• 136 results
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
#1 Edited by Penderor (2788 posts) - - Show Bio

Can Dragonborn take him down? Or he will end in ashes? Battle takes place in Erebor.

Dragonborn has this armor (see below) but his sword can kill Smaug and his shield is works as fire protection. He also has acces to all magic powers except summoning spells (He can use one spell every 5 seconds) and these shouts : Elemental Fury, Become Ethereal ( lasts 1 second), Frost and Fire breath, Slow time ( lasts 1,5 second), Whirlwind sprint and Unrelenting Force.

He can use one shout only every 10 seconds.

#2 Edited by Aeon-Rising (458 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a absolute massacre. Giving him access to all of his shouts basically stomps any dragon. There is also nothing stopping him from enslaving Smaug with the new shouts in the Dragonborn DLC.

You defeat a (God) dragon during the main campaign. Smaug stands no chance. You could even summon a undead dragon yourself to weaken him if you felt like a overkill victory.

#3 Edited by DarthAznable (7996 posts) - - Show Bio

You basically made this so Dovahkiin wins.

#4 Edited by Aeon-Rising (458 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dragonborn only needs his sword and shield (or magic) to fight Smaug evenly. The collective shouts in the game basically give him every super power imaginable including ones that cancel out Dragons completely.

#5 Edited by scorpion2501 (6529 posts) - - Show Bio

Dragon born is really overhyperboled... He can't just bust mountains with his shouts(Like some people like telling me).

But in this case he can just soul tear Smaug.

#6 Posted by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

It's already been done. Dovahkiin wins.

#7 Posted by DarthAznable (7996 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501: Whoever told you that is a moron. lol He has never shown power on that level. Can't even building bust.

#8 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

Going with Dovahkiin. Way too much versatility.

Giving him access to all of his shouts basically stomps any dragon.

lol. Not even in the very wildest of his dreams.

#9 Posted by scorpion2501 (6529 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501: Whoever told you that is a moron. lol He has never shown power on that level. Can't even building bust.

The guys biggest argument was "He killed the world eater. So if he kills someone who can destroy planets he must be really strong... Let's say about mountain buster"

#10 Posted by DarthAznable (7996 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501: With that logic Batman is a mountain buster too.

#11 Edited by scorpion2501 (6529 posts) - - Show Bio
#12 Posted by colliderz (2554 posts) - - Show Bio

Dovahkiin stomps

#13 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthaznable said:

@scorpion2501: Whoever told you that is a moron. lol He has never shown power on that level. Can't even building bust.

The guys biggest argument was "He killed the world eater. So if he kills someone who can destroy planets he must be really strong... Let's say about mountain buster"

well, considering world eater fails to fully destroy small houses.. not much of an argument.

#14 Edited by scorpion2501 (6529 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Posted by Penderor (2788 posts) - - Show Bio

Edited.

#16 Posted by Killerwasp (5990 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a absolute massacre. Giving him access to all of his shouts basically stomps any dragon. There is also nothing stopping him from enslaving Smaug with the new shouts in the Dragonborn DLC.

You defeat a (God) dragon during the main campaign. Smaug stands no chance. You could even summon a undead dragon yourself to weaken him if you felt like a overkill victory.

LOLOLOL Agreed 100% XD

#17 Edited by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501 @darthaznable: We go by progression of ability and how the figures are placed. We have actual lore that states the Graybeards whispering the name "Talos" caused all of Tamriel (the continent) to shake.

We also have testimony from Parthurnaax who tells the Dovahkiin that there had been no greater masters than the Ancient Tongues whom he trained himself during the Dragon War. Those being Felldir, Hakon and Gormlaith. Also stating that even combined they were no match for Alduin in open battle. Yet as the Storyline tells us and Parthurnaax witnesses that the Dovahkiin, by himself, does beat Alduin in open conflict and forces him to retreat to Sovngarde. Which indicates that his Voice and abilities greatly surpass those of whom Par trained personally.

Through the Dragonborn DLC we then learn of Miraak, who was the First Dragonborn and that the Tongues had sought to ally with him to defeat Alduin, only to be turned down. We know from both story and experience that Miraak could take control over Dragons and has killed a number of them to increase his powers, making Miraak more powerful than the Tongues. Yet as we also know that the Last Dragonborn (the player) is still more powerful than Miraak, despite Miraak having more than 4000yrs of prep to build up his power within Hermaeus Mora's realm of Apocrypha.

What is also stated and noted in the story is that the Dragonborn's power grows with every dragon soul consumed, and that s/he gains the knowledge of each dragon slain. He also gains all the dragon souls and power Miraak possessed when he died, since the Dovahkiin took his soul as well. Given the number of necesssary dragonsouls needed for unlocking Shouts and those possessed by Miraak himself, making his legit total over 100 Dragon Souls.

Even if we looked at it like basic math, the Dovahkiin would have the power and knowledge of a hundred dragons at least. He was already on a higher level than the Graybeards long before acquiring so many souls.

This is how I look at it.

Graybeards: Team of 4. Whispered and shook a continent.

Ancient Tongues: Team of 3. Stated stronger than Graybeards. Killed dragons and challenged Alduin. They failed.

Miraak: Singular figure. Stronger than Tongues. Killed and controlled Dragons. Bested by Vahlok and company of dragons, forced to retreat to Apocrypha, built power over thousands of years.

