DOV Captain Marvel vs Superman Prime One Million

DOV Captain Marvel

Superman Prime One Million

Rules

• Morals off
• To KO or death
• Takes place on an inhabited Earth that cannot be destroyed
• No prep

because superman prime has no feats, DoV CM wins. if you remove that factor, SP stomps.

We'll never know.

@highaccuser: @baron_von_santa: He's been in The Sun for 15,000 years and is more powerful than Superman One Million. Superman One Million himself is above SA Superman.

@frozen: I don't see how we can really quantify the power of either. Cap had an unquantifiable amp because he was powered up by all DC earth mystics. However said mystics were all weakened because the magical places of power had already been destroyed and as such would reduce/ weaken the mana that all said mystics tap for their power ( and we don't know by how much)

Neither one can be defined enough to categorically say

Does anyone have feats for superman prime one million? Oh wait...

@beatboks1: Okay but what about Captain Marvel's actual showing? And while Superman may be unquantifiable to some extent, we can gauge his power level and IIRC he did have some impressive feats but I'll have to re-read.

Ummm...Superman ftw

@beatboks1: the places of power are only useful when they are IN those places. I do not see how they are weakened, and if they are, how much weaker they were.

Elaborate.

I'd go with Billy

That's the point, we don't really know.

The way it was described in the Phantom Stranger mini and in a couple of Dr Fate stories (as well as an All Star Squadron issue involving Wotan and Dr Occult) the mana (magical energy that flows through all things) is stronger and more pronounced in the places of power. Their destruction would mean that those chunks of mana (which all mages within the DCU draw on) is destroyed or greatly dispersed ( which is how you deal with a Lord of Order or Chaos who have taken mortal form, their destruction ensures they are gone for some time trying to bring their energies back together).

No one has ever said how much of the overall magical energy each place of power is. Yes any mage acting in such a place can wield much greater power but if you remove the energy that these places have you reduce the amount of energy all can use. Look at it like a cities power grid. Take out a couple of sub stations and you cause major problems everywhere. other systems are over drawn. If ever site were for example only 1% and Spectre destroyed 10 then portentially there is 10% less magical energy for all mystics to draw on in the mana. When you consider that Shazam used this distraction of Cap fighting Spectre to go an amp himself, then the magic that the earth's mystics could call upon to enhance him was even less because Shazam was taking a larger share of what was left then his normal share of more ( the pool of power is that much more reduced)

@beatboks1: or maybe you can think of magic as being released from those places. though weaker, magic in general places will be more plentiful. like containing dust in one room, and you release the dust, it causes the whole house to be more dirtier.

Baron using my other account.

But if that were the case there really wouldn't be much point to Spectre destroying the places of power, would there. His stated aim was after all to destroy magic, so the likelihood that destroying said places is steps toward achieving said goal is much greater. If it simply dispersed the "dust more" than it wouldn't achieve anything in fact more liley make it easier to oppose him.

NO FEATS

@beatboks1: the places of magic were crafted with intricate spells and wards to hold the magic. he wanted to destroy it, so that is what he did. what he does not know is that magic can not be destroyed. so perhaps he just did not know.

I've heard DOV Spectre is one of the weakest if not weakest version of him. I'll side with gold supes sup dip amp and creating his own universe is good enough for me.

@uchiha454: DoV spectre is unbound spectre, the most powerful version. his special ability allows him to leech magic. which he did after getting used to being unbound, and at the end of the series, he sucked the magic out of the whole universe and one shotted nabu, thus changing magic throughout the multiverse back when the multiverse was composed of infinite universes.

and I do not remember gold superman creating his own universe. when was that?

Unbound is the strongest I thought it was a different version in DOV then which is the weakest version? and

@uchiha454: the weakest is crispus Allen spectre, and superman said welcome to my universe. so there is no indication he created one, he is talking about the universe his sun is in.

I'm going with Day of Vengeance

@van_cere: I saw most on here considering it as him creating his own but what you said also makes sense as I don't fully understand how a kryptonian can be turned into a universe creator just from sun dipping for thousands of years but I still think he could take the amped shazam.

@uchiha454: he should be able to, but still, no feats to say he can.

This is contradicted in so many different parts of DCU continuity. Magic can very much be destroyed. It's stated in Arion's series that there was once a greater age of magic where the power of magic was much stronger. It's stated in Legion of Super Heroes that there is less magic in the universe than in centuries gone by and most resides in sorcerers world which is why Mordru had to rule it to obtain half. I can quote a dozen more examples from Dr fate series and Deadman titles etc but there is no point.

The problem is that your applying the rules of the Vertigo Universe to that of the DCU. This simply wasn't the case prior to mid 2010 when some of the DC originating characters began to return in full to the DCU. Yes DC characters appeared in Vertigo but they followed a wholly different continuity. Most of the big events of the DCU never happened in Vertigo and vice Versa. The rules and continuity and history of magic in the DCU prior to Flashpoint has absolutely no connection to those of Vertigo.

