#1 Posted by Wario88 (1619 posts) - - Show Bio

Who wins in an all out battle?

#2 Posted by Enigmaxx (8 posts) - - Show Bio

PS

#3 Posted by Wario88 (1619 posts) - - Show Bio

Why?

#4 Posted by Enigmaxx (8 posts) - - Show Bio

Because at full power he can hang with the Spectre

#5 Posted by King Saturn (223834 posts) - - Show Bio
Phantom Stranger for the win... it would be an interesting battle
#6 Posted by theDCkid (874 posts) - - Show Bio

Phantom stranger wins.

#7 Posted by AngryHulks (3001 posts) - - Show Bio

Phantom Stranger, more feats, and have mystical attack, something Manhanttan never show resistance to.

#8 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

Phantom Stranger curbstomps.

#9 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

PS stomps hard.... IIRC, PS is on par with LT and Beyonder....Dr.Manhatthan at best is only Spectre levl...

#10 Posted by dondave (34705 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan said:

PS stomps hard.... IIRC, PS is on par with LT and Beyonder....Dr.Manhatthan at best is only Spectre levl...

Phantom Stranger isn't anywhere near their level, his main ability is that he can't die, he's probably around or near the Spectre's level

#11 Posted by Bane_of_sith (2780 posts) - - Show Bio

Can someone post a way PS wins,,not just say who he is comparable to.

#12 Posted by isaac_clarke (5448 posts) - - Show Bio

Now this is a thread that should be locked.

#13 Posted by cooljammy18 (839 posts) - - Show Bio

@GodDamnIronMan said:

PS stomps hard.... IIRC, PS is on par with LT and Beyonder....Dr.Manhatthan at best is only Spectre levl...

No, he isn't.

#14 Posted by Whitelightning1234 (11 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr. Manhattan stomps.

#15 Posted by SavageDragon (2248 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Manhattan wins. His control of energy and manipulation down to matter itself is an extension of his will. He can see the future, he can see the past as one giant stream of consciousness. He wins because in an all out battle he can see PS future actions and will act in such a way that will speed up whatever it takes to bring about PS's demise sooner, rather than later. A huge part of Manhattans character is about his perception of time, he feels no need to alter what he has already seen. I would argue in an all out battle, his perception of time gives him the edge.

#16 Posted by X_insignia1 (1374 posts) - - Show Bio

@dondave said:

@GodDamnIronMan said:

PS stomps hard.... IIRC, PS is on par with LT and Beyonder....Dr.Manhatthan at best is only Spectre levl...

Phantom Stranger isn't anywhere near their level, his main ability is that he can't die, he's probably around or near the Spectre's level

Put the crack pipe down guy. Don't spew such crappery. Furthermore, PS takes this rather easily.

#17 Posted by dondave (34705 posts) - - Show Bio

@X_insignia1: what exactly

#18 Posted by xeon1cs (1479 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, can Phantom Stranger actually do things without getting all of his power taken away from now him?

#19 Posted by Dextersinister (5803 posts) - - Show Bio

@Bane_of_sith said:

Can someone post a way PS wins,,not just say who he is comparable to.

He had a punch up with the Specter before God talked through a Terrier and told them both to stop getting on like children, his power's are very vague but he can stop time.

#20 Posted by beatboks1 (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

@xeon1cs said:

Wait, can Phantom Stranger actually do things without getting all of his power taken away from now him?

New 52 he can. Pre flashpoint no

@SavageDragon said:

I think Manhattan wins. His control of energy and manipulation down to matter itself is an extension of his will. He can see the future, he can see the past as one giant stream of consciousness. He wins because in an all out battle he can see PS future actions and will act in such a way that will speed up whatever it takes to bring about PS's demise sooner, rather than later. A huge part of Manhattans character is about his perception of time, he feels no need to alter what he has already seen. I would argue in an all out battle, his perception of time gives him the edge.

This is utterly hilarious. Your saying that someone who can see all possible time lines has an advantage over someone else who can see all possible time lines because of it. Greatest stretch in history. The bolded part is by far the funniest. Since the Stranger is eternal/everlasting and cannot be destroyed because he is one of god's plans. He is the presence's agent of hope just like Spectre is his agent of vengeance. He will exist as long as there is life in the universe because he is there to be there in everyone's darkest hour to help them choose the right path toward the presence. As long as Manhattan lives so will the Stranger. He can't be destroyed until there is no one left to bring hope to. The Spectre couldn't destroy him only transmute him temporarily. On the handful of occasions that he has been momentarily destroyed he simply is again. The only way Manhattan will kill PS is if he kills all life (including himself) but then he wont be around to kill PS.

