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#101 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

said:

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

:

No, but there is a universal rule that has the lore outranking "in-game" feats. Something you are having trouble understanding.

Just get directly to the point next time lol.

Actually, the main questline is canon. And I don't recall a dragon ever showing continent busting force. And no. Dragonborn doesn't really one shot a mountain or a city..

Because, again you're talking about the game. That's why you never see it, and more than likely, never will.

so.. you can show me dragonborn, or any skyrim character, one shotting a nation in lore?

You do realize that will mean end of everything the game ever established, including the official cinematics?

#102 Posted by Silverrings (2290 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not seeing how Smaug wins, given the rules in the OP.

#103 Posted by reikai (4536 posts) - - Show Bio

Taste the World Eater Beater!

#104 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

said:

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

:

No, but there is a universal rule that has the lore outranking "in-game" feats. Something you are having trouble understanding.

Just get directly to the point next time lol.

Actually, the main questline is canon. And I don't recall a dragon ever showing continent busting force. And no. Dragonborn doesn't really one shot a mountain or a city..

Because, again you're talking about the game. That's why you never see it, and more than likely, never will.

so.. you can show me dragonborn, or any skyrim character, one shotting a nation in lore?

You do realize that will mean end of everything the game ever established, including the official cinematics?

There goes that word again. lol I feel like Reikai already went over the cinematics thing with you?

Anyways, you can read it, but you ain't gonna see it. Pick up some books next time you play skyrim, or search them up. Or even spend some time on the wikia. That's where you'll find the lore. You're asking for a book with pictures. I can't give you that.

#105 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: So basically, you have absolutely nothing that contradicts on-screen level, no feats to show, no point whatsoever and had a page long discussion for no reason at all. Way to go.

For the record, about the cinematics, he was talking about the ones restrained by gameplay. Not the actual animated ones.

Considering you have no point and nothing to add here, I presume we're back to square one?

No feats of one shotting a city block.

#106 Posted by reikai (4536 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4 @princearagorn1: Should watch this. Really this is the only thing Zenimax did right. This really just shows how ridiculously powerful mages and dremora can be.

#107 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@redmonkeyssj4 @princearagorn1: Should watch this. Really this is the only thing Zenimax did right. This really just shows how ridiculously powerful mages and dremora can be.

I saw the three cinematics just today lol. Loved them. And yes, I can see a dragonborn performing at that level, even higher.

But you know that it's complete and utter child's play to an mountain buster, right?

#108 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: So basically, you have absolutely nothing that contradicts on-screen level, no feats to show, no point whatsoever and had a page long discussion for no reason at all. Way to go.

For the record, about the cinematics, he was talking about the ones restrained by gameplay. Not the actual animated ones.

Considering you have no point and nothing to add here, I presume we're back to square one?

No feats of one shotting a city block.

It really isn't that hard to read. By your logic, if this was 2011 Smaug would be featless, despite him being written in 1928.

#109 Posted by Eisenfauste (8645 posts) - - Show Bio

Dragonborn

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#110 Posted by BigCimmerian (8687 posts) - - Show Bio

Smaug lost every fight on the Comic Vine lol.

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#111 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

@redmonkeyssj4: So basically, you have absolutely nothing that contradicts on-screen level, no feats to show, no point whatsoever and had a page long discussion for no reason at all. Way to go.

For the record, about the cinematics, he was talking about the ones restrained by gameplay. Not the actual animated ones.

Considering you have no point and nothing to add here, I presume we're back to square one?

No feats of one shotting a city block.

It really isn't that hard to read. By your logic, if this was 2011 Smaug would be featless, despite him being written in 1928.

really. Is it that hard to actually get to the point at the beginning?

#112 Edited by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@redmonkeyssj4: So basically, you have absolutely nothing that contradicts on-screen level, no feats to show, no point whatsoever and had a page long discussion for no reason at all. Way to go.

For the record, about the cinematics, he was talking about the ones restrained by gameplay. Not the actual animated ones.

Considering you have no point and nothing to add here, I presume we're back to square one?

No feats of one shotting a city block.

It really isn't that hard to read. By your logic, if this was 2011 Smaug would be featless, despite him being written in 1928.

really. Is it that hard to actually get to the point at the beginning?

