#101 Posted by King Saturn (223722 posts) - - Show Bio
Voidheart said:
"Precisely why i dont see Apocalypse winning no matter what"
Ah Huh...well I can agree with your thoughts on this matter here...
#102 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"Here is one way that concretely explains how Doom can beat Apocalypse. He goes back in time to when Apocalypse was abandoned as a baby and slays the child. There done."

noone knows when he was born not even him.
#103 Posted by Lunacyde (17618 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom would figure out a way.....besides anytime in his early life Doom would be able to easily kill him.

#104 Edited by Kimikirai (954 posts) - - Show Bio
kaino12 said:
"Lunacyde said:
"Here is one way that concretely explains how Doom can beat Apocalypse. He goes back in time to when Apocalypse was abandoned as a baby and slays the child. There done."

noone knows when he was born not even him."
Really? Apparently Kang the Conqueror had a pretty good idea.
The pharaoh Rama-Tut, in actuality an earlier incarnation of Kang the Conqueror who had come back in time to locate the young Apocalypse and take him under his wing, tries to convince Nur to join him, but the young mutant savagely attacks the pharaoh only to be taken down by the conqueror's futuristic weapon.
Maybe you should read Rise of Apocalypse instead of saying whatever random thought comes to your mind.

And just for giggles:

Doom killing Kang the Conqueror:
http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Fights/DoomvsMagus03.jpg

#105 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"Doom would figure out a way.....besides anytime in his early life Doom would be able to easily kill him."

the same could be said for apoc he could just stomp him to death when he is a baby. or kill his parents befor he is born. see doom needs a mechine apoc just needs to know ahead and its not like that hasent happend holocost and sugerman both have time traveled and who knows how many others.
#106 Posted by Kimikirai (954 posts) - - Show Bio
kaino12 said:
"Lunacyde said:
"Doom would figure out a way.....besides anytime in his early life Doom would be able to easily kill him."

the same could be said for apoc he could just stomp him to death when he is a baby. or kill his parents befor he is born. see doom needs a mechine apoc just needs to know ahead and its not like that hasent happend holocost and sugerman both have time traveled and who knows how many others."
Apocalypse has time traveled when? Never.
#107 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio
Kimikirai said:
"kaino12 said:
"Lunacyde said:
"Doom would figure out a way.....besides anytime in his early life Doom would be able to easily kill him."

the same could be said for apoc he could just stomp him to death when he is a baby. or kill his parents befor he is born. see doom needs a mechine apoc just needs to know ahead and its not like that hasent happend holocost and sugerman both have time traveled and who knows how many others."
Apocalypse has time traveled when? Never."

apoc never time traveled he's got henchmen for that. nah he just doesnt age. if theres any one he needs dead he sets things up so they die. otherwise he can out live them. he has never needed doom to be dead thats why he isent.
#108 Edited by Quintus_Knightfall (84356 posts) - - Show Bio
Voidheart said:
"Apoc used his body weight and leverage to his advantage in the fight with hulk, the fight with Ikaris doesn't prove anything, Ikaris is a ton ?? class and Britain a 90 tonner

LMAO. If Apoc can use his weight against the Hulk, then why couldnt he do it against Doom? Youre making my case for me. Prime Eternal Ikaris is weaker then Captain Britain? I'd need to see proof of that fact.
caption





















Voidheart
said:
the fight with phoenix, how exactly did the fight end? ;)

He probably lost. Thats not the point I was trying to make :) You posted a scan of Doom gettin jaw jacked by CB. I showed you a scan of Apoc taking a blast from the Phoenix.

Voidheart said:

Plus here some things Doom could do to apoc





destroys IW's shield with one blast
















































caption
























Laughs off Blackbolts yell and Cyclops' eye blast (at the same time) 616

















































Voidheart said:



Magic is Doom's major advantage in my opinion. But this scan doesnt really show anything. Just low level TK and blast powers. Both of which Apoc has.

Voidheart said:

He could conjur mindless ones whoc ould aid him in the fight against apoc




With the prep time given, Apoc could utilize the same tactic. He can turn even the weakest mutant/human into a Horsemen.