What I love most about this thread is that it is a battles of featlessness. Seriously we have on the one hand Dr Manhattan who in print has done absolutely nothing of any consequence ever. Vs Phantom Stranger who literally can't so anything despite his great power because he isn't allowed. Manhattan can't hurt Stranger because he can't be hurt and Stranger can't hurt Manhattan ( at least pre Flashpoint he couldn't and this thread was created then) because it was against the rules

#21 Posted by thanosii (1214 posts) - - Show Bio

stalemate

#22 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2856 posts) - - Show Bio

Phantom Stranger

#23 Edited by SavageDragon (2248 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: So I see nothing in your response to disprove what I said. Your saying he cant be killed because hes eternal. Im aware of this, but this is a thread of two beyond cosmic level characters fighting. They also say in Watchmen that Manhattan cannot be killed. You say your going off whats in the print so am I. Battles like this are speculative since the characters exist on more than just a physical level. So there's no way for you to prove that PS can beat Manhattan or for anyone to prove without a shadow of a doubt that PS can beat Manhattan.The best you give are Theories. I gave mine, and you rudely gave yours. Your theory is saying its a tie. Sorry if that makes you upset but its true.

#24 Posted by beatboks1 (7004 posts) - - Show Bio

@SavageDragon said:

@beatboks1: So I see nothing in your response to disprove what I said.

you must have missed missed it, here it is again for you.

@SavageDragon said:

I think Manhattan wins. ..............He can see the future, he can see the past as one giant stream of consciousness. He wins because in an all out battle he can see PS future actions and will act in such a way that will speed up whatever it takes to bring about PS's demise sooner, rather than later. A huge part of Manhattans character is about his perception of time, he feels no need to alter what he has already seen. I would argue in an all out battle, his perception of time gives him the edge.

This is utterly hilarious. Your saying that someone who can see all possible time lines has an advantage over someone else who can see all possible time lines because of it. Greatest stretch in history. The bolded part is by far the funniest. Since the Stranger is eternal/everlasting and cannot be destroyed because he is one of god's plans. He is the presence's agent of hope just like Spectre is his agent of vengeance. He will exist as long as there is life in the universe because he is there to be there in everyone's darkest hour to help them choose the right path toward the presence. As long as Manhattan lives so will the Stranger. He can't be destroyed until there is no one left to bring hope to. The Spectre couldn't destroy him only transmute him temporarily. On the handful of occasions that he has been momentarily destroyed he simply is again. The only way Manhattan will kill PS is if he kills all life (including himself) but then he wont be around to kill PS.

You clearly state Manahattans perception of time gives him an advantage, I question how when PS has the exact same perception of time in his power base. PS in fact see many future possibilities not just a single one (which I did not state at the time), he has to t be able to be that "hope and offer the guidance to follow the path to take you the "right way". You also clearly said he would bring about Stranger demise (death) sooner rather than later, clearly showing he could be destroyed which he can't. I clearly disproved two things you said.

Your saying he cant be killed because hes eternal. Im aware of thi

Really, it didn't appear that way at all

will speed up whatever it takes to bring about PS's demise sooner, rather than later.

certainly looked to me as though you thought he could be killed

They also say in Watchmen that Manhattan cannot be killed.

No they say he hasn't been and has regenerated when it he was. They they say he possibly can't be killed. Unlike PS it is never categorically stated to be absolutely the case because theirs is a limited universe. In fact towards the end of the series Ozymandias is certain he can in fact destroy Manhattan but surprised he could not succeed.

Battles like this are speculative since the characters exist on more than just a physical level.

But that's just it, Manhattan is just on a purely "physical level. He's just including the energy part o that physicality (e=mc2)

So there's no way for you to prove that PS can beat Manhattan or for anyone to prove without a shadow of a doubt that PS can beat Manhattan.

Actually i did so in my statement. Stranger can only die if there is no one left to bring hope to. He can therefore only die if Manhattan is already dead ( along with every other being in existence). ergo Manhattan cannot win, he has to loose first to end the Stranger.

The best you give are Theories. I gave mine, and you rudely gave yours. Your theory is saying its a tie. Sorry if that makes you upset but its true.

It's not a theory if your stating a shown and established fact. It's not based on limited information or conjecture but on stated and proven facts. Sorry if you thought it was rude, wasn't intended that way. Didn't upset me, In fact it made me laugh. I believe I stated so.

#25 Posted by Equonox (964 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr. Manhattan threads are dumb. He never was put against a sorcerer/mystical character like the PS, and we know PS operates outside of normal reality which means Manhattan likely can't do anything to him. Anyone claiming to know the answer here is fooling themselves, as there simply isn't enough to test Manhattan's power and say conclusively who would win this fight.

#26 Edited by Wyldsong (5176 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@SavageDragon said:

I think Manhattan wins. ..............He can see the future, he can see the past as one giant stream of consciousness. He wins because in an all out battle he can see PS future actions and will act in such a way that will speed up whatever it takes to bring about PS's demise sooner, rather than later. A huge part of Manhattans character is about his perception of time, he feels no need to alter what he has already seen. I would argue in an all out battle, his perception of time gives him the edge.

