Despero vs. Cosmic Avengers

Silver Sufer might tip the favor for them but if Despero mind controls some members, it could spell trouble for the Cosmic Avengers.

I think the Cosmic Avengers.

Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control? 

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

That's what I was thinking. "

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

Cosmic Avengers

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

he can simply trap them all in his board until the battle is over...lol. Best method for SS is to try an astral attack or something crazy like a blackhole... "

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

Do you really see a reason why he couldn't? If he can shield himself from other telepaths, why couldn't he do it for someone else? He has psychic abilities. He doesn't need every feat ever shown to be able to do what other psychics do. You're a good debater most of the time, but you feel like every question has to be answered about the ability ever.  "

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

he can simply trap them all in his board until the battle is over...lol. Best method for SS is to try an astral attack or something crazy like a blackhole... "

Neither of which would defeat Despero. Unless Surfer can protect his allies from telepathic manipulation, Despero will have the Cosmic Avengers battling Surfer, along with himself, who could already contend with Surfer.  "

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

he can simply trap them all in his board until the battle is over...lol. Best method for SS is to try an astral attack or something crazy like a blackhole... "

Neither of which would defeat Despero. Unless Surfer can protect his allies from telepathic manipulation, Despero will have the Cosmic Avengers battling Surfer, along with himself, who could already contend with Surfer.  "

Why cant an astral attack affect despero? you know that SS is all powerful in that realm,  "

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

Do you really see a reason why he couldn't? If he can shield himself from other telepaths, why couldn't he do it for someone else? He has psychic abilities. He doesn't need every feat ever shown to be able to do what other psychics do. You're a good debater most of the time, but you feel like every question has to be answered about the ability ever.  "

Because unless you can prove that, what reason do I have to believe it is possible? Not every telepath demonstrates the abilities of other telepaths.  "

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

he can simply trap them all in his board until the battle is over...lol. Best method for SS is to try an astral attack or something crazy like a blackhole... "

Neither of which would defeat Despero. Unless Surfer can protect his allies from telepathic manipulation, Despero will have the Cosmic Avengers battling Surfer, along with himself, who could already contend with Surfer.  "

Why cant an astral attack affect despero? you know that SS is all powerful in that realm,  "

One, Despero has withstood psionic attacks form both the Martian and AquaMan simultaneously. Two, Despero can just as easily exit the astral plane as he could enter it. "

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

Do you really see a reason why he couldn't? If he can shield himself from other telepaths, why couldn't he do it for someone else? He has psychic abilities. He doesn't need every feat ever shown to be able to do what other psychics do. You're a good debater most of the time, but you feel like every question has to be answered about the ability ever.  "

Because unless you can prove that, what reason do I have to believe it is possible? Not every telepath demonstrates the abilities of other telepaths.  "

What? It's not like it's a different power set entirely from psychic to psychic. It's like saying a class 100 couldn't thunderclap someone because you've never seen it done. When weaker characters have done it effortlessly.  "

" After his recent upgrade i'm sure he can transmute Despero into a chicken...lol "

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

he can simply trap them all in his board until the battle is over...lol. Best method for SS is to try an astral attack or something crazy like a blackhole... "

Neither of which would defeat Despero. Unless Surfer can protect his allies from telepathic manipulation, Despero will have the Cosmic Avengers battling Surfer, along with himself, who could already contend with Surfer.  "

Why cant an astral attack affect despero? you know that SS is all powerful in that realm,  "

One, Despero has withstood psionic attacks form both the Martian and AquaMan simultaneously. Two, Despero can just as easily exit the astral plane as he could enter it. "

i'll give you the second one. and he can supposedly survive in the heart of a blackhole. Either way i think Avenger have it, too much firepower, if Despero tries taking control over the rest, SS will board trap them and try to handle despero alone. After his recent upgrade i'm sure he can transmute Despero into a chicken...lol "

" @difficlus said:

" After his recent upgrade i'm sure he can transmute Despero into a chicken...lol "

How did his recent upgrade affect his transmutation abilities? What did he do with it that leads you to believe he can pull this off? "

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

he can simply trap them all in his board until the battle is over...lol. Best method for SS is to try an astral attack or something crazy like a blackhole... "

Neither of which would defeat Despero. Unless Surfer can protect his allies from telepathic manipulation, Despero will have the Cosmic Avengers battling Surfer, along with himself, who could already contend with Surfer.  "

Why cant an astral attack affect despero? you know that SS is all powerful in that realm,  "