Voidheart said:

Or hypnotize him




LMFAO. Come on man, she's just standing there staring into his eyes. I dont think Apoc plays on that side of the street. He's owned Xavier, Cable, and Jean Grey in telepathy battles. I doubt very much Doom would be able to hypnotize him.
caption
















































Voidheart said:
"Blast him





You can go back to the scan of Black Bolt and Cyclops trying to blast Apoc for my response to this. Or use this scan.
He can morph his body anyway he wants.

















































Voidheart said:
Plus, there is NOTHING apocalypse can do to get ANYWHERE near this



End of Story"

What happened next? Did Doom get back in the fight? Or as the caption says, his armor only saved him from total defeat and destruction? Apoc doesn't have to blast Doom to win. His celestail tech and ability to control every molecule in his body, give him other options.
Doom took a blast from Thor's hammer and survived. Apoc took a blast from the High Evolutionary at point blank range and laughed.


















































End of story? I'm just gettin started

Moderator
#109 Posted by warlock360 (27919 posts) - - Show Bio
King Saturn said:
"Kimikirai said:
"Lunacyde said:
"Molecule Man doesnt compare to Phoenix?
"
Do not forget Magus with the Infinite Gauntlet.


"
Oooh Cool"
Doom went back into fight
#110 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84356 posts) - - Show Bio

Dooms so badass. Gotta run for a bit. But you've changed my mind. Doom would win. Yaaaaay we can all hold hands and be friends now.

Moderator
#111 Posted by Erik (31417 posts) - - Show Bio

DOOOOOOOOMMMMMM!!!

#112 Posted by warlock360 (27919 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Dooms so badass. Gotta run for a bit. But you've changed my mind. Doom would win. Yaaaaay we can all hold hands and be friends now."
... your lying aren't you? :P
#113 Posted by Lunacyde (17618 posts) - - Show Bio
Voidheart said:
"Gambler said:
"Dooms so badass. Gotta run for a bit. But you've changed my mind. Doom would win. Yaaaaay we can all hold hands and be friends now."
... your lying aren't you? :P"
Haha
#114 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio
Kimikirai said:
"kaino12 said:
dr doom has had any but a normal life span he's been killed like three times (not includeing doombots). and apocalypse has an infinate lifespan and knows it dr doom knows his mortality u cant compare them. apoc can wait as long as he wants he'll never age. he doesnt move with the reckless hast that others do cus he can afford to and 616 he succeded and i read what u said and he dident do much cus he dident want to.
Doom was never killed in 616. He has been presumed dead before, but it was never the case. The rest of what you say is BS. Apocalypse didn't do much because he didn't want to? Um.. why do you think the X-men have thwarted him so many times? Because he was trying (keyword) to conquer Earth. And when did Apocalypse conquer 616 Earth? He never did. He ruled in AoA. An alternate version of AoA. AndEarth Askani. Never 616.

i admit doom is really smart thats the reason i say he wins in alot of other threads but everything doom knows apoc knows. if not he has a way of finding out the only reason he isent as smart as doom is cus he thinks he's smart enough and we all know doom has the same vainity weakness apoc has.
BS. Dr. Doom has much better knowledge in technology and sorcery than Apocalypse. Apocalypse can't even time travel, a regular function in Doom's armor. Oh, and in case you didn't know, Kang the Conqueror (a villain Dr. Doom defeated along with Magus and Warlock at the same time) could have killed Apoc in the past if he wanted to. Think of what Doom can do.

"
apoc hasnt had a reason to time travel. he probably could devlop the technology if he wanted like he did with teleportation. do we know witch apocolipse this is? it could be aoa. oh and every body else seemed to be fighting apoc why wasent doom? im assumeing he attacked latvairia also. u dont really hear about it much. u know what else u dont hear about much the other places he easly conquered.
#115 Posted by warlock360 (27919 posts) - - Show Bio

yea well if your gonna go like that then im going to say this could also be beyonder doom who was omnipotent and would banish Apoc from existence so meh

