This is H/P/ Doomsday, 8th day juggernaut, and General Eiling at the peak of his power. Can this trio of team killers take out the guy who made the JLA/JSA his b*%ches?
the team should win here, u r using h/p dd and 8th day juggy which should be more than enough physically and despero's telepathy wouldn't be useful in this battle
Despero is outmuscled, but after taking a few punches i don't think he'd be against mind controlling eiling and turning the tide of the battle, then removing juggernauts helmet...
"Despero is outmuscled, but after taking a few punches i don't think he'd be against mind controlling eiling and turning the tide of the battle, then removing juggernauts helmet... "
this is 8th day juggy tho, it wouldn't be easy removing his helmet at all, despero still has to deal with dd and shaggyman which also which couldn't be defeated by jl and since he is a mindless beast telepathy woudn't work on him either
"Despero is outmuscled, but after taking a few punches i don't think he'd be agt tainst mind controlling eiling and turning the tide of the battle, then removing juggernauts helmet... "
this is 8th day juggy tho, it wouldn't be easy removing his helmet at all, despero still has to deal with dd and shaggyman which also which couldn't be defeated by jl and since he is a mindless beast telepathy woudn't work on him either "
I don't know too much about 8th day juggernaut, I'll go look for stuff. but the main think I could see despero doing is taking over shaggyman who shouldn't be mindless, he's being controlled by general eiling no?
"Despero is outmuscled, but after taking a few punches i don't think he'd be agt tainst mind controlling eiling and turning the tide of the battle, then removing juggernauts helmet... "
this is 8th day juggy tho, it wouldn't be easy removing his helmet at all, despero still has to deal with dd and shaggyman which also which couldn't be defeated by jl and since he is a mindless beast telepathy woudn't work on him either "
I don't know too much about 8th day juggernaut, I'll go look for stuff. but the main think I could see despero doing is taking over shaggyman who shouldn't be mindless, he's being controlled by general eiling no? "
well mindless meaning he will attact everyone in sight and can not be controlled, heck he'll probably attact his own team mates too, lmao
@capall: Eiling has been hypnotized by Batman, Despero should be able to control him. Eight day Juggernaut seems to be able to be harmed with mental assault. Despero could take over Eiling and have him occupy Doomsday, then assault Juggs mentally while he BFR's him into space. Then again, If Despero doesn't take control of Eiling in time he could easily go down. Physically he isn't a match for all three of these. I think his stamina will hold out long enough for him to abandon physical victory and go for mental victory.
I think they should take him, quite easily I might add. Shaggyman and Doomsday should be in his league strngth vise, maybe above him. I'm not sure about Eiling's resistance to telepathy, so Despero could potentially use him against others, but barring that, they can take him down.
@King Saturn: The team is vastly more powerful in terms of physical force, but Despero has a number of advantages that could allow him to take this fight if he plays his cards right
First is flight, these Titans all lack the ability to fly. Despero's flight speed is comparable to the Martians
Second is Speed. He might not be the flash, but Despero is pretty fast, he can tag flash on the run and has shown good combat speed as well
Third is Mental abilities, which include, telekinesis, illusions, mind control, and telepathy greater than that of the Martians Eiling has shown a vulnerability to hypnosis, Despero shouldn't have a problem controlling him
And as I mentioned earlier Juggernaut could be mentally assualted
I think Despero's stamina and durability, a long with his flight and speed advantage should allow him to recover from an initial physical confrontation and utilize his mental weapons. The person with the strength to actually pin down Despero would probably be the General but he also happens to be the one that Despero could control. If General pins him, Despero will have no choice but to control him.
@vuviper: In the case of Bedlam, I'd rank her as a far better psychic then Despero. 1. Because of her magical base, and 2. She was able to get through Cains helmet. Let's not forget that Cain also knocked her around quite a bit, and her assault did nothing to phase Cain in the slightest.
