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#1 Edited by Carter_esque (6447 posts) - - Show Bio

The Rules:

  1. Morals: Spectre is blood-lusted. Solar is in character.
  2. Prep: None but Spectre does have prior knowledge of Solar and his abilities.
  3. Location: Skrullos (MCU)
  4. No BFR or universe-busting allowed.

Who wins and why?

#2 Posted by Rijehu (465 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre, but it probably won't be easy seeing as to how The Presence tends to male Spectre his punching bag...

#3 Posted by eisjfiejss (513 posts) - - Show Bio

Good fight. I say Spectre, but regardless of the winner it should be close.

#4 Posted by Iragexcudder (4244 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre should win

#5 Edited by JwwProd (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with Dr Solar.

#6 Posted by dorukesin (5125 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre in picosecond

#7 Posted by JeanRalphio (1842 posts) - - Show Bio

@rijehu said:

Spectre, but it probably won't be easy seeing as to how The Presence tends to male Spectre his punching bag...

That means nothing to this battle.

Spectre wins.

#8 Posted by GrandSymbiote94 (11475 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre feats?

#9 Posted by King Saturn (223722 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder if Solar could manipulate Spectre's Divine Magic ? I mean it is a form of Energy that Spectre would use to attack Solar...

#10 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: I dont think we have ever seen valiant version of Solar manipulate magic, we have however seen the next version of Solar, by Dark Horse, unable to manipulate magic. I think it does make sense of him being unable to manipulate magic, given Solar was merged with the very fabric of the universe, magic being alien to him makes a lot of sense.

#11 Posted by King Saturn (223722 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn: I dont think we have ever seen valiant version of Solar manipulate magic, we have however seen the next version of Solar, by Dark Horse, unable to manipulate magic. I think it does make sense of him being unable to manipulate magic, given Solar was merged with the very fabric of the universe, magic being alien to him makes a lot of sense.

But if Magic is apart of the Universe and Solar merged with the Universe... how should it be alien to him ?

#12 Posted by dorukesin (5125 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre feats?

my favorite SA Spectre feat is ;

he stopped Superman because he's going to break infinite barriers with his infinite speed

#13 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio


But if Magic is apart of the Universe and Solar merged with the Universe... how should it be alien to him ?

Well it sort of its.. as weird as it may sound. He has always been more of an energy manipulator, than anything else. Any energy unfamiliar to him he struggles to manipulate, for example the spider alien suit, in his earlier encounter.

His transformation was more on a scientific level anyways, not being amp in manipulate magic sort of make sense.

I know its a weird argument to make, better case would be, he has never manipulated magic and hence there is nothing saying he can, i was just trying to go a bit further, sighting an instance from a later issue, albiet from a different version.

#14 Edited by PowerWoman (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Dr.solar can destroy multiverse and control magic,not Dark Horse

#15 Posted by King Saturn (223722 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

But if Magic is apart of the Universe and Solar merged with the Universe... how should it be alien to him ?

Well it sort of its.. as weird as it may sound. He has always been more of an energy manipulator, than anything else. Any energy unfamiliar to him he struggles to manipulate, for example the spider alien suit, in his earlier encounter.

His transformation was more on a scientific level anyways, not being amp in manipulate magic sort of make sense.

I know its a weird argument to make, better case would be, he has never manipulated magic and hence there is nothing saying he can, i was just trying to go a bit further, sighting an instance from a later issue, albiet from a different version.

Well, I guess limitations have to come into play somewhere for the character.

#16 Edited by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Dr.solar can destroy multiverse and control magic,not Dark Horse

The valiant version? He hasnt so much destroyed a universe, has struggled against being a lot below universal so i dont think thats even remotely true.

The change came only when Acclaim took over, thats a different case.

Although raw power has very little to do with his ability to control magic i would think, no?

And Dark Horse isnt a character, Dark Horse is a company that publishes the comics, same as Valiant. Dr. Solar gets way over-estimated at times.

