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#1 Posted by Spartan101 (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

Despero arrives on earth,fully bloodlusted and wants to take it over,the 2 team join up and try to stop him,can they?? Fight starts in nyc,200 meters apart.

...............vs...............

,WOLVERINE,CYCLOPS,COLOSSUS,MAGNETO,WARPATH,EMMA FROST,NAMOR,MAGIK,PSYLOCKE,MAGMA,SURGE,STORM,ICEMAN.

,IRONMAN,THOR,WARMACHINE,CAPTAIN BRITAIN,CAPTAIN AMERICA,QUICKSILVER,RED HULK,MS MARVEL,VISION,PROTECTOR.

#2 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio

Can they prepare to fight? I mean, can Emma and Psylocke slow him down and acces TP battle before he will speeblitz her?
 
If yes, then I belive that they can. Their TP will match his for sure. Magik's sorcery should also be effective as much as Protector's tech. 
 
I think that in this case we shuoldn't underestimate Wolvie in this. Adamantium claws could be very usefull here.

#3 Edited by Saren (25682 posts) - - Show Bio

Psylocke has that statement about being an Omega-level telepath but little in the way of feats to back up being on Emma's level. She and Emma are not matching Despero anytime soon. And Despero has beaten Martian Manhunter and Aquaman at the same time in a TP battle anyway.

Edit: She recently psi-blasted Archangel, so I guess there's that.

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#4 Posted by Saren (25682 posts) - - Show Bio

And adamantium claws have never given Wolverine a win over the Hulk, I fail to see why they would help against Despero.

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#5 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

Psylocke has that statement about being an Omega-level telepath but little in the way of feats to back up being on Emma's level. She and Emma are not matching Despero anytime soon. And Despero has beaten Martian Manhunter and Aquaman at the same time in a TP battle anyway.

Edit: She recently psi-blasted Archangel, so I guess there's that.

Who already was transfroming into new Apocalypse. She was able to cage a version of him that later destroyed Shadow King with one move (from behind, but still) in Astral Plane. 
Besides, they only have to slow him and protect his team, not win with him, so we can leave a TP fight alone. 
#6 Posted by vuviper (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Can they prepare to fight? I mean, can Emma and Psylocke slow him down and acces TP battle before he will speeblitz her? If yes, then I belive that they can. Their TP will match his for sure. Magik's sorcery should also be effective as much as Protector's tech. I think that in this case we shuoldn't underestimate Wolvie in this. Adamantium claws could be very usefull here.

He has some level of speed but I don't think he would really speed blitz anyone. I agree that Magik's sorcery could be key. If she can BFRhim, that's probably their best chance of winning.

#7 Posted by Saren (25682 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@CitizenBane said:

Psylocke has that statement about being an Omega-level telepath but little in the way of feats to back up being on Emma's level. She and Emma are not matching Despero anytime soon. And Despero has beaten Martian Manhunter and Aquaman at the same time in a TP battle anyway.

Edit: She recently psi-blasted Archangel, so I guess there's that.

Who already was transfroming into new Apocalypse. She was able to cage a version of him that later destroyed Shadow King with one move (from behind, but still) in Astral Plane. Besides, they only have to slow him and protect his team, not win with him, so we can leave a TP fight alone.

Transforming into a new Apocalypse is nice but it doesn't mean he has psychic abilities on par with Apocalypse. She caged that Archangel after sitting down and entering Warren's mind with his consent while he was in his Angel form, and needed to meditate for that. Presumably she needed time, something she's not going to have in a random encounter against Despero. And Psylocke was defeated by the Shadow King in that same issue, and he didn't seem to have a whole lot of trouble wearing her down with illusions of her brothers and such. So we know she's not on his level. Besides, Despero doesn't have to do this alone. If he's outnumbered, the way he is here, he can just do what he did to the League in Crisis of Conscience and make various members of the Avengers/X-Men his slaves with a touch.

He could make this fight severely lopsided by bringing people like Thor, Iceman and Magneto under his control. Psylocke really doesn't use TP much these days, she's more of the TK ninja girl for whatever reason, so her teaming up with Emma for a telepathic fight in a random encounter is unlikely. Re: AvX, where Emma tried to use TP but Betsy didn't. Their best chance of winning is BFR via Magik, but again if Despero brings her under his control before that happens then they're in for a rough time.

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#8 Posted by CreamPieMe (58 posts) - - Show Bio

Despero's head is going up someones a$$

#9 Posted by fangirl101 (551 posts) - - Show Bio

Good Lord. Despero is going to control half the teams. And Mind blast the others into comas. Anyone else gets one shot killed. 

#10 Posted by Lvenger (20039 posts) - - Show Bio

Desparo takes this. Even with the odds against him he could just take control of some of the Avengers and X-Men's heavy hitters as he does with the JLA in the scans above and turn the odds in his favour.

