DR. manhattan vs Rune thor

To the death in a forgotten galaxy so no innocent ppl all out to the death

RKT, beyond easily

Manhanttan cant win this

" @The Mjolnir Wielder: I am guessing your just saying that because your a Thor fan boy. Dr Manhattan would give Thor a good beating but in the end i also Thor would win "

" @The Mjolnir Wielder: I am guessing your just saying that because your a Thor fan boy. Dr Manhattan would give Thor a good beating but in the end i also Thor would win "

Rune Thor wins with ease.

thor via dr's lack of feats

" Rune Thor wins with ease. "

" Rune Thor wins with ease. "

Who can prove that Dr. M can't just deatomize Rune King Thor?  Remember, in order to decompose particle without energy reactions requires an entity to control the forces involved holding the nucleus and the electrons together.  Any electrons removed beyond the valence orbital would release tremedous amount of energy as demostrated by nuclear fission, therefore it's unlikely that Dr. M controls electron by using force to rearrange matter to desired result.  He would have to control the very force that governs those atoms in order to rearrange matters in a fashion he showed in the graphic novel which would be a major advantage here (The strong nuclear force holds the nucleas of an atom and the electrons orbiting the atom.  Trying to take an electron from a stable atom requires alot of energy and would agitate that atom to react violently).    But, we know RKT still needs a body to exist which is a major disadvantage in this fight. 
      

It's rediculous to state that one character would win because of the other character's lack of feat, that's like stating theres no lifeform in other planet because there are no evidences.  You cannot prove nor can I disprove your position.  However, what we know are: 
1.  Dr. M does not need a body to exist.

2.  He has never been tested, therefore we don't know what his actual limits are. 
3.  Has stated that he had walk the surface of the sun without harm, has also stated that he created life. 
4.  He can teleport himself and others without effort in their own home (this implies that he telepathy since how did he know to send them to the right address?). 
5.  Can see the past and the future of himself.  
 7.  Make multiple copies of himself that has the same power. 
8.  Change his body density to any desired amount. 
9.  Reverse entropy.  
10.  Went emo and built a structure on mars effortlessly.

11.  Object he built was flying while he reasoned with Silk Spetra regarding the fate of humanity (He's even good at multitasking, does this dude have any limit!!!)

We can compare him to Silver Surfer, yet Silver Surfer cannot survive an attack which can damage his body greatly. SS needs a body to survive, he's still subjected to physical harm compared to Dr. M physical invulrability.  Dr. Manhattan can exist as an entity without a body which was demonstrated when he was deatomized at the end of watchmen.  Reforming was never a problem after he rebuilt himself for the first time.  Silver Surfer cannot teleport seemingly nor have enough control of his body to be able to change size.  In fact, now that I think about it, SS powers are not as varied as Dr. M or as flexible.  He may show more feat, which was a given considering SS is in more comics.  However,  his power scale seem a bit limited now that I think about it.   
 
Attempting to decide a winner by stating the other character has no feat is ridiculous.  Dr. M was implied to be godly in all aspect and has demostrated no weakness.  Tachchion was used as a plot device, but all it accomplished was block his sense of the future.  Dr. M has never had the need to display his power at its highest level because he never had to.  The things he did, which are written in my list, he did without effort. 
 

Regular Thor could win, in theory.

 Dr. M

" @forze:  Feats IMO are very important, Dr.M can state whatever he wants, but without proof we can not really decide if his so called Statements are true. EX:They stated that Sentry had the power of 10 billion exploding suns but has not prove it. "

"

Who can prove that Dr. M can't just deatomize Rune King Thor?  Remember, in order to decompose particle without energy reactions requires an entity to control the forces involved holding the nucleus and the electrons together.  Any electrons removed beyond the valence orbital would release tremedous amount of energy as demostrated by nuclear fission, therefore it's unlikely that Dr. M controls electron by using force to rearrange matter to desired result.  He would have to control the very force that governs those atoms in order to rearrange matters in a fashion he showed in the graphic novel which would be a major advantage here (The strong nuclear force holds the nucleas of an atom and the electrons orbiting the atom.  Trying to take an electron from a stable atom requires alot of energy and would agitate that atom to react violently).    But, we know RKT still needs a body to exist which is a major disadvantage in this fight. 
      

