Dormammu vs Elder Gods

@TheUltimateSurvivor: No Set or Gaea?And where is Chthon?

@TheUltimateSurvivor: No Set or Gaea?And where is Chthon?

I still don't see him beating a multidude of elder gods.

Elder Gods

Any specific reasons ?

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

Any specific reasons ?

Cthon in theory should be able to take out most of them being a multiversal/omniversal and most of team one is universal/multiversal.  Set should be able to hold his own against a couple and Gaea and Oshtur seem like back up.  I lie about Oshtur, Oshtur and Cthon should be the main force here.  How strong is Dormammu actually?  He seems on and off, like he can be universal buster or multiversal but then he gets beat down by Strange and trapped inside his own lair in a face to face conflict with DOctor Voodoo in Doctor Voodoo: Sorcerer Supreme #1.

Oshtur and Chthon can take out Dormammu. In fact, Dormammu also invokes Chthon if i remember correctly.

@daak1212 said:

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

Any specific reasons ?

Cthon in theory should be able to take out most of them being a multiversal/omniversal and most of team one is universal/multiversal.  Set should be able to hold his own against a couple and Gaea and Oshtur seem like back up.  I lie about Oshtur, Oshtur and Cthon should be the main force here.  How strong is Dormammu actually?  He seems on and off, like he can be universal buster or multiversal but then he gets beat down by Strange and trapped inside his own lair in a face to face conflict with DOctor Voodoo in Doctor Voodoo: Sorcerer Supreme #1.

Chthon isn't taking out, that lord_bla bla bla speaded false information about Chaos Wave being a creation of Chthon and other b/s.
In fact Chthon shit his pants from Demogorge.
Dormammu once battled Eternity, I guess. Don't know the outcome, know only Eternity then latter was trapped by Nightmare after that fight.

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

@daak1212 said:

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

Any specific reasons ?

Cthon in theory should be able to take out most of them being a multiversal/omniversal and most of team one is universal/multiversal.  Set should be able to hold his own against a couple and Gaea and Oshtur seem like back up.  I lie about Oshtur, Oshtur and Cthon should be the main force here.  How strong is Dormammu actually?  He seems on and off, like he can be universal buster or multiversal but then he gets beat down by Strange and trapped inside his own lair in a face to face conflict with DOctor Voodoo in Doctor Voodoo: Sorcerer Supreme #1.

Chthon isn't taking out, that lord_bla bla bla speaded false information about Chaos Wave being a creation of Chthon and other b/s.
In fact Chthon shit his pants from Demogorge.
Dormammu once battled Eternity, I guess. Don't know the outcome, know only Eternity then latter was trapped by Nightmare after that fight.

Im pretty sure there was a big debate about this a while back.  I think it was Chthon vs Cytorakk or Demogorge Im not really sure.  Out of curiosity are we allowing Chthon to have Darkholme here? 

@TheUltimateSurvivor said: 

Chthon isn't taking out, that lord_bla bla bla speaded false information about Chaos Wave being a creation of Chthon and other b/s.
In fact Chthon shit his pants from Demogorge.
Dormammu once battled Eternity, I guess. Don't know the outcome, know only Eternity then latter was trapped by Nightmare after that fight.

Im pretty sure there was a big debate about this a while back.  I think it was Chthon vs Cytorakk or Demogorge Im not really sure.  Out of curiosity are we allowing Chthon to have Darkholme here? 

the use of Wanda's powers made a tear in the fabric of reality causing the reality of catastrophic wave of temporal energy the destroyed everything in its path and even threatened to reach the Throne of God itself.. 

@daak1212 said:

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

Any specific reasons ?

Cthon in theory should be able to take out most of them being a multiversal/omniversal and most of team one is universal/multiversal.  Set should be able to hold his own against a couple and Gaea and Oshtur seem like back up.  I lie about Oshtur, Oshtur and Cthon should be the main force here.  How strong is Dormammu actually?  He seems on and off, like he can be universal buster or multiversal but then he gets beat down by Strange and trapped inside his own lair in a face to face conflict with DOctor Voodoo in Doctor Voodoo: Sorcerer Supreme #1.

