One day Misaka was wandering around looking for Toma to tell him something important. That something had something to do with a recent flux that has been affecting her powers but to no avail she could not find Toma as she realized that her powers had consequences a electrical rift is created which drags Delsin along with it due to the same occurring in his world. Once Delsin is transferred into Misaka`s world and current destination the flux feels stronger in her perspective which inspires her to confront him. Delsin unaware of what`s going on and only confused asks Misaka, where am I? But Misaka only replies with are you the one who is messing with my powers? Delsin replies with, what? Don`t play dumb with me is Misaka`s final words as she sends an electrical charge of energy Delsin`s way this annoys and angers him to the point where he readies himself for a fight.
Match Rules:
Both are in-character but are fighting to the best of their ability
Delsin is composite and also at full power with all upgrades
Mikoto's power is known as the Railgun (超電磁砲 (レールガン) Chō-Denjihō (Rērugan)?, lit. "Super Electromagnetic Cannon").[15] She chose the ability name herself, naming it after her famous finishing move.[16] Her ability belongs to a type of esper powers known as Electromaster (電撃使い (エレクトロマスター) Dengeki Tsukai (Erekutoro Masutā)?, lit. "Electricity User"): those who can generate and manipulate electricity.
Mikoto is the most powerful Electromaster in Academy City. Her maximum output is known to be 1 billion volts. She has also demonstrated enough skill and battle knowledge to fight head on with powerful beings such as a Saint like Brunhild Eiktobel.
Railgun (超電磁砲 (レールガン) Chō-Denjihō (Rērugan)?, lit. "Super Electromagnetic Cannon"): Mikoto can fire metal objects at three times the speed of sound by forming parallel currents on both sides of her arm with her electricity. Her railgun has a muzzle velocity of 1030 m/s (2307.2 mph), and can be fired at a rate of 8 shots per minute.(She can shoot metal objects three times the speed of sound and even faster. She has hinted she can fire multiple coins at once creating a Rail-Shotgun, however this has never been seen. She primarily uses arcade coins as her projectiles for portability, limiting her normal range to 50 meters.
Lightning Attack Spear (雷撃の槍 Raigeki no Yari?): Mikoto has the ability to generate a "spear of lightning" originating from her forehead.
Powerful Electromagnetic Pulse: Mikoto has the ability to create magnetic pulses that target the organs
Lightning Strike: Mikoto can call down real lightning using her ability regardless of season. This attack was shown to be powerful enough to cause a city-wide blackout.
Electromagnetism: Mikoto can use electromagnetism to attract and repel metallic materials and use it to her advantage. Examples include creating a make-shift shield out of scrap metal, throwing pieces of metal, walking on walls and ceilings, as well as attracting iron particles in the ground around her.
Whip Sword (鞭のような剣 Muchi no yō na Ken?) or Iron Sand Sword (砂鉄剣 Satetsuken?): Using her magnetic powers, Mikoto can form a "whip sword" by gathering iron sand, manipulating it into a sword that she can lengthen into a whip at will. By making the sand particles of the blade vibrate, she can dramatically increase the weapon's cutting power into something resembling that of a chainsaw.(its cutting feats will be elaborated on.)
Cracking/Hacking: Using her electric powers she can hack any electronic device and bypass normal electronic security measures with ease. She can decode the electronic flow of information, like steal the information from a credit card's magnetic strip, as well as directly process a computer's information in binary. This skill also enables her to perform acts such as erasing herself from security footage in real time or taking control of Academy City's roving security robots. Furthermore, it is revealed in Volume 7 of New Testament that she could even use her power to take control of cars.
Unique Sensory Perception of Electric-type Espers: As an electromaster, Mikoto is of course able to sense electric, magnetic, and electromagnetic phenomena. She is, however, able to follow the electric and magnetic field lines using her eyes, something that normal electromasters are unable to do with their limited power.She takes this ability one step further by analyzing the reflections of the electromagnetic waves she generates, giving her no blind spots.
Flight: Using formulas similar to those she is using for her Iron Sand sword, Mikoto can fly if she is surrounded by a large amount of atomized water vapor. She manipulated the water vapor forming it into wings using the static electricity from interactions between particles. By using her electric power to induce electrolysis on a large body of water such as the ocean, she can obtain enough hydrogen and oxygen to use as fuel.
Telepathic Immunity: Mikoto has been shown to be immune to the effects of telepathic manipulation due to the electromagnetic barrier created by her AIM dispersion field.
Radar Sense: Mikoto can sense and release electromagnetic waves around her to enable her to see the image of the room three-dimensionally without the use of her sight.(i will show scans for this later.)
Control of nerves and muscles: Perhaps a reference to her powers being applied to help those with muscular dystrophy. Mikoto is shown to be able to use her powers to take control of her muscles and nerves when they have been rendered ineffective through the use of drugs. The cost of this however is that she requires to constantly use her powers on her body, making her a walking stun gun
I know this is a copout way of not making a huge post but i don't want to toss a whole crapton of feats for no reason and not have anything to show later on, so here is a video compilation of The Railgun.
Now that was still quite the opener and like always you never disappoint. However, acting as the opposite force on the chessboard, I must represent one of my favorite characters against one of the most cleverly written characters from one of my favorite anime/manga series. I`m excited to introduce Mr. Delsin Rowe into the fray now your probably thinking that her facing Delsin will be as clear-cut as when she is usually matched up or compared against close competition and that competition being Cole Mcgrath in fact it will be different, and it will turn out to be the exact opposite her opponent is far more versatile as well as creative with his abilities. When it comes to everything regarding a character`s category in which they are characterized by their advantages and disadvantages that won`t be necessary in this face-off due to both characters being fairly street-level+ characters its their power-sets that will make the difference in this match not their stats although that too will find its way into the mechanics of how we will move towards our conclusions and with all that said..... Let`s get right into it! Now whose Delsin Rowe?
Delsin Rowe is known to being by those around him and by those who do not truly know him as a active graffiti artist as well as trouble making personality although its more within the range of having fun than making trouble just for the sake of it and harming others he`s a lighthearted member of the Akomish Reservation basically which centers on the Akomish Tribe who believe in a certain philosophy. Everything seems pretty normal right, well its normal for today and then tomorrow its extraordinarily unexplained as Delsin not only lives in a world based around a specific societal and political overview of rules but he himself gets caught up in the controversy one day when he makes contact with a Conduit also labelled a Bioterrorist named Hank who was being held captive by the D.U.B (Department of United Protection) a government funded organization and movement whose top priority is to capture all Conduits (those who are different and have special abilities similar to mutants in Marvel) this operation is being led by Brooke Augustine. When Delsin makes contact with Hank he gains his ability to create and become smoke when this happens his life suddenly changes as he is now a target of the D.U.B but with his brother involved who is a cop things get more complicated once members and those important to Delsin are caught in the crossfire as Betty one of the Tribe members ends up trapped in a building in which Delsin pursues Hank in which they enter into the building and Augustine after capturing Hank questions Delsin who after being a bit hesitant gives off the vibe that he is hiding something as he later confirms he`s a Conduit but attained this ability from Hank but in anger and distrust Augustine decides to harm those Delsin cares about by embedding them with Concrete as she herself is a Conduit she then knocks Delsin out in which he remains unconscious for a duration of 2 weeks this motivates Delsin to becoming either the Hero or Monster in the Infamous Second Son storyline as he plans to take her down absorb her power and save his friends.
Now that Delsin has been explained in much detail it is time to move onto why he will win this fight. Now I know Misaka won`t allow Delsin the easy or easily definable win but I know for sure that either way he will win and he wins fair & square and here are the reasons why. First I will showcase the basics then I will get into the depth of why I believe deeply in the idea that he will win in more ways than one considering he`s the bigger weapon of the two but also because I`m motivated by a winning strategy and step-ahead argument.
Basics:
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This video pretty much visualizes everything I have been explaining so far but the important aspect is Delsin`s basic Smoke abilities. Once he gains this ability from Hank he experiences random occurrences and changes correlating back to the situation. Delsin`s smoke ability as demonstrated in this video allows him the following attributes:
Healing as noted by Delsin`s brother Reggie his body acts as a healing processor the damage inflicted is accustomed by design due to Delsin`s unique nature as an embodiment of smoke he awoke quicker and healed faster after being assaulted by Brooke`s concrete also this is during the first time in which he is understanding his new found power. Delsin is even surprised that he can sustain certain injuries that a normal human shouldn`t be able to sustain.
Delsin can phase through objects and he does so quite easily also he literally becomes a stream of smoke while in doing so as its smooth way of transitioning from place to place.
Delsin when holding a chain can utilize it as a whip and exploit it in a creative way by enhancing it with his smoke powers.
His Smoke ability also contains the element of fire.
This is just a simple rundown of his first ability the following will illustrate that further in which I will elaborate on the exploration that is emphasized when this ability meets its innate potential ability to upgrade in which the user Delsin becomes more powerful and potent.
Delsin gets shot twice and the bullets pierce him but due to his fast-healing as he himself understands is he able to get back up like nothing happened. Delsin throughout the game due to this healing ability can absorb astonishing amounts of damage relating to heavy assault fire from multiple high-powered firearms, elemental powers, lava, ridiculous descents from high places and etc.
Delsin utilizes Smoke Shot in which he can fire multiple blasts at a fast rate and it offers great range as well.
With Sulfur Bombs Delsin can cover his enemies in smoke and cause a lot of damage with further upgrades also he can choke enemies with surrounding smoke as well with the right exploitation of this ability and it has great radius.
Delsin can subdue enemies or execute them this is the Smoke variation of the tactic.
With Cinder Blast Delsin has access to more great range he can blow up vehicles and etc.
This is a key ability and its very known. Its called Orbital Drop basically Delsin flies into the air and then comes back down with immense impact this caused the Space Needle to be destroyed to a degree on top level.
This is a Evil Karma variation of the Orbital Drop its called the Karma Bomb and it packs more heat than the Orbital Drop as Delsin gives it his all instead of casually being cautious of the destruction that he is responsible for causing around him.
Defeater Delsin will win:
The following will demonstrate ways in which Delsin will be the defeater and leave Misaka as the defeated his versatility is immense. While Misaka`s abilities are solely associated with electricity Delsin`s range from video, concrete, neon and etc. Delsin as the arsenal he is has an assortment of abilities that will prove to be astronomically advantageous and in my assessment this holds true.
Light Speed allows Delsin the ability to travel at great speeds taking the form of Neon light and with Endless Speed he can keep in this form for how long he wants and he can travel aerially without issue. This will allow him to dodge and avoid all of Misaka`s attacks he`s invulnerable while in this state this will act as a contributor to him winning.
Delsin can create a Neon weapon and can fight at close range with great efficiency while Misaka is more of a range combatant if she decides to engage up close all Delsin needs to do is summon the Neon chain this saber type weapon made out of Neon will be effective.
This goes back to Delsin`s speed as you can see avoids an explosion in quick fashion and with this top-level speed he will be avoiding Misaka`s attacks and will exhaust her personal ability to keep her composure together.
Delsin can fire Neon Beams from a far away range and also subdue Misaka from a considerable distance away.
With Radiant Sweep Delsin can produce a encompassing AoE attacks that causes a lot of damage and surrounds the entire area in Neon energy with this I don`t see how Misaka will be able to endure through it or avoid it since once Delsin initiates the attack all enemies are frozen and held in place by a stasis bubble speaking of stasis bubbles.
Delsin can utilize a Stasis Bubble to entrap Misaka and then he can continuously bring forth the hailstorm of Phosphor Beams which can destroy vehicles as well as large constructs also they are more developed than typical Neon Beams.
Thanks to Laser Focus Delsin will be able to slow down time and discover Misaka`s weak spots this is effective close range and even when in distance so Misaka will not be able to evade or understand what`s going on especially when being slowed-down.
Shroud of Invisibility makes Delsin undetectable and as shown he can also like all his other powers can subdue his enemies he will subdue Misaka with video blades and she won`t be able to notice him due to his invisibility.
Delsin can summon video demons while going invisible and three is the max in which he can summon so Misaka will be occupied with aerial combatants who are proficient in engaging in full-frontal combat as much as keeping their distance and firing off long-reaching projectiles but she will have to deal with an invisible Delsin.
Delsin with Hellfire Swarm can summon or bring forth multiple video demons and command them alongside conjured streams of concentrated video energy to hit as well as impact the intended target with deadly results. Misaka would sustain more than just lethal and severe injuries from this attack and it will be hard for her to avoid as well if she`s not 100% focused.
Delsin can go from Bloodthirsty Blades in which he can direct many video blades to Video Torrent in which he can direct multiple video blades in the form of a large torrent at enemies this can prove to be lethal to Misaka since Delsin can create distance and direct the blades in any path that he chooses.
With Boulder Dash Delsin can encase himself in concrete armor and bull-rush his enemies essentially also he`s strong enough to knock around vehicles and heavily armed enemies this will definitely cause problems for Misaka.
Ground Smash allows Delsin to create distance with enemies but he can also cause destruction to cars and even heavily armored vehicles as well as foes.
Delsin can fire off concrete shrapnel which utilizes concrete projectiles and Concrete Barrage that firs five disk concrete projectiles this can hinder Misaka`s game.
Message to Misaka:
Delsin himself has a message for Misaka that he would like to share and it really sheds a lot of light on what is going on and what`s going to happen. Delsin`s confidence is my confidence and with that said we already know who the winner already is.
And he`s right considering Misaka in no way can argue against his art skills.
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In Conclusion:
To sum it all up and put the perspective back into perspective I shall emphasize key points:
Delsin without a shadow of a doubt is WAY more versatile when it comes to overall ability while Misaka is just more unique and specific with her electromagnetic correlating cast of abilities just like most A Certain Magical Index characters she too is very unique.
While Misaka may be more serious and focused as well as aggressive in battle that could easily be outmatched by a Evil Karma Delsin`s ruthlessness which I go into detail in my next response.
Most of Misaka`s efforts will be meaningless when up against someone who can become intangible and phase through enemy fire as well as solid objects.
Delsin has a super-healing factor or more so I would like to say super-healing processor which allows him to survive heavy gunfire from multiple enemies at once, elemental assault, intense heat and etc.
Delsin may not be necessarily as skilled or technique heavy as Misaka but he rivals those qualities with his ability to learn, adapt and be a quick thinker when in dire situations.
Delsin not being a manipulator of electricity or lightning can capitalize on the fact that his opponent Misaka`s main power consists of those core elements and mechanics.
Misaka is the smarter and more gifted character but Delsin`s wits isn`t to be underestimated.
Delsin will be the one to inflict more damage considering most of his abilities allow him in many and I mean many ways in which he could either avoid, evade or tank enemy attack also Delsin can fly or choose to become a channel for the environment that is around him so he will be more unpredictable than Misaka will ever be especially when in combat.
I haven`t even gotten into the rest of Delsin`s abilities and in my next response expect to see characters who are more powerful than Misaka but that didn`t stop Delsin from taking them down as my next response will also center around Delsin`s accomplishments against certain level enemies.
Based on these reasons I`m confident that the Conduit will beat the Esper.
You made a great opener and I`m looking forward to your counter :)
@neongamewave: This is going to be tough because this is the only infamous game i haven't played so i cannot immediately correct you on things. But i'll try nonetheless.
The only ability that is a threat to someone of misaka's skill and precision is neon honestly. And that can be countered to a small extent which i will get to.
This video pretty much visualizes everything I have been explaining so far but the important aspect is Delsin`s basic Smoke abilities. Once he gains this ability from Hank he experiences random occurrences and changes correlating back to the situation. Delsin`s smoke ability as demonstrated in this video allows him the following attributes:
Healing as noted by Delsin`s brother Reggie his body acts as a healing processor the damage inflicted is accustomed by design due to Delsin`s unique nature as an embodiment of smoke he awoke quicker and healed faster after being assaulted by Brooke`s concrete also this is during the first time in which he is understanding his new found power. Delsin is even surprised that he can sustain certain injuries that a normal human shouldn`t be able to sustain.
Delsin can phase through objects and he does so quite easily also he literally becomes a stream of smoke while in doing so as its smooth way of transitioning from place to place.
Delsin when holding a chain can utilize it as a whip and exploit it in a creative way by enhancing it with his smoke powers.
His Smoke ability also contains the element of fire.
Hmmm
1. The fast healing is basically useless, it simply shows how easy it is to take him down. His fast healing will fall apart as shown within gameplay and what not if he takes too much damage at once. Each blast from misaka even a casual one will be fatal.
2. This clearly has limits seeing as in the video you showed, delsin tries to go through flaming debris only to stop himself due to the heat, if that's the case, then he can only phase through physical attacks like maybe a punch or maybe if someone throws a rock at him or something, its more useful for transportation and agility if anything.
3. This will backfire so quickly against him its not even funny. Close combat, especially against misaka with metal objects isn't smart at all.
4. Arguable.
Delsin gets shot twice and the bullets pierce him but due to his fast-healing as he himself understands is he able to get back up like nothing happened. Delsin throughout the game due to this healing ability can absorb astonishing amounts of damage relating to heavy assault fire from multiple high-powered firearms, elemental powers, lava, ridiculous descents from high places and etc.
Its clear that those bullets did lots of damage to him, its not like he became super durable and took those bullets like they are nothing as if he is superman. Those bullets were actually a threat to him. Heavy is subjective here. Because from what i saw in the clips it seems a small clip of assault fire would be enough to kill him. More than it would to kill a human sure but still. And if bullets can threaten him, misaka can do the same easily. Lava? Lets see this. "ridiculous descents from high places" This is great and all but i need a cutscene for this one. Cole is one thing because we see cutscenes of him jumping off buildings, but can i get a cutscene of Delsin doing this? Because surviving falls from ridiculous heights has been a mechanic since the first game. Cole during gameplay can essentially take himself into space(i am exaggerating obviously) and fall down and be perfectly fine.
This goes back to Delsin`s speed as you can see avoids an explosion in quick fashion and with this top-level speed he will be avoiding Misaka`s attacks and will exhaust her personal ability to keep her composure together.
Ummm yeah at the same exact speed(i shit you not NGW the same exact speed) that smoke delsin performs this.........so what? Smoke is now as fast as neon? Oh wait, thats a re-used animation that's used for smoke and video...... so this particular gif isn't impressive.
Delsin can create a Neon weapon and can fight at close range with great efficiency while Misaka is more of a range combatant if she decides to engage up close all Delsin needs to do is summon the Neon chain this saber type weapon made out of Neon will be effective.
Awwww that's cute.
Iron Sand
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As you can see misaka can create iron sand and use it like a weapon.
She can control this far more flexibly.
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This is essentially like a chain saw but far better.
And she can bring this out and move it at incredible speeds...... So while delsin is busy trying to form a neon blade in close quarters, misaka will already have iron sand ready to cut him in half........
Delsin can fire Neon Beams from a far away range and also subdue Misaka from a considerable distance away.
Sorry but nope.
This is Meltdowner.
With the woman known as Mugino Shizuri at the center, lines of bright, unhealthy-looking light shot out in all directions. They weren’t special electron beams shot out with the force of a lightning strike. Just like light, electrons have the properties of both particles and waves, but Mugino had the power to forcibly control electrons that remained in that “ambiguous” state.
When electrons that were fixed in that ambiguous state struck an object, they couldn’t decide whether to react as a particle or as a wave, so they would “stop” there. Normally, electrons had a mass that was incredibly close to zero, but that “stopping” created a false wall that caused a dreadful amount of destructive force to be strike the target at the speed with which it hit that wall.
That was Meltdowner.
The technical classification was Particle Waveform High-Speed Cannon.
Unlike the #3 Railgun, she was a Level 5 who manipulated electrons without using waves or particles.
Which is LS based on the description, though this reaction speed only applies to attacks similar to Mikoto's own ability. Anything that uses electrons basically.
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Considering the nature of Delsin's neon abilities the same thing could happen if he shoots these blasts at her.
Delsin can utilize a Stasis Bubble to entrap Misaka and then he can continuously bring forth the hailstorm of Phosphor Beams which can destroy vehicles as well as large constructs also they are more developed than typical Neon Beams.
It would have to hit her first. Sorry about that. And with her level of agility and speed, she isn't getting tagged. Plus even if she is put in a stasis bubble this doesn't stop her from countering or attacking delsin.
Thanks to Laser Focus Delsin will be able to slow down time and discover Misaka`s weak spots this is effective close range and even when in distance so Misaka will not be able to evade or understand what`s going on especially when being slowed-down.
I would like more context on this ability, maybe in cutscene if possible or in a fight scene.
Shroud of Invisibility makes Delsin undetectable and as shown he can also like all his other powers can subdue his enemies he will subdue Misaka with video blades and she won`t be able to notice him due to his invisibility.
Nope.
Delsin with Hellfire Swarm can summon or bring forth multiple video demons and command them alongside conjured streams of concentrated video energy to hit as well as impact the intended target with deadly results. Misaka would sustain more than just lethal and severe injuries from this attack and it will be hard for her to avoid as well if she`s not 100% focused.
They don't seem that fast in the first place, and it seems you are seriously underestimating her reaction time.
One of her clones(these clones are extremely inferior) literally blocked a bullet redirected at her at point blank range.
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Misaka herself has performed even greater feats.
She has an abnormal level of reaction time and possibly movement speed. In the hypersonic range.
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She reacted to not only the guided missiles, but also the explosion and avoided it.
Most of Misaka`s efforts will be meaningless when up against someone who can become intangible and phase through enemy fire as well as solid objects.
Phasing through solid objects? Thats kind of incorrect. In the first showcase of his phase ability we see him phase around the car, not through it. Plus he cannot phase through a lightning blast from misaka it seems and i highly doubt he is phasing through iron sand.
Delsin has a super-healing factor or more so I would like to say super-healing processor which allows him to survive heavy gunfire from multiple enemies at once, elemental assault, intense heat and etc.
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In the very video you yourself showed me, Delsin was seen nearly dieing from taking gunfire. But yet you constantly say in your post that he can "take it like nothing happened" when that is clearly not the case, in the gameplay we see delsin retreat from gunfire multiple times due to taking too many bullets. And we even seen him die once in that same video due to heavy gunfire. What do you have to say to that NGW?
Delsin not being a manipulator of electricity or lightning can capitalize on the fact that his opponent Misaka`s main power consists of those core elements and mechanics.
Misaka has fought extremely powerful superhumans and other espers with powers different from hers, she has fought robot armies and has take down beings such as the AIM burst. I highly doubt someone who has to drain a certain source of energy in order to change powers which isn't practical in battle, especially against someone who would be applying pressure against you most of the time, is much of a issue.
Misaka is the smarter and more gifted character but Delsin`s wits isn`t to be underestimated.
Oh please, go on.
Delsin will be the one to inflict more damage considering most of his abilities allow him in many and I mean many ways in which he could either avoid, evade or tank enemy attack also Delsin can fly or choose to become a channel for the environment that is around him so he will be more unpredictable than Misaka will ever be especially when in combat.
This is arguable since Misaka could easily one shot delsin with a single blast and he wouldn't be able to do nothing but dodge. Since i don't recall him shooting down electric blasts with smoke blasts of all things and i definitely don't recall him reacting to lightning anyway. And she could easily raise iron sand from the ground and it would be too fast for delsin to counter by the time he realizes its coming at him.
I haven`t even gotten into the rest of Delsin`s abilities and in my next response expect to see characters who are more powerful than Misaka but that didn`t stop Delsin from taking them down as my next response will also center around Delsin`s accomplishments against certain level enemies.