It's rediculous to state that one character would win because of the other character's lack of feat, that's like stating theres no lifeform in other planet because there are no evidences.  You cannot prove nor can I disprove your position.  However, what we know are: 
1.  Dr. M does not need a body to exist.

2.  He has never been tested, therefore we don't know what his actual limits are. 
3.  Has stated that he had walk the surface of the sun without harm, has also stated that he created life. 
4.  He can teleport himself and others without effort in their own home (this implies that he telepathy since how did he know to send them to the right address?). 
5.  Can see the past and the future of himself.  
 7.  Make multiple copies of himself that has the same power. 
8.  Change his body density to any desired amount. 
9.  Reverse entropy.  
10.  Went emo and built a structure on mars effortlessly.

11.  Object he built was flying while he reasoned with Silk Spetra regarding the fate of humanity (He's even good at multitasking, does this dude have any limit!!!)

"

 

For one thing the guy's best feats revolves around making people go splat and crushing a tank with TK. Neither of which even close to the durability of Thor, let along this absolutely insanely powerful incarnation of him. 
 
1. Great for Manhattan because Thor is going to be willing him out of existence. 
2. Doesn't help him at all in battlethreads when his best feats make him into a subpar Silver Surfer who was powerless against cancer and speedblitzed by Ozy.  
3. Silver Surfer can fly through stars and not even feel it, RKT being much more powerful could manage. I can create life with test tubes, much like any scientist. Manhattan never showed the ability to do anything complex with his matter manipulation, it certainly again doesn't help that cancer will killing people he cared about and didn't do squat to prevent it. 
4. It does imply he has some sort of telepathy, anywhere near most of the guys in Marvel's ball park not so much. He pretty much has no feats with it. 
5. He experiences the past present and future at the same time without being able to seemingly change it, the ability itself doesn't seem to at all help him since he admittedly is just as much of a slave to time as the rest of us going through the motions. 
6. You skipped 6  
7. He can make a million copies of himself for all I care, they will all be subpar matter energy manipulators in comparison without the feats to win this. 
8. Useless ability is useless? 
9. ----^ 
10. Big golden clock is a feat that makes him on par with RKT? Wow. 
11. You know that isn't at all impressive when we look at about half a dozen other people's feats that aren't even close to Rune Thor's power levels. 
  

 "We can compare him to Silver Surfer, yet Silver Surfer cannot survive an attack which can damage his body greatly. SS needs a body to survive, he's still subjected to physical harm compared to Dr. M physical invulrability.  Dr. Manhattan can exist as an entity without a body which was demonstrated when he was deatomized at the end of watchmen.  Reforming was never a problem after he rebuilt himself for the first time.  Silver Surfer cannot teleport seemingly nor have enough control of his body to be able to change size.  In fact, now that I think about it, SS powers are not as varied as Dr. M or as flexible.  He may show more feat, which was a given considering SS is in more comics.  However,  his power scale seem a bit limited now that I think about it. "

Yeah, thats so true brother. 

     
But atleast Manhattan has so many more powers than Norrin Radd!  
Oh wait, weve seen Norrin use telepathy, change his size (Microverse anyone?) is a much better matter / energy manipulator, wrap people up in a bubble and send them to whatever destination they with, time travel, use cosmic awareness, bring back people near death, rebuild cities, make complex machines out of nothing with his abilities, give people powers, change the cloths right on your back instantly, turn himself into pink fleshy skin to get laid, and just about anything Manhattan has done Norrin has done on a greater scale on multiple occasions.  
 
What does Manhattan have him beat on? Making more himself, being able to experience past present and future without being able to change it (Useless) and teleporting masses of people to certain destinations.
 
Meanwhile Norrin turns himself into a walking nuke scaring the thing away, sucks the very power out of the Hulk turning him into Banner, turning people to stone, trapping them in energy and yatta yatta. Manhattan Microwaves people making them going splat and can't even handle cancer with his matter manipulation while Norrin is brining back people from death's door.

Speed wise? Manhattan couldn't even outrun Ozy's machine, Norrin runs around an entire planet's globe looking for one guy before someone can finish their sentence. Even able to speed up fast enough to make time his play thing.

