#1 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan Scott is highly motivated, but not bloodlusted. Dormammu is in character. No prep. Standard gear. PreNew 52 Alan Scott. Win by death or KO. Takes place in Gotham City(for the sake of this battle there are no trees or wood related products in the area).

#2 Posted by beatboks1 (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

@joeagentofhand1:

for the sake of this battle there are no trees or wood related products in the area

That part of the statement isn't needed. Alan hasn't had a weakness to wood for some time. Not since the sentinel upgrade in the 80's. He has been depicted suffering from a wood injury a few times since then but it has been retconned to have been so because he "believed himself" to have it at the time( a retcon to explain a poor writers inability to keep up with a characters current abilities). He is basically living starheart energy, his image and abilities are dependent on his state of mind and belief in himself, when he feels old he looks old, when he feels weak he is weak. When he thinks he has a weakness to wood, he does but when he doesn't he has none.

In any case Dormammu Wins. Even an Alan Scot fanboy like me will admit that.

#3 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@joeagentofhand1:

for the sake of this battle there are no trees or wood related products in the area

That part of the statement isn't needed. Alan hasn't had a weakness to wood for some time. Not since the sentinel upgrade in the 80's. He has been depicted suffering from a wood injury a few times since then but it has been retconned to have been so because he "believed himself" to have it at the time( a retcon to explain a poor writers inability to keep up with a characters current abilities). He is basically living starheart energy, his image and abilities are dependent on his state of mind and belief in himself, when he feels old he looks old, when he feels weak he is weak. When he thinks he has a weakness to wood, he does but when he doesn't he has none.

In any case Dormammu Wins. Even an Alan Scot fanboy like me will admit that.

I disagree.

Galactus beat Dormammu in his own realm.

I feel that Alan could take this with the proper level of power.

#4 Posted by beatboks1 (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme: OP specifically says NOT bloodlusted. Therefore he's not getting the full level of the Starhearts power. That also means that at least part of him is containing the starheart while fighting Dormammu. I'd like to know how he does BOTH.

#5 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

@greenteaforme: OP specifically says NOT bloodlusted. Therefore he's not getting the full level of the Starhearts power. That also means that at least part of him is containing the starheart while fighting Dormammu. I'd like to know how he does BOTH.

I'm assuming it's not taking place in Dormammu's own realm.

I really see him having a shot at this. He's "highly motivated", so he's going to be stronger than a normal run.

#6 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu easily.

#7 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@beatboks1 said:

@joeagentofhand1:

for the sake of this battle there are no trees or wood related products in the area

That part of the statement isn't needed. Alan hasn't had a weakness to wood for some time. Not since the sentinel upgrade in the 80's. He has been depicted suffering from a wood injury a few times since then but it has been retconned to have been so because he "believed himself" to have it at the time( a retcon to explain a poor writers inability to keep up with a characters current abilities). He is basically living starheart energy, his image and abilities are dependent on his state of mind and belief in himself, when he feels old he looks old, when he feels weak he is weak. When he thinks he has a weakness to wood, he does but when he doesn't he has none.

In any case Dormammu Wins. Even an Alan Scot fanboy like me will admit that.

I disagree.

Galactus beat Dormammu in his own realm.

I feel that Alan could take this with the proper level of power.

When has Galactus defeated Dormammu in his own realm?

#8 Posted by capall2 (1427 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

Dormammu easily.

approved...

#9 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: So are you saying that without the bloodlust, Alan would be to restrained keeping the star heart in check to produce enough to defeat Dormammu?

#10 Posted by Moonchilde (1601 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@beatboks1 said:

@joeagentofhand1:

for the sake of this battle there are no trees or wood related products in the area

That part of the statement isn't needed. Alan hasn't had a weakness to wood for some time. Not since the sentinel upgrade in the 80's. He has been depicted suffering from a wood injury a few times since then but it has been retconned to have been so because he "believed himself" to have it at the time( a retcon to explain a poor writers inability to keep up with a characters current abilities). He is basically living starheart energy, his image and abilities are dependent on his state of mind and belief in himself, when he feels old he looks old, when he feels weak he is weak. When he thinks he has a weakness to wood, he does but when he doesn't he has none.

In any case Dormammu Wins. Even an Alan Scot fanboy like me will admit that.

I disagree.

Galactus beat Dormammu in his own realm.

I feel that Alan could take this with the proper level of power.

I can't recall when Dormammu fought Galactus in the Dark Dimension, I think you might be confusing Dormammu with Mephisto. Even if this did happen though, I certainly wouldn't consider loosing to freaking Galactus as a bad showing.

The Dread Lord should take this one.

#11 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

@beatboks1 said:

@greenteaforme: OP specifically says NOT bloodlusted. Therefore he's not getting the full level of the Starhearts power. That also means that at least part of him is containing the starheart while fighting Dormammu. I'd like to know how he does BOTH.

