Doc green vs world breaker hulk

@atheistknowledge: Have you quite figured out yet whether Cho was telling the truth when he said Hulk was holding back at the end of WWH and yet was lying when he said Hulk had gone full WB in vegas in heart of the monster, or are you still working your way around that one?

So amadeus cho knows what he is talking about except when he doesnt, amirite?

And thats just for starters. Its honestly hilarious to see the likes of you and TDB fall over yourselves to prove WBH is the greatest evah and whatnot

@kgb725: The morg feat, among others

@thegrayghost: pretty much half of your post is explained in this thread:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/hulk-187/context-files-hulk-1577088/

Just read the first and last sections. I can't be bothered to go through another pointless discussion with you and that thread explains it remarkably well, issue numbers and all. Maybe even someone dillsuional enough to think prime is a low level powerhouse can be convinced by that thread.

@thedailybagel: lol....i remember the thread this battle was even thought of...that being said...to me WBH should get the win...for the majority...

@thedailybagel: Yawn. Skimmed through it. Honestly given the sheer number of things you ignore per post , I shouldnt even respond to this, but seriously things that happen a fair amount of time after said fight with surfer are relevant, how? To the extent of me noting the logan stuff came later,along with the weakened state ( and the non death ha) which was only temporary at the beginning?

Ooh Superboy Prime. Ignoring the fact that I never called him a " low level powerhouse", are we actually going to have a debate based on FEATS on this one, or is this your typical casual statement with no follow up, and pathetic appeal to the fanboys to help your ever weakening case and gain some kind of credibility, by talking about a separate character ?

WBH sits on Doc

@thegrayghost: the scan shown in that thread pretty clearly said hulk was gradually dying, and it was like a cancer eating his cells. He may not have been as weakened when he fought surfer, but fact is he wasn't at the top of his game and was getting weaker. Heck, can you show me the scan where strange says hulk is more powerful now please? I Have my doubts that's what he said.

If you think supes can beat him, he isn't a very high level powerhouse, considering someone like superman isn't exactly top-dog of that tier either.

Feats, statements, I couldn't care less at this point. Superboy prime has consistently (here that word? Know what it means?) been portrayed as above people like superman, in every area, whether it be keeping up with flashes or moving around planets like chess pieces.

And going back to what you said about amadeus cho, you realise that literally the next day hulk himself said that he was holding back in vegas?

@thedailybagel: 1. There is no evidence of him getting weaker at any point, in the fight vs surfer. Strange's comments I will likewise check for veracity, but here's a question. Is any of this actually worth my time , or are you going to flat out ignore 90% of the comment once again, before outright leaving the thread?

I want to know right now, before pursuing the hulk thing further. Comments take time to type, and need me to check every issue to substantiate them properly. So again, is this the real thing, or will it end in another cop out?

Cause if it isnt, you could answer this bit to begin with, regardless of the whole hulk amped/ non amped thing, how does hulk ever hurt surfer given say just the morg feat, based on FEATS?

2. No, Supes doesnt have to be a top dog anything to beat him. Wally isnt a " top dog tier house either", and he would beat Prime just fine. Likewise say Jonn Jonnz or anyone really, given strength alone is not required for a win

In Supes' case, being outright faster, well more skilled to extent of dropping class 100s with pressure points and durable enough to withstand whatever blows may be landing on him for a tough win

3. You just embarked on a rant in your previous comment about how statments dont matter when not supported by feats.

Now you say "feats, statements I couldnt care less at this point"

It keeps getting ever more amusing

4. Being portrayed " above people like superman?" ha . Clearly you havent read enough superman comics to have nearly any idea about just how many people characters with the S shield job out, many more times than prime. Lets start with OWAW and superman and doomsday soloing an army that easily wrecked pretty much every other earth hero, and even one of whom nearly killed wonder woman

5. Prime's performances against Flashes are abysmal , to the extent of trying , and failing to hit all of Jay Garrick with HV at point blank range. Its the main reason he loses

Heck you want a brief history? Prime in IC , blitzed by Wally, Bart and Jay in the main series before he can even react. In the teen titans special, the ONLY time he reacts at all to a speedster, he manages to somehow punch them all...before getting hit by STRIPE in the very next panel

He then gets blitzed by Barry, and ...Max and Johnny? Lol

After this Bart gives him a beating at superpseed ( yes before he absorbed the speed force) as Kid Flash, right before trapping him in the speed force, in the main IC series

Then later in IC 7, Bart gives him another beating, this time having absorbed the entire speed force

In the sinestro Corps war superman prime special, Prime gets blitzed by Wally and ...Jay, his only reaction being all of " I ..dont like speedsters.. and flying away"

In Legion of 3 worlds, Bart and his sister give him another beating, in fact he hilariously runs away from Bart screaming " noooo!" after yet another beating

Post crisis superman by contrast performs admirably to say the least vs speedsters

He runs even with Wally in at least 6 races after Wally went wtf FTL in Zero hour, and outreacts him on at least two separate occasions

He runs even with Jay, Bart, Jesse, Max in his electric form in the human race

He blitzes Lightray in superman confidential and says he is faster than him in DD wars

He runs even with Jay, in DC first: superman/ Flash

His speed is " comparable" to Thawne as he tags him in Time masters: vanishing point

He outraces Bart in Impulse 47 iirc, and also a separate superman issue.

