#1 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

Okay I really want to see this be debated. The demons are having trouble with Mad Jim Jasper, they all gather together to completely stop him.

Black Heart

Limbo Magik

Shuma Gorath

Zom

Hell-Lord Daimon Hellstrom

Nightmare

Chthon

Surtur with Twilight Sword

Hela

Satannish

Mephisto

Lucifer

Dormammu

Dweller of Darkness

Set

They are all at ultimate power. They do not need to be in their realms to be all powerful.

VS.

They big team has 1 year prep and MJJ does not.

Round 1: Earth-238 Mad Jim Jaspers

Round 2: Earth-616 Mad Jim Jaspers

Can they team defeat him? Or will he just erase them?

Who wins?

Theme of fight:

#2 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump...Who wins?

#3 Posted by New_World_Order (13189 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump, interesting match !

#4 Posted by TheDEMON! (468 posts) - - Show Bio

demons wins. too many numbers and some elder gods are @ multiversal levels.

#5 Edited by King-Stranglehold da first (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Bump, interesting match !

Thanks man.

#6 Edited by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

They take his soul and torture it in hell forever. Mephisto could concoct a plan to steal MJJ soul within one year.

Souless MJJ wont be a problem, if demon lords have the soul under their control

#7 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@whydama said:

They take his soul and torture it in hell forever.

How? Just asking.@TheDEMON! said:

demons wins. too many numbers and some elder gods are @ multiversal levels.

Is there any proof that they are multiversal?

#8 Posted by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@King-Stranglehold da first:

Prob a demon deal through one of MJJ's ancestors

#9 Posted by joeagentofhand1 (4362 posts) - - Show Bio

I am not sure, but I see team one winning only due to numbers though.

#10 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@whydama said:

@King-Stranglehold da first:

Prob a demon deal through one of MJJ's ancestors

How will that effect some one on MJJ level? Just asking.

#11 Posted by New_World_Order (13189 posts) - - Show Bio

@King-Stranglehold da first said:

@ThunderGodsWrath said:

Bump, interesting match !

Thanks man.

No problem

#12 Posted by New_World_Order (13189 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers beats them all

#13 Posted by Chaos Prime (10842 posts) - - Show Bio

With a years prep cant see why they dont win this encounter.All they need to do is find a reality where his powers will be void & lay the trap to teleport him there.Then even the lowest ranking Demon will have enough to lop off his head :)

#14 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio

Thing about Jaspers is he has the potential to be extraordinarily powerful in ways others can't match. So his power fluctuates/increases and in many senses you could look at the character on one page on a book and the next page his powers have increased dramatically - since they grew. So when one uses him like a few other characters in such threads its important to identify at what levels of power is (either) Jaspers at? At the height of his powers? Can he exceed those powers as shown on panel as what would be implied as their natural progression? The character was insane so his increase in power probably won't/wouldn't increase his competency in using them nor say his ability to use his power to develop his burgeoning power faster. Like say perhaps increase his mental faculties. Not by virtue of that alone.

Really I think the team should win here, more times than not, since even if you use an advanced version of Jaspers with more raw power than any of them combined with his typical intellect/natural reasoning skills and abilities they should be able to use their higher level of thinking to exploit his insanity/mental competency, especially since they have time to plan and think than say get caught in the Jaspers warp. The only way I could see Jaspers winning is if we use some hypothetical version that could use his abilities to widen his perceptions to degrees that could match his exponentially increasing raw reality remaking powers - not that his insanity meant he wasn't intelligent, but it was still ultimately fallible, and probably still somewhat grounded by his natural capabilities (even if they were expanded subsequently)

Moderator
#15 Posted by Lord_Johnathan (3300 posts) - - Show Bio

Didn't Jaspers get owned by the Fury?

#16 Edited by whydama (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

@King-Stranglehold da first:

If Demon Lords control someone's soul, they can make him/her think whatever they want. Since MJJ is mad, it would be quite easy to make him hallucinate and control him.

With the mind and spirit under their control. demon lords can control MJJ like a puppet

#17 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheDEMON! said:

demons wins. too many numbers and some elder gods are @ multiversal levels.