Alduin: The World Eater. Son of Akatosh. More powerful than all of the above. Openly defeated the Tongues. His lackeys drove Miraak into hiding.

Last Dragonborn: Displayed and stated more powerful than continent-shaking Graybeards and dragon-murdering Tongues. Defeated and killed both Miraak and Alduin in single combat.

#18 Edited by Aeon-Rising (458 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@scorpion2501 @darthaznable: We go by progression of ability and how the figures are placed. We have actual lore that states the Graybeards whispering the name "Talos" caused all of Tamriel (the continent) to shake.

We also have testimony from Parthurnaax who tells the Dovahkiin that there had been no greater masters than the Ancient Tongues whom he trained himself during the Dragon War. Those being Felldir, Hakon and Gormlaith. Also stating that even combined they were no match for Alduin in open battle. Yet as the Storyline tells us and Parthurnaax witnesses that the Dovahkiin, by himself, does beat Alduin in open conflict and forces him to retreat to Sovngarde. Which indicates that his Voice and abilities greatly surpass those of whom Par trained personally.

Through the Dragonborn DLC we then learn of Miraak, who was the First Dragonborn and that the Tongues had sought to ally with him to defeat Alduin, only to be turned down. We know from both story and experience that Miraak could take control over Dragons and has killed a number of them to increase his powers, making Miraak more powerful than the Tongues. Yet as we also know that the Last Dragonborn (the player) is still more powerful than Miraak, despite Miraak having more than 4000yrs of prep to build up his power within Hermaeus Mora's realm of Apocrypha.

What is also stated and noted in the story is that the Dragonborn's power grows with every dragon soul consumed, and that s/he gains the knowledge of each dragon slain. He also gains all the dragon souls and power Miraak possessed when he died, since the Dovahkiin took his soul as well. Given the number of necesssary dragonsouls needed for unlocking Shouts and those possessed by Miraak himself, making his legit total over 100 Dragon Souls.

Even if we looked at it like basic math, the Dovahkiin would have the power and knowledge of a hundred dragons at least. He was already on a higher level than the Graybeards long before acquiring so many souls.

This is how I look at it.

Graybeards: Team of 4. Whispered and shook a continent.

Ancient Tongues: Team of 3. Stated stronger than Graybeards. Killed dragons and challenged Alduin. They failed.

Miraak: Singular figure. Stronger than Tongues. Killed and controlled Dragons. Bested by Vahlok and company of dragons, forced to retreat to Apocrypha, built power over thousands of years.

Alduin: The World Eater. Son of Akatosh. More powerful than all of the above. Openly defeated the Tongues. His lackeys drove Miraak into hiding.

Last Dragonborn: Displayed and stated more powerful than continent-shaking Graybeards and dragon-murdering Tongues. Defeated and killed both Miraak and Alduin in single combat.

I think it's safe to say the Dragonborn is a god slayer level combatant if his feats include all quests in the game. Stronger then all previous elder scrolls protagonists maybe?

#19 Posted by DarthAznable (7996 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: Still doesn't have the feats to support it.

#20 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

...funny thing: last dragonborn: possibly killed by a bunch of cave bears.

#21 Posted by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

@darthaznable: It's supported by Math. And Lore. As opposed to Smaug whose only notable feat is...killing a bunch of dwarves, then getting outwitted by an invisible hobbit.

@princearagorn1: Game mechanics.

#22 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: define game mechanics. Because it's not just bears lol, there's a boatload of stuff, less than block level, that the game creators made to be a challenge to dragonborn.

#23 Posted by AweSam (7376 posts) - - Show Bio

I did kill a demigod dragon. Sure, Smaug wiped out a city, but my pet dragon does that every sunday and I wipe the floor with dragons that are five times as strong.

Just so everyone knows, I'm talking about my Skyrim character.

#24 Posted by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: They're not really a challenge. Not to anyone of note. Random hunters kill bears and sabrecats all the time. I remember some of the fun stuff I've done. Shot a leaping sabrecat with a crossbow as it was charging and caused it to flip through the air, dead, for like 10-15m. It was hilarious.

Also there is a quest for Kyne's blessing that involves hunting animal spirits. Starting with the lowest like Skeevers and Mudcrabs, all the way up to Mammoths and Sabrecats, even a Troll. The mudcrab spirit is actually pretty damn big.

#25 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: Yes, all of that is amazing. But not a single one of them is even city block level. And that's the level the game creators built for dovahkiin.

#26 Posted by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: Hey when you try an say critters can get the better of the Dovahkiin and we got Story saying otherwise by quite a bit, we gotta go with Story. And still got Shouts that affect miles. And still can't deny the abilities of his godly tools either.

Also his durability/resistance is absurd. Continent-quaking Graybeards speaking openly to Dragonborn didn't even hurt'im. We still have Vahlok and Miraak whose fight devastated the land for miles and tore off a chunk from Skyrim to form Solstheim, and Dovahkiin beats both of them. So he is either dishing out more than they can, or Dovahkiin's defenses/durability are such that island-wreckers, army obliteraters and the World Eater itself can't do enough harm to even irritate the Dragonborn's chest hairs.

The only thing we can really go on is the Lore and Story. Just encountering a Daedric Prince is no mean feat. Angering one of them can mean vomiting rainbows and being turned into a 2m long millipede with the head of a troll and the legs of a spider. And that's assuming it's not Molag Bal, who will literally violate you, before, after and during your brutal murder. Because he can.