Please don't change the subject.

#113 Edited by ShadoVvlite (1205 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: I think what he is saying is the origin of a work. In LOTR the story was first established by written novel, thus should the feats be applied from which it began (unless stated otherwise), especially since the novel is what depicts the most accurate details or story. While in Skyrim, it is meant to be started as a game and created as a game, so most of which is given is in the game. Well, that's how I interpreted it, I may be wrong.

#114 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

really. Is it that hard to actually get to the point at the beginning?

Please don't change the subject.

Subject? I literally asked you to get to the point, because you already wasted a page's worth of argument with absolutely nothing worth adding to the discussion going on, and now you're starting to go down the same path.

Are you planning to show dragonborn busting a mountain.. ever? If you have no material to back up your statements, there is no reason to get involved in a discussion at all.

@redmonkeyssj4: I think what he is trying to say is the origin of a work. In LOTR the story was first established by written novel, thus should the feats be applied from which it began (unless stated otherwise), especially since the novel is what depicts the most accurate details or story. While in Skyrim, it is meant to be started as a game and created as a game, so most of which is given is in the game. Well, that's how I interpreted it, I may be wrong.

more or less.

This right here is getting straight to the point. Thank you.

#115 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: I think what he is trying to say is the origin of a work. In LOTR the story was first established by written novel, thus should the feats be applied from which it began (unless stated otherwise), especially since the novel is what depicts the most accurate details or story. While in Skyrim, it is meant to be started as a game and created as a game, so most of which is given is in the game. Well, that's how I interpreted it, I may be wrong.

Star Wars The Force Unleashed was a game first. People swear by their life the novel is the canon source rendering the game unavailing. Just think of Skyrim in that sense in respect with the lore.

#116 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

@princearagorn1 said:

really. Is it that hard to actually get to the point at the beginning?

Please don't change the subject.

Subject? I literally asked you to get to the point, because you already wasted a page's worth of argument with absolutely nothing worth adding to the discussion going on, and now you're starting to go down the same path.

Are you planning to show dragonborn busting a mountain.. ever? If you have no material to back up your statements, there is no reason to get involved in a discussion at all.

@shadovvlite said:

@redmonkeyssj4: I think what he is trying to say is the origin of a work. In LOTR the story was first established by written novel, thus should the feats be applied from which it began (unless stated otherwise), especially since the novel is what depicts the most accurate details or story. While in Skyrim, it is meant to be started as a game and created as a game, so most of which is given is in the game. Well, that's how I interpreted it, I may be wrong.

more or less.

This right here is getting straight to the point. Thank you.

Lore> In game feats. How are you not getting this yet? You keep asking me the same thing, "show me this that etc.". I keep repeating myself. Read something. It is not that hard, if you need me to find a link to what the lore or books say, I'll do it for you. I'll even screenshot the text, and post it so all you have to do is literally read. You keep asking for books with pictures.

#117 Edited by ShadoVvlite (1205 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: I don't know much about the game, so I got a quick look from multiple cites, and it says the novel was written in 2007, while the game was released 2008-09 (region dependent) and had a partnership with Dark Horse Comics, who makes the comics for Star Wars. So by the information you can tell the novel is in fact canon. But that's not the point here.

#118 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio


This right here is getting straight to the point. Thank you.

You keep asking me the same thing, "show me this that etc.". I keep repeating myself. Read something. It is not that hard, if you need me to find a link to what the lore or books say, I'll do it for you. I'll even screenshot the text, and post it so all you have to do is literally read. You keep asking for books with pictures.

okay, go on then.

If you actually had done that in your first post.. about two dozen posts would have been avoided.

Lore> In game feats. How are you not getting this yet?

And who said that, exactly? What about the power levels established by official (non game-play based, animated ones) cinematics?

#119 Edited by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio
#120 Edited by ShadoVvlite (1205 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: If you keep reading the web you posted, it says "canonical". But like I said, that is not the point in this issue. Now I don't know much about Skyrim and this debate, as I was here just to rephrase a comment, but my thoughts are that whatever is first (meaning whatever product is initially meant to be made of, novel, game, comic, etc.) is what should be first depicted from, "unless" stated otherwise.

