Like in a fight ? All of ST universe vs DR Who ? Its realy a STOMP. Q is not the only one out there with incredible power. There was 1 dude that in a moment of anger and grief destroyed an entire civilization everywhere in the galaxy by just thinking. Lots more dudes with this level of power around. Then the Feds got daniels and his crew that got some incredible level of time/space travel.
" Like in a fight ? All of ST universe vs DR Who ? Its realy a STOMP. Q is not the only one out there with incredible power. There was 1 dude that in a moment of anger and grief destroyed an entire civilization everywhere in the galaxy by just thinking. Lots more dudes with this level of power around. Then the Feds got daniels and his crew that got some incredible level of time/space travel. "
I'm not so sure. There are more than a few Q like entities running around in the Who universe too. And even the 29th century Feds haven't really shown anything to say they could top the Timelords tech, I mean they invented black holes and changed the laws of physics so that magic could no longer exist. And both of those feats were when their civilization was in its infancy. The Daleks also have some pretty lethal toys, such as the reality bomb, which could destroy not only our universe, but all alternative universes as well.
As far as omnipotents vs omnipotents goes there's no real way to say who could win. But when it comes to "normal" races, I'd say Dr Who has the more impressive tech.
" Like in a fight ? All of ST universe vs DR Who ? Its realy a STOMP. Q is not the only one out there with incredible power. There was 1 dude that in a moment of anger and grief destroyed an entire civilization everywhere in the galaxy by just thinking. Lots more dudes with this level of power around. Then the Feds got daniels and his crew that got some incredible level of time/space travel. "
I'm not so sure. There are more than a few Q like entities running around in the Who universe too. And even the 29th century Feds haven't really shown anything to say they could top the Timelords tech, I mean they invented black holes and changed the laws of physics so that magic could no longer exist. And both of those feats were when their civilization was in its infancy. The Daleks also have some pretty lethal toys, such as the reality bomb, which could destroy not only our universe, but all alternative universes as well. As far as omnipotents vs omnipotents goes there's no real way to say who could win. But when it comes to "normal" races, I'd say Dr Who has the more impressive tech. "
Ah he meant all the DR Who universe ? i had the impresion is just that guy lol. My bad. As for all of the universe i got no idea who will win but if ST can't use Q but DRU can use Q level guys then its obvious who wins ...
@Xan: True. I mean there are other omnipotents in ST, but Q is definately the first one that springs to mind. But to me omnipotent fights are kind of boring as there can't really be a winner. I would quite like to see the 29th century Feds take on some Dr who races though. Personally I think they'd get raped by the timelords, But any war that involves time travel would, at the very least be interesting to watch. Plus I think against some of the lower tier races there could be some really nice battles.
What does the beast do against the Doomsday Machine?
@Baldy said:
"Trelane and his folks solo. "
Trelane is rumored to be Q. "
The beast is the manifestation of evil. A god-like being that exists in every religion as an all-powerful, all-knowing being. The Doctor finds it in the Impossible Planet episode. Essentially, it's TOAA
I'm familiar with the Beast. I saw the episode(s). I don't recall him being that powerful since he resorted to trickery to get off the planet and couldn't fight against a the pull of a black hole, something the original Enterprise did frequently.
The Time-Lords The Daleks The Cybermen The Beast The Ood The Nestine Conscieness and the Autons The Judoon The Slitheen The Silurians The Weeping Angels The Eternals The Ice Warriors The Weevil The 456 Sex gas
VS
The United Federation of Planets The Romulan Star Empire The Klingon Empire The Cardassian Union The Dominion The Borg Collective The Ferengi Alliance The Breen Confederacy The Gorn Hegemony The Hirogen Species 8472 The Dwoud The Voth The Krenim Imperium The Iconians Caretaker's race Prophets and Pah-Wraiths The Doomsday Machine
What does the beast do against the Doomsday Machine?
@Baldy said:
"Trelane and his folks solo. "
Trelane is rumored to be Q. "
The beast is the manifestation of evil. A god-like being that exists in every religion as an all-powerful, all-knowing being. The Doctor finds it in the Impossible Planet episode. Essentially, it's TOAA "
Yeah right, somehow I don't see a black hole eating TOAA.
What does the beast do against the Doomsday Machine?
@Baldy said:
"Trelane and his folks solo. "
Trelane is rumored to be Q. "
The beast is the manifestation of evil. A god-like being that exists in every religion as an all-powerful, all-knowing being. The Doctor finds it in the Impossible Planet episode. Essentially, it's TOAA "
Yeah right, somehow I don't see a black hole eating TOAA. "
The Beast had those "magic" (no other word for it) chains on that kept him at low strength/power. Like Superman with Kryptonite.
What does the beast do against the Doomsday Machine?