Chthon isn't taking out, that lord_bla bla bla speaded false information about Chaos Wave being a creation of Chthon and other b/s.
In fact Chthon shit his pants from Demogorge.
Dormammu once battled Eternity, I guess. Don't know the outcome, know only Eternity then latter was trapped by Nightmare after that fight.

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

@daak1212 said:

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

Any specific reasons ?

Cthon in theory should be able to take out most of them being a multiversal/omniversal and most of team one is universal/multiversal.  Set should be able to hold his own against a couple and Gaea and Oshtur seem like back up.  I lie about Oshtur, Oshtur and Cthon should be the main force here.  How strong is Dormammu actually?  He seems on and off, like he can be universal buster or multiversal but then he gets beat down by Strange and trapped inside his own lair in a face to face conflict with DOctor Voodoo in Doctor Voodoo: Sorcerer Supreme #1.

Chthon isn't taking out, that lord_bla bla bla speaded false information about Chaos Wave being a creation of Chthon and other b/s.
In fact Chthon shit his pants from Demogorge.
Dormammu once battled Eternity, I guess. Don't know the outcome, know only Eternity then latter was trapped by Nightmare after that fight.

1.lord_oraculous probably knows magic beings better than any of us.  2.Dormammu didn't fought with Eternity under his own power. He was really, really boosted. He is Odin's equal, nothing more. 3.Cyttorak is for sure in The Vishanti's level, which are over-universal. But so are Elder Gods according to what we've seen about them. For example, Gaea gived Herc power with which he reformed multiverse.

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

@daak1212 said:

@TheUltimateSurvivor said:

Any specific reasons ?

Cthon in theory should be able to take out most of them being a multiversal/omniversal and most of team one is universal/multiversal.  Set should be able to hold his own against a couple and Gaea and Oshtur seem like back up.  I lie about Oshtur, Oshtur and Cthon should be the main force here.  How strong is Dormammu actually?  He seems on and off, like he can be universal buster or multiversal but then he gets beat down by Strange and trapped inside his own lair in a face to face conflict with DOctor Voodoo in Doctor Voodoo: Sorcerer Supreme #1.

Chthon isn't taking out, that lord_bla bla bla speaded false information about Chaos Wave being a creation of Chthon and other b/s.
In fact Chthon shit his pants from Demogorge.
Dormammu once battled Eternity, I guess. Don't know the outcome, know only Eternity then latter was trapped by Nightmare after that fight.

1.lord_oraculous probably knows magic beings better than any of us.  2.Dormammu didn't fought with Eternity under his own power. He was really, really boosted. He is Odin's equal, nothing more. 3.Cyttorak is for sure in The Vishanti's level, which are over-universal. But so are Elder Gods according to what we've seen about them. For example, Gaea gived Herc power with which he reformed multiverse.

1. this might be true if it wasn't for biasness. he probably has slightly an edge of knowledge when it comes to magical beings that dwell inner-dimensionally. you know; the beings that interact with marvel more, but when it comes to the principalities, his edge kinda buckles... this is why i like to think that oshtur is > chthon, because she went beyond being an elder god and became one of the principalities. i was going to add this to my argument, but due to the length of that post, i thought that i should save it for something later.
2. dormammu was a principality exiled being and his strength and power by itself is about as powerful as a skyfather, but when he invokes from the principality like dr. strange does, he can get very powerful. so there is personal power and conjuring power and if you add them together, you can get a dormammu who can easily swallow eternity and a dr. strange that can fight a living tribunal.
3. i like to think that the vishianti are more equal to shuma gorath with shuma being slightly more powerful than each of the 3 alone, but cyttorak is a whole different thing because it considers itself an entire cosmos of unlimited, timeless energy.