#121 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

This right here is getting straight to the point. Thank you.

You keep asking me the same thing, "show me this that etc.". I keep repeating myself. Read something. It is not that hard, if you need me to find a link to what the lore or books say, I'll do it for you. I'll even screenshot the text, and post it so all you have to do is literally read. You keep asking for books with pictures.

okay, go on then.

If you actually had done that in your first post.. about two dozen posts would have been avoided.

Lore> In game feats. How are you not getting this yet?

And who said that, exactly? What about the power levels established by official (non game-play based, animated ones) cinematics?

Why would I put up all that effort, if you simply refuse to acknowledge that Lore>In-Game feats, something like that is common knowledge. Pope already went over with you why Lore>In-Game feats, why is that so hard to grasp?

#122 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: If you keep reading the web you posted, it says "canonical". But like I said, that is not the point in this issue. Now I don't know much about Skyrim and this debate, as I was here just to rephrase a comment, but my thoughts are that whatever is first (meaning whatever product is initially meant to be made of, novel, game, comic, etc.) is what should be first depicted from, "unless" stated otherwise.

So what comes first> canon? GT came before BoG.

#123 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1 said:

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

This right here is getting straight to the point. Thank you.

You keep asking me the same thing, "show me this that etc.". I keep repeating myself. Read something. It is not that hard, if you need me to find a link to what the lore or books say, I'll do it for you. I'll even screenshot the text, and post it so all you have to do is literally read. You keep asking for books with pictures.

okay, go on then.

If you actually had done that in your first post.. about two dozen posts would have been avoided.

Lore> In game feats. How are you not getting this yet?

And who said that, exactly? What about the power levels established by official (non game-play based, animated ones) cinematics?

Why would I put up all that effort, if you simply refuse to acknowledge that Lore>In-Game feats, something like that is common knowledge. Pope already went over with you why Lore>In-Game feats, why is that so hard to grasp?

so... why did you reply about thirty times till now again?

Let me ask you a simple question. Game-wise, The dragon failed to one shot a city. Would the lore change things and say the blast of fire engulfed a country or something? NO. It'll still say the dragon failed to one shot a city. That's an unchangeable fact.

They don't have to show it in the game. Simple dialogue, or plot points would be enough. There is no reason for even a district level character to have such a miserable output.

Even cinematics wise. They're not even remotely nearing the levels you put them on. And those aren't limited by gameplay either.

Still, if you have any feats from the books, feel free to post them. I don't mind taking a look. Because you have been posting without any kind of point for a while now.

#124 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

@princearagorn1 said:

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

This right here is getting straight to the point. Thank you.

You keep asking me the same thing, "show me this that etc.". I keep repeating myself. Read something. It is not that hard, if you need me to find a link to what the lore or books say, I'll do it for you. I'll even screenshot the text, and post it so all you have to do is literally read. You keep asking for books with pictures.

okay, go on then.

If you actually had done that in your first post.. about two dozen posts would have been avoided.

Lore> In game feats. How are you not getting this yet?

And who said that, exactly? What about the power levels established by official (non game-play based, animated ones) cinematics?

Why would I put up all that effort, if you simply refuse to acknowledge that Lore>In-Game feats, something like that is common knowledge. Pope already went over with you why Lore>In-Game feats, why is that so hard to grasp?

so... why did you reply about thirty times till now again?

Let me ask you a simple question. Game-wise, The dragon failed to one shot a city. Would the lore change things and say the blast of fire engulfed a country or something? NO. It'll still say the dragon failed to one shot a city. That's an unchangeable fact.

They don't have to show it in the game. Simple dialogue, or plot points would be enough. There is no reason for even a district level character to have such a miserable output.

Even cinematics wise. They're not even remotely nearing the levels you put them on. And those aren't limited by gameplay either.

Still, if you have any feats from the books, feel free to post them. I don't mind taking a look. Because you have been posting without any kind of point for a while now.

I'm guessing you're still not going to accept, Lore> In-game?

#125 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: Do you plan to post lore feats.. ever?

Because you seem to have nothing either way. Lore wise, or game wise. If you have them, post them, and we'll see about their credibility. If you don't have them to begin with, no need to keep posting without anything worth paying attention to.