Wanna know what's funny? Delsin has to absorb a source in order to switch abilities, he is not capable of using them all at the same time. And so far the only one that is a real and i mean real danger is video which i still would like some more context on how his powers with video works.
By the way i am sure delsin would have so much fun tanking this of all things. The railgun.
And her signature move, the railgun.
Like i said before she basically launches metal objects at three times the speed of sound or more. She can do this with objects the size of a truck.(although it requires more energy) In the light novel her railgun at probably full power slammed through 20 steel pillars, and managed to smash through a wall right after.(I will quote this if needed.) In order to satisfy you, i will show you a similar feat from the manga
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The railgun slams through 3 steel train tracks.
To sum up:
Misaka is far more tactical, far faster, and more skilled than delsin is, she has more experience. No. Better experience than Delsin ever had in his entire life with his powers.
The railgun is way and i mean way to fast for delsin to dodge and its a guaranteed one shot on delsin since i am still not convinced that delsin is tanking this let alone a simple blast from misaka.
Her agility, reaction speed, and her pure reflexes in general make it easy for her to avoid attacks, especially considering she can cling onto walls via static electricity, therefore boosting her mobility.
Each of Delsin's abilty sets can be countered in some way. The only ones being a threat is video and potentially neon.
Invisibility and sneak attacks are meaningless to misaka.
The only ability that is a threat to someone of misaka's skill and precision is neon honestly. And that can be countered to a small extent which i will get to.
I disagree. Concrete will be tricky as well due to the nature in which it works it focuses on builds and environmental elements even with her skill and admirable accuracy she can`t get passed through something she won`t be expecting especially with Delsin`s unpredictability and slyly strange fighting patterns. While you may argue that Misaka has fought someone similar it doesn`t mean she has fought someone who fits the who, what, when, where, who, why and how that is the same as Delsin Rowe and he channels his powers much differently, and thinks on his feet much more clearly in a creative way. The video power is extremely unique I don`t see Misaka having any kind of specific counter for it either due to the functionality of it and how it works. Also she won`t be able to understand it as she could suspect Delsin to being a Esper and formulate her form of thinking based on that assumption that her powers will be able to counter perfectly as it might of have to a degree in the past against all the Espers she has ever encountered. Skill and precision does not equal a winning strategy those two qualities are still held up by Misaka`s form if she loses her temper, focus and decides to underestimate Delsin (which I could see her doing) then her skill as well as precision will have to be thrown out the window considering like many other strategists she must remain calm in order to being able to process her thoughts.
Hmmm
1. The fast healing is basically useless, it simply shows how easy it is to take him down. His fast healing will fall apart as shown within gameplay and what not if he takes too much damage at once. Each blast from misaka even a casual one will be fatal.
2. This clearly has limits seeing as in the video you showed, delsin tries to go through flaming debris only to stop himself due to the heat, if that's the case, then he can only phase through physical attacks like maybe a punch or maybe if someone throws a rock at him or something, its more useful for transportation and agility if anything.
3. This will backfire so quickly against him its not even funny. Close combat, especially against misaka with metal objects isn't smart at all.
4. Arguable.
1. Not true. Delsin has more feats that relate to healing and tanking he went through a vent in which he came through a roof during when he was launched into the air at a great height and came right back down to ground level but did not feel a thing this also supports the fact that Delsin can and does survive impacts that deal with crazy heights as well as altitudes (Delsin makes a comment about what he did, not being right as a normal human wouldn`t survive the same impact during the scene in which he goes straight through the vent) also that instance in regards to dealing with the bullets was during the time he was still discovering and unlocking the truth behind what he can do just like with many superhero-stringed and plot-lined characters. Also in terms of gameplay your missing key components to understanding how Delsin`s encounters are characterized when going up against other Conduits or DUP soldier units is that multiple attacks are being made against him at once and eventually his vitals begin to drop or seem that way due to being under heavy fire but its not immediately that this happens it takes time also Misaka`s attack can be avoided and Delsin could always restore his health as well. If Misaka got shot in the head or chest she would die on the spot from a bullet so your point about Delsin having a healing factor as a detractor is void considering he can rebound from lethal attacks faster and more frequently than Misaka can (who rather avoids attacks or defends against them) and he tanks more on a daily basis.
2. Incorrect. That was at an early stage in which he was learning to understand his abilities later throughout his journey after accumulating new abilities it is shown that he can phase through elemental attacks, gunfire and certain objects also that was more with the ability of Smoke if I`m not mistaken. And even if you were to be correct it still proves my point about Delsin`s adept mobility he can maneuver around Misaka especially since he has a great deal of experience when it comes to facing enemies who are much faster or just more aware than he is but that didn`t stop him from using his survival instincts.
3. That`s what you think as I have to disagree. While Misaka has crazy backup in brutal measure Delsin would have more of the backup plan also he doesn`t have to engage in direct combat he could use it as a distraction and temporary plan until he unleashes one of his key attack power associated abilities revolving around Orbital Drop and Shoulder Dash.
4. We`ll see.
Its clear that those bullets did lots of damage to him, its not like he became super durable and took those bullets like they are nothing as if he is superman. Those bullets were actually a threat to him. Heavy is subjective here. Because from what i saw in the clips it seems a small clip of assault fire would be enough to kill him. More than it would to kill a human sure but still. And if bullets can threaten him, misaka can do the same easily. Lava? Lets see this. "ridiculous descents from high places" This is great and all but i need a cutscene for this one. Cole is one thing because we see cutscenes of him jumping off buildings, but can i get a cutscene of Delsin doing this? Because surviving falls from ridiculous heights has been a mechanic since the first game. Cole during gameplay can essentially take himself into space(i am exaggerating obviously) and fall down and be perfectly fine.
If you look at the scene again all the bullets manage to do was slightly bother himmomentarily. That was at the beginning of the game where he was still learning to adapt to his current state while also finding a way to encode within the right discipline in maintaining that state when in the use of controlling his powers it wasn't him at his peak which makes a difference and it doesn`t change the fact that he managed to heal from them also he laughed off the shooters attempts as he got right back up seconds after quite literally. I know he`s no Clark Kent but he doesn`t have to be ( funny thing is that Delsin likens himself to Superman as he mentions Superman within the beginning of the game when conversing with his brother). I understand where you are coming from but your failing to understand the unpredictability of Delsin`s character while that is true for Cole it doesn`t mean Delsin is slouching behind and I wouldn`t outright discredit a game-mechanic that has been applied to cutscene appropriations in which as shown in-game it is further given name in a cutscene and if you don`t believe me you should go back and look at the Orbital Drop (there are two cutscene/story related instances) feats I have been showcasing but to revitalize and reiterate my reasoning I will provide a demonstration and this furthers the fact of what I mean.
https://youtu.be/Q5Su-qy0vEg
Ummm yeah at the same exact speed(i shit you not NGW the same exact speed) that smoke delsin performs this.........so what? Smoke is now as fast as neon? Oh wait, thats a re-used animation that's used for smoke and video...... so this particular gif isn't impressive.
Why not? The point I was trying to make was that Delsin is fully capable of operating and functioning at those speeds the comparison between distinct abilities is irrelevant since they all end up supporting the same idea and Delsin has superior cutscene feats another important thing to note is that its a cinematic. Also the fact that you yourself acknowledge the actualization of what happened in the scene says alot considering its a repeated cinematic that stays true and consistent to the cutscenes in the game even if you were right would you say that Delsin isn`t atleast indeed fast or that the developers weren`t trying to convey something about the character on-screen rather than off-screen?
Awwww that's cute.
What Misaka did is cool but still Level one in Second Son.
I was only trying to convey a basic possibility of a strategy now with it fully formed into the fist of our fire to debate by both of us I can truly get into the substance of what I am trying to substantiate. Delsin fighting Brooke is more impressive than Misaka having a mission statement that says she wants to manipulate magnetism and iron against a big target in a desert area.
https://youtu.be/gIlAN3hj8dY
Brooke was years ahead of Delsin when it came to controlling concrete and she was more prepared when up against Delsin as she had more than a fair amount of info in regards to his powers she knew what abilities he had mastered and maintained throughout his journey yet Delsin is able to use her own ability against her and defeat her soundly. His Concrete Armor is able to tank her attacks while she in a newly advanced state and Misaka`s whip won`t do a thing against Delsin`s concrete armor which shields him from explosions, heavy artillery fire, elemental attacks and it cuts down damage that is dealt to him as well so Delsin can afford to dash into Misaka`s first person view and knock her down with a Shoulder Dash. Also if you were to compare opponents what Misaka fought wasn`t nearly as durable, resilient and heavily built as Brooke in her new spider-like form as Misaka in that fight was able to carve it up easily and reduce it to nothing before it could even react and I don`t see how Delsin wouldn`t be able to replicate that he would probably do even better and in the process humble Misaka.
As you can see misaka can create iron sand and use it like a weapon.
She can control this far more flexibly.
That`s cool and all but its nothing Delsin can`t replicate in regards to being slick, in control and efficient. Delsin is still more versatile and in-tuned with his abilities in regards to having the open mind in an open-field he could create a Smoke, Video, Concrete AND Neon whip on the fly with all upgrades also he could switch it up with his aerial mobility abilities as well while toss in a few explosions for more than just the sake of being interested in seeing shiny bright light in the sky or fireworks he could literally disintegrate Misaka as he has done against armored foes within the Infamous Second Son experience.
https://youtu.be/fiIsODLbhVs
This is essentially like a chain saw but far better.
And she can bring this out and move it at incredible speeds...... So while delsin is busy trying to form a neon blade in close quarters, misaka will already have iron sand ready to cut him in half........
Not impressive... Delsin could easily counter with his Dash abilities he`s already been able to slip in and out of tight spots relating back to bladed weaponry and also Delsin has shown that he can switch in and out of his abilities the variety being Neon in this case.
Which is LS based on the description, though this reaction speed only applies to attacks similar to Mikoto's own ability. Anything that uses electrons basically.
That doesn`t necessarily make Misaka Light-Speed. Delsin has a similar case dealing with him as well and it would put them on even terms if we are to think the same way.
https://youtu.be/cuB9i1TwqxY
Delsin as instituted by the developers utilizes a move literally called Light-Speed and nothing else. Just like a Logia in OP he becomes the embodied representation of an element in this case being light or more suited for his case Neon light and he can endlessly travel in this streamline as well. Abigail Walker the originator of the Neon ability was moving at ridiculous speeds even Delsin couldn`t catch up with her initially he had to absorb her ability then he was able to keep up to pace and she was able to manipulate the Neon energies as well as lights that were around her in coherence to her ability.
Considering the nature of Delsin's neon abilities the same thing could happen if he shoots these blasts at her.
This is an assumption but I see the reasoning behind it. However, electrons are a specific attribute that is needed and the way that Conduits utilize their abilities in advance to their attributes is a bit different also it would be more so the type of attack rather than the method so there`s no guarantee that it would work only wishful thinking.
It would have to hit her first. Sorry about that. And with her level of agility and speed, she isn't getting tagged. Plus even if she is put in a stasis bubble this doesn't stop her from countering or attacking delsin.
And it will. Misaka is fast, agile and has her head in the game but she can be overcome in the right circumstance when she`s angry she loses focus which is one of her personality traits and she doesn`t always operate at peak speeds she has to create distance and then focus her movements as shown with most of her strategies against threats she simply cannot defeat with sheer dependence on her abilities and the stasis bubble acts on a AoE type effect especially when unleashed to its maximum most of the area is engulfed and it affects gravity so she will be caught eventually also do you have proof for why she would be able to defend herself especially when enemies trapped in the stasis bubble can`t do a thing? Also with Evil Karma Delsin instantly incinerates his enemies which goes back to the Stasis Bubble.
I would like more context on this ability, maybe in cutscene if possible or in a fight scene.
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While Misaka as I stated earlier is gifted and has amazing sensory abilities these instances only illustrate the fact that this ideal identified trait is more so grounded when Misaka is aware and can atmospherically sense everything that is around her against visible opponents while it would prove useful it doesn`t chance the stance of my point which still stands. Misaka hasn`t used this strategy and attributive advantage against invisible opponents if I`m not mistaken and how does that prevent or stop Delsin from attacking her or utilizing a method that she can`t avoid or move out of the way from such as subdue or a stasis bubble? Also Misaka has been tagged before and kept off balance so I don`t see why Delsin isn`t fully capable here especially with all his bags of tricks that Misaka has no knowledge of in many of her encounters she had a degree of knowledge or understanding of what she was up against which is why she is such a resourceful and intellectually independent character. Another important thing to note is that Video is literal visualization and its like a dimensional fabric in the form of digitization its not something completely conventional by any means and your forgetting about the fact that his three demons or angels are instantly summoned by his command also their aerial combatants and are experts in both range as well as direct combat so there`s that as well. Misaka has never been in a situation like that before so despite her special abilities she can`t appropriate them to every situation favorably as results vary.
They don't seem that fast in the first place, and it seems you are seriously underestimating her reaction time.
One of her clones(these clones are extremely inferior) literally blocked a bullet redirected at her at point blank range.
I remember this scene. I watched and analyzed the video several times and I didn`t see anything special. Accelerator impressed me the most in that scene (arguably my favorite character) and that clone didn`t react to the first bullets fired off from Accelerator also this is no big deal since Delsin can block bullets as well and phase away or through them with his Dash abilities.
Avoiding missiles is awesome and avoiding an explosion is awesome as well but that doesn`t necessarily make a character hypersonic considering Misaka possesses a distinguished ability of being able to sense electromagnetic waves just like how Star Wars characters have precognition which allows them to react to things they couldn`t normally react to as they themselves don`t exceed or don`t always exceed hypersonic+ range in speed also later on in the fight Misaka loses her composure and doesn`t stay consistent with her level of movement and she got outsmarted later on in the fight by Frenda another important thing to note is that she knew when the missiles were going to hit. It wasn`t out of nowhere Frenda was giving her the idea that she was about to send something her away although I will say that Misaka is maybe capable of reaching those speeds with her unique characteristics rather than innately instructed personal abilities basically her stats its also important to understand that she`s not always functioning at that level and she still has her limits when she takes damage she will slow down like any normal human pretty much but since you mentioned speed, you want speed? Well, I`ll give you speed and more!
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Delsin with his Hellfire Swarm ability brings down the Concrete Tower as Augustine had the home field advantage this occurs in their first fight. In that instant Brooke make it out due to her concrete ability and her knowing her away around the Tower everyone assumes that Delsin is dead but he makes it out of water and is fine despite that level of destruction that happened also I`m not referring to speed as in the typical sense. What I mean is what goes back earlier to the beginning of this debate, Delsin`s instincts! He can make it out tight spots and survive even when the stakes are raised also Misaka`s ability reminds me of Neji`s ability with the Byakugan it just allows for the user to understand where the attack is coming from and with right timing they could avoid the attack as their senses tell them where the attack is going to hit but this ability doesn`t always work. Spontaneous and unpredictable maneuvers can get the better of these abilities if done right and Delsin being the unreadable and undefinable fighter that he is just like how Toma is as well although Toma is plot-powered to a degree even he can get the better of Misaka when the time calls for it. Misaka won`t be able to understand Delsin`s weird fighting patterns and creative interchanging in relation to his very versatile and diverse powerset also I don`t recall Misaka fighting someone as versatile and inventively indescribable as Delsin also whose not to say that Delsin won`t realize Misaka`s level headed attitude and take action in having her unknowingly distracted? Also he too can create smoke due to his Smoke ability he can manipulate fire and embers I wouldn`t be surprised if he manged to do this against Misaka randomly (as it ends up working) rather than strategically considering Delsin learns along the way and is originally unorthodox in the way that he adapts.
Phasing through solid objects? Thats kind of incorrect. In the first showcase of his phase ability we see him phase around the car, not through it. Plus he cannot phase through a lightning blast from misaka it seems and i highly doubt he is phasing through iron sand.
As evidenced in my statements, I was more so referring to Delsin`s Smoke ability and he has shown that he can phase through bullets, enemies, he takes an almost incorporeal form when in doing this your thinking more of his Dash abilities as he progresses through the plot he demonstrates new traits in regards to what he can do and he can pass through vents. Why can`t he? He`s phased through elemental attacks before and even if he couldn`t he can still take cover through a vent which shouldn`t be hard to notice also he wouldn`t need to phase through it and the game consistently gets the point across in regards to Delsin`s ability to phase as well as remain untouchable.
Lol Phoenix Wright you have no right in claiming objection sit down the court is still in session.
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In the very video you yourself showed me, Delsin was seen nearly dieing from taking gunfire. But yet you constantly say in your post that he can "take it like nothing happened" when that is clearly not the case, in the gameplay we see delsin retreat from gunfire multiple times due to taking too many bullets. And we even seen him die once in that same video due to heavy gunfire. What do you have to say to that NGW?
Your misconstruing what I`m communicating. My point was centered around the fact that he has a healing ability and there was a respective as well as very specific scene in which he rebounded from being shot the reason why gameplay (which in this case is apples and apples) is a factor is because with his healing ability he can at one given time take multiple forms of damage which includes heavy fire from a variety of enemies and the reason why the gameplay may imply that is because of the situation he is in he doesn`t like to unnecessarily engage in violence or take risks all the time also how does this help support your case for Misaka who would die from a bullet instantly rather than heal from it like Delsin does casually? Easy. Why do many video game characters survive from gunfire in cutscenes but die from it when in gameplay? Its because of game mechanics Delsin is not an anime, comic, novel, and etc. character being a video game character comes with a certain understanding that is determined by the level of balance.
Misaka has fought extremely powerful superhumans and other espers with powers different from hers, she has fought robot armies and has take down beings such as the AIM burst. I highly doubt someone who has to drain a certain source of energy in order to change powers which isn't practical in battle, especially against someone who would be applying pressure against you most of the time, is much of a issue.
With certain circumstances thrown into the mix yes this is true but what does that all mean to a character like Delsin in a central conditional fight as this one? Delsin has taken on amazingly powerful and distinct Conduits who were much more different than he was and were much more experienced for their time such as demons, angels, a government trained army of soldiers motivated for the purpose of either capturing or killing Conduits not to mention that Delsin also uses many of their powers against them. I can say that I highly doubt someone as prideful and forward as Misaka who got the tables turned on her by someone like Frenda is going to take down a guy who is as versatile as Delsin who can multitask and not stress out in the middle of a situation despite having all the odds against him and depending on a electromagnetic ability isn`t wise considering it only works to a certain condition or standard Misaka has to be focused and in full attendance also considering how she can crack pretty fast and act out in rage says that the guy who isn`t practical or drains energy from different mediums is atleast smart enough to exploit that disadvantage considering he`s done so before against many enemies.
Oh please, go on.
As I will.
This is arguable since Misaka could easily one shot delsin with a single blast and he wouldn't be able to do nothing but dodge. Since i don't recall him shooting down electric blasts with smoke blasts of all things and i definitely don't recall him reacting to lightning anyway. And she could easily raise iron sand from the ground and it would be too fast for delsin to counter by the time he realizes its coming at him.
This is again assumption. Delsin is going to be the one to one-shot Misaka considering her durability is not up to par and she doesn`t really possess a healing factor like Delsin does also how is it possible when Delsin tanks explosions, bullets, energy beams, lava and etc? And he has to directly counter by shooting at the lightning cause why? Can`t he just phase through it or use Laser Focus to slow down time and find a weak spot despite Misaka`s ability to disable blindspots? And what will that do if dangerously focused concrete can`t take down Delsin how will iron sand will lol. Delsin could easily counter with his concrete armor which activates on instant instinct and it nullifies a lot of damage that is dealt since Delsin is at full power it will nullify more than 30% so it wouldn`t matter if Misaka managed to tag him with lightning or iron sand considering he is equipped as he is also prepared and this could leave her open for a Stasis Bubble.
Wanna know what's funny? Delsin has to absorb a source in order to switch abilities, he is not capable of using them all at the same time. And so far the only one that is a real and i mean real danger is video which i still would like some more context on how his powers with video works.
By the way i am sure delsin would have so much fun tanking this of all things. The railgun.
And her signature move, the railgun.
As I am aware but the reason why its nothing really and its certainly not a big deal is because switching between abilities on the fly is more than possible with him fully upgraded by the end of the game which is different and since you haven`t played the game that would be hard to understand. Video, Concrete and Neon are threats it would make more sense if you considered Smoke to not being a threat although Delsin could render Misaka`s abilities useless under the right conditions with Concrete Delsin has great defense as he negates damage and he can go on the offense. With Neon he could outspeed or outmaneuver Misaka aerially and since Delsin isn`t a Esper along with the fact that she has no knowledge of him she wouldn`t exactly know what to do especially since he can switch between powers with Video you are correct that it is dangerous for Misaka considering he can summon angels and demons while remain under the effects of his invisibility also it will be hard for her to sense him considering the differentiation that is a result of the different dividing factors that the ability encases and encompasses in with regards to full effect against the idea of it being a standard and conventional ability. Its not just some energy its actual digital and visual pixels in every sense of the word its a very special ability and it will catch Misaka off-guard even if Delsin were to be an Esper.
I`m pretty aware of the Railgun and I know it won`t be the biggest issue also for more context on the ability Video. The showcase here provides his battle with Eugene this is where he tanks lava (Delsin even makes a comment about it during the fight) and a highlight video detailing the mechanics of the ability.
https://youtu.be/SPc3wjUo6f8
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Like i said before she basically launches metal objects at three times the speed of sound or more. She can do this with objects the size of a truck.(although it requires more energy) In the light novel her railgun at probably full power slammed through 20 steel pillars, and managed to smash through a wall right after.(I will quote this if needed.) In order to satisfy you, i will show you a similar feat from the manga
The railgun slams through 3 steel train tracks.
Amazing feats but I`m still not convinced that they will be the deciding factor of this battle considering Delsin has THREE TRUMP CARDS.
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Orbital Drop:
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Hellfire Swarm:
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Radiant Sweep:
Also do you think Delsin is going to be standing around or waiting in one direction like a target that is defined by a straight path? He`s going to be constantly moving, firing energy blasts, bringing forth to the forefront explosions and he`s going to moving around vehicles Misaka will have to be lucky in order to hit him especially since Delsin can fly anytime he wants and during the time she decides to use her Railgun ability Delsin may already be in the air. Also Delsin can counter back with his Laser Focus ability he can manipulate time relative to his perception and expose an even more easily traceable weak point since Misaka will be in a focused position attempting to keep Delsin in her aim of focus and he could fire off Cinder Blasts, subdue, Bloodthirsty Blades, and more.... So while Misaka will probably be out of options as she succumbs to the pressure or her temper, Delsin will remain confidently cool but then there`s also Evil Delsin, and unfortunately I think this will end up happening to Misaka.
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In Conclusion:
While Misaka may be more tactical and smarter than Delsin she herself proved that those advantages can be overcome with the right timed dynamic and she`s not far faster I haven`t even seen a single feat from you that showcases her as being as agile, maneuverable and mobile as Delsin. Delsin has fought intelligent and experienced opponents also Misaka`s anger could cloud her judgement (she`s far from being perfect and she can be a prideful character at times) also sometimes she tends to underestimate her opponents while Delsin is more so on the playful and clever side of things he could use that to his advantage he has before to some extent.