@CreamPieMe: Explain how that will happen.

#11 Posted by Saren (25682 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't think it's fair to send this A/X team against a bloodlusted Despero when they have no idea what they're facing. A little knowledge would go a long way.

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#12 Posted by Spartan101 (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane: I agree,but these character deal with those odds alot of the time,so their adaptive tranning compensates in many ways helps them form an attack/defense at soon as a fight breaks out helping to deal with unknown foes/forces i guess.

#13 Posted by Saren (25682 posts) - - Show Bio

@Spartan101 said:

@CitizenBane: I agree,but these character deal with those odds alot of the time,so their adaptive tranning compensates in many ways helps them form an attack/defense at soon as a fight breaks out helping to deal with unknown foes/forces i guess.

If you say so.

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#14 Posted by fangirl101 (551 posts) - - Show Bio
@Spartan101: How do they adapt to being dead in the first few seconds? 
#15 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

Can they prepare to fight? I mean, can Emma and Psylocke slow him down and acces TP battle before he will speeblitz her? If yes, then I belive that they can. Their TP will match his for sure. Magik's sorcery should also be effective as much as Protector's tech. I think that in this case we shuoldn't underestimate Wolvie in this. Adamantium claws could be very usefull here.

He has some level of speed but I don't think he would really speed blitz anyone. I agree that Magik's sorcery could be key. If she can BFRhim, that's probably their best chance of winning.


Thanks, I've chcked that, You're right his speed isn't that impresive.
@CitizenBane
1.This Arachangel putted down Shadow King and later Phoenix (Jean) from AoA.
2.Hulk has high level healling factor - Despero doesn't.
In the meantime, I've looked for Despero's best fights (including this one) and it seems that to TP connection he need his eye-beam. I don't see a reason why he would even have a chance to do it. Each time he was attacked by sharp object he was hurt, let alone Starro, who is above these people, but by Vixen, Hawkman, sharks and Aquaman did pretty well against him.  Despero was hurt by Aquaman attack from behind, he also don't seem to be faster than Wolverine, so I don't see why he should be able to avoid getting his head cutted off again in one on one battle. But here, it would be Magneto who will own him.
Despero's TP is highly based on hypnosis and his durability - like Hulk's - gives him the edge in fight with strong people like Superman (who also was able to hold him on his own until Despero used his eye against him), but he doesn't have really too many strength feats (he couldn't break Hal's chain-construct) or fights won by strength. Aquaman in water won with him and this is acctually the only brute-type battle that he had.
His energy projection durability also isn't that great, since Sueprman was able to burn through him with first HV shot and we all know that he never starts with high level shots that burns whole bodies of his enemies. 
 
If Despero wouldn't have his hypnotic eye, Superman would crush, burn or speedblitz him in one on one battle. His eye has greater power than Martian's psionic, but it also works more like Loki's spells than really affects Your telepathy defense.
BTW, in Your own scans Hal Jordan reflected Despero's beam, if Batman would distract him and let beam shot Hal, he wouldn't take control over him.
 
 
In this fight, before Despero would even have a chance to use his hypnotic eye, he already will have to fight in AP with Emma, which will at least distract him. Mjolnir will punch him through the face and Magneto will throw hundreds of sharp objects through his body.   
 
Now I know that Despero is overrated here.
#16 Posted by fangirl101 (551 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael666: Over Rated? Despero basically one shot Wonder Woman, Superman, and Captain Marvel at the same time. Took out Powergirl, Hour Man, Hawkman, Sand, and Liberty bell, without breaking a sweat. He then caught the Rock of Ages, without faltering, and even took a blast from Jonny Sorrow's face, and only got exorcised. Most beings die. 
#17 Posted by Saren (25682 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: I'll reply to that a little later since I have to step out now, but a lot of that is kinda wrong, and so I'm not sure whether that's the reason you think Despero is overrated or not.

Moderator
#18 Posted by vuviper (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

@fangirl101 said:

@czarny_samael666: Over Rated? Despero basically one shot Wonder Woman, Superman, and Captain Marvel at the same time. Took out Powergirl, Hour Man, Hawkman, Sand, and Liberty bell, without breaking a sweat. He then caught the Rock of Ages, without faltering, and even took a blast from Jonny Sorrow's face, and only got exorcised. Most beings die.

