Dormammu beats normal Phoenix easily and IMO beats Dark Phoenix as well. But definitely not easily. I just think Dormammu would win since he is much smarter than Phoenix.
Only form of Phoenix that may defeat Dormammu would be White Phoenix of the Crown.
Dormammu definitely beats ordinary, by miles, there is absolutely no way dormammu can compete with wpotc, even in his own realm.
Assuming it is not in his realm, dormammu and dark phoenix would be very close, judging from what I have read of both of them, dark phoenix' average power is much higher, although she does fluctuate a lot.
I am not sure about green phoenix, but dark phoenix will have no problem to annihilate Dormammu. If I remember correctly, she already defeated him once.
Green Phoenix is just as powerful as Dark Phoenix, the Jean Grey part cut the power level down to manageable leves while she was on Earth as to not abuse them and being taking over by the vision she saw of Dark Phoenix. without having to strain because she can access the power as she please and increase it's level to meet the next challange...
So then Dormmamu is more powerful than the M'Kraan cyrstal? If she can contain that she can contain him or more. Her power as Green Phoenix grew with every use, even while she was using it the "song" got louder and louder that is a metaphor of letting use and more and more tapping the full power of the Phoenix. A fight with him would cause her to drop those circuit breakers and let loose and spank him like she did Firelord, or knit a lattice anti-energy around the Dark Dimension and seal him away like she did the "End of All that Is"
Green Phoenix is just as powerful as Dark Phoenix, the Jean Grey part cut the power level down to manageable leves while she was on Earth as to not abuse them and being taking over by the vision she saw of Dark Phoenix. without having to strain because she can access the power as she please and increase it's level to meet the next challange...
i'm not saying green phoenix wins.. but lets not underestimate her
she still possessed enough power to possess the incredibly strong and powerful powers of telepathic, empathic, and telekinetic godhood, complete control and manipulation over the realms of matter, energy, and thought
My tendency is to say Dormammu. One question is, is Jean's Green Phoenix as powerful as Rachel's Phoenix? Because she went toe to toe with a weak Galactus. So, is a weak Galactus more powerful than Dormammu? I'm going to say yes, so perhaps Phoenix could take Dormammu after all, although Jean's Phoenix feats don't really suggest that. And I think Green more or less equals Dark Phoenix.
@Owie: The big difference between dark phoenix and green phoenix is that Dark does not care about the consequence of using her power. The only thing that DP cares about is satisfying her desires. As a result, even though there is no difference in powers and skills between two, Dark will be more destructive and lethal to her opponents.
And for Jean's phoenix feat, Jean also defeated Galactus in What If series, too. Although it may not be counted as cannon, I think it is fair to accept this feat as a valid one for Jean since there is no impressive Jean's phoenix feat in Earth-616 as you stated. Also, in What if series, Phoenix defeated Dormammu once with no difficulty.
While I agree that Jean as Green Phoenix will fail to defeat Dormammu due to her morals, Dark Phoenix will have no problem to defeat him.
@Owie: The big difference between dark phoenix and green phoenix is that Dark does not care about the consequence of using her power. The only thing that DP cares about is satisfying her desires. As a result, even though there is no difference in powers and skills between two, Dark will be more destructive and lethal to her opponents.
And for Jean's phoenix feat, Jean also defeated Galactus in What If series, too. Although it may not be counted as cannon, I think it is fair to accept this feat as a valid one for Jean since there is no impressive Jean's phoenix feat in Earth-616 as you stated. Also, in What if series, Phoenix defeated Dormammu once with no difficulty.
While I agree that Jean as Green Phoenix will fail to defeat Dormammu due to her morals, Dark Phoenix will have no problem to defeat him.
Oh sure, I agree about that difference between Dark and Green. Basically that's why Dark Phoenix had more feats, because she was willing to use her power at more reckless levels. Basically what I was trying to say was that in terms of power, if Green=Dark, and if Dark=Rachel, and if Rachel=weak Galactus, and if weak Galactus>Dormammu, then Green>Dormammu. Or, putting it all together, Green=Dark=Rachel=weak Galactus>Dormammu.
I personally agree that some non-canon materials should count, but I don't know if I'd include What If?, at least I'd only use it for corroborating evidence rather than proof in itself. Interesting to see though.
Dormammu's personal power is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Grey But Jean Grey with the Phoenix Force >>> Dormammu's personal power.
Dormammu can actually amp his powers and increase his own personal power (Via sources of the extradimensions) to limitless proportions. Through that battle, he clearly underestimated her by trying to battle "Pheonix Force" with his own personal power.
Dormammu is not more powerful than a full potential Phoenix, but to say it's a stomp is ridiculous.
He would defeat Green and Dark Phoenix.
@chriskalaani
Why is it that every Phoenix post I see you are hating on her? I have never seen you admit that she could beat anyone, hell according to you she loses to Hulk, Thor and Juggs...
My tendency is to say Dormammu. One question is, is Jean's Green Phoenix as powerful as Rachel's Phoenix? Because she went toe to toe with a weak Galactus. So, is a weak Galactus more powerful than Dormammu? I'm going to say yes, so perhaps Phoenix could take Dormammu after all, although Jean's Phoenix feats don't really suggest that. And I think Green more or less equals Dark Phoenix.