@beatboks1: I read vertigo, didn't know the rules are different.

but that's not the point, the point is, he destroyed the magical places, but he didn't know much about how magic works. he thought by killing the magicians and destroying the wards and makings, he can destroy magic. so he did not know he was simply releasing magic by destroying the places, and breaking down magic by killing the magicians.

Why are u saying his featless his Allmost featless not ZERO FEATS :

To begin with you must look at the source and the beginning. How did Superman

Prime come to be?

Quoting sources from the Superman Prime wiki and the official comic i can

explain that.

"The legend began in the last years of the second millennium anno Domini with

a birth not of this Earth. That child was Kal-El of Krypton, the sole survivor

of a cataclysm that destroyed one of the most advanced and ancient civilizations

in the galaxy. Kal-El was raised as a normal human child by the Kansas farmers

Jonathan Kent and Martha Kent. It was their love and care that would transform

one of the world's most powerful individuals from the product of a cold alien

civilization into one of the most noble and charismatic men alive. Under the

Earth-name of Clark Kent he was a reporter for the Metropolis Daily Planet where

he worked with his future wife Lois Lane. Kal-El is however more widely known by

the name, Superman. It was as the costumed "super-hero" Superman (an identity designed to preserve his privacy as Clark Kent and to protect his adopted family) that Kal-El had his biggest impact. He was the leader of Earth's superhuman (and

often much of the human) community and served as the role model that all

subsequent heroes were measured by. In his career he saved the world from the

threats of interstellar invasion, natural disaster and the continued activities

of a cadre of "super-villains" (including the original, the early Bizarros and

the sentient anti-sun Solaris). During this time Superman rose to the height of

his activities, married his beloved Lois Lane, served as leader to the Justice

League and acted as mentor to a new generation of heroes. The vast Kryptonian powers that served to make him Superman also made Kal-El

virtually immortal. He would watch as he out lived his parents, then his friends

and then even his wife Lois. Still serving as the world's foremost champion he

began to slow as the sadness of the losses began to mount. Legend then tells how

close to the end of the twenty first century, Superman Prime (as history will

remember as Kal-El) passed the responsibilities of being Superman to his heir,

Superman Secundus, and created the Superman Dynasty. Then one day he left

Earth.

The Return to His travels lasted from the 21st Century, and ended somewhere

at the turn of the 700th Century. During his travels, he acquired vast abilities

and skills from every being he meet and gained perfection over all the abilities

he received (when he broke through the Source Wall he even studied under the

Source itself, meaning he could have a portion of the Source's power or more,

the true extent of abilities he received from the Source are unknown). When he

returned he forged a covenant with his descendants, he would bestow upon them a

small fraction of his power as long as they served for truth and justice. He

also gained the abilities of his lineage and magnified them with his own power

(for example, the Superman of the 67th century married the queen of the 5th

Dimension, GZNTPLZK, which in turn gave Superman Prime the abilities and powers

of a 5th Dimension Imp). After the covenant he left and returned to his fortress

of solitude in the center of the Super Sun."

Whoa that's some impressive backstory, but how much of it is actually fact?

Lets look at scans and such to see how powerful he is technically

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First off, Superman Prime powers have come into question by some people, some of which doubt the power he possesses, here are some common critiques.

"Superman Prime couldn't even bring Lois Lane back without her DNA."

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231079

This in not true, Superman Prime was fully able to bring back Lois Lane without her DNA. He just needed it to put her into a god like body like himself. He later proves this by recreating all of planet Krypton and its inhabitants with only a Rock.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4230999

Also you may ask, "But still, doesnt this prove that he couldnt recreate something out of nothingness?" Fair enough, but i must remind you that this is when he first used his newfound powers, which probably means he was getting used to them. He proves different later on.

Other Criticism and skepticism includes

"Why did Superman need to use the Green Lantern Ring to defeat Solaris?"

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231001

Short Answer no. Solaris was already extremely weakened and therefore it is extremely possible that Superman didnt want to waste any Solar power that he didnt need to. Plus on top of the fact that the Green Lantern in the most powerful Weapon and the Universe and that the strongest of willpower can use its power to "shape reality" i definitely wouldn't put this thing at a low level.

And last but no least on the criticism is that

"Superman Prime doesnt have any feats back up his supposed Omnipotence"

This is where i can somewhat agree, but thats what the next portion of this list is gonna show.

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FEATS AND FACTS

First we have to talk about how Superman Prime came to be and where he got all of his extra powers from. Surely 15,000 years in the Sun wouldnt make him a Universal or even Mutiversal level character. For that we have to look at his power sources.

First, The 5th Dimension

For those of you that dont know, the 5th Dimensional Imps, are Imps... from the 5th Dimension... go figure. They are beings with extreme power at their disposal that put them above nearly all cosmic beings in the Multiverse. They have shown to be able to destroy dimensions by laughing and creeating entire Universes by snapping their fingers. They surely have a lot of power under their belt. But what does this have to do with Superman Primes power.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231011

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231013

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231016

Simple, this is where one of his main power sources come from. You see one of Supermans descendants actually married the Queen of the 5th Dimensional imps and not only was able to have the lineage of Superman having some 5th Dimensional powers, as mentioned here.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231018

In fact every a descendant of Superman from this gained 5th Dimensional imp powers, and one Superman WAS a 5th Dimensional Imp

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231032

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231042

But also gave much of the Superman lineage afterwards immunity to Magic

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231046

Also Mxy, the Multiversal level god who did all that crazy shit? He worked for Superman Prime later on

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231051

Seeing how powerful 5th Dimensional imps are, the fact that not only was Superman given a lot of their powers but also the fact that a 5th Dimensional imp actualy looks up to Superman means a lot. Look up Worlds Funnest for reference to how powerful they are.