:-). Not pointing it out to be mean, it just made me smile. I do want to see that movie though

@czarny_samael666 said:


Thanks, I've chcked that, You're right his speed isn't that impresive.
@CitizenBane : 1.This Arachangel putted down Shadow King and later Phoenix (Jean) from AoA. 2.Hulk has high level healling factor - Despero doesn't.In the meantime, I've looked for Despero's best fights (including this one) and it seems that to TP connection he need his eye-beam. I don't see a reason why he would even have a chance to do it. Each time he was attacked by sharp object he was hurt, let alone Starro, who is above these people, but by Vixen, Hawkman, sharks and Aquaman did pretty well against him. Despero was hurt by Aquaman attack from behind, he also don't seem to be faster than Wolverine, so I don't see why he should be able to avoid getting his head cutted off again in one on one battle. But here, it would be Magneto who will own him.Despero's TP is highly based on hypnosis and his durability - like Hulk's - gives him the edge in fight with strong people like Superman (who also was able to hold him on his own until Despero used his eye against him), but he doesn't have really too many strength feats (he couldn't break Hal's chain-construct) or fights won by strength. Aquaman in water won with him and this is acctually the only brute-type battle that he had. His energy projection durability also isn't that great, since Sueprman was able to burn through him with first HV shot and we all know that he never starts with high level shots that burns whole bodies of his enemies. If Despero wouldn't have his hypnotic eye, Superman would crush, burn or speedblitz him in one on one battle. His eye has greater power than Martian's psionic, but it also works more like Loki's spells than really affects Your telepathy defense. BTW, in Your own scans Hal Jordan reflected Despero's beam, if Batman would distract him and let beam shot Hal, he wouldn't take control over him. In this fight, before Despero would even have a chance to use his hypnotic eye, he already will have to fight in AP with Emma, which will at least distract him. Mjolnir will punch him through the face and Magneto will throw hundreds of sharp objects through his body. Now I know that Despero is overrated here.

2. Despero can regenerate his body from having his head severed.

He laughed off bullet fire so his getting cut by sharks is questionable.

Despero's TP isn't based on hypnosis. He has telepathy and hypnosis. He used hypnosis on the Flash because the flash was given protection from Despero's telepathy.

Doesn't have strength feats? He one shots Superman, Wonder WOman, power girl, and Captain Marvel (who had taken power from Mary Marvel, Freddy Freeman, and Black Adam), Sand threw the rock of eternity at him and he just caught it.

You saw in the scan that it took all of Jordan's strength to keep from being mind controlled, and considering that his automatic inhibitors protect him from Hector Hammond and he's stated it could protect him from the Martian, it's reasonable

#19 Posted by The_Red_Blur (225 posts) - - Show Bio

Despero

#20 Posted by Almighty_Darkseid (1724 posts) - - Show Bio

despero stomps

#21 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666: I'll reply to that a little later since I have to step out now, but a lot of that is kinda wrong, and so I'm not sure whether that's the reason you think Despero is overrated or not.

There is a reason to not belive into Despero too much, but not in that high level. I have to admitt that I forgot that Despero was looking stronger than Martian in their fight. My bad. 
It mostly comes from suprise that it makes on face,  since I always thought that Despero is Pre-TI Thanos level. Now... Someone who loses to Aquaman can't be considered as a powerhouse (in strength, since his eye-beam is usefull).
 
 @fangirl101 said:
@czarny_samael666: Over Rated? Despero basically one shot Wonder Woman, Superman, and Captain Marvel at the same time. Took out Powergirl, Hour Man, Hawkman, Sand, and Liberty bell, without breaking a sweat. He then caught the Rock of Ages, without faltering, and even took a blast from Jonny Sorrow's face, and only got exorcised. Most beings die. 

None of them was really defeated. They were just knocked off. Like Sentry by Thor in the beginning of Siege, yet no one would say that Thor won a battle with Sentry just because of that one punch. 
 
It matters how he was fighting with them. They've attacked him, he throw Super at Cap. Hawkman hurt him, but Despero had a chance to response with TK-beam from his eye. It is the same way he took out Power Girl. If he would have a chance to use it on X-Men and Avengers, then yeah, it would be a close one, since he will turn them on his side, but a)he doesn't start his battle with this kind of attack (while Logan is always stabbing, Magneto is always throwing something on enemy, even while he should just most time control iron in their blood). 
 
And You're saying that as Despero would really won a battle or do it without being hurt. He didn't won and he was hurt by sharp obejcts in almost all of his apperances. In fight with JLA - Hawkman makes him bleed. In fight with Plastic Man, Red Tornado, Vixen and Dr. Light, Vixen was able to do that. When he came second time after his rebirth on Martian, Aquaman and sharks did it. I only don't remember such a situation in fight with Martian nor Guy nor Lobo, but he wasn't fighting with whole team and this fight was a mess since Fire and Guy also attacked Lobo there.
 And it isn't that impresive, when You consider a fact that Fire was able to hurt him. That Guy knoked him back, but as Despero agaisnt Supe - he wasn't going to finish the job, that Lobo was BFR'd (and Guy started to fight with him), that Hal blocked his eye-beam (so Thor can do the same and possibly even abosrb it as he did with Rachel-Phoenix Psi-blast), Dr. Light had him on kness and Red Tornado was meesing around with him until he get to close to Despero and KOd people from his own team. And this fight with Aquaman...