" @King Saturn: The team is vastly more powerful in terms of physical force, but Despero has a number of advantages that could allow him to take this fight if he plays his cards right
First is flight, these Titans all lack the ability to fly. Despero's flight speed is comparable to the Martians
Second is Speed. He might not be the flash, but Despero is pretty fast, he can tag flash on the run and has shown good combat speed as well
Third is Mental abilities, which include, telekinesis, illusions, mind control, and telepathy greater than that of the Martians Eiling has shown a vulnerability to hypnosis, Despero shouldn't have a problem controlling him
And as I mentioned earlier Juggernaut could be mentally assualted I think Despero's stamina and durability, a long with his flight and speed advantage should allow him to recover from an initial physical confrontation and utilize his mental weapons. The person with the strength to actually pin down Despero would probably be the General but he also happens to be the one that Despero could control. If General pins him, Despero will have no choice but to control him. "
keep in mind that Flight and Super Speed has never been an issue against HP Doomsday... Doomsday has handled mutliple bricks who could Fly by himself... as well as Superman commented on how fast Doomsday was... so I dont know if Despero has a speed factor over him at least... maybe Juggernaut or Shaggy Man... now another thing to consider is the fact that unless Despero thinks to immediately use Mental Attacks which may not even work on Juggs or Doomsday... then Despero will easily get overpowered immediately... by Doomsday and Juggernaut... and also keep in mind that HP Doomsday seems to be damn near unstoppable to almost anytype of attack... I mean he later on showed the ability to withstand the Omega Beams as well as blasts from Imperiex... I dont know how the Mental Attacks would work on him... but as I said before... its 3 Powerhouse Bricks here... Doomsday may not need to go full blown at Despero since he has so much muscle here to help him...
" @vuviper: In the case of Bedlam, I'd rank her as a far better psychic then Despero. 1. Because of her magical base, and 2. She was able to get through Cains helmet. Let's not forget that Cain also knocked her around quite a bit, and her assault did nothing to phase Cain in the slightest. "
But what I was saying was that it could give him time to BFR juggs. Um about her being superior to Despero I'm not sure. I admit I have very little knowledge about the strength of Marvel telepaths unfortunately. but I have heard from people whose knowledge I respect very much that MM is superior to xavier and he was shown to be able to hold his own against her mentally.
Despero has bested MM mentally on numerous occasions. including once when he bested both Aquaman and MM telepathically.
ntrol him. "keep in mind that Flight and Super Speed has never been an issue against HP Doomsday... Doomsday has handled mutliple bricks who could Fly by himself... as well as Superman commented on how fast Doomsday was... so I dont know if Despero has a speed factor over him at least... maybe Juggernaut or Shaggy Man... now another thing to consider is the fact that unless Despero thinks to immediately use Mental Attacks which may not even work on Juggs or Doomsday... then Despero will easily get overpowered immediately... by Doomsday and Juggernaut... and also keep in mind that HP Doomsday seems to be damn near unstoppable to almost anytype of attack... I mean he later on showed the ability to withstand the Omega Beams as well as blasts from Imperiex... I dont know how the Mental Attacks would work on him... but as I said before... its 3 Powerhouse Bricks here... Doomsday may not need to go full blown at Despero since he has so much muscle here to help him... "
I agree Doomsday is probably the one closest to him in speed. But I'm not saying that his speed and flight allows him to win offensively, but gives him enough of a defense advantage to recover from an initial physical confrontation and launch a psychic assault. Despero has been shown to be able to take a lot of physical punishment
So I don't think it's not unlikely for him to last long enough to go the his third eye. I'm not saying that he'd win for sure. I just think he has a much better chance than it seems people are giving him. He's more versatile than his opponents and he can turn his enemies to his allies.
@King Saturn said:
" the thing is though... Despero wouldnt be able to get to Juggernaut physically because of Juggernauts Force Field... "
I forgot about that, would Despero be able to lift the ground Juggernaut is standing on? Also does his force field require concentration or thought?
" @vuviper: In the case of Bedlam, I'd rank her as a far better psychic then Despero. 1. Because of her magical base, and 2. She was able to get through Cains helmet. Let's not forget that Cain also knocked her around quite a bit, and her assault did nothing to phase Cain in the slightest. "
But what I was saying was that it could give him time to BFR juggs. Um about her being superior to Despero I'm not sure. I admit I have very little knowledge about the strength of Marvel telepaths unfortunately. but I have heard from people whose knowledge I respect very much that MM is superior to xavier and he was shown to be able to hold his own against her mentally.
