#1 Posted by OmniBro (2 posts) - - Show Bio

They are all at their max power

Location: deep space

Win by KO or death

Dormammu

and

Onslaught

VS

The Phoenix Force

#2 Posted by New_World_Order (13516 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump.

#3 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

The force itself is powerful but vulnerable without human host.

I think Force vs Dormammu is a pretty close match up (at full power i am assuming it takes place in Dark Dimension) Onslaught while not a heavy weight might be able to tilt the balance.

#4 Posted by Shavo (2061 posts) - - Show Bio

a full power dormammu can take this easy

#5 Posted by ImmortalKilla (16 posts) - - Show Bio

Um, Dormammu alone should be enough, Onslaught would just be floor filler.

#6 Posted by Caionsouza (134 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu solos

#7 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu.

The battle should be the other way around. The Phoenix, Onslaught and Baron Mordo vs Dormammu.

#8 Posted by hyperbeing (409 posts) - - Show Bio

give me scans that suggest dormammu is stronger the nthe phoenix.

Online
#9 Posted by Bo88gdan (4638 posts) - - Show Bio

Dormammu and Onslaught Ftw

#10 Posted by hyperbeing (409 posts) - - Show Bio

phoenix bests onslaught cause onslughts best feat is creating a star . dormmau is the only true challenge and if teir all at full power then we are talking white phoenix

Online
#11 Posted by Qpzmg (976 posts) - - Show Bio

Team 1.

#12 Posted by NeonGameWave (8982 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

#13 Posted by Deadgod (1500 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins

#14 Posted by hyperbeing (409 posts) - - Show Bio

phoenix slaughters onslaught hands down . and white phoenix can most definetly beat dormammu

Online
#15 Posted by Alyssabird (1363 posts) - - Show Bio

My understanding is that Dormammu is a Sky Father Level being; with this in mind, he shouldn't come anywhere close to the force.

#16 Posted by hyperbeing (409 posts) - - Show Bio

well dormammu is higher then skylevel and he has fought Giraud phoenix but he is weaker ten Rachel phoenix who is weaker then jean grey phoenix.

Online
#17 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperbeing said:

well dormammu is higher then skylevel and he has fought Giraud phoenix but he is weaker ten Rachel phoenix who is weaker then jean grey phoenix.

Dormammu was amped at that time, also while Phoenix did have backing from GOTG, he was never actually KOed in the fight.

#18 Posted by hyperbeing (409 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: i see thank you . so then phoenix wins right?

Online
#19 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperbeing said:

@Killemall: i see thank you . so then phoenix wins right?

I am more leaning towards team winning. The way i see it Phoenix and Dormammu are very evenly match, however as this is the Force Itself and hostless, the force is vulnerable to being harmed (although does have massive powers).

Dormammu is pretty powerful, and at full power he would be a very close match for Phoenix.

Then we have Onslaught at max powers, that franklin and X-man inside of him, which is till formidable.

Force could likely take either of them alone, still unsure to whether the force can actually beat Dormammu at full power, but 2 on 1 is different.

#20 Posted by laflux (17548 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

The force itself is powerful but vulnerable without human host.

I think Force vs Dormammu is a pretty close match up (at full power i am assuming it takes place in Dark Dimension) Onslaught while not a heavy weight might be able to tilt the balance.

Even if Onslaught has Franklin?

#21 Posted by hyperbeing (409 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: i see but this is the force at full power right dosnt that mean white phoenix . and how strong is the force at full power i mean in a what if it destroyed a universe .

Online
#22 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

Even if Onslaught has Franklin?

Yes, Onslaught couldnt really harness Franklin's power properly. His best feat was creating an extra sun, given Franklin, with help of Manthing as a conduit created a nexus of countless realities, and has created universe and pocket universe on his own, that does seem like a fraction of his power, nor does that seem very treatning to either Phoenix or Dormammu, at least to me.

Franklin as a kid could potentially take Phoenix Force should he fight at his full potential, but then i dont think Onslaught or Dormammu would have stood better chance against him either.