He keeps up with a Barry amped as the Black Racer in rebirth, on a day Diana and Hal specifically cant keep up with them. He tags and catches up with Barry in superman 709. he ties barry in a race off panel in generation lost , with barry speculating he might be faster

And thats just his perfomances against spedsters ( admitedly the ones with Wally for instance border on PIS) without going to things like reacting in nanoseconds and the like

heck at the very least dude is as fast as Jay, who can react fast enough to block primes HV with his hat at literally point blank range, and otherwise blitz prime so bad his only option is to fly away

5.Sure Prime shoves around planets, and This gives him a * strength* advantage, that is ultimately meaningless given supes' speed and skill, and durability to weather whatever punches may land, and primes own hilariously suspect durability

6. Hulk sure was talking about how he no longer holds back..,after strange outright noting " its like..someone wished for it" and Tyrannus flat out saying " no longer held back by his fear of hurting others...while discussing Hulks wishes"

Sure sequences which otherwise require external sources ( wishing well) to unlock the full potential , arent that valid, if thats what you are saying, I totally agree with that.

All Doc Green has to do is bring Red She Hulk in the battle.

Brave man ^

@thegrayghost: so what? There wasn't evidence of him getting weakER in any of his other fights, he was still weakened, it was a progressive thing over several months. Point is he was weaker when he fought surfer, him not being able to hurt him when PAD has had him hurt surfer several other times is a testament to that.

Depends on what you say, maybe if you didn't write a freaking essay on everything Id be bothered to respond, seeing as that's the main reason I and many other uses rarely talk to you and stop responding. I mean you've just babbled on for 2 and a half paragraphs when a simple "are you going to ignore what I say" could've been enough.

I don't think skill is helping when the guy your fighting is a hell of a lot stronger and more durable than you are, not to mention faster.

Pretty much all flash related things can be put under the CIS label. Prime is scared of them and always acts like an idiot when facing them.

And again, the way you misinterpet statements is hilarious. Strange was talking about umars goblins for christ sake. And again. What are you trying to prove with all this nonsense about how the wishing well was affecting things? It let him get over his fear of cutting loose because he created a scenario where he could actually do it, that's it. He was still under his own power and by battle forum rules we assume each character is fighting to the best of their ability. And I don't think "SOMEONE STOP RAAGHHH!!! CANT HOLD BACK" is fighting to the best of your ability. So of course we use the mindset where he isn't like that, the one where he couldn't care less about breaking the planet.

He didn't require any external sources to reach his potential. He just never got a chance to STOP HOLDING BACK. That's the whole point of it. Any number of things could have allowed him to stop holding back, just so happens that the wishing well came along first.

I mean, your acting like he somehow wished for the wishing well to unlock his potential dragon ball Z style when literally all it did (try to read this part) was:

GIVE HIM AN EXCUSE TO STOP HOLDING BACK.

@thedailybagel: Aannnd. Done. Id stay and elaborate about the whole thing again but then once again you would pick one of 4 things noted by me, write your own " essay" on that, and limit your responses about things you dont like to single, one word sentences not that this essay for instance is going to get a much longer reply, once I start picking holes in it, its going to get hacked down to a two sentence fanboy rant, desperately trying to ignore *feats* ( sorry if you are allergic to the word) and logical arguments

At least my " essays" cover every point raised in the previous post. Yours are just boring

I dont need to ask " are you going to ignore what I say", again. At this point I already know the answer

Edit: Id wish you luck for your debate vs the termionite dude, but you probably wouldnt need it. His somewhat fanatical hatred for most marvel characters ( and this version of hulk in particular) is bound to be his downfall , much like your refusal to adhere to feats and standards of consistency and an overiding need to support the hulk, was yours in this thread

@thegrayghost: funny, your the one constantly complaining but once again you've wrote an essay on how your not responding.

See. Much easier just to say "I'm not responding" or something along those lines. Anyway, feel free to tell me anything I missed, shorten it down and I might humble you with a response.

By the way, why is it that whenever I bring up the wishing well part and explain it to you, you just suddenly stop replying? Seriously, your like a broken record at this point, saying the same thing over and over no matter how much your corrected.

@thedailybagel: Hmm? Everything but the wishing well thing was a mere footnote

Corrected? Amusing.

But since you complained so much the last time, Ill just ask you straight up: will my posts get ignored if I reply about the wishing well thing?

Edit: am logging off now since its been more than 15 min since your last reply and you dont even seem to be online but will expect reply in a few hours

I already gave you an answer to that, you simply ignored it. First off Hulk himself knows better when he is or when he is not going into WBH mode, Amadeus Cho hasn't even seen Hulks WBH mode until the end of Hearth of Monster, so his statements before that are pretty meaningless considering to him what he saw in Manhattan and Vegas was the height of Hulks anger. So him saying Hulk is going into WBH mode is just him giving his best estimate, while he has as already stated ran the numbers and calculated everything and came up with the answer that Hulk held back in WWH which Hulk himself confirmed and later confirmed that he was HOLDING BACK in Vegas. But of course you will chose to ignore that because somehow Amadeus words about whether or not Hulk was going into WBH mode mean more then Hulk himself confirming it.