Despero has bested MM mentally on numerous occasions. including once when he bested both Aquaman and MM telepathically. "
I've seen nothing MM has done that Xavier couldn't match if he let loose.
ntrol him. "keep in mind that Flight and Super Speed has never been an issue against HP Doomsday... Doomsday has handled mutliple bricks who could Fly by himself... as well as Superman commented on how fast Doomsday was... so I dont know if Despero has a speed factor over him at least... maybe Juggernaut or Shaggy Man... now another thing to consider is the fact that unless Despero thinks to immediately use Mental Attacks which may not even work on Juggs or Doomsday... then Despero will easily get overpowered immediately... by Doomsday and Juggernaut... and also keep in mind that HP Doomsday seems to be damn near unstoppable to almost anytype of attack... I mean he later on showed the ability to withstand the Omega Beams as well as blasts from Imperiex... I dont know how the Mental Attacks would work on him... but as I said before... its 3 Powerhouse Bricks here... Doomsday may not need to go full blown at Despero since he has so much muscle here to help him... "
I agree Doomsday is probably the one closest to him in speed. But I'm not saying that his speed and flight allows him to win offensively, but gives him enough of a defense advantage to recover from an initial physical confrontation and launch a psychic assault. Despero has been shown to be able to take a lot of physical punishment So I don't think it's not unlikely for him to last long enough to go the his third eye. I'm not saying that he'd win for sure. I just think he has a much better chance than it seems people are giving him. He's more versatile than his opponents and he can turn his enemies to his allies. "
the problem is none of the people Despero fought in the Comic here are really as much of a threat as ShaggyMan or HP Doomsday have been... remember also that Shaggy Man took a lot of punishment from the JLA as well... and he himself was beating those bastards back like a bad habit by himself... add on how much hell Doomsday has given multiple DC Powerhouse Heroes... then I think the overall physical confrontation of Juggernaut, Doomsday, ShaggyMan will be a little too much for Despero to handle... I dont think Despero will get a shot to use his Mental Attacks effectively here... not unless he could immediately BFR one of them... but I dont know who he could get out of the way to make the fight easier for him... not when all three are coming at him at once...
@Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind.
Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no?
@King Saturn: Remember Despero isn't using his other abilities in those scans, I just wanted to show that he can take punishment, he should also be able to avoid most blows from juggernaut and also has his rarely utilized TK abilities to keep him from being pounded by multiple people at once. If he is somehow overwhelmed he'd immediately go for the mental attacks and I don't think the three of them would take him out fast enough. I will agree with you on this: If Despero fails to control shaggyman for some reason (and is unable to BFR juggs) there is no way he can defeat these three.
And the eighth day exemplars aren't chumps either. Juggernaut took all of them down by his lonesome, and it was only in their second encounter when they managed to blast his helmet off could they put him down.
its simply too much for Despero to do here... he would have to know immediately to effect Shaggy Man with Mental Attacks which is possible... but you still have Doomsday and Juggernaut to deal with... and we really dont know if Despero can effect Juggernaut with Mental Attacks as long as Juggs has the Helmet on... and who knows if he can effect Doomsday being it is Doomsday seems almost Mindless in sense...
" @Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind. Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no? "
Bedlam and Despero are comparable, yes. But the only reason I think Bedlam was able to affect Cain was because of her mystical background.
@King Saturn: I don't think he'd have to know, he could attempt to take each of them at the same time. Despero is fully capable of using his mental powers while engaged in a physical confrontation. You're right I don't know if mental attacks would affect Juggs, but from what evidence I have seen I would think it would.
@Lance Uppercut said:
" @vuviper said:
" @Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind. Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no? "
Bedlam and Despero are comparable, yes. But the only reason I think Bedlam was able to affect Cain was because of her mystical background. "
If that is the case, Despero's chances decrease dramatically, but still this fight is much more likely to be Doomsday and Juggernaut vs Despero and Eiling than it is to be Doomsday, Juggernaut, and Eiling vs Despero
" @Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind.
Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no?
@King Saturn: Remember Despero isn't using his other abilities in those scans, I just wanted to show that he can take punishment, he should also be able to avoid most blows from juggernaut and also has his rarely utilized TK abilities to keep him from being pounded by multiple people at once. If he is somehow overwhelmed he'd immediately go for the mental attacks and I don't think the three of them would take him out fast enough. I will agree with you on this: If Despero fails to control shaggyman for some reason (and is unable to BFR juggs) there is no way he can defeat these three. "
to be truthful... HP Doomsday alone would be a lot of trouble for Despero alone... I look at Juggernaut and Shaggyman here as Extra Muscle to simply pound on Despero... Despero's speed can be an issue here if he makes it an issue... so often DC Characters with Super Speed tend to slug it out with there Opponents even in the fact that are smart enough to know they have a Speed Advantage with their Opposition...
" @Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind.
Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no?
@King Saturn: Remember Despero isn't using his other abilities in those scans, I just wanted to show that he can take punishment, he should also be able to avoid most blows from juggernaut and also has his rarely utilized TK abilities to keep him from being pounded by multiple people at once. If he is somehow overwhelmed he'd immediately go for the mental attacks and I don't think the three of them would take him out fast enough. I will agree with you on this: If Despero fails to control shaggyman for some reason (and is unable to BFR juggs) there is no way he can defeat these three. "
to be truthful... HP Doomsday alone would be a lot of trouble for Despero alone... I look at Juggernaut and Shaggyman here as Extra Muscle to simply pound on Despero... Despero's speed can be an issue here if he makes it an issue... so often DC Characters with Super Speed tend to slug it out with there Opponents even in the fact that are smart enough to know they have a Speed Advantage with their Opposition...
"
Yes thats why I often say that just because a fight happened one way in comics, isn't necessarily how a fight would happen if both characters used the full extent of their abilities. I agree Doomsday alone would give Despero a lot of trouble, but that's not what this fight is. I think Eilings presence gives Despero a lot of breathing room. And if Despero can BFR juggernaut, then I don't doubt that Eiling and Despero together could take Doomsday.
ntrol him. "keep in mind that Flight and Super Speed has never been an issue against HP Doomsday... Doomsday has handled mutliple bricks who could Fly by himself... as well as Superman commented on how fast Doomsday was... so I dont know if Despero has a speed factor over him at least... maybe Juggernaut or Shaggy Man... now another thing to consider is the fact that unless Despero thinks to immediately use Mental Attacks which may not even work on Juggs or Doomsday... then Despero will easily get overpowered immediately... by Doomsday and Juggernaut... and also keep in mind that HP Doomsday seems to be damn near unstoppable to almost anytype of attack... I mean he later on showed the ability to withstand the Omega Beams as well as blasts from Imperiex... I dont know how the Mental Attacks would work on him... but as I said before... its 3 Powerhouse Bricks here... Doomsday may not need to go full blown at Despero since he has so much muscle here to help him... "
I agree Doomsday is probably the one closest to him in speed. But I'm not saying that his speed and flight allows him to win offensively, but gives him enough of a defense advantage to recover from an initial physical confrontation and launch a psychic assault. Despero has been shown to be able to take a lot of physical punishment
So I don't think it's not unlikely for him to last long enough to go the his third eye. I'm not saying that he'd win for sure. I just think he has a much better chance than it seems people are giving him. He's more versatile than his opponents and he can turn his enemies to his allies.
@King Saturn said:
" the thing is though... Despero wouldnt be able to get to Juggernaut physically because of Juggernauts Force Field... "
I forgot about that, would Despero be able to lift the ground Juggernaut is standing on? Also does his force field require concentration or thought? "
unless Despero could lift the entire Land Mass that the fight is taking place on and tossing it in the Sun... Juggernaut will still be active in this battle... and Despero has to somehow find a way to get Juggs Helmet off while in the process of handling HP Doomsday and The General Eiling... otherwise Despero cant use Mental Attacks on Juggs as long as he has that Helmet on... and you cant beatdown Juggs with your fists... he is too durable for that... at least in this case since he is only being attacked by Despero's fists... the only possible weak link here is Shaggy Man... but who knows how his mind is to Mental Attacks...
@Lance Uppercut: do you know if 8th day juggy is immune to mind control for sure, i ask this since you've seem to be very knowledgeable with juggy?
@vuviper: to tell you the truth this is 8th day juggy and i ain't even sure if he can be mind controlled at all since it has not been done, besides the real problem here is despero has no way of breaking down juggy's force field, i think it can only be broken thru mystical abilities rather than brute strength which also isn't even a problem either for juggy, h/p doomday has no mind that can be controlled as it was said above by king already, now that i think about this battle again i think this is pretty much a curbstomp for the team imo
" @Lance Uppercut: do you know if 8th day juggy is immune to mind control for sure, i ask this since you've seem to be very knowledgeable with juggy? @vuviper: to tell you the truth this is 8th day juggy and i ain't even sure if he can be mind controlled at all since it has not been done, besides the real problem here is despero has no way of breaking down juggy's force field, i think it can only be broken thru mystical abilities rather than brute strength which also isn't even a problem either for juggy, h/p doomday has no mind that can be controlled as it was said above by king already, now that i think about this battle again i think this is pretty much a curbstomp for the team imo @King Saturn: excellent break down here "
@King Saturn: He wouldn't have to lift the entire landmass, just have shaggy occupy doomsday while he TK's the ground under Juggs and that out into space he is generally considered stronger than superman so he should be able to do it This is him lifting the rock of eternity with geoforce trying to crush him with it
My original idea was to have Despero mentally assault juggs and then BFR him, (with helmet on) from seeing that Bedlam was able to attack juggs with his helm on. But if he just lifts the ground that wouldn't even be necessary. I think the fact that Batman is able to hypnotize him indicated that Despero would easily mind control Eiling.