Chthon has few canon extra-universal counterarts, but he is explicitly shown to share an origin with Gaea and Set both of whom are shown to have alternate universe counterparts who are clearly separate beings.

and that's presuming cartoons and the like don't fit into the mainstream multiverse

Elder Gods aren't multiversal

#18 Posted by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheDEMON! said:

demons wins. too many numbers and some elder gods are @ multiversal levels.

none of them elder gods are multiversal, unless you are trying to somehow drag Oshtur's vishanti powers even then she doesnt really have feats to warrent multiversal status.

@Lord_Johnathan said:

Didn't Jaspers get owned by the Fury?

Well Fury were his kryptonite, Jasper has only 2 real weakness, apart from the whole insanity part:

1. Fury were completely immune of Jasper's wrap, and thus far on panel, Fury have been the only one shown immune.

2. He is powerless where no reality exists.

If anything its his mental problems and his other easily exploitable weakness that is what would cost him the win, else MJJ really has both raw powers and potential to actually take this team head on, with only 2 real problems here, Shuma Gorath and Zom.

#19 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim can't beat any of these guys save for Hela, Magik, Surtur and possibly Blackheart (through PIS)

#20 Posted by Hyperlight (5822 posts) - - Show Bio

the team wins. they are all incredibly competent with prep

#21 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

You see this picture?

There's a scan of Mephisto doing the same thing with Silver Surfer.

This is not the picture, but it is based off of that scan.

He grabs the Silver Surfer and he swallows him.

Now if Mephisto can do this. Pretty much anybody besides Magik, Hellstorm, Surtur and Hela can display the same powers Jasper's can do and better. Also, Jaspers is mortal... None of the others are save for Surtur, Hela, Hellstorm and Magik are NOT.... And each have a higher level of comprehension than the 3D James Jasper. Japsers needs 3D space and matter/energy to manipulate his powers. The team (save for Surtur, Hela, Magik and Hellstorm) DO NOT.

#22 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: Those are the same thing....because they look similiar?

(gasp!) Deadpool is a cosmic being on par with the higher Celestials.

Seriously though, MJJ pretty much wrecked a universe, few of these guys are above galaxy busting.

#23 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1:

Oh course Mad Jim Jaspers can wreck the physical universe by destroying one galaxy at a time.

I'm not denying that.

#24 Edited by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: in "Silver Surfer: Judgement day" Mephisto claimed he had enough power to "shatter a galaxy" , now, he was monologuing at this point, so unless we presume Mephisto tries to make himself look weaker than he is for his subject in hell, that would imply that Mephisto has that much power or less. as in, can shatter a galaxy, than he's drained. destroy one two hundred billionth of the physical cosmos, than he's out of juice.

#25 Posted by OmgOmgWtfWtf (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

Depends if Mad Jim Jasper is in the mood to play or not.

#26 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@OmgOmgWtfWtf: yeah, pretty much

#27 Posted by TheDEMON! (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@TheDEMON! said:

demons wins. too many numbers and some elder gods are @ multiversal levels.

Chthon has few canon extra-universal counterarts, but he is explicitly shown to share an origin with Gaea and Set both of whom are shown to have alternate universe counterparts who are clearly separate beings.

and that's presuming cartoons and the like don't fit into the mainstream multiverse

Elder Gods aren't multiversal

dat changes everything and after doing some more reading on MJJ I think he wins now.

#28 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheDEMON!: Cool

#29 Posted by Evil Incarnate (3832 posts) - - Show Bio

Team wins. They all devise to pee in the back of MJJ's toilet so that when he flushes pee fills the bowl. This drives MJJ more insane than he is normally and he kills himself.

#30 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@Evil Incarnate said:

Team wins. They all devise to pee in the back of MJJ's toilet so that when he flushes pee fills the bowl. This drives MJJ more insane than he is normally and he kills himself.

most rational thing I've heard all thread

#31 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL! Do people not remember how Mad Jim Jaspers was defeated and died?

Jamie Bradock's feat of cracking the M'Kraan Crystal seemed more dire than the stuff Jaspers did.

I would place both Molecule Man & Jamie above Mad Jim. And Mad Jim above Proteus & Legion

#32 Posted by TheDEMON! (468 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

LOL! Do people not remember how Mad Jim Jaspers was defeated and died?

Jamie Bradock's feat of cracking the M'Kraan Crystal seemed more dire than the stuff Jaspers did.

I would place both Molecule Man & Jamie above Mad Jim. And Mad Jim above Proteus & Legion

when was this? if your talking about Fury he was created by 616 MJJ to be immune to th MJJ from a different universe. MJJ wins this especially the 616 one.

#33 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lord_Johnathan said:

Didn't Jaspers get owned by the Fury?

A Fury created by another Jaspers. So arguably you could say Jaspers owned Jaspers.

Moderator
#34 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - - Show Bio

@SC said:

@Lord_Johnathan said:

Didn't Jaspers get owned by the Fury?

A Fury created by another Jaspers. So arguably you could say Jaspers owned Jaspers.

But who created Jaspers? Or should I ask it this way. Which one of those demon's sister spawned Mad Jim Jaspers through natural selection of evolution?

#35 Posted by SC (13108 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheSecondOpinion: Gaea/Celestials/Oprah.

Moderator
#36 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lord_Johnathan said:

Didn't Jaspers get owned by the Fury?

That thing is an exception, then again he can set Furies at the lords

#37 Posted by ShootingNova (17080 posts) - - Show Bio

MJJ pretty much becomes powerless when there is a lack of reality. It is pretty much if team 1 can remove reality (or even weaken it).

#38 Edited by ShootingNova (17080 posts) - - Show Bio

Ultimate power means everybody is in their prime, yes? Shuma-Gorath is supposed to be omnipotent but obviously that is not true.

However, I do think it is possible for team 1 to destroy reality (or fracture it severely), if all are in their prime.

#39 Posted by A Touch of Class (ATC) (572 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers may be vulnerable when inside a void with no reality to warp. However, he's not simply going to let anybody pull him into a void. If transporting him there was so simple, someone else surely would have done it. How are any of these demons going to force MJJ to go where he doesn't want to go? The only reason why The Fury could do so was because he was Jaspers's own personal plot device.

#40 Posted by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio

An amped up Mephisto has been humilated by Franklin Richard, 7 hell lords humiliated by Atum, most of these hell lords arent much more than fodders against MJJ, unless his specific weakness is being exploited.

Shuma Gorath is the biggest problem here, followed by Dormammu and Zom. Those are the three top canons that should turn the tide for the team.

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: in "Silver Surfer: Judgement day" Mephisto claimed he had enough power to "shatter a galaxy" , now, he was monologuing at this point, so unless we presume Mephisto tries to make himself look weaker than he is for his subject in hell, that would imply that Mephisto has that much power or less. as in, can shatter a galaxy, than he's drained. destroy one two hundred billionth of the physical cosmos, than he's out of juice.

We have seen direct comparision of how Mephisto fares against reality warper. Franklin Richard stomped Mephisto in hell, despite him being amped a 1000 times because of evils spread by Dire Wrath, reasonable speaking MJJ should utterly own Mephisto much like he could own most of these guys.

There are 3 heavy hitters though, and given this is their power level as they would have been in their domain, makes it very difficult for MJJ to win.

#41 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

Mad Jim Jaspers wins this. unless demons can work on his mental sanity which is their expert domain. but according to power scaling, Mad Jim Jaspers is awfully more powerful than power team combined.

#42 Posted by 7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning (3578 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

An amped up Mephisto has been humilated by Franklin Richard, 7 hell lords humiliated by Atum, most of these hell lords arent much more than fodders against MJJ, unless his specific weakness is being exploited.

Shuma Gorath is the biggest problem here, followed by Dormammu and Zom. Those are the three top canons that should turn the tide for the team.

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning: in "Silver Surfer: Judgement day" Mephisto claimed he had enough power to "shatter a galaxy" , now, he was monologuing at this point, so unless we presume Mephisto tries to make himself look weaker than he is for his subject in hell, that would imply that Mephisto has that much power or less. as in, can shatter a galaxy, than he's drained. destroy one two hundred billionth of the physical cosmos, than he's out of juice.

We have seen direct comparision of how Mephisto fares against reality warper. Franklin Richard stomped Mephisto in hell, despite him being amped a 1000 times because of evils spread by Dire Wrath, reasonable speaking MJJ should utterly own Mephisto much like he could own most of these guys.

There are 3 heavy hitters though, and given this is their power level as they would have been in their domain, makes it very difficult for MJJ to win.

No, he couldn't because MJJ has not a pure hearted soul unlike Franklin...

Franklin didn't beat Mephisto because of his powers; he beat Mephisto because of his pure hearted innocent soul.

#43 Posted by Bo88gdan (4405 posts) - - Show Bio

Demons ftw

#44 Posted by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio

@7am_Waking_Up_In_The_Morning said:

No, he couldn't because MJJ has not a pure hearted soul unlike Franklin...

Franklin didn't beat Mephisto because of his powers; he beat Mephisto because of his pure hearted innocent soul.

Thats not what happened at all, the innocence of his soul has absolutely nothing to do with him being able to blow Mephisto into itty bitty peices, in hell, despite being amped a 1000 fold.

Why spread lies?

And MJJ would stomp Mephisto, you wank Mephisto way above his station.

Here is the full fight

Fantastic Four, Volume 1, 277

Here's the proof that he was amped:

Here is the bio that substantiates it

Marvel Universe 2005 bio in regards to Franklin vs Mephisto.

Now show me were exactly has it been stated that Mephisto was blown into itty bitty peices because Franklin had pure soul?

#45 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Dormammu is regularly beaten by guys like Eternity, MJJ (presumably) killed the Eternity of Earth-238. Zom is difficult to quantify, and Shuma seems easy enough to banish that he shouldn't be that much of a problem to a higher league reality warper.

#46 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

Bump... ;)

#47 Posted by Killemall (18564 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@Killemall: Dormammu is regularly beaten by guys like Eternity, MJJ (presumably) killed the Eternity of Earth-238. Zom is difficult to quantify, and Shuma seems easy enough to banish that he shouldn't be that much of a problem to a higher league reality warper.

Its surprising i didnt get this message on my inbox at all, so apologies for delated reply.

I have only pointed out Zom and Shuma as the major powerhouse as opposed to Dormammu, and Dormammu, in his realm has never fought Eternity, outside it, he has only fought eternity once barring Defenders vol 3 where he alonside his sister were mega amped by change in cosmic axis. So Dormammu might not be easy to beat.

Shuma could be banished, as pretty much every demon can be, the problem is banishment is different from teleportation which makes it a little harder for Shuma Gorath to be banished at peak of his power, without magical means, such that he cant come back, i personally see him as a big problem.

MJJ did not kill eternity, he replace Eternity in the universe as defacto supreme being, MJJ warp essentially makes him god within his warps, but problem being Shuma and guys could likely teleport him somewhere in the void where no reality exists, that seem to be a loophole you can exploit against MJJ.

Powerless in absence of reality, and vulnerability to Fury were the only plot that we know can stop MJJ, else he was as close to god as it gets, its just that those might be a little easy to exploit.

#48 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@Killemall: Dormammu is regularly beaten by guys like Eternity, MJJ (presumably) killed the Eternity of Earth-238. Zom is difficult to quantify, and Shuma seems easy enough to banish that he shouldn't be that much of a problem to a higher league reality warper.

Its surprising i didnt get this message on my inbox at all, so apologies for delated reply.

I have only pointed out Zom and Shuma as the major powerhouse as opposed to Dormammu, and Dormammu, in his realm has never fought Eternity, outside it, he has only fought eternity once barring Defenders vol 3 where he alonside his sister were mega amped by change in cosmic axis. So Dormammu might not be easy to beat.

Shuma could be banished, as pretty much every demon can be, the problem is banishment is different from teleportation which makes it a little harder for Shuma Gorath to be banished at peak of his power, without magical means, such that he cant come back, i personally see him as a big problem.

MJJ did not kill eternity, he replace Eternity in the universe as defacto supreme being, MJJ warp essentially makes him god within his warps, but problem being Shuma and guys could likely teleport him somewhere in the void where no reality exists, that seem to be a loophole you can exploit against MJJ.

Powerless in absence of reality, and vulnerability to Fury were the only plot that we know can stop MJJ, else he was as close to god as it gets, its just that those might be a little easy to exploit.

What are some of Zom's best feats? I heard the Living Tribunal had to intervene to stop him.