The problem with the Railgun is that it isn`t some instantaneous energy attack or homing attack its not like a IT Kamehameha due to the fact that Misaka flips a coin being a metal object into the air and then that object accumulates that amount of speed due to friction and in that time Delsin could be moving around constantly in the air or on ground level or he could just be in a vent keeping his distance once he knows Misaka is not to be underestimated and when Misaka used her Railgun her target was in her point of view Delsin is no typical target considering he has strange fighting patterns and like I always say is unpredictable. Delsin could easily one-shot and kill Misaka with a Hellfire Swarm or Orbital Drop which is more than probable considering she could fall for one of his Stasis Bubbles and it will be left vulnerable.
While this is true, Delsin`s agility, speed, reaction-time, reflexes, coordination and quick thinking will help him to avoid Misaka`s attacks or attempt at attacking and he has too many ways in which he can avoid Misaka she won`t expect him to be moving around in a vent.
That you haven`t proven you have only made more assumptions. Misaka`s fights were centered on enemies with a singular special ability or attribute while Delsin on the other hand is a VERY VERSATILE character that does not follow this same flow. Delsin could easily catch Misaka off-guard with his comments and mockeries. Misaka`s abilities are great but its too specific and its too limited her powers have been countered before and she has been put to the test beyond her limits she`s still a young girl who is still learning as she can die easier since she doesn`t have a healing factor and her durability isn`t as demonstrably quantifiable as Delsin`s so she can`t afford to take Cinder Blasts, Bloodthirsty Blades, Smoke Rockets, Sulfur Bombs, and Shoulder Dashes which are all more than capable of destroying cars, trucks, heavily armored vehicles, large structures and etc.
What will happen when Misaka`s Railgun fails and her electrical attacks are rendered almost useless since Delsin can tank and heal from them? Delsin has more options thus he has more ways in which he can win.
@neongamewave: Sigh... like usual another post that's nearly impossible to counter. Good thing its "nearly" otherwise this debate would be over. I will have a post sooner or later. By the way i didn't mean to post the LS thing for misaka, i copied and pasted those specific scans and i accidentally copied and pasted that in particular.
I disagree. Concrete will be tricky as well due to the nature in which it works it focuses on builds and environmental elements even with her skill and admirable accuracy she can`t get passed through something she won`t be expecting especially with Delsin`s unpredictability and slyly strange fighting patterns. While you may argue that Misaka has fought someone similar it doesn`t mean she has fought someone who fits the who, what, when, where, who, why and how the same as Delsin channels his powers much differently and thinks on his feet much more clearly in a creative way. The video power is extremely unique I don`t see Misaka having any kind of specific counter for it either due to the functionality of it and how it works. Also she won`t be able to understand it as she could suspect Delsin to being a Esper and formulate her form of thinking based on that assumption that her powers will be able to counter perfectly as it might of have to a degree in the past against all the Espers she has ever encountered. Skill and precision does not equal a winning strategy those two qualities are still held up by Misaka`s form if she loses her temper, focus and decides to underestimate Delsin (which I could see her doing) then her skill as well as precision will have to be thrown out the window considering like many other strategists she must remain calm in order to being able to process her thoughts.
Concrete is slow and useless. There is nothing suggesting it will tank iron sand slashes or a railgun let alone a blast from misaka.
Misaka's Railgun could destroy a nuclear shelter.(I do not remember the circumstances of when she actually did it, but this statement is from the author's narration so it has weight.)
Kamijou stopped so suddenly that it looked like his feet had been staked to the ground. A sudden question entered his mind.
Imagine Breaker could negate any kind of supernatural power in one blow. Not even the Level 5 Biri Biri girl’s Railgun, which could destroy a nuclear shelter in one strike, was an exception to that.
As for the iron sand manipulation
Misaka's iron sand clearly slice AIM Burst.AIM Burst is pretty durable by tanking bullets and explosives(the thing was practically bullet proof and it shrugged off the grenade as if it wasn't even there.) yet Misaka slice a limb off easily.
Video is dangerous indeed, but the only threat so far seems to be "stopping time" which to be honest i wonder if its a canon ability, because he never bothered using this against Augustine who was pretty darn powerful to begin with. And here is the thing, the only people she has lost her cool against truly(which in result made her fight less efficiently) is accelerator and touma, both reasonable reasons don't you think? Touma literally stop anything she throws at him with a slight of hand and accelerator was a monster who was basically invincible to the point where misaka would risk her own life just to take him down. Petty insults won't be enough to affect Misaka's meta game. This isn't like our sonic vs stitch debate, just because she has a certain character trait doesn't mean it will have a huge effect on the battle. She doesn't bother underestimating those with powers. Especially based on your story. With the story you made, why would she underestimate someone who could potentially have an affect on her powers?
1. Not true. Delsin has more feats that relate to healing and tanking he went through a vent in which he came through a roof a he was launched into the air at a great height and came right back down to ground level but did not feel a thing this also supports the fact that Delsin can and does survive impacts that deal with crazy heights as well as altitudes (Delsin makes a comment about what he did not being right as a normal human wouldn`t survive the same impact during the scene in which he goes straight through the vent) also that instance in regards to dealing with the bullets was during the time he was still discovering and unlocking the truth behind what he can do just like with many superhero-stringed and plot-lined characters. Also in terms of gameplay your missing key components to understanding how Delsin`s encounters are characterized when going up against other Conduits or DUP soldier units is that multiple attacks are being made against him at once and eventually his vitals begin to drop or seem that way due to being under heavy fire but its not immediately that this happens it takes time also Misaka`s attack can be avoided and Delsin could always restore his health as well. If Misaka got shot in the head or chest she would die on the spot from a bullet so your point about Delsin having a healing factor as a detractor is void considering he can rebound from lethal attacks faster and more frequently than Misaka can (who rather avoids attacks or defends against them) and he tanks more on a daily basis.
2. Incorrect. That was at an early stage in which he was learning to understand his abilities later throughout his journey after accumulating new abilities it is shown that he can phase through elemental attacks, gunfire and certain objects also that was more with the ability of Smoke if I`m not mistaken. And even if you were to be correct it still proves my point about Delsin`s adept mobility he can maneuver around Misaka especially since he has a great deal of experience when it comes to facing enemies who were faster or just more aware than he was but that didn`t stop him from using his survival instincts.
3. That`s what you think as I have to disagree. While Misaka has crazy backup in brutal measure Delsin would have more of the backup plan also he doesn`t have to engage in direct combat he could use it as a distraction and temporary plan until he unleashes one of his key attack power associated abilities revolving around Orbital Drop and Shoulder Dash.
4. We`ll see.
1.The video you showed further proves my point.
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The no fall damage mechanic existed since the first game. Considering how this mechanic clearly has no limit, i am not going to assume that delsin is ridiculously durable. Especially considering delsin could simply cushion the impact with his smoke abilities. Its kind of unreasonable.
Misaka's durability has no relevance. She more capable of being on the defensive AND offensive than Delsin is capable of doing so. Delsin has to move around and dodge, misaka is one hell of a marksmen, and has really good senses, she can precisely shoot bombs out of the sky, and she can react to graviton explosions. She utilizes her agility but she doesn't have to rely solely on it.
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She can easily snipe a small target such as a spoon from a feet feet away the second she saw it.(you say that she flips the coin, but she doesn't do this all the time.)
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She used a shelf to protect herself from bullets being fired at her.
This is the quote from the light novel of her dragging a shelf to her and crushing it, explicitly after the bullets were fired, implying both good reactions and magnetic movement speed.
However, the problem was that they held rifles or handguns in their hands. The flash and roar did make them flinch away and it succeeded in taking a few of their senses from them, but at the same time, their trigger fingers pulled back almost reflexively.
Even more bullets flew through the air.
Mikoto had been heading for a nearby shelf, but she gave up on that and used magnetism to forcibly pull the shelf closer.
The rifle bullets could easily pierce straight through the shelf.
However, Mikoto used magnetism to crush the shelf raising its density. As a result, it just barely managed to stop
2.
The fast healing ability is as natural as Deadpool's healing factor. Its automatic. Delsin has no control over it. If delsin did have control over it, and he was the one who had to monitor it and utilize it, don't you think he would have died when he took those bullets since he still didn't understood his powers back then? Its hard to use your survival instincts when everything coming at you is ridiculously fast in the first place. Lightning blasts, large AOE shockwaves, railgun shots moving at 3 times the speed of sound if not more,(light speed according to the manga) Iron sand that moves at supersonic speeds and so on. Her attacks are not only swift and deadly, they are precise, and yes i been saying this a lot so far, but its a fair point. Precision is a selling point in combat. She crafted her abilities for years. Delsin was given powers to him on a silver platter, and sure he is good with these powers but not skilled IMO. There is a difference. Sonic or Flash, both are great speedsters, but clearly flash is more skilled with his speed than sonic is. Or superman and goku for example, superman uses his physical abilties in far more intelligent ways than goku does. You see where i am coming from? I am not saying delsin is not skilled per say, but he has an inferior level of experience and training in my opinion. And assuming that he can adapt to a situation where immense pressure will be put on him i find it hard to believe he will survive as easily as you are making it sound.
3.The location is likely a city, otherwise Delsin wouldn't have access to neither video or neon which would cripple him heavily. Not only can misaka create cover, she can run up the builders to avoid the attack and so on. Shoulder Dash is not a threat either. Heck. If misaka wanted to she could use a car or something bigger for a railgun in order to counter.
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4.Hopefully.
If you look at the scene again all the bullets manage to do was slightly bother himmomentarily. That was at the beginning of the game where he was still learning to adapt to his current state while also finding a way to encode within the right discipline in maintaining that state when in the use of controlling his powers it wasn't him at his peak which makes a difference and it doesn`t change the fact that he managed to heal from them also he laughed off the shooters attempts as he got right back up seconds after quite literally. I know he`s no Clark Kent but he doesn`t have to be ( funny thing is that Delsin likens himself to Superman as he mentions Superman within the beginning of the game when conversing with his brother). I understand where you are coming from but your failing to understand the unpredictability of Delsin`s character while that is true for Cole it doesn`t mean Delsin is slouching behind and I wouldn`t outright discredit a game-mechanic that has been applied to cutscene appropriations in which as shown in-game it is further given name in a cutscene and if you don`t believe me you should go back and look at the Orbital Drop (there are two cutscene/story related instances) feats I have been showcasing but to revitalize and reiterate my reasoning I will provide a demonstration and this furthers the fact of what I mean.
All of this has been addressed above.
Why not? The point I was trying to make was that Delsin is fully capable of operating and functioning at those speeds the comparison between distinct abilities is irrelevant since they all end up supporting the same idea and Delsin has superior cutscene feats another important thing to note is that its a cinematic. Also the fact that you yourself acknowledge the actualization of what happened in the scene says alot considering its a repeated cinematic that stays true and consistent to the cutscenes in the game even if you were right would you say that Delsin isn`t atleast indeed fast or that the developers weren`t trying to convey something about the character on-screen rather than off-screen?
What significant speed feat am i seeing? All i see is delsin moving away from an RV then the RV exploding a few seconds afterwards. I see nothing significant for you to prove in regards to his speed.
This is speed
Now here, she crossed 200m extremely quickly, with the sound of a gunshot being used to describe her movement. Now as a low end she was moving a little over half the speed of sound, but the sound of a gunshot seems to support supersonic speeds (which works if she crossed the distance in less than a second).
About 200 meters ahead, a family of four was walking in one section of the packed parking lot. The orange was at the boy’s feet. He must have kicked it again and again. Part of the skin had torn off. The orange was squirming eerily. It looked a bit like a heart about to die.
It looked like something breathing was about to burst out of it.
There was no time.
Mikoto had no idea how many crimson long-legged army ants were hiding within the orange, but she did not want to think about what kind of damage would be done to the boy that was kicking the orange were it to burst and there were even 50 or 100 of them inside. And if even a few of the ants that would scatter in every direction were allowed to escape, they would begin breeding after only a short period of time creating a seemingly infinite number of them.
She could fire a lightning spear or her Railgun.
A few options came to mind, but none of them would work.
She may be able to obliterate the orange, but that level of attack would only scatter the tiny ants around making it entirely pointless.
She could not solely rely on her power.
“…!!”
Like she was juggling a soccer ball, Mikoto lightly kicked up a tin bucket lying in the outside area for home garden products.
She manipulated magnetism.
An invisible force caused the tin bucket to swing around like a wrecking ball on a chain.
A heavy sound echoed out like when one swung a bat through the air.
The bucket flew down from diagonally above the boy, flew upside down just past his shoulder at high speed, and struck the ground covering up the orange on the parking lot ground. A metallic clang rang out as orange sparks flew.
“Ee!”
“Out of the way!!” yelled Mikoto, but she clicked her tongue immediately afterwards because Japanese wasn’t going to get through to the boy.
Luckily, the family of four was paralyzed by the sudden occurrence. Their lack of motion made things easier for Mikoto.
Purple electricity flew from her bangs.
With a feeling like the power in her forehead was being released externally, she controlled her power and the charged high voltage current was released all at once.
A loud noise similar to a gunshot rang out.
Mikoto put herself between the boy and the bucket and forced him away. She kept her gaze on the upside down bucket.
Brooke was years ahead of Delsin when it came to controlling concrete and she was more prepared when up against Delsin as she had more than a fair amount of info in regards to his powers she knew what abilities he had mastered and maintained throughout his journey yet Delsin is able to use her own ability against her and defeat her soundly. His Concrete Armor is able to tank her attacks while she in a newly advanced state and Misaka`s whip won`t do a thing against Delsin`s concrete armor which shields him from explosions, heavy artillery fire, elemental attacks and it cuts down damage that is dealt to him as well so Delsin can afford to dash into Misaka`s first person view and knock her down with a Shoulder Dash. Also if you were to compare opponents what Misaka fought wasn`t nearly as durable, resilient and heavily built as Brooke in her new spider-like form as Misaka in that fight was able to carve it up easily and reduce it to nothing before it could even react and I don`t see how Delsin wouldn`t be able to replicate that he would probably do even better and in the process humble Misaka.
Continuing on, A battle that delsin prepped for as well, not only that got a crapton of assistance from Eugene. And he used her own ability against not through skill but through his specific power. Every time he absorbs a core relay, he instantly is given a new power and delsin gets a glimpse of said power and its uses. Misaka's iron sand slashes through russian tanks like butter.
The diesel engine let out a roar as if in response. They were only 2 kilometers away from where the surface-to-surface missiles were being fired.
The independent unit seemed to have given up on the bombings, but they had brought out a tank unit that had been hidden behind a hill. Even if they were prepared to be hit a few times, they would be completely blown away if dozens of tanks focused their fire on them.
“By Misaka’s estimations, we will be hit by the blasts 20 times before we can travel 500 meters, says Misa—”
“Then we’ll finish this before that!!”
A black shadow squirmed around Mikoto’s tank.
No.
It was a large amount of iron sand that had been sleeping below the snow. She thoroughly gathered it from approximately 200 meters around her and brought it together using magnetism.
It must have looked like a wall to her enemies.
That wall of despair was like a giant tsunami about to strike the land.
That was the #3 Level 5.
She was not just a cannon.
There were only two people she knew who she could not handle even with skillful application of her power. Those two were the espers who stood at the extremes. One at the extreme of justice and one at the extreme of evil.
“Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!”
As she yelled, the huge mass of iron sand passed by overhead and crashed into the enemy forces ahead. Like an undulating tsunami or like a living snake, that mountain of iron sand swept across while vibrating at high speed. The independent Russian unit was unable to deal with it.
Of course they weren’t.
No matter how many times they shot it, the swirling iron sand did not slow down in the slightest.
*skip*
Mikoto sighed slightly and then looked around.
Black smoke was rising from the tanks and armored vehicles of the independent unit. They had been sliced cleanly apart by the friction of the iron sand that was vibrating at high speed and could stand up to the assault rifles and handguns the unit had been armed with. Given the destruction, it was odd that no one had died.
Now the friction required to force iron sand through reactive tank armor is easily supersonic, if anyone wants to calc that. Crossing 2 kilometers extremely quickly is also nice
Brunhild(the superhuman i was talking about) was also forced to use a sonic boom to handle it rather than dodging, which seems to support a fairly high speed when required.
But before i show that quote here is the quote of Misaka reacting to her swings and stopping them via magnetism.
Brunhild Eiktobel was aiming for Mikoto’s neck with her claymore, but the sword stopped in midair.
But once again it did not last even a second.
As if it was stuck in a wall and she was pulling it out, Brunhild ignored the great magnetic power and used her tremendous arm strength to forcibly swing the giant sword horizontally.
She couldn't stop her for long. I mean there is some things you just can't overwhelm.
Misaka reacted to her movements. And we get a clear narration of that character's movement speed.
Academy City espers may have possessed quite a bit of power, but Brunhild Eiktobel possessed the rare qualities of a Christian Saint. And on top of that, she also possessed the rare qualities of a Norse Valkyrie. The two abilities worked against each other and the upper limit of her power changed over a set period like the waxing and waning of the moon. However, she did not currently appear to be having any problems related to that.
And there was a problem that came before trivial differences in power.
Brunhild Eiktobel could reach a top speed that exceeded the speed of sound.
And she brought out that top speed from the very first step.
By the time the explosive noise rang out, it was already too late.
From the perspective of one’s bodily senses, Brunhild seemed to just disappear. And since she was moving faster than sound, one could never react in time based on sound.
Brunhild Eiktobel charged up to a point right in front of Mikoto and vigorously swung up the claymore hanging down from one hand.
She also twisted her wrist to lay the giant sword down flat as she swung it.
Normally, this may have been an attempt to not hit one’s opponent with the blade of the sword. However, the situation here was different. Brunhild Eiktobel could move at supersonic speeds and the claymore she held was like a giant sword made by attaching a grip to a metal sheet.
By laying the blade flat, she could use it like a giant fan made of steel.
An overwhelmingly violent fan that used the massive shockwave created when an object moved at supersonic speeds.
That would end it.
Not only would it crush the girl’s fat and muscles from the outside, but her eardrums, lungs, and trachea would rupture from within.
However…
“Damn you!!”
“!?”
She reacted just before it hit.
A dull noise came from below their feet. The ground below moved. The road at the top of the overpass was made in blocks that included the supports below. The girl controlled one entire block with magnetism to tilt it like a seesaw.
This caused Brunhild’s aim to be off with her claymore strike and the sonic boom flew off into the distance. All the glass in one of the buildings alongside the road was smashed to pieces.
Finally, here is Brunhild going out of her way to counter Misaka's ironsand.
She snapped her fingers and shouted, “Be swallowed up!!”
The iron sand rose up in every direction.
It all began vibrating at high speed to create a storm of killer needles and then shot towards Brunhild Eiktobel from all 360 degrees around her.
Brunhild grabbed her giant claymore with both hands and swung it around in a full circle like she was performing a giant swing.
The explosive roar came slightly after the fact.
The air was agitated at tremendous speed and that deadly swarm that was being controlled by great magnetic power was struck by the even more tremendous power of the sonic boom created. The iron sand lost its form and was blown away.
Mikoto escaped the shockwave by controlling the rebar in the overpass road to create a thick wall of concrete in front of her. She used magnetism to once more gather the scattered iron sand and check on her next target.
As you can clearly see, the ironsand is deadly enough to threaten superhumans like Brunhild and is fast enough to force her to counter and fast enough to travel 2 kilometers in a couple of seconds.
also it would be more so the type of attack rather than the method so there`s no guarantee that it would work only wishful thinking.
I don't understand what you mean by this.
And it will. Misaka is fast, agile and has her head in the game but she can be overcome in the right circumstance when she`s angry she loses focus which is one of her personality traits and she doesn`t always operate at peak speeds she has to create distance and then focus her movements as shown with most of her strategies against threats she simply cannot defeat with sheer dependence on her abilities and the stasis bubble acts on a AoE type effect especially when unleashed to its maximum most of the area is engulfed and it affects gravity so she will be caught eventually also do you have proof for why she would be able to defend herself especially when enemies trapped in the stasis bubble can`t do a thing? Also with Evil Karma Delsin instantly incinerates his enemies which goes back to the Stasis Bubble.
You see the basis you are using to argue that she will get hit is that she won't be focused because she'll be angry. If she is fighting against a serious opponent, she wouldn't waste time getting angry.......Her battle against frenda and mugino prove this. She still strategically fought against both of them despite being in a dire situation she was still focused... BTW in this fight with frenda and mugino she was already completely exhausted from days of constant fighting and power use with no rest or food, and collapsed in the fight immediately after this.
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In these scans we see misaka directing the falling debris away from her position, avoiding several bombs, eventually getting grazed by one. Considering how well she handled this despite her condition, your argument about her getting angry still doesn't stand.(Because believe me, there has been times when misaka has been pissed but instead of getting sloppy she absolutely wrecks her opponent.......like Telestina)
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She stopped claymore shrapnel at point blank which moves at around 1,200 m/s or mach 3.5. She sensed it in the air and used just the necessary amount of power in order to shoot every small piece to dust.
Continuing on. This next showcase shows exactly why Delsin using his chain against misaka is basically suicide.
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Her level of magnetism makes it ridiculous to even attempt to attack with a metal chain.........
This is what happens when you piss off misaka mikoto
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Overkill. When Misaka saw the bloody torn leg of Misaka 9982.Misaka uses her electromagnetism to control over 100+ train rails.......
Back to Frenda.
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She attempts to end it one last time by dropping crap tons of bombs from above, shutting the door so misaka doesn't escape and launching fuse lines so she can detonate the bombs. Misaka counters this by simply lifting up the platforms which in turn cuts off the fuse line.
Despite her versatile and deadly her opponent was after desperately fighting for several days, she still maintained a cool head in this fight.
Just because she has little temper tantrums at touma doesn't mean she cannot control herself in a serious situation..........
While Misaka as I stated earlier is gifted and has amazing sensory abilities these instances only illustrate the fact that this ideal identified trait is more so grounded when Misaka is aware and can atmospherically sense everything that is around her against visible opponents while it would prove useful it doesn`t chance the stance of my point which still stands. Misaka hasn`t used this strategy and attributive advantage against invisible opponents if I`m not mistaken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_I34nshlOPk This fits the moment so well.
Anyway.
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Look at these scans Mr. Gamewave. You just said that she has never used this in a situation where her eyes or ears couldn't assist her but this showcase clearly shows that she can do this pretty much anytime she wants. She always has this on. Elaboration on this? This ability is so natural to the point where she is always using it. Even her colleges decided to leave her as a last priority in a hunting game due to her having no blind spot. http://i21.mangapanda.com/to-aru-kagaku-no-choudenjibou/46/to-aru-kagaku-no-choudenjibou-2992571.jpg
So yes she will indeed use it to track delsin when he goes invisible, the radar sense is second nature to her. Its no different from any of her other senses.
Misaka possesses a distinguished ability of being able to sense electromagnetic waves just like how Star Wars characters have precognition which allows them to react to things they couldn`t normally react to as they themselves don`t exceed or don`t always exceed hypersonic+ range in speed also later on in the fight Misaka loses her composure and doesn`t stay consistent with her level of movement and she got outsmarted later on in the fight by Frenda another important thing to note is that she knew when the missiles were going to hit. It wasn`t out of nowhere Frenda was giving her the idea that she was about to send something her away although I will say that Misaka is maybe capable of reaching those speeds with her unique characteristics rather than innately instructed personal abilities basically her stats its also important to understand that she`s not always functioning at that level and she still has her limits when she takes damage she will slow down like any normal human pretty much but since you mentioned speed, you want speed? Well, I`ll give you speed and more!
