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#1 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

Who wins? Classic Dr Fate vs EU sidious.

Battle takes place in the Forests of Kashyyyk.

Battle ends in Death or KO

#2 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm going with classic Fate here.

#3 Edited by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know a lot about Classic Fate. But if his power level is actually equivalent to Classic Strange (like I've heard), then he wins (especially in a battle of raw power).

I know nothing about how fast Fate can react, though. If he has auto-shields like Strange, then he definitely wins. If not, and he has no way of avoiding a speedblitz, he gets stomped.

#4 Posted by Bitchgurl (131 posts) - - Show Bio

AS much as I think D.S. is a pretty awesome villian, I have to go with Fate for this one.

#5 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: I can't really vouch for Fate's speed and reaction time but he is a multiversal threat at his best.

#6 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@ssejllenrad: Yes, I know. I've heard he was on-par with Dr. Strange, who is definitely multiversal.

Anyways, all of this means nothing if he can't react and defend. Otherwise, through raw power, he should definitely be able to win.

#7 Posted by Simon_the_digger (2911 posts) - - Show Bio

Fate

#8 Posted by PlasticBag (1222 posts) - - Show Bio

Classic Fate destroys Sidious.

#9 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

Fate stomps.

#10 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

If anybody has speed/reaction feats for Fate, that'd be nice. Also, does he have any form of auto-defence? Sidious can probably only win via speedblitz, and that's if the speed/reaction for Fate is too low and he doesn't have auto-defences.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure Fate can overpower Palpatine in terms of raw power.

#11 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#12 Posted by agentxx (2533 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

If anybody has speed/reaction feats for Fate, that'd be nice. Also, does he have any form of auto-defence? Sidious can probably only win via speedblitz, and that's if the speed/reaction for Fate is too low and he doesn't have auto-defences.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure Fate can overpower Palpatine in terms of raw power.

#13 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

If anybody has speed/reaction feats for Fate, that'd be nice. Also, does he have any form of auto-defence? Sidious can probably only win via speedblitz, and that's if the speed/reaction for Fate is too low and he doesn't have auto-defences.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure Fate can overpower Palpatine in terms of raw power.

Regarding Dr. Fate speed. Its a bit hard to guage but consider the following: Fate litterly shoved an invading planet, into its sun within a few panels.

The Helm itself has the capacity to attain great vilocity, to the point of achiving the speed of a God.

Palpatine has no kind of speed like that to my understanding.

#14 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

I don't know a lot about Classic Fate. But if his power level is actually equivalent to Classic Strange (like I've heard), then he wins (especially in a battle of raw power).

I know nothing about how fast Fate can react, though. If he has auto-shields like Strange, then he definitely wins. If not, and he has no way of avoiding a speedblitz, he gets stomped.

Also, Dr Fate has been shown in the past few threads, to one of the people who could match and beat Doctor Doom.

#15 Edited by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Fate snaps his fingers. GG

#16 Posted by XiiX (7996 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sethlol said:

Fate snaps his fingers. GG

#17 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sethlol said:

Fate snaps his fingers. GG

Thanks for the bump, I'm suprised Nova hasn't replied yet. Obviously Fate's speed feats outmatch Sidious's. But can't Sidious do anything to Fate? Anything?

#18 Posted by beatboks1 (7141 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@ssejllenrad: Yes, I know. I've heard he was on-par with Dr. Strange, who is definitely multiversal.

Anyways, all of this means nothing if he can't react and defend. Otherwise, through raw power, he should definitely be able to win.

Classic Fate without any of his mystical artifacts has super Strength, Speed and invulnerability on a level close to Superman thanks to Nabu altering his molecules in his orign. This also makes him functionally immortal and unaging, the only thing that eventually made him age was the amount of magic he wielded over the decades. When he gave up the Helm of fate (it was taking him over) he was a superman type character with TP/TK/Clairvoyance who knew magic and could work minor spells (greater ones in areas of power like his Salem Tower or stone henge). Reacting shouldn't be a problem here at all.

#19 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@ShootingNova said:

@ssejllenrad: Yes, I know. I've heard he was on-par with Dr. Strange, who is definitely multiversal.

Anyways, all of this means nothing if he can't react and defend. Otherwise, through raw power, he should definitely be able to win.

Classic Fate without any of his mystical artifacts has super Strength, Speed and invulnerability on a level close to Superman thanks to Nabu altering his molecules in his orign. This also makes him functionally immortal and unaging, the only thing that eventually made him age was the amount of magic he wielded over the decades. When he gave up the Helm of fate (it was taking him over) he was a superman type character with TP/TK/Clairvoyance who knew magic and could work minor spells (greater ones in areas of power like his Salem Tower or stone henge). Reacting shouldn't be a problem here at all.