Destructive wise, as a by product of Norrin's fights planets go boom. He opens singularities and sits in them as he fights people. 

I know Manhattan crushing a tank with TK and killing normal people with no durability(Not even vaporising them) is very impressive to a bunch of normal people, not someone that busts planets and phases people out of existence with ease.

"Attempting to decide a winner by stating the other character has no feat is ridiculous.  Dr. M was implied to be godly in all aspect and has demostrated no weakness.  Tachchion was used as a plot device, but all it accomplished was block his sense of the future.  Dr. M has never had the need to display his power at its highest level because he never had to.  The things he did, which are written in my list, he did without effort. " 

  
Okay lets decide who wins by how powerful we think the character is with no reasoning behind it? OMG Manhattan came off as sooooo GODLY! Sure the most damage done in the film / comic wasn't done by him but by Ozymandias' Machine.  
Which was just busting cities. Thats really impressive and godly! 

Oh wait. This is how a fight would go by against Manhattan and Norrin.
     

Imply all everyone wants, the guy doesn't have the feats to beat Norrin much less RKT.  
Silver Surfer-lite loses horribly.

   @forze said:

"There's a different between Sentry and Dr. M.  Sentry has been beaten several times before, his psyche might be to blame.  Howerver, he shows considerable power as the void which people claim to be rediculous.  I would not try to say that feats are not important, but certainly you would keep an open mind to a possible alternative using reasons.  In fact, if the only thing that mattered was past feats, having a theorical battle would be pointless.  If a person can't imagine several ways a fight might occur using logical reason, then it is best for that person to not participate a debate over characters that are involve in theorical battles.  The reason being that person would be bias to his or her point of view and therefore would offer no new concept to a debate.    Simply put, a person who is not open minded would be hard to convince because he or she will maintain his/her bias because such bias would be imbeded in his/her subconcious.  This is because he/she has little to no control of that function of the brain.       I'am not hard to convince nor will I object to something if I see a concise argument that will convince me that one character has a clear advantage over the other.  I will admit that I'am bias over some characters, but I will always try to see through the other parties point of view.  The problem lies when the courtesy does not extend both ways.    "

The reason Manhattan was unbeatable in his universe, is because he likely the most powerful person there. But put someone like Doctor Doom or Reed they would come up with a method of killing him in a week if not less, Ozy doesn't hold a candle to them. 
 
I'm not fan of people playing the guessing game with Manhattan believing he is that much more crazy powerful with nothing to support it because he had a breeze in Watchman.  
The guy was panicking over not having the confidence to handle the Soviets and doesn't even seem to have the control over matter to simply get rid of someone's cancer. We can brag about him planning on creating life, but to say he can create a complete copy of humanity with a simple gesture when the guys best feats when controling organic matter revolves around splattering them all over the walls isn't exactly motivating.    

" @forze:  I did not state feats are the only reliable source, i simply stated that Feats are important too, 
 
I only  used sentry as an example that Statements of certain character can not be accurate unless he/she proves/Shows it."

@  lagoon_boy

 
I think you mean "censore" and what exacly is in my post that is  obscene, indecent or whater ?

 
@  lagoon_boy

   
I never even though that word could be offensive . But ok i will try to use it less often :P 
 
Also that was not exacly a correcton is just that i was not sure what you whanted to say. I am preaty bad at spelling myself.

@Hellos:

You show one feat where SS gets deatomitize and not by choice.  Dr. M has the ability to reconstruct his own atoms by his own willpower and is not least discomforted by the prospect.  I will give you a benefit of a doubt on the astral plane, but I don't see how you can try to attack someone whos simultaniously in all timeline at once in their mind.   
 
So, is it a stretch to be able to create life when you can already make clone of yourself with the same godlike abilities?   
 
He cannot change his future because if he attempts to change it, the previous future would no longer exist therefore he would not feel like he has done anything.  If you see every timeline of yourself, your future would be weighted in the presence and everything you do would constantly change your future, so you would feel like you had not change anything because that future would be change by what you did in the presense and no longer exist.

It's silly say that he has trouble with Russia when it's within his ability to just teleport to their headquarter and deatomized everyone there, he just did not care at that point.  He never stated that he would have trouble with the soviat union, it was stated that he could stop majority of the nuclear missile if they were all launch at once, but would he.  Notice, when the comedian shot a women he did not stop the bullet.  This was the time the graphic novel started exploring his inablity to no longer care about human life and the conflict that's going around him.   
 