#23 Posted by Killemall (18607 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperbeing said:

@Killemall: i see but this is the force at full power right dosnt that mean white phoenix . and how strong is the force at full power i mean in a what if it destroyed a universe .

Force at full power would be the Flame Raptor we see, initially i thought the flame raptor was just like a M-body of the force, after having asked Tom Brevroot, editor in chief of marvel comics, and than re-reading most of the bios, it seems the Flame Raptor is the full Phoenix Force.

#24 Edited by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@Alyssabird said:

My understanding is that Dormammu is a Sky Father Level being; with this in mind, he shouldn't come anywhere close to the force.

Much Much Much higher than SkyFather.... Skyfather's are below Elder Gods and Elder Gods are below Eternity but they can affect the fabrics of Eternity which Skyfathers can not.

Skyfathers are HIGH TIER Pantheons

Pantheons...

Pantheons..

Pantheons.

(That was supposed to echo.)

#25 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Alyssabird said:

My understanding is that Dormammu is a Sky Father Level being; with this in mind, he shouldn't come anywhere close to the force.

Much Much Much higher than SkyFather.... Skyfather's are below Elder Gods and Elder Gods are below Eternity but they can affect the fabrics of Eternity which Skyfathers can not.

Skyfathers are HIGH TIER Pantheons

Pantheons...

Pantheons..

Pantheons.

(That was supposed to echo.)

Is the implication that Dormammu has the power of a semi-"elder god" like Agomotto?
#26 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Alyssabird said:

My understanding is that Dormammu is a Sky Father Level being; with this in mind, he shouldn't come anywhere close to the force.

Much Much Much higher than SkyFather.... Skyfather's are below Elder Gods and Elder Gods are below Eternity but they can affect the fabrics of Eternity which Skyfathers can not.

Skyfathers are HIGH TIER Pantheons

Pantheons...

Pantheons..

Pantheons.

(That was supposed to echo.)

Is the implication that Dormammu has the power of a semi-"elder god" like Agomotto?

Yeah! And and besides, Dormammu created his own version of Odin before. Agamotto was Dormammu's 1st nemesis during the 1st invasion of Eternity. Then it was passed down to Ancient One while Agamotto ascended into the All Seeing.

There is only One Dormammu and One Agamotto in the entire Omniverse

But there are like hundreds to thousands to infinite different kinds of Odins per each Universe of the multiverse.

#27 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Alyssabird said:

My understanding is that Dormammu is a Sky Father Level being; with this in mind, he shouldn't come anywhere close to the force.

Much Much Much higher than SkyFather.... Skyfather's are below Elder Gods and Elder Gods are below Eternity but they can affect the fabrics of Eternity which Skyfathers can not.

Skyfathers are HIGH TIER Pantheons

Pantheons...

Pantheons..

Pantheons.

(That was supposed to echo.)

Is the implication that Dormammu has the power of a semi-"elder god" like Agomotto?

Yeah! And and besides, Dormammu created his own version of Odin before. Agamotto was Dormammu's 1st nemesis during the 1st invasion of Eternity. Then it was passed down to Ancient One while Agamotto ascended into the All Seeing.

There is only One Dormammu and One Agamotto in the entire Omniverse

But there are like hundreds to thousands to infinite different kinds of Odins per each Universe of the multiverse.

Do you believe that Dormammu could defeat Shuma Gorath? Cyttorak? And Elder God like Gaia? possibly a celestial or 2 (one at a time)?
#28 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Alyssabird said:

My understanding is that Dormammu is a Sky Father Level being; with this in mind, he shouldn't come anywhere close to the force.

Much Much Much higher than SkyFather.... Skyfather's are below Elder Gods and Elder Gods are below Eternity but they can affect the fabrics of Eternity which Skyfathers can not.

Skyfathers are HIGH TIER Pantheons

Pantheons...

Pantheons..

Pantheons.

(That was supposed to echo.)