The problem should be how is Sidious going to hit him, and evade his attacks. Can Sidious use Force Shield?

#20 Posted by Sethlol (1296 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious is wiped from existence if he has to fight Classic Fate. He cant do ANYTHING against him.

#21 Edited by beatboks1 (7141 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn: My point is it shouldn't matter if Sidiuos did hit him. he'd be able to tank it.

Also I should correct my above. Classic Fate's strength and durability were superman level. His speed while Super was much less. His only weakness (and that is without the full helmet of Nabu) is that he needs to breath. So gas, no air etc could harm him. With the Helm however that weakness also disappears.

According to the banter in a battle with the Aztec god Totec in Immortal Dr fate mini he cannot be destroyed. The only way he can be "ended" is to make his host no longer want to be his host. Even Spectre couldn't destroy him in their battle in All Star Squadron only BFR him by making him shift through an infinity of dimensions at once (as only one he could return from)

#22 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@MasterJohn: My point is it shouldn't matter if Sidiuos did hit him. he'd be able to tank it.

Also I should correct my above. Classic Fate's strength and durability were superman level. His speed while Super was much less. His only weakness (and that is without the full helmet of Nabu) is that he needs to breath. So gas, no air etc could harm him. With the Helm however that weakness also disappears.

According to the banter in a battle with the Aztec god Totec in Immortal Dr fate mini he cannot be destroyed. The only way he can be "ended" is to make his host no longer want to be his host. Even Spectre couldn't destroy him in their battle in All Star Squadron only BFR him by making him shift through an infinity of dimensions at once (as only one he could return from)

Can't Sidious use mind trick then? I am trying to be fair here.

#23 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

If he had enough time to actually launch the attack, couldn't Sidious open a wormhole that teleports Fate (moreorless) into a darkhole? I imagine that would take some time... so yeha Sidious probably loses.

@MasterJohn: Generally Sith don't use Mindtrick. They could use mind dominate, but i feel Fate could withstand that, and if he withstood that then he'd definitely withstand mindtrick.

#24 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Dr.Fate, seals Darth Sidious's fate.

#25 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn: LOL, why I didn't answer yet is because I live in another part of the world.

Anyways, what is that supposed to mean? I know Fate can overpower Palpatine in terms of raw power, I'm just asking for speed. Palpatine can strike at near-relativistic speeds. Since beings who can see sub-light movement in slow motion were unable to even see Palpatine when they were fighting.

@beatboks1: So his speed and reaction is near, equal or above light speed? If so, then yes, he most certainly wins/stomps.

#26 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: Wormholes don't take time. Palpatine can cast one instantly.

#27 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: So Theoretically, couldn't he do what i suggested and send Fate into a dark hole?

#28 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@JamesKM716: He can't create Dark Holes/Black holes. He creates Wormholes. So yes, he can cast a Wormhole on top of Fate.

#29 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: LOL, why I didn't answer yet is because I live in another part of the world.

Anyways, what is that supposed to mean? I know Fate can overpower Palpatine in terms of raw power, I'm just asking for speed. Palpatine can strike at near-relativistic speeds. Since beings who can see sub-light movement in slow motion were unable to even see Palpatine when they were fighting.

@beatboks1: So his speed and reaction is near, equal or above light speed? If so, then yes, he most certainly wins/stomps.

I gave you speed feats.

#30 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn: I know that, but "God-level speed" can be quite vague.

#31 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn said:

@ShootingNova said:

I don't know a lot about Classic Fate. But if his power level is actually equivalent to Classic Strange (like I've heard), then he wins (especially in a battle of raw power).

I know nothing about how fast Fate can react, though. If he has auto-shields like Strange, then he definitely wins. If not, and he has no way of avoiding a speedblitz, he gets stomped.

Also, Dr Fate has been shown in the past few threads, to one of the people who could match and beat Doctor Doom.

Palpatine can do that as well.

#32 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: I know that, but "God-level speed" can be quite vague.

You can decide, I gave you the scans and the feat. He's more faster then Sidious in fact, unless you can show me Sidious going past the speed of light. And him stopping entire planets from hitting Earth in seconds.

#33 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn: If he can move past the speed of light, then he wins in the speed department also. Which means he can overpower Palpatine before much can be done in retaliation. As I thought, a being equivalent to Classic Strange >> Palpatine.

So then, mismatch, flagged.

#34 Posted by JamesKM716 (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: The wormholes work as teleporters more or less correct? If i'm wrong due tell me.