I'm assuming it's not taking place in Dormammu's own realm.

I really see him having a shot at this. He's "highly motivated", so he's going to be stronger than a normal run.

Are you confusing Mephisto with Dormammu the Eternity buster?

#12 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu for the win. I dont know much about Alan other than hes top tier as they come. Dormammu has some amazing feats from the past.

#13 Posted by beatboks1 (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

@CapitolPunishment said:

@beatboks1: So are you saying that without the bloodlust, Alan would be to restrained keeping the star heart in check to produce enough to defeat Dormammu?

All Alan's peak feats are at blood lust or near to (emotionally driven).

In Underworld unleashed (Hell's sentinel) when he fought all hell and then sealed a multiversal rift he was close to blood lusted because Neron had his wife in hell and was fighting to free her.

When fighting the dark dimensions he was stressed fighting to save his son

When facing the starheart and containing it in GL corps his entire family was at risk and he was again stressed.

When facing the starheart that had grown to a dimensional being it threatened his children and only then did he truly take control

When facing the god at the end of the JSA Run and he committed all his power it wasn't until Todd's life was endanger that he trully cut loose.

Every other showing of him performing at levels vastly over that of a normal GL (he often performs moderately over a normal GL) are when emotionally driven. His only real showings on the level of a multiversal being like Dormammu are when fully Blood lusted. Add to whihc after he was taken over by the Starheart and soloed DCU Earth in the JLA Darkest night tie in in JSA he was shown to be even more limited than ever before. having let the "beast" take control he was more committed to retaining control than ever before. As a result he could not even heal himself when his neck was broken. We're talking about a guy who can arbitrarily grow back an eye or make himself physically young or old at a whim. His concern over allowing the starheart to be let loose again meant that he would not even commit the amount of will power needed to heal his body.

Sorry for the long winded answer, but in a nutshell YES.

#14 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - - Show Bio

Even if Alan were bloodlusted or any other character for that matter, it still would result to Dormammu winning because the thing can't die.

#15 Posted by beatboks1 (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSecondOpinion said:

Even if Alan were bloodlusted or any other character for that matter, it still would result to Dormammu winning because the thing can't die.

A blood lusted Alan can't either. He's living magic energy.

#16 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

A blood lusted Alan can't either. He's living magic energy.

Since when is Alan Scott a living magic energy? Starheart is a living magical energy and Alan Scott just has it in him, that at times reforms him, make him younger but Alan himself is still just a human with a very awesome power within him. Has it ever been explained that his mortal body has died and he's just a living energy?

#17 Edited by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

I disagree.

Galactus beat Dormammu in his own realm.

I feel that Alan could take this with the proper level of power.

When did Galactus beat Dormammu in his own realm, and what the heck was Galactus doing in Dormammu's realm anyways.

Also i can't understand how is there a connection between Galactus and Alan scott??

#18 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@greenteaforme said:

I disagree.

Galactus beat Dormammu in his own realm.

I feel that Alan could take this with the proper level of power.

When did Galactus beat Dormammu in his own realm, and what the heck was Galactus doing in Dormammu's realm anyways.

Also i can't understand how is there a connection between Galactus and Alan scott??

Was thinking of Mephisto.

#19 Posted by RIKR2 (11613 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu for the win

#20 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenteaforme said:

Was thinking of Mephisto.

Oh fair enough, but what has Alan Scott and say Galactus got in common.

#21 Posted by Pokergeist (22351 posts) - - Show Bio

They both look goofy. "shrugs"

#22 Posted by greenteaforme (1826 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@greenteaforme said:

Was thinking of Mephisto.

Oh fair enough, but what has Alan Scott and say Galactus got in common.

I was thinking if Galactus could spank Dormammu (now Mephisto -_-) in his own realm, Alan Scott would have a chance in a neutral dimension, simply looking at power levels.

#23 Posted by Bo88gdan (4639 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu

#24 Posted by Onemoreposter (4099 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Sentinel upgrade was mid 90s I think. When Kyle became GL DC's mandate was that he was to be the only one with that title. I remember reading the issue where Alan tells Kyle he's the only green lantern now and takes the name Sentinel.

#25 Posted by beatboks1 (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@beatboks1 said:

A blood lusted Alan can't either. He's living magic energy.

Since when is Alan Scott a living magic energy? Starheart is a living magical energy and Alan Scott just has it in him, that at times reforms him, make him younger but Alan himself is still just a human with a very awesome power within him. Has it ever been explained that his mortal body has died and he's just a living energy?

It was explained in an issue showing him as white king (checkmate), IIRC some where around the time his eye grew back (explaining it). It was also stated in the issue/run where he was taken to the newly created realm of the starheat. The starheart said that he had recreated Alan's body when he took back the power. There were a few others but for the life of me I can't think of a single specific issue number at the moment.

