#1 Edited by Edamame (27994 posts) - - Show Bio

 
Nota Bene: If Dormammu loses against Green Phoenix, then he gets to fight Dark Phoenix next.
 

 


   
Dark Phoenix
#2 Edited by Edamame (27994 posts) - - Show Bio

.....

#3 Posted by ChompOnThis12589 (123 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu beats normal Phoenix easily and IMO beats Dark Phoenix as well. But definitely not easily. I just think Dormammu would win since he is much smarter than Phoenix. 
 
Only form of Phoenix that may defeat Dormammu would be White Phoenix of the Crown.

#4 Posted by Nessy (569 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu definitely beats ordinary, by miles, there is absolutely no way dormammu can compete with wpotc, even in his own realm. 
 
Assuming it is not in his realm, dormammu and dark phoenix would be very close, judging from what I have read of both of them, dark phoenix' average power is much higher, although she does fluctuate a lot.
#5 Posted by spekqj (566 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not sure about green phoenix, but dark phoenix will have no problem to annihilate Dormammu. If I remember correctly, she already defeated him once.

#6 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3914 posts) - - Show Bio

Green Phoenix is just as powerful as Dark Phoenix, the Jean Grey part cut the power level down to manageable leves while she was on Earth as to not abuse them and being taking over by the vision she saw of Dark Phoenix. 
 without having to strain because she can access the power as she please and increase it's level to meet the next challange...
 
#7 Posted by Dex_Starr (4772 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormmamu quite easily

#8 Posted by LordOfAllHumans (3914 posts) - - Show Bio
@Hohenheim_of_light said:
Dormmamu quite easily

So then Dormmamu is more powerful than the M'Kraan cyrstal?  If she can contain that she can contain him or more.  Her power as Green Phoenix grew with every use, even while she was using it the "song" got louder and louder that is a metaphor of letting use and more and more tapping the full power of the Phoenix.  A fight with him would cause her to drop those circuit breakers and let loose and spank him like she did Firelord, or knit a lattice anti-energy around the Dark Dimension and seal him away like she did the "End of All that Is"
#9 Posted by Boobster (1608 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu stomps.

#10 Posted by daak1212 (7901 posts) - - Show Bio
@LordOfAllHumans said:

Green Phoenix is just as powerful as Dark Phoenix, the Jean Grey part cut the power level down to manageable leves while she was on Earth as to not abuse them and being taking over by the vision she saw of Dark Phoenix. 
 without having to strain because she can access the power as she please and increase it's level to meet the next challange...
This....doesn't say anything.
#11 Posted by thanobomb1124 (2010 posts) - - Show Bio

dark Phoenix wins
#12 Posted by venomoushatred1001 (12334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Boobster said:
Dormammu stomps.
#13 Posted by BigCimmerian (7863 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu=Zeus/Odin right?

#14 Posted by spekqj (566 posts) - - Show Bio
@venomoushatred1001 said:
@Boobster said:
Dormammu stomps.
even against dark phoenix?
#15 Posted by BMEZY (1206 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm not saying green phoenix wins.. but lets not underestimate her 
 
she still possessed enough power to possess the incredibly strong and powerful powers of telepathic, empathic, and telekinetic godhood, complete control and manipulation over the realms of matter, energy, and thought
#16 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7184 posts) - - Show Bio
@BigCimmerian said:


                    Dormammu=Zeus/Odin right?

                   

               

 
Odin stalemated him at one point yes.
#17 Posted by Owie (3627 posts) - - Show Bio

My tendency is to say Dormammu.  One question is, is Jean's Green Phoenix as powerful as Rachel's Phoenix?  Because she went toe to toe with a weak Galactus.  So, is a weak Galactus more powerful than Dormammu?  I'm going to say yes, so perhaps Phoenix could take Dormammu after all, although Jean's Phoenix feats don't really suggest that.  And I think Green more or less equals Dark Phoenix.