Elder gods should win this

@czarny_samael said: 

1.lord_oraculous probably knows magic beings better than any of us.  2.Dormammu didn't fought with Eternity under his own power. He was really, really boosted. He is Odin's equal, nothing more. 3.Cyttorak is for sure in The Vishanti's level, which are over-universal. But so are Elder Gods according to what we've seen about them. For example, Gaea gived Herc power with which he reformed multiverse.

 

1. this might be true if it wasn't for biasness. he probably has slightly an edge of knowledge when it comes to magical beings that dwell inner-dimensionally. you know; the beings that interact with marvel more, but when it comes to the principalities, his edge kinda buckles... this is why i like to think that oshtur is > chthon, because she went beyond being an elder god and became one of the principalities. i was going to add this to my argument, but due to the length of that post, i thought that i should save it for something later.
2. dormammu was a principality exiled being and his strength and power by itself is about as powerful as a skyfather, but when he invokes from the principality like dr. strange does, he can get very powerful. so there is personal power and conjuring power and if you add them together, you can get a dormammu who can easily swallow eternity and a dr. strange that can fight a living tribunal.
3. i like to think that the vishianti are more equal to shuma gorath with shuma being slightly more powerful than each of the 3 alone, but cyttorak is a whole different thing because it considers itself an entire cosmos of unlimited, timeless energy.

1. that is because i am obsessed with the realms of magic.. i own mostly any magically related Marvel publication there is.. Mystic Arcana, Marvel Tarots, Marvel's Encyclopedia Mythologica, Marvel Zombies: Book of Angels, Demons and Monstrosities and many more.. and for a fact, i am never biased.. just because i support a certain character who is clearly superior in many aspects which are factual, then that makes me biased? when did correcting someone by telling the truth a bad thing? the fact is, the Principalities are nothing more but mystical beings who managed to escape the realms of Earth and dwell in extra-dimensional planes.. with that, all Elder Gods not just Oshtur are considered Principalities since they all reside on extra-dimensional planes and empowers sorcerers.. there is no special connotation on being a principality.. that is just the fact of the whole idea..
2. Dormammu is a member of the Faltine race which are beings composed of pure mystic energy.. and at most he is Skyfather level.. even with all the aid to the Principalities, he is still no match against the Living tribunal as the Living Tribunal can easily demolish any principality.. Dormammu can't never ever defeat Eternity is a fight with no plot device such as the shift in the cosmic axis..
3. the Vishanti combined are indeed equal to Shuma-Gorath.. but Cyttorak wouldn't stand a chance against Shuma-Gorath.. the Crimson Cosmos for once and for is not unlimited.. and its timeless characteristics and be affected even by just bringing a watch inside it.. please, just for once drop the obsession for the character.. there are tons of false assumptions and misinterpretations already..

 
 @lord_oraculous016 said:

@Lance Bastro said:

@czarny_samael said: 

1.lord_oraculous probably knows magic beings better than any of us.  2.Dormammu didn't fought with Eternity under his own power. He was really, really boosted. He is Odin's equal, nothing more. 3.Cyttorak is for sure in The Vishanti's level, which are over-universal. But so are Elder Gods according to what we've seen about them. For example, Gaea gived Herc power with which he reformed multiverse.

 

1. this might be true if it wasn't for biasness. he probably has slightly an edge of knowledge when it comes to magical beings that dwell inner-dimensionally. you know; the beings that interact with marvel more, but when it comes to the principalities, his edge kinda buckles... this is why i like to think that oshtur is > chthon, because she went beyond being an elder god and became one of the principalities. i was going to add this to my argument, but due to the length of that post, i thought that i should save it for something later.
2. dormammu was a principality exiled being and his strength and power by itself is about as powerful as a skyfather, but when he invokes from the principality like dr. strange does, he can get very powerful. so there is personal power and conjuring power and if you add them together, you can get a dormammu who can easily swallow eternity and a dr. strange that can fight a living tribunal.
3. i like to think that the vishianti are more equal to shuma gorath with shuma being slightly more powerful than each of the 3 alone, but cyttorak is a whole different thing because it considers itself an entire cosmos of unlimited, timeless energy.