Your dunning-kruger effect is amusing but it get's you nowhere really, stop strawmaning. Neither me nor thedailbagel are ever claiming WBH is the greatest evah. The fact that you guys can't get over that some form of Hulk can actually beat the likes of Superman is your problem, to me it looks like you honestly think Superman must be the greatest ever, so the pot calling the kettle black type of deal. Anyway keeping adding on the comedy for the collection, it's amusing to hear hilarious statements like WBH can hit SS until he tires but SS wont even notice him. Truly amazing.

WBH

The sheer stupidity of some people that even after all this time, they still think Hulk was trying to beat up his amped up wife. Even though the comic and himself have stated otherwise. If only that was the silliest part, the silliest part is that they think RSH is that powerful on a regular basis i guess She Hulk must be more powerful then the both of them since she defeated RSH lol.

This is... a very odd battle post.

The OP seems to be calling out another person on a statement they made in a different thread. According to that person, the statements were:
1. Doc Green is the most dangerous Hulk.
2. Doc Green with prep could BFR WBH.

And so the OP made a thread between Doc Green and WBH (the strongest incarnation of Hulk that we've seen, I think), but one fighter (the one that ISN'T the strongest incarnation of Hulk that we've scene) is prevented from accessing exactly the sort of technique that could help Doc Green establish both statements.

Is BFR not considered "dangerous"? Is BFR not a powerful technique to use against a physically stronger opponent? Why hamstring the weaker fighter and prevent him from using exactly the tools your original opponent was basing his argument upon?

Out of curiosity, someone mentioned that Doc Green has BFRed at least one opponent before, though it was under limited circumstances. Can someone enlighten me about what those circumstances were? Would they include enemies capable of (PIS or otherwise) SOLOING Marvel Earth 616? Would Doc Green really ignore the BFR button in favor of fisticuffs with a World-Breaking Hulk? Really?

Just... intriguing. The Spite is strong in this one, as is the Strawman.

Just to be clear, the weaker fighter who was prevented from winning loses, and WBH stomps. Surprises abound, I'm sure.

@unusual_suspect: wrong wrong wrong, and wrong...

He called me out repeatedly saying that doc green was a) the most dangerous hulk, and that b) with prep none of the other hulks would stand a chance (and BFR was only one of the reason he listed).

Because that's not what he was basing his argument on and doc green wouldn't do it anyway.

It was red hulk. He was having his butt smacked at his home base and decided to BFR him because he only needed him to collect data and didn't need to win a fight against him.

There is no spite, I knew who would win and I only made the thread because I was asked to make it repeatedly.

He wasn't prevented from anything, it's not in his character to BFR anyway.

@thegrayghost: honestly, if you think the wishing well did anything other than let hulk cut loose then save it. That's pretty clearly all it did and he didn't have some magical mental block stopping him from doing that, he just didn't have to fear breaking earth to do it.

Now this is just fascinating. You admit that BFR was, indeed, one of the bases for his argument (not the only one, I understand, but explicitly one of his arguments), and then you remove Doc Green's ability to BFR in the battle, despite an insistence that Doc Green "wouldn't do it anyway".

And who does he do it against? Another Hulk with capabilities dangerous to him, who is himself LESS powerful than WBH. Does Doc Green "need to win a fight against" WBH, or does he need to defeat him? BFR can do that, and its a powerful tool. And it's one he's used AGAINST HULKS.

So you've admitted that A) you aren't arguing here the battle that you were called out to make, but instead are using a weaker version of the other viner's character, and B) that Doc Green WILL BFR in character if the circumstances are right.

But weren't "preventing [Hulk] from anything." Right.

A Spite thread, as I understand it, is a thread in which one side is vastly more powerful than the other (through their natural abilities or the circumstances in the setup) in a deliberate attempt to "spite" the weaker (or weakened) character. You heard the callout of a viner, removed one of the pillars of his argument from even being DISCUSSED as part of the battle, then winked and grinned halfway through this thread acknowledging that this wasn't a fair fight in any sense.

If it quacks like a duck, and moves like a duck, it's probably a duck.

@termiteone4ever: Hey, dude, you still around this thread? Can you and/or @thedailybagel provide a link to whatever callout created this thread?

Did you actually specify BFR as one of the tools Doc Green would utilize?

I can totally understand you bailing on this thread, but I'm curious just how honest this setup is.

Then those people are stupid.

@unusual_suspect: he had several arguments (when in reality none would work due to the own comics explaining why they wouldn't) and BFR was one of many, despite doc green not BFRing in charatcer...

This is just hilarious and points out to me you don't have a clue about what your talking about. Let's go through it:

1) doc green was beaten half to death

2) he tried to escape using a portal without even considering BFR (and failed, which leads onto the next point)

3) he was at his home base

4) he didn't need to win anything because he only needed to collect data

5) the main reason he BFRed was because he knows ross doesn't like lava, so thought it would p*ss him off if he put him in lava...

A) what are you on about? I'm using the version he told me to use...

B) sure, if the circumstance are exactly as explained above. And even then, you replace WBH with red hulk and all it takes is a thunderclap for him to win, so we wouldn't even get past step 1. The whole point I left out BFR is because I didn't want to explain things over and over again to people who know sqaut about the characters, just like I'm having to do right now with you. I mean, he's been in a dozen or so situations where BFR would have been the smart option and even got ready to fight silver surfer for christ sake, for no other reason than "well he hit me so I'm gonna hit him back despite that guy having a history of whooping my @ss" So no, doc green isn't BFRing anyone in character.