Here, before he would even have a chance to do anything he will be attacked from so many different powers:
They are 200 meters a part, so Thor will throw Mjolnir at him, Quicksilver, Ms. Marvel and Cap B. will speedblitz him, Colossus wil make a fastball speciall with Wolverine, Magneto will try to imprison him/throw something at him and for sure - Emma will try to put him down by TP. 
 
@vuviper said:


2. Despero can regenerate his body from having his head severed.

He laughed off bullet fire so his getting cut by sharks is questionable.

Despero's TP isn't based on hypnosis. He has telepathy and hypnosis. He used hypnosis on the Flash because the flash was given protection from Despero's telepathy.

Doesn't have strength feats? He one shots Superman, Wonder WOman, power girl, and Captain Marvel (who had taken power from Mary Marvel, Freddy Freeman, and Black Adam), Sand threw the rock of eternity at him and he just caught it.

You saw in the scan that it took all of Jordan's strength to keep from being mind controlled, and considering that his automatic inhibitors protect him from Hector Hammond and he's stated it could protect him from the Martian, it's reasonable

1.Scan?
2.He was hurt in this way at least four time in three different fights. 
3.Some TP feats without using beam from his eye?
4.Somehow all these people were good later. Knocked off? On their knees for a second? Yeah, but - besides Wonder Woman - no one even seemed to be taken out. WW is the only one and it would be great feat, but don't tell me that it isn't suprising and I would rather call these a PIS moment, since no one other was taken out as easily as she was. But if You insist I can give it too him. Yet, it still is in opposite to his other fights. 
5.Hal was doing everything to hold eye beam, not clear TP. And Hal doesn't have auto-TP shields, he has to tunr them and he didn't do that here.
#22 Posted by Spartan101 (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

would emma frost link to all the members from the start and warn them about his TP? she would sense his high TP power for sure,if so its a sort of prep?

#23 Posted by fangirl101 (551 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael666: You severely underestimate Despero. And you too easily equate his being hurt, in different forms, with his massive strength and tp advantages. And he also can teleport, and take over any body he chooses. Making him more or less powerful depending on the body. 
#24 Posted by Saren (25682 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: I actually have more scans to assemble than I thought, so I might respond tomorrow. Too much on hand right now.

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#25 Posted by blackadamFTW (7867 posts) - - Show Bio

Despero should take this.

#26 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666: I actually have more scans to assemble than I thought, so I might respond tomorrow. Too much on hand right now.

Then tell me when did it happen, I can look for some of them on my own, it would make it debate more understandable for each other.
 
@fangirl101 said:
@czarny_samael666: You severely underestimate Despero. And you too easily equate his being hurt, in different forms, with his massive strength and tp advantages. And he also can teleport, and take over any body he chooses. Making him more or less powerful depending on the body. 

I am just putting what happened there. 
I am also talking about different fights, so it is hard to say that he usualy isn't hurt in this way, when he is in pretty much all of his fights. 
X-Men and Avengers are made out of different characters than ones that attacked him there. They don't go just physically on their target and they have their own telepaths on the team. 
 
Imagine, if Vixen can make him bleed and Aquaman can put a pole through his body, then what will Wolverine do? I don't see why Despero should be considered as a someone faster than Logan and I don't see a reason why Despero should survive with head cutted out of his corpse.
#27 Posted by Saren (25682 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: Some are from Justice League Task Force, some are from Supergirl, some are from R.E.B.E.L.S.....

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#28 Posted by Spartan101 (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

magnetos helmet block TB?

#29 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

@czarny_samael666: Some are from Justice League Task Force, some are from Supergirl, some are from R.E.B.E.L.S.....

In Supergirl he was defeated by boosted Supergirl, but he didn't show anything impresive there. He had a chance to win this fight, but his repeated punches had little effect on her and his eye-blast couldn't get through her HV, until she made herself vulnerable. 
 
IN R.E.B.E.L.S., he only show that he can survive as a head and that, yes he heal himself, by not that it would mean anything here, since it would take him weeks to regenerate.
 
About which issues of JLTF are You talking? Because there were a lot of issues in which he was present.
#30 Posted by spawn_123 (1693 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

Can they prepare to fight? I mean, can Emma and Psylocke slow him down and acces TP battle before he will speeblitz her? If yes, then I belive that they can. Their TP will match his for sure. Magik's sorcery should also be effective as much as Protector's tech. I think that in this case we shuoldn't underestimate Wolvie in this. Adamantium claws could be very usefull here.
#31 Posted by Nefarious (20461 posts) - - Show Bio

Despero still wins.  