@capall: The scan of Juggs getting mentally assualted by Bedlam is 8th day Juggs. Also just to clarify I didn't say he would mindcontrol him but momentarily incap him to allow him to BFR. I also agree that Doomsday probably can't be mind controlled, but if it's Despero and Eiling against Doomsday, Doomsday is in trouble, if it's Despero and Eiling against Doomsday and Juggernaut it certainly isn't a stomp
@Lance Uppercut said:
" @vuviper said:
" @Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind. Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no? "
Bedlam and Despero are comparable, yes. But the only reason I think Bedlam was able to affect Cain was because of her mystical background. "
Xavier was able to when juggs was confused/weakend. This is still in 8th day
I'd favor the team(though I do think it a *somewhat* likely scenario that Despero would/could control Shaggyman, and with their combined strength Battle Field Remove Juggernaut. But could they take down Doomsday?).
" I'd favor the team(though I do think it a *somewhat* likely scenario that Despero would/could control Shaggyman, and with their combined strength Battle Field Remove Juggernaut. But could they take down Doomsday?). "
Eiling and Despero together? I think the have the strength to knock him out. If nothing else Shaggy could lock doomsday in an endless battle and Despero could just relax. Or if they fail to physically knock out Doomsday, Despero could make Eiling hold onto him while Despero BFR's both of them into space.
Just wondering, does anyone dispute the claim that Despero could in fact mind control Eiling, because it is, first, the claim I think is most obvious, and, second, integral to my conclusion that Despero could win.
" @King Saturn: He wouldn't have to lift the entire landmass, just have shaggy occupy doomsday while he TK's the ground under Juggs and that out into space he is generally considered stronger than superman so he should be able to do it This is him lifting the rock of eternity with geoforce trying to crush him with it
My original idea was to have Despero mentally assault juggs and then BFR him, (with helmet on) from seeing that Bedlam was able to attack juggs with his helm on. But if he just lifts the ground that wouldn't even be necessary. I think the fact that Batman is able to hypnotize him indicated that Despero would easily mind control Eiling.
@capall: The scan of Juggs getting mentally assualted by Bedlam is 8th day Juggs. Also just to clarify I didn't say he would mindcontrol him but momentarily incap him to allow him to BFR. I also agree that Doomsday probably can't be mind controlled, but if it's Despero and Eiling against Doomsday, Doomsday is in trouble, if it's Despero and Eiling against Doomsday and Juggernaut it certainly isn't a stomp
@Lance Uppercut said:
" @vuviper said:
" @Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind. Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no? "
Bedlam and Despero are comparable, yes. But the only reason I think Bedlam was able to affect Cain was because of her mystical background. "
Xavier was able to when juggs was confused/weakend. This is still in 8th day "
Xavier was able to do that because Juggernaut had a mind battle with Cyttorak . In the second part of 8th day Saga Xavier tried to get through Cain's helmet , but failed .
" @King Saturn: He wouldn't have to lift the entire landmass, just have shaggy occupy doomsday while he TK's the ground under Juggs and that out into space he is generally considered stronger than superman so he should be able to do it This is him lifting the rock of eternity with geoforce trying to crush him with it
My original idea was to have Despero mentally assault juggs and then BFR him, (with helmet on) from seeing that Bedlam was able to attack juggs with his helm on. But if he just lifts the ground that wouldn't even be necessary. I think the fact that Batman is able to hypnotize him indicated that Despero would easily mind control Eiling.