 

1. that is because i am obsessed with the realms of magic.. i own mostly any magically related Marvel publication there is.. Mystic Arcana, Marvel Tarots, Marvel's Encyclopedia Mythologica, Marvel Zombies: Book of Angels, Demons and Monstrosities and many more.. and for a fact, i am never biased.. just because i support a certain character who is clearly superior in many aspects which are factual, then that makes me biased? when did correcting someone by telling the truth a bad thing? the fact is, the Principalities are nothing more but mystical beings who managed to escape the realms of Earth and dwell in extra-dimensional planes.. with that, all Elder Gods not just Oshtur are considered Principalities since they all reside on extra-dimensional planes and empowers sorcerers.. there is no special connotation on being a principality.. that is just the fact of the whole idea..
2. Dormammu is a member of the Faltine race which are beings composed of pure mystic energy.. and at most he is Skyfather level.. even with all the aid to the Principalities, he is still no match against the Living tribunal as the Living Tribunal can easily demolish any principality.. Dormammu can't never ever defeat Eternity is a fight with no plot device such as the shift in the cosmic axis..
3. the Vishanti combined are indeed equal to Shuma-Gorath.. but Cyttorak wouldn't stand a chance against Shuma-Gorath.. the Crimson Cosmos for once and for is not unlimited.. and its timeless characteristics and be affected even by just bringing a watch inside it.. please, just for once drop the obsession for the character.. there are tons of false assumptions and misinterpretations already..

1. well that's good for you that you actually own them as you say so, but you need to realize that some characters are supposed to be as vague as the principalities because there are just some things that we are not supposes to understand. meaning we are unable to understand even if we tried. these beings such as the principalities. this is also one reason why oshtur left earth. she wanted to evolve to something more. was she called "omnipotent oshtur before or after her transcendence? who and what was it that helped her reach this status? i'm sure you know these answers. i didn't mean to say that you where biased straight out, but once you've made up your mind, you pretty much stick to it in a kind of biased manner.... and your attitude goes from ^_^   to  T___T  to  >=(     i know principality is a title of "here, i will lend you power" entities. that is why i feel safer to just call them extra-dimensional entities. if chthon or set was truly extra-dimensional, earth would be the last thing set on their minds.
2. dormammu was casted out and was nerfed off most of his personal powers. his personal level of power is skyfather, but with the aid of the principalities it stacks to his personal powers. the only problem is that he needs a mind set to maintain all that stacked power (conjuring power) without loosing his focus. for example; how living tribunal lost his focus on maintaining the rings of raggadorr. the living tribunal can not demolish a principality (err.. extra-dimensional entity) like you say he could because if that were the case, he would not have had such a very hard time fighting with nebulos.... (which the LT did win after some struggling use of effort) who else could the LT could not stop that was ED leveled? shuma? rune????
3. cyttorak and shuma are -/- and +/+ because shuma will be feeding off unlimited trans-infinite power and cyttorak never looses power so it's a moot..... however, where shuma can starve and weaken, cyttorak does not..... i bet if you placed trion juggernaut against a full powered non jobber shuma, trion will eventually win.... and this is not even half of cyttorak's power. **cough!**  below 12.5%  **cough!**. i'm not overly obsessed with juggernaut as you are to your wanda/chthon because i debate about other subjects too... from cosmics to street levelers and from video game characters to manga characters.... i have a variety of knowledge that does not circulate around juggernaut and cyttorak, and i only debate about juggernaut and cyttorak when it is brought up.... but you! you actually create threads and debate within your own threads.... i don't do that; if so, hardly... i push my threads for other people to debate, while you actually argue on yours almost all the time. and unlike me, you push as though you want to force your arguments down whoever your debating with throats like you try to do me and all i did was respond. haven't you notice by now that i use open ended questions and probing questions? like.... why does lance think this, and what are the reason and what are the proof to those reasons??? and "well lance, you say this, and this says that?"  let's say when you are writing an essay to a class, you want to fill in the gaps to every question that could possibly pop up so that your essay fills more complete and less biased. but all i get from you are opinions with no question whether the book is right or wrong.... there is a saying about this... ""I respect faith but doubt is what gets you an education.""~ Wilson Mizner ///// your obsession with your #1 is keeping you from any doubt..... it is you who needs to lay aside the facts of the book and start questioning what doesn't fit right with your characters.... trust me, for over 30 years cyttorak has remained the same as "an unlimited source", while other character like the elder gods are being reformed left and right by various writers.... well.... (????)