A spite thread is when a thread is made purely to bash another character. Ive debated for both characters in this thread on many occasions because I like both of them, the thread was made because somone kept asking me to do it. What your describing is a 'mismatch' or a stomp. Where one side vastly outclasses the other, which is addmitedly the case in this thread and as you can see from the responses everyone agrees with me.

I couldn't care less about his petty arguments. I removed one of the more nonsensical ones because a)don't want keep explaining why it wouldn't work and b) BFRing someone to somewhere else on earth when the guy your BFRing casually threatens continents by standing still isn't exactly solving the problem and it would be against doc greens morals to endanger other people anyway. As for the rest of his arguments, they were literally this:

Doc green knows how to karate chop

Doc green can cure hulks, so he can cure any other hulk (despite the comic explaining that because the cure is derived from his own blood it wouldn't work on his self)

And last but not least "well doc green uses tech intelligently" (referring to his little robot thing that gets broke in every fight and carries a single needle of the gamma cure inside).

@atheistknowledge:

1. So...Hulk, the guy with no equipment measuring anything, who is otherwise still shaking continents in his " holding back" phase...knows better than Cho, the guy with no equipment, making said statements ? I mean really, in the second case, all we see is Vegas shaking, we have only Cho's word that he is even shaking the continent for us to believe him. So Cho, is a lier on that count too,then ?

Come on, lets see *some* consistency here.

Other than that, sure Hulk talks about no longer holding back even as Strange mutters " its almost like someone...wished for it", to be followed by Tyrannus noting how Hulk is no longer held back by his fear of himself..,while explaining the wishes

The whole business comes across as just a wee bit dubious is what Im saying... when others note the Hulk has gone FULL WB in Vegas alone, under his own power, and then *after* the wishes, he externally reaches a level, that otherwise is noted among other things to directly empower people ( Betty), bring them back to life ( Cho and the others) and tosses around times like " dying, reforming" etc

What Im saying is the feat is..whats the word? Unusable , given the sheer number of asterisks , and the lack of supporting feats on that count

2. While we are there, this otherwise originated from my question as to why exactly his " spontaneous gamma ray emmision" ( which btw did not behave anything like gamma rays) did not cause the planet to explode , in manhattan or vegas.

Your response to this was Cho saying he was holding back in Manhattan and er..Cho saying he was *not* holding back in Vegas, but gone full WB?

So Cho is lying except when he is not amirite?

You then try to justify that by saying he had equipment in one case and "hadnt seen hulk go full WB anyway". So what equipment does Hulk have , for us to take his statements seriously? As far as the latter goes, you just basically admitted Cho has no idea what he is talking about . You cant have Cho be right once and then wrong the next time.

Given once again, that Hulk stopping to " hold back" co incides with a slew of wishes, that literally empower people and bring them back to life, why yes sure , he might have " stopped holding back" after having done whatever he could have under his own power in Wwh and vegas. Sure, external devices help him reach a level he otherwise does not

Now somewhat amusingly ,AFTER said " stopping to hold back" sequence he gets back to earth...and doesnt blow it up spontaneously, without even getting to stuff like his fight with Skaar previously.

What is your explanation for that ?

3. My " hilarious statements" about Hulk being unable to hurt Surfer ( which are yknow based on actual feats that neither one of you has been able to refute) , extends explicitly to superman too.

You could try actually reading the whole thing, before getting your over rustled jimmies in a wad there.

post crisis Superman, much like the Hulk cannot actually hurt the surfer based on feats

And no, Superman can absolutely thrash WBH any day of the week, given even taking his feats at face value , his * durability* involves stuff like nearly being hacked in half by all of Betty even before her amp, getting hurt just fine by Skaar channeling all of the power of tectonic plates and then screaming in agony from...sand ? flowing through his body!? Hurting just fine from the 3 trillion thing punch or whatever

His" gamma ray burst" likewise is hilarious and even trying to pass off something that literally has people like hmm Reed...and later an untransformed Jen and the others in its midst and doesnt even kill them, something which even ignoring stuff like how a source actually affecting the eastern seaboard would have fried everyone in manhattan, killed anyone else exposed to such a degree of radiation, otherwise affects *only* the eastern seaboard? That's not even remotely close to moving at the speed of light much less affecting one such as superman

He otherwise sure has a sequence where he operates above any of his other showings, when amped by a wishing well ( and still gets cut in half by RSH) and terms such as " reforming" being tossed around ..while people are actually brought back to life.

4. Setting aside all of that , Superman has a variety of showings that I would rather not bring up, either because of the context involved, or the inconsistency with regards to his other feats, but sure. He has otherwise rocked the solar system as a side effect of his fights, contained a solar system busting black hole, moved a dwarf star system, lifted infinity a couple of times, casually moved through a nanosecond time dilation ( that even taking hulks gamma rays as moving at light speed, and them being able to affect superman...at all makes them a statue relative to him) , dimension hopped on speed alone, time travelled on speed alone etc

Heck even just as that one thing, Superman busted a planet as a side effect of his fight vs Zod, that has waay fewer qualifiers attached to that than the RSH showing

But no, i dont care to bring up feats like these, because as much as I like the character, Im not reaally a part of an agenda to see him win every battle ever based on some ridiculously out of context, dubious or plain inconsistent feats. That just goes against my personal standards of feats and consistency for every character regardless of who they may be

You on the other hand....