@Baldy said:
"Trelane and his folks solo. "
Trelane is rumored to be Q. "
The beast is the manifestation of evil. A god-like being that exists in every religion as an all-powerful, all-knowing being. The Doctor finds it in the Impossible Planet episode. Essentially, it's TOAA "
Yeah right, somehow I don't see a black hole eating TOAA. "
The Beast had those "magic" (no other word for it) chains on that kept him at low strength/power. Like Superman with Kryptonite. "
I also don't see that happening to TOAA. If he was omnipotent how could they put the chains on him in the first place?
@Satyrquaze: Well you've still Trelane and the Caretakers people etc. But this is why Universe Vs Universe battles tend to be a bit dull. Most of them in comics and sci-fi have omnipotent beings, so the fights just become stale-mates or undecided. This battle would be more interesting if we stuck to the non-ascended races imo.
You know, I haven't watched Star Trek in like 10 years. You people bring out the geek in me lol.
What does the beast do against the Doomsday Machine?
@Baldy said:
"Trelane and his folks solo. "
Trelane is rumored to be Q. "
The beast is the manifestation of evil. A god-like being that exists in every religion as an all-powerful, all-knowing being. The Doctor finds it in the Impossible Planet episode. Essentially, it's TOAA "
Yeah right, somehow I don't see a black hole eating TOAA. "
The Beast had those "magic" (no other word for it) chains on that kept him at low strength/power. Like Superman with Kryptonite. "
I also don't see that happening to TOAA. If he was omnipotent how could they put the chains on him in the first place? The whole idea is clearly ridiculous. "
I never said it happened to TOAA. The beast is essentially that character in the Doctor Who universe, I was using a reference many people would understand. Chains were put on him before this universe was created by other omnipotent beings. No, the idea isn't clearly ridiculous.
Yes, the Bad Wolf is allowed. I excluded Q because there are other omnipotent beings in Trek, and that most fights start with "Q solos" so I wanted to avoid that.
What does the beast do against the Doomsday Machine?
@Baldy said:
"Trelane and his folks solo. "
Trelane is rumored to be Q. "
The beast is the manifestation of evil. A god-like being that exists in every religion as an all-powerful, all-knowing being. The Doctor finds it in the Impossible Planet episode. Essentially, it's TOAA "
Yeah right, somehow I don't see a black hole eating TOAA. "
The Beast had those "magic" (no other word for it) chains on that kept him at low strength/power. Like Superman with Kryptonite. "
I also don't see that happening to TOAA. If he was omnipotent how could they put the chains on him in the first place? The whole idea is clearly ridiculous. "
I never said it happened to TOAA. The beast is essentially that character in the Doctor Who universe, I was using a reference many people would understand. Chains were put on him before this universe was created by other omnipotent beings. No, the idea isn't clearly ridiculous. "
That doesn't even make sense, the Disciples weren't omnipotent and even if they were why wouldn't they just create a black hole on top of him after chaining him up? I'd like to see any kind of evidence that the Beast was on the same level as TOAA.
I think the Doctor Who equivalent to the One Above All might be the "Bad Wolf" (or the TARDIS / Time Vortex, which is more or less what the Bad Wolf was)
In 2361 – with Rishon 77 years old – the couple moved from the aquatic city New Martim Vaz on Earth to the Federationcolony on Delta Rana IV to live out their final years together and to "fall in love all over again".
Unfortunately, in 2366, a warship belonging to a vicious species known as the Husnock attacked the planet. As Kevin possessed a pacifist conscience, he refused to destroy the Husnock attackers outright, instead trying to scare them away with false images. Instead of fleeing, however, they became "angrier and more cruel", laying waste to the planet. Finally, Rishon left Kevin's side and joined the fight against the Husnock – perishing with the other colonists. When Kevin found her body, he lost control of hisemotions; in a fury of blind rage, he summoned his powers and destroyed the Husnock completely – all fifty billion of the species. When Kevin regained his senses and realized what he had done, he was horrified.
@Satyrquaze: Thanks. They are obviously very powerful. 50 billion people is no small thing. But I'm not entirely sure that they're on Bad wolf level. 1 reason I don't really think they are is that they haven't shown any time travel/manipulation abilities, where as BW clearly has.
They have the ability to create and destroy on an epic scale; they also maintain the ability to attack through psychic means.The Douwd appear to be nearly omnipotent, but not omniscient.
And that's another reason. Bad wolf was stated to not only be able to control matter/energy, but also to see all of time and space. Which at the very least is an advantage.
Fact is though even if Bad wolf can top The Douwd there's still a whole heap of omnipotents and ascended beings in both shows to eventually lead to a either a stale mate, or the total destruction of both universes.