Is the implication that Dormammu has the power of a semi-"elder god" like Agomotto?

Yeah! And and besides, Dormammu created his own version of Odin before. Agamotto was Dormammu's 1st nemesis during the 1st invasion of Eternity. Then it was passed down to Ancient One while Agamotto ascended into the All Seeing.

There is only One Dormammu and One Agamotto in the entire Omniverse

But there are like hundreds to thousands to infinite different kinds of Odins per each Universe of the multiverse.

Do you believe that Dormammu could defeat Shuma Gorath? Cyttorak? And Elder God like Gaia? possibly a celestial or 2 (one at a time)?
  1. No, Shuma is a devourer. He'll siphon Dormammu's power just being close to him. Also, Dormammu is one of Shuma's devotees.
  2. Same with Cyttorak... Cyttorak would negate Dormammu's power just being near his presence. Dormammu also worships Cyttorak for power.
  3. Dormammu could beat Gaea. (don't confuse Gaea's power level with Oshtur: Oshtur ascended as an extradimension entity... Gaea is still in the lower levels of reality.)
  4. Dormammu can beat certain Celestials depending if we are not talking about PIS Scathan. If we cross Scathan out. Dormammu at his highest could probably take on the whole race. (Celestials are not extradimensionsal: It took thousands to push Ego back into the Bioverse)
  5. Dormammu/Eternity>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> times 1 million SuperEgo
#29 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Alyssabird said:

My understanding is that Dormammu is a Sky Father Level being; with this in mind, he shouldn't come anywhere close to the force.

Much Much Much higher than SkyFather.... Skyfather's are below Elder Gods and Elder Gods are below Eternity but they can affect the fabrics of Eternity which Skyfathers can not.

Skyfathers are HIGH TIER Pantheons

Pantheons...

Pantheons..

Pantheons.

(That was supposed to echo.)

Is the implication that Dormammu has the power of a semi-"elder god" like Agomotto?

Yeah! And and besides, Dormammu created his own version of Odin before. Agamotto was Dormammu's 1st nemesis during the 1st invasion of Eternity. Then it was passed down to Ancient One while Agamotto ascended into the All Seeing.

There is only One Dormammu and One Agamotto in the entire Omniverse

But there are like hundreds to thousands to infinite different kinds of Odins per each Universe of the multiverse.

Do you believe that Dormammu could defeat Shuma Gorath? Cyttorak? And Elder God like Gaia? possibly a celestial or 2 (one at a time)?
  1. No, Shuma is a devourer. He'll siphon Dormammu's power just being close to him. Also, Dormammu is one of Shuma's devotees.
  2. Same with Cyttorak... Cyttorak would negate Dormammu's power just being near his presence. Dormammu also worships Cyttorak for power.
  3. Dormammu could beat Gaea. (don't confuse Gaea's power level with Oshtur: Oshtur ascended as an extradimension entity... Gaea is still in the lower levels of reality.)
  4. Dormammu can beat certain Celestials depending if we are not talking about PIS Scathan. If we cross Scathan out. Dormammu at his highest could probably take on the whole race. (Celestials are not extradimensionsal: It took thousands to push Ego back into the Bioverse)
  5. Dormammu/Eternity>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> times 1 million SuperEgo
 
 
 Didn't Doom defeat Dormammu when he was Sorcerer Supreme?  If Dormammu is practically living magic could he not redirect Chthon or Cyts power...?
#30 Edited by hyperbeing (409 posts) - - Show Bio

I see but I am still confused on how powerful the phoenix really is I mean some people say it is a multiversal threat I hate how the phoenix power is never been properly shown I mean in a what if a weakened phoenix stalemates a hungered galactus and wipes the universe . then rachal with phoenix shown extremely powerful feats . and then there was the nekron event he was able to match rachal even though he possessed a portion of the phoenix while she possessed the phoenix is self. and then their was the fact phoenix projectged the lighthouse tower across the multiverse.

Online
#31 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Alyssabird said:

My understanding is that Dormammu is a Sky Father Level being; with this in mind, he shouldn't come anywhere close to the force.