Doesn't matter. The speed of the guided missiles still have to be taken into consideration, she may have avoided the missiles before the explosion, but the speed of the missiles are still relevant! Now Mikoto not only exceeded the speed of the missiles at close range, but also exceeded Frenda's kinetic vision, seeing as she didn't notice Mikoto's movements up to the point of the impact of the missiles. Some pretty impressive speed there..And here's the thing. Misaka isn't like those guys from starwars, she is more like toph, her senses are ridiculously accurate. Precognition is a completely different animal which allows even people like touma to keep up with superhumans like Vento or Accelerator who clearly have a edge in speed in that matchup.She got outsmarted by Frenda. I don't see your point. Along with the fact that most of her bad moments can be defended or ignored by the fact that Misaka tried to destroy all of the facilities involving the Level 6 Shift project.She was doing this for a couple days without any rest time to recharge and sleep.
As for your video on speed? its more on instincts and quick thinking not really speed.......(heck not even instincts, common sense. "Oh no the tower is falling, oh whatever shall i do? Oh i know i will get out of the tower before it collapses with me!") your entire anaylsis can easily be dropped despite its detail when you said the following: "I`m not referring to speed as in the typical sense. What I mean is what goes back earlier to the beginning of this debate, Delsin`s instincts! He can make it out tight spots and survive even when the stakes are raised" I ask for speed feats. Nothing more. If you cannot prove that Delsin will have no trouble dealing with her level of speed and reflexes then this argument about instincts is useless. Not even cole himself who was one of the most powerful conduits recorded in the infamous series has shown anything close to dodging bullets after they are fired. The closest thing to superhuman reaction we have seen in infamous was in the comics when Cole stopped a rpg missile from hitting its target. Misaka on the otherhand you cannot deny that she has consistently shown superhuman reaction times not only her, several characters in the series including her own clones are capable of this. Espers have accelerated brains so this isn't surprising. Delsin on the otherhand, you haven't shown much. This is going to go down the same way it went with Frenda. At the end of her fight with mikoto, "I'd advise against moving carelessly.......In this situation the electricity would hit you first no matter what." The only reason why this wasn't the case in their fight, was because misaka herself was clearly drowsy and not only that Frenda distracted her by speaking in some random language. Anyway what she describes to Frenda could easily happen to Delsin.
also Misaka`s ability reminds me of Neji`s ability with the Byakugan it just allows for the user to understand where the attack is coming from and with right timing they could avoid the attack as their senses tell them where the attack is going to hit but this ability doesn`t always work. Spontaneous and unpredictable maneuvers can get the better of these abilities if done right and Delsin being the unreadable and undefinable fighter that he is just like how Toma is as well although Toma is plot-powered to a degree even he can get the better of Misaka when the time calls for it.
Different. Like i said its more precise, its more like toph's seismic sense but more limited. And referencing touma is great and all but Misaka and Touma only fought what? Twice? And the third "fight" He literally let her win. Not only that Misaka has a huge crush on him believe it or not, she always holds back. Look at how she uses her iron sand against AIM burst and look at her shes uses it against touma......... you cannot tell me she wasn't holding back. All delsin really is going to be doing is dodging around, and spamming blasts, with the occasional grenade. And the occasional close combat attempt which will spell doom for him if he does attempt it. I mean sure he is insanely mobile but its not really an issue. Not only that, his more devasting techs can be avoided easily thanks to her ability to cling onto walls, increase her jumping ability and so on and so on.
Misaka won`t be able to understand Delsin`s weird fighting patterns and creative interchanging in relation to his very versatile and diverse powerset also I don`t recall Misaka fighting someone as versatile and inventively indescribable as Delsin also whose not to say that Delsin won`t realize Misaka`s level headed attitude and take action in having her unknowingly distracted? Also he too can create smoke due to his Smoke ability he can manipulate fire and embers I wouldn`t be surprised if he manged to do this against Misaka randomly (as it ends up working) rather than strategically considering Delsin learns along the way and is originally unorthodox in the way that he adapts.
What is there to understand? Depending on who he starts with the level of complexity and the time period of which the fight will last varies. Concrete, slow and predictable. Neon, one dimensional, deadly but one dimensional. Video is literally the only one i am struggling to think of how to beat it due to how confusing it is. Not to mention the fact that Delsin has to get a source to switch powers. He can switch to Concrete and Smoke the fastest so he will without a doubt start off with either of those. Do what exactly? Attempt to trick her by using smoke? Heck Misaka can probably use that against him....... Can Delsin even see through smoke? I highly doubt. Misaka however can do just fine. She wouldn't need her eyes.
As evidenced in my statements, I was more so referring to Delsin`s Smoke ability and he has shown that he can phase through bullets, enemies, he takes an almost incorporeal form when in doing this your thinking more of his Dash abilities as he progresses through the plot he demonstrates new traits in regards to what he can do and he can pass through vents. Why can`t he? He`s phased through elemental attacks before and even if he couldn`t he can still take cover through a vent which shouldn`t be hard to notice also he wouldn`t need to phase through it and the game consistently gets the point across in regards to Delsin`s ability to phase as well as remain untouchable.
Can he phase through one big AOE attack?
Lol Phoenix Wright you have no right in claiming objection sit down the court is still in session.
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll172/Uchiha_Tsukiko/Phoenix%20Wright/ContradictionsPoster.jpg this is all i have to say.
Your misconstruing what I`m communicating. My point was centered around the fact that he has a healing ability and there was a respective as well as very specific scene in which he rebounded from being shot the reason why gameplay (which in this case is apples and apples) is a factor is because with his healing ability he can at one given time take multiple forms of damage which includes heavy fire from a variety of enemies and the reason why the gameplay may imply that is because of the situation he is in he doesn`t like to unnecessarily engage in violence or take risks all the time also how does this help support your case for Misaka who would die from a bullet instantly rather than heal from it like Delsin does casually? Easy. Why do many video game characters survive from gunfire in cutscenes but die from it when in gameplay? Its because of game mechanics Delsin is not an anime, comic, novel, and etc. character being a video game character comes with a certain understanding that is determined by the level of balance.
Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. You're ignoring the argument i was present in regards to that, simply to defend this. He cannot take too much damage all at once. Saying he can take heavy artillery fire is ridiculous. And also you just dug your own grave. If you only defense is "game mechanics can be BS if they want to" then you are contradicting yourself considering how you were using them to prove a point about Delsin's capability to survive falls from great heights.(I can basically turn this entire argument against you and say the only reason why he can survive the level of heights you showed me is because of game mechanics like i did above) And like i said before Misaka's level of durability is irrelevant. She can go on the defensive far better than Delsin can. She is far more agile than delsin who has to rely on phasing around and semi-flight to actually get around. Has better reaction speed and movement speed(via her abilities which i will explain after the debate if needed) And her iron sand utilization is so fast, deadly and powerful it can be used defensively to block or counter attacks.
Let's watch her fight against Mugino shall we?
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Here she is, the meltdowner.
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While Mugino was having a conversation with Frenda, Misaka attempts to attack her while she can with a tanker. Mugino quickly destroys it in mid-air.
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Misaka is not only being tracked down, she is getting all forms of cover that she can utilize blown away. BTW logically speaking those beams of hers are LS but that could potentially be inconsistent so i won't argue LS reactions.
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The scans are in reverse BTW. So start from the last scan on the right.
She was not only dealing with those two, Frenda obviously hopped in as well. So she had a cool head despite getting ganged up on in such a strategic situation(for the enemy anyway) Bombs were preset, fuselines flying allover the place, her position already known, deadly laser blasts nearly reaching their targets. She was already heavily wounded, exhausted as hell and her powers were running low. If she can survive a situation like this and manage it properly, why is delsin so different? He doesn't have the precision or coordination that these espers had.......
These next two scans are just a preview of how she handles going one on one against Mugino.
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She cleverly puts metal stuff into the bombs, and controls them so she can make one hell of an assault.
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Then her real strategy begins.
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Probably one of the most clever things she has done in this entire fight. She then reuses the bomb to destroy the facility at last.
However, Mugino is still conscious.
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Dodges her beams at point blank range,and formulates her options on how to escape(she completed her goal, there was no real reason to fight. )
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Just barely gets away from her. But her quick thinking saves her.
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Its in reverse. Sorry about that.
You see this? If she can survive a situation like this. Why would Delsin be such a threat?
She was exhausted and tired, beaten up and wounded and she kept a cool head and kept on formulating strategies. She has a quick temper against the likes of touma or kuroko. Her friends. She has no time to be getting angry during a serious fight. Even if she was getting angry it wouldn't effect her. This is the same thing with our debate in Sonic vs Stitch, a certain trait like cockiness or holding back or angry is not a reason to instantly assume that will affect a fight. Sonic for example. Sonic holds back a lot. He even mentioned it in Sonic Battle and The Archie Comics. However, he can still fight seriously while making hilarious sarcastic jokes. Even when getting beaten to the ground sonic is capable of tossing a joke or two. Stitch, even when getting beat down himself he will still bark madly at his enemy, or still think of a way out. Unless you are talking about someone like Vegeta from DBZ, taunts, insults and what not will not affect a character in battle. Most characters are capable of keeping a cool head, even then it depends on the situation. Let's say the main hero is fighting a long time nemesis, this nemesis has killed the hero's parents, and everyone he loves, the hero was serious the whole time but when his enemy said that, that made him snap and lose his composure. Delsin doesn't know Misaka at all. What insults can he possibly throw at her that would really make her mad? Mugino was talking all kinds of shit about her and that didn't affect Misaka. NOT ONE BIT.
I can say that I highly doubt someone as prideful and forward as Misaka who got the tables turned on her by someone like Frenda is going to take down a guy who is as versatile as Delsin who can multitask and not stress out in the middle of a situation despite having all the odds against him and depending on a electromagnetic ability isn`t wise considering it only works to a certain condition or standard Misaka has to be focused and in full attendance also considering how she can crack pretty fast and act out in rage says that the guy who isn`t practical or drains energy from different mediums is atleast smart enough to exploit that disadvantage considering he`s done so before against many enemies.
Not really surprising how she fell for it.
She wasn't at the top of her game mentally or physically. I explained this. If you want i can show you scans of how much this incident affected her emotionally but i am sure that would be a waste of your time.
The bluff that Frenda through at her was that gas was surrounding them. If you had abilities that would ignite explosions you would hesitate as well as would Delsin. She had to take everything into consideration. Can't say the same for Delsin who wanted to rush after Brooke as soon as he got his powers.
Seconds right after she fell for the trick she came to the realization that it was a trick with a well thought out analysis that not many would think of unless they had her scientific knowledge.
She fell for someone's trick, how does that have any relevance to how she strategically got herself out of that situation and many others easily. And how does that have any relevance towards her in comparison to Delsin?
Yes that ability is impractical. He could be under heavy fire and wouldn't be given a chance to really get out and get a different ability to match the situation. The same could apply if he fought misaka. I am pretty sure in this battle Misaka will be exposed to all of Delsin's abilities at one point. She will figure out how these abilities work. Video? Annihilate any TVs or Satelitess near by(Hell she has enough power to cause a city wide blackout, if she finds out about video, she can resort to this.) She has the range and ability to do so. Neon? Destroy any lights that he could absorb power from.(she can fire off multiple lightning bolts far faster than Delsin could reach a single light bulb or sign. Hell she could do the same thing she would do for video, city wide blackout.) Concrete and Smoke are barely threats themselves. Concrete's most powerful tool the shoulder smash could easily be avoided and by god could be wrecked by a railgun or iron sand swarm. Smoke is interesting but lacks power in comparison to his other powers. If Delsin himself relies on a single power, Misaka with her superior intelligence and mind will eventually develop a strategy against it. Based on simple movement patterns of ITEM(Mugino and Co.) she could tell that her movements was being tracked and while simitaneously avoiding their onslaughts of preset bombs and laser blasts, she was attempting to formulate a plan. If anything, Misaka is the one with the instincts. She is always put in a situation and always finds a way to react to said situation. Physical superhuman that is immensely superior in every single way? She watches her movement patterns and counters accordingly. Esper with access to over 10,000 abilities? Cautiously fights her, till she eventually knocks her unconscious via sneak attack. Her Clone with the intention to incapacitate accelerator instead of wasting her time blasting him which she knows won't work, she attempts to rob him of his oxygen.
Misaka 10032 created a area of Ozone
Misaka Imouto took steps back to put some distance between her and Accelerator as if she were fleeing from his advance. Misaka Imouto paid close attention to the situation around her and continued to flee back sometimes to the right and sometimes to the left. The carnivorous beast that was Accelerator chased after her with a look of pure boredom in his eyes.
“C’mon, c’mon, c’mon! That’s pathetic! What the hell are you hoping for?! No matter how much time you buy yourself, there isn’t gonna be a miracle!”
Misaka Imouto was not listening. She did nothing but put distance between her and her enemy while keeping that enemy in her range of vision. Accelerator felt like the blood vessels in his head were going to burst, but then he noticed that the girl was electrifying the surrounding air.
“Oh, come the hell on! Surely you know that’s fucking useless! And I’m not going to play along with your pathetic attempts at resisting much longer!”
Accelerator laughed mockingly. He could reflect any attack that was thrown at him and Misaka Imouto was purposefully not firing the electricity at him out of fear of that. The sparks were flying around him, but no actual attack came his way.
“What’s with her?”
Accelerator gritted his teeth, but then he noticed that he was short of breath. At first he thought he had used up too much oxygen by talking while running around, but it was too odd for that. A sharp stench sent off alarm bells in his head.
“Tonight is a windless night.” Misaka Imouto’s voice reverberated throughout the still air of the switchyard. “As such, Misaka may have a chance of winning, calls out Misaka.”
Accelerator checked on his surroundings again. Misaka Imouto continued to run away, she was firing electrical attacks around him, he was oddly out of breath, and he could reflect any direct attack.
(Ohhh, I see. Ozone, huh?)
The oxygen in the air could be broken apart with electricity. Oxygen molecules were normally formed from two oxygen atoms, but once the two oxygen atoms broke apart, they had a disposition toward connecting together in threes as ozone.
Oxygen and ozone were two different things. Breathing it in would not satisfy one’s lungs.
And as was obvious from its use in sterilization, it was toxic.
No attack would reach Accelerator, but that did not change the fact that he was a human that breathed in oxygen and breathed out carbon dioxide. If all the oxygen were removed from his surroundings, he would suffer from oxygen deprivation.
Misaka Imouto did not need to approach Accelerator. In fact, it was imperative that she kept her distance from him so that his attacks could not hit her while she continued to rob him of his oxygen
BTW this could be a viable strategy to use as a last resort.
Your attempts to lowball never cease to amaze me.
also how is it possible when Delsin tanks explosions, bullets, energy beams, lava and etc? And he has to directly counter by shooting at the lightning cause why? Can`t he just phase through it or use Laser Focus to slow down time and find a weak spot despite Misaka`s ability to disable blindspots? And what will that do if dangerously focused concrete can`t take down Delsin how will iron sand will lol. Delsin could easily counter with his concrete armor which activates on instant instinct and it nullifies a lot of damage that is dealt since Delsin is at full power it will nullify more than 30% so it wouldn`t matter if Misaka managed to tag him with lightning or iron sand considering he is equipped as he is also prepared and this could leave her open for a Stasis Bubble.
1.What is your definition of the word tank? Because remember, you were the one who said there is a certain understanding in gameplay mechanics to be taken into consideration.( Also he hasn't tanked any of what you mentioned in a cutscene last i recall....... but when i brought this up you try to defend this by saying how certain things happen that don't happen in cutscenes and vice versa. So you are contradicting yourself immensely.) Also Lava created in a virtual world. I find it hard to take that seriously. Energy Beams? Lol ok. How much force and power do these energy beams have? Explosions? Lol ok. How powerful and how big are they? bullets? I am not going to ask the same question because we both know the answer. Because i guarantee you that misaka's lightning has far more force then all those you have listed. And you still haven't told me how he is "tanking" a railgun. Also as for Laser Focus, what do you mean slow down time? You mean everything? Because if that's the case i would call BS. Because he hasn't "slowed down time" against his other opponents........ And that's no different from Precision. I don't see why its so impressive. It doesn't increase his combat speed or anything. Plus Neon isn't all that fast either. IF she can dispatch superhumans that can move faster than sound.(Trust me Brunhild can go faster than simply Mach 1. ) Why would Delsin provide any difficulty?
2.Dangerously Focused concrete? Elaborate because it simply looks like soldiers chucking rocks at high speed more than "dangerously focused" concrete.(along with the fact that Delsin uses Concrete sharpnel against soldiers and they survive) Even then, i think ironsand which can cut through Russian tanks like butter and rip through steel with ease and slash through a monster who was bullet proof and can shrug off grenade launchers(Huh. He sounds more durable than Delsin, could it be? i wonder how iron sand would affect delsin?) Especially considering bullets can and will threaten his life.) Also there is one thing you have to understand, i think i brought this up in our previous debates. Piercing and cutting durability is different from blunt force durability. Even then, considering how those concrete rocks could just barely do a better job at destroying walls than bullets could, i am sincerely not impressed. Plus you aren't explaining Delsin's durability all too well, same goes for his healing factor. Can he tank so much because of his healing factor? Or can he tank so much because its his natural durability?
3. Concrete armor, yadda yadda yadda. How durable is it? Show me a cutscene of the strongest impact it has taken. Oh wait, you can't.
4. Leave her open? Hilarious! you say this as if Delsin is using all his powers at once.
Delsin could render Misaka`s abilities useless under the right conditions with Concrete Delsin has great defense as he negates damage and he can go on the offense. With Neon he could outspeed or outmaneuver Misaka aerially and since Delsin isn`t a Esper along with the fact that she has no knowledge of him she wouldn`t exactly know what to do especially since he can switch between powers with Video you are correct that it is dangerous for Misaka considering he can summon angels and demons while remain under the effects of his invisibility also it will be hard for her to sense him considering the differentiation that is a result of the different dividing factors that the ability encases and encompasses in with regards to full effect against the idea of it being a standard and conventional ability. Its not just some energy its actual digital and visual pixels in every sense of the word its a very special ability and it will catch Misaka off-guard even if Delsin were to be an Esper.
I`m pretty aware of the Railgun and I know it won`t be the biggest issue also for more context on the ability Video. The showcase here provides his battle with Eugene this is where he tanks lava (Delsin even makes a comment about it during the fight) and a highlight video detailing the mechanics of the ability.
Considering how long it has taken me to make this post, i have taken the time to think about each ability individually.
1.Concrete. Its slow but durable. And believe it or not, the ability can be turned against him in multiple ways. Ironsand can be produced via concrete, or rock and minerals and what not. What is Delsin going to be made of when he charges at misaka with a shoulder dash? Also you still haven't provided any durability feats for concrete that will lead me to believe that he is tanking getting slashed to bits by iron sand or tanking a railgun(whether it would be via her usual arcade coins, a fire hydrant, or a freaking car.)
2.Neon is faster aerially this may be true but even then its arguable. I didn't want to say anything because it may affect the rest of the debate somehow but you wanna know the secret behind Misaka's movement speed? Magnetisim.(its a theory more than actual fact but it would explain a lot.) I would show you several instants in order to emphasize on this but instead i will show you something from Magi the labyrinth of magic.
Gallery
This is how Misaka fights according to others and herself "three dimensionally" you may be thinking "how does this help her?" Here is another feat of her jumping across the city.
Gallery
If she can use this ability to increase the power of her jumps this benefits her. If Delsin is "aerially" moving past her, she could just jump fast enough to grab him or shoot a blast at him. She could easily get to heights similar to delsin, or adjust to the height delsin is at.
3. As for Video, the science you are providing for Video is absolutely ridiculous. By that logic, he shouldn't even be touchable(he should be intangible even so sneaking behind her would be pointless when he can just walk through her or something.) or visible(in general) if he is using this ability and his powers shouldn't do what they do. Also its clear that despite video being active, he is somewhat still physical so he is still an object. If Misaka "sees" something via radar sense moving towards her, i don't see why she wouldn't detect him coming at him. And considering how much you were riding on that invisibility power he cannot use any other abilities using video so don't act as if he has so many options while he is invisible. Because it seems that his power is reduced when using this.
Besides. Read this again.
Unique Sensory Perception of Electric-type Espers: As an electromaster, Mikoto is of course able to sense electric, magnetic, and electromagnetic phenomena. She is, however, able to follow the electric and magnetic field lines using her eyes, something that normal electromasters are unable to do with their limited power.She takes this ability one step further by analyzing the reflections of the electromagnetic waves she generates, giving her no blind spots.
4.If you know smoke is barely a threat in comparison to the other ones then i have no need to continue.
Also do you think Delsin is going to be standing around or waiting in one direction like a target that is defined by a straight path? He`s going to be constantly moving, firing energy blasts, bringing forth to the forefront explosions and he`s going to moving around vehicles Misaka will have to be lucky in order to hit him especially since Delsin can fly anytime he wants and during the time she decides to use her Railgun ability Delsin may already be in the air. Also Delsin can counter back with his Laser Focus ability he can manipulate time relative to his perception and expose an even more easily traceable weak point since Misaka will be in a focused position attempting to keep Delsin in her aim of focus and he could fire off Cinder Blasts, subdue, Bloodthirsty Blades, and more....
You say as if its so hard for misaka to aim with her railgun........
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If she can do this. Please i beg of you. I am pretty much on my knees at this point. Begging you how in the world can you tell me that delsin simply flying around would prevent her from using the railgun? And what do you mean weak point? While he is busy trying to do that, the railgun will already being fired at him........
So while Misaka will probably be out of options as she succumbs to the pressure or her temper, Delsin will remain confidently cool but then there`s also Evil Delsin, and unfortunately I think this will end up happening to Misaka.
I am sorry when i first saw this, i had to get out of my chair. Drink some water. Take that in, and then i started laughing at how ridiculous this is. If he even comes close to her with anything metal misaka would simply turn that against him. And lets assume that by some magical miracle Delsin gets that close to misaka like that and manged to even wrap her around like that. He is getting zapped with a million volts. Heck not even, he will get kebab'd with iron sand.....
While Misaka may be more tactical and smarter than Delsin she herself proved that those advantages can be overcome with the right timed dynamic and she`s not far faster I haven`t even seen a single feat from you that showcases her as being as agile, maneuverable and mobile as Delsin. Delsin has fought intelligent and experienced opponents also Misaka`s anger could cloud her judgement (she`s far from being perfect and she can be a prideful character at times) also sometimes she tends to underestimate her opponents while Delsin is more so on the playful and clever side of things he could use that to his advantage he has before to some extent.
Batman is more agile than quicksilver. But quicksilver is far faster than he is.........."Delsin has fought intelligent and experience opponents." Aside from Augustine who wasn't that impressive in terms of direct combat considering the extent she takes her powers, who did he really fought that was "intelligent" and experienced? We can do CAVS on Augustine vs Misaka or against any of the opponents she fought if you want. I don't mind. It will end with them being on top. You clearly underestimate the to aru verse. And you say intelligent but what exactly do you mean? Misaka can formulate several different approach methods in combat, and can approach a situation strategically, or scientifically. You cannot say the same for Delsin considering the player is operating Delsin in a fight. And again and again you say her anger will cloud her judgement. But that's pretty much very unlikely which i have proven in my post. And she doesn't underestimate anyone. She gauges an opponent and based off what she sees she acts accordingly. So knows how to hold back, i am sure you know this. Even if by some miracle Misaka gets pissed or desperate that would simply encourage her to go all out, and she may overdo it in result. Also the whole playful and clever thing does not equate being a jerk or being extremely annoying like characters such as Sonic or Deadpool or Spiderman. And that personality doesn't really seem possible since you are using a composite delsin, a combination of both good and evil karma which makes absolutely no sense since Good karma has a certain level of power with certain abilities while Evil Karma is the same, a certain level of power, in some cases stronger. A composite Delsin simply conflicts his capabilities.