#27 Posted by Frocharocha (2368 posts) - - Show Bio

Game Dovahkiin? probably looses.

LORE Dovahkiin? Stomps really hard. Hes easily +Melkor tier in Lore. Reikai basically awnsered this for us.

#28 Edited by Pope052 (3394 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

Nice explanation though I do have one question, you've said that Alduin is superior to all of the above and that included Miraak but is that really true? Miraak had stated that he could have slain Alduin himself only to have chosen to go by a different path, and he wasn't overly impressed by the fact that the Last Dragonborn had beaten the World Eater either based on his stance by saying "well done". I'm not disagreeing with your premise and while Miraak's statement is only a statement, it's just something that strikes my interest.

#29 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

1. Critters don't get the better of DB on their own. He's not an ordinary soldier. But put them in a group, and they're more than he can handle at a time. That are his limits according to the game creators.

The amount of stuff that puts him on the level you're describing is tiny, even negligible, compared to the amount of stuff that puts him where he actually is. Considering it's almost everything we ever see/do in game, or in the trailers.

2. The word that didn't even break a single wall of the building. Not getting hurt by that isn't not even a feat. More so, swaying on his feat during that is a (really) bad durability feat. According to the plot, you can actually shout in the city and all it does is 'make people nervous'. Doesn't cause major property damage or anything, according to the guard. (They don't have to show it. But the guard's dialogue is pretty clear.)

3. What does the dragonborn do? Deal with.. bandits, crabs, bears, corpses, and creatures that are absolutely worthless for a Block+ opponent. That's where the game creators place him.

4. Even the trailers. At least they are not limited by game mechanics. What does he do? Kill some.. peak human level stuff.

Do show me dragonborn ever actually one shotting a city block. Not vague descriptions. A trailer, a cutscene, a screen shot.. putting him at block level.

#30 Edited by oOSupermanThatHoeOo (647 posts) - - Show Bio

Dovahkiin STOMPS

One shotted Alduin like he was going out of style

#31 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

Game Dovahkiin? probably looses.

LORE Dovahkiin? Stomps really hard.

can you show me one canon statement distinguishing 'game dovahkiin', and 'lore dovahkiin'?

#32 Posted by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

@pope052: That's really Miraak trying not to sound like a complete puss. At the time he still was losing in a fight against Vahlok, who was perhaps the strongest Dragonpriest alongside Miraak. Miraak was forced to retreat into his temple and he was too weak to fight back when several dragons arrived to scorch the place. Miraak was on the verge of death when Hermaeus pulled him into Apocrypha.

The fact was Miraak never even tried to fight Alduin. We look at Talos, the man was a legendary warrior and commander, and may have even become a God after dying. But during his life we can't say he could've taken Alduin, much less any of his lieutenants because, despite being proclaimed Dragonborn, he'd never actually fought a dragon.

Could Tiber Septim have killed a dragon? Probably, but there's nothing in the lore saying he did, and as we know a Dragonborn's power increases with the number of dragon souls consumed. Miraak had 10 plus whatever he cheated the Dovahkiin out of. Dovahkiin ends up with more than 100. And Alduin is unique among dragons and has the strongest Thu'um. Parth only turned against him because Kynareth told him to. Odahviing didn't like Alduin, but didn't have the power to challenge him. None did.

The Tongues wanted to work in unison with Miraak to defeat Alduin, but because he refused, we never see how well he might've fought against the World-Eater. Miraak has displayed gross amounts of overconfidence in every meeting. Hermaeus tells him he's dragonborn and suddenly Miraak believes he's gonna rule the world and that nothing can stop him. He still gets beaten by a colleague as opposed to the king of dragons. Which tells you he wasn't up to par with challenging Alduin.

Miraak was just one of those guys who was like "I came first so I'm better than everyone else." May also have to do with the ego-boosting he was giving himself by TP'ing everyone on Solstheim and the confidence-boosting from being backed by a Daedric Prince. Of course that ended when he decided he was gonna skip out on his deal with Herma-Mora.

Again, we are talking about a guy who had at least 4000yrs of prep after his initial defeat and spent that time in a realm of Infinite Knowledge and Secrets. So Miraak could've had access to ridiculously powerful magics and spells going as far back as the Mythic Era and taken from the best mages Tamriel's ever known. But we never see this displayed since the fight ended up being about whose Thu'um was greatest, and in the end Miraak fell short once again. And once again he tried to puss out and run away, only to get finished off by Hermaeus Mora for being such a wimp.

Ultimately, Miraak was all bark and no bite. He talked the talk, then got his knees busted.

@princearagorn1:

1. No, that's mechanics. Not a limit by creators. It's just a gaming engine. Frankly I could spawn 100 Draugr Deathlords and knock them all on their backsides with one Fus Ro Dah before they ever get within striking distance.

2. Again, mechanics limited by the game engine. Lore already has lesser Voice Masters destroying castle walls and barricades with ease. And references those in-game. It's also called Control. Like how every class 100+ brick in Marvel doesn't destroy New York an the entire East Coast with the first punch thrown.

3. And Giants, Mammoths, Dragons of various types, legions of undead, vampires, demons, elemental spirits, sorcerers, super-natural beings and deranged gods. Kinda leaving some things out of there ain't ya?