@thedailybagel: It should have been clear from my first post that I wasn't as familiar with Doc Green (or WBH, for that matter) as an expert would be when I asked for clarification on when, if, and why Doc Green used BFR.

I wasn't arguing Doc Green would win, or even that this wasn't still a stomp in WBH's favor. I was arguing that you were called out to make a thread, but you limited the capabilities of the combatant you knew to be less powerful by removing a tool he has used in the past (albeit once, under limited circumstances) because he "wouldn't use it in character" when he HAS used it in character (again, under limited circumstances). Oh, and also limiting one of Doc Green's natural abilities to absorb radiation (Because he wasn't limited enough?), but let's just leave that aside.

The thing is, bud, you are free to argue against his use of BFR as you just did if you don't think it will be a factor in THIS fight (because, again, Doc Green has, in limited circumstances, resorted to BFR in-character), and all the other arguments termite made are equally dismissable through explanation. Assuming it CANNOT be a factor is what made this thread so utterly childish in my eyes.

But since this thread is a spite stomp, and utterly pointless by calling out a viner for a challenge different than the one they actually proposed in a way that makes victory for WBH practically certain, I think I'm done here. Have fun.

@thedailybagel: The well otherwise making him reach a level, he couldnt on his own , to the extent of people outright saying " he has gone full WB!" earlier works just fine as far as reasons to exclude the feat go. Things like people actually being empowered ( RSH) and brought back to life ( Cho and the others) on a day the wishes specifically use words such as " reforming" and whatnot, things like WB Hulk otherwise being skewered by betty, hurt by Skaar, and amusingly returning to earth and not blowing it up, yep those things make the feat dubious just fine

But apparently as always, you have decided against pursuing this further. Heh

@thegrayghost: at this point your being difficult for the sake of being difficult. No one is calling cho a liar, the point was that he saw hulk threaten the continent which you actually see as the ground is breaking for miles in every direction prior to him even taking a footstep (which sets off more destruction). I think hulk knows when he's holding back and when he isn't, cho on the other hand saw what he THOUGHT was full on world breaker hulk and reacted accordingly.

Your either blind or refusing to listen at this point. Strange is referring to the freaking goblins when saying "almost like someone wished for it" because none of them are innocent, and tyrannus mentioning how he's free of his fear ive explained countless times, but you refuse to listen.

Dude, stop being difficult. Hulk said himself he held back in vegas, end of conversation. He doesn't reach a new power level, he just stops holding back. That was half of the point of paks arc, there's a reason everyone thought he'd break the planet. Why the hell would he need an amp to do so if paks intentions were clear?

Because he was holding back. Doesn't take a genius to work it out.

Do you even know what the word 'lying means'. Cho had never seen a full on world breaker before, all he saw was hulk being angrier and more dangerous than he was before. The escalation is shown clearly. In Manhattan he takes several steps and threatens the Eastern seaboard. In vegas he doesn't take one step and threatens a continent. Finally he stops holding back and breaks a planet.

Where are you getting equipment from? Stop pulling words out of your @ss, I've never once mentioned cho used equipment to measure anything, and If I have quote me on it.

What? Your being serious right now? So because hulk doesn't have equipment he doesn't know himself when he's holding back or not? Do I really have to tell you how stupid you sound. Right, so that means batman can take punches from clark and despite supes saying he holds back, he doesn't because he isn't using equipment to measure it right? How do you not see how stupid you sound?

For Christ sake. How does hulk saying "I held back in Vegas, I held back in Manhattan, I'm the world breaker, I'm going to stop holding back now" (paraphrasing) magically mean "right, truth is, I didn't stop holding back. I'm amped, boom!"? Your reaching so badly right now I can't see how your arms are still attached.

Simple. He wasn't in his world breaker state when he got back to earth. If he doesn't have a big explosion going off everywhere he isn't world breaker hulk.

I'll finish this one I can be bothered to, I've had enough reaching for the minute.

@thegrayghost: Ugh the grasping for straws is marvelous. Let's have a drinking game as to how many times the notion "Cho is right except when he is not is used".

1. Yes the Hulk, the guy that is going WBH the one that knows more about his powers and when he is and is NOT going WBH, get's to tell us when he is or is not holding back. I know that's so hard for you to grasp because you much rather believe Cho who is not Hulk and doesn't know what Hulks limits are, in fact that was the whole point. The reason why he said to Athena Hulk was the wrong person to champion, he thought Hulk would always do the right thing and stop himself, but in the end he could have killed them all.

Yes it's almost like someone wished for them to be on a planet with no innocent beings, that's what they where talking about.

Well as i said and as common sense dictates others don't know about Hulk as well as he does, with that said the feat will be unusable as soon as you show me where Hulk was amped by the wishing well. I know it pains you so much but Hulk can break a planet, the same Greg Pak that said WBH would beat Superman or even an amped Superman said Superman could also break a planet if he wished for but the guy he named "worldbreaker" can't... thank you for the flawless logic.

2. This may come as a shocker for you... but maybe, just maybe WBH has different stages to it? I mean maybe there is a WBH that hold backs(in fact there is as shown by Hulk himself) and there is a WBH form where he just let's go, doesn't care about anything or has no fear of hurting others anymore. With that said if Hulk can sink a whole eastern seabord with a step then he can break the world, it might take him more time but even in that holding back phase he could still destroy the whole planet so he is already in WB mode. Again i know it's hard to accept that a being that solely relies on his emotions to amp him would have different phases of strength.