#116 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio
Voidheart said:
"yea well if your gonna go like that then im going to say this could also be beyonder doom who was omnipotent and would banish Apoc from existence so meh"

true. its wierd he always seems to get someone elses powers. Doom just be ur self!!
#117 Posted by King Saturn (223722 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Dooms so badass. Gotta run for a bit. But you've changed my mind. Doom would win. Yaaaaay we can all hold hands and be friends now."
Ha Ha Ha  !  Wow...
#118 Posted by warlock360 (27919 posts) - - Show Bio
kaino12 said:
"Voidheart said:
"yea well if your gonna go like that then im going to say this could also be beyonder doom who was omnipotent and would banish Apoc from existence so meh"

true. its wierd he always seems to get someone elses powers. Doom just be ur self!!"Um
 done
#119 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio

his castle must be filled with holes in the ground.

#120 Posted by phoenixphreek (30 posts) - - Show Bio

very close but i'll give the slight edge to poccy. w/prep doom would win though

#121 Edited by Kimikirai (954 posts) - - Show Bio

@ Gambler:

On penetrating Sue's forcefield:
Busting Sue's forcefield is nothing. Literally: http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/oo326/OneDumbG0/Doom%20Stats/DoomForcefields01200.jpg
Especially considering Doom's fields have tanked shots from Galactus, Beyonder, and Thanos with Infinity Gauntlet.

On tanking Blackbolt and Cyclop's shot:
Either Blackbolt wasn't trying really hard, or they retconned Apocalypses durability:



On Doom tanking Thanos with IG shot:
Yes. He did get back into the fight with the same intentions of stealing it.

On High Evolutionary:
High Evolutionary did not want to fight. He just wanted Apocalypse out of his way. Regardless, Apoc didn't even beat him. On the other hand, Dr. Doom DID beat Adam Warlock. I say that Adam Warlock can beat the High Evolutionary. But I can see how someone can say otherwise. however, what cannot be denied is that beating Kang the Conqueror, Adam Warlock, Magus > stalemating the High Evolutionary.

#122 Posted by Carter Legacy (273 posts) - - Show Bio

That scan means nothing. That's not the 616 Marvel U.

#123 Posted by Carter Legacy (273 posts) - - Show Bio

There was more in my post by the way. If you read what I actually say, I said nothing about Apoc beating High Evolutionary. Didnt Apoc beat Kang? Before he had his tech?

#124 Edited by Kimikirai (954 posts) - - Show Bio
Carter Legacy said:
"That scan means nothing. That's not the 616 Marvel U."
True.

To tell the truth, I just had an itch to post that. Its one of the best moments of HoM. XD
#125 Posted by Carter Legacy (273 posts) - - Show Bio
Kimikirai said:
"Carter Legacy said:
"That scan means nothing. That's not the 616 Marvel U."
True.

To tell the truth, I just had an itch to post that. Its one of the best moments of HoM. XD"
I knew someone would post that scan sooner or later lol
#126 Posted by Kimikirai (954 posts) - - Show Bio
Carter Legacy said:
"There was more in my post by the way. If you read what I actually say, I said nothing about Apoc beating High Evolutionary. Didnt Apoc beat Kang? Before he had his tech?"
No. Apocalypse fell to Kang's weaponry. He did manage to escape though.
#127 Posted by Dr. Victor von Doom (3118 posts) - - Show Bio
Gambler said:
"Voidheart said:

End of story? I'm just gettin started

"


Doom hypnotized a giant monster from another world

also easily deflects Cyclops blast
#128 Posted by Carter Legacy (273 posts) - - Show Bio
Kimikirai said:
"Carter Legacy said:
"There was more in my post by the way. If you read what I actually say, I said nothing about Apoc beating High Evolutionary. Didnt Apoc beat Kang? Before he had his tech?"
No. Apocalypse fell to Kang's weaponry. He did manage to escape though."
Ahh, cool. Thanks.
#129 Posted by Carter Legacy (273 posts) - - Show Bio
Dr. Victor von Doom said:
"Gambler said:
"Voidheart said:

End of story? I'm just gettin started

"


Doom hypnotized a giant monster from another world

also easily deflects Cyclops blast"
Second scan's impressive. First one not so much. A Sea Monster? Come on.
#130 Posted by Dr. Victor von Doom (3118 posts) - - Show Bio

Well he wanted something else than a woman, and i gave him a monster

#131 Posted by never give up (9456 posts) - - Show Bio

Doom for the win.