The problem with the Railgun is that it isn`t some instantaneous energy attack or homing attack its not like a IT Kamehameha due to the fact that Misaka flips a coin being a metal object into the air and then that object accumulates that amount of speed due to friction and in that time Delsin could be moving around constantly in the air or on ground level or he could just be in a vent keeping his distance once he knows Misaka is not to be underestimated and when Misaka used her Railgun her target was in her point of view Delsin is no typical target considering he has strange fighting patterns and like I always say is unpredictable. Delsin could easily one-shot and kill Misaka with a Hellfire Swarm or Orbital Drop which is more than probable considering she could fall for one of his Stasis Bubbles and it will be left vulnerable.
Except that it can be done pretty damn quickly. She doesn't need to flip the coin to fire it. Its just a habit of hers. If she is in a fight where she has to use it in a certain situation, she would simply put the coin in position and fire it........ And about the whole Karma Bomb thing. Those are even worse than what you were trying to imply for misaka's railgun. Look how long it takes for Delsin to initiate those techs. You really think Misaka doesn't have the common sense to simply oh i don't know.......move? Misaka can simply take out a coin, point and shoot. You cannot and absolutely cannot say the same for delsin.
Delsin`s agility, speed, reaction-time, reflexes, coordination and quick thinking will help him to avoid Misaka`s attacks or attempt at attacking and he has too many ways in which he can avoid Misaka she won`t expect him to be moving around in a vent.
Reaction time and reflexes. Hahahahahaha. No. You have not shown a single feat regarding reaction time and speed, all you showed me was delsin's "instincts" which was more common sense than quick thinking.
That you haven`t proven you have only made more assumptions. Misaka`s fights were centered on enemies with a singular special ability or attribute while Delsin on the other hand is a VERY VERSATILE character that does not follow this same flow. Delsin could easily catch Misaka off-guard with his comments and mockeries. Misaka`s abilities are great but its too specific and its too limited her powers have been countered before and she has been put to the test beyond her limits she`s still a young girl who is still learning as she can die easier since she doesn`t have a healing factor and her durability isn`t as demonstrably quantifiable as Delsin`s so she can`t afford to take Cinder Blasts, Bloodthirsty Blades, Smoke Rockets, Sulfur Bombs, and Shoulder Dashes which are all more than capable of destroying cars, trucks, heavily armored vehicles, large structures and etc.
What will happen when Misaka`s Railgun fails and her electrical attacks are rendered almost useless since Delsin can tank and heal from them? Delsin has more options thus he has more ways in which he can win.
1.More assumptions of what? That she has higher reaction speed and speed in general? Which can be backed by so many feats that i can literally make an entire post dedicated to her speed? That she is more agile? That she doesn't heavily rely on the help of others to get out of jams against powerful opponents? COUGH COUGH Augustine COUGH Or the fact that she is far more intelligent in combat than pretty much a majority of the infamous cast? Or the fact that you think what Delsin does is strategy when its simply him going at a straight forward objective? Especially considering how delsin's "instincts" in battles and "strategies" are not really quantifiable considering the combat style we see players use cannot be assumed to be the combat style of Delsin? And who is the one making assumptions? I recall you "assuming" that misaka is immature enough to react in anger to simple mockeries. I recall you "assuming" that invisibility would work on someone who does not need to rely on sight. I recall you "assuming" that misaka's attacks aren't fast enough to hit their target when they clearly are because i don't recall Delsin being anywere near the speed of sound.
I told you this once and i'll say it again. Misaka's durability is highly irrelevant. Delsin will be forced to be on the defensive while Misaka can easily be on the defensive whenever she wants far faster and more efficiently than Delsin can. Delsin also isn't going to have the chance to do anything, because of his slower reaction and movement, which i've kept saying. Delsin is going to be on the defensive from the beginning, if he can survive at all. Mikoto can also use multiple attacks at once, shocking Brunhild while at the same time throwing a huge concrete block at her. Hell, she can even control the freaking road. Her powers have been countered by lets see...... a guy with insane precognition who literally can negate any power there is whether it would be a railgun or a magical seal on someone's curse or some effect of a semi-reality warper, a guy who can control all vectors and was beat by the guy i mentioned earlier who can negate all powers, while everyone else has failed against him even entire armies, a woman who has a similar ability to hers structurally, and a woman who temporarily had access to 10,000 esper powers at her disposal. I can think of a few others but like the ones i mentioned they had abilities that allowed them to hard counter misaka........ Oh would you look at that, another baseless assumption........ assuming that her ability is so hard to counter because its been countered by others. Despite the fact that these fighters had significant advantages in their own ways.......
2.It won't though. That's the thing. And even if it fails her once she can fire several. Hell she once mentions how she can do a railgun SHOTGUN of all things. Jesus Christ. And what part of 3 times the speed of sound all the way to the speed of light don't you understand? Delsin will not, and cannot react to a railgun. Tank and heal from them? What part of one shot don't you understand?
A small coin was shot out at 3 times the speed of sound, cutting the thick and heavy pillars. The armed men were terrified by the shrapnel that was falling due to the pillars being shot. The espers who were standing in a higher story were aiming at Mikoto’s head, but lost footing due to the pillars breaking and fell down. The railgun slammed into 20 steel pillars before slamming into another building, causing a crack in the wall before the energy was completely lost.
And again blunt force durability is different from piercing and cutting durability. And you haven't shown me any durability feats that proves he will survive. Oh snap, he survived grenades, and bullets and energy beams which barely have any force. If a small coin moving at several times the speed of sound doesn't somehow slash him in half than i am sure a fire hydrant or maybe a car moving at similar speeds will kill him. Here is the thing you don't understand about your own character. He cannot take too much damage at once otherwise he would die. Why do you think he retreats when taking heavy fire? For the heck of it? No. He does it because if he doesn't, let me spell it out. HE. WILL. DIE. If his healing factor was as good as you say it is, he would literally be fighting like deadpool or ban from seven deadly sins, he would be walking and taking everything thrown at him. But that's not the case. Its limited in its own ways. He isn't immortal. You have not shown Delsin regenerating from something as powerful as her railgun. Let alone tank it.
You are really underestimating the powerful verse that is that Mikoto lives in.
Watch this AMV.
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Sigh........ I am going to make my conclusion short and sweet considering it took me days just to formulate this response.
Misaka has literally no blind spots.
Her attacks could easily reach delsin before he could even think of moving or absorbing another power. No matter how you look at it.
She can multitask. Unlike Delsin. That's the advantage of training your powers and understanding them and crafting them. She isn't the level 5 for show. This is why the likes of cole will always have Delsin in his shadow. Cole Trained, he developed his powers, worked hard to change them and make them into deadly fresh new powers.(In his first game. Cole has more powers than half if not all of Delsin's arsenal.) Delsin literally walked up to people touch them after beating them senseless, and takes samples of their power and utilize them in one simple way. Delsin's good but he is a noob. Delsin is comparable to Ben Tennyson or Maybe someone like Ash Ketchum or Static Shock. They are good and skillful in their own ways. But they are inexperienced and noobish. They are subpar.
Delsin's mobility is pretty much useless. Going through vents is not exactly that big of a deal. If he is in range of misaka's radar she could easily sense him going through one. Heck even if he goes into a vent that leads into the top of the building, Misaka can easily scale a building in a matter of seconds. I am sure she has the intelligence to pick up on the fact that delsin is attempting to create distance in order to catch his breath or think of a plan or try to get another source of power.
Pretty much any of Delsin's attacks can be avoided. Or countered.
Even by some miracle Delsin cannot be taken down, Misaka will resort to creating an ozone and wiping out the oxygen around him, depriving him of air. In turn incapacitating him.
Look this debate is growing tiresome. Especially considering the majority of it is in about 4-5 posts. We are most likely going to revolve around the same arguments. After your reply you will do your closing statement and i will do mine and we start tagging people for votes. Sound cool to you?
Concrete is slow and useless. There is nothing suggesting it will tank iron sand slashes or a railgun let alone a blast from misaka.
Misaka's Railgun could destroy a nuclear shelter.(I do not remember the circumstances of when she actually did it, but this statement is from the author's narration so it has weight.)
By presentation it may seem that way but it’s under the surface underestimation on your part your looking at what`s above not under and at face value rather than how its validated. The main strength that is provided with the concrete ability is defense which also serves as an offense it doesn`t matter if you think it’s slow in motion it makes up for that with its defensive capabilities and there is plenty suggesting it could protect Delsin from Misaka`s attacks. Brooke was shielded from Delsin`s Hellfire Swam which is capable of causing more damage than Misaka`s Railgun ability.
That`s good but not good enough. Delsin destroyed and sank an entire Tower level structure with just Hellfire Swarm also it doesn`t require as much aim, patience or precision as Misaka`s ability which can only succeed so far it requires that her target is set on a specific path and considering Delsin`s advantage when it comes to absolute mobility I don`t see how she will prevail.
Also this demonstration says otherwise:
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As for the iron sand manipulation
Misaka's iron sand clearly slice AIM Burst.AIM Burst is pretty durable by tanking bullets and explosives(the thing was practically bullet proof and it shrugged off the grenade as if it wasn't even there.) yet Misaka slice a limb off easily.
Well while I see where you’re coming from there`s a clear distinguished disadvantage that comes with your argument as the advantage within the argument is in fact a disguised disadvantage.
The AIM Burst can endure through punishment in the form of explosive and blunt force damage but piercing damage is different considering it’s a focused method in which durability can be penetrated because it requires the exploitation of a weak spot so it makes sense that Misaka was able to cut through it very easily there are many examples I can give in regards to characters being complete bosses when it comes to tanking and sustaining injury from a wide-radius explosion or object that can produce a certain level energy induced explosion but are vulnerable to sharp objects and also the AIM Burst still is inferior in regards to comparison of feats when compared closely to Brooke. Also the following showcases how even lesser individuals with the concrete power are pretty efficient I don`t see anything really slow or sluggish in this fight.
https://youtu.be/RT61dHX19Gk
Video is dangerous indeed, but the only threat so far seems to be "stopping time" which to be honest i wonder if its a canon ability, because he never bothered using this against Augustine who was pretty darn powerful to begin with. And here is the thing, the only people she has lost her cool against truly(which in result made her fight less efficiently) is accelerator and touma, both reasonable reasons don't you think? Touma literally stop anything she throws at him with a slight of hand and accelerator was a monster who was basically invincible to the point where misaka would risk her own life just to take him down. Petty insults won't be enough to affect Misaka's meta game. This isn't like our sonic vs stitch debate, just because she has a certain character trait doesn't mean it will have a huge effect on the battle. She doesn't bother underestimating those with powers. Especially based on your story. With the story you made, why would she underestimate someone who could potentially have an affect on her powers?
Really? It’s definitely a canon ability there is ABSOLUTELY nothing in the game that goes against that fact. He actually did and the cutscenes don`t have to prove that also its more for story purposes than anything (which has no bearing here) also its irrelevant to a fight taking place in a very conditioned circumstance its Misaka vs Delsin not Delsin vs Augustine once again. And it’s literally used by Fetch throughout her very own storyline within First Light Augustine mentions the usage of the ability and he trains with it. Also Augustine even mentions the fact that Delsin accumulated new abilities that should include Laser Focus since it’s a key mechanic that works alongside his key set of abilities. It still does not change the fact of what I already stated she still can lose her cool and what adds to this is that once she finds out that Delsin is no Esper, and that she can`t find a way to properly counter his abilities she will eventually lose it. Actually they would considering she can still be very prideful at times and she may think of Delsin as being a low-level, Esper although he`s Conduit and I know that. I`m not saying it will have a huge on the battle only that it will play its part in the battle overall there`s a clear difference and that`s because she has a rough idea of that particular esper, also if you look again Misaka is in angry mode which is very reasonable considering this has never happen before the way it is happening now so of course she will underestimate Delsin considering her character has prideful attributes in regards to attitude and she`s mad at the fact that her powers are making her feel strange so by locating the source in the form of Delsin Rowe she will be more bothered by someone who is a stranger if it was somebody she was more familiar with for example Touma and Accelerator it would be much different.
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12:50 - 14:00 - As you can see Laser Focus is a prime predetermining mechanic that is emphasized in both dialogue and gameplay. Nice try, but I caught on really quick.
The video you showed further proves my point.
No it doesn`t and the video you provided doesn`t prove a thing either. There is a lot of things wrong with your comparison and argumentation.
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This instance proves my point.
12:45 -13:05
· Cole has nothing to do with Delsin and the video I provided showcases Delsin`s unique healing abilities and also there was a scene which correlates back to his jumping capabilities he can sustain and survive injuries from great falls/heights.
· That is a specific ability by Cole who is not the same as Delsin both characters are different types of Conduits with their own attributes and Delsin`s healing abilities were more so emphasized.
· Even if you were right how would you explain the in-game implications?
The no fall damage mechanic existed since the first game. Considering how this mechanic clearly has no limit, i am not going to assume that delsin is ridiculously durable. Especially considering delsin could simply cushion the impact with his smoke abilities. Its kind of unreasonable.
You are correct and incorrect. While it did exist since the first Infamous it also works in character to that first game not Second Son it applied to one character but that doesn`t mean it applies to the other and what goes against your logic as well is again the fact that Delsin himself confirmed that he can sustain the effect of a great impact from amazing heights and Delsin possesses more of a healing factor that is connected to his unique attributes if he`s using Smoke, Video, Neon or Concrete their all going to function the same way in regards to Delsin`s ability to heal the only differences and distinguished designations being how the abilities work in relation to how they were designed to work when in combat the game goes out of its way to say that Delsin must take cover to heal regardless of what ability is attributed at the time so you cannot apply Infamous to Infamous Second Son when even from a gameplay standpoint the game mechanics themselves received an upgrade and rendition.
Misaka's durability has no relevance. She more capable of being on the defensive AND offensive than Delsin is capable of doing so. Delsin has to move around and dodge, misaka is one hell of a marksmen, and has really good senses, she can precisely shoot bombs out of the sky, and she can react to graviton explosions. She utilizes her agility but she doesn't have to rely solely on it.
But that has a limit. She can keep on the defensive and offensive but her limits are still limits she can only go so far and that is far from true. Delsin can tank her attacks and be fine with it especially since she has no answer for him utilizing a vent or using his Dash abilities while she`s still just a human character running, ducking and dodging around with some nifty lightning relating abilities that`s all she has going for her and although Misaka is indeed talented when it comes to landing a hit on her opponent most of her track record consists of stationary and predictable opponents she can`t use the same strategy against someone as unpredictable as Delsin Rowe. While that is impressive it again goes back to her precognitive sensory traits with Delsin`s abilities they will be covering a greater radius, area of effect and encompassing a great environmental range than what Misaka is used to and considering Delsin can slow down time on top of being able to subdue her just by aiming she`s probably out of luck on this one.
She can easily snipe a small target such as a spoon from a feet feet away the second she saw it.(you say that she flips the coin, but she doesn't do this all the time.)
https://youtu.be/QKzVd4A3rUg
Delsin has dealt with snipers before or just individuals with great precision aim.
Also I was speaking in general terms and while that is a good feat even she needed focus, precision, patience, certainty in regards to understanding the position of the target the spoon is easily in her perception and it was basically target fixation as she was looking at a fixed and defined target. Delsin isn`t anything like that he`s going to be moving around and dashing everywhere like usually does also what makes it even worse is that he can take it to the air as high as he wants even Misaka has her limits in regards to what she can reach. This also goes back to expert marksman in the Marvel and DC universes who have trouble in handling moving targets or targets that can dodge and are always on the move or covering behind obstacles.
She used a shelf to protect herself from bullets being fired at her.
This is the quote from the light novel of her dragging a shelf to her and crushing it, explicitly after the bullets were fired, implying both good reactions and magnetic movement speed.
That`s a cool feat but by reading the context that is underlined underneath the text there`s quite more to it than meets the eye.
While Misaka did in the long run react to the bullets she didn`t do it naturally she had to use her magnetic abilities to guard against the bullets and it even explicitly states that she gave up on the thought of trying to make it towards the shelf with her own reaction speed which means she probably wouldn`t have made it in time which is why she pulled a Magneto and had the shelf pull towards her direction instead while also altering it in the process to create a defense the bullets could of gone through the shelf and killed Misaka but she saved herself with the proper defense although her instinct was pretty well highlighted in that instance it’s not overly impressive considering Delsin`s attacks are going to be hitting harder and will be effecting a lot more area than what simple bullets could hope to ever accomplish also he has many explosive attacks that he can launch on the fly and he has abilities that only require a target in which he can have that target immobilized.
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The fast healing ability is as natural as Deadpool's healing factor. Its automatic. Delsin has no control over it. If delsin did have control over it, and he was the one who had to monitor it and utilize it, don't you think he would have died when he took those bullets since he still didn't understood his powers back then? Its hard to use your survival instincts when everything coming at you is ridiculously fast in the first place. Lightning blasts, large AOE shockwaves, railgun shots moving at 3 times the speed of sound if not more,(light speed according to the manga) Iron sand that moves at supersonic speeds and so on. Her attacks are not only swift and deadly, they are precise, and yes i been saying this a lot so far, but its a fair point. Precision is a selling point in combat. She crafted her abilities for years. Delsin was given powers to him on a silver platter, and sure he is good with these powers but not skilled IMO. There is a difference. Sonic or Flash, both are great speedsters, but clearly flash is more skilled with his speed than sonic is. Or superman and goku for example, superman uses his physical abilties in far more intelligent ways than goku does. You see where i am coming from? I am not saying delsin is not skilled per say, but he has an inferior level of experience and training in my opinion. And assuming that he can adapt to a situation where immense pressure will be put on him i find it hard to believe he will survive as easily as you are making it sound.
You’re failing to understand what I mean. My point wasn`t that he controls it only that he`s more aware of how it works and can utilize it to his benefit it later on in the story it’s more of a reactive instance in that particular scene because that`s when he realizes how it actually works and that`s not true also that should be said for Misaka rather than Delsin considering his survival instincts are based around things coming at a fire rapid pace while in Misaka`s case its very different. None of that compares to Smoke Rockets, Sulfur Blasts, subdue, and railgun as I said before still requires a certain level of precision on Misaka`s part even if it were to be lightspeed the attacker herself isn`t lightspeed only the attack it’s up to Misaka to launch the attack also Delsin can traverse at light-speeds with his Neon ability and he can phase through the attack if he so wishes. Iron Sand won`t do a thing when Delsin`s covered with concrete armor which breaks down damage that is dealt to him directly also he can counter with Stasis Bubbles and Focus which could also easily counter Misaka`s railgun attacks. All of that is cool but it doesn`t matter when your opponent can slow down time, fly into the air, dash from Point to Point B in more ways than one, enter vents and take on an energy form also Misaka used the best of her attacks against typical opponents who weren`t as half as versatile or maneuverable as Delsin. She did but you could say the same for Augustine and many of the other Conduits Delsin faced they had years of experience when it came to understanding their abilities also Delsin has even beaten individuals who were responsible for giving him the ability such as Hank and Misaka`s abilities in a way are still straightforward despite being fairly complex and he makes up for his lack in skill with his instincts, wits and heroics he`s beaten characters who were much more well-resourced, researched and refined in skill than he was before Misaka won`t be anything new although she will surprise him due to her age and her exceptional talents but other than that there`s that much to say that she would prove to be overwhelming especially when she can only rely on one ability trait which in turn limits all the other factors such as skill and etc… That again can only go so far against an opponent who doesn`t fit inside the same box her powers and talents worked appropriately when up against other espers in the right situation who had easily exploitable weak-points in their fighting style and ability usage. Those are bad examples the Sonic and Flash example is apples and apples both are MAINLY speedsters there`s nothing that really divides them by that much also Flash is way ahead of Sonic when it comes to speed in terms of Goku vs Superman that is also untrue. Superman uses his abilities in more intelligent and beneficial ways in regards to saving the world but Goku being the fighter that he is meant to adapt, learn and become there`s clear differences between this Kryptonian and Saiyan. Also that isn`t a big issue as I again showcased threats that were more dangerous than Misaka and were as skilled Augustine has heavy military training and she has been using the power of concrete for many years yet Delsin used it against her and won in one straightforward fight also the comparisons don`t correlate well because Delsin and Misaka are very much different also Delsin is more versatile this alone makes up for any shortcoming because some of Misaka`s own adversaries didn`t have the best skill or discipline yet they still manage to overcome her such as Touma and Accelerator . I don`t see why there would be a lot of pressure for him considering he wasn`t under pressure when up against Augustine, Eugene, and etc… He can keep his cool pretty well just like how Spiderman, Wally and etc. could make light of a serious situation but Delsin remains focused.
3.The location is likely a city, otherwise Delsin wouldn't have access to neither video or neon which would cripple him heavily. Not only can misaka create cover, she can run up the builders to avoid the attack and so on. Shoulder Dash is not a threat either. Heck. If misaka wanted to she could use a CAR or something bigger for a railgun in order to counter.
Pretty much. Delsin has the advantage due to his mobility and I doubt Misaka has any answers for Delsin going into vents or flying above ground level also that`s not a good idea considering Shoulder Dash smashes through cars and it negates a lot of damage she would be taking more of a risk than him also even if you were somehow correct and I was wrong, Delsin`s Shoulder Dash ability can be switched on and off while in combat its smooth and fluent Delsin creates combos with Shoulder Dash so I wouldn`t be surprised if he was able to avoid Misaka`s Railgun considering Laser Focus is more useful due it being time manipulation.
Also while those two showings are impressive what I noticed is that Misaka still had to build up the energy necessary to pull off the Railgun and it fires in a straight line another important factor to note is that it’s what I`ve been saying the whole time. Her target was in a fixed position and didn`t move from that position it was a easier target considering it was a much bigger one for the second one a build-up was once again needed and precision as well was the input in which the attack was launched in again a straight path.Also it’s not like Delsin hasn`t already reacted to phosphor beams and laser fire from a much more experienced Neon user.
https://youtu.be/mWXAIf_jvsY
And this is what Fetch is capable of she has a rather impressive background when it comes to training and honing her abilities also she`s very crafty with them. These three examples will give you a good idea of what she`s made of and what she`s capable of.
What significant speed feat am i seeing? All i see is delsin moving away from an RV then the RV exploding a few seconds afterwards. I see nothing significant for you to prove in regards to his speed.
This is speed
Then you fail to realize the message behind the movement of speed. It just shows Delsin`s instincts and coordination he can move as fast as he needs to avoid Misaka`s attacks the point of the speed demonstration to emphasize the fact that Delsin`s carefully he`s not going to stand around or brashly jump into danger or not be aware of the signs around him of impending danger it’s not simply speed that is being discussed it is action because thought becomes action and speed is reaction.
https://youtu.be/Z_Ic9SYt8WE
28:55 - 29:16 - This is how fast Fetch can go before meeting Delsin YEARS LATER. This is not her at her true potential this is authentic movement, combat and reaction speed there`s more fluidity here than what Misaka ever showed also Fetch is fighting multiple opponents at once from every angle. Delsin had to face her face to face and use her own Neon ability against her.