This is utterly hilarious. Your saying that someone who can see all possible time lines has an advantage over someone else who can see all possible time lines because of it. Greatest stretch in history. The bolded part is by far the funniest. Since the Stranger is eternal/everlasting and cannot be destroyed because he is one of god's plans. He is the presence's agent of hope just like Spectre is his agent of vengeance. He will exist as long as there is life in the universe because he is there to be there in everyone's darkest hour to help them choose the right path toward the presence. As long as Manhattan lives so will the Stranger. He can't be destroyed until there is no one left to bring hope to. The Spectre couldn't destroy him only transmute him temporarily. On the handful of occasions that he has been momentarily destroyed he simply is again. The only way Manhattan will kill PS is if he kills all life (including himself) but then he wont be around to kill PS.

You clearly state Manahattans perception of time gives him an advantage, I question how when PS has the exact same perception of time in his power base. PS in fact see many future possibilities not just a single one (which I did not state at the time), he has to t be able to be that "hope and offer the guidance to follow the path to take you the "right way". You also clearly said he would bring about Stranger demise (death) sooner rather than later, clearly showing he could be destroyed which he can't. I clearly disproved two things you said.

I am going to respond to one small point, and then I am out on this one (even though Manhattan has very little feats to put at this cosmic level most want to put him at and is strictly mid tier based on what he has been shown to be able to do: http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/wyldsong/dr-manhattan-the-truth-behind-the-feats-aka-why-so-blue/87-61001/ -- and there is nothing in there that puts him on a cosmic level, and the one thing he does have which I am about to discuss is useless). Manhattans time ability is useless in this and every thread. I am going to give you what I wrote in another thread. Bear in mind, this is not theory, conjecture, or how I perceive the ability working. This is intel straight from the books -- and I am not accusing anyone of stating he is a reality warper, but this does discuss in some detail his temporal ability:

"You are inferring quite a bit and are running a little off base with a phrase: "In using my power to bend reality to my will, I ensured that my choices -- my will, would begin to form new pocket realities with every whim."

He changed an event, which fractured the quantum reality, and in each new timeline/reality, other choices were made which further fractured those timelines/realities creating further timelines/realities, so forth and so on. As shown in the book, in one reality he went with Silk and in another he still went with Rorschach -- a fractured quantum reality wherein he is the quantum observer -- so no, he didn't just go with Silk, he also went with Rorschach as shown here:

He doesn't just observe and decide what happens. He can travel to points in his own timeline and like a time traveler, can change events, but as is shown in the story, when he does so, he messes things up royally:

You see, according to his words: "I know that I can ride the timeline back and forth between the future and the moment of my creation..."

He is in effect a time traveler along his own timeline and has shown the ability to change things and impose his will on them, which has shown the effect of fracturing quantum reality. It's the whole basis of the story, hence the planet blowing up at the end of issue number 2 and him going to fix things, hence my whole statement -- the main true blue (har har) Manhattan lost control of things -- again, see the end of the world panel. He changed an event in time, which could be seen as bending reality -- he changed an event in the past and due to his unique position in the timestream fractured the quantum reality (an unexpected event since he thought he would change one tiny slip of paper and the timeline would move on from there changed) -- which obviously he had no control over once it started happening hence the end of the world scenario and his need to go and fix things. He is not warping reality, he just changed things in the past which caused the whole basis for the conflict of the story.

That is big leap to make to say he can warp reality, when the story simply shows him changing a name on a piece of paper (well within his molecular manipulation ability) -- he went back to a point in his timeline and messed with the past, which with a guy that can travel his own timestream is a bad thing.

Marty McFly changed the past, which changed his future reality...is he a reality warper as well, or a time traveler who changed the past? Manhattan is quite simply and effectively a time traveler that can change events he has lived at the point he chooses to live it -- with consequences."

"Morals off, if he doesn't mind destroying the planet, then sure, the time travel bit would be a valid tactic.

But then, two divergent realities form wherein the event that he changed and the unchanged event each form their own quantum reality -- we already showed where that happened in Before Watchmen -- one reality he goes with with Silk and in another he doesn't, and if he is using time travel to win, then in one quantum reality, he wins due to the choice and in another he loses. So then you have to argue whether or not it is really a win. Schrodinger's Cat all over again as discussed in the story, because in one reality you have the live cat (Manhattan wins), and in another you have the dead cat (Manhattan loses), and more divergent quantum realities could form from this, especially if he tries to change events in the divergent timelines where bad things happen to him in the fight, so forth and so on, and this discussion would never end=P"

So, let's keep at least one thing straight here: Manhattan's ability to exist in all periods of his life since his transformation is not merely a perception of the future, past or time in general, and it will not help him in a battle. He changes an event he has already lived and experienced, which by the nature of his powers he has already lived and experienced this battle, then he will fracture quantum reality, setting off a chain of events he cannot control, and creating realities wherein he wins due to his ability, and realities where he loses, all equally real and valid.

I am not jumping on your case beatboks1, I just used your post as a jumping on point to clarify this ability of Manhattan's.

#27 Posted by UltraSuperTrooper (676 posts) - - Show Bio

Phantom