would stand a chance against either Un or the gems?

I never stated that the Darkseid bots would duke it out with the UN or the gems.

   8. Once again planets <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< universe  
 
Already been addressed, Reed isn't the only one with weapons that can effect the universe. 
   
   9. Nobody matched Darkseid with thor, i don’t think u understood my point, what i meant was like you nobody here think thor would be a good match for darkseid because of course darkseid is more powerful .. chill dude!
 Again, was just listing match ups and I'm cool. 
 
   10. It doesn’t say in the OP that Darkseid has to face strange, but Kadeem who created this thread replied to me that he intended he wanted Dr. Strange to face Darkseid, which i responded by saying it would be overkill. I don’t understand what assumptions are we talking about                     here?????? 
 
Kadeem never sated Darkseid has to face Strange in the OP though, he even replied to me saying he didn't... 
I'm not going to list the assumptions you made, you can figure that part for yourself...
#47 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungGunna said:

@Killemall:

I didn’t even see your reply on the inbox, shame it took me few weeks to reply back, apologies in advance.

That's more of my fault, i was on my phone at that time and couldn't send the reply directly to your inbox.

1. The reason i mention the stuffs about Para-demons because you mentioned earth military would have no chance and i assumed you were talking about the squad fighting them. Misunderstanding from my side.

No worries ....


2. The reason i believed you thought this was a one sided battle is because u mentioned: this is nothing new for darkseid because he has conquered Dc earth and the entire universe with his force.

All I stated was the truth... I mean Darkseid with his army has already succeeded in something similar to this on a couple of occasions..
Were you made the assumption at was me saying they take this battle easily, which I never stated... It's according to which version of Darkseid and Apokolips this is, to judge how easily they take it. There is no one Darkseid and Apokolips, just different manifestations. The manifestation Doomsday faced was one of the lower versions, Jurgens' idea of "Apokolips" was some random stormtroopers. Not a single notable god, just stormtroopers, they would probably lose. Most other versions (like the versions who humbled the Olympians, humbled the Green Lantern Corps, routed Paradise Island with ease, conquered Earth and with it the universe itself with pure forces ect.) take this.

3. Space and time can also be controlled by the gems that reed possesses, and there are other gems with other powers too i know i don’t have to give you a run down to it.

How much efficiency does Reed have using the gems? Cause quite frankly DS and his troops have plenty not to mention he could supply each one of his elites with weapons just as powerful as only ONE of Reeds gems, he would be greatly outnumbered ...


4. Un can nullify everything in the universe and has been long accepted that is capable of destroying universes with ease, so i don’t see anything on darkseid that’s more powerful than Un.

Again you must have never heard of the Worlogog or the genesis box...

Similar to the IG, the Worlogog casually alters reality on a universal scale, Extant was able to use it to destroy and create timelines that conformed to his whims. Was only defeated because his Worlogog was imperfect.
The genesis box is something that can be mass produced and has destroyed the universe with a "whisper".

5. Destroying star =/= destroying and repairing Universe.
What exactly are you saying here?

6. Reality gems lets to control reality, which Reed has so what happened 40,000 years ago is neither relevant not impressive.
Again those gems would be greatly outnumbered and out powered with DS's squad actually having experience wielding them.

7. Which darkseid bots would stand a chance against either Un or the gems?

I never stated that the Darkseid bots would duke it out with the UN or the gems.

8. Once again planets <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< universe

Already been addressed, Reed isn't the only one with weapons that can effect the universe.

9. Nobody matched Darkseid with thor, i don’t think u understood my point, what i meant was like you nobody here think thor would be a good match for darkseid because of course darkseid is more powerful .. chill dude!
Again, was just listing match ups and I'm cool.

10. It doesn’t say in the OP that Darkseid has to face strange, but Kadeem who created this thread replied to me that he intended he wanted Dr. Strange to face Darkseid, which i responded by saying it would be overkill. I don’t understand what assumptions are we talking about here?????? Kadeem never sated Darkseid has to face Strange in the OP though, he even replied to me saying he didn't... I'm not going to list the assumptions you made, you can figure that part for yourself...

Thanks for the reply.

I still feel we are not looking eye to eye one few points.

Second part was a wrong assumption on my part apologies on that.

The third part is where I totally disagree because of the following reason:

Possession of the gems is all that is required to access powers to it and intelligence is what determines how well you can use the gems as demonstrated by thanos.

Secondly I totally disagree that any of darkseid’s weapons are potent enough as compared to gems even when not used togethers LT has made it such that 5 gems cannot be used together which however is totally not required

If reed just used the space gems he gets unlimited speed this is because runner with only one gem, without knowing how to use it has unlimited speed. Add to the fact that he has a UN with him unlimited speed means he can just use UN before anyone can stop him and nothing darsied has in his possession can stop the a un.

Time gem by itself can age and deage anyone anytime like thanos showed in the Thanos Quest saga were he aged Runner, which is meant to be immortal to near death and then again made him a child. What stops Reed from doing the same to the entire Apokolips?? Coz we know that no tech can prevent a gem from working.

Worlogog is indeed very powerful but it is currently in the possession of Justice Legion Hourman to be exact and not with Darkseid.

Sorry I though u meant Darkseid bots were meant to counter UN or infinity gems sorry my mistake.