Continuing on, A battle that delsin prepped for as well, not only that got a crapton of assistance from Eugene. And he used her own ability against not through skill but through his specific power. Every time he absorbs a core relay, he instantly is given a new power and delsin gets a glimpse of said power and its uses. Misaka's iron sand slashes through russian tanks like butter.
He didn`t really prep for her he only knew what to expect and Eugene helped but it was Delsin who beat Augustine also Eugene himself wasn`t present in the actual fight it wasn`t two against one if it turned out that way then you would have a point. Also Delsin being able to use the concrete powers against Brooke is still rather impressive considering he just mastered them when first attaining the power and that`s my point again it’s his wits, quick thinking and survival instinct (which also can be referred to as survival skills) that allowed him to win that makes up for the skill disadvantage and how does that take away from Delsin`s feat or my argument? Cutting through Russian tanks won`t be the same as cutting through Delsin`s concrete armor which reduces damage plus Delsin has a healing ability and his concrete armor enables him to destroy cars, trucks and DUP vehicles which are heavily armored also that`s if she manages to hit him considering he`s not going to be slouching around in one spot and skill almost becomes useless when you can`t read your opponent`s movements or can`t come up with a plan B not only does Misaka have 0 knowledge on Delsin but also being a Conduit makes him different as versatile as he is she won`t be able to read his movements properly.
As you can clearly see, the ironsand is deadly enough to threaten superhumans like Brunhild and is fast enough to force her to counter and fast enough to travel 2 kilometers in a couple of seconds.
That is impressive but it’s still not enough to say it would easily take down Delsin despite its speed considering it was a relative build-up on Misaka`s part and Delsin in that same time length could be using Video to travel aerially or summon angels and demons to distract Misaka since that amount of iron sand and the way in which the iron sand was use is based on Misaka`s focus being the conjurer for it also Delsin could bring it down or nullify Misaka`s chances and hopes in being able to utilize her iron sand with Radiant Sweep or Hellfire Swarm. Misaka also again had a bit of an issue reacting to the resulting shockwave just like Garaa`s chakra sand she needed her iron sand to act as a defense and Delsin`s attacks possess more firepower also the range is very wide so Misaka probably won`t be able to dodge quick enough considering the nature of the attacks are meant to cover more distance and area also Misaka most likely won`t expect such attacks since she doesn`t know Delsin and how his fighting patterns work which could prove to be a massive problem for Misaka in the long run especially since Delsin outclasses her in versatility by a large margin.
I don't understand what you mean by this.
Basically, what Misaka utilized in her instance in regards to her strategy when in relation to the electrons Is not the same as Delsin`s Conduit abilities and like I said it’s more of an assumption on your part than anything. There`s no 100% guarantee that it would work on a ability that is almost fundamentally different in the way that it functions and is used.
You see the basis you are using to argue that she will get hit is that she won't be focused because she'll be angry. If she is fighting against a serious opponent, she wouldn't waste time getting angry.......Her battle against frenda and mugino prove this. She still strategically fought against both of them despite being in a dire situation she was still focused... BTW in this fight with frenda and mugino she was already completely exhausted from days of constant fighting and power use with no rest or food, and collapsed in the fight immediately after this.
I think my basis remains correct based on what has been said before and I believe this to be the case because it’s more than likely that it will happen once she realizes that Delsin is not a Esper but is something more. That is true but she doesn`t know Delsin and his character is much different also while she did incorporate some form of countermeasure against Frenda and Mugino she still didn`t keep her composure together and even if so her fights with Accelerator as well as Touma prove this she still gave in to her emotions also what makes it worse is that Delsin will not only get the best of her with his unpredictability and versatility but his commentary will also rattle her considering she will give into the pressure eventually once she realizes that Delsin`s isn`t a typical opponent and I think it’s important to note and to know that even if I was wrong in the sense of the short-term its easily plausible to presume that Misaka at least in the long-term will lose her cool since her confidence is intertwined with her pride and Delsin will probably see through that in a drawn out fight.
In these scans we see misaka directing the falling debris away from her position, avoiding several bombs, eventually getting grazed by one. Considering how well she handled this despite her condition, your argument about her getting angry still doesn't stand.(Because believe me, there has been times when misaka has been pissed but instead of getting sloppy she absolutely wrecks her opponent.......like Telestina)
By analyzing all the scans I can say for certain that Delsin shouldn`t any significant problems in getting the better of Misaka. Also directing falling debris is impressive but as noted by Frenda it’s because she`s an electromaster as she automatically by instinct diverted the magnetic paths imagine if falling metal were to approach Magneto from above it shouldn`t be hard for him to direct it somewhere else and although you make a fairly good point about Misaka`s experiences in regards to her keeping herself together what was shown thus far still makes me believe that Delsin can accomplish this considering his abilities will be harder to counter and more frustrating also he can get to her easier because of the situation being in his favor and due to his distinct personality traits in regards to his interactions interacting with certain level threats it won`t be easy but it will be easier eventually. And also going back to the scans Misaka as shown in scan 6 as well as 7 she had problems reacting to bombs as Frenda even further noted in scan 8 and Misaka being the electromaster that she is built to specifically handle a situation like the one that she was in and distanced attacks could get the better of her but what makes it worse is that Delsin`s attacks have a larger AoE on top of being ranged attacks that are near impossible to avoid due to being homing techniques.
She stopped claymore shrapnel at point blank which moves at around 1,200 m/s or mach 3.5. She sensed it in the air and used just the necessary amount of power in order to shoot every small piece to dust.
Continuing on. This next showcase shows exactly why Delsin using his chain against misaka is basically suicide.
That`s a neat feat but it all goes back to her ability to sense things that are atmospherically apparent. I wouldn`t say that it is sheer speed on her part it’s more of a sensory it will prove useful but Delsin`s attacks have ways in which they could work around that due to the nature of the attacks he can produce larger explosions and subdue cannot be sensed all Delsin needs to do is target her and the lock-on will have her subdued also a Stasis Bubble can get the better of her also and Delsin could easily hide within vents or scale buildings so that she could lose focus so his unpredictability makes it so that he is unreadable and Misaka usually analyzes a situation then actively responds but Delsin not being a particular Esper grants her new gained problems.
Delsin has many ways in which he could use a melee weapon that is not composed of metal and with the Smoke enhanced chain it’s not 100% metal it has core pryo aspects.
Her level of magnetism makes it ridiculous to even attempt to attack with a metal chain.........
This is what happens when you piss off misaka mikoto
This could work only there is a problem Misaka clearly says in the last scan that non-ferrous materials could`ve worked meaning materials that are not iron but Delsin`s chain isn`t again 100% iron or conventional it has unique properties and even if you were right all Delsin needs to is slow down time this kind of works in his favor because as clearly shown with the scans, Misaka needs a certain level of concentration to statically have the objects manipulated its by static in that amount of time, Evil Delsin since you think a pissed off Misaka is scary (although I see what you mean) could instantly have a Stasis Bubble trap her in which he has her incinerated and what happens when Delsin uses concrete?
You think a pissed off Misaka is scary? Lol, Deathhero now this is much more scary...
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7:11 - 7:40 - Fetch eradicates her enemies too you know...
And then there`s Evil Delsin who sadly does things like this...
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Overkill. When Misaka saw the bloody torn leg of Misaka 9982.Misaka uses her electromagnetism to control over 100+ train rails.......
Back to Frenda.
I don`t see why Evil Delsin couldn`t just use a Karma Bomb to blow Misaka up while she`s in a state of anger or fury he isn`t going to be standing around or conversing with her for a couple of minutes. And Delsin`s super-healing will allow him to tank whatever Misaka throws at him whether it be elemental or blunt force damage.
She attempts to end it one last time by dropping CRAP tons of bombs from above, shutting the door so misaka doesn't escape and launching fuse lines so she can detonate the bombs. Misaka counters this by simply lifting up the platforms which in turn cuts off the fuse line.
Despite her versatile and deadly her opponent was after desperately fighting for several days, she still maintained a cool head in this fight.
Just because she has little temper tantrums at touma doesn't mean she cannot control herself in a serious situation..........
Nice feat but I looked into those scans to every detail possible. While it is a good way of showcasing that Misaka is a quick thinker and focused individual the problem is she didn`t outright react to Frenda`s bombs and the fuse lines since all she had to is activate her electromagnetic ability which is a direct countermeasure to that of Frenda`s abilities, there was more in Misaka`s favor than the other way around also none of Misaka`s adversaries are as unpredictable, unique and versatile as Delsin.
Her opponents are not as versatile and Misaka is pretty much built to take them down as evidenced with all your scans and examples she had metal around her in which her powers could operate in ways that allowed her to respond positively to the situation although it may have looked like she was out of options this was even confirmed by Frenda herself.
My point is not that she is going to go temper tantrum mode only that Delsin could use her personality traits as a weakness and ultimately get the better of her that way since she could still be pushed also Misaka keeps her cool in a situation mostly because she`s confident enough to believe that her electromagnetic abilities will aid her as made visually clear in her encounter with Frenda although she was a bit nervous and unsure she stayed cool knowing that her powers will work ways around the situation. Frenda`s dialogue in relation to my explanations helps elevate these facts to unarguable degrees.
This is where it all begins and this is where it all ends when this song plays the stakes are set at an all-time high.
Look at these scans Mr. Gamewave. You just said that she has never used this in a situation where her eyes or ears couldn't assist her but this showcase clearly shows that she can do this pretty much anytime she wants. She always has this on. Elaboration on this? This ability is so natural to the point where she is always using it. Even her colleges decided to leave her as a last priority in a hunting game due to her having no blind spot. http://i21.mangapanda.com/to-aru-kagaku-no-choudenjibou/46/to-aru-kagaku-no-choudenjibou-2992571.jpg
Their awesome scans Deathhero and your awesome always :) However by looking into the scans I by correlating it back to the anime version can say it’s the same case as I have been saying before. Misaka knew that Frenda`s attack was on its way and he had the benefit of knowing where they were going to hit considering she was in a very closed off area and as she admitted herself was near a wall in which she could utilize the flow of her movements also the smoke from the stun grenade still did affect her vision and sensory this is something Delsin could exploit further considering Frenda not being the same level Esper as Misaka affected her overall performance despite her knowing her information in regards to what a Electromaster is capable of. Misaka`s sensory is what really helps her in the long run kind of reminds me of Daredevil to a degree and he`s known for performing inhuman agile feats against characters that are out of his league.
So yes she will indeed use it to track delsin when he goes invisible, the radar sense is second nature to her. Its no different from any of her other senses.
The problem is that it’s never been used against someone who was out of her line of sight visually even with smoke she could still sense objects coming at her at certain speeds. Delsin can be crafty with invisibility he could be sly, subtle and his summoned demons will keep Misaka busy which will sway her focus away from him and even if she does spot him out Delsin could prepare a Hellfire Swarm.
Doesn't matter. The speed of the guided missiles still have to be taken into consideration, she may have avoided the missiles before the explosion, but the speed of the missiles are still relevant! Now Mikoto not only exceeded the speed of the missiles at close range, but also exceeded Frenda's kinetic vision, seeing as she didn't notice Mikoto's movements up to the point of the impact of the missiles. Some pretty impressive speed there..And here's the thing. Misaka isn't like those guys from starwars, she is more like toph, her senses are ridiculously accurate. Precognition is a completely different animal which allows even people like touma to keep up with superhumans like Vento or Accelerator who clearly have a edge in speed in that matchup.She got outsmarted by Frenda. I don't see your point. Along with the fact that most of her bad moments can be defended or ignored by the fact that Misaka tried to destroy all of the facilities involving the Level 6 Shift project.She was doing this for a couple days without any rest time to recharge and sleep.
It actually does. I did take the speed of the missiles into consideration I even noted that the feat itself in nature is impressive only it comes with context. By avoiding the missiles before the explosion it`s easier for her to change direction before the objects can be focused on her path and although that`s cool you have to understand being a esper vs a esper is critical in this situation. Frenda is not on Misaka`s level and can`t understand her surroundings the same way if she was exactly on Misaka`s level she would be able to perceive her or atleast expect her shift in movements and I was more so making an example with in regards to characters who are complimentary in character comparison to Misaka although precognition may be different the mechanics are almost fundamentally the same the user can react in ways that are impossible for them to do on their own even Toph needs a set path and needs to understand the area around her by feeling it also my Neji comparison holds up the same and Toph as well as Misaka still different considering the methods are different in regards to how they move around the area that is around them. It’s a bad thing considering Frenda is a lower level esper and Misaka`s way of winning was exactly determined by the sheer fact that her senses being heightened like they were enabled her to having the advantage especially since Frenda herself did not possess the same equaling attributes that could of evened the playing field. That`s awesome on her part but what does that have to do with a battle situation in which ALL is tested against you?
As for your video on speed? its more on instincts and quick thinking not really speed.......(heck not even instincts, common sense. "Oh no the tower is falling, oh whatever shall i do? Oh i know i will get out of the tower before it collapses with me!") your entire anaylsis can easily be dropped despite its detail when you said the following: "I`m not referring to speed as in the typical sense. What I mean is what goes back earlier to the beginning of this debate, Delsin`s instincts! He can make it out tight spots and survive even when the stakes are raised" I ask for speed feats. Nothing more. If you cannot prove that Delsin will have no trouble dealing with her level of speed and reflexes then this argument about instincts is useless. Not even cole himself who was one of the most powerful conduits recorded in the infamous series has shown anything close to dodging bullets after they are fired. The closest thing to superhuman reaction we have seen in infamous was in the comics when Cole stopped a rpg missile from hitting its target. Misaka on the otherhand you cannot deny that she has consistently shown superhuman reaction times not only her, several characters in the series including her own clones are capable of this. Espers have accelerated brains so this isn't surprising. Delsin on the otherhand, you haven't shown much. This is going to go down the same way it went with Frenda. At the end of her fight with mikoto, "I'd advise against moving carelessly.......In this situation the electricity would hit you first no matter what." The only reason why this wasn't the case in their fight, was because misaka herself was clearly drowsy and not only that Frenda distracted her by speaking in some random language. Anyway what she describes to Frenda could easily happen to Delsin.
Well this is the problem with your requirement. As shown heavily throughout the debate the feats dealing with Misaka and Frenda are very similar I could easily say they’re not sheer speed feats and I would be correct. Also it was a speed feat in relation to reaction and quick thinking he was able to utilize a grandiose attack within a time-frame of seconds and in that moment escape the tower that was sinking throughout everyone thought he was dead. I say that`s a pretty good reaction feat especially when your heated in battle after a situation dealing with the death of your dear brother and it’s not useless considering his instincts are vital to his character portrayal for speed also I already provided speed showings and there is still much more to show. While that is true, you can`t compare Cole to Delsin to distinctly different Conduits also Cole`s character did not emphasize on speed while Delsin`s did in regards to ways of travel and mobility your forgetting the fact that Delsin has the environment as his element how is Misaka supposed to respond to Delsin utilizing in full measure vents, buildings and etc? While I agree the problem is there`s again a huge amount of context that goes with what you`re saying. Misaka does have an impressive level of reaction speed but its limited by the nature of her environment in which her radar sense could work and its shown limitations also the enemies or espers to be exact that she fought had ABSOLUTELY no way in countering her as a electromaster which is why they had to work ways around it by manipulating her vision and so on so forth they also did so with fewer options or fewer ideas. Delsin is more creative, witty, resourceful and adaptive than the opposition that you demonstrated in your argumentation for Misaka I`m not trying to take away from the depth of the feats but I`m trying to give a better understanding on how far that depth goes. They do but that matters because? I`ve shown plenty it’s just that a Conduit and Esper is very much different despite following a straightforwardly similar concept the way in which Delsin thinks, acts, moves, readies, prepares and guides himself through the motion is different than Frenda so you can`t say it will be the same also I could say Misaka is the same as Fetch. And my comparison would be more closer to the ambition of accurate confirmation considering Fetch has a strong training background, she`s made it out of alive through days of exhaustion throughout her missions that are associated with Shane and she`s far more experienced than Delsin and smarter although Misaka and Fetch`s personalities differ you can understand the idea that they too can be compared. I could say his fight with Misaka will be similar with his fight with Fetch only there will be a few unique conditions considering Misaka`s personality difference in connection with how she chooses to perform with her abilities. Delsin would be as talkative and predictive as Frenda is especially since he`s a Conduit and Misaka has never dealt with that before especially one like Delsin considering his versatility-set is more elaborate and follows a different formula while Frenda came prepared she didn`t come with the gear to face Misaka on even grounds she`s still a lower Esper and her options followed the same path while Delsin has Video, Neon, Smoke, and Concrete added to his name and that`s offensively think about the defensive possibilities also the fact that he can heal anytime during the conflict so that he could keep himself on balance if Misaka is indeed proving to be too much for him initially and he could rethink his strategies so Delsin is VERY different from Frenda. Both Misaka and Fetch have different powers but they both facilitate and are founded on one specific attribute that being Neon and electricity respectively also both are in-depth when it comes to having a background in honing their abilities, both are very serious and experienced even before the dynamics Delsin was able to consistently move around the mechanics and win against Fetch despite her advantages also Delsin uses her own abilities against her and Conduits don`t follow a leveling system like Espers do.
Different. Like i said its more precise, its more like toph's seismic sense but more limited. And referencing touma is great and all but Misaka and Touma only fought what? Twice? And the third "fight" He literally let her win. Not only that Misaka has a huge crush on him believe it or not, she always holds back. Look at how she uses her iron sand against AIM burst and look at her shes uses it against touma......... you cannot tell me she wasn't holding back. All delsin really is going to be doing is dodging around, and spamming blasts, with the occasional grenade. And the occasional close combat attempt which will spell doom for him if he does attempt it. I mean sure he is insanely mobile but its not really an issue. Not only that, his more devasting techs can be avoided easily THANKS to her ability to cling onto walls, increase her jumping ability and so on and so on.
Not true once again. It`s definitely like Neji`s Byakugan considering his sensory in sound relation to his respective environment and I don`t see how that differs from Neji exactly. Pretty much and I`m aware of that but you’re missing the point. Touma just like Delsin and Delsin just like Touma may prove to be unreadable to someone like Misaka due to how unique and unconventional they are also this is only an assumption. He will be doing that but he will be doing so much more than just that he will be throwing around charged blasts but he will ALSO be utilizing his environment more than Misaka and Frenda ever did combined. He can use grenades to get the better of Misaka by creating smoke and after-effects due to the amount of destruction he can cause in a city environment, he can user Stasis Bubbles also your forgetting the fact that he can slow down time with Laser Focus and this is something Misaka has absolutely no answer for meaning she won`t be able to avoid his more crazier attacks especially if he`s conforming more to his darker side he`ll end Misaka quickly by disintegrating her and even she did manage to escape (which isn`t happening) Delsin could always use a bigger attack with a greater AoE right off the bat to keep Misaka off guard and thus off balance and then switch into a different ability this will make Misaka confused considering her experience in dealing with Espers. Your probably thinking that Delsin is going to be running around just tossing out Cinder Blasts, Bloodthirsty Swords and Sulfur Bombs but that still is only one of the ways lol in which he can bring forth the punishment. While he will be doing those things it will only to keep on the offensive and once he does that as he learns more about Misaka during the heat of the fight he will change it instantly to Stasis Bubbles, Subdue, Laser Focus and etc. This is something Misaka has no answer for. Misaka may be able to use the environment to her advantage but Delsin IS THE ENVIRONMENT. Also you still haven`t really addressed or debunked my point about how someone like Delsin could easily catch Misaka off guard with his powers and easily turn the tides in favor under unexpected events.
What is there to understand? Depending on who he starts with the level of complexity and the time period of which the fight will last varies. Concrete, slow and predictable. Neon, one dimensional, deadly but one dimensional. Video is literally the only one i am struggling to think of how to beat it due to how confusing it is. Not to mention the fact that Delsin has to get a source to switch powers. He can switch to Concrete and Smoke the fastest so he will without a doubt start off with either of those. Do what exactly? Attempt to trick her by using smoke? Heck Misaka can probably use that against him....... Can Delsin even see through smoke? I highly doubt. Misaka however can do just fine. She wouldn't need her eyes.
There`s a lot to understand. Misaka still had problems with Espers much lower than her and Espers that did not even possess the same capacity for versatility like Delsin also time and the matter of lasting isn`t an issue considering Delsin is way more resourceful and his powers are sourced better to keep him going in the fight. Again you’re underestimating and undermining his abilities. Concrete is a strong defense which is its primary component so being slow doesn`t take away from it considering even on offensive grounds it can be used at a moment where Misaka is either weakened by Delsin`s other attacks or during a situation in which she is subdued considering she will have no means of escape would be it slow then? I think not. It could probably instantly kill Misaka considering Misaka has good endurance and tenacity feats but that`s just like Fetch only difference is that she does not have a healing ability and she`s a normal person at the end of the day when it comes to external attributes. Concrete allows Delsin to blow up cars, trucks, heavily armored vehicles, large objects, constructs and its piercing damage which makes it worse. Neon is straightforward but not one-dimensional there are ways in which Delsin could use it to exploit advantages that are not immediate to him from the start it’s a good way of avoiding attacks, it’s a great channel in regards to his dashing abilities and it has a lot of explosive range I would say Smoke is more one-dimensional and even if you were somehow right would it matter really? Delsin can STILL Subdue Misaka or use a Stasis Bubble to keep her vulnerable and then at that point it switch from being one-dimensional to the one way ticket to taking out Misaka and that would fit really well in coordination to Delsin being the one to switch powers very well on the fly. Lol that is only one of you and Misaka`s issues. Video is probably the most unique ability in Delsin`s arsenal but he can interplay it with all his other abilities and that shouldn`t be an issue because all he needs to do is understand Misaka`s fighting ability then use his powers accordingly also he has plenty of ways in making sure that happens considering he can still subdue Misaka and keep her out of the way or just use Laser Focus. And? You’re missing the point, Misaka can understand her surroundings in regards to smoke but unlike going on the offensive it only be a distraction and Delsin doesn`t need to see through it although he does experience moments in the game within his respective universe in which he has to traverse through overwhelming amount of smoke all it will do is distract Misaka and remember Delsin in this even can turn invisible with his invisibility.
Can he phase through one big AOE attack?
That goes both ways. Can Misaka avoid Delsin`s AOE attacks? Also phasing would be one way to avoid danger what about Dash and going through vents which a city provides to a great degree?
Also if you still have any doubts about Conduits like Delsin being able to phase through things well here`s the proof:
https://youtu.be/CFQZgrZ0xoM
16:20
http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll172/Uchiha_Tsukiko/Phoenix%20Wright/ContradictionsPoster.jpg this is all i have to say.
Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. You're ignoring the argument i was present in regards to that, simply to defend this. He cannot take too much damage all at once. Saying he can take heavy artillery fire is ridiculous. And also you just dug your own grave. If you only defense is "game mechanics can be BS if they want to" then you are contradicting yourself considering how you were using them to prove a point about Delsin's capability to survive falls from great heights.(I can basically turn this entire argument against you and say the only reason why he can survive the level of heights you showed me is because of game mechanics like i did above) And like i said before Misaka's level of durability is irrelevant. She can go on the defensive far better than Delsin can. She is far more agile than delsin who has to rely on phasing around and semi-flight to actually get around. Has better reaction speed and movement speed(via her abilities which i will explain after the debate if needed) And her iron sand utilization is so fast, deadly and powerful it can be used defensively to block or counter attacks.