#32 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nefarious said:
Despero still wins.  
Can You elaborate? I was trying to find something really impresive from him, something that would prove that he is really so tough, but all I see is disappointment.
#33 Posted by Nefarious (20461 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael666: Well,he has held his own against a lot of powerhouses.
#34 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nefarious said:

@czarny_samael666: Well,he has held his own against a lot of powerhouses.

As can Abomination, Rulk or Hulk (hyperbole of course to all three, their durability is weaker than Despero's, but You get the point) trough great durability to brutal force. But (IIRC) none of them can take Wolvie's claws on the chest without being harmed. But Logan isn't the main point - Despero seems weak against sharp objects and all his TP feats I've seen came from his eye-blasts, that also seems rather like demonic attack (it can left part of him trying to taking over Your body or turn off Your normal psionic defences if it will hit You). Yet, it was reflected by Supergirl's HV, Hal Jordan blast, Aquaman and Martian psionic blasts. 
It works like psi-blast combined with full hypnotic forces. If it will hit a stone or shield it won't do anything and You're not affected. 
Despero also doesn't have to good reflex, I don't see why it should be considered as one above Logan's or Iron Man reflex. 
Despero can be cutted through, he can survive energy beams from Fire, but not without being knocking on his knees. He is strong, but he also didn't won even one battle IIRC by strength alone (besides Wonder Woman, which seems silly if he fought with 20 other heroes and no one was KOd by his punches), more he lost in water with Aquaman. 
 
Read my ealier posts - what really told You that he can take attack from sharp objects from Magneto? Or fastball special from Colos and Logan? Or Quicksilver's attack? What tells us that he will take Iron Man's shoot without being put on his kness to be an easy target? And why do we assume that he can fight with some bricks like Colossnaut, Rulk or Thor and Emma Frost in Astral Plane in the same time? Why Iceman or Storm can't take him down quickly if Red Tornado was able to throw him around with his wind attack (that later helped Despero against Dr. Light who also was able to put him on his knees). 
 
If I would see Rulk, Colossus, Abomination and let say She-Hulk against him, then I wouldn't be so sure, but here? X-Men and Avengers seems to have everything they needs to put him down fast.
#35 Posted by Spartan101 (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

iceman anyone? pretty sure hes gonna play apart here?

#36 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Spartan101 said:

iceman anyone? pretty sure hes gonna play apart here?

He will, since a)I barely belive that we can say that Iceman will send at him his "clones", b)his ice constructs should make Despero problems as any other sharp object and c)I don't see why Despero's blood can't be tuned into ice (X-Men are bloodlusted). 
 
In one-on-one fight, Despero sooner or later will find right body and take control over Iceman, but not when he has his hands full we group of so powerfull and different people.
#37 Posted by Masterr (194 posts) - - Show Bio

Despero should take it.

#38 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Masterr said:

Despero should take it.

Again: How and why?
#39 Posted by Spartan101 (2355 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: i said before in an early post that emma would likely link up and tell all the team that hes a powerful TP for she would sense his TP power from the off,giving the team an heads up might prove vital in this. is magneto in his helmet protected from TP?

#40 Posted by SHAZAM117 (3028 posts) - - Show Bio

I think team A/X can beat Despero...This would be a close fight imo....Emma and Betty should be able to provide a good TP defense...and as far as I know Mags helmet should be able to block any TP attacks from Despero, if it can stop Prof-X from entering his mind.....I don't know, I'm on the fence with this one. Could go either way probably...I don't think however that Despero stomps this team though, he would have a good fight .....I'm slightly leaning towards A/X

#41 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@Spartan101 said:

@czarny_samael666: i said before in an early post that emma would likely link up and tell all the team that hes a powerful TP for she would sense his TP power from the off,giving the team an heads up might prove vital in this. is magneto in his helmet protected from TP?

1.Most of his TP comes from his eye, I've didn't seen him using it without it. And I doubt that normal TP can block it without Psi-blasts.
2.Magneto is immune to TP with his helmet, but I doubt that it protects him from hypnosis, ergo it shouldn't matter here. But Magneto's shields are powerfull enough to hold this balst before it would reach Erick's head.
#42 Posted by SHAZAM117 (3028 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666....Agreed....If this is the REAL Magneto and not the current watered-down version, he is one of the heavy-hitters in this fight.

#43 Posted by ThanoStomp (789 posts) - - Show Bio

The team can take this. The team keeps Despero distracted while Thor charges a Goldblast. That should take him down. As a backup plan, the Vision goes intangible and while Despero is dealing with the others, Vision rips out his heart or brain.