#18 Posted by spekqj (566 posts) - - Show Bio
@Owie: The big difference between dark phoenix and green phoenix is that Dark does not care about the consequence of using her power. The only thing that DP cares about is satisfying her desires. As a result, even though there is no difference in powers and skills between two, Dark will be more destructive and lethal to her opponents.  
 
And for Jean's phoenix feat, Jean also defeated Galactus in What If series, too.  Although it may not be counted as cannon, I think it is fair to accept this feat as a valid one for Jean since there is no impressive Jean's phoenix feat in Earth-616 as you stated. Also, in What if series, Phoenix defeated Dormammu once with no difficulty.
 
 While I agree that Jean as Green Phoenix will fail to defeat Dormammu due to her morals, Dark Phoenix will have no problem to defeat him.
#19 Posted by Owie (3627 posts) - - Show Bio
@spekqj said:
@Owie: The big difference between dark phoenix and green phoenix is that Dark does not care about the consequence of using her power. The only thing that DP cares about is satisfying her desires. As a result, even though there is no difference in powers and skills between two, Dark will be more destructive and lethal to her opponents.  
 
And for Jean's phoenix feat, Jean also defeated Galactus in What If series, too.  Although it may not be counted as cannon, I think it is fair to accept this feat as a valid one for Jean since there is no impressive Jean's phoenix feat in Earth-616 as you stated. Also, in What if series, Phoenix defeated Dormammu once with no difficulty.
 
         
 While I agree that Jean as Green Phoenix will fail to defeat Dormammu due to her morals, Dark Phoenix will have no problem to defeat him.
Oh sure, I agree about that difference between Dark and Green.  Basically that's why Dark Phoenix had more feats, because she was willing to use her power at more reckless levels.  Basically what I was trying to say was that in terms of power, if Green=Dark, and if Dark=Rachel, and if Rachel=weak Galactus, and if weak Galactus>Dormammu, then Green>Dormammu.  Or, putting it all together, Green=Dark=Rachel=weak Galactus>Dormammu.
 
 
I personally agree that some non-canon materials should count, but I don't know if I'd include What If?, at least I'd only use it for corroborating evidence rather than proof in itself.  Interesting to see though. 
#20 Edited by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu's personal power is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Grey 
But Jean Grey with the Phoenix Force >>> Dormammu's personal power. 
 
Dormammu can actually amp his powers and increase his own personal power (Via sources of the extradimensions) to limitless proportions. Through that battle, he clearly underestimated her by trying to battle "Pheonix Force" with his own personal power. 

#21 Posted by Erik (31724 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne:  
Phoenix can amplify her power as well by drawing on the limitless power that is the life energy of the future. 
Online
#22 Posted by tron_bonne (2286 posts) - - Show Bio
@Erik: Yes, that's why Pheonix is said to have unlimited power. But the same applies to Dormammu.
#23 Posted by Erik (31724 posts) - - Show Bio
@tron_bonne said:
@Erik: Yes, that's why Pheonix is said to have unlimited power. But the same applies to Dormammu.
I agree with what you said about Dormammu. I just did not know if you knew about what Phoenix could do. 
Online
#24 Posted by Detroit101 (150 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu wins in a badass contest.......................

#25 Posted by chriskalaani (239 posts) - - Show Bio

dormammu curbstomps both

#26 Posted by Pwok21 (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu is not more powerful than a full potential Phoenix, but to say it's a stomp is ridiculous.

He would defeat Green and Dark Phoenix.

#27 Posted by Sniber (317 posts) - - Show Bio

green phoenix wins

#28 Posted by KingofComix (211 posts) - - Show Bio

@Owie said:

My tendency is to say Dormammu. One question is, is Jean's Green Phoenix as powerful as Rachel's Phoenix? Because she went toe to toe with a weak Galactus. So, is a weak Galactus more powerful than Dormammu? I'm going to say yes, so perhaps Phoenix could take Dormammu after all, although Jean's Phoenix feats don't really suggest that. And I think Green more or less equals Dark Phoenix.

You have no idea what you're talking about do you? Weakened Galactus > Dormammu? Seriously?