He was loosing touch with his humanity and cared less and less about humans.  He was still trying to maintain his humanity , he played along by giving the government new technologies, but that was only for a short while.  At the point when people attack him using the cancer accusation set up by Ozy, his view between an alive human and a dead human was not so different and this was supported when he was interviewed which he describes that a dead person has the same characteristic as an alive person.  So curing someone is not high on his priority list...he no longer empathazed with anyone at that point and pretty much started questioning why he was still staying in earth because he's pretty much not human and can no longer relate.  Remember he experiences time line at a non linear fashion, so maintaining a hold on his humanity was hard.  It would be like a person trying to care and relate to a colony of ants and trying to treat one ant's leg because it's broken... would anyone do it unless they are interested in ants in the first place?         
  
I don't know, we can agree to disagree.  But you did not really change my opinion because I already knew what SS is capable of, he's actually one of my favorite character.  I admit that's the first time I seen his fight with Uni-Lord which was pretty awesome.  But, remember Dr. Manhattan was an entity without a body before he was able to reconstruct himself and can maintain that form indefinately.  I just don't see how SS can beat Dr. Manhattan. 
   
And I will keep implying, you however need to breath. 

" @Xan:  Well we can pretty much agree if Dr. M states anything in his future it is true since he can see it.  So when he states that he starts creating life in another galaxy, it's probably true since he exist in the past and the future simultaniously. "

" @Hellos:

You show one feat where SS gets deatomitize and not by choice.  Dr. M has the ability to reconstruct his own atoms by his own willpower and is not least discomforted by the prospect.  I will give you a benefit of a doubt on the astral plane, but I don't see how you can try to attack someone whos simultaniously in all timeline at once in their mind." 

"So, is it a stretch to be able to create life when you can already make clone of yourself with the same godlike abilities? " 

"He cannot change his future because if he attempts to change it, the previous future would no longer exist therefore he would not feel like he has done anything.  If you see every timeline of yourself, your future would be weighted in the presence and everything you do would constantly change your future, so you would feel like you had not change anything because that future would be change by what you did in the presense and no longer exist." 

 
And it remains a completely useless ability. It's just there to make the character seem that much more OMG, when in fact he is still another slave to it just like the rest of us.
 

"It's silly say that he has trouble with Russia when it's within his ability to just teleport to their headquarter and deatomized everyone there, he just did not care at that point." 

 
He cared, but again he was unsure he could defend against an attack, namely why he went through the trouble to create a machine to replicate his power believing he could use it to elimate war and bring to the world. If he didn't care he wouldn't have done it. 
 

" He never stated that he would have trouble with the soviat union, it was stated that he could stop majority of the nuclear missile if they were all launch at once, but would he.  Notice, when the comedian shot a women he did not stop the bullet.  This was the time the graphic novel started exploring his inablity to no longer care about human life and the conflict that's going around him." 

Ozy wasn't confident in his ability to do it and it kinda defeats the point of him putting his efforts into building a machine that he viewed would bring peace to the world. The act his ability to see the future was clouded added to that uncertainty.
Yeah I noticed him not stopping the bullet, which is said because of his lack of caring, but then again I also notice a machine atomizing Manhattan without much effort, which makes his reaction time really not look that impressive in comparison to a few characters that come to mind.  
 

Speaking of bullets, Norrin did a tad better for a complete stranger. Essentially turning those bullets into energy snack.

Hell it took him a while to notice Silk Spectre sufficating right next to him.

"He was loosing touch with his humanity and cared less and less about humans.  He was still trying to maintain his humanity , he played along by giving the government new technologies, but that was only for a short while.  At the point when people attack him using the cancer accusation set up by Ozy, his view between an alive human and a dead human was not so different and this was supported when he was interviewed which he describes that a dead person has the same characteristic as an alive person.    

 
I can agree with that, though he did still feel emotion for a few people, then called it quits when faced with the accusation that he was hurting people he loved once upon a time, Panicking packing his bags for Mars. 
 