#126 Edited by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

@reikai said:

We go by progression of ability and how the figures are placed. We have actual lore that states the Graybeards whispering the name "Talos" caused all of Tamriel (the continent) to shake.

We also have testimony from Parthurnaax who tells the Dovahkiin that there had been no greater masters than the Ancient Tongues whom he trained himself during the Dragon War. Those being Felldir, Hakon and Gormlaith. Also stating that even combined they were no match for Alduin in open battle. Yet as the Storyline tells us and Parthurnaax witnesses that the Dovahkiin, by himself, does beat Alduin in open conflict and forces him to retreat to Sovngarde. Which indicates that his Voice and abilities greatly surpass those of whom Par trained personally.

Through the Dragonborn DLC we then learn of Miraak, who was the First Dragonborn and that the Tongues had sought to ally with him to defeat Alduin, only to be turned down. We know from both story and experience that Miraak could take control over Dragons and has killed a number of them to increase his powers, making Miraak more powerful than the Tongues. Yet as we also know that the Last Dragonborn (the player) is still more powerful than Miraak, despite Miraak having more than 4000yrs of prep to build up his power within Hermaeus Mora's realm of Apocrypha.

What is also stated and noted in the story is that the Dragonborn's power grows with every dragon soul consumed, and that s/he gains the knowledge of each dragon slain. He also gains all the dragon souls and power Miraak possessed when he died, since the Dovahkiin took his soul as well. Given the number of necesssary dragonsouls needed for unlocking Shouts and those possessed by Miraak himself, making his legit total over 100 Dragon Souls.

Even if we looked at it like basic math, the Dovahkiin would have the power and knowledge of a hundred dragons at least. He was already on a higher level than the Graybeards long before acquiring so many souls.

This is how I look at it.

Graybeards: Team of 4. Whispered and shook a continent.

Ancient Tongues: Team of 3. Stated stronger than Graybeards. Killed dragons and challenged Alduin. They failed.

Miraak: Singular figure. Stronger than Tongues. Killed and controlled Dragons. Bested by Vahlok and company of dragons, forced to retreat to Apocrypha, built power over thousands of years.

Alduin: The World Eater. Son of Akatosh. More powerful than all of the above. Openly defeated the Tongues. His lackeys drove Miraak into hiding.

Last Dragonborn: Displayed and stated more powerful than continent-shaking Graybeards and dragon-murdering Tongues. Defeated and killed both Miraak and Alduin in single combat.

Song of Tiber Septim It actually says the world shook when the Greybeards spoke Talos' name, and not the continent. Warning, there are no pictures. I know you like illustrated proof, but lore doesn't come with pictures. Yes, this is from a book, from Skyrim. Can't do screenshots on Ubuntu for some reason. Link is best i can do.

#127 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: So.. which dragonborn is throwing a mountain buster here again?

I was actually thinking you'd use something from infernal city lol.

#128 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: The one stronger than the Greybeards; who shook the world with their voice.

#129 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: I don't see anything even remotely related to combat, or destructive power.

Let me be a little clearer: An attack this powerful: (this isn't even mountain busting, just thought it should be good for starters)

Doesn't have to be visual. I can read just fine.

#130 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

The Song of Tiber Septim

From the Odes:

"He was born in Atmora as Talos, 'Stormcrown' in the language of the ancient Ehlnofey, and it was from that shore he sailed. He spent his youth in Skyrim among the Nords. There he learned much from the Tongues and their chieftains and their ways of war. At twenty he led the invasion of Old Hrol'dan, taking it back from the Witchmen of High Rock and their kinsmen.

"Soon the Greybeards made known that they were restless. Already the storms had begun from their murmurs. The Greybeards were going to Speak. The surrounding villages were abandoned as the people fled the coming blast.

"The villagers warned Talos to turn back, for he was marching to the mountain where the Greybeards dwelt.

"Inside he went, and on seeing him they removed their gags. When they spoke his name the World shook.

"The Tongues of Skyrim told the son of Atmora that he had come to rule Tamriel and that he must travel south to do so.

"And it is true that Talos did come to Cyrodiil shortly after the Battle of Old Hrol'dan.