But my thought is opening a wormhole that sends Fate into a dark hole.

I wasn't trying to suggest that Palpatine could make a dark hole.

#35 Posted by beatboks1 (7141 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova: Slightly below light speed. Not equal or above. Add that to his clairvoyance and indestrucibility I'd say it would be hard to take him.

#36 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Then his speed matches Palpatine's. What about reaction and combat speed?

@JamesKM716 said:

@ShootingNova: The wormholes work as teleporters more or less correct? If i'm wrong due tell me.

But my thought is opening a wormhole that sends Fate into a dark hole.

I wasn't trying to suggest that Palpatine could make a dark hole.

Yes, but they can be BFR or destroyers.

#37 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@beatboks1: Then his speed matches Palpatine's. What about reaction and combat speed?

@JamesKM716 said:

@ShootingNova: The wormholes work as teleporters more or less correct? If i'm wrong due tell me.

But my thought is opening a wormhole that sends Fate into a dark hole.

I wasn't trying to suggest that Palpatine could make a dark hole.

Yes, but they can be BFR or destroyers.

Flag it, I don't care. You are the only one here rooting for Sidious. As for Combat speed, I will get back to you on that. I think Fate could withstand the pull of a wormhole.

#38 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn: Are you trying to shame me or what? Because somebody needs help. Desperate help. I was never rooting for Palpatine at any point in this thread, as far as I know, all I've asked for is to clarify. I know why you created this thread.

Honestly, what do you have against Palpatine? You can't even admit that Yoda lost to Palpatine.

#39 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: Are you trying to shame me or what? Because somebody needs help. Desperate help. I was never rooting for Palpatine at any point in this thread, as far as I know, all I've asked for is to clarify. I know why you created this thread.

Honestly, what do you have against Palpatine? You can't even admit that Yoda lost to Palpatine.

1. The incarnation of evil.

2. People think he's invincible, and can beat almost everyone. I do threads like this to collect proof to that claim. Appearntly, nothing but a wormhole attack conviences me that Sidious is getting anywhere here. Again, I thought he would win, he still might.

3. These threads are supposed to be for fun. Imagine a battle like this....

And finally 4. I think Palpatine is overrated, the only Jedi who can defeat him is Luke Skywalker...Appearntly he can beat Martian Manhunter, Superman, Zatanna, Wonder Woman, Enchantress, Winsome Witch, and even Doctor Doom....Unbelievable.

I like Yoda, I don't like to make him seem weak. In the end, he did not succeed. But, he fought the good fight.

#40 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn: Yes, and none that changes the fact that I never supported him (in fact I was leaning towards Fate) at any point in this debate. So where you got that from is utterly beyond me.

Palpatine is underrated. Severely. Yes, Luke Skywalker can defeat him, as well as all those beings you listed. I suggest you learn Luke Skywalker in the EU.

Yes, I know that. He still lost. I never said he was weak, challenging Palpatine without being stomped is proof of power.

#41 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: Yes, and none that changes the fact that I never supported him (in fact I was leaning towards Fate) at any point in this debate. So where you got that from is utterly beyond me.

Palpatine is underrated. Severely. Yes, Luke Skywalker can defeat him, as well as all those beings you listed. I suggest you learn Luke Skywalker in the EU.

Yes, I know that. He still lost. I never said he was weak, challenging Palpatine without being stomped is proof of power.

Winsome Witch could obviously beat him, but you said yourself in the Zatanna debate-she's too slow.

#42 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn: Inform me when she can move faster than a being (who can see sub-light speed movement in slow-motion) can even see.

Here is Anakin being able to see sub-light movement in slow-motion:

Obi-Wan was already making that exact move as Anakin spoke. But they were inverted to each other: breaking right shot him one way while Anakin whipped the other. The tri-fighters' cannons ripped space between them, tracking faster than their starfighters could slip. His onboard threat display chimed a warning: two of the droids had remote sensor locks on him. The others must have lit up his partner. "Anakin! Slip-jaws!"
"My thought exactly."
They blew past the tri-fighters, looping in evasive spirals. The droid ships wrenched themselves into pursuit maneuvers that would have killed any living pilot. The slip-jaws maneuver was named for the scissorlike mandibles of the Kashyyyk slash-spider. Droids closing rapidly on their tails, cannonfire stitching space on all sides, the two Jedi pulled their ships through perfectly mirrored rolls that sent them streaking head-on for each other from opposite ends of a vast Republic cruiser. For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.
But these particular pilots were far from merely human.
The Force nudged hands on control yokes and the Jedi starfighters twisted and flashed past each other belly-to-belly, close enough to scorch each other's paint.