@capall: The scan of Juggs getting mentally assualted by Bedlam is 8th day Juggs. Also just to clarify I didn't say he would mindcontrol him but momentarily incap him to allow him to BFR. I also agree that Doomsday probably can't be mind controlled, but if it's Despero and Eiling against Doomsday, Doomsday is in trouble, if it's Despero and Eiling against Doomsday and Juggernaut it certainly isn't a stomp
@Lance Uppercut said:
" @vuviper said:
" @Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind. Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no? "
Bedlam and Despero are comparable, yes. But the only reason I think Bedlam was able to affect Cain was because of her mystical background. "
Xavier was able to when juggs was confused/weakend. This is still in 8th day "
Bad Writing. His helmet has blocked amped psy attacks that Cain confirmed were stronger then his brothers.
Has Eiling (or Shaggy man) ever been subjected to a telepathic attack? We have seen scans of Batman hypnotizing him, but hypnosis and telepathy is not the same.
@Lance Uppercut: well you specified 8th day. and both of the examples of his helmet being pierced were from 8th day. Anyway he could just BFR him by moving the ground underneath him if juggernaut has his forcefield up, and if he doesn't have his forcefield up he could easily rip of his helmet.
@TheJuggernautpunch: I pointed out that he was in a weakend state, It just shows that the helmet grants protection but not immunity.
@Lance Uppercut: well you specified 8th day. and both of the examples of his helmet being pierced were from 8th day. Anyway he could just BFR him by moving the ground underneath him if juggernaut has his forcefield up, and if he doesn't have his forcefield up he could easily rip of his helmet.
@TheJuggernautpunch: I pointed out that he was in a weakend state, It just shows that the helmet grants protection but not immunity. "
One example was plausible. The other is unsupported by years of canon regarding Xavier and the helmet.
@Lance Uppercut: well you specified 8th day. and both of the examples of his helmet being pierced were from 8th day. Anyway he could just BFR him by moving the ground underneath him if juggernaut has his forcefield up, and if he doesn't have his forcefield up he could easily rip of his helmet.
@TheJuggernautpunch: I pointed out that he was in a weakend state, It just shows that the helmet grants protection but not immunity. "
One example was plausible. The other is unsupported by years of canon regarding Xavier and the helmet. "
Plausible because of the mystic aspect of Bedlam's telepathy? "My mystic mental powers overwhelmed all the members, but you flash
" @King Saturn: He wouldn't have to lift the entire landmass, just have shaggy occupy doomsday while he TK's the ground under Juggs and that out into space he is generally considered stronger than superman so he should be able to do it This is him lifting the rock of eternity with geoforce trying to crush him with it
My original idea was to have Despero mentally assault juggs and then BFR him, (with helmet on) from seeing that Bedlam was able to attack juggs with his helm on. But if he just lifts the ground that wouldn't even be necessary. I think the fact that Batman is able to hypnotize him indicated that Despero would easily mind control Eiling.
@capall: The scan of Juggs getting mentally assualted by Bedlam is 8th day Juggs. Also just to clarify I didn't say he would mindcontrol him but momentarily incap him to allow him to BFR. I also agree that Doomsday probably can't be mind controlled, but if it's Despero and Eiling against Doomsday, Doomsday is in trouble, if it's Despero and Eiling against Doomsday and Juggernaut it certainly isn't a stomp
@Lance Uppercut said:
" @vuviper said:
" @Lance Uppercut: Well I'm not really qualified to contest that statement as I have no idea what Xavier is capable of. I can tell you a few things I know J'onn is a capable of. Telepathically linking all heroes across the globe and on the moon Reading the minds of all human on earth at once Making the Joker sane Mentally imprisoning Prometheus' mind. Still, if MM is Comparable to Xavier I would think Despero is at least comparable to Bedlam no? "
Bedlam and Despero are comparable, yes. But the only reason I think Bedlam was able to affect Cain was because of her mystical background. "
Xavier was able to when juggs was confused/weakend. This is still in 8th day "
I dont know if we can except Xavier effecting Juggs in a weakened state as valid here... since Juggs will be at 100 percent in this battle... and being able to mentally take over ShaggyMan maybe possible... but still even if it did happen... Shaggy Man would catch hell fighting either HP Doomsday or Juggernaut... especially Juggernaut... also consider the fact that this fight is still intially a 3 on 1 at first... and unless Despero knows to use the TP on ShaggyMan immediately... he may not get the chance to use it effectively here before Doomsday, Juggs bash his head in... Despero is tough... but asking him to somehow manhandle these three suckas is too much... even with Despero's Mental Abilities
I dont know if we can except Xavier effecting Juggs in a weakened state as valid here... since Juggs will be at 100 percent in this battle... and being able to mentally take over ShaggyMan maybe possible... but still even if it did happen... Shaggy Man would catch hell fighting either HP Doomsday or Juggernaut... especially Juggernaut... also consider the fact that this fight is still intially a 3 on 1 at first... and unless Despero knows to use the TP on ShaggyMan immediately... he may not get the chance to use it effectively here before Doomsday, Juggs bash his head in... Despero is tough... but asking him to somehow manhandle these three suckas is too much... even with Despero's Mental Abilities "
Whether Despero can affect Juggs has been adressed, the scan with Xavier was just to show that the helmet provides protection not immunity, but it was also irrelevant because Lance stated Bedlam was able to do it becase his telepathy had mystical origin and I provided a scan showing Despero's is as well.