4. Trailer was actually done using the game engine. Bethesda had a budget cut. Also why they never finished the remaining 2 Skyrim DLC's. And he still kills a dragon in the trailer, and gets hit with firebreath and gets away unscathed.

Once again, as you always do, you're missing the point which is the Story. The game is nothing more than a series of Acts and Chapters to bring you from one point in the story to the next. What we know is what that story tells you. And the stories tell you a great deal. They tell you that the Nords turned against the dragons, and they were completely useless, dying by the thousands against beings they couldn't even hurt until Parthurnaax taught them the Thu'um and gave them the power to fight back with.

Nothing worked until then unless it was specifically tailored against Dragons. Much like the ancient Akaviri who developed techniques and weapons to kill dragons. They even created their own Blessing that would empower them against the dragons. Which you hear from Esbern at Skyhaven Temple. And that only started coming about after Alduin was already banished using an Elder Scroll.

#33 Posted by scorpion2501 (6529 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: Wow, you actually supported a good argument. It still relies on heavily ABC logic, but still. It's a lot better than the other guy did.

I'll say it again though, it's not because you beat someone who is a potential mountain buster, that you are equal or stronger than mountain busting. A lot of factors count.

#34 Posted by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

@scorpion2501: One of the big things people tend to miss is that TES isn't a Comic or Cartoon. It's more like a Visual Novel with much of the underlying context unwritten. Kinda like trying to compare the Vampire Hunter D manga to the original novels. The Manga does show a fair bit of what happens in the novels, but without all the context explaining what's going on.

With TES you have to rely almost entirely on the lore and how the story is being told. One of the issues about all the games is that all it does is tell the story through interaction, there are no novels about the game events themselves because that effectively ruins the Players personal input in how they play and what they play as.

People loved KotoR and Jedi Academy because you could pick and choose what and how you were going to play. But when the company writes a book and solidifies the appearance/gender of the main character, it becomes less fun an interesting. Ultimately they do need to say who/what it is, but TES still has that little loophole in that the Elder Scrolls is a multiverse and that the Scrolls themselves tell of all infinite alternate timelines, which're all true, making every players personal choice of character a separate yet legitimate canon for their own experience.

Beyond there there are so few TES novels that it leaves many questions unanswered. There are plenty of game guides for each game, but no actual story books. There are only two TES novels in print, released in 2009 and 2011 respectively; "The Infernal City" and "Lord of Souls", both dealing with events Post-Oblivion, and quite some time before Skyrim. So unfortunately no sign of a Dragonborn in the books, but yet still nice displays of magic all the same with some Daedric Princes stopping by.

#35 Edited by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai:

1. No, that's mechanics. Not a limit by creators. It's just a gaming engine. Frankly I could spawn 100 Draugr Deathlords and knock them all on their backsides with one Fus Ro Dah before they ever get within striking distance.

Actually, it's not the game engine, that's where creators of series put him. Knocking Draugr deathlords back once doesn't mean a thing when they just get back up and slaughter you.

2. Again, mechanics limited by the game engine. Lore already has lesser Voice Masters destroying castle walls and barricades with ease. And references those in-game. It's also called Control. Like how every class 100+ brick in Marvel doesn't destroy New York an the entire East Coast with the first punch thrown.

Not really. The dialogue itself is not limited to game. I don't really remember anyone saying anything about control of that kind, at least not on words of power. That's why graybeards live so high up, remember? Also, we can actually show 100+ bricks of marvel causing massive destruction on panel. So the example isn't really accurate.

Plus, alduin etc. have no reason to hold back when they are attacking. We still had charred corpses and houses standing in helgen.

3. And Giants, Mammoths, Dragons of various types, legions of undead, vampires, demons, elemental spirits, sorcerers, super-natural beings and deranged gods. Kinda leaving some things out of there ain't ya?

None of which have, or will ever be, able to one shot a city block. Or be a threat to someone who can. So no, didn't leave out anything relevant to the point.

4. Trailer was actually done using the game engine. Bethesda had a budget cut. Also why they never finished the remaining 2 Skyrim DLC's. And he still kills a dragon in the trailer, and gets hit with firebreath and gets away unscathed.

...really? They failed to make a half-minute cut scene showing a simple block sized blast? That's not even an argument.

And the firebreath has done literally nothing amazing to count it as a major durability feat. At least not remotely close to the level you're putting him.

Once again, as you always do, you're missing the point which is the Story. The game is nothing more than a series of Acts and Chapters to bring you from one point in the story to the next. What we know is what that story tells you. And the stories tell you a great deal. They tell you that the Nords turned against the dragons, and they were completely useless, dying by the thousands against beings they couldn't even hurt until Parthurnaax taught them the Thu'um and gave them the power to fight back with.

Of course they were useless. It's a dragon who can use different magical spells, hardly something for an army of soldiers to slay. Smaug himself has solo'd kingdoms. Doesn't mean he can one shot a city block.

Nothing worked until then unless it was specifically tailored against Dragons. Much like the ancient Akaviri who developed techniques and weapons to kill dragons. They even created their own Blessing that would empower them against the dragons. Which you hear from Esbern at Skyhaven Temple. And that only started coming about after Alduin was already banished using an Elder Scroll.