---Taken from Revenge of the Sith

And yet, he fails to react to Palpatine:

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?
Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.

-- Taken from Revenge of the Sith

LOL yes, I've used this combo a lot.

#43 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: Inform me when she can move faster than a being (who can see sub-light speed movement in slow-motion) can even see.

Here is Anakin being able to see sub-light movement in slow-motion:

Obi-Wan was already making that exact move as Anakin spoke. But they were inverted to each other: breaking right shot him one way while Anakin whipped the other. The tri-fighters' cannons ripped space between them, tracking faster than their starfighters could slip. His onboard threat display chimed a warning: two of the droids had remote sensor locks on him. The others must have lit up his partner. "Anakin! Slip-jaws!"
"My thought exactly."
They blew past the tri-fighters, looping in evasive spirals. The droid ships wrenched themselves into pursuit maneuvers that would have killed any living pilot. The slip-jaws maneuver was named for the scissorlike mandibles of the Kashyyyk slash-spider. Droids closing rapidly on their tails, cannonfire stitching space on all sides, the two Jedi pulled their ships through perfectly mirrored rolls that sent them streaking head-on for each other from opposite ends of a vast Republic cruiser. For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.
But these particular pilots were far from merely human.
The Force nudged hands on control yokes and the Jedi starfighters twisted and flashed past each other belly-to-belly, close enough to scorch each other's paint.

---Taken from Revenge of the Sith

And yet, he fails to react to Palpatine:

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?
Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.

-- Taken from Revenge of the Sith

LOL yes, I've used this combo a lot.

Where do you get these qoutes and scans from? I'm curious.

#44 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn: Where do you think? From either:

1. The novels, themselves, if I have them.

2. Silver2467.

Honestly, you don't need to question them.

And neither of those were scans.

#45 Posted by Baldy (5021 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn said:

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: LOL, why I didn't answer yet is because I live in another part of the world.

Anyways, what is that supposed to mean? I know Fate can overpower Palpatine in terms of raw power, I'm just asking for speed. Palpatine can strike at near-relativistic speeds. Since beings who can see sub-light movement in slow motion were unable to even see Palpatine when they were fighting.

@beatboks1: So his speed and reaction is near, equal or above light speed? If so, then yes, he most certainly wins/stomps.

I gave you speed feats.

No you didn't.

The first scan you showed was meaningless, there is no way to tell how much time passed between panels. Distance is great, but unless we have a clear reference to the time involved it doesn't mean anything.

The second scan showed a speed feat for his helmet, not him. It's also incredibly vague. It apparently achieves the speed of god in meta-space but there is no reference as to whether speed works the same in meta-space as it does in normal space. Additionally, while the helmet reaches the edge of the universe, it traveled through different dimensions along the way, and as such there is no way to tell the actual distance traveled relative to the helmet's perspective.

#46 Posted by Nefarious (19675 posts) - - Show Bio

Sidious will meet his FATE.

#47 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@Baldy said:

@MasterJohn said:

@ShootingNova said:

@MasterJohn: LOL, why I didn't answer yet is because I live in another part of the world.

Anyways, what is that supposed to mean? I know Fate can overpower Palpatine in terms of raw power, I'm just asking for speed. Palpatine can strike at near-relativistic speeds. Since beings who can see sub-light movement in slow motion were unable to even see Palpatine when they were fighting.

@beatboks1: So his speed and reaction is near, equal or above light speed? If so, then yes, he most certainly wins/stomps.

I gave you speed feats.

No you didn't.

The first scan you showed was meaningless, there is no way to tell how much time passed between panels. Distance is great, but unless we have a clear reference to the time involved it doesn't mean anything.

The second scan showed a speed feat for his helmet, not him. It's also incredibly vague. It apparently achieves the speed of god in meta-space but there is no reference as to whether speed works the same in meta-space as it does in normal space. Additionally, while the helmet reaches the edge of the universe, it traveled through different dimensions along the way, and as such there is no way to tell the actual distance traveled relative to the helmet's perspective.

What are you trying to achieve? Making me look stupid? I think it's decided, this thread is leaning Fate. So can you please let this die in PEACE!?

#48 Posted by ShootingNova (16226 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

Sidious will meet his FATE.

I see what you did there..... ahem.

@MasterJohn: LOL, is that always your response to another post that you can't actually counter? He's trying to prove you wrong, not making you look stupid. LOL.

#49 Posted by RoyHarperBLOW (1495 posts) - - Show Bio

@Nefarious said:

Sidious will meet his FATE.
#50 Posted by Vaeternus (9410 posts) - - Show Bio

Classic Fate owns the old Sith easily