3. Your hilarious statement(which i thank you for very much) was that WBH could pummel SS all he wants and SS wouldn't even notice him. Don't try to backpedal out of this one. Anyway we will see just how much Hulk can "hurt" SS when the 2 of them fight in Battleworld #4. It will be even more hilarious if SS ends up losing altogether, but we will see.

Way to lowball there. Superman get's trashed by WBH get over it. Yes WWH got cut by Betty, Superman got KO'd by lightning, got mangled by a single nuke and yes i know he was weakened. But Betty slashing him which had no effect, where was he hurt by Skaar's 100 trillion punch(lol 3 trillion), yea he got sand powered by old power pierce him through his entire body and it still did not stop him. It's funny how guys like you only see the bad side of it, but none of you stop to wonder that none of those things you mentioned even stopped him let alone killed him when guys like Superman would have been goners.

What part of holding back is it hard for you to understand? In Hearth of Monster we see those same gamma bursts incinerate countless beings as well as blow them back, but nope let's just cherry pick the ones where Hulk was holding back and present them as what those gamma rays are only capable off.

4. "Superman has feats that i would rather not bring because of consistency and context involved but let me just list them anyway", stay hilarious my friend. You will be a great asset to clonws of comicvine compilation list.

The smell of irony is in the air.

@atheistknowledge: tag, your in bud. I'm losing too many brain cells...

@thedailybagel: The trick is not to take him too seriously, every few sentences he says something so mind boggling stupid and hilarious it helps me storm through the posts. I just love how he desperately tries to paint the whole feat and WBH mode as useless in battles because he thinks too many things are involved. When in reality it's actually pretty simple and the comic explains it, Hulk just finally let's go...

Let me go for a few rounds with him, i wanna see how he will backpedal out of saying WBH pummels on SS without SS even noticing. Didn't know SS was a durability beast unlike any other, i guess Thor knocking him out and visibly hurting him several times must mean Thor is just playing around every time he fights Hulk even when he states he wont hold back or says things like "I will kill you" to Hulk.

internal hulk warfare

WBH

world breaker hulk 3 shot him and that's all. but with doc green super intelligent, i can see him doing some tricks that would surprise everyone watching the fights in marvel. doc green is so smart. he could barely win. just saying.

Yea I reckon with prep Doc Green could come up with that anti-hulk serum he used on Rulk and Red She Hulk. He already has all the information on him he'd need to beat him. He would know his weaknesses, what could calm him and what would tick him off. (Being from a later time in WBH's life).

some experts need to be called in here. @ghostravage@theacidskull

@cosmicallyaware1: Check the first page.

ok first if you said that Doc Green was fighting WWHulk even if you don't give him the prep he would win. but wbhulk is 8 lv higher than Doc.

@tensor: @smoothsanta: the cure wouldn't work. He said himself that since the cure was derived from his own blood he can't use it to cure himself, doc green and world breaker hulk are technically the same person so the cure wouldn't be effective against him.

@atheistknowledge:

1. You say Hulk is the go to guy for things related to him holding back or not. Bear in my mind this is your own stance on the issue and not mine

So when the Hulk turns up at dawn in incredible hulk 634 , and " WE'RE gonna fight . Like no one has ever fought before. And WE'RE gonna DIE. And then we're gonna fight some more" , going as far as to preface said declaration with " NO LIES", is the Hulk lying now?

Remember you said it yourself, Hulk knows best what he is doing himself. So when Hulk goes on a rant like this, at the end of which we have a sequence explaining the wishes as " burning...REFORMING" , did the Hulk die and reform , like the others, yes or no? *Try* to answer this one without contradicting yourself

Talk about shooting yourself in the foot

Other than that, sure when a qualified scientist like Cho otherwise makes statements like that, you cant dismiss them once and accept them another time just because it suits your needs. Especially when the dude contradicting the statements ...is not exactly Banner, another scientist. Especially when said contradiction occurs on a day people are being brought back to life, hulk is talking about dying and returning himself, and people are outright noted to be amped and free from " holding back"...mmhh no. I wouldnt exactly call that a " clean feat"

But more on that later. Did Banner die or not there, yes or no?

2. no. someone did not * just* wish for a planet with no innocents. They wished for , among other things, Betty getting amped to Hulk levels and the dead being brought back to life. Saying they were only talking about a planet of innocents is factually incorrect, and given that forms the basis of the rubbish you are otherwise sprouting, the whole tirade is rendered meaningless

I mean just to pick that one thing, given hulk talked about dying and coming back to life, to the extent of people actually doing so, do you feel that wish involved hulk getting killed himself and coming back to life or no? Or are you going contradict your own stance on " Hulk knows best " on this one?

Fanboys are ever so amusing , and so easy to put down , they scarcely beggar the effort I put into it

3. This is you again

" Others dont know about the Hulk as much as he does"

Remember this. None of this from my side, but your own exact quotes

4. Wooh. Its almost like Greg Pak is the only writer ever, to write superman! Its almost like his opinions matter more than the hundreds that came before him, rather than supermans consistent perfomances over decades!

