Destroyer Suit VS Captain Atom
-Fight to the Death;KO or Incapacitation
-The destroyer is controlled by Steve Rogers
-Random encounter
-No BFR
-Fight takes place in Asgard.
pretty sure the Destroyer got this easy, in comics its a Skyfather weapon and killed all Avengers with ease including Thor. Atom would need some high level magic doohookie move where he can hit the Destroyer's astral/spiritual form and remove Steve's consciousness from the unbreakable Armor
Even OdinForce Thor has problems doing this when Thor using the best of his abilities with the Odinpower, the Destroyer is still almost unbeatable
Destroyer should have this one easy
@Maxwell Lord the fourth: Good point, but Thor has that ability as well. IIRC he's never successfully done it (then again, I don't think he tried).
I'm under the impression that Destroyer armor has only been defeated via plot device... (except for the time Thor blasted the armor with a God Blast)
If this is the case, I don't see a legitimate way Captain Atom can win.
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: Thor with the OF, the one that fought Bor, defeated the Destroyer by absorbing and redirecting his energy. But that was OF Thor so I'm not sure CA can do that.
Well it is energy;so well within his state of influence;so I believe he can use the armor's energy against itself.But I think it would not be that easy to do.
Darkseid's Omega Beams are energy too. I seem to recall the Captain being helpless against Stayne, Darkseid's creation.
Captain Atom didn't have a problem stopping Dreamslayer's magical energy blasts in it's tracks with the wave of his hand.Depends on how good Caps magic manipulation is. Is it good enough for him to turn the destroyers energies against itself?
@TheMightyAvenger said:
If this is the case, who are we to say that it actually required Thor to be with the Odin Force limits of his powers to pull that off? All it takes is absorbing the energy into his hammer. IIRC, regular Thor did the same thing against a god in Fear Itself. I think it blasted Thor with the power of 10,000 gods or something and he used the hammer to redirect to the blast.@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: Thor with the OF, the one that fought Bor, defeated the Destroyer by absorbing and redirecting his energy. But that was OF Thor so I'm not sure CA can do that.
You mean when he absorbed the dark matter from Takion's body and was unable to contain it? Power from the Source isn't exactly magical.Darkseid's Omega Beams are energy too. I seem to recall the Captain being helpless against Stayne, Darkseid's creation.
@Static Shock: Right, my bad.
But in regards to the earlier post, IIRC Thor specifically mentioned Odin's power when he decapitated the Destroyer/Desaak combo.
When was that?But in regards to the earlier post, IIRC Thor specifically mentioned Odin's power when he decapitated the Destroyer/Desaak combo.
The last Jurgens issue IIRC. I hear the ending was rushed but I remember him pulling some reason out of thin air like "nothing can withstand the Odinforce when it is pure" or somesuch. I'll brb with more info.
Found it. Issue #79, the quote is:"The righteous power of Odin. In the face of evil, it knows no bounds."
@MutenRoshi said:
pretty sure the Destroyer got this easy, in comics its a Skyfather weapon and killed all Avengers with ease including Thor. Atom would need some high level magic doohookie move where he can hit the Destroyer's astral/spiritual form and remove Steve's consciousness from the unbreakable Armor
Even OdinForce Thor has problems doing this when Thor using the best of his abilities with the Odinpower, the Destroyer is still almost unbeatable
Destroyer should have this one easy
Another user convinced me that OF Thor most likely didn't have the full Odinforce. Thor needed to use all its power to repair Mjolnir despite the fact that it's been broken and repaired before. Odin even created Stormbreaker which was supposed to be equal to Mjolnir. So why it would take all of the power of the Odinforce to repair Mjolnir, when Odin has created a duplicate of it before and when Mjolnir has been broken and repaired on other occasions, makes no sense. Plus, his feats just didn't seem as good as Odin's. I remember once seeing Odin stop time for all humans on Earth, and then teleported them all to another dimension to protect them from his battle with Surtur and Skagg. He also had a fight with the Enchanter which destroyed planets and rekindled dying stars. Thor with the Odinforce was knocked out restoring the Asgardian people and was told he used too much of the OF's power too quickly. He even needed to go into the Odinsleep afterwards. From what I've seen of Odin, he'd probably have little trouble restoring Asgard.