You have no idea what you're talking about do you? Weakened Galactus > Dormammu? Seriously?
My tendency is to say Dormammu. One question is, is Jean's Green Phoenix as powerful as Rachel's Phoenix? Because she went toe to toe with a weak Galactus. So, is a weak Galactus more powerful than Dormammu? I'm going to say yes, so perhaps Phoenix could take Dormammu after all, although Jean's Phoenix feats don't really suggest that. And I think Green more or less equals Dark Phoenix.
You have no idea what you're talking about do you? Weakened Galactus > Dormammu? Seriously?
Granted that my post from more than a year ago, which is far too old for most people to bother to reply to, isn't really the most cogent. And I don't know that I really agree with myself about a weakened Galactus being more powerful than Dormammu. But it's still an arguable position. Galactus has gone up and down in his feats, as has Dormammu. Recent showings by Dormammu haven't been all that spectacular. It's been a long time since he's gone up against Eternity. If you take the total amount of jobbing losses normal-power-level Dormammu has had against Dr. Strange, vs the total jobbing losses a weak Galactus has had against everyone and their brother, they're probably about equal.
Granted that my post from more than a year ago, which is far too old for most people to bother to reply to, isn't really the most cogent. And I don't know that I really agree with myself about a weakened Galactus being more powerful than Dormammu. But it's still an arguable position. Galactus has gone up and down in his feats, as has Dormammu. Recent showings by Dormammu haven't been all that spectacular. It's been a long time since he's gone up against Eternity. If you take the total amount of jobbing losses normal-power-level Dormammu has had against Dr. Strange, vs the total jobbing losses a weak Galactus has had against everyone and their brother, they're probably about equal.
Would you be kind enough to provide an issue reference, a reference to bio or a particular feat that leads you to believe the power level of Galactus has ever gone down? Anything in particular that leads you to believe so?
Dormammu has never actually been much more than a sky-father a status quo still very questionable and with plethora of feats to show he likely is below, notwithstanding increment in power level he gets within his realm. I think it is perhaps this site that treats him as such which is a little surprising.
In terms of fighting eternity, reasonably ignoring un-substantive claim made by Dormammu, via means of boast against Dr. Strange, has on panel only fought Eternity twice. The most commonly referenced being Strange Tales 146-147 which is what you seem to be referring to at the moment, where he by his own admission had been preparing for an unspecified time frame. The feat is furthermore devalued by the fact that it was revealed few issues later Eternity wanted Dormammu to feel he had an upper hand which would prevent Dormammu from further collecting powers, directly attributing that the aforementioned unspecified prep time did in fact include some off-panel boost. This if further, made pretty clear given that Dr. Strange with but a wave of his hand fixes all the destruction Dormammu causes in the very next issue, because apparently the absence of Dormammu apparently gives Dr. Strange an unspecified power boost.
With few limitation imposed on the feat above, Dormammu by his own admission is a mere skyfather level being, and actually has feats that are lacklusted compared to a full blown skyfather like say Odin (when was the last time we saw a skyfather being get one shotted by Damien Hellstorm?). He has never been much of a threat; certainly not to the level I have seen this website place him at.
Granted that my post from more than a year ago, which is far too old for most people to bother to reply to, isn't really the most cogent. And I don't know that I really agree with myself about a weakened Galactus being more powerful than Dormammu. But it's still an arguable position. Galactus has gone up and down in his feats, as has Dormammu. Recent showings by Dormammu haven't been all that spectacular. It's been a long time since he's gone up against Eternity. If you take the total amount of jobbing losses normal-power-level Dormammu has had against Dr. Strange, vs the total jobbing losses a weak Galactus has had against everyone and their brother, they're probably about equal.
Would you be kind enough to provide an issue reference, a reference to bio or a particular feat that leads you to believe the power level of Galactus has ever gone down? Anything in particular that leads you to believe so?
Dormammu has never actually been much more than a sky-father a status quo still very questionable and with plethora of feats to show he likely is below, notwithstanding increment in power level he gets within his realm. I think it is perhaps this site that treats him as such which is a little surprising.
In terms of fighting eternity, reasonably ignoring un-substantive claim made by Dormammu, via means of boast against Dr. Strange, has on panel only fought Eternity twice. The most commonly referenced being Strange Tales 146-147 which is what you seem to be referring to at the moment, where he by his own admission had been preparing for an unspecified time frame. The feat is furthermore devalued by the fact that it was revealed few issues later Eternity wanted Dormammu to feel he had an upper hand which would prevent Dormammu from further collecting powers, directly attributing that the aforementioned unspecified prep time did in fact include some off-panel boost. This if further, made pretty clear given that Dr. Strange with but a wave of his hand fixes all the destruction Dormammu causes in the very next issue, because apparently the absence of Dormammu apparently gives Dr. Strange an unspecified power boost.