Cool. Considering no soldier in skyrim was ever shown to one-shot a building, that's not saying much. Dragons have never shown any significant attack an walked away, at least in what was shown.

----------------

The point remains. None of the people you mentioned were actually shown to be able to one shot a mountain. Hell, not even a city block worth of distance. Are you saying that their budget was so incredibly small, they couldn't show a half-minute cutscene of an actual mountain bust? Not even one throughout all the games and available material? That is completely unreasonable...

#36 Posted by PantyPolice (412 posts) - - Show Bio

What you all need to realize is that Smaug has 1000000x the mobility and truthfully size that the dragons in skyrim had.

Yes Alduin had a lot of lore hype behind him "eating" the planet or whatever. Alduin was a little pussy though.

He's not even the strongest dragon in that stiff game. There is a dragon deidric prince.

Anyway Smaug takes this pretty easily if the control dragon thing doesn't work on him. Dragonborn has magic and shouts, but the rest of his combat ability is pretty damned vanilla, even for humans. Also I don't see the spells doing shit. A dragon summon would be run over like trash by something the size of Smaug, Smaug also has HUGE mobility.

Not to mention Smaug was able to locate the vicinity of Bilbo while he wore the ring based on his other senses like hearing his breathing (I think that was it) REalize that Bilbo's genetics make him the perfect stealth character, so Smaug will easily be able to know exactly where the dragonborn is.

Kratos stomps. Dragonborn gets stomped.

Smaug's scales completely disregard all attacks that aren't based on hax that dragonborn uses anyway, even the highest level equipment.

#37 Posted by Penderor (2788 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1:You can look at it like this. If they didn't have control, this is how things would've ended up.

Actually, it's not the game engine, that's where creators of series put him. Knocking Draugr deathlords back once doesn't mean a thing when they just get back up and slaughter you.

Not when they're all vaporized by the shout. Again, mechanics. ESO already openly shows cinematics that have lightning spells vaping people and things to ashes instantly.

Not really. The dialogue itself is not limited to game. I don't really remember anyone saying anything about control of that kind, at least not on words of power. That's why graybeards live so high up, remember? Also, we can actually show 100+ bricks of marvel causing massive destruction on panel. So the example isn't really accurate.

No they live on High Hrothgar because it's a holy place and where it was said the gods first blessed the world with life. No different than monks living in mountain sanctuaries in Tibet. They have no interest in the rest of the world. Three of the four Graybeards just don't speak because their voices are too strong and anything they say could kill anyone not trained in the Way of the Voice.

Plus, alduin etc. have no reason to hold back when they are attacking. We still had charred corpses and houses standing in helgen.

Again, Mechanics. And setup for other quests and bandit hives. Also, that was Alduin in a weakened state after tumbling through time for thousands of years. And there were still mages and magic users hitting him with spells that didn't do a damn thing to him.

...really? They failed to make a half-minute cut scene showing a simple block sized blast? That's not even an argument.

5min of Animation in an Anime is roughly twenty-thousand dollars to produce. CGI costs more for a Company to produce. The CGI trailers for ESO cost them roughly a million dollars to do. Ontop of the 200+mil in development costs. Skyrim cost them over 85million and they still suffered budget costs. So 30sec of animation not necessary to the gameplay was not in the budget.

The console versions didn't exactly have quick load times and the PS3 sales suffered because of that bug with the PSN, the losses of which combined with lessening sales overall are what killed any further development after Dragonborn, despite the fact they still had plans for 2 more DLC's.

You're saying it's something they should've had, when clearly it's not even something they could even consider. I mean hell they didn't show Vivec stopping a damn moon being thrown at him by Sheogorath and yet he still know he did it.

Of course they were useless. It's a dragon who can use different magical spells, hardly something for an army of soldiers to slay. Smaug himself has solo'd kingdoms. Doesn't mean he can one shot a city block.

Soldiers who still had people who could use magic backing them and it still amounted to nothing until Paarthurnax got involved. And dragon scales were still harder than Ebony which is the hardest substance known.

Honestly your entire line of thinking is pure garbage. It's like saying a Lightsaber can't cut a droid in one hit because you're not one-shotting it in SWTOR.

Cool. Considering no soldier in skyrim was ever shown to one-shot a building, that's not saying much. Dragons have never shown any significant attack an walked away, at least in what was shown.

And yet we're fully aware they can do far worse given the incentive. Like destroying peoples souls, causing mass floods, changing the weather at their whim and even creating tornadoes . Really it's like saying everything in Skyrim is impotent because you can't effing kill Braith in Whiterun

Not even one throughout all the games and available material? That is completely unreasonable...

I can rain meteors and flaming death balls in WoW and kill giant monsters and yet not blow up any of the buildings or walls in a city, or even set ablaze that goddamn pumpkin patch outside Stormwind. And that was Vanilla WoW, which was a 40million budget back in 2004. Couldn't even cut down or break trees in WC3 without specific units to do that.

Does that mean figures in the lore are incapable of it? F*** no. Cripes say Jaesa Proudmoore effing teleported hundreds of Thunderlizards across miles, Thrall has created earthquakes and tidal waves, Aegwynn and other sorcs have ripped demons and death knights in half with freaking hand gestures. So despite my character, limited by the Game Engine, not destroying everything around me in the Game World, doesn't mean it's not ridiculously easy for it to happen within the Lore and Story.