#44 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5439 posts) - - Show Bio

X-Men/Avengers FTW. They take heavy losses though.

#45 Posted by vuviper (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:


1.Scan? 2.He was hurt in this way at least four time in three different fights. 3.Some TP feats without using beam from his eye? 4.Somehow all these people were good later. Knocked off? On their knees for a second? Yeah, but - besides Wonder Woman - no one even seemed to be taken out. WW is the only one and it would be great feat, but don't tell me that it isn't suprising and I would rather call these a PIS moment, since no one other was taken out as easily as she was. But if You insist I can give it too him. Yet, it still is in opposite to his other fights. 5.Hal was doing everything to hold eye beam, not clear TP. And Hal doesn't have auto-TP shields, he has to tunr them and he didn't do that here.
1

2. Sharks and Aquaman were in the same arc so I don't know what you're talking about. 3. I never said he had any...I said he has hypnosis and TP. 4. Um yes, they were fine later, but they were out for the remainder of the fight. How is it PIS? The Justice League never have been able to take Despero down physically. 5. First you say the eye beam is TP then you say it isn't. If it isn't TP why did he get mind controlled the second he stopped concentrating? WHy didn't he just get knocked out?. And es Hal has autoshields, I've given you a scan saying Hal is automatically protected by the ring, a scan showing that the ring could put up psi inhibitors before Hal could think, and a scan that shows Hal turning off his shields to allow Hector Hammond into his mind.

#46 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:

@czarny_samael666 said:


1.Scan? 2.He was hurt in this way at least four time in three different fights. 3.Some TP feats without using beam from his eye? 4.Somehow all these people were good later. Knocked off? On their knees for a second? Yeah, but - besides Wonder Woman - no one even seemed to be taken out. WW is the only one and it would be great feat, but don't tell me that it isn't suprising and I would rather call these a PIS moment, since no one other was taken out as easily as she was. But if You insist I can give it too him. Yet, it still is in opposite to his other fights. 5.Hal was doing everything to hold eye beam, not clear TP. And Hal doesn't have auto-TP shields, he has to tunr them and he didn't do that here.
1

2. Sharks and Aquaman were in the same arc so I don't know what you're talking about. 3. I never said he had any...I said he has hypnosis and TP. 4. Um yes, they were fine later, but they were out for the remainder of the fight. How is it PIS? The Justice League never have been able to take Despero down physically. 5. First you say the eye beam is TP then you say it isn't. If it isn't TP why did he get mind controlled the second he stopped concentrating? WHy didn't he just get knocked out?. And es Hal has autoshields, I've given you a scan saying Hal is automatically protected by the ring, a scan showing that the ring could put up psi inhibitors before Hal could think, and a scan that shows Hal turning off his shields to allow Hector Hammond into his mind.

1.I thought about normal HF, that can be usefull in battle. I already posted an opinion about R.E.B.E.L.S. above.
 
2.I've 4 times in 3 different occasions. Two that happened in the same story are exactly sharks and fight with Aquaman. Others happened in 2 other fights.  I don't see how does it make anything less important.

3.Oh, sorry I thought that You're saying that he can use standard TP without contact with his eye-beam. Does it really change anything? Hypnosis are much more usefull than TP in his case. 

4.Because Despero has great durability to blunt force. It is like fighting Juggernaut or Mangog. I don't think that anyone below Thanos/ Classic Drax can really KO Despero with brute force. Only PIS moment for me is taking WW in one punch, since I don't see any other enemy who would putted so easily and he fought with many of them (Martian, Superman, Aquaman, Supergirl, Lobo, Guy Gardner, etc.). I see also some misunderstanding here: point isn't that Despero isn't superstrong - point is that I don't see why he should be considered as a someone close to Superman in strength. For example, I don't see Hulk, Superman or Thor winning with him in physical fight, but I also don't see these fights as a complete stomp in Despero's favor. We had similar problem with Lord Mar-Vell. In theory he fought with many powerfull beings, whole Annihilators someone would say, highly impresive, etc. but can we say that LMV proved that (for example) his speed is in Nova's level or that he is stronger physically than Surfer? I don't think so, but yes it was a great showing of his energy projection as much as here Despero has shown great durability to blunt force. 
Can You say that he will take out Superman/Thor in few punches?
 
5.No, I was answering on two things. A)That eye-beam isn't TP (I've read his fight with Supergirl, so I can say that it can be count as a Psi-Blast, so this point shouldn't matter anymore) and B)that even against Hammond (You've mentioned it ealier) he had to turn on his TP-shields, I wasn't refering this point to fight between Hal and Despero. Scan about You're takling about (Hal vs. JLA) was only Hal's imagination and I am pretty sure I've answered on that scan in other thread ealier.
#47 Posted by vuviper (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@vuviper said:
1.I thought about normal HF, that can be usefull in battle. I already posted an opinion about R.E.B.E.L.S. above.