"And it is true that a great storm preceded his arrival."

Voices that shook the world, merely just made Dovahkiin just stumble.

@reikai said:

Ancient Tongues: Team of 3. Stated stronger than Graybeards. Killed dragons and challenged Alduin. They failed.

Miraak: Singular figure. Stronger than Tongues. Killed and controlled Dragons. Bested by Vahlok and company of dragons, forced to retreat to Apocrypha, built power over thousands of years.

Alduin: The World Eater. Son of Akatosh. More powerful than all of the above. Openly defeated the Tongues. His lackeys drove Miraak into hiding.

Last Dragonborn: Displayed and stated more powerful than world*-shaking Graybeards and dragon-murdering Tongues. Defeated and killed both Miraak and Alduin in single combat.

#131 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: I edited the first comment.

And did the force of them speaking at least destroy the building they were in? lorewise? If that failed to destroy even that much, that doesn't even count as a feat.

#132 Posted by RogueShadow (11559 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:

The Song of Tiber Septim

From the Odes:

"He was born in Atmora as Talos, 'Stormcrown' in the language of the ancient Ehlnofey, and it was from that shore he sailed. He spent his youth in Skyrim among the Nords. There he learned much from the Tongues and their chieftains and their ways of war. At twenty he led the invasion of Old Hrol'dan, taking it back from the Witchmen of High Rock and their kinsmen.

"Soon the Greybeards made known that they were restless. Already the storms had begun from their murmurs. The Greybeards were going to Speak. The surrounding villages were abandoned as the people fled the coming blast.

"The villagers warned Talos to turn back, for he was marching to the mountain where the Greybeards dwelt.

"Inside he went, and on seeing him they removed their gags. When they spoke his name the World shook.

"The Tongues of Skyrim told the son of Atmora that he had come to rule Tamriel and that he must travel south to do so.

"And it is true that Talos did come to Cyrodiil shortly after the Battle of Old Hrol'dan.

"And it is true that a great storm preceded his arrival."

Voices that shook the world, merely just made Dovahkiin just stumble.

@reikai said:

Ancient Tongues: Team of 3. Stated stronger than Graybeards. Killed dragons and challenged Alduin. They failed.

Miraak: Singular figure. Stronger than Tongues. Killed and controlled Dragons. Bested by Vahlok and company of dragons, forced to retreat to Apocrypha, built power over thousands of years.

Alduin: The World Eater. Son of Akatosh. More powerful than all of the above. Openly defeated the Tongues. His lackeys drove Miraak into hiding.

Last Dragonborn: Displayed and stated more powerful than world*-shaking Graybeards and dragon-murdering Tongues. Defeated and killed both Miraak and Alduin in single combat.

I've not followed this debate, but I can say that as a writer, the underlined part sounds an awful lot like hyperbole.

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#133 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@rogueshadow: If it was, I don't see why they would ignore that when they pointed out...

"It is certain that the tale of Talos' conquest of the Cyrodiil through use of his voice is not literally true -- that kind of thu'um is now forbidden. The is all obviously a poetic reference, crafted to satisfy the popular human lust for blood and magic. This young myth is perhaps inspired by Talos' reputation for shrewd diplomacy, attested by even his greatest critics, which permitted him to scheme and bargain his way into the capital city - which he lacked the armies or funds to conquer by dint of force."

Just beneath the passage.

#134 Posted by ShadoVvlite (1205 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: Sorry if I'm late.

So what comes first> canon? GT came before BoG.

Is this Dragonball? Guessing so. GT is noncanon, while Battle of gods is canon.

#135 Edited by RogueShadow (11559 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4 said:

@rogueshadow: If it was, I don't see why they would ignore that when they pointed out...

"It is certain that the tale of Talos' conquest of the Cyrodiil through use of his voice is not literally true -- that kind of thu'um is now forbidden. The is all obviously a poetic reference, crafted to satisfy the popular human lust for blood and magic. This young myth is perhaps inspired by Talos' reputation for shrewd diplomacy, attested by even his greatest critics, which permitted him to scheme and bargain his way into the capital city - which he lacked the armies or funds to conquer by dint of force."

Just beneath the passage.