Effing hell man we have a flying city in TES that kills people just by passing overhead them.

In all honesty people are in agreement that Bethesda needs to freaking nut up and write some damn books to explain the game story and what happens. Until then we have Machinima and modders who can stick to the story and actually make the game more challenging and enjoyable. Like with this baby here.

#39 Posted by Egemensson (261 posts) - - Show Bio

dovahkiin can kill a dragon called "world-eater" but gets his ass kicked by 3 stupid falmers..

if it's based on feats, smaug stomps as hell..

#40 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: Well, they wouldn't have ended. He would actually get enemies worth noticing:

Not when they're all vaporized by the shout. Again, mechanics. ESO already openly shows cinematics that have lightning spells vaping people and things to ashes instantly.

And -that- I'm ready to accept. Described, backed up, and plausible.

Honestly your entire line of thinking is pure garbage. It's like saying a Lightsaber can't cut a droid in one hit because you're not one-shotting it in SWTOR.

So basically, all the replies you gave me are based on what you think I said. Sadly, you're mistaken.

I can show you lightsabre cutting through droids over fifty times in TCW. It's also the level it's meant to perform.

On the other hand, you cannot show me a single instance of dragonborn one shotting a city block. The trailers, and everything, put his opponents at less than city block level. And you're putting him at.. mountain-planetary level.

You want pure garbage? That's it right there.

#41 Posted by Easternwind (3891 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai said:

@princearagorn1:You can look at it like this. If they didn't have control, this is how things would've ended up.

Actually, it's not the game engine, that's where creators of series put him. Knocking Draugr deathlords back once doesn't mean a thing when they just get back up and slaughter you.

Not when they're all vaporized by the shout. Again, mechanics. ESO already openly shows cinematics that have lightning spells vaping people and things to ashes instantly.

Not really. The dialogue itself is not limited to game. I don't really remember anyone saying anything about control of that kind, at least not on words of power. That's why graybeards live so high up, remember? Also, we can actually show 100+ bricks of marvel causing massive destruction on panel. So the example isn't really accurate.

No they live on High Hrothgar because it's a holy place and where it was said the gods first blessed the world with life. No different than monks living in mountain sanctuaries in Tibet. They have no interest in the rest of the world. Three of the four Graybeards just don't speak because their voices are too strong and anything they say could kill anyone not trained in the Way of the Voice.

Plus, alduin etc. have no reason to hold back when they are attacking. We still had charred corpses and houses standing in helgen.

Again, Mechanics. And setup for other quests and bandit hives. Also, that was Alduin in a weakened state after tumbling through time for thousands of years. And there were still mages and magic users hitting him with spells that didn't do a damn thing to him.

...really? They failed to make a half-minute cut scene showing a simple block sized blast? That's not even an argument.

5min of Animation in an Anime is roughly twenty-thousand dollars to produce. CGI costs more for a Company to produce. The CGI trailers for ESO cost them roughly a million dollars to do. Ontop of the 200+mil in development costs. Skyrim cost them over 85million and they still suffered budget costs. So 30sec of animation not necessary to the gameplay was not in the budget.

The console versions didn't exactly have quick load times and the PS3 sales suffered because of that bug with the PSN, the losses of which combined with lessening sales overall are what killed any further development after Dragonborn, despite the fact they still had plans for 2 more DLC's.

You're saying it's something they should've had, when clearly it's not even something they could even consider. I mean hell they didn't show Vivec stopping a damn moon being thrown at him by Sheogorath and yet he still know he did it.

Of course they were useless. It's a dragon who can use different magical spells, hardly something for an army of soldiers to slay. Smaug himself has solo'd kingdoms. Doesn't mean he can one shot a city block.

Soldiers who still had people who could use magic backing them and it still amounted to nothing until Paarthurnax got involved. And dragon scales were still harder than Ebony which is the hardest substance known.

Honestly your entire line of thinking is pure garbage. It's like saying a Lightsaber can't cut a droid in one hit because you're not one-shotting it in SWTOR.

Cool. Considering no soldier in skyrim was ever shown to one-shot a building, that's not saying much. Dragons have never shown any significant attack an walked away, at least in what was shown.

And yet we're fully aware they can do far worse given the incentive. Like destroying peoples souls, causing mass floods, changing the weather at their whim and even creating tornadoes . Really it's like saying everything in Skyrim is impotent because you can't effing kill Braith in Whiterun

Not even one throughout all the games and available material? That is completely unreasonable...

I can rain meteors and flaming death balls in WoW and kill giant monsters and yet not blow up any of the buildings or walls in a city, or even set ablaze that goddamn pumpkin patch outside Stormwind. And that was Vanilla WoW, which was a 40million budget back in 2004. Couldn't even cut down or break trees in WC3 without specific units to do that.

Does that mean figures in the lore are incapable of it? F*** no. Cripes say Jaesa Proudmoore effing teleported hundreds of Thunderlizards across miles, Thrall has created earthquakes and tidal waves, Aegwynn and other sorcs have ripped demons and death knights in half with freaking hand gestures. So despite my character, limited by the Game Engine, not destroying everything around me in the Game World, doesn't mean it's not ridiculously easy for it to happen within the Lore and Story.

Effing hell man we have a flying city in TES that kills people just by passing overhead them.