Wow. A writer making a statement. Ha . Not even an actual comic

5. Hahaha. But but I thought the whole point of WBH..is that he spontaneously emitted so much radiation that class 100s would be vapourised / injured just being near him lol, at least thats what I hear in every WBH thread ever

So Reed? Class 100? Jen untransformed? Class 100? The hundreds of people in Vegas ? Class 100s?

Heck the entire planet after his return from the dark dimension? Class 100s everyone I guess?

Are you not even going to try to refute the " gamma ray burst " nonsense you sprout on every WBH thread ever?

Proof of them behaving anything like close to the real world gamma rays? Maybe when they showed lightspeed by ...reaching all of the eastern seaboard? Maybe when they showed the toxicity of the rays by...not killing Jen intransformed as she lay right next to the Hulk? Maybe when they showed the destructive capability of in any way affecting class 100s by failing to kill Reed and breaking a couple of buildings in manhattan?

Or maybe a combination of all of the above, as Cho and the gang engaged several sentences before the " lightspeed" gamma ray burst from a non holding back hulk reached them? I mean this was a flat out bloodlusted hulk specifically by your own statements. Where was the " spontaneous" gamma ray burst there?

Oh wait. None of that actually happened. There was no " gamma ray anything ,in fact there was nothing much of note going on till the physical collision of RSH and Hulk.

And then last time I brought it up...your response was ...the artist's depiction of a tough * physical* fight actually being...waves of energy being released? I mean wtf

And then you called those things gamma rays because and I quote " there were different colors so they are gamma rays" despite upto this point Hulks ( non existent) gamma rays ALWAYS being a shade of green. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot

You are quite the comedian, you

6. "WBH thrashes superman". Yeah , sure based on nothing at all, least of all the hilarious gamma ray thing

Just to pick one of those things the 100 trillion punch, is well below planet busting levels, making the Heart of the monster feat null and void given what hurt him there. ( of course its pretty valid once you factor in the wishing well and hulk talking about dying and coming back)

Thats all the strength required to hurt him. Durability=/= healing factor

So sure, a superspeed blitz from new 52 supes ( who ai wasnt even talking about) would drop him sure

Even ignoring the hilariously out of context feats being cited for supes' durability, thats completely irrelevant to his strength and speed , which is all he needs to KO the hulk

As far as things like sand and RSH managing to go right through him ( the latter on wishing well day), that goes just fine with his less than planetary level durability and makes the RSH feat all the less valid given what is enough to hurt him.But then again, by your own admission hulk knows best, and he was flat out talking about dying and coming back so * shrugs*, the wishes worked just fine it seems

7. Hey its almost like at one point in the previous comment I didnt outright note that neither of you has actually formed a counter to the SS thing,as far as accusations against me " trying to get out of that go"

Then you tried to sidetrack me by accusing me of being a superman fanboy, to which... I replied Superman would have exactly the same effect vs surfer: zilch. Nada.

So I guess Im a surfer fanboy now, right?

As far as your statements go, sure ! I can guarantee that Hulk is going to hurt him just fine in battleword.

or even Thor, or whoever else he faces

That list could also potentially include spider man, Wolverine, or haha Panther for a rematch with that arm bar

None of that would change the fact that even your precious WBHs totally out of context feat isnt enough to show.....he can even affect the surfer, given how he ignored Morgs attack just as an example. Other things like surfing supernovas, catching and throwing stars, fighting inside black holes, being at ground zero of an energy output that ends up ripping open a black hole as * side effect* , and the ilk, support the claim just fine

Otherwise yes, Panther can arm bar Surfer, Hulk can be KOd by Cap, Batman can make Darkseid bleed with his kicks etc just fine

Yeah sure they forget what they have done outside of fights vs popular characters..,while fighting popular characters just fine. Its called selling a story. I mean not many people are going to buy a book that has hulk smashing Surfer with all he has , and surfer yawning away till he reverts to Banner

As I said, sure if you want to judge characters based on their performances against popular charcaters alone , as opposed to the individual , consistent feats outside of these fights, then be my guest

So by your logic Batman is a FTL, class 100 then totally , amirite? Slade at least is easily FTL, rite?

Im genuinely curious as to whether, like your buddy TDB, you are outright going to ignore the argument made in this and comment 42, for a classic one word reply or if youre actually going to try to debate this based on consistent feats and logical reasoning

8. Hulk is flat out noted to have stopped holding back in Incredible Hulk 634. He hits the goblins. still no " gamma ray burst". Cho and strange have a decent-ish conversation meanwhile. Still no " lightspeed" gamma ray burst. Hulk collides with RSH , planet explodes from their physical shockwaves . Hulk dies and comes back to life ( ha , by your own logic) . Still no " gamma ray burst" , beyond " lots of colours, nevermind only color displayed by hulks blasts have been green so far"

Hulk returns to earth almost immediately after, still no explosion except for surprsie surprise when they were empowered by the wishes

Yeah , I think Im done here. Ive made my point quite clearly

9. Ha . The differnece being citing unusable feats for a character, and what they would mean for if actually argued for, and actually trying wildly to argue for a feat which has as many asterisks as the one you mention, and trying to use it as something actually valid in a debate, is that one involves actually sticking to objective, unbiased, consistent standards of debating . The other involves putting on green make up, stuffing one hand down your crotch , the other furiously typing away at the internets lolz and typing in full capitals " HULK SMASH!" at the slightest indication of any doubt over where your loyalties lies

Yes, the irony was indeed there, but sadly it flew over your head, as you continue babbling on about feats that you defeat with your own logic and statments. Ha. Give that hand a rest, mate. In fact, while you're at it , give * both hands* a rest

@thedailybagel: Blah blah blah...essay blah blah

You think this is some kind of a joke? You drop out of every discussion I try to have with " nah that essays too big to read/ waay out of my hulk fanboy club league to refute", and then when you respond with it " ..save it", and I return a similarly shortened comment, you think that gives you some kind of license to prattle on about perceived weaknesses in comments not even addressed to you?