"So curing someone is not high on his priority list...he no longer empathazed with anyone at that point and pretty much started questioning why he was still staying in earth because he's pretty much not human and can no longer relate.  Remember he experiences time line at a non linear fashion, so maintaining a hold on his humanity was hard.  It would be like a person trying to care and relate to a colony of ants and trying to treat one ant's leg because it's broken... would anyone do it unless they are interested in ants in the first place?" 

 
If it was such an easy task he would have done it, especially for his Ex Wife, he still cared, he felt sympathy for her. It's clear if it was such an easy fix for him he would have done it. So I'm not buying the whole, he didn't about humanity so he was going to let his best friend and his Ex die to cancer. The best control of organic matter atleast we saw out of Watchmen was him splattering people all over the walls, the ground and such. He never showed the ability to do any better.  
 
Everything that happened implied the guy wasn't capable of curing cancer based on what happened.
  

"I don't know, we can agree to disagree.  But you did not really change my opinion because I already knew what SS is capable of, he's actually one of my favorite character.  I admit that's the first time I seen his fight with Uni-Lord which was pretty awesome.  But, remember Dr. Manhattan was an entity without a body before he was able to reconstruct himself and can maintain that form indefinately.  I just don't see how SS can beat Dr. Manhattan. "

 
 
Destroying him on the astral plane is the method of choice here on the boards. I'm personally a fan of possibly returning him to flesh and blood and blasting a hole through his chest, absorbing him as an energy snack or spreading Manhattans molecules across the universe. Hell he could replicate the same stuff that atomized Manhattan from Ozy's machine and speed blitz Manhattan over and over with it. Manhattan doesn't hold  candle to Norrin in speed, much less a few characters.
   

"And I will keep implying, you however need to breath. "

 
You can, but in honesty is going to be hard to win over the masses with the argument "I think he can do more than he showed." Especially with characters with over 50 years of more feats behind them. 
 

" @Morpheus_: Guess I could add it in an edit. :P "

" @Hellos said:

" @Morpheus_: Guess I could add it in an edit. :P "

Cool, I'm deleting my post, and after you answer, this one as well. Just out of curiosity, how did this thread came down to Surfer vs Manhattan, yet again? "

 "We can compare him to Silver Surfer, yet Silver Surfer cannot survive an attack which can damage his body greatly. SS needs a body to survive, he's still subjected to physical harm compared to Dr. M physical invulrability.  Dr. Manhattan can exist as an entity without a body which was demonstrated when he was deatomized at the end of watchmen.  Reforming was never a problem after he rebuilt himself for the first time.  Silver Surfer cannot teleport seemingly nor have enough control of his body to be able to change size.  In fact, now that I think about it, SS powers are not as varied as Dr. M or as flexible.  He may show more feat, which was a given considering SS is in more comics.  However,  his power scale seem a bit limited now that I think about it. " 

 
I was shooting to kill two birds with one stone. Dispell the doubt for Norrin, so the guy(RKT) that should be significantly more powerful should would walk all over Manhattan. 
Though if it popped up before this I don't know, I'd have to reskim the posts to see if he was mentioned before that in a comparison in this thread.

"
@Morpheus_ said:

" @Hellos said:

" @Morpheus_: Guess I could add it in an edit. :P "

Cool, I'm deleting my post, and after you answer, this one as well. Just out of curiosity, how did this thread came down to Surfer vs Manhattan, yet again? "

For me? When I read this.

 

 "We can compare him to Silver Surfer, yet Silver Surfer cannot survive an attack which can damage his body greatly. SS needs a body to survive, he's still subjected to physical harm compared to Dr. M physical invulrability.  Dr. Manhattan can exist as an entity without a body which was demonstrated when he was deatomized at the end of watchmen.  Reforming was never a problem after he rebuilt himself for the first time.  Silver Surfer cannot teleport seemingly nor have enough control of his body to be able to change size.  In fact, now that I think about it, SS powers are not as varied as Dr. M or as flexible.  He may show more feat, which was a given considering SS is in more comics.  However,  his power scale seem a bit limited now that I think about it. " 

 
I was shooting to kill two birds with one stone. Dispell the doubt for Norrin, so the guy(RKT) that should be significantly more powerful should would walk all over Manhattan. 
Though if it popped up before this I don't know, I'd have to reskim the posts to see if he was mentioned before that in a comparison in this thread.