#17 Posted by PowerWoman (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman said:

@killemall: Dr.solar can destroy multiverse and control magic,not Dark Horse

The valiant version? He hasnt so much destroyed a universe, has struggled against being a lot below universal so i dont think thats even remotely true.

The change came only when Acclaim took over, thats a different case.

Although raw power has very little to do with his ability to control magic i would think, no?

And Dark Horse isnt a character, Dark Horse is a company that publishes the comics, same as Valiant. Dr. Solar gets way over-estimated at times.

I dont know which version,but one of version,Dr.solar can stop all the time itself and destroy all universes,but not sure from which version

#18 Posted by cosmicallyaware1 (4191 posts) - - Show Bio

Solar ftw.

#19 Posted by New_World_Order (12318 posts) - - Show Bio

Spectre

#20 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: the stuff about Dr Solar being weak against magic in the Valiant version is made-up.I'm sorry, but there i essentially no proof that Solar has any quams with magic

Right here, we see Solar easily stomp the Christian-type magic of Sin Buster

so yeah, nothing about Spectre's powers would suggest that their somehow inherently

also, SOlar can make people not be real

that combined with his time travel

gives SOlar plenty of cheap, irrational paths to victory

#21 Posted by Rijehu (465 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanralphio: Lol True. Hasn't he held the universe within himself or separated it or something like that?

#22 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4271 posts) - - Show Bio

spectre

#23 Posted by AngryHulks (2994 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall said:

@king_saturn: I dont think we have ever seen valiant version of Solar manipulate magic, we have however seen the next version of Solar, by Dark Horse, unable to manipulate magic. I think it does make sense of him being unable to manipulate magic, given Solar was merged with the very fabric of the universe, magic being alien to him makes a lot of sense.

But if Magic is apart of the Universe and Solar merged with the Universe... how should it be alien to him ?

What magic is depends on the source. Writers often see the source of mystical energy to be from different dimension where laws of physics is totally different than to our universe.

And Spectre power is quasi-magic, it's more like some sort of divine force.

#24 Edited by JwwProd (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel that Solar is being underestimated here.

#25 Posted by AngryHulks (2994 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod said:

I feel that Solar is being underestimated here.

He's being overestimated most of the time, Killemall catches up on all Solar comics and he pretty much clarified many things here. Many of his feats are being misinterpreted, maybe it's because several guys simply copy and paste the scans from KMC respect thread.

#26 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@king_saturn said:

@killemall said:

@king_saturn: I dont think we have ever seen valiant version of Solar manipulate magic, we have however seen the next version of Solar, by Dark Horse, unable to manipulate magic. I think it does make sense of him being unable to manipulate magic, given Solar was merged with the very fabric of the universe, magic being alien to him makes a lot of sense.

But if Magic is apart of the Universe and Solar merged with the Universe... how should it be alien to him ?

What magic is depends on the source. Writers often see the source of mystical energy to be from different dimension where laws of physics is totally different than to our universe.

And Spectre power is quasi-magic, it's more like some sort of divine force.

Divine Force is nothing against Solar, he easily destroyed Sin Busters Holy Sword

#27 Posted by JwwProd (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@angryhulks said:

@jwwprod said:

I feel that Solar is being underestimated here.

He's being overestimated most of the time, Killemall catches up on all Solar comics and he pretty much clarified many things here. Many of his feats are being misinterpreted, maybe it's because several guys simply copy and paste the scans from KMC respect thread.

Ok those things are kind of true.

#28 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

I dont know which version,but one of version,Dr.solar can stop all the time itself and destroy all universes,but not sure from which version

No version of Solar has ever done that, and Valiant version of Solar has limitations (Just to be clear i have no intention to reply to a troll like Betatest1) , he was unable to manipulate Blackbody's shield, which was made up of cosmic and mystical energy.

@jwwprod said:

I feel that Solar is being underestimated here.

He's being overestimated most of the time, Killemall catches up on all Solar comics and he pretty much clarified many things here. Many of his feats are being misinterpreted, maybe it's because several guys simply copy and paste the scans from KMC respect thread.