This is how I see the initial stage option 1: Despero fights them initially and takes a beating, he flys out of their reach to catch his breath and attempt to enslave the trio, only Eiling is taken option 2: Despero fights them initially and takes a beating, he wants to retreat realizing that these three are even more powerful than the powerhouses he had to face in JSA/JLA, Eiling doesn't allow it, using his size and strength to pin despero while the others pound him, despero's first instinct (and really his best option) is to enslave Eiling.
Either way it is now Eiling and Despero vs Juggernaut and Doomsday with Juggernaut soon to be BFRed
@King Saturn: But hasn't Despero taken on characters as strong or stronger than Juggernaut and Doomsday before? I see no reason to think they would clean house on him before he had a chance to at least try a telepathic assault.
" @King Saturn: But hasn't Despero taken on characters as strong or stronger than Juggernaut and Doomsday before? I see no reason to think they would clean house on him before he had a chance to at least try a telepathic assault. "
who has Despero fought thats tougher than HP Doomsday ? HP Doomsday has taken attacks from the Omega Beams as well as blasts from Imperiex... Despero hasnt fought any single entity thats quite as strong as HP Doomsday... add in Juggs extra muscle power as well as possibly ShaggyMan and Despero is toast here...
@vuviper said:
" @King Saturn said:
I dont know if we can except Xavier effecting Juggs in a weakened state as valid here... since Juggs will be at 100 percent in this battle... and being able to mentally take over ShaggyMan maybe possible... but still even if it did happen... Shaggy Man would catch hell fighting either HP Doomsday or Juggernaut... especially Juggernaut... also consider the fact that this fight is still intially a 3 on 1 at first... and unless Despero knows to use the TP on ShaggyMan immediately... he may not get the chance to use it effectively here before Doomsday, Juggs bash his head in... Despero is tough... but asking him to somehow manhandle these three suckas is too much... even with Despero's Mental Abilities "
Whether Despero can affect Juggs has been adressed, the scan with Xavier was just to show that the helmet provides protection not immunity, but it was also irrelevant because Lance stated Bedlam was able to do it becase his telepathy had mystical origin and I provided a scan showing Despero's is as well. This is how I see the initial stage option 1: Despero fights them initially and takes a beating, he flys out of their reach to catch his breath and attempt to enslave the trio, only Eiling is taken option 2: Despero fights them initially and takes a beating, he wants to retreat realizing that these three are even more powerful than the powerhouses he had to face in JSA/JLA, Eiling doesn't allow it, using his size and strength to pin despero while the others pound him, despero's first instinct (and really his best option) is to enslave Eiling. Either way it is now Eiling and Despero vs Juggernaut and Doomsday with Juggernaut soon to be BFRed "
I accept Juggs being effected with the Helmet on as moreso of Shaky Writing at times than actual valid fact... simply because there are more instances where Juggs has resisted Mental Attacks with the Helmet on... that just the Two or Three that you stated here... ( now that isnt to say that Juggs is totally immune to Mental Attacks... I just dont think its as easy as it may seem in the few instances you mentioned ) as far as the Options go... Option 1 could never happen... because HP Doomsday is simply too fast... Despero wouldnt get a chance to take a breather... dont let his bulky size fool you... there was a reason Superman stated how fast Doomsday could move and react to him... Option 2 maybe possible... but its gonna be hard... Despero hasnt fought anyone like HP Doomsday... he is the key here... even if Despero can somehow get control of Eiling he would have to do it right off the bat... to avoid taking a massive beating... I see Juggernaut as sort of Cannon Fodder here but his additional muscle could provide to be a pain against Despero... but to think Despero would do that here is sort of hard to believe unless he had a little prep ( maybe a few minutes ) or simply knew that they were coming at him beforehand...
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