In all honesty people are in agreement that Bethesda needs to freaking nut up and write some damn books to explain the game story and what happens. Until then we have Machinima and modders who can stick to the story and actually make the game more challenging and enjoyable. Like with this baby here.

even if i dont agree 100% with the power level you set you make really good points here

#42 Posted by reikai (4511 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: You can't compare Skyrim to Asura's Wrath. Two completely different game engines and designs. Nvm that AW is essentially an Interactive Movie as opposed to a real game. The majority of the game is literally cinematic scenes. Almost the same thing with Xenosaga. Great story, tons of cutscenes, but the gameplay was crap and boring.

They spent about as much on AW as Blizzard did with Vanilla WoW. And most of that was for the cinematics in AW.

I can show you lightsabre cutting through droids over fifty times in TCW. It's also the level it's meant to perform.

And yet they don't one-shot when under the GM rule. Which is my point. You're taking the game engine as the Limit to what the Dovahkiin, Alduin and Dragons can do, when it's clearly not the case and the lore tells a completely different picture. I mean you get god-killing tools and make deals with Universe-level reality warpers who'd turn Smaug inside out and somehow end up as a Sweet Roll.

The Lore says Alduin will destroy the world. What's the point of arguing that? Lore says the Graybeards shook a continent with a whisper. If you had to put a number on it, to cause that would be a steady tremor of more than 5.3 on the richter scale and covering a landmass as big as Asia, Europe and Australia. Tamriel makes up roughly half the landmass of the world. Akavir covers the other half.

We have figures who can make pocket realms, hide islands in other dimensions, cause the sinking of islands (Yakudan isle, original home of the Reguard), raise armies of undead, incinerate dozens of people and more. And Dragons were still considered top dog until Kyne made Paarthurnax help the mortal races. Because the Voice, words of power, is like Word of God basically.

It's simply how it worked. I mean hell you have a God who teaches you how to call down people from Sovngarde. You literally call immortal, legendary spirits from what is effectively Valhalla, just by saying a few words and projecting your essence.

And ya know taking a quick look, some sources say it takes 2.99gj (gigajoules) to vaporize a human body. Considering that Unrelenting Force can be used to vaporize any enemy, dragons included, and a dragons body is easily 100x the mass of the average person with a body of scales easily several thousand times more durable than a persons, then how much energy do you think would be required to reduce a Dragon's body to ashes?

Because I imagine that would be rather considerable. Because if a Lightning spell alone can vape a person, and we can chuck that $hit around like candy, then mages and even the Dovahkiin is tossing out spells with roughly 3gj of energy behind it without even breaking a sweat.

#43 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@reikai: You missed the point. If he actually was as strong as you mentioned, at least one single character in the game would have city block+ feats. A block+ character has no business fighting trolls, bears, draugr and stuff. He isn't made to be on that level. He's a hero who goes around solving problems regular soldiers could pull off with difficulty, or sometimes what they couldn't.

You're taking the game engine as the Limit to what the Dovahkiin, Alduin and Dragons can do, when it's clearly not the case and the lore tells a completely different picture.

Ah. You still don't get it. What I'm saying is, where do the game creators put him? Does he show anything in the trailers or game that says he could one shot a skyscraper? No he doesn't. You can go through list of all the skyrim trailers, and show me DB doing something at the levels you think he's at. Show me even one person in trailer busting a mountain, ever.

I mean you get god-killing tools and make deals with Universe-level reality warpers who'd turn Smaug inside out and somehow end up as a Sweet Roll.

The 'gods' who fail to destroy houses.

Universe level? lol. I hope that was a typing mistake.

As for the feats you are mentioning, literally everything you said can be replicated by the characters of naruto/bleach/one piece, except dozens, if not hundreds of times better, and with far, far more versatility. Doesn't mean they are planetary (other than the sage, of course)

And ya know taking a quick look, some sources say it takes 2.99gj (gigajoules) to vaporize a human body. Considering that Unrelenting Force can be used to vaporize any enemy, dragons included, and a dragons body is easily 100x the mass of the average person with a body of scales easily several thousand times more durable than a persons, then how much energy do you think would be required to reduce a Dragon's body to ashes?

Because I imagine that would be rather considerable. Because if a Lightning spell alone can vape a person, and we can chuck that $hit around like candy, then mages and even the Dovahkiin is tossing out spells with roughly 3gj of energy behind it without even breaking a sweat.

Two things:

1. When someone vaporizes the other with magic, it doesn't mean it's because of the force. It's because of the magic that's creating the effect.

2. Considering electric spells are weaker than fire damage-wise, the calculation isn't plausible to begin with.

3. Either way. even if dragonborn went on for minutes at that low an output, he doesn't become a city block level character..

#44 Posted by NeonGameWave (8316 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dragonborn was born for the sole purpose of being a dragon slayer, Smaug won`t be an exception to this. Epsecially since he`s steps and levels below Alduin.

#45 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

The Dragonborn was born for the sole purpose of being a dragon slayer, Smaug won`t be an exception to this. Epsecially since he`s steps and levels below Alduin.

that's not even an argument. By that logic, he solos omega shenron.

#46 Edited by I2edShift (70 posts) - - Show Bio

So, a couple things here. First off, the concept artwork for the Dragonborn in Iron/leather armor, steel sword, and a banded Iron shield is a total mismatch for Smaug. So if that's what you're giving him, this better be one ****ing high level Drabonborn with lots of shouts & magic. Otherwise Smaug would laugh at this. So assuming Legendary Daedric/Dragonplate armor & weapons with appropriate enchantments for my argument/post.