#26 Posted by nickthedevil (13902 posts) - - Show Bio

Dorms takes this almost easily.

#27 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1 said:

It was explained in an issue showing him as white king (checkmate), IIRC some where around the time his eye grew back (explaining it). It was also stated in the issue/run where he was taken to the newly created realm of the starheat. The starheart said that he had recreated Alan's body when he took back the power. There were a few others but for the life of me I can't think of a single specific issue number at the moment.

I remember Starheart saying he recreated his body in The Heart of Darkness but dont remember having anything to do with him being a pure energy being. He was later re-juvinated, or whatever you called that, made younger and changed his name to Sentinel had has still drawn blood in a fight with Nero? (sorry cant remember the specific will have to look it up).

I would appreciate if you could explain in a greater detail what happened in the issue with White King, because i havent read the issue and honestly i dont even know who White King is. I am not saying you are wrong, i am just rather surprised because thus far my understand was Alan Scott is a normal guy who bonded with the starheart, however startheart itself can still be unbound and has seen in The Heart of Darkness and later in The Dark Thing. So i was of the opinion that he's human but has in him the living essence of all the magic the guardians could find. You obviously know a lot more about Alan Scott, like i have previously stated i know Alan Scott from him various appearences in Green Lantern series.

#28 Posted by XiiX (9437 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu.

#29 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - - Show Bio

Alan Scott and the Starheart would be the equivalent of Thor and Mjolnir, therefore Alan has chances against Thor.

Where Odin or Eternity doesn't stand a chance against Dormammu, Alan Scott doesn't stand any chance at all.

#30 Edited by beatboks1 (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: the white king is the highest rank of the organization checkmate. Alan held that position for a while and was replaced by Micheal Holt ( Mr Terrific). during his checkmate appearances it was explained that his extensive use of the " green flame" ( that was what the good magic that had been gathered by the guardians with the evil magic called itself- it was also stated that knowing the evil magic would ine day break free it broke itself away from the starheart to find a champion to be ready to fight it. in this period Alan always referred to the power as the Green Flame and corrected people like Mordu on the distinction when he called it starhear) and internalizing its power had made it a part of him. It was also stated that his continued use had changed him to living magical energy and that was why he sometimes appeared young and other times old, that his form was dependent on his perception of himself. it was shown that the reason he had lost bis eye ( and continued to have it lost) was over the guilt of the actions that cost agents their lives. once he got over the guilt his eye was simply back again, he never used his power to heal it it was simply there. it was also stated that he only had the weakness to wood because he believed be did, if he chose not to than he wouldn't. I wish I could think of the title and issue numbers its from, but ATM im drawing a blank.

#31 Posted by Nefarious (22888 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu wins with ease.

#32 Posted by Azathoth_The_Dread_Sleeper (597 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu.

#33 Posted by Chronus (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu.

#34 Edited by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: Great breakdown there and in no way long-winded, thank you for taking that time to explain. That was exactly what I was thinking when I read your first post, I really only asked you so that you would elaborate more so the readers would understand Scott and his powers/power limits a bit better. @TheSecondOpinion: The comparison you used in your post just demonstrated how little you know about Scott and the star heart. @beatboks1: @Killemall: The last time Alan Scott being pure star heart energy was briefly mentioned in JLA #57: The rise of Eclipso (see next post). Alan was explaining that the star heart energy that still remained in him (he was cut off from the star heart at this point) is what was keeping the remainder of the emerald city together. He stated when that energy was used up the emerald city would cease to exist, as would he. Hope that helps a bit with the specific question.

#35 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio
#36 Posted by TERMINATORXX (3899 posts) - - Show Bio

@jeanroygrant said:

Dormammu easily.

#37 Posted by ShootingNova (18988 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu stomps.

#38 Posted by crabtree (1613 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu

#39 Posted by beatboks1 (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

@CapitolPunishment said:

The last time Alan Scott being pure star heart energy was briefly mentioned in JLA #57: The rise of Eclipso (see next post). Alan was explaining that the star heart energy that still remained in him (he was cut off from the star heart at this point) is what was keeping the remainder of the emerald city together. He stated when that energy was used up the emerald city would cease to exist, as would he. Hope that helps a bit with the specific question.

Thanks for that, I completely forgot that issue and statement. killemall replied to you so you would get yet another instance of it showing he is pure magic energy. Also as I replied on my Iphone I couldn't "@" you properly.

#40 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

#41 Posted by CapitolPunishment (2303 posts) - - Show Bio

@beatboks1: No problem, anytime man, you have done more than your share of supplying scans and other great info. I completely understand, phone posting sucks for me to, that is why my post was a giant paragraph and I had to make a second post to add the scan. Not sure if Killemall got the reply or not for the same reason you mentioned, he also may have just ignored it, :P.