With few limitation imposed on the feat above, Dormammu by his own admission is a mere skyfather level being, and actually has feats that are lacklusted compared to a full blown skyfather like say Odin (when was the last time we saw a skyfather being get one shotted by Damien Hellstorm?). He has never been much of a threat; certainly not to the level I have seen this website place him at.
I would not say that there is any reason to believe his actual power level has gone up and down--I'm not saying he's been retconned or anything like that. I'm saying he's fairly infamous for jobbing when he gets into an actual conflict.
I think Marvel often uses him as a measuring stick to show how powerful some other character is: "Character X gave Galactus a good fight, so he must be tough." By doing this reasonably often, his power has become devalued. Some cases in point would include multiple instances of Thor actually being able to damage him, or Spider-Man's assertion that Sentry stalemated him, the fact that it actually took him a fair amount of time to beat Odin, the fact that Thanos was able to give him some good hits, etc. Hell, he's Franklin's pet now. (Which I think is a cool storyline, but still.)
I know the Eternity/Dormammu thing wasn't totally legit; I wasn't trying to say it was. I was just pointing it out because it is usually given as an example of his highest feats, but it happened decades ago, so even if you took it seriously, then it's not all that topical any more.
Did Dormammu actually get one-shotted by Daimon? When was that? I'm a Hellstrom fan so I'd be entertained to know about it.
Dormammu's personal power is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Grey But Jean Grey with the Phoenix Force >>> Dormammu's personal power. Dormammu can actually amp his powers and increase his own personal power (Via sources of the extradimensions) to limitless proportions. Through that battle, he clearly underestimated her by trying to battle "Pheonix Force" with his own personal power.
Could be true, however Dormammu wasn't even there. She (Phoenix) only pushed back an astral projection of himself. The scan on the 1st page is Phoenix expelling Dormammu's astral projection, Not Dormammu himself.
Green Phoenix wins easily. How? Jean as Green Phoenix saved the entire universe (Eternity) from collapsing into the M'kraan Crystal while no other being in the universe could.
She easily beat Galactus and his heralds. The same Galactus who is equal to Odin in power level and Odin stalemated Dormammu. Not to mention that he would be subject to the creation force aka the Phoenix Force.
Jean Grey is the most powerful host for the Phoenix Force. Rachel is nothing compared to Jean, Rachel beat hungry (weak) Galactus, but even she wasn't using the totality power of GP, just a portion of it.
Jean as Green Phoenix gets more powerful every time she uses her powers while Dark Phoenix gets more powerful each second, and DP >>>> GP. GP ha some limits due to the host haven't bonded to the force. DP is more than that.
@emmett_frost: Green Phoenix wins easily. How? Jean as Green Phoenix saved the entire universe (Eternity) from collapsing into the M'kraan Crystal while no other being in the universe could.
She easily beat Galactus and his heralds. The same Galactus who is equal to Odin in power level and Odin stalemated Dormammu. Not to mention that he would be subject to the creation force aka the Phoenix Force.
Two big problems with that logic. First, Giraud of Heaven(Another Phoenix Force host from the 31st century) also did something practically equal and guess what? Dormammu easily dealt with him in a weaker incarnation back in Guardians of the Galaxy Vol.1#35-36, so Jean performing such feat doesn't prove she's above Dormammu. Not that said showings is actually above any of his own, such as actually completely overwhelming Eternity itself with Umar's help in Defenders Vol.3#3(Plus, Dweller in Darkness is a being canonically inferior to Dormmy and already proved his superior to an alternate Jean who had almost the same feat).
Second, Odin never stalemated Dormammu...Ever(Only if you count the chess-game from Thor Annual#9 as a real fight, even then Thor still interfered for his father's behalf and was an inferior/weaker Dormammu as compared to nowadays). I guess you're confusing Dormammu's statement from DSSS#02 about being the equal of Odin and Zeus, a statement that was made when his powers were still getting back to it's fully-extent and while in a far inferior body. Really, did you read any of his comics? Besides, Jean may have beaten Galactus, but Dormammu has fought and in certain instances even defeated on his own entities like Zom, The Vishanti and Slorioth...Much more powerful beings.
Just throwing this here(It doesn't matter in this fight, but is a correction nonetheless), the scans above with Phoenix Jean defeating Dormammu are from What If?(1989)#37...A non-canon comic. While this information may have been mentioned already, I haven't seen any users showing that Jean(Together with the other X-Vampires) was also marginally amped by the Darkhold when fought against the Dread One:
@andromeda101: Jean is the most powerful Phoenix there is. And that alternate version of Jean might not be as powerful as the 616 one.
Dormammu didn't overwhelm Eternity with his own power. Saving Eternity from a collopse not even he could save himself from it is more impressive imo.
Dormammu is not as powerful as Zom or the Vishanti. Only the LT were powerful enough to stop Zom. The Vishanti are powerful enough to hold Chthon and Seth in their dimensions "2 entities vastly more powerful than Dormammu".
Jean is tapping to creation itself. If this is Dark Phoenix, Dormammu loses badly. If it is Green then this is a good fight but I will go with Jean.
Remember Phoenix Cyclops was able to weaken God Doom while the IG weren't even capable of doing anything to him. Doom was a multiversal being.
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