Next, game mechanics don't really mean anything here, some things need to be left to the imagination. Skyrim isn't an anime, manga, comic, or movie. Certain things have to be left practical for game productions sake as well as fun for the player. This includes stupid stuff like a fully level-scaled Alduin being weaker than the "Legendary Dragon" from the Dawnguard add-on. It's about the story and interpretation really. Half of Skyrim's story is the one the player makes up themselves as they play & develop there character anyways... You know... Actual role-playing.

Moving on, the Dovahkiin is quite literally the greatest hero in "The Elder Scrolls" universe, ever. Reikai covers this all pretty well up top. The three greatest heroes of the past couldn't kill Alduin, only time-warp him into the future. The Dovahkiin literally solo's him on the top of the mountain. That and the combined knowledge/skill the Dragonborn would have after absorbing 100 or so dragon souls, he's no slouch. A level +81 Dragonborn (there's no level cap in Skyrim anymore) basically amounts to peak-human physicals, master melee brawler/archer/stealther/arch-mage, combined with the Thu'um powers. The Dragonborn at even "middle levels" can also make himself (or herself) weapons & armor that are probably on par (at the very least) or more powerful than anything in Tolkein's universe. To the point where Smaug's greatest blast of fire could very well be pointless. To be clear, I'm not talking about horribly exploiting the game to make god-swords that insta-kill dragons, just standard high-level crafted & enhanced equipment. The items that you craft yourself (at sufficient level) are literally the items of legend for TES, surpassing artifacts made by the Daedric Princes themselves. Oh, and you can also factor in the alpha vampire or werewolf powers, should you choose to do that.

Anyways, Smaug would be the Dovahkiin's biggest challenge outside of Alduin, maybe moreso. But it's still just a REALLY BIG dragon that isn't a quasi-diety. Massive blase of flames? If the Dovahkiin's comes prepared with lots of fire resistance, he can stand right in it & pick his nose. Smaug has no chance of flight due to the "Dragonrend" shout disorienting the shit out of him and grounding him. Assuming high-level character and the proper equipment, Smaug is literally left with engaging in melee with the Dovahkiin, where he'll have to contend with all the spells, shouts, powers, and some seriously powerful magical weaponry. The Dragonborn can protect himself pretty well with the Dragonskin & ward spells, shove away large melee blows with Unrelenting Force, as well as quickly heal his own injuries. That's not counting heavy plate armor which doesn't even slow him/her down.

So really, Smaug's chances are pretty slim. His size is the only thing he has going for him. He might be able to crush the Drabonborn through sheer force, but that's providing he can land the hit between all the tools the Dovahkiin has to protect & heal himself. Any large attacks such as a bite or a tail slam could be blown away with Unrelenting Force. Everything else has to get through "Legendary" quality plate armor, the 'Dragonskin' magical armor spell, and the ward spells. What damage is sustained can be completely healed in seconds from spells alone. Swallowing the Dovahkiin whole is out of the question, he'd cut/blast his way out in short order.

#47 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@i2edshift: That's a clear explanation. To be frank, I'm inclining towards dragonborn winning this. Problem is putting him on a level he cannot ever hope to achieve.

#48 Edited by I2edShift (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: Who, the Dragonborn? The Dragonborn learns & grows at a ridiculous pace. The entirety of Skyrim's content (DLC and all) can be completed in about 3 months of "in-game" days., and that's assuming you role-play it and sleep 8 hours a day and walk/ride everywhere instead of fast travel. That's a hilariously short time to go from a passing stranger to mythical hero of legend. You would easily break into the triple digits (remember, no level cap) by the end of it. I've put 800 hours into the game, so I know.

By that time you'd have become the favored servant of all the Daedric Princes, become the Vampire/Werewolf of legend (or both!), become the leader of the Theives Guild, Companions, and Mages College, slayed about a hundred dragons, thousands of people & creatures, have an absurd amount of wealth and so much more.But really, all the Dovahkiin has to do is "Slow Time" and loose an arrow or two through his heart... And that's not even being creative will spells or other nonsense you can do during those 20 or so seconds of time dilation.

#49 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (19517 posts) - - Show Bio

@i2edshift: Yes. I don't really see him doing anything like this, even at level 200:

to give an example,

#50 Edited by I2edShift (70 posts) - - Show Bio

@princearagorn1: I don't even know what I'm looking at. I see pirates & sailboats, not dragons. Anyways, like I said, all the Dragonborn has to do to totally incapacitate or outright kill Smaug is to Slow Time, zap out Smaug's eyes with lightning, and then shoot an arrow or two through his heart. Done. Even besides that the Dragonborn has the means to fight Smaug even without going into ridiculous levels. The type of style & feats I described can be done at level 50-60, which is VERY easily done.

High-end Dragonborn has peak human physicals, wades through platoons of soldiers in melee fights, is like Legolas with a bow, disintegrates dragons with his own lightning spells in just a few seconds of sustained fire, and has a plethora of magical spells, Thu'um abilities, and powerful weapons & armor that just make it all worse. Smaug is toast. No bias here, because Smaug was AMAZING in The Hobbit: DoS.