And you’re still missing the point. I understand what you’re saying, I understand what you mean and I understand where you’re coming from but it’s simply not enough to say that you debunked or countered anything. He actually can it`s not that he can`t take too much damage he can only take so much damage until he needs a break so that the healing process can kick in. Also it isn`t considering what I showed in regards to Fetch`s case and the story elements do imply that she can take heavy artillery this also applies to Delsin, also you would have to prove that first the difference is you are simply stating this is something but not completely confirming it confirmation for confirmation which is something else entirely. I don`t think so, I think your foundation isn`t founded on fact and my feet don`t fail me in this argument, lol this doesn`t make sense considering I proved that Delsin based on story centric dialogue does survive great heights and your only argument to disprove (which you didn`t) it was that Cole couldn`t do so in his own games although him and Delsin are two distinct characters sharing the same universe under different circumstances so you therefore cannot reverse my argument. Actually it is very relevant considering she can still tire and be taxed like a normal human if pushed enough also Delsin`s abilities don`t line up with typical Esper expectations he sets his own standards with his own powers. He has a deeper versatility-set the likability of her going on the defensive is kind of slim considering in her fights she had to rely on her environment in the nick of time to go on the defensive and she can`t transition into the offensive as fluently or as decisively as Delsin can this point should be in reverse. Delsin has more ways in which he can go on the defensive, Dash, vents, flight and more… You haven`t shown a single feat that really attest to Misaka`s agility I would definitely agree to the fact that she is fairly flexible and light with her movements but Delsin has agility as an ally more than a foe, as an advantage more than a disadvantaged and etc. Also semi-light and phasing is still useful considering they work better with the environment and since Delsin`s abilities correlate strongly with the environment around him most favorably being a city then I don`t see how Misaka compares. Her movement and reaction speed may appear that way but Delsin even if not on the same plateau can find his place standing close in going toe to toe with Misaka he may not have the raw reaction speed that she does which is more because of her sensory than anything and that is worth everything in her case (which Delsin could fluctuate and punctuate with his unique power-set as Misaka even confirmed herself that her radar ability is not invincible) Delsin has well developed instincts and he can counter her movement speed with his availability to alternative ways of alternation in regards to dash, flight and channel in which he enters a vent. It’s fast and responsive but Delsin could definitely tank it even if he wasn`t fast or beneficiary enough to dodge it also he can counter in more ways than she could throw around her neat little whip trick.
Let's watch her fight against Mugino shall we?
Yes we shall.
Misaka is not only being tracked down, she is getting all forms of cover that she can utilize blown away. BTW logically speaking those beams of hers are LS but that could potentially be inconsistent so i won't argue LS reactions.
It`s impressive but it`s still impressive with its own context that it must identify with. Misaka was using the walls and environment to avoid the attacks not sheer speed also she has a precognitive-like ability it`s like Spiderman when he`s using walls to maneuver around enemies and he`s avoided lasers before also it seemed more like aim-dodging than anything even if the attacks were to be lightspeed it wouldn`t be within the criteria your thinking or suggesting.
She was not only dealing with those two, Frenda obviously hopped in as well. So she had a cool head despite getting ganged up on in such a strategic situation(for the enemy anyway) Bombs were preset, fuselines flying allover the place, her position already known, deadly laser blasts nearly reaching their targets. She was already heavily wounded, exhausted as hell and her powers were running low. If she can survive a situation like this and manage it properly, why is delsin so different? He doesn't have the precision or coordination that these espers had.......
By the scans and by the nature of the fight, Frenda didn`t come in until a bit after and she didn`t contribute much it was mostly Meltdowner and Takisubo who were really giving Misaka trouble also Misaka had trouble avoiding Meltdowner`s attacks she had to direct a lot of them and Meltdowner attributed this to Misaka`s unique sensory ability and it’s an awesome showing but there are a few things I need to address. That`s not the point he didn`t have the skill, ferocity and experience that Fetch has neither did he have the wisdom or combat ability and experience that Brooke had but he still one by using their powers against them that`s an equal showing combat-wise also espers usually have an answer for another Esper`s ability, those three even though together as a fighting force did not have the necessary abilities to counter Misaka`s three dimensional maneuverability also none of them have an answer for Misaka`s radar sensory and they themselves had their limits especially Takisubo in that moment of time Misaka had more than just moments of rest and Delsin`s enemies are tougher as well as more tactical their abilities may seem more basic or elementally specific but their backgrounds and backbones really do help elevate them beyond evaluation their legitimate threats. Even if Misaka fared well against these three espers, I wondered how electrical powers will do against Brooke I doubt she would be able to take down Augustine electricity usually doesn`t do well against earth associated properties and Misaka might be worn down after a while despite her intelligence and perseverance she`ll probably be taken down brutally in the end her powers are too layered in regards to combating Espers of a different or lower or fairly close class.
These next two scans are just a preview of how she handles going one on one against Mugino.
All she does is figure out that Frenda is utilizing bombs and she has history with Frenda so it comes as no surprise but when Delsin faces a new Conduit he has some form of intel however he`s unprepared and unassured because their powers are very different and once he gets a hold of their abilities that`s when that is tested he can use their own abilities against them and win.
She cleverly puts metal stuff into the bombs, and controls them so she can make one hell of a assault.
That`s cool and all but it`s not something that is applicable to Delsin all it shows is that Misaka is a great tactician and improviser but it won`t work the same way with someone like Delsin it worked with Frenda but she can`t control any aspects that are associated with Delsin she will have to rely on her own personal abilities.
Then her real strategy begins.
Cool but not enough to take down Delsin there are too many factors involved.
Probably one of the most clever things she has done in this entire fight. She then reuses the bomb to destroy the facility at last.
However, Mugino is still conscious.
It`s amazing in context to the fight between Misaka and Mugino but that`s about it. She can`t apply it to Delsin if she could then you might have a point.
Dodges her beams at point blank range,and formulates her OPTIONS on how to escape(she completed her goal, there was no real reason to fight. )
This is probably the most important showing thus far in the showcase for this fight. Misaka like I said before has great reflexes and her endurance is top-notch but I still don`t think she would be able to deal with Delsin in the same way her abilities as an electromaster help her against other espers like Mugino and Delsin`s AOE attacks won`t give her the time to react considering she won`t know what attack to expect next that`s something she could expect when fighting Mugino and Frenda.
Just barely gets away from her. But her quick thinking saves her.
The problem is that Mugino could have easily taken down Misaka but she was talking throughout the fight for an extensive amount of time and she was just being reckless if she was half the strategist Misaka was then things could have been different. Also, another problem is that you brought up the idea that me mentioning Delsin`s instinct as being an advantage or something that is applied to an advantage within a situation isn`t exactly something that could be correlated to speed yet you brought up here in this context my main point was that Delsin`s instincts act as a form of reaction since he can think on the fly within unfavorable scenarios his instance dealing with Brooke during their first fight is more impressive than Misaka vs Mugino, Misaka had more of the advantages despite her condition due to Frenda foolishly leaving back some of her bombs, Misaka knowing her away around the facility and Mugino`s battle attitude it makes sense why Misaka was able to survive it all especially since none of them really had an answer for her abilities all Misaka did was stall and buy herself sometime if she really had to fight them 100% she probably would of lost if she didn`t manipulate any metal in Delsin`s situation it was at the last moment and he still survived the tower collapsing against an opponent far more experienced and deadly.
You see this? If she can survive a situation like this. Why would Delsin be such a threat?
I`ve seen all of it. While it is impressive and it speaks volumes of what Misaka could really do if she were to put her mind to it the feats go so far despite what I just said. She had more advantages than disadvantages the only thing that held her back was her condition and that is the most impressive aspect she had everything laid out for her and it wasn`t a full on fight it was more of Misaka dodging and reading her opponents then working around them with her unique abilities also she was on the losing end. The reason why Delsin is different is because of several factors.
· The location is different so what may have worked there appropriately within the confines of the storyline will not work well against someone like Delsin.
· Misaka could only manipulate so much she could manipulate metal but how much will she be able to manipulate in a city environment she was in a facility that housed these materials and she had the breathing time to establish a countermeasure in which she could conventionally use them.
· Mugino, Frenda and Takisubo despite their cool abilities are still not as combatively corrective as Delsin is and they lack offensive power, Misaka could bend as well as redirect Mugino`s attacks which is different than simply reacting to them which she herself admitted to having trouble with as she had to use different surfaces to gain the upper hand.
· Delsin doesn`t fight as predictably and being a Conduit factors into that because unlike Espers they don`t possess a specific traits that can be traced back through a leveling system, Misaka being a electromaster has more than enough ways to decently manage against other level espers lower or rival to her. Delsin`s fighting tactics and patterns are very different he may start off with a typical explosive or burst of energy but then he can execute techniques like Subdue, Stasis Bubble and Laser Focus which Misaka has never dealt with before.
She was exhausted and tired, beaten up and wounded and she kept a cool head and kept on formulating strategies. She has a quick temper against the likes of touma or kuroko. Her friends. She has no time to be getting angry during a serious fight. Even if she was getting angry it wouldn't effect her. This is the same thing with our debate in Sonic vs Stitch, a certain trait like cockiness or holding back or angry is not a reason to instantly assume that will affect a fight. Sonic for example. Sonic holds back a lot. He even mentioned it in Sonic Battle and The Archie Comics. However, he can still fight seriously while making hilarious sarcastic jokes. Even when getting beaten to the ground sonic is capable of tossing a joke or two. Stitch, even when getting beat down himself he will still bark madly at his enemy, or still think of a way out. Unless you are talking about someone like Vegeta from DBZ, taunts, insults and what not will not affect a character in battle. Most characters are capable of keeping a cool head, even then it depends on the situation. Let's say the main hero is fighting a long time nemesis, this nemesis has killed the hero's parents, and everyone he loves, the hero was serious the whole time but when his enemy said that, that made him snap and lose his composure. Delsin doesn't know Misaka at all. What insults can he possibly throw at her that would really make her mad? Mugino was talking all kinds of shit about her and that didn't affect Misaka. NOT ONE BIT.
Yes she was and I never ignored or overlooked that however there are varying points in those showings that help support my arguments. She only did those things under the conditions of knowing that her abilities will help her get a better of her enemy which is why in her calm moments when she is thinking to herself she`s still confident that she can overcome her opponents which was proven in her fights against Mugino and Frenda she knew their abilities, how to counter them and the environment in which they were fighting was more within their favor. In a way you are correct but in a way you are wrong while it may seem that Misaka`s temper lets loose when she`s interacting with close friends it can find its way into battle if she loses her confidence if she`s not confident enough to counter Delsin`s abilities imagine what would happen if Misaka can`t escape Delsin`s Subdue or Stasis Bubble and he`s inflicting serious damage with his Smoke or Concrete powers or Delsin uses Orbital Drop this could make Misaka feel unsure about the situation she is in. Well there`s a problem with that argument while it may not affect the fight to the degree that it would determine winner it can still affect the fight in the regard of having an effect on the overall variables that help balance and vary a path in which a fight may go so Misaka even if she were to keep her cool and stand her ground during the fight there`s still the strong possibility that her slipping up could be exploited by the opposition in that case being Delsin this could play out similar to his fight with Fetch who like Misaka can have a temper at times and is a little serious or sensitive in demeanor but the reason why is advantageous for Delsin is because he can easily notice that it could affect her performance and Evil Delsin would probably make certain personal comments about her that would provoke her to becoming more angry is more of a buildup than anything my entire point is that it can still be exploited to a noticeable degree. While you bring up fantastic points in regards to our previous debate (which was super awesome) and character portrayal that goes back to the Prince of Saiyans, Vegeta and the situation you crafted in regards to composure it doesn`t really highlight my point all too well. I`m not trying to imply that Misaka will automatically lose or submit to inner anger in which the fight would just drastically change, I`m only saying that is something Delsin could exploit because he`s done so before to a degree and Evil Delsin definitely would. Also the problem with that fight is that Misaka kept her cool because she already knew that she was fine throughout the event she knew her way around the facility, she knew she could avoid Mugino`s attacks and she was confident the entire time (not 100% but impressive) as she confirmed in her dialogue while thinking of way to strategize against Mugino in her next move. In the final moments she smiles with confidence and explains her plan to Mugino in regards to Frenda`s bombs and escaping the facility she had no reason to snap or lose it but Delsin is a different ball game. He`s no Esper and as a Conduit his abilities could prove to be frustrating to Misaka there`s only so much she could sustain until he eventually snaps or loses it for a brief moment and etc. Like I said Misaka was CONFIDENT she didn`t have to take Mugino seriously which is why her disrespectful comments didn`t budge her, Evil Delsin could say more conflicting things he doesn`t have to know her he could comment on the nature of her abilities the way she looks and more also for the simple fact that she doesn`t know him it may be more insulting at least with Mugino and Frenda she already in a way knows what to expect from them especially in regards to being an Esper standpoint with this said my point still stands in its original perspective.
Not really surprising how she fell for it.
She wasn't at the top of her game mentally or physically. I explained this. If you want i can show you scans of how much this incident affected her emotionally but i am sure that would be a waste of your time.
The bluff that Frenda through at her was that gas was surrounding them. If you had abilities that would ignite explosions you would hesitate as well as would Delsin. She had to take everything into consideration. Can't say the same for Delsin who wanted to rush after Brooke as soon as he got his powers.
Seconds right after she fell for the trick she came to the realization that it was a trick with a well thought out analysis that not many would think of unless they had her scientific knowledge.
She fell for someone's trick, how does that have any relevance to how she strategically got herself out of that situation and many others easily. And how does that have any relevance towards her in comparison to Delsin?
Yes that ability is impractical. He could be under heavy fire and wouldn't be given a chance to really get out and get a different ability to match the situation. The same could APPLY if he fought misaka. I am pretty sure in this battle Misaka will be exposed to all of Delsin's abilities at one point. She will figure out how these abilities work. Video? Annihilate any TVs or Satelitess near by(Hell she has enough power to cause a city wide blackout, if she finds out about video, she can resort to this.) She has the range and ability to do so. Neon? Destroy any lights that he could absorb power from.(she can fire off multiple lightning bolts far faster than Delsin could reach a single light bulb or sign. Hell she could do the same thing she would do for video, city wide blackout.) Concrete and Smoke are barely threats themselves. Concrete's most powerful tool the shoulder smash could easily be avoided and by god could be wrecked by a railgun or iron sand swarm. Smoke is interesting but lacks power in comparison to his other powers. If Delsin himself relies on a single power, Misaka with her superior intelligence and mind will eventually develop a strategy against it. Based on simple movement patterns of ITEM(Mugino and Co.) she could tell that her movements was being tracked and while simitaneously avoiding their onslaughts of preset bombs and laser blasts, she was attempting to formulate a plan. If anything, Misaka is the one with the instincts. She is always put in a situation and always finds a way to react to said situation. Physical superhuman that is immensely superior in every single way? She watches her movement patterns and counters accordingly. Esper with access to over 10,000 abilities? Cautiously fights her, till she eventually knocks her unconscious via sneak attack. Her Clone with the intention to incapacitate accelerator instead of wasting her time blasting him which she knows won't work, she attempts to rob him of his oxygen.
1. I understand and I was only making a simple point also it wouldn`t really matter even if you showed scans the points made later by me were touched upon with further detail.
2. That`s a good point but remember this proves my point about Misaka having limits in regards to what she can handle and the reason why he headed after the Brooke the way did is correlation to losing his brother also remember Evil Delsin ALSO comes into playing during this match.
3. Exactly. She knew what to expect and it`s her respective abilities that allow her to gain the advantage even when in a situation such as this.
4. Because it shows that she isn`t what you`re portraying her to be she can still be tricked and outwitted which Delsin could easily do with his abilities although it would take time and it relates to Delsin and everything else because it`s something that may prove to be a factor during their battle.
5. You bring up amazing points Deathhero, really good! But I have to once again correct and help clarify them. While this is definitely something Misaka could exploit or use as a viable strategy but there`s a problem with the whole thing the reason being is because it’s a big IF. That`s if Misaka finds a way to understand how a Conduit`s powers work she may assume that Delsin some kind of weird type of Esper and assume what his rank is based on his abilities but the thing is I don`t think Delsin especially Evil Delsin would give her the opportunity too even against familiar Espers that were specific for their type examples being when she fought Brenda and Mugino she still needed time to formulate her strategy and it took a bit of awhile for her to see through their abilities and formulate a counter strategy another thing is even IF Misaka figures out that Delsin drawing from something that he can interchange between abilities it doesn`t mean she would be able to stop that considering Delsin has many ways which goes back to his versatility in which he avoid this problem. His Laser Focus could slow time that is surrounding him and Misaka thus preventing Misaka from exploiting this weakness and he also has Stasis Bubbles which could throw Misaka off guard but let`s just say that you`re right and Delsin is reduced to not only Smoke and Concrete. Would it make things harder for him for sure will it make it impossible for him to win absolutely not, even with Misaka`s gifted mind she still takes time with her strategies as I mentioned earlier and I don`t expect her to figure out right away also shouldn`t this go both ways considering Delsin would have Misaka figured out by that time too? He could look into her abilities as being a sort of Conduit that utilizes electricity and can also has magnetic abilities in inclusion with that and he would go on the defensive so in which he can STILL enter vents also he can phase as well to a degree so this could allow him to turn his defensive advantages up a notch or allow his main offense to be his defense especially since he can still utilize Orbital Drop or Karma Bomb to kill Misaka and the damage radius that is caused by these attacks are devastating by this time during the fight Misaka would probably be weakened or a bit frustrated with Delsin`s unconventional abilities and the more you underestimate Concrete the more you give me reason to prove why it’s the underdog in regards to Delsin`s powerset. With Concrete not only is the Boulder Dash a vital move that could crush Misaka but also with Strength of Stone and Strength of Granite Delsin takes less damage which would include Misaka`s Railgun also I don`t think Delsin would be that silly or brash to attack Misaka head on after losing his abilities (which I doubt would happen in the long run) especially after witnessing her Railgun ability previously in their fight. That is again because she is built uniquely in a way in which she can overcome those specific threats being a esper of her magnitude she can take them down eventually also its under certain conditions is not immediate its steady and gradual she even admits herself throughout some of those encounters that she`s surprised that she can even last that long and Delsin`s fights with Eugene who had the ability of video in which he was fighting someone he didn`t have much knowledge about he was able to maneuver around his dimension and in his fight with Fetch he was able to use her own power against her despite the fact that she was more trained, developed and insightful than he was also this goes back to Brooke Augustine and Delsin was able to beat her with her own ability he had some small help from Eugene but that`s it. Brooke was even amazed when Delsin managed to beat her with her own ability also what does this all amount to? None of those people you mentioned can slow down time create Stasis Bubbles; create great levelling impact AOE attacks and etc.
Misaka 10032 created a area of Ozone
BTW this could be a viable strategy to use as a last resort.
It could but it won`t considering Accelerator despite being affected could still operate and keep Misaka on the defensive also if this begins to bug Delsin and he notices something is wrong with the air (which he will) he could always use Laser Focus and then capture Misaka with a Stasis Bubble and incinerate her preventing her from doing any further damage.
Your attempts to lowball never cease to amaze me.
Actually you lowballed more than I did throughout this entire debate. Concrete and Delsin`s instincts only being two examples, I simply just responded and corrected to what needed to be addressed in your arguments according to what you presented.
1.What is your definition of the word tank? Because remember, you were the one who said there is a certain understanding in gameplay mechanics to be taken into consideration.( Also he hasn't tanked any of what you mentioned in a cutscene last i recall....... but when i brought this up you try to defend this by saying how certain things happen that don't happen in cutscenes and vice versa. So you are contradicting yourself immensely.) Also Lava created in a VIRTUAL WORLD. I find it hard to take that seriously. Energy Beams? Lol ok. How much force and power do these energy beams have? Explosions? Lol ok. How powerful and how big are they? bullets? I am not going to ask the same question because we both know the answer. Because i guarantee you that misaka's lightning has far more force then all those you have listed. And you still haven't told me how he is "tanking" a railgun. Also as for Laser Focus, what do you mean slow down time? You mean everything? Because if that's the case i would call BS. Because he hasn't "slowed down time" against his other opponents........ And that's no different from Precision. I don't see why its so impressive. It doesn't increase his combat speed or anything. Plus Neon isn't all that fast either. IF she can dispatch superhumans that can move faster than sound.(Trust me Brunhild can go faster than simply Mach 1. ) Why would Delsin provide any difficulty?
The definition of the word tank is simply the definition of the word tank it`s simply to soak damage and this was shown with the instance dealing with Fetch after falling out a building and her and Delsin`s healing abilities work the same way. Also that`s not gameplay mechanics do you know what gameplay mechanics really are? Their functions put into place by the developers to help the balance the game for the player everything I mentioned Delsin did tank or bounce back from one way or the other and also my points further strengthened by Fetch`s showing in a CUTSCENE so I did not contradict anything also this is like saying Delsin can blow up a car if he did not show it in a cutscene also it’s pretty clear that his powers are more than capable of that level of destruction. Actually lava in a virtually fully realized dimension it`s not a simple virtual world its sorta like the Matrix whatever happened to Delsin that dimension applied to him in the real world he physically entered into that plane and I guess that means that Eugene`s video power shouldn`t be causing the destruction that it was causing in regards and in relation to the story he was using his video demons for certain tasks in the real world. They pack a lot of heat, Fetch in early days before meeting Delsin and during the time she was looking for her brother Trent was capable of destroying vehicles and large objects so Delsin being able to endure through it says a lot also he fought more experienced and developed Fetch. The explosions are massive the radius is long reaching and out reaching explosions that result from vehicles is just one example and in terms of bullets I agree but there`s a question that needs to be asked what about Misaka`s durability and healing feats? Why bash Delsin when Misaka doesn`t even compare? Misaka`s reflexes and intuition will only keep her afloat for so long eventually in due time she will be overwhelmed and overrun by Delsin`s raw versatility and based on what you shown the only ability that would be able to line up with your statement is Railgun other than that you are incorrect. Also Delsin has many ways in which he could avoid the Railgun his Laser Focus is already a massive issue and then if you were to account for him being able to fly his mobility is another massive issue so Misaka would need more than just luck in the hope of hitting him. AND HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT?? That`s a big assumption, you would have to prove that in order to discredit it by what I demonstrated its actual fact that he does use this ability even Fetch`s instance lines up really well with what I mean so that means that it will be something that is critical when used against Misaka and that`s the point it won`t only work in that regards but with his ranged abilities implemented smoothly into the course of combat it only be easier for him to use Stasis Bubble or Subdue. And it doesn`t have to considering it slows down enemies also it leaves them vulnerable also Delsin`s abilities make up for that the same way in which you say that Misaka`s reaction time (which is more so her sensory abilities) make up for her durability and healing disadvantages. Neon actually is fast when timed right it would work well with Laser Focus and Delsin doesn`t need to use basic abilities he can easily just create distance, distract Misaka with a basic ability THEN use a more interesting one like Stasis Bubble and etc. Delsin can integrate combos easier than Misaka can think herself out of a situation and speed is irrelevant in the regards of the opponents she`s faced considering this doesn`t automatically allow her advantages over that of someone like Delsin and she`s fought and beaten ESPERS not Conduits there`s an important difference.