So that kind of thu'um is now forbidden, implying that kind of thu'um is doable, fair enough, it's still a bit tenuous for me, but fair enough.

Online
#136 Edited by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio
#137 Posted by Sinisterspectre (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Dovakiin!

#138 Edited by ShadoVvlite (1205 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: What I'm trying to say is that the original piece is always canon. You say GT before BoG, but GT is not the first to be made, the first is actually just Dragon ball, which is canon and is what we start with. Then we gather feats all the way through the "canon" series as chapters or episodes go by. GT is noncanon, as it's not part of the original, so it's not valid and doesn't take part with the canon feats, "unless said otherwise".

#139 Posted by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio
#140 Edited by MetalJimmor (1531 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4:

In lore the actual combat uses of the Voice have been described to break down gates and walls, as well as knocking people over. The Greybeards "Shaking the World" is the only instance of continental scale usage, and that might not be applicable to a combat scenario. Especially given they all unleashed their Thu'um on High Hrothgar, and High Hrothgar canonically was not destroyed. Nor was it destroyed when Paarthurnax, Alduin, and the Dragonborn were battling at it's peak.

Canonically when Alduin unleashed his meteor shower thu'um he only managed to destroy some buildings and raze Helgen. He didn't even one shot it. These are moments in the story, and thus are lore, not gameplay mechanics.

You need to find a feat of someone, anyone, using the Thu'um to cause continental scale destruction, not just a small tremor that may be more of a magical effect than a display of power. The only feat like that is Miraak's battle against the Jailer, and that is an old legend that may or may not be entirely accurate.

#141 Posted by reikai (4536 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: I believe you missed the fact that it wasn't an attack. All they did was whisper a single word. Nvm the mystical nature of the mountain itself, with Paarthurnax napping on top of it, where the rift in time is located from when Feldir banished Alduin using an Elder Scroll.

#142 Posted by MetalJimmor (1531 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

So you believe that mountain is more durable than a normal mountain? You're going to have to back that up with some kind of feat.

#143 Edited by reikai (4536 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor: Considering that it's where the Tongues fought Alduin and his Dragons, and that Paarthurnax states it was from that point that the gods formed their world, and at the top of which there is snow that cannot be melted, and the fact that no matter what shouts were used or when the Graybeards spoke that it remained perfectly intact.

The whole place is quite damn mystical. Kinda why all this crap happens there.

#144 Edited by cooljammy18 (990 posts) - - Show Bio

@metaljimmor said:

@redmonkeyssj4:

In lore the actual combat uses of the Voice have been described to break down gates and walls, as well as knocking people over. The Greybeards "Shaking the World" is the only instance of continental scale usage, and that might not be applicable to a combat scenario. Especially given they all unleashed their Thu'um on High Hrothgar, and High Hrothgar canonically was not destroyed. Nor was it destroyed when Paarthurnax, Alduin, and the Dragonborn were battling at it's peak.

Canonically when Alduin unleashed his meteor shower thu'um he only managed to destroy some buildings and raze Helgen. He didn't even one shot it. These are moments in the story, and thus are lore, not gameplay mechanics.

You need to find a feat of someone, anyone, using the Thu'um to cause continental scale destruction, not just a small tremor that may be more of a magical effect than a display of power. The only feat like that is Miraak's battle against the Jailer, and that is an old legend that may or may not be entirely accurate.

It was said in lore that Wulfharth, i.e one of the first Ysmir incarnations, shouted an entire village into the ocean, which was why he had to restraint himself from yelling in debates. This was before he got his ass kicked by Nerevar and the Chimer/Dwemer forces of course lol, which preceded the formation of the Greybeards in the first place by Jurgen Windcaller, another powerful master of the Thu'um, who also got his ass kicked from the combined forces of Morrowind. The ancient Thu'um users were very powerful, but all of this continent and even planet buster talk is ehhh lol.

#145 Edited by thelocust619 (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4: so....I'm really having trouble seeing your point so I'll try n simplify.

You are stating that because a book exists somewhere in all of Tamriel, and in this book is a statement that could have been written by any old storyteller....about a greybeard shaking the world and destroying absolutely nothing...and that this is indisputable proof the Dov is a mountain buster? Cuz every single legend you ever heard is obviously truth n thus not a legend at all, right?