Do you feel that I should in any way devote my time in forming a reply to someone who responds to roughly 10% of what I write, but who now feels that he has the right to write a mini novel because of a perceived weakness he saw in my comment addressed to someone else

Get lost. I'll respond to the other guys comments from now on in this thread and have you on "ignore". At least whatever delusions he is sprouting, he deigns to cover every topic raised and not mumble about how he isnt going to read my " essays" but then launch into a tirade at the slightest sign of weakness.

Like seriously, you disgust me with your hypocritical, parasitic methods and standards. Please leave/ stop replying. I dont want to "debate"with you and waste my time

My. God. The level of ignorance and downright stupidity is astounding me...

@thegrayghost: well your reaction is pretty funny actually, "WAGHH! Two people disagreeing with me!". And cmon, these aren't even discussions anymore, it's just you acting like a broken record whenever someone explains something to you, i don't think I've once seen you change your stance on anything no matter how much is thrown in your face contradicting what you said. And yes, I think everyone has a right to respond to the stupidity you go on about. I mean according to you:

World breaker hulk was hurt by a 3 trillion ton punch from skaar. In actuality:

Regular greenscar literally smiled when he landed (not even an "ouch") after skaar delivered a 100 trillion ton punch.

Hulk doesnt know when he's holding back or not. In actuality:

Self explanatory.

Strange was talking to hulk when saying "almost like somone wished for it". In actuality:

Strange was looking at, referring to, and the speech bubble was in the same freaking panel as the goblins.

World breaker hulk was hirt by regular sand. In actuality:

Regular greenscar had pretty much every organ in his body pierced by skaars oldpower using the sand as a weapon and was fine 10 seconds later.

The gamma burst is harmless. In actuality:

When the actual gamma burst went off (not just the greenlight) he blew up half of Las Vegas and no one was near him at the time. Heck, arm'cheddon harnessed his power and pretty much one shotted betty with it.

I mean, I could go on but I think you get the point.

I don't care, I'll do what I want.

Oohh, somone seems cranky.

Hmm, interesting use of the word "parasitic"... Yknow, perfectly reasonable to break down and have a hissy fit whenever someone constantly corrects your mistakes -sorry- delusions.

A simple "leave me alone" would have sufficed but once again, the essay strikes back.

@thedailybagel: You reaally seem overjoyed at the chance of replying to things that arent addressed to you dontcha? So much easier when the opponent isnt fighting back!

You only need look at the first 2 pages of this thread to see what exactly happens when I actually bother to form a reply

Also, hah the "parasitic" thing was a Chris Jericho reference, not that you would actually know ...anything about anything not related to the hulk

@thegrayghost: your acting like I've restricted you from replying to me.

Incoherent babbling nonsense?

Nah, I know plenty that isn't hulk related. Although I'm not really a chris Jericho fan, more of a cm punk and undertaker one.

@thedailybagel: You have indeed restricted me from replying to you, to the extent of saying "...save it" , when questioned to whether it was worth my while to form a reply.

This despite being asked repeatedly whether you are going to ignore me or not, and despite me repeatedly telling you to amswer the whole post instead of the select 10% which you (wrongly) believe will not end up embarrasing you

Hah, you cant even have a normal conversation without contradicting yourself every few seconds

@thedailybagel:

I do think Doc Green would be able to come up with something to beat World Breaker. Being one of the smartest people on the planet, and a later version of his actual opponent. He may lack the strength to beat World Breaker up front, but I'm sure that he can trick him into calming down, at least long enough for him to capitalize on.

.....and because Doc Green is a bit of a d*ck, I think he would play dirty with World Breakers emotions to beat him. Telling him about Skaar and Hiro Kala might calm him down as an example.

@smoothsanta: those are better ways examples of how doc g could win than what I've seen so far.

This is Hulk that is smarter than any version and is very Powerful. Now this man hulk have an arsenal of weapons in the Trophy room . With that much prep against him self how can he lose. Even if the Op is changing the argument.

What you do you mean BFR isnt a win ? You think a win is all about Brawl or being knocked out? . Doc green can open Doors and teleport the WBHULk anywhere that can kill him. Are you forgetting that DOC green is the Hulk too and have a Trophy room weapons i am sure he could think of plan to annihilate the WBh. Doc green is a Hulk he knows his weakness. Once BFR was done at least one time thats all he needs as a feat Its valid.

You made a thread contradicting our original argument. Taking the ability to absorb gamma radiation that would for sure amp Doc green . Taking away BFR would for sure make this fight easier. SO nerfing Doc green abilities only proves what i said is correct. He is the most dangerous Hulk been this smart with so much tech at his disposal.

So Doc green still stands

Bump. For record player.