One, Despero has withstood psionic attacks form both the Martian and AquaMan simultaneously. Two, Despero can just as easily exit the astral plane as he could enter it. "

i'll give you the second one. and he can supposedly survive in the heart of a blackhole. Either way i think Avenger have it, too much firepower, if Despero tries taking control over the rest, SS will board trap them and try to handle despero alone. After his recent upgrade i'm sure he can transmute Despero into a chicken...lol "

What makes you assume that Surfer will automatically trap his allies if Despero uses his telepathy on them? That would be the logical solution, but what makes you think that is the in character one? "

" @Silver2467: That's a discussion about skill, not power set. And now you're suddenly trying to compare M and Karma to Manhunter? Not every psychic is going to do the same thing. But you have no grounds to say they can't do it just because you haven't seen it. That's Ostrich Syndrome.  "

" Because after his upgrade based on what i've seen SS doesn't joke around anymore, he seems more ruthless than before (maybe thats me). His own telepathy and cosmic awareness would alert him if Despero tried a move like that... "

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

he can simply trap them all in his board until the battle is over...lol. Best method for SS is to try an astral attack or something crazy like a blackhole... "

Neither of which would defeat Despero. Unless Surfer can protect his allies from telepathic manipulation, Despero will have the Cosmic Avengers battling Surfer, along with himself, who could already contend with Surfer.  "

Why cant an astral attack affect despero? you know that SS is all powerful in that realm,  "

One, Despero has withstood psionic attacks form both the Martian and AquaMan simultaneously. Two, Despero can just as easily exit the astral plane as he could enter it. "

i'll give you the second one. and he can supposedly survive in the heart of a blackhole. Either way i think Avenger have it, too much firepower, if Despero tries taking control over the rest, SS will board trap them and try to handle despero alone. After his recent upgrade i'm sure he can transmute Despero into a chicken...lol "

What makes you assume that Surfer will automatically trap his allies if Despero uses his telepathy on them? That would be the logical solution, but what makes you think that is the in character one? "

Because after his upgrade based on what i've seen SS doesn't joke around anymore, he seems more ruthless than before (maybe thats me). His own telepathy and cosmic awareness would alert him if Despero tried a move like that... "

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @difficlus said:

" @Silver2467 said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" Couldn't surfer protect them from mind control?  "

Has he ever demonstrated that ability? And has he ever demonstrated that ability against a telepath as powerful as Despero? "

well he withstood Moondragon with the soul gem, and that pretty darn great because with it she was supposed to be able to manupilate the mind of anyone who has or will ever exist in anyway she wants... "

Not his own resistance. I was referring to protecting others telepathically. I was never going to make the case for Despero telepathically affecting Surfer, since he cannot be affected telepathically anyway.  "

he can simply trap them all in his board until the battle is over...lol. Best method for SS is to try an astral attack or something crazy like a blackhole... "

Neither of which would defeat Despero. Unless Surfer can protect his allies from telepathic manipulation, Despero will have the Cosmic Avengers battling Surfer, along with himself, who could already contend with Surfer.  "

Why cant an astral attack affect despero? you know that SS is all powerful in that realm,  "

One, Despero has withstood psionic attacks form both the Martian and AquaMan simultaneously. Two, Despero can just as easily exit the astral plane as he could enter it. "

i'll give you the second one. and he can supposedly survive in the heart of a blackhole. Either way i think Avenger have it, too much firepower, if Despero tries taking control over the rest, SS will board trap them and try to handle despero alone. After his recent upgrade i'm sure he can transmute Despero into a chicken...lol "

What makes you assume that Surfer will automatically trap his allies if Despero uses his telepathy on them? That would be the logical solution, but what makes you think that is the in character one? "

Because after his upgrade based on what i've seen SS doesn't joke around anymore, he seems more ruthless than before (maybe thats me). His own telepathy and cosmic awareness would alert him if Despero tried a move like that... "

Of course his cosmic awareness would alert him to that, but assuming a certain solution, that is out of character by the way, is stretching. He could, obviously, do that, but given that it is not often seen for him to do so, I fail to understand why that assumption was made.  "

" @Silver2467:  1. I know what the discussion is about. Thanks for telling me I guess?  2. And now you're comparing M to the Professor and Surfer, despite her being shown as dramatically weaker then either of the two. I mean, if this is how you want to play it, then let's just throw out a helluva bunch of random comparisons. I've never seen Zoom destroy a planet with his punches. This must mean he can't do it. I've never seen Guy Gardner contain a super nova. This must mean he can't do it. See where I'm going with this? you're busy comparing people like M, who's obviously never shown the level of power Xavier or the Surfer has as though it justifies your argument.  3. No, you won't assume because it fits your argument. I don't think you could provide any real logical, in character evidence to say he couldn't do something like this. Nor am I sure exactly why you're trying to debate with me about this when I clearly stated IF he could do it in my second post in the thread. My point of view is based on that assumption. If you want to change it, prove he can't. I told you that Morpheus_ can provide a better answer then I could.  "