I think you're wanking the dov. Must we accept that you are incapable of understanding how a statement in a book is not proof above THE CHARACTER YOU ARE ACTUALLY CONTROLLING SINCE THE MOMENT HE GOT HIS POWERS?

Btw, a "mountain buster", since you clearly don't know, is a character or thing that can one-shot and COMPLETELY AND ENTIRELY DESTROY a mountain. A guy who shakes a mountain is not a "buster" of anything. A guy who two-shots a mountain to dust is STILL too weak to be a mountain buster. Now, guess what a country/continent buster has to do...You don't even understand the stipulations of the claims you're making.

Lore or not, a statement is only a statement until backed by something. A book saying the Dov COULD mountain bust is proof of....oh yea! Nothing. At all.

You find books full of nonsense all the time in Sky rim. To treat this one as gospel without anything else to support it is just silly. N if it did happen, well you have access to the whole area, surely someone would see this mountain-sized crater. But we don't.

I'm having an extreme amount of difficulty trying to follow this broken logic. It just looks like a bunch of thoughtless fapping to me...

#146 Edited by Redmonkeyssj4 (877 posts) - - Show Bio

@thelocust619 said:

@redmonkeyssj4: so....I'm really having trouble seeing your point so I'll try n simplify.

You are stating that because a book exists somewhere in all of Tamriel, and in this book is a statement that could have been written by any old storyteller....about a greybeard shaking the world and destroying absolutely nothing...and that this is indisputable proof the Dov is a mountain buster? Cuz every single legend you ever heard is obviously truth n thus not a legend at all, right?

I think you're wanking the dov. Must we accept that you are incapable of understanding how a statement in a book is not proof above THE CHARACTER YOU ARE ACTUALLY CONTROLLING SINCE THE MOMENT HE GOT HIS POWERS?

Btw, a "mountain buster", since you clearly don't know, is a character or thing that can one-shot and COMPLETELY AND ENTIRELY DESTROY a mountain. A guy who shakes a mountain is not a "buster" of anything. A guy who two-shots a mountain to dust is STILL too weak to be a mountain buster. Now, guess what a country/continent buster has to do...You don't even understand the stipulations of the claims you're making.

Lore or not, a statement is only a statement until backed by something. A book saying the Dov COULD mountain bust is proof of....oh yea! Nothing. At all.

You find books full of nonsense all the time in Sky rim. To treat this one as gospel without anything else to support it is just silly. N if it did happen, well you have access to the whole area, surely someone would see this mountain-sized crater. But we don't.

I'm having an extreme amount of difficulty trying to follow this broken logic. It just looks like a bunch of thoughtless fapping to me...

Lol, you're actually saying what the books are saying is false. As if you apparently spent some time in Tamriel, because that's what you're talking like, as if you were there to witness these events and denounce them. How do you know it was an old story teller? Maybe it was someone who spent some time around Tiber Septim? You have no clue who wrote it, that is extreme speculation at it's best right there my friend. Reikai just explained why the mountain at which all these great happenings took place is so durable. Please, stop using the game as a reference. The lore and what's written is superior to what "YOU" the "PLAYER" does. Other than the main plot which is clearly know to everyone and even stated in the lore. How about you visit a Starkiller vs thread and try arguing that Game feats> Written Feats, that would be a sight.

#147 Posted by MetalJimmor (1531 posts) - - Show Bio

@redmonkeyssj4:

The books ingame are written as if they are from someone who lives in the world and thus are capable of being hyperbole or inaccurate by design. The books from the Star Wars EU are written by real people as events that occurred in the story. These things are inherently different.

Also, Reikai didn't provide any proof that the mountain is super durable, only that it's magic. Part of his reasoning for saying it was more durable was because the shoutting happened on it didn't break it, which just circles back to my first point about how the shouting wasn't able to destroy a mountain.

Alduin didn't destroy Helgen with his most powerful shout. The dragon that was battled near Whiterun didn't do more than partially destroy a lone tower. Events in the story don't add up if you believe the Voice can destroy an entire continent.

#148 Posted by Xfactor (84 posts) - - Show Bio

DBs got this