"

"@Hellos: The whole point of his character was a man turning into god and judging if humanity was worth saving." 

 
With the exception a god of ants, remains as such. Hes powerful to normal guys and what not but the power that he shows isn't something will give someone like RKT trouble. More powerful than Odin who already would blink Manhattan out of existence.
 

" Every showing where he refuse to intervene shows he no longer have any  interest in human affairs."

 
Your assuming he chooses to not intervene, choosing not to cure people he still cares about. It's all assumption my friend, he still didn't show the power to do what your thinking he can. 
 

"That was the whole point.  Curing cancers, saving life, curing his wife, hell the dude abandon his ex for another without remorse.  Hardly the humanitarian there. " 

 
I would agree Manhattan is sleazy guy that only into younger chicks. But I doubt Manhattan's inability to cure cancer was of his own choosing. Maybe if he actually atomized someone with a simple gesture instead of making them explode everywhere would be more convincing, till then his matter manipulation of organics capped off at teleportation, not re arranging people's insides.
 

"Really?  Having the ability to reconstruct your body and not being able to cure cancer?  Come on man.  He splattered people because it serve its purpose, he's not trying to be artistic about it.   I can see that we are seeing different things from the graphic novel.   WInning masses was never my intention.  I could care less.  " 

 
I don't really care what he can do for himself, that doesn't mean the man can cure cancer or has anymore control of things outside remaking his body. He put himself backtogether and teleported people(we don't even know how the process of this was done). But even assuming he had absolute control of people atomicly, wheres the feats to say he can take someone more powerful than Odin, who on his own is pretty damn impressive, busting galaxies back in the day in fights or bringing back an entire to life? This is honestly a slaughter in RKT's favor, who will pretty much blink Manhattan out of existence, he ended ragnorak and the guy conquered the Earth for over 200 years, then deciding to undo it and go back in time(This alone would make Manhattan's head spin. :P)
 
I just see where youy going with this argument, theres no evidence to support your case other than "I think" guessing game that happens often for Manhattan when the guy's best feats are outclassed easily by dozens of much weaker characters then man with the power of runes that, willed Mangog into nothingness, easily recreate the moon, ended Ragnarok cycle, getting rid of those who sit above in shadow and attained pretty mind numbing amount of power to pull it off(Near limitless cosmic and mystical energies for anything). 
  
The guy is literally going to will Manhattan out of existence and theres nothing Manhattan can do about it. He simply does not have the high end feats to deal with a guy that was essentially warping reality. Unless you can prove Manhattan is Odin's ballpark, then I might consider, along with a lot of the other users, this actually being a fight. 

Not much of a point of debating if your not going to be convincing anyone, am I right?

Dr. Manhattan I would not underestimate(I'd like to see more of what he can do also) I know he's far capable of more....

" RKT, beyond easily "

Thor

"@Hellos:  I guess I'll concede, the problem here is were not in the same page.  I see the possiblities, you see the improbables.  None of my reasons are getting through to you because you're so busy trying to prove me wrong, so busy that you failed to noticed that I never stated being right.   "Not much of a point of debating if your not going to be convincing anyone, am I right?"  There is a very important point, being able to see another person's point of view is a very good reason to debate.  I see that you don't have that mentality. "

"@forze said:

"@Hellos:  I guess I'll concede, the problem here is were not in the same page.  I see the possiblities, you see the improbables.  None of my reasons are getting through to you because you're so busy trying to prove me wrong, so busy that you failed to noticed that I never stated being right.   "Not much of a point of debating if your not going to be convincing anyone, am I right?"  There is a very important point, being able to see another person's point of view is a very good reason to debate.  I see that you don't have that mentality. "

I'm certaintly not trying to block out what your saying, because I'm reading. But the problem is I just see where anything your saying about the character's hidden power is based in fact. Manhattan simply never showed the power output to pull it off, especially against someone that is well above skyfather and probably could give guys Galactus a run for his money on a good day.  The "Not much" quote was revolving around the previous statement involving your not trying to win over the masses, thats pretty much the whole point of debating here is to put together a compelling argument that will convince other users that your right on the matter. I can certaintly see your point of view, it's not based on hard facts, just more so guesses, which happens often with Manhattan. "