#29 Posted by KingofComix (211 posts) - - Show Bio

@Sniber said:

green phoenix wins

No she doesn't troll.

#30 Posted by dondave (34674 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu ftw

#31 Posted by Killemall (18323 posts) - - Show Bio

Neither of the two are really accomplished beings any way, i would more lean towards Dormammu.

#32 Posted by Owie (3627 posts) - - Show Bio

@KingofComix said:

@Owie said:

My tendency is to say Dormammu. One question is, is Jean's Green Phoenix as powerful as Rachel's Phoenix? Because she went toe to toe with a weak Galactus. So, is a weak Galactus more powerful than Dormammu? I'm going to say yes, so perhaps Phoenix could take Dormammu after all, although Jean's Phoenix feats don't really suggest that. And I think Green more or less equals Dark Phoenix.

You have no idea what you're talking about do you? Weakened Galactus > Dormammu? Seriously?

Granted that my post from more than a year ago, which is far too old for most people to bother to reply to, isn't really the most cogent. And I don't know that I really agree with myself about a weakened Galactus being more powerful than Dormammu. But it's still an arguable position. Galactus has gone up and down in his feats, as has Dormammu. Recent showings by Dormammu haven't been all that spectacular. It's been a long time since he's gone up against Eternity. If you take the total amount of jobbing losses normal-power-level Dormammu has had against Dr. Strange, vs the total jobbing losses a weak Galactus has had against everyone and their brother, they're probably about equal.

#33 Posted by I_am_Warlock (289 posts) - - Show Bio

@Owie said:

Granted that my post from more than a year ago, which is far too old for most people to bother to reply to, isn't really the most cogent. And I don't know that I really agree with myself about a weakened Galactus being more powerful than Dormammu. But it's still an arguable position. Galactus has gone up and down in his feats, as has Dormammu. Recent showings by Dormammu haven't been all that spectacular. It's been a long time since he's gone up against Eternity. If you take the total amount of jobbing losses normal-power-level Dormammu has had against Dr. Strange, vs the total jobbing losses a weak Galactus has had against everyone and their brother, they're probably about equal.

Would you be kind enough to provide an issue reference, a reference to bio or a particular feat that leads you to believe the power level of Galactus has ever gone down? Anything in particular that leads you to believe so?

Dormammu has never actually been much more than a sky-father a status quo still very questionable and with plethora of feats to show he likely is below, notwithstanding increment in power level he gets within his realm. I think it is perhaps this site that treats him as such which is a little surprising.

In terms of fighting eternity, reasonably ignoring un-substantive claim made by Dormammu, via means of boast against Dr. Strange, has on panel only fought Eternity twice. The most commonly referenced being Strange Tales 146-147 which is what you seem to be referring to at the moment, where he by his own admission had been preparing for an unspecified time frame. The feat is furthermore devalued by the fact that it was revealed few issues later Eternity wanted Dormammu to feel he had an upper hand which would prevent Dormammu from further collecting powers, directly attributing that the aforementioned unspecified prep time did in fact include some off-panel boost. This if further, made pretty clear given that Dr. Strange with but a wave of his hand fixes all the destruction Dormammu causes in the very next issue, because apparently the absence of Dormammu apparently gives Dr. Strange an unspecified power boost.

With few limitation imposed on the feat above, Dormammu by his own admission is a mere skyfather level being, and actually has feats that are lacklusted compared to a full blown skyfather like say Odin (when was the last time we saw a skyfather being get one shotted by Damien Hellstorm?). He has never been much of a threat; certainly not to the level I have seen this website place him at.

#34 Posted by Owie (3627 posts) - - Show Bio

@I_am_Warlock said:

@Owie said:

Granted that my post from more than a year ago, which is far too old for most people to bother to reply to, isn't really the most cogent. And I don't know that I really agree with myself about a weakened Galactus being more powerful than Dormammu. But it's still an arguable position. Galactus has gone up and down in his feats, as has Dormammu. Recent showings by Dormammu haven't been all that spectacular. It's been a long time since he's gone up against Eternity. If you take the total amount of jobbing losses normal-power-level Dormammu has had against Dr. Strange, vs the total jobbing losses a weak Galactus has had against everyone and their brother, they're probably about equal.