2.I've 4 times in 3 different occasions. Two that happened in the same story are exactly sharks and fight with Aquaman. Others happened in 2 other fights. I don't see how does it make anything less important.

3.Oh, sorry I thought that You're saying that he can use standard TP without contact with his eye-beam. Does it really change anything? Hypnosis are much more usefull than TP in his case.

4.Because Despero has great durability to blunt force. It is like fighting Juggernaut or Mangog. I don't think that anyone below Thanos/ Classic Drax can really KO Despero with brute force. Only PIS moment for me is taking WW in one punch, since I don't see any other enemy who would putted so easily and he fought with many of them (Martian, Superman, Aquaman, Supergirl, Lobo, Guy Gardner, etc.). I see also some misunderstanding here: point isn't that Despero isn't superstrong - point is that I don't see why he should be considered as a someone close to Superman in strength. For example, I don't see Hulk, Superman or Thor winning with him in physical fight, but I also don't see these fights as a complete stomp in Despero's favor. We had similar problem with Lord Mar-Vell. In theory he fought with many powerfull beings, whole Annihilators someone would say, highly impresive, etc. but can we say that LMV proved that (for example) his speed is in Nova's level or that he is stronger physically than Surfer? I don't think so, but yes it was a great showing of his energy projection as much as here Despero has shown great durability to blunt force. Can You say that he will take out Superman/Thor in few punches? 5.No, I was answering on two things. A)That eye-beam isn't TP (I've read his fight with Supergirl, so I can say that it can be count as a Psi-Blast, so this point shouldn't matter anymore) and B)that even against Hammond (You've mentioned it ealier) he had to turn on his TP-shields, I wasn't refering this point to fight between Hal and Despero. Scan about You're takling about (Hal vs. JLA) was only Hal's imagination and I am pretty sure I've answered on that scan in other thread ealier.

1. If it takes weeks to regrow an entire body, he obviously has pretty good regeneration. Not Martian manhunter good, but good enough that cuts should heal up well.

2. What are the other times you're talking about then?

3. OK

4. Just because you don't actually see Captain Marvel and Superman hit the ground doesn't mean they weren't taken out in one shot. And yes, this showing is hist best showing, but his other showings make him out to be considerably stronger as well. The same thing happens in many of his other fights as happens in this fight, he hits them a few times and clearly has the upper hand and then is attacked by even more heroes while those heroes he just whooped recover. They few one on one periods are usually with Martian Manhunter who gets completely beaten every time. Martian Manhunter is physically as strong as Superman/Thor so yes I think Despero can take them out in a few punches.

5.When do you see him turn on his TP shield against Hammond? It was Jordan talking about his rings capabilities, we don't have any reason do doubt the fact that it would have been up in time, just whether it would stop the martian or not.

#48 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17174 posts) - - Show Bio
@vuviper said:

@czarny_samael666 said:

@vuviper said:
1.I thought about normal HF, that can be usefull in battle. I already posted an opinion about R.E.B.E.L.S. above.

2.I've 4 times in 3 different occasions. Two that happened in the same story are exactly sharks and fight with Aquaman. Others happened in 2 other fights. I don't see how does it make anything less important.

3.Oh, sorry I thought that You're saying that he can use standard TP without contact with his eye-beam. Does it really change anything? Hypnosis are much more usefull than TP in his case.

4.Because Despero has great durability to blunt force. It is like fighting Juggernaut or Mangog. I don't think that anyone below Thanos/ Classic Drax can really KO Despero with brute force. Only PIS moment for me is taking WW in one punch, since I don't see any other enemy who would putted so easily and he fought with many of them (Martian, Superman, Aquaman, Supergirl, Lobo, Guy Gardner, etc.). I see also some misunderstanding here: point isn't that Despero isn't superstrong - point is that I don't see why he should be considered as a someone close to Superman in strength. For example, I don't see Hulk, Superman or Thor winning with him in physical fight, but I also don't see these fights as a complete stomp in Despero's favor. We had similar problem with Lord Mar-Vell. In theory he fought with many powerfull beings, whole Annihilators someone would say, highly impresive, etc. but can we say that LMV proved that (for example) his speed is in Nova's level or that he is stronger physically than Surfer? I don't think so, but yes it was a great showing of his energy projection as much as here Despero has shown great durability to blunt force. Can You say that he will take out Superman/Thor in few punches? 5.No, I was answering on two things. A)That eye-beam isn't TP (I've read his fight with Supergirl, so I can say that it can be count as a Psi-Blast, so this point shouldn't matter anymore) and B)that even against Hammond (You've mentioned it ealier) he had to turn on his TP-shields, I wasn't refering this point to fight between Hal and Despero. Scan about You're takling about (Hal vs. JLA) was only Hal's imagination and I am pretty sure I've answered on that scan in other thread ealier.