Much Much Much higher than SkyFather.... Skyfather's are below Elder Gods and Elder Gods are below Eternity but they can affect the fabrics of Eternity which Skyfathers can not.

Skyfathers are HIGH TIER Pantheons

Pantheons...

Pantheons..

Pantheons.

(That was supposed to echo.)

Is the implication that Dormammu has the power of a semi-"elder god" like Agomotto?

Yeah! And and besides, Dormammu created his own version of Odin before. Agamotto was Dormammu's 1st nemesis during the 1st invasion of Eternity. Then it was passed down to Ancient One while Agamotto ascended into the All Seeing.

There is only One Dormammu and One Agamotto in the entire Omniverse

But there are like hundreds to thousands to infinite different kinds of Odins per each Universe of the multiverse.

Do you believe that Dormammu could defeat Shuma Gorath? Cyttorak? And Elder God like Gaia? possibly a celestial or 2 (one at a time)?
  1. No, Shuma is a devourer. He'll siphon Dormammu's power just being close to him. Also, Dormammu is one of Shuma's devotees.
  2. Same with Cyttorak... Cyttorak would negate Dormammu's power just being near his presence. Dormammu also worships Cyttorak for power.
  3. Dormammu could beat Gaea. (don't confuse Gaea's power level with Oshtur: Oshtur ascended as an extradimension entity... Gaea is still in the lower levels of reality.)
  4. Dormammu can beat certain Celestials depending if we are not talking about PIS Scathan. If we cross Scathan out. Dormammu at his highest could probably take on the whole race. (Celestials are not extradimensionsal: It took thousands to push Ego back into the Bioverse)
  5. Dormammu/Eternity>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> times 1 million SuperEgo
Didn't Doom defeat Dormammu when he was Sorcerer Supreme? If Dormammu is practically living magic could he not redirect Chthon or Cyts power...?

Yes, Doom did beat Dormammu... He trapped him inside of the Purple Gem... Or... Was it the Crimson Gem... Hmmm...

#32 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@hyperbeing said:

I see but I am still confused on how powerful the phoenix really is I mean some people say it is a multiversal threat

Phoenix IS a multiversal threat, but so is Dormammu...

However... Phoenix can only affect the entire multiverse through the M'Kron Crystal's White Hot Room.

Onslaught? Meh... He's probably in par to a skyfather.

#33 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@hyperbeing said:

I see but I am still confused on how powerful the phoenix really is I mean some people say it is a multiversal threat

Phoenix IS a multiversal threat, but so is Dormammu...

However... Phoenix can only affect the entire multiverse through the M'Kron Crystal's White Hot Room.

Onslaught? Meh... He's probably in par to a skyfather.

By this logic, completely off topic. Which Doom absorbing Nightmare (while not SS), then as Sorcerer Supreme defeating Dormammu, could he defeat an avatar like the Dark Phoenix? in your opinion.
#34 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@hyperbeing said:

I see but I am still confused on how powerful the phoenix really is I mean some people say it is a multiversal threat

Phoenix IS a multiversal threat, but so is Dormammu...

However... Phoenix can only affect the entire multiverse through the M'Kron Crystal's White Hot Room.

Onslaught? Meh... He's probably in par to a skyfather.

By this logic, completely off topic. Which Doom absorbing Nightmare (while not SS), then as Sorcerer Supreme defeating Dormammu, could he defeat an avatar like the Dark Phoenix? in your opinion.

When Nightmare defeated Strange, he captured Eternity and was ampped. (The more people who sleep and dream makes Nightmare more powerful: In the two issues when Nightmare captured Eternity; Eternity was "asleep".)

So everyone in the whole universe was asleep save for Dr. Strange and Juggernaut....

Dr. Doom defeated a very weakened Nightmare. (A lot of people were awake)

But to answer your question; Yes, Doom can obtain or contain Phoenix Force just like he did with Dormammu.