2.Dangerously Focused concrete? Elaborate because it simply looks like soldiers chucking rocks at high speed more than "dangerously focused" concrete.(along with the fact that Delsin uses Concrete sharpnel against soldiers and they survive) Even then, i think ironsand which can cut through Russian tanks like butter and rip through steel with ease and slash through a monster who was bullet proof and can shrug off grenade launchers(Huh. He sounds more durable than Delsin, could it be? i wonder how iron sand would affect delsin?) Especially considering bullets can and will threaten his life.) Also there is one thing you have to understand, i think i brought this up in our previous debates. Piercing and cutting durability is different from blunt force durability. Even then, considering how those concrete rocks could just barely do a better JOB at destroying walls than bullets could, i am sincerely not impressed. Plus you aren't explaining Delsin's durability all too well, same goes for his healing factor. Can he tank so much because of his healing factor? Or can he tank so much because its his natural durability?
It actually is if you look closely the soldiers are utilizing and methodizing concrete in a way in which it’s focused as a piercing object coming at high speeds and the soldiers are very defensive as well. He uses them against much weaker variations the one he fought when he was approaching is much different considering its stronger and the weaker variations only sustain so much injury also again I think you overlooked a lot of my earlier points. Tanking explosions and so forth is great but like I said the AIM Burst had a vulnerability due to Misaka focusing piercing damage obviously if the grenades aren`t working utilizing iron sand which can be sharpened and modified by Misaka will do better considering its designed specifically to bypass its durability also it doesn`t matter considering Delsin can heal and Fetch tanked multiple bombs going off and fell from a large building also she hit the ground and it`s not like Delsin can`t heal if it does manage to bother him that much. Bullets to a degree threaten his life and putting tanking or healing aside Delsin also has ways in which he can avoid Misaka`s iron sand also whose can Misaka tank and survive a Cinder Blast? I think not. Which is what I brought up with the AIM Burst and that`s not the main point anyway which means you don`t understand my points at all as you are overlooking them. My point is that concrete is formidable and dangerous if used correctly it’s close to Misaka`s iron sand and its capable of breaking through heavily armored vehicles also concrete is more versatile to a degree in the way in which its deployed or employed. I actually did explain this as shown with the instance dealing with Fetch she did not only tank the explosion but her healing factor allowed her to sustain the damage same with Delsin but if its overcome he would have to resort to absorbing from a certain source to heal it`s not hard to understand your failing to understand the nature in the way in which his ability functions he can tank a lot because he is durable enough to tank that level of force but if exceeded enough his durability can be overcome and thus he would have to take a break and wait a few seconds for his healing factor to take effect. I think your hanging onto the scene that deals with Delsin being shot and then healing you have to remember that`s when HE FIRST discovers that he has a healing ability in the first place and that was more on reflex than anything.
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9:20 - 10:10 - Fetch survives being forced out a building by multiple bombs going off and she hits ground level but gets right back up also after instantly absorbing a Neon energy source she`s back to normal health this would of killed Misaka. This goes back to my point about Delsin being able to afford himself damage while Misaka can only hope to react and dodge which only lasts so long but in the long run it won`t mean much as I have already proven.
3. Concrete armor, yadda yadda yadda. How durable is it? Show me a cutscene of the strongest impact it has taken. Oh wait, you can't.
Lol. Now this is lowballing, downplaying and overlooking all at once also there`s no need considering the fight I posted between Brooke and Delsin fully emphasizes what you are looking for as it is during the time that he first acquires his Concrete powers that what`s indicated in the game conditions applies to the story without the interruption stemming from the game mechanics if he can take someone as powerful as Brooke then we should know what his concrete armor is capable of in enduring through also I`ve played the game and it protects as well as minimizes damage against heavy artillery, explosions and etc. No matter what way you slice it, it will do what it`s supposed to do.
https://youtu.be/qnbvj5ATeo0
4. Leave her OPEN? Hilarious! you say this as if Delsin is using all his powers at once.
No I say this because Delsin has no problems in switching between abilities and considering he`s not an Esper, I wouldn`t be surprised if this was the case in regards to leaving Misaka open for an attack.
Considering how long it has taken me to make this post, i have taken the time to think about each ability individually.
Cool.
1.Concrete. Its slow but durable. And believe it or not, the ability can be turned against him in multiple ways. Ironsand can be produced via concrete, or rock and minerals and what not. What is Delsin going to be made of when he charges at misaka with a shoulder dash? Also you still haven't provided any durability feats for concrete that will lead me to believe that he is tanking getting slashed to bits by iron sand or tanking a railgun(whether it would be via her usual arcade coins, a fire hydrant, or a freaking CAR.)
It`s durable, versatile and it provides good defense which you are forgetting. I guess that`s a possibility but it`s only a possibility not a certainty how do you know Misaka could directly affect his powers in that fashion? Maybe the concrete surrounding him but not Delsin himself and not really because concrete emphasizes a lot on defense also I have and I even displayed a highlight video that goes in-depth with the ability. He doesn`t have to necessarily tank it upfront although it reduces damage and Delsin also on top of that has a healing ability to his name and Railgun again takes a while to pull off accurately and that`s nothing lol. Delsin`s Boulder ability allows him to smash through cars, trucks and etc. what is that going to do to Delsin in all honesty? Delsin will do something to Misaka once he hits her dead on with a Boulder Dash and she doesn`t have any proper or substantial durability feats in the first place to help validate her defense against such methods.
2.Neon is faster aerially this may be true but even then its arguable. I didn't want to say anything because it may affect the rest of the debate somehow but you wanna know the secret behind Misaka's movement speed? Magnetisim.(its a theory more than actual fact but it would explain a lot.) I would show you several instants in order to emphasize on this but instead i will show you something from Magi the labyrinth of magic.
It`s not only fast but it`s also very useful in regards to combat and that`s a fair point. I`m a fan of Magi but I don`t see how that series really pertains to Misaka however I`m interested in seeing what you mean by this considering Delsin`s abilities follow a certain method and aren`t just typical abilities their unique in their own right also to add to the Neon point, Delsin can also exploit the ability to recover from Misaka`s attacks with his absorption ability as many Neon signs are present within a city.
This is how Misaka fights according to others and herself "three dimensionally" you may be thinking "how does this help her?" Here is another feat of her jumping across the city.
It’s a decent comparison but things in Magi are different and a little less conventional as well as explainable than what occurs in Misaka`s universe.
If she can use this ability to increase the power of her jumps this benefits her. If Delsin is "aerially" moving past her, she could just jump fast enough to grab him or shoot a blast at him. She could easily get to heights similar to delsin, or adjust to the height delsin is at.
I don`t see how Magi correlates in anyway really but this will be a helpful ability for Misaka but I don`t think it would be easy considering she still has no answer for Delsing using Light Speed and circulating through vents also Delsin can still maneuver better than she can which relates back to his initial aerial advantage.
3. As for Video, the science you are providing for Video is absolutely ridiculous. By that logic, he shouldn't even be touchable(he should be intangible even so sneaking behind her would be pointless when he can just walk through her or something.) or visible(in general) if he is using this ability and his powers shouldn't do what they do. Also its clear that despite video being active, he is somewhat still physical so he is still an object. If Misaka "sees" something via radar sense moving towards her, i don't see why she wouldn't detect him coming at him. And considering how much you were riding on that invisibility power he cannot use any other abilities using video so don't act as if he has so many OPTIONS while he is invisible. Because it seems that his power is reduced when using this.
No you’re just failing to understand what I mean. It`s not like Danny Phantom per say it`s more like him being able to phase and avoid damage also by sneaking around her that could and would be done by invisibility and I didn`t say he wasn`t an object or couldn`t be damaged I was referring more so to his specific attributes when attributing certain methods such as his dash and phasing abilities also with video he can also summons demons or angels to aid him in the process of using all his other powers. That`s not true if you read my arguments you would know that I specifically said that when he is invisible he can summon angels and demons mostly three to aid him against Misaka WHILE he is invisible which is why I was putting emphasis on the fact that they can work in the air as well as they can work up close when fighting their target. And Misaka spotting him is 50/50 considering it still requires for her to rely on some form of one of her senses and I doubt she would notice him once angels and demons are attacking her also being digitized is a very unique principle.
Unique Sensory Perception of Electric-type Espers: As an electromaster, Mikoto is of course able to sense electric, magnetic, and electromagnetic phenomena. She is, however, able to follow the electric and magnetic field lines using her eyes, something that normal electromasters are unable to do with their limited power.She takes this ability one step further by analyzing the reflections of the electromagnetic waves she generates, giving her no blind spots.
Notice the line that says by using her eyes in correspondence with a specific sense that is required for this ability to operate it has its limits and it can be stopped. Misaka still has to stay in focus and keep in touch as well as stay in depth with the environment surrounding her. Also I already addressed this in it`s entirety from point to point I have been addressing this.
Also that`s the least thing you should be worrying about considering a Neon Singularity could do the trick. Your probably thinking this only Fetch`s ability well in a way you would be both right and wrong. Considering, Delsin when he gains a Conduit`s power he also attains all of their memories this would include the Neon Singularity that Fetch mastered years prior (and First Light came as a DLC after the release of Infamous Second Son). I`m pretty sure Delsin could perform this while going all out and since all upgrades are accounted for then it shouldn`t be a problem this alone is more dangerous than Misaka`s Railgun ability.
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https://youtu.be/3IcjB7xdAQ0
4.If you know smoke is barely a threat in comparison to the other ones then i have no need to continue.
I already addressed this as well. Smoke may not be as effective but it will prove sufficient if applied correctly with the right mind and at the right time.
You say as if its so hard for misaka to aim with her railgun........
I didn`t say Misaka couldn`t aim only that she will have trouble aiming against someone like Delsin.
Watched the video and saw the instance in which the Railgun was fired oh boy…. The way you are making it sound is as if Misaka is on par with Deadshot, Bullseye, Vash the Stampede and etc. All she did was use her jumping ability and then utilized a coin to bring down a helicopter which isn`t so hard considering her target is in a straight path and is moving slowly also there was a similar instance in which Fetch had to take down a helicopter it took basic blasts to take down helicopter as opposed to a specialized technique like a Railgun.
If she can do this. Please i beg of you. I am pretty much on my knees at this point. Begging you how in the world can you tell me that delsin simply flying around would prevent her from using the railgun? And what do you mean weak point? While he is BUSY trying to do that, the railgun will already being fired at him........
Because he`s not in a STRAIGHT OR DEFINED PATH… Everything you have shown me in regards to the Railgun followed a similar pattern in regards to how Misaka had to utilize the technique it`s not instance and Misaka clearly has to focus also its timed a certain way Delsin isn`t going to be waiting around for it to him he`s constantly going to be moving and maneuvering around objects also that instance alone strengthens my points, Delsin should be able to tank a Railgun it will hurt and it force him to go on the defensive but he can do it also he can heal and absorb to quicken the process.
I am sorry when i first saw this, i had to get out of my chair. Drink some water. Take that in, and then i started laughing at how ridiculous this is. If he even comes close to her with anything metal misaka would simply turn that against him. And lets assume that by some magical miracle Delsin gets that close to misaka like that and manged to even wrap her around like that. He is getting zapped with a million volts. Heck not even, he will get kebab'd with iron sand.....
Misaka won`t be laughing though lol. I was making a point in regards to one of the things Delsin could do I was merely pointing out the fact that Evil Delsin is a different monster and matter altogether when compared with Good Delsin also I don`t think it would have to be particularly metal also Delsin could use a Neon or Video chain/whip so…..Delsin could easily do so because of Stasis Bubbles, Subdue and etc. Are you forgetting those? That`s IF Misaka could manage to do that while in a Stasis Bubble which actually impossible.
Batman is more agile than quicksilver. But quicksilver is far faster than he is.........."Delsin has fought intelligent and experience opponents." Aside from Augustine who wasn't that impressive in terms of direct combat considering the extent she takes her powers, who did he really fought that was "intelligent" and experienced? We can do CAVS on Augustine vs Misaka or against any of the opponents she fought if you want. I don't mind. It will end with them being on top. You clearly underestimate the to aru verse. And you say intelligent but what exactly do you mean? Misaka can formulate several different approach methods in combat, and can approach a situation strategically, or scientifically. You cannot say the same for Delsin considering the player is operating Delsin in a fight. And AGAIN and again you say her anger will cloud her judgement. But that's pretty much very unlikely which i have proven in my post. And she doesn't underestimate anyone. She gauges an opponent and based off what she sees she acts accordingly. So knows how to hold back, i am sure you know this. Even if by some miracle Misaka gets pissed or desperate that would simply encourage her to go all out, and she may overdo it in result. Also the whole playful and clever thing does not equate being a jerk or being extremely annoying like characters such as Sonic or Deadpool or Spiderman. And that personality doesn't really seem possible since you are using a composite delsin, a combination of both good and evil karma which makes absolutely no sense since Good karma has a certain level of power with certain abilities while Evil Karma is the same, a certain level of power, in some cases stronger. A composite Delsin simply conflicts his capabilities.
He is but it doesn`t mean he can perfectly react and what does this have to do with two very distinctly unique combatants such as Delsin and Misaka? False, Augustine and Fetch also Fetch is more in league and in line with Misaka she has a rich background in training and developing her powers also her mind is fairly militant. I think your failing to understand my point exactly. Augustine`s wisdom and combat smarts is great but it`s the fact that Delsin beat her with her own power even though she had FAR more training, expertise and background in the ability than he did speaks volumes, I wouldn`t mind doing that although is there a point to that? Based on what you showed me throughout this entire debate coupled with the fact that I am pretty knowledgeable on Misaka`s character as I am a huge fan of A Certain Magical Index I can say that Augustine would soundly take down Misaka eventually after a drawn out fight. Misaka to me is more like Fetch only more impressive in more ways but their close and they share a similarity that make them complimentary which is why they are fairly comparable to one another. Fetch would be Misaka in the Infamous universe in regards to her connection with Delsin although Fetch and Misaka are obviously different as both their universes drastically differ when it comes to fundamental themes. That again is only an assumption and nothing that is proven as of yet I could say the same thing and it would amount to nothing unless if I were to accumulate information that was to say otherwise. I think your underestimating the Infamous universe when did I in this entire debate underestimate or overlook the A Certain Magical Index universe? I can point out to probably 4 instances in which you repetitively downplay the Infamous universe and its respective characters what makes it more evident is the fact this is a video game vs anime/manga character so things are going to appear a certain way and turn out a certain way much differently in the comparison of the two. Augustine was a military strategist and served the army for years also she developed her powers during those years and harnessed them also she trained others to harness their powers it may not seem as impressive as how anime does it but it`s impressive nonetheless and it doesn`t stand short. Augustine could weak points in Conduits and she even knew Delsin`s progression throughout the entire story and this is what I mean. Just because the player is playing as Delsin doesn`t mean Delsin isn`t still the main character of the Infamous Second Son experience I guess I can say all the other debates you had dealing with video game characters should be mentioned especially Sora in regards to if he actually beat Sephiroth or not (in which he didn`t he only stalemated him). You actually haven`t proven it within your post and I went over this as well another thing is anger would cloud her judgement which is something that could happen during the fight and she doesn`t have to underestimate she could overlook one of Delsin`s abilities or think too deeply about them especially since he`s not an Esper this could further prove to being a problem that is presented in the later courses of the fight. That isn`t true because even characters like Flash, Spiderman, Dante, Sonic, Generator Rex and example still get to their opponents despite the level of seriousness that is involved in the inclusion of the stakes being at their highest also why not? You haven`t played the game how do you know that he still isn`t capable of the same traits as his counterpart only tailored to his unique attributes? Delsin still is capable of cracking a joke and taking it further while evil also not really while Evil Karma is stronger in a sense it`s not by an insane difference its more by a decent different and the abilities themselves are more than identical also when by composite I mean that both account and are applicable to Delsin and I don`t see how that conflicts with abilities or capabilities when their just two separate but very similar sets of powers and abilities it`s not like it`s not non canon.
Except that it can be done pretty damn quickly. She doesn't need to flip the coin to fire it. Its just a habit of hers. If she is in a fight where she has to use it in a certain situation, she would simply put the coin in position and fire it........ And about the whole Karma Bomb thing. Those are even worse than what you were trying to imply for misaka's railgun. Look how long it takes for Delsin to initiate those techs. You really think Misaka doesn't have the common sense to simply oh i don't know.......move? Misaka can simply take out a coin, point and shoot. You cannot and absolutely cannot say the same for delsin.
It can but not as quickly as you think and I really don`t see why Delsin can`t avoid it or even prevent it since Misaka might try to utilize again after her first attempt fails. I didn`t say she did I was only making a point. And that habit wouldn`t apply here by greater chance because? I`m aware but I don`t see why Delsin can`t avoid it especially since he can utilize vents to his advantage he has many ways in which he can decrease the probability of it hitting him also even if it does hit him there is the probability that it will only hit him to a certain degree so the impact and damage done wouldn`t be as critical. Not really because my point simply was that despite the Railgun being fast and flashy, and all Delsin still can rely on three massive abilities that he can interplay with other abilities during the fight and I know Misaka will try to dodge which is why I made the point that the way in which Delsin`s AOE attacks work is that they cover an insane radius and distance also the impact is amazing everything you have showed within this debate pales in comparison even the Railgun and even if Misaka does manage to dodge it doesn`t she can keep dodging forever considering when these types of abilities are initiated especially Orbital Drop other factors come into play… Such as cars, trucks and etc. being tossed around imagine if one landed on Misaka or forced her back she wouldn`t be able to rebound from that like Delsin would which is why durability and healing is in fact important you can avoid, dodge and react yes but those things are done under certain measures and well I can say a lot more for Delsin considering he doesn`t need the following:
· Perfect timing
· Aligned target that is set on a straight path
· And his Orbital Drop, Hellfire Swarm, and Radiant Sweep are ultimately more versatile so there`s much more to explore and exploit with them
· While Delsin could learn from Misaka`s Railgun and understand that it`s dangerous Misaka won`t know what to expect from Delsin considering he has three extremely powerful maneuvers.
Reaction time and reflexes. Hahahahahaha. No. You have not shown a SINGLE feat regarding reaction time and speed, all you showed me was delsin's "instincts" which was more common sense than quick thinking.
I actually have, Delsin fighting Fetch is just one example and how is using Hellfire Swarm commonsense more so than quick thinking? That doesn`t make much sense considering the nature of the situation he was in and you forgot the part where he escaped safely from the event also characters who are slower than Misaka still got the best of her and their not as resourceful or as versatile as Delsin.
More assumptions of what? That she has higher reaction speed and speed in general? Which can be backed by so many feats that i can literally make an entire post dedicated to her speed? That she is more agile? That she doesn't heavily rely on the help of others to get out of jams against powerful opponents? COUGH COUGH Augustine COUGH Or the fact that she is far more intelligent in combat than pretty much a majority of the infamous cast? Or the fact that you think what Delsin does is strategy when its simply him going at a straight forward objective? Especially considering how delsin's "instincts" in battles and "strategies" are not really quantifiable considering the combat style we see players use cannot be assumed to be the combat style of Delsin? And who is the one making assumptions? I recall you "assuming" that misaka is immature enough to react in anger to simple mockeries. I recall you "assuming" that invisibility would work on someone who does not need to rely on sight. I recall you "assuming" that misaka's attacks aren't fast enough to hit their target when they clearly are because i don't recall Delsin being anywere near the speed of sound.
It is an assumption based on the idea that Misaka will simply blitz Delsin and the way you word it makes it seem that he can`t keep up it`s not even really sheer speed it`s just good reflexes + sensory Misaka can still be affected by certain attacks that she can`t react to and her movement is dependent on the environment around her as well. I don`t see how that has anything to do with Delsin vs Misaka also Delsin doesn`t receive help he just may receive an assist he does most of the work and he does most of the more dangerous stuff for story purposes certain characters like his brother and Eugene just assist him in a certain situation dealing tasks he doesn`t receive much help in boss fights also Misaka has more intel and understanding of Espers than Delsin does Conduits when he goes up against them plus he doesn`t need a sensory to avoid attacks he can endure them and go on the offensive. Now that is downplaying, again he didn`t receive much help against Augustine he still did all the work it`s not like Sora in Kingdom Hearts, Delsin still learns to adapt to the situation himself also I can say that Misaka has a lot of intel on her opponents and he receives help from her clones during certain parts of the story even during the end fight of A Certain Magical Index she needed help against a weaker opponent that I wouldn`t compare Augustine only roughly but not really and I can go on and on. Also that doesn`t take away from Delsin really because the point was that he at the end of it ended up using Brooke`s own power against her and in his other fights he took on Fetch, Eugene and Brooke (for the first time) without any help. Fetch is actually quite comparable to Misaka the only difference is the way the characters work one being an Infamous character and the other being A Certain Magical Index character their vastly distant when it comes to characterization and sophistication but in a way they complement each other. Fetch has great experience and knowledge when it comes to understanding her powers, she`s skilled, she`s creative and she has a lot of depth but that didn`t stop Delsin from taking her down eventually. When did I emphasize strategy? Yes instincts is true because there are cutscenes and cinematics that support this also you forget that I ALSO mentioned the fact that he is creative, witty and resourceful those are qualities that make up for his lack of all-around intelligence and again he`s beaten people who were more intelligent also more dangerous than Misaka and when did Misaka ever fight someone as versatile and unique as Delsin? Since her fights revolve around Esper types that her abilities naturally have an answer to. I didn`t mean it that way I simply said overtime Delsin could exploit also it wasn`t just simple mockeries it`s a play on Delsin`s character in combat and I said when Misaka get a bit unfocused or frustrated because he just doesn`t know what she is up against and she doesn`t know that Conduits are different than Espers then she might crack just a little I don`t see how that`s an assumption it`s accurate based on everything you presented I even admitted that it won`t be easy and that it may take some time. How is that an assumption when there is evidence? I said invisibility would work well against Misaka despite her radar abilities considering they work in a specific way and they do rely on her senses to tell her where it target is the target still has to be actively visibly in order for to get an idea of what to do and she does need focus also you forget that Delsin ALSO summons THREE demons or angels to attack his opponents while invisible so that is why I put so much emphasis on invisibility because there are many variables that go against Misaka as factors. I never said that the Railgun wasn`t fast or that Misaka doesn`t have great aim or that it wasn`t the speed of sound the problem is the way the ability works. There are conditions in which the ability can work to Misaka`a advantages IN EVERY SHOWING that you provided her target was on a straight path and was easy to spot also her target didn`t have the speed to react which is why she can time it so well with Delsin he`s going to be moving around constantly, flying, going through vents so like I said before there`s no guarantee that it would work in the way that you are implying it would considering Misaka`s use of the ability follows a very obvious patters. You made many assumptions and many more than I did (if I did in any way) you assumed that Laser Focus isn`t canon (which doesn`t make any sense considering it`s a key ability and the Fetch instance reiterates that point), you assume that Delsin`s healing and jumping is pure game mechanics based on previous Infamous games which isn`t a fair judgement considering mechanics can vary from game to game especially since both these Conduits are very different and the fact that in Delsin`s story his jumping ability was mentioned in regards to him healing from it you focused on too much technicalities that didn`t matter or weren`t even existent. You assumed that concrete wouldn`t really be a factor when Delsin could use it to protect himself from damage and it has great destructive power and you assumed his enemies don`t compare when they clearly do only you won`t be getting epic, flashy, fancy and amazing cutscenes that anime provides.
I told you this once and i'll say it AGAIN. Misaka's durability is highly irrelevant. Delsin will be forced to be on the defensive while Misaka can easily be on the defensive whenever she wants far faster and more efficiently than Delsin can. Delsin also isn't going to have the chance to do anything, because of his slower reaction and movement, which i've kept saying. Delsin