This alone could give evidence to Superman Prime being majorly cosmic in power and control, but there still a lot of space left to go.

2.) The Source Wall

Superman mentions in one of his tales that he "Crashed the Gates of Heaven" to find all the answers.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231054

He also mentions that he went to the edge of the Multiverse and Back, this could mean only one thing. He went into the Source Wall

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231056

What is the Source Wall you ask? Simple, it is the wall that is supposed to separate the creator of all Reality with the Multiverse at large. It s set towards the edge of the Universe (New Earth) and is beyond the Promethea Galaxy. It isnt all to hard to access, as several have done before to gain its amazing power, that of which is beyond all others in the Multiverse, but at a terrible cist. Noone has ever reached the Source Wall itself and lived to leave, not even majorly god level beings. Only 2 have ever in DC managed to do it. Well get to the other one later.

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231057

The fact remains that Superman Prime apparentley not only got into the Source Wall, which isnt that hard, but escaped with his life and apparently some of the power and knowledge of it. This is extremely impressive and does prove that Superman is omnipotent. Why?

THIS

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231059

This is a scan of the Spectre after he had entered and absorbed some of the power of the Source. It made him powerful enough to become one with billions of Universe and such and made him almost one with The Presence. This alone proves that if Superman Prime actually entered into the Source Wall, and broke out with a fraction of the power as with the Spectre. Than that would put him on a cosmic scale, FAR above that of even the 5th Dimensional imp powers.

It is most likely that Superman Prime trained under the Source and acquired some if its powers in his thousands of yeas away, it was also what occupied his time for the most of it. This would mean that he had used this power to explore the Universe and save billions of lives. How do i know this?

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231061

This is basically as far as i need to go to prove that Superman Prime is not just Superman that spent 15,000 years in the Sun and came up Universal Level. Theres a lot more to it than that.

But i feel that i should show some more feats and such and explain why Superman Prime is considered so OP as hell.

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OTHER FEATS

The most famous feat that shows how powerful Superman Prime is is this one

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231066

This scan basically explains 2 things

1.) Superman Prime apparently made his own Universe.

2.) Superman Prime could also stop Universes from collapsing and save lives.

Now there are thise who would say that, "Well just because he said MY Universe doesnt mean its his" Well that is debateable, but still the overemphasis on MY does leave some questions, i wouldnt say My Earth if i didnt have something in direct affiliation with it, but the way he said MY was that he either owned it or had direct control over it, again, both are direct possibilites.

The thing however that makes this scan count is what Superman Prime says afterwards "Things were moving so fast even I couldnt stop your reality from collapsing" This basically proves that Superman Prime states he can stop a Universe from collapsing which in turn could mean that he could do more like rebuild or recreate. This scan however is the only one whee i seems this direct comparison is made, since there us no scan of Superman affecting Multiverses or anything badass as that, though the nonchalant way he says how he could stop realities means he could do more... but again thats based on the Power Sources and some speculation.

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CONCLUSION

Sorry this wasnt as long and as informative as some would like, but that mainly boils down to the fact that Superman Prime hasnt done all to much despite his great power, which i can understand. A lot of people dont want to see and even more OP version of Superman than already exists, so DC only uses him for the future. That and Superman Prime probably has his hands full battlig demons and evil gods somewhere in the future, and knows that any threat that happens in the past he and the Justice Leagues past selves cant fix.So theres no reason to but in in situations that dont need him.

If you dont like him i can understand, he is extremely overpowered and may seem like a boring character in comparison to Superman. But in the end, he still is Superman. He isnt a egomaniac that doesnt care for the Universe, he is still the man that protected the Universe countless times and probably protects the Multiverse for eons to come. He still remembers his roots and understands what life means. If you want proof of this look no further

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231068

(For those who can't read the last few Panels

http://www.comicvine.com/images/1300-4231069

There you go)

This Scan proves that no matter what, Superman will always remember who he is and remember the ones closest to him. Thats what makes him special, thats what makes him powerful

Thats What Makes him Superman.

Frome screwattack

the main source is Wiki

I Go With SP0M

@thebestofthebest:

Two things.

1. The edge of the universe or heavens gates means either the edge of the universe or he covered a lot of ground. The source is OUTSIDE the universes, so even if it were literal, he never encountered the source.

2. He is not a descendant; he is the original superman so the bloodline means nothing.

3. Petty excuses are trivial and irrelevant.

4. I always ask for feats, and in this case, the entire screwattack 'analyzation' is based on pathetic speculation.

I have already disapproved of every point they made once, I am not doing it again but the most important parts? I can do it infinite times.