#132 Posted by Carter Legacy (273 posts) - - Show Bio
Dr. Victor von Doom said:
"Well he wanted something else than a woman, and i gave him a monster"
I meant something with some level of intellect. I already showed you scans of Apoc resisting mental attacks from Xavier. Charming a Sea Monster doesn't prove he could do it to Apoc. You should have posted the scan of him hypnotizing Magneto. That would have been something ;)
#133 Posted by never give up (9456 posts) - - Show Bio
caption
#134 Posted by Dr. Victor von Doom (3118 posts) - - Show Bio
Carter Legacy said:
"Dr. Victor von Doom said:
"Well he wanted something else than a woman, and i gave him a monster"
I meant something with some level of intellect. I already showed you scans of Apoc resisting mental attacks from Xavier. Charming a Sea Monster doesn't prove he could do it to Apoc. You should have posted the scan of him hypnotizing Magneto. That would have been something ;)"
It aint a damn sea monster, it's from nightmare
#135 Posted by Carter Legacy (273 posts) - - Show Bio
Dr. Victor von Doom said:
It aint a damn sea monster, it's from nightmare"
LMAO oooookay. I already agreed Doom wins. But that scan is weak :P
#136 Posted by never give up (9456 posts) - - Show Bio
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#137 Posted by never give up (9456 posts) - - Show Bio
caption
#138 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Alternate universes don't count.

Apocalypse has taken Black Bolt's best at point blank and laughed it off.

#139 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
Kimikirai said:
"Zoom said:
"Step on him.

Lets be honest.  Doom gets beaten by the Fantastic Four.  The only member of the Fantastic Four that could even scratch Apocalypse is Sue."
If we're to play that way, Apocalypse has got his butt kicked by the X-men numerous times.

How about this.. let's be honest. How many times has Apocalypse conquered Earth in the 616 continuum? And Dr. Doom? Who does Thanos consider a threat? Doom or Apocalypse? (hint: http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...ct02TheEnd1.jpg) Who has never been beaten by Magneto and who has been beaten by Magneto? Who is considered a universal threat?
"
The X-Men are soooooooo much tougher than the Fantastic Four.

They boast several members that could solo the FF.

Doom lost to Storm.  Storm can't even hurt Apocalypse.
#140 Posted by Dr. Victor von Doom (3118 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"Kimikirai said:
"Zoom said:
"Step on him.

Lets be honest.  Doom gets beaten by the Fantastic Four.  The only member of the Fantastic Four that could even scratch Apocalypse is Sue."
If we're to play that way, Apocalypse has got his butt kicked by the X-men numerous times.

How about this.. let's be honest. How many times has Apocalypse conquered Earth in the 616 continuum? And Dr. Doom? Who does Thanos consider a threat? Doom or Apocalypse? (hint: http://i388.photobucket.com/albums/...ct02TheEnd1.jpg) Who has never been beaten by Magneto and who has been beaten by Magneto? Who is considered a universal threat?
"
The X-Men are soooooooo much tougher than the Fantastic Four.

They boast several members that could solo the FF.

Doom lost to Storm.  Storm can't even hurt Apocalypse."
#141 Posted by The Devil Tiger (1263 posts) - - Show Bio

  I would say Doom with prep time, cause he waaaay more smart than Apoc. (Heh, he has conquered the world, Twice !) and he's basically a human. Apoc has maybe more raw power, but let's face it, he has been beaten so many time...and has done nothing of real lasting importance ! 

#142 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
The Devil Tiger said:
"but let's face it, he has been beaten so many time...and has done nothing of real lasting importance ! "
The exact same thing can be said of Doom.
#143 Posted by Dr. Victor von Doom (3118 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
"The Devil Tiger said:
"but let's face it, he has been beaten so many time...and has done nothing of real lasting importance ! "
The exact same thing can be said of Doom."
What?
#144 Edited by Kimikirai (954 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
The X-Men are soooooooo much tougher than the Fantastic Four.
Doom doesn't lose to the FF's strength. He loses to Reed Richard's mind and plot devices.