I chalk it up to different writers. Jurgens, I know, does not share views concerning the Fourth World for example, that others do. (they're not from another dimension, are susceptible to psychic blasts, and are millions of years old).
@Static Shock: The god you speak of was Glory and that was in Chaos War, and also I didn't say CA couldn't do it I just said that I wasn't sure, Mjolnir is a powerfull weapon that has absorbed energy enough to destroy entire galaxies, so even with Cap's powers it might be dificult to replicate that feat.
Was that before Dr. Strange used up the Odin Force to fix the Hammer or after?Found it. Issue #79, the quote is:"The righteous power of Odin. In the face of evil, it knows no bounds."
@TheMightyAvenger said:
I don't recall Destroyer's visor beam being powerful enough to destroy galaxies, though.@Static Shock: The god you speak of was Glory and that was in Chaos War, and also I didn't say CA couldn't do it I just said that I wasn't sure, Mjolnir is a powerfull weapon that has absorbed energy enough to destroy entire galaxies, so even with Cap's powers it might be dificult to replicate that feat.
@Static Shock: Truth be told, I don't know. I can research but it'll take awhile. If you have the issues yourself you'd probably find it before I would.
@Static Shock said:
@TheMightyAvenger said:I don't recall Destroyer's visor beam being powerful enough to destroy galaxies, though.@Static Shock: The god you speak of was Glory and that was in Chaos War, and also I didn't say CA couldn't do it I just said that I wasn't sure, Mjolnir is a powerfull weapon that has absorbed energy enough to destroy entire galaxies, so even with Cap's powers it might be dificult to replicate that feat.
It can't destroy galaxies at all. I'm pretty sure of that.
@Static Shock: It can't destroy galaxies, well after thinking a bit I believe Atom would win if he tries to do that, if he tries to fist fight or just blasts the armor he could lose. also the Desak vs Thor thing was before Strange fixed the hammer, Thor was King Thor at the time, IIRC, after that the Ragnarok event takes place and then Thor is reborn, he only breaks Mjolnir after that during his fight against Bor.
@MrDirector786 said:
Another user convinced me that OF Thor most likely didn't have the full Odinforce. Thor needed to use all its power to repair Mjolnir despite the fact that it's been broken and repaired before. Odin even created Stormbreaker which was supposed to be equal to Mjolnir. So why it would take all of the power of the Odinforce to repair Mjolnir, when Odin has created a duplicate of it before and when Mjolnir has been broken and repaired on other occasions, makes no sense. Plus, his feats just didn't seem as good as Odin's. I remember once seeing Odin stop time for all humans on Earth, and then teleported them all to another dimension to protect them from his battle with Surtur and Skagg. He also had a fight with the Enchanter which destroyed planets and rekindled dying stars. Thor with the Odinforce was knocked out restoring the Asgardian people and was told he used too much of the OF's power too quickly. He even needed to go into the Odinsleep afterwards. From what I've seen of Odin, he'd probably have little trouble restoring Asgard.
Well it all depends on which Thor you are talking about, there are three of them that had the OF to my knowledge. There was King Thor who was the one that conquered Earth, killed the Avengers and all, he had all of the OF but was aparently not as good with it as Odin was, then there was Rune King Thor who also had the power of the runes, this is the one that ended the cycle of Ragnarok, he was probably more powerfull than Odin, and there was the Thor that was reborn and had a the OF but aparently not all of it since he was weaker then before, at least that's what it looked like.
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: Yes he used an amulet, but that was when Thor had waged war and conquered Earth, he also killed pretty much every hero on the planet.
From what I recall, in their older battles Thor didn't even get a chance to try absorbing the disintegration beam because it was rarely used. It was always held in reserve as this super-devastating final attack that nothing could survive, and could supposedly reduce the earth to a cinder with ease. Of course, it didn't really need it, because it could beat the crap out of Thor just fine with its strength and regular energy attacks. I actually think the battle with the Celestials might have been the first time the full force of the disintegration beam was used by the Destroyer. Of course, that was against the Celestials.
Anyway, aside from that, the Destroyer is much stronger and tougher than Thor. Classic Thor took his best shot at it many times without even denting it. Loki once did as well, with no effect (I know it's easy to overlook Loki, but he's actually very powerful when he's not being a coward; he actually beat Classic Dr. Strange on one occasion). There was another time when Thor and Thunderstrike teamed up to fight it, and it just knocked both of them around. Hela actually found it extremely impressive when they simply managed to knock it down (after it was distracted by internal conflict with its animating spirits).
Thor is usually viewed as a character who jobs somewhat, in that he often forgoes the use of many of his powers in favor of brawling. With the Destroyer, it doesn't matter if he brawls or uses his magic, he's lost in both cases. The closest I think he's come to a "win" on his own is BFRing it.
In terms of durability, I've only seen it damaged twice. Once by the Celestials (no shame there), and once by a race of gods during Jurgen's run. It's been ages since I read it, so I forget who they were, but they had taken down Odin at some point. Apparently it's also been damaged by OF Thor. So it may not be in Juggernaut's league, but it is still incredibly resilient. Then you add on Cap's fighting skills and tactics, and you've probably got one of the most formidable tanks in the MU (ignoring Abstracts, obviously), maybe second to Thanos.
All that said, CA is still much more versatile than the Destroyer. I'm not sure if he would actually lose, but I'm also doubtful he could damage the thing. He could probably keep away from it indefinitely though, since I don't think it can fly.
It can fly in HeroClix. And I personally believe it's more durable than even classic Juggernaut, but that's my opinion.
Honestly, outside of the movie and the BFR in Jurgens' run, I don't see how classic Thor even thwarts that thing. That thing is nasty. Heck, I've been told that it being BFR'd was bad writing, cause it could return. I've not been able to verify that claim, however.
@TheMightyAvenger said:
Well it all depends on which Thor you are talking about, there are three of them that had the OF to my knowledge. There was King Thor who was the one that conquered Earth, killed the Avengers and all, he had all of the OF but was aparently not as good with it as Odin was, then there was Rune King Thor who also had the power of the runes, this is the one that ended the cycle of Ragnarok, he was probably more powerfull than Odin, and there was the Thor that was reborn and had a the OF but aparently not all of it since he was weaker then before, at least that's what it looked like.
I'm talking about the OF Thor during JMS's run. The one after Ragnarok.
Geez, I think I somehow missed the entire second page before I posted last time.
@MrDirector786: The problem is that Odin's power varies wildly. Even as far as cosmics and Abstracts go, I think it is pretty inconsistent. I think Jurgen's actually made reference to such in an interview when he had Thor inherit the Odin Force, how he felt like no two authors actually had the same ideas, or even clear ideas, of just what Odin was and was not capable of. Yes, he has some impressive feats, with the narration of his fight with Infinity at least making it out to be he was shaking the entire universe. Then you've got the Ragnarok event years later, where it takes virtually all his power just to keep Balder's body in stasis to prevent him from dying. At times he can supposedly shatter galaxies, while at others he seems incapable of swatting aside small armies of trolls or giants before they can do damage to Asgard and his people.
Your point with Mjolnir, for example, is very good. Mjolnir was broken in the fight I mentioned earlier where he teamed up with Thunderstrike against the Destroyer. Afterwards, Thor fixed it by himself with a bolt of lightning. Later he needs the Odin Force to do it? Granted, I suppose it depends on the level of breakage suffered, but it still seems odd it would be so difficult for him.
@Static Shock said:
I don't recall Destroyer's visor beam being powerful enough to destroy galaxies, though.
I believe it is typically described as easily planet-busting. Galaxy busting is a pretty big step up from that. Plus, the idea of a 1 ft wide laser beam destroying a galaxy is pretty silly, even for comics (not that I'd put it past someone actually trying to write that though; this is the same medium that, unfortunately gave us Red Hulk and Karate Kid).
Unless CA can deal with galaxy level energy attacks though, I'm not sure I see the relevance. How much energy Atom can absorb or divert seems more important here.
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: I don't think I've ever seen it fly, but then I haven't seen all of its appearances. Most of the time it also doesn't seem to have much of a reason to do so, since Thor tends to have to fight it in order to prevent it from just destroying everything around itself.
From what I can tell, the Destroyer is usually beaten by somehow drawing out the spirit animating it. Sometimes getting the person's body near or in contact with it is enough, other times they have to threaten to damage the body. But in general, if they don't have access to the body of the person animating it, then they're screwed. I think Loki might have been able to expel the spirit using his magic, but I'd have to double check.
is destroyer energy blast magical? if its magic based the capt might struggle to do anything with it? i'll say destroyer wins it probably.
No, he won't. He manipulated magical energy before. I've already stated this earlier in the thread.is destroyer energy blast magical? if its magic based the capt might struggle to do anything with it?
@Freefa11 said:
I've never even seen it bust a planet, to be honest. As for Atom, he's typically stated to be able to absorb as much as he wants, but his issue is controlling the absorption rate of what he absorbs. He'll quantum jump of he absorbs too much way too fast. There has been an instance where Captain Atom redirected energy that was fired at him, back at his targets, however.@Static Shock said:
I don't recall Destroyer's visor beam being powerful enough to destroy galaxies, though.I believe it is typically described as easily planet-busting. Galaxy busting is a pretty big step up from that. Plus, the idea of a 1 ft wide laser beam destroying a galaxy is pretty silly, even for comics (not that I'd put it past someone actually trying to write that though; this is the same medium that, unfortunately gave us Red Hulk and Karate Kid).
Unless CA can deal with galaxy level energy attacks though, I'm not sure I see the relevance. How much energy Atom can absorb or divert seems more important here.
@TheMightyAvenger said:
@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: Thor with the OF, the one that fought Bor, defeated the Destroyer by absorbing and redirecting his energy. But that was OF Thor so I'm not sure CA can do that.
Thorforce Thor never defeated the Destroyer by using it's own energies, all he did was remove Balder's spirit from it.
If your talking about King Thor, that was the Desak Destroyer and nothing was implied about said hammer toss using the Destroyer's own visor blast to cave Desak's skull in.
@Static Shock said:
@difficlus said:Captain Atom didn't have a problem stopping Dreamslayer's magical energy blasts in it's tracks with the wave of his hand.Depends on how good Caps magic manipulation is. Is it good enough for him to turn the destroyers energies against itself?
@TheMightyAvenger said:If this is the case, who are we to say that it actually required Thor to be with the Odin Force limits of his powers to pull that off? All it takes is absorbing the energy into his hammer. IIRC, regular Thor did the same thing against a god in Fear Itself. I think it blasted Thor with the power of 10,000 gods or something and he used the hammer to redirect to the blast.@The_Last_Son_of_Czarnia: Thor with the OF, the one that fought Bor, defeated the Destroyer by absorbing and redirecting his energy. But that was OF Thor so I'm not sure CA can do that.
Chaos War: Thor #1 Glory, he channeled Glory's own attack back at it, tearing through reality / time in the process. Had amnesia after for a bit.
@Static Shock: well capts got the beam problem outta the way then if he can absorb and deflect that,force wise im not really with him taking it that way,still think destroyer would win,interesting fight though.
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