I see we had more of a misunderstanding than anything else apologies from my part.

#48 Posted by kadeem (2870 posts) - - Show Bio

@YoungGunna: @Killemall: In this battle while Reed does have some prep time he only has access to the regular means that team 616 has at their disposal, which excludes the gems. Personally if I was a member of team 616 I would be thinking that the Earth's salvation lied more in the combination of Reed, Tony, and T'Challa's minds being backed by the resources of Wakandan super science.

#49 Posted by Killemall (18640 posts) - - Show Bio

@kadeem said:

@YoungGunna: @Killemall: In this battle while Reed does have some prep time he only has access to the regular means that team 616 has at their disposal, which excludes the gems. Personally if I was a member of team 616 I would be thinking that the Earth's salvation lied more in the combination of Reed, Tony, and T'Challa's minds being backed by the resources of Wakandan super science.

That you for the reply but i feel resources of Wakanda isn’t going to do jack because their most impressive resource was the vibranium reserve most of which have now been destroyed thanks to Dr. Doom. Besides I firmly believe Apokolips technology >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> technology in Wakanda.

So I am of the opinion that Apokolips takes the majority. I , however, have one doubt when you were talking about Dr. Strange you mentioned him beating Dormammu , shuma Gorath etc. that would be classic Dr. Strange and not current. If you intended to pit in classic strange he might as well solo this because he has, with prep, defeated the inbetweener , which ease, who is meant to be close to galactus in terms of power level.

#50 Edited by YoungGunna (2439 posts) - - Show Bio
@Killemall:  

   The third part is where I totally disagree because of the following reason:

   Possession of the gems is all that is required to access powers to it and intelligence is what determines how well you can use the gems as demonstrated by thanos.

   Ok, I'll take your word for that.... 
 

   Secondly I totally disagree that any of darkseid’s weapons are potent enough as compared to gems even when not used togethers LT has made it such that 5 gems cannot be used together which however is totally not required

 
 A New God trinket capable of destroying universes "with a whisper" can't compare to the gems???   
If were talking personal power weapons DS has plenty, like star-destroying weaponry which would be the Impactor, during the great war. They also had devices which turned suns into giant, cosmic lasers during that war. Darkseid has destroyed planets from different Solar Systems by pressing a button.  And during the 70s and 80s he linked his own heartbeat to that of the sun, so that if he was killed the sun would go nova.
 And if your saying that Reed can only access one of the gems here, than he's screwed..  
 

   If reed just used the space gems he gets unlimited speed this is because runner with only one gem, without knowing how to use it has unlimited speed. 

   
Darkseid has shown to have plenty counters for speed: 
-  DS has gravity devices that can  weaponize and condense the mass of galaxies that casually stopped Superman in his tracks. - The AIR itself can become a weapon for Darkseid..   
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 
 
 
 - Psi-Factoid intelligence allows intimate knowledge of any attacks directed against him. Comes in handy preventing someone like Reed from performing any surprise attacks. 
- Another New God tech for stopping speed is the The Imagem Projector, which warps reality in a limited amount of space to disable attackers.
- Devilance the Pursuer is capable turning an entire planet into one giant death trap that REACTS to POWER, the more powerful the being, the more dangerous the response...  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
- This is Steppenwolf, here he pretty well outmatches a Bart Allen (Flash) who has the ENTIRE Speed Force in his body. Bart eventually uses tricks to win, but obviously feels overmatched the entire time. 
http://img180.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13be5.jpg
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  -The motherbox has already shown that it can  enhance it's user's senses to such an extent that it allows them to "know" and "feel" that the Flash was coming and exactly how/when to attack. Speed wouldn't be a problem to anyone of them...
 
     Add to the fact that he has a UN with him unlimited speed means he can just use UN before anyone can stop him and nothing darsied has in his possession can stop the a un.   
 
There's defiantly plenty of ways for DS;s crew to counter speed and Reed has nothing in his possession  that can stop the Worlogog. 
I could also say that Darkseid immobilizes there entire team and then one shots them all with god killing UNIVERSAL BULLETS or a gun that sends beings into the Source itself. Pretty much can’t be defended against, if one gets hit by it or the gun  we saw the fatherbox materialize, out of nowhere/nothing, that would have killed Darkseid with one shot....  
The first two scans are out of order:
 

   Time gem by itself can age and deage anyone anytime like thanos showed in the Thanos Quest saga were he aged Runner, which is meant to be immortal to near death and then again made him a child. What stops Reed from doing the same to the entire Apokolips??

  
New Gods having total control over Hyper time, Darkseid having tech where Time and Space are meaningless concepts( such as Boom Tubes) and already facing foes with immense Time manipulation abilities( GL Corps) makes this ineffective....   
 

   Coz we know that no tech can prevent a gem from working.

 
 Actually, Darkseid could stop Reed with any of the gems dead in his tracks like he did against Ares w/ godwave( which is easily on any of the gems level) when he froze him solid in a field, trapped like a fly...

   Worlogog is indeed very powerful but it is currently in the possession of Justice Legion Hourman to be exact and not with Darkseid.

 
I was under the impression that this was Pre flashpoint versions of Darkseid and Apokolips since this battle would be pointless if not, due to NO feats...