" I've never seen Guy Gardner contain a super nova. This must mean he can't do it. See where I'm going with this? you're busy comparing people like M, who's obviously never shown the level of power Xavier or the Surfer has as though it justifies your argument. "

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" I've never seen Guy Gardner contain a super nova. This must mean he can't do it. See where I'm going with this? you're busy comparing people like M, who's obviously never shown the level of power Xavier or the Surfer has as though it justifies your argument. "

This is a bad example to use considering that top tier Lanterns are on the same level due to stalemating each other on more than one occasion. Guy has shown the level of power that Hal has, so yeah. "

" @Sexy Merc said:

" @Lance Uppercut said:

" I've never seen Guy Gardner contain a super nova. This must mean he can't do it. See where I'm going with this? you're busy comparing people like M, who's obviously never shown the level of power Xavier or the Surfer has as though it justifies your argument. "

This is a bad example to use considering that top tier Lanterns are on the same level due to stalemating each other on more than one occasion. Guy has shown the level of power that Hal has, so yeah. "

That's not the point though. I have no doubt he can. but I mean, if I've never seen him do it, what's to make me believe that he has the power to do so? He's trying to play semantics over it.  "

" @Silver2467:  1. I know what the discussion is about. Thanks for telling me I guess?  2. And now you're comparing M to the Professor and Surfer, despite her being shown as dramatically weaker then either of the two. I mean, if this is how you want to play it, then let's just throw out a helluva bunch of random comparisons. I've never seen Zoom destroy a planet with his punches. This must mean he can't do it. I've never seen Guy Gardner contain a super nova. This must mean he can't do it. See where I'm going with this? you're busy comparing people like M, who's obviously never shown the level of power Xavier or the Surfer has as though it justifies your argument.  3. No, you won't assume because it fits your argument. I don't think you could provide any real logical, in character evidence to say he couldn't do something like this. Nor am I sure exactly why you're trying to debate with me about this when I clearly stated IF he could do it in my second post in the thread. My point of view is based on that assumption. If you want to change it, prove he can't. I told you that Morpheus_ can provide a better answer then I could.  "

 2. If she demonstrated those abilities, I could care less how powerfully she could perform them. That is irrelevant. The problem is that she has not shown those powers. As for Zoom, he hits harder than SuperMan by gaining momentum and increased mass in his blows as he moves faster than light. Unless he is suddenly supposed to shift his direction down to punch at the earth when he runs, which would cause him to lose all momentum anyway, he cannot destroy a planet. 
3.  

@Lance Uppercut

I mean, if this is how you want to play it, then let's just throw out a helluva bunch of random comparisons. No, you won't assume because it fits your argument. I don't think you could provide any real logical, in character evidence to say he couldn't do something like this. Nor am I sure exactly why you're trying to debate with me about this when I clearly stated IF he could do it in my second post in the thread. My point of view is based on that assumption. 

" @czarny_samael: If there was a statement made that Surfer could protect others telepathically, then I would accept that. The problem is that, as of yet, I have not evidence to support the claim that he can. Telepaths are not all the same. If it were an ability that is the same, no matter who uses it, then I would not complain, but telepathy is different for different telepaths. As for who Despero can control, Nova and Gladiator's resistances do not outweigh the Martian's based on feats, who Despero has easily mentally dominated.  "

" @Push: Again, Gladiator does not have the feats to say he could resist a telepath on the order of Despero and, to my knowledge, neither does Beta Ray Bill. As for the scans you showed, he has also withstood attacks from numerous JLA powerhouses on par with SuperMan and defeated several using physical power alone.  "

Again, they don't have too.  It's not Despero vs Gladiator, or BRB, it's Despero vs Gladiator, BRB, SS, Quasar, Nova and Ronan.  Nova's provenn himself enough to actually request and lead this team, having fought in now three of the biggest cosmic/universal wars in Marvel, so one thing this team is not gonna lack, is teamwork and leadership.  Despero will be lucky to get to or take down the weakest link, Ronan, before Ronan's team gets to him and drops him something chronic.  Sorry, this is a no contest, seriously, as I honestly believe that Despero vs SS alone is a battle he would struggle with, throw in the rest of this killer team, and again, people need to stop pitting a single being, unless he's close to skyfather level, at taking on, let alone downn, this team of Cosmic Avengers.  I recall seeing a Majestic vs this team thread not long ago, again, silly imo. "