Would you be kind enough to provide an issue reference, a reference to bio or a particular feat that leads you to believe the power level of Galactus has ever gone down? Anything in particular that leads you to believe so?

Dormammu has never actually been much more than a sky-father a status quo still very questionable and with plethora of feats to show he likely is below, notwithstanding increment in power level he gets within his realm. I think it is perhaps this site that treats him as such which is a little surprising.

In terms of fighting eternity, reasonably ignoring un-substantive claim made by Dormammu, via means of boast against Dr. Strange, has on panel only fought Eternity twice. The most commonly referenced being Strange Tales 146-147 which is what you seem to be referring to at the moment, where he by his own admission had been preparing for an unspecified time frame. The feat is furthermore devalued by the fact that it was revealed few issues later Eternity wanted Dormammu to feel he had an upper hand which would prevent Dormammu from further collecting powers, directly attributing that the aforementioned unspecified prep time did in fact include some off-panel boost. This if further, made pretty clear given that Dr. Strange with but a wave of his hand fixes all the destruction Dormammu causes in the very next issue, because apparently the absence of Dormammu apparently gives Dr. Strange an unspecified power boost.

With few limitation imposed on the feat above, Dormammu by his own admission is a mere skyfather level being, and actually has feats that are lacklusted compared to a full blown skyfather like say Odin (when was the last time we saw a skyfather being get one shotted by Damien Hellstorm?). He has never been much of a threat; certainly not to the level I have seen this website place him at.

I would not say that there is any reason to believe his actual power level has gone up and down--I'm not saying he's been retconned or anything like that. I'm saying he's fairly infamous for jobbing when he gets into an actual conflict.

I think Marvel often uses him as a measuring stick to show how powerful some other character is: "Character X gave Galactus a good fight, so he must be tough." By doing this reasonably often, his power has become devalued. Some cases in point would include multiple instances of Thor actually being able to damage him, or Spider-Man's assertion that Sentry stalemated him, the fact that it actually took him a fair amount of time to beat Odin, the fact that Thanos was able to give him some good hits, etc. Hell, he's Franklin's pet now. (Which I think is a cool storyline, but still.)

I know the Eternity/Dormammu thing wasn't totally legit; I wasn't trying to say it was. I was just pointing it out because it is usually given as an example of his highest feats, but it happened decades ago, so even if you took it seriously, then it's not all that topical any more.

Did Dormammu actually get one-shotted by Daimon? When was that? I'm a Hellstrom fan so I'd be entertained to know about it.

#35 Posted by arslan1234 (17 posts) - - Show Bio
@thanobomb1124 said:
dark Phoenix wins
its green phoenix dormmamu wins read the title 
#36 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Neither of the two are really accomplished beings any way, i would more lean towards Dormammu.

I agree. I also lean towards DP... GP like Rachel is to morally restrain.

#37 Posted by thanobomb1124 (2010 posts) - - Show Bio

@arslan1234: lol. Ok

#38 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (6954 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu says he stronger than the phoenix force...but I doubt we can take his word on things. Since he considers himself above everyone.

#39 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - - Show Bio

@tron_bonne said:

Dormammu's personal power is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jean Grey But Jean Grey with the Phoenix Force >>> Dormammu's personal power. Dormammu can actually amp his powers and increase his own personal power (Via sources of the extradimensions) to limitless proportions. Through that battle, he clearly underestimated her by trying to battle "Pheonix Force" with his own personal power.

Could be true, however Dormammu wasn't even there. She (Phoenix) only pushed back an astral projection of himself. The scan on the 1st page is Phoenix expelling Dormammu's astral projection, Not Dormammu himself.

#40 Posted by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio

green phoenix loses dark phoenix wins

#41 Posted by The_Titan_Lord (4696 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu