Dr. Manhattan vs. Molecule Man

" @Postacrat said:

" @JediXMan: your confusing constructive speculation with opinionated..in truth none of it's fruitful "

You aren't doing any better than he is. You're assuming Dr. Manhattan has what it takes to defeat Molecule Man, when there isn't enough evidence to support that he can win. "

" @erik said:

" @Static Shock said:

" @Postacrat: Molecule Man has fought Pre-Retcon Beyonder (who is more powerful than Dr. Manhattan) and has recreated a galaxy. All of Dr. Manhattan's abilities don't matter at this point. "

Except perhaps that he cannot be killed. "

Nobody ever tried before. Ozy's machine, as Manhattan himself said, is the same thing that created him in the first place. Makes perfect sense that it wouldn't kill him. "

" @erik said:

" Except perhaps that he cannot be killed. "

He could always dimension dump him somewhere else. LOL. "

" @erik:   I go by feats shown. And Watchmen specifically said that he can't change his visions, effectively making them useless in a fight. "

" @JediXMan said:

" @erik said:

" @Static Shock said:

" @Postacrat: Molecule Man has fought Pre-Retcon Beyonder (who is more powerful than Dr. Manhattan) and has recreated a galaxy. All of Dr. Manhattan's abilities don't matter at this point. "

Except perhaps that he cannot be killed. "

Nobody ever tried before. Ozy's machine, as Manhattan himself said, is the same thing that created him in the first place. Makes perfect sense that it wouldn't kill him. "

I am sure the machine was activated with the intention to kill Dr. Manhattan. The idea probably was that whatever made him has a good chance of unmaking him. "

" We know exacly the limitation on DR. M. Any matter manipulators could turn bad cells in good cells. Dr M was unable to heal cancer ... case closed. All he can do is preaty much blow up humans and tanks. "

" @Xan said:

" We know exacly the limitation on DR. M. Any matter manipulators could turn bad cells in good cells. Dr M was unable to heal cancer ... case closed. All he can do is preaty much blow up humans and tanks. "

He never tried. You are limiting him without supportive evidence. "

" Well, in Ozy's defense, what else would you do? I suppose it's the only thing that came to mind for him. Blind him with tachyons, and pray that the machine... unmakes him. "

" @erik said:

" @Xan said:

" We know exacly the limitation on DR. M. Any matter manipulators could turn bad cells in good cells. Dr M was unable to heal cancer ... case closed. All he can do is preaty much blow up humans and tanks. "

He never tried. You are limiting him without supportive evidence. "

But then why run off to Mars? He felt like he was a danger. Why not simply cure them? Would've been so much easier. "

" @JediXMan said:

" Well, in Ozy's defense, what else would you do? I suppose it's the only thing that came to mind for him. Blind him with tachyons, and pray that the machine... unmakes him. "

Lol. Actually as just a man, I thought his plan was about as good as he could hope for. The cards just did not fall in his favor for the battle but he did win the war. "

Ozy's plan was the only thing that, in his mind, would work.  "

" @JediXMan said:

" @erik said:

" @Xan said:

" We know exacly the limitation on DR. M. Any matter manipulators could turn bad cells in good cells. Dr M was unable to heal cancer ... case closed. All he can do is preaty much blow up humans and tanks. "

He never tried. You are limiting him without supportive evidence. "

But then why run off to Mars? He felt like he was a danger. Why not simply cure them? Would've been so much easier. "

No that is not what he felt. He just stopped caring and retreated emotionally. "

" @Xan said:

" We know exacly the limitation on DR. M. Any matter manipulators could turn bad cells in good cells. Dr M was unable to heal cancer ... case closed. All he can do is preaty much blow up humans and tanks. "

He never tried. You are limiting him without supportive evidence. "

" @JediXMan said:

Ozy's plan was the only thing that, in his mind, would work.  "

I am having a hard time seeing what point you are trying to make with me when I never disputed Ozy's ability. "

You sure those people actually had cancer?

" You sure those people actually had cancer? "

" If nothing else DR M was a veary fair man/god in the end. If he felt he actualy gave then cancer he would have cured then out of responsability for what he has done.   PS i only got to see the movie but from the movie Ozy made it clear that M cared for those people even if he tryied not to show it. Ozy figured it out from little things M was doing. Now i don t know how cannon the movie is but if its not perhaps someone can go to the manga and read carefuly to see if he realy never gave a damn about those people. But even then my above statemant stands he would have cured them out of responsability. "

"What do you mean? Didn't Ozymandias admit to giving them cancer to frame Dr. Manhattan? "

Ok then so how is M in the comics ? Is there any indication he cares for those people ?

"
@  JediXMan  
 

Ok then so how is M in the comics ? Is there any indication he cares for those people ?

"

Tie.

" @JediXMan said:

" @Goenitz said:

" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:

" Current Molecule Man is an absolute joke (Daken actually managed to fight back against his molecular manipulation), but he still could probably beat Manhattan. "

Agree "

Agreed. "

Yeah, this. "

" @Postacrat:Molecule Man has fought Pre-Retcon Beyonder (who is more powerful than Dr. Manhattan) and has recreated a galaxy. All of Dr. Manhattan's abilities don't matter at this point. "

"1. Current Molecule Man is nothing compared to his Pre-Retcon self.  
 2. Pre-Retcon Molecule Man repaired the entire multiverse with a twirl of a finger. "

" your just trying to make your ideals more credible based off of feats.

" There is no evidence that Dr. Manhattan can win and in the same since there is no evidence that he could lose. 

"As I said before he's never even needed to fight someone on MM level anyway, the comparison is dumb and I'm sure I said that earlier in the thread...

" I still think feats are an unfair stake in the battle

" @Postacrat said:

" your just trying to make your ideals more credible based off of feats.

That's what flies around here. Didn't you get the memo? Read the Battle Forum Rules. We don't just go by power sets here.
 
Actually my fe
 
@Postacrat said:

" There is no evidence that Dr. Manhattan can win and in the same since there is no evidence that he could lose. 

But, then there's enough evidence to support Molecule Man's ability to win. Based on showings, he has shown (keyword) to be more powerful. The winner is obvious. 
 
@Postacrat said:

"As I said before he's never even needed to fight someone on MM level anyway, the comparison is dumb and I'm sure I said that earlier in the thread...

Your feelings about it don't really matter.
 
@Postacrat said:

" I still think feats are an unfair stake in the battle

Tough rocks. "
 

"Actually my feelings do matter smart ass, that's why this is placed in the battle forum for me to state my feelings on who I think should  win for one. 

" Secondly there is no --"way that things fly" on this site, just an abundance of people who have similar mind frames. 

"Third That doesn't make feats an essential rule for battles, that's just how you get down and like to base your battles, just because others agree with you doesn't make that the way this site works that's just a majority of people who are that way.

I don't just powerset either 

" I'm well rounded in view and like I said   based off of feats, battles with Manhattan are DUMB PERIOD...WTF? "

" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:

"1. Current Molecule Man is nothing compared to his Pre-Retcon self.  
 2. Pre-Retcon Molecule Man repaired the entire multiverse with a twirl of a finger. "

1) I was obviously referring to the Pre-Retcon version, smart guy. 2) Your point? Even with what I mentioned, Dr. Manhattan doesn't compare either way. The fact that he repaired the multiverse is a technicality.  "

1. We're not using the Pre-Retcon version here

" @Postacrat said:

"Actually my feelings do matter smart ass, that's why this is placed in the battle forum for me to state my feelings on who I think should  win for one. 

First of all, I suggest you lose the profanity. Kids view the website. If you want, mask it. Second, from a logical standpoint, your opinions/feelings don't really matter in a debate. Just because they matter to you doesn't mean that they matter to others. What I said wasn't meant to insult you, so there was no need for belligerence.
 
@Postacrat said:

" Secondly there is no --"way that things fly" on this site, just an abundance of people who have similar mind frames. 

This is coming from someone who hasn't been hear long enough. From the Battle Forum Rules:
 
"Things that aren’t canon are not used in battles unless otherwise stated by the creator of the thread. For things that are canon, an understanding of the character as a whole helps determine what they can do in fights. For example, one time feats, crossover feats, powers/abilities that haven’t been used in a long time (but haven’t been specifically removed) are not to be dismissed out of hand, but they should be weighed against regular appearances and displays of abilities. Don’t just use a character’s best showings to determine what they can do, and don’t just use their worst showings to limit them."  
 
It implies that a character's regular showings/appearances are used in a battle threads. So, it is the way things fly. Sorry.
 
@Postacrat said:

"Third That doesn't make feats an essential rule for battles, that's just how you get down and like to base your battles, just because others agree with you doesn't make that the way this site works that's just a majority of people who are that way.

It's not how I get down. It's how everyone here gets down because it's a part of the website's general consensus and it's rules. If not, the Battle Forum Rules wouldn't be posted.
 
Battle Forum Rules
 
@Postacrat said:

I don't just powerset either 

You just did. The evidence is on the other page, and your entire case was built around that. 
 
@Postacrat said:

" I'm well rounded in view and like I said   based off of feats, battles with Manhattan are DUMB PERIOD...WTF? "

Why must we go against the way we do things because one character is lacking in the magnitude of his feats? That's even dumber. "

"Excuse my language you came off like a smart ass twice so I simply pointed it out, some of you should watch the tone of your text and maybe profanity won't come up." 

 "I'm usually respectful on this site.  This is a matter of my opnion vs yours I don't care how you try to justify it with BS site rules and majority favors." 

"Me being new to this site does not make you more knowledgeable than I, I don't have to bend to you because this is both fact and opinion based so like I f*cking said my opinion does matter otherwise don't put this sh!t up SMARTASS!!" 

 "Yes I have mentioned powerset but as an addition to your  view of feats as well.  You guys are going mainly off feats without  the database knowledge like it doesn't matter.  The only thing ever mentioned is his control over molecular matter and people make him seem weak at even that.  I mean I'm gonna fall back, oh chancellor of comic vine you win with all your knowledge of comic vine rules.  whoo hoo... " 

Owen wins easly

"
Excuse my language you came off like a smart ass twice so I simply pointed it out, some of you should watch the tone of your text and maybe profanity won't come up.