#35 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@hyperbeing said:

I see but I am still confused on how powerful the phoenix really is I mean some people say it is a multiversal threat

Phoenix IS a multiversal threat, but so is Dormammu...

However... Phoenix can only affect the entire multiverse through the M'Kron Crystal's White Hot Room.

Onslaught? Meh... He's probably in par to a skyfather.

By this logic, completely off topic. Which Doom absorbing Nightmare (while not SS), then as Sorcerer Supreme defeating Dormammu, could he defeat an avatar like the Dark Phoenix? in your opinion.

When Nightmare defeated Strange, he captured Eternity and was ampped. (The more people who sleep and dream makes Nightmare more powerful: In the two issues when Nightmare captured Eternity; Eternity was "asleep".)

So everyone in the whole universe was asleep save for Dr. Strange and Juggernaut....

Dr. Doom defeated a very weakened Nightmare. (A lot of people were awake)

But to answer your question; Yes, Doom can obtain or contain Phoenix Force just like he did with Dormammu.

Eternity sleeping was stupid lol. Anyways Doom had a gem that amped Merllins power to help him defeat Dormammu. It was green like you said. And okay just wondering. It seems like Doom could absorb Dormammu, fight the celestials, use their tech and his new power to siphon energies from the Chthon then fight the Phoenix force. Haha seems Doom-esque. I heard Galactus defeated some Celestials that had to merge to defeat him, but the elder god gaea was afraid the Celestial would destroy earth because of some power. Anyways Team win this. Thanks for the responses.
#36 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3575 posts) - - Show Bio

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@Supermanwithatan01 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

@hyperbeing said:

I see but I am still confused on how powerful the phoenix really is I mean some people say it is a multiversal threat

Phoenix IS a multiversal threat, but so is Dormammu...

However... Phoenix can only affect the entire multiverse through the M'Kron Crystal's White Hot Room.

Onslaught? Meh... He's probably in par to a skyfather.

By this logic, completely off topic. Which Doom absorbing Nightmare (while not SS), then as Sorcerer Supreme defeating Dormammu, could he defeat an avatar like the Dark Phoenix? in your opinion.

When Nightmare defeated Strange, he captured Eternity and was ampped. (The more people who sleep and dream makes Nightmare more powerful: In the two issues when Nightmare captured Eternity; Eternity was "asleep".)

So everyone in the whole universe was asleep save for Dr. Strange and Juggernaut....

Dr. Doom defeated a very weakened Nightmare. (A lot of people were awake)

But to answer your question; Yes, Doom can obtain or contain Phoenix Force just like he did with Dormammu.

Eternity sleeping was stupid lol. Anyways Doom had a gem that amped Merllins power to help him defeat Dormammu. It was green like you said. And okay just wondering. It seems like Doom could absorb Dormammu, fight the celestials, use their tech and his new power to siphon energies from the Chthon then fight the Phoenix force. Haha seems Doom-esque. I heard Galactus defeated some Celestials that had to merge to defeat him, but the elder god gaea was afraid the Celestial would destroy earth because of some power. Anyways Team win this. Thanks for the responses.

Oooohhh... That's riight! You are a Doomster!

There is another Doomster here that is well versed in Doom~natics. I believe the user name is "MarvelRulesTheWorld". There could be under_scores, I'm not sure.

#37 Posted by Supermanwithatan01 (4029 posts) - - Show Bio
@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning
 
Haha yeah I just bought collectors editions/hard copies of: FF Master of Doom, FF Books of Doom, FF Unthinkable, Doctor Strange and Doctor Doom Triumph and Torment, Collected issue of What if: Doctor Doom became Sorcerer Supreme (1993) and I have bought "What if Dr Doom had kept the Beyonder power" as well as "Secret Wars Omnibus" haha. He's my fav character. 
 
My Top 5 favorites:
1) Doctor Doom
2) Wally West Flash
3) Batman (Lol Bruce)
4) Iron Man or Dr. Strange (depends on the story haha)
5) Kyle Rayner