"Ah, Trelane could do it with a wave of his hand. He's pretty close to on par with Q, and would curbstomp Bad Wolf. "
I'm not so sure. " Trelane wore a blue tailcoat over a white frilled shirt and green riding pants with black boots. These clothes, along with his foppish mannerisms, were intended to suggest what he believed conditions on Earth to be at the time. In fact, he was viewing an image of Earth some centuries out of date, perhaps a consequence of the fact he was over nine hundred light years away"
During the meal, McCoy noticed that the food and drink had no flavor, while Karl Jaeger commented that the fire burned brightly, but emitted no heat. These things, and Trelane's error in time, suggested that he wasn't infallible and that he knew of the Earth forms but none of the substance.
Both of those points would indicate that Trelane is not omniscient.
Kirk and Spock further theorized that some external agency was actually responsible for most of his tricks. When Kirk noticed Trelane rarely strayed far from his large wall mirror, he formed a plan. Tricking Trelane into an old-fashioned duel, Kirk shot the mirror – which exploded spectacularly. Deprived of his support mechanisms, Trelane was unable to prevent the Enterprise crew from departing
That would indicate that he's not fully omnipotent under his own powers.
I remember reading a book years ago when I was a ST fan that said Trelane was part of the Q continuum. I didn't remember much else from it, but when I googled it I found this: Trelane is able to tap into "The Heart of The Storm," the theoretical and literal center of the universe, where chaos exists; doing so gives Trelane more power than the entire Continuum, allowing him to close it off and play with the universe as he pleases. Trelane then manipulates three different tracks of the USS Enterprise-D timeline, with the ultimate goal of the experiment being the merging of all parallel timelines and the destruction of the multiverse order. Captain Picard, with the help of Q, manages to stop Trelane, though the experience reduces Trelane to a speck of his former existence.
Had he succeeded he would of most certainly been at least equal to, if not well above Bad wolfs level, however since he failed he has only a fraction of his original power, Which I would personally say places him below.
Also to be noted regarding the mirror that Kirk shot is: Peter David's novel attempts to resolve the apparent discrepancy by suggesting that Trelane is (in essence) developmentally disabled relative to other Q; the machine analogous to crutches or a wheelchair.
So even assuming Trelane is a Q, he rides the short star ship to school, so can't really be compared power wise to the rest of the continuum.
Though, if the book isn't cannon (I honestly don't know) Then Trelane's ""parents could easily be considered at least on par with The bad wolf.
One thing I was curious on though (As I say it's been years since I've watched) Have there been any examples of Q existing outside of existence, I know he's been present at the big bang. But has he been shown to exist before, after or outside our Universe / multiverse? Not including the continuum as that is linked at least partially to the the main universe of ST. Thanks.
As i said to bat Q is not in to end this debate with a snap of his fingers ...
One thing I was curious on though (As I say it's been years since I've watched) Have there been any examples of Q existing outside of existence, I know he's been present at the big bang. But has he been shown to exist before, after or outside our Universe / multiverse?
How about the fact that he is god and runs the after life ? When Picard dies he goes there ... would that qualify ? Also the q continuum is outside normal time/space from what i remember
" As i said to bat Q is not in to end this debate with a snap of his fingers ...
One thing I was curious on though (As I say it's been years since I've watched) Have there been any examples of Q existing outside of existence, I know he's been present at the big bang. But has he been shown to exist before, after or outside our Universe / multiverse? How about the fact that he is god and runs the after life ? When Picard dies he goes there ... would that qualify ? Also the q continuum is outside normal time/space from what i remember "
i wasnt even sure if he really ran the after life since he like to screw with ppl... and picard wasnt convince either but then again Q had nothing to gain since Picard wouldnt remember their meeting iirc
" As i said to bat Q is not in to end this debate with a snap of his fingers ...
One thing I was curious on though (As I say it's been years since I've watched) Have there been any examples of Q existing outside of existence, I know he's been present at the big bang. But has he been shown to exist before, after or outside our Universe / multiverse? How about the fact that he is god and runs the after life ? When Picard dies he goes there ... would that qualify ? Also the q continuum is outside normal time/space from what i remember "
Is that the one where His false heart exploded and Q gave him the chance to go back and change the past so that he wouldn't need the artificial heart? If so then there's only really Q's word that what Picard saw was the real deal bona-fide after-life and not just one of Q's little games.
Yes the continuum exists outside normal time/space to the extent that you or I couldn't jump on a plane and fly there. But when the Continuum where fighting each other the "weapons" used in the continuum had drastic effects on our Universe. Also it's been alluded to that the Q were once not so different from humans and evolved in Normal space, only entering the continuum when they ascended.
The reason I bought that up is that Ascended Timelords are able to thrive even after all of existence, time, space, and alternate Dimensions/ Universes have been wiped out. I figure Q should be able to as well, but can't remember anything off hand to confirm it.
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