They boast several members that could solo the FF.
Solo the FF in a random encounter, maybe. And that "maybe" is only Ice Man, Cable, or Jean. With Prep, FF will always beat the X-men.

And now that you mention it, when was the last time an X-men made a fool of the Fantastic Four? I know Sue tooled Rogue, Dazzler, Havoc, and Long Shot.

Outside of Iceman, Sue Richards can probably take out every other X-men.

Doom lost to Storm.  Storm can't even hurt Apocalypse.
Called Plot. Apocalypse has been hurt by people who wouldn't hurt Doom either. Magneto for one.
#145 Posted by never give up (9456 posts) - - Show Bio
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#146 Posted by Dr. Victor von Doom (3118 posts) - - Show Bio
never give up said:
"
caption
"
WHOAH!
#147 Posted by Lunacyde (17618 posts) - - Show Bio

So far I gotta say the evidence is in Doom's favor.

#148 Posted by kaino12 (3151 posts) - - Show Bio

i gotta say logic is in apocolipse's faver but then agen we dont do logic we do fact.

#149 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
Dr. Victor von Doom said:
"Zoom said:
"The Devil Tiger said:
"but let's face it, he has been beaten so many time...and has done nothing of real lasting importance ! "
The exact same thing can be said of Doom."
What?"
The exact same can be said of Doom.

If Doom had never existed, how would the Marvel Universe be any different?  It wouldn't have been conquered that one time and then given back?  Nobody would have stolen the Beyonders power and then lost them?

If you find Apocalypse to be completely inconsequential, I can't see how Doom is any different.  They're both smart, powerful villains that come up with these great plots and in the end are defeated and everything goes back to how it was before.

Kimikirai said:
"Zoom said:
The X-Men are soooooooo much tougher than the Fantastic Four.
Doom doesn't lose to the FF's strength. He loses to Reed Richard's mind and plot devices.

So when Apocalypse loses to the X-Men, it's because he's weak but when Doom loses to the Fantastic Four, it's a plot device.  Got it.

They boast several members that could solo the FF.
Solo the FF in a random encounter, maybe. And that "maybe" is only Ice Man, Cable, or Jean. With Prep, FF will always beat the X-men.

And now that you mention it, when was the last time an X-men made a fool of the Fantastic Four? I know Sue tooled Rogue, Dazzler, Havoc, and Long Shot.

Outside of Iceman, Sue Richards can probably take out every other X-men.


Xavier, Iceman, Jean, Cable, Storm, X-Man, Rachel Summers, Nightcrawler, Shadowcat, Magneto, Psylocke, Emma Frost, Karma, Northstar, Magik I and II could all take Sue just fine.

Dazzler and Havoc aren't exactly their strongest members.



Doom lost to Storm.  Storm can't even hurt Apocalypse.
Called Plot. Apocalypse has been hurt by people who wouldn't hurt Doom either. Magneto for one."

Maybe AoA Magneto.
#150 Edited by Kimikirai (954 posts) - - Show Bio
Zoom said:
The exact same can be said of Doom.
False.

If Doom had never existed, how would the Marvel Universe be any different?  It wouldn't have been conquered that one time and then given back?  Nobody would have stolen the Beyonders power and then lost them?
If Doom hadn't existed:

  1. The Infinite War would have been effected. Thanos, or even more probable, Magus might still hold the gauntlet.
  2. Akhenaten, who killed all the heroes/villains of Earth via Heart of the Universe, would still be alive and all those heroes/villains including Apocalypse, wouldn't.
  3. Valeria Richards would not have been born, and thus, Galactus would not have been revived and Abraxas would have destroyed the Universe.

How about Apocalypse? Thats right, he never effects anything outside of 616 Earth. He barely effects anything inside 616 Earth.
If you find Apocalypse to be completely inconsequential, I can't see how Doom is any different.
Maybe because Doom's actions have made lasting impressions on the 616. Whereas, Apocalypse.. well.. not so much.

 They're both smart, powerful villains that come up with these great plots and in the end are defeated and everything goes back to how it was before.
This has already been proven, as I stated earlier, False.