"I'm usually respectful on this site.

" This is a matter of my opnion vs yours I don't care how you try to justify it with BS site rules and majority favors.

"Me being new to this site does not make you more knowledgeable than I

" I don't have to bend to you because this is both fact and opinion based so like I f*cking said my opinion does matter otherwise don't put this sh!t up SMARTASS!! 

" Yes I have mentioned powerset but as an addition to your  view of feats as well.  You guys are going mainly off feats without  the database knowledge like it doesn't matter.

" The only thing ever mentioned is his control over molecular matter and people make him seem weak at even that...

" I mean I'm gonna fall back, oh chancellor of comic vine you win with all your knowledge of comic vine rules.  whoo hoo... "

Molecule man.

" @Postacrat said:

"
Excuse my language you came off like a smart ass twice so I simply pointed it out, some of you should watch the tone of your text and maybe profanity won't come up.

Yeah. I suggest you excuse your language. Simple. However, you seem to have a hard time with that. Tone of text? LOL. How is it possible to tell the tone of my text through a computer screen? I wasn't being smart with you. I was being honest, or blunt, to be exact. There's a difference. Just letting you know about the profanity thing, because the mods don't tolerate that. That's all I'm saying. The Battle Forum Rules also state to watch your language. Again. I'm just saying.
 
@Postacrat said:

"I'm usually respectful on this site.

You don't seem to be doing a good job. Could have fooled me.
 
@Postacrat said:

" This is a matter of my opnion vs yours I don't care how you try to justify it with BS site rules and majority favors.

You don't have to care. You don't even have to lose sleep because of it. Just letting you know how things are done. I didn't ask for you to accept it.
 
@Postacrat said:

"Me being new to this site does not make you more knowledgeable than I

I never said otherwise. You're bothered by the fact that you think I said otherwise.
  
@Postacrat said:

" I don't have to bend to you because this is both fact and opinion based so like I f*cking said my opinion does matter otherwise don't put this sh!t up SMARTASS!! 

I never said that you had to bend to me, so are you talking about? Are you mad? LOL. It's not that serious. But like I've been saying, your opinion doesn't matter and I honestly don't care how it makes you feel. Still using profanity? Please. It doesn't even make you seem more imposing that you've already shown to be. No one is talking to you in such a manner (and I'm lost as to why you think I'm being smart), so I don't know what the problem is. Perhaps you should leave the thread and cool off or something. I've done thing nothing to insult you. If you want to get mad, be my guest.
 
@Postacrat said:

" Yes I have mentioned powerset but as an addition to your  view of feats as well.  You guys are going mainly off feats without  the database knowledge like it doesn't matter.

The concept of using feats allows us to make comparisons and gauge the potency/effectiveness of a character's power set and how well they use them. So, you're wrong. We take power sets into consideration, but we need feats to see where these characters stand. If it's just power sets, it begs questions like:
 
"To what extent?"
"How effective is it?"
"Is there a limit?"
 
@Postacrat said:

" The only thing ever mentioned is his control over molecular matter and people make him seem weak at even that...

...simply because Molecule Man's ability to manipulate molecules overshadows Dr. Manhattan's by a significantly large margin. It's pretty obvious.
 
@Postacrat said:

" I mean I'm gonna fall back, oh chancellor of comic vine you win with all your knowledge of comic vine rules.  whoo hoo... "

LOL. Trying to being passive-aggressive about this after you've posted a mouthful of emotional and profane quibble just now doesn't really make sense to me. But, if that's how you get down, I'm not mad at you. :) "

" Current Molecule Man is an absolute joke (Daken actually managed to fight back against his molecular manipulation), but he still could probably beat Manhattan. "

" what are you a PhD? "

" in a last ditch effort to make them seem less mature than your are. 

" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:

" Current Molecule Man is an absolute joke (Daken actually managed to fight back against his molecular manipulation), but he still could probably beat Manhattan. "

Really? Draken?When? "

" @JediXMan: Got scans bro? "

Dr. M

True. The movie I felt gave off a different vibe, though.  But I thought (it's bit awhile since I read the book. I might be thinking of the movie, so bare with me) he was guilty that he'd given cancer to his ex-girlfriend (can't remember her name) "

Wasn't making a point. Mostly commenting. "

So he just runs away to Mars. He never tryied it because he can t do it. All the thing was based on DR M caring for those people (that is the reason that other guy gave them cancer) now if M can just cure then why not do it. ?? He was CLEARLY affect by that. Now if you are telling me that if he could just wave his hand and cure that women but he just never cared to do it i would say you are just saying nonsense. That was a person very close to him if he could have done it HE WOULD HAVE DONE IT. This is like Superman letting lois lane die in front of him and me saying he never had the power to save her and then you come up and saying he just does not care to save her ... lame.  "

@postacrat: im pretty sure all the stuff u said....MM can do better

Molecule Man