i got my face on a side of a mountain. 
you voted for john mc cain! 
i gotta bucket full of my head 
and i'm about to make it rain! 
 
you block bullets with your beard! 
i catch em' my skull 
i make fun of walker texas ranger and i don't even see that show!

1. well that's good for you that you actually own them as you say so, but you need to realize that some characters are supposed to be as vague as the principalities because there are just some things that we are not supposes to understand. meaning we are unable to understand even if we tried. 

 this is also one reason why oshtur left earth. she wanted to evolve to something more. was she called "omnipotent oshtur before or after her transcendence? who and what was it that helped her reach this status? i'm sure you know these answers.

i didn't mean to say that you where biased straight out, but once you've made up your mind, you pretty much stick to it in a kind of biased manner.... and your attitude goes from ^_^   to  T___T  to  >=( 

i know principality is a title of "here, i will lend you power" entities. that is why i feel safer to just call them extra-dimensional entities. if chthon or set was truly extra-dimensional, earth would be the last thing set on their minds.

dormammu was casted out and was nerfed off most of his personal powers. his personal level of power is skyfather, but with the aid of the principalities it stacks to his personal powers. the only problem is that he needs a mind set to maintain all that stacked power (conjuring power) without loosing his focus. for example; how living tribunal lost his focus on maintaining the rings of raggadorr. the living tribunal can not demolish a principality (err.. extra-dimensional entity) like you say he could because if that were the case, he would not have had such a very hard time fighting with nebulos.... (which the LT did win after some struggling use of effort) who else could the LT could not stop that was ED leveled? shuma? rune???? 

cyttorak and shuma are -/- and +/+ because shuma will be feeding off unlimited trans-infinite power and cyttorak never looses power so it's a moot..... however, where shuma can starve and weaken, cyttorak does not..... i bet if you placed trion juggernaut against a full powered non jobber shuma, trion will eventually win.... and this is not even half of cyttorak's power. **cough!**  below 12.5%  **cough!**. i'm not overly obsessed with juggernaut as you are to your wanda/chthon because i debate about other subjects too... from cosmics to street levelers and from video game characters to manga characters.... i have a variety of knowledge that does not circulate around juggernaut and cyttorak, and i only debate about juggernaut and cyttorak when it is brought up.... but you! you actually create threads and debate within your own threads.... i don't do that; if so, hardly... i push my threads for other people to debate, while you actually argue on yours almost all the time. and unlike me, you push as though you want to force your arguments down whoever your debating with throats like you try to do me and all i did was respond. haven't you notice by now that i use open ended questions and probing questions? like.... why does lance think this, and what are the reason and what are the proof to those reasons??? and "well lance, you say this, and this says that?"  let's say when you are writing an essay to a class, you want to fill in the gaps to every question that could possibly pop up so that your essay fills more complete and less biased. but all i get from you are opinions with no question whether the book is right or wrong.... there is a saying about this... ""I respect faith but doubt is what gets you an education.""~ Wilson Mizner ///// your obsession with your #1 is keeping you from any doubt..... it is you who needs to lay aside the facts of the book and start questioning what doesn't fit right with your characters.... trust me, for over 30 years cyttorak has remained the same as "an unlimited source", while other character like the elder gods are being reformed left and right by various writers.... well.... (????)