Absolutely. Its nice and easy to see he is a powerhouse based on what has been said on the respect thread of KMC but most the information about Solar is quite untrue. He has versatility and is signficantly more powerful than some like Thor or Silver Surfer. But thats about it.

#29 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@jwwprod said:

Ok those things are kind of true.

Its sad but it really is, even in this thread we have guys talking stuffs like he can unmake people, which might be true, but the instance is so out of context its not even funny.

The only evidence you will every find showing Solar operates anything beyond universal comes in Solar Man of Atom # 7 where one of his notes says, I directly affected "universes".

Essentially after Acclaim bought Valiant, then he was made godlike, but then they did something nice, once you make a character actual godlike, its very hard to sustain a solo issue of him going. How many stories can you write about a godlike beings? So they made him like a mad god, who appears only once in a while.

#30 Edited by PowerWoman (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=463356&pagenumber=5

This thread

#31 Edited by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=463356&pagenumber=5

This thread

Point me to the instance where it says Solar destroyed a universe or a multiverse and i can show you how that assertion is wrong, just too lazy to sit back and read the whole respect thread, knowing that Galan, the person who created the respect thread has made mistakes, something he acknowledge when me and him debated on KMC.

#32 Posted by PowerWoman (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman said:

@killemall: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=463356&pagenumber=5

This thread

Point me to the instance where it says Solar destroyed a universe or a multiverse and i can show you how that assertion is wrong, just too lazy to sit back and read the whole respect thread, knowing that Galan, the person who created the respect thread has made mistakes, something he acknowledge when me and him debated on KMC.

Ok,i dont read Dr.solar comic book,I dont know

#33 Posted by laflux (13692 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman said:

@killemall: http://www.killermovies.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=463356&pagenumber=5

This thread

Point me to the instance where it says Solar destroyed a universe or a multiverse and i can show you how that assertion is wrong, just too lazy to sit back and read the whole respect thread, knowing that Galan, the person who created the respect thread has made mistakes, something he acknowledge when me and him debated on KMC.

You debated on KMC o_o?

#34 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

You debated on KMC o_o?

For a short while, before i forgot my password :p

#35 Edited by JwwProd (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: I personally I'm still going with Solar on this one though this could be an interesting fight :)

#36 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok,i dont read Dr.solar comic book,I dont know

No no, i understand that you havent read a Solar comics, that wasnt the point.

You said you thought Solar could bust the multiverse, so i am asking was there any feat shown to you that would suggest so? Because i know Solar feats gets mis-represented often so i thought i might be able to help you.

@jwwprod said:

@killemall: I personally I'm still going with Solar on this one though this could be an interesting fight :)

Fair enough i cant change your mind, but honestly if you go by feats, Solar has very little on Spectre level.

I am just waiting for someone to actually post a scan or make a case so we could debate either way.

#37 Posted by PowerWoman (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Well,I only to know about dr.solar is from Kmc feats thread..

I think he can do it..but..

#38 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Well,I only to know about dr.solar is from Kmc feats thread..

I think he can do it..but..

He has never even done anything close to it.

I saw Galan mention, in the respect thread that he destroyed his universe, which is also untrue.

Honestly you will have problem showing me a feat Solar has performed thats on universal level, let alone beyond that. You are welcome to look throughout KMC and point me to feats that are seemingly above universal and we can discuss.

#39 Edited by PowerWoman (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman said:

@killemall: Well,I only to know about dr.solar is from Kmc feats thread..

I think he can do it..but..

He has never even done anything close to it.

I saw Galan mention, in the respect thread that he destroyed his universe, which is also untrue.

Honestly you will have problem showing me a feat Solar has performed thats on universal level, let alone beyond that. You are welcome to look throughout KMC and point me to feats that are seemingly above universal and we can discuss.

Ok,thanks,another question,it's UN can destroy multiverse?it's destroy abraxas though

#40 Posted by JwwProd (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: Cool :) though I do agree that I want to see more people post some scans as well.

P.S. I can't post scans because there is a bug that's not letting me upload new images and I do hope @sithlantern93 joins soon :)

#41 Posted by JwwProd (8457 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok,thanks,another question,it's UN can destroy multiverse?it's destroy abraxas though

Yes the UN can destroy the multiverse though I don't think it destroys the multiverse in one shot.

#42 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio


Ok,thanks,another question,it's UN can destroy multiverse?it's destroy abraxas though

There is inconsistency on what happened, comics seem to say Reed Richard actually re-created the whole multiverse to get rid of Abraxas and undo all the damange he had done, which was destroying couple of entire universes as well as various alternate version of Galactus.

3 different bio , publishes after this point, point to UN being universal and the feat in question being universal, so its up to you to decide what you want to believe.

@jwwprod said:

@killemall: Cool :) though I do agree that I want to see more people post some scans as well.

P.S. I can't post scans because there is a bug that's not letting me upload new images and I do hope @sithlantern93 joins soon :)

Sure no worries, but if you cant post scans you can just explain the stuffs you are trying to post. I know i have read every Solar issue there is, pretty sure i would know what instance you are talking about.

#43 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: really don't appreciate you calling me a troll

I contribute a lot to these discussions

#44 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4271 posts) - - Show Bio

@betatesthighlander1: your contribution is not needed, and no one will complain when you stop contributing, if fact, they will do the complete opposite

#45 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: really don't appreciate you calling me a troll

I contribute a lot to these discussions

Well truth hurts.. so cry somewhere.

Or better yet just dont reply to me.. :)

@betatesthighlander1: your contribution is not needed, and no one will complain when you stop contributing, if fact, they will do the complete opposite

Yeah he is still posting scans from Acclaim as opposed to Valiant to try and fool you in the other thread just as well, the set of scans are from Solar: Revelation and Solar: Hell on Earth, both of which are from Acclaim universe and not Valiant.

Then he himself taking Solar statements as genuine and Lucifer as something else... it doesnt take a lot to know he has never really read anything on Solar and is just trolling around. Such is life.

#46 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman said:

I dont know which version,but one of version,Dr.solar can stop all the time itself and destroy all universes,but not sure from which version

No version of Solar has ever done that, and Valiant version of Solar has limitations (Just to be clear i have no intention to reply to a troll like Betatest1) , he was unable to manipulate Blackbody's shield, which was made up of cosmic and mystical energy.

OK, so, there is not actually a character in Valiant comics named Blackbody

Blackbody is a Silver Surfer villain from the 80's

that character is Blackstar and his powers aren't actually magical in nature

also, SOlar beat the guy pretty handily once he figured out how

also, even the Dark Horse version can fight magical beings

but you still havent posted even a single iota of evidence against SOlar manipulating Magic against SIn Buster, your just ignoring that

and don't even get me started on Master Darque and Dr Eclipse

#48 Posted by PowerWoman (3325 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerwoman said:

Ok,thanks,another question,it's UN can destroy multiverse?it's destroy abraxas though

There is inconsistency on what happened, comics seem to say Reed Richard actually re-created the whole multiverse to get rid of Abraxas and undo all the damange he had done, which was destroying couple of entire universes as well as various alternate version of Galactus.

3 different bio , publishes after this point, point to UN being universal and the feat in question being universal, so its up to you to decide what you want to believe.

@jwwprod said:

@killemall: Cool :) though I do agree that I want to see more people post some scans as well.

P.S. I can't post scans because there is a bug that's not letting me upload new images and I do hope @sithlantern93 joins soon :)

Sure no worries, but if you cant post scans you can just explain the stuffs you are trying to post. I know i have read every Solar issue there is, pretty sure i would know what instance you are talking about.

Ok,very thanks

#49 Posted by Baron_von_Santa (4271 posts) - - Show Bio

@killemall: first i met him, i thought he was a respected debater. how foolish i was, i do not even have a reason to respect him, but i did. then he started trolling.

#50 Posted by Killemall (18169 posts) - - Show Bio

@baron_von_santa: It takes a while to realize who is a reasonable debater and who isnt.