1. If it takes weeks to regrow an entire body, he obviously has pretty good regeneration. Not Martian manhunter good, but good enough that cuts should heal up well.

2. What are the other times you're talking about then?

3. OK

4. Just because you don't actually see Captain Marvel and Superman hit the ground doesn't mean they weren't taken out in one shot. And yes, this showing is hist best showing, but his other showings make him out to be considerably stronger as well. The same thing happens in many of his other fights as happens in this fight, he hits them a few times and clearly has the upper hand and then is attacked by even more heroes while those heroes he just whooped recover. They few one on one periods are usually with Martian Manhunter who gets completely beaten every time. Martian Manhunter is physically as strong as Superman/Thor so yes I think Despero can take them out in a few punches.

5.When do you see him turn on his TP shield against Hammond? It was Jordan talking about his rings capabilities, we don't have any reason do doubt the fact that it would have been up in time, just whether it would stop the martian or not.

1.Speculation IMO. Or in other words: I've didn't seen in battles anything that would help in this area.
2.As I've said before: Hawk Man (when Despero fought with JLA in Washington) by his mace and Vixen (when he defeated Dr. Light by Red Tornado's whirlwind) by her (panthera's as we could see) claws.
4.I see Your point, but saying that Despero is strong enough to win with that kind of characters is one thing and saying that he can take them out in few punches is different thing. Thor once one shotted Abomination, but I wouldn't use it as a prove that he can repeat the same thing on Hulk, even while Hulk is in the beginning of fight weaker than Hulk. BRB was able to knock Surfer of the board, yet he was curbstomped in the same battle.Thing won with Sentry-robot, when Colossus and She-Hulk failed, but would it mean that since he is stronger than Sentries he can take down She-Hulk and Colossus at the same time in less than 20 seconds? My point is Despero is strong enough to  hurt that people and thanks to his own awesome durability he can win with them, but not in few punches. He doesn't have feats outside of battles that would support that and his fight-feats in bigger percent support my point than Yours. 
5.When he was going out of some building, he said "psionic (on something like that) shields on". It were his thoughts and point of whole thing was that he wanted to prove that he has plan to take out JLA. Plan = prep = time to turn on this shields. And... not that is realy matters here, but Jordan is overconfident.
#49 Posted by vuviper (5531 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666 said:

@vuviper said:
1.Speculation IMO. Or in other words: I've didn't seen in battles anything that would help in this area. 2.As I've said before: Hawk Man (when Despero fought with JLA in Washington) by his mace and Vixen (when he defeated Dr. Light by Red Tornado's whirlwind) by her (panthera's as we could see) claws. 4.I see Your point, but saying that Despero is strong enough to win with that kind of characters is one thing and saying that he can take them out in few punches is different thing. Thor once one shotted Abomination, but I wouldn't use it as a prove that he can repeat the same thing on Hulk, even while Hulk is in the beginning of fight weaker than Hulk. BRB was able to knock Surfer of the board, yet he was curbstomped in the same battle.Thing won with Sentry-robot, when Colossus and She-Hulk failed, but would it mean that since he is stronger than Sentries he can take down She-Hulk and Colossus at the same time in less than 20 seconds? My point is Despero is strong enough to hurt that people and thanks to his own awesome durability he can win with them, but not in few punches. He doesn't have feats outside of battles that would support that and his fight-feats in bigger percent support my point than Yours. 5.When he was going out of some building, he said "psionic (on something like that) shields on". It were his thoughts and point of whole thing was that he wanted to prove that he has plan to take out JLA. Plan = prep = time to turn on this shields. And... not that is realy matters here, but Jordan is overconfident.

1. It's extrapolation, and you've seen his cuts heal in the example with Aquaman, etc.

2. Oh ok, I don't believe you've said them to me, but if I missed it my apologies, but those are surface wounds and didn't slow him down at all... what are you trying to show with these examples.

4. He's strong enough to bring a superman lvl character to his knees in a single blow. Maybe not one shot hit, but once they're hit, their too busy needing to recover and if not for other heroes showing up, he could destroy them.

You sure about that?

Superman level characters either being taken out of the fight completely or left helpless from one blow. Other than Lobo and Supergirl Angel have you ever seen any character take more than one blow from Despero in succession?

5. No he went outside the building, someone asked if he needed a psi inhibitor and he stated he already had one and flashed his ring. He didn't turn it on. If he had needed to turn it on, Hammond would have already taken him memories at that point.

#50 Posted by jeanroygrant (20191 posts) - - Show Bio

@czarny_samael666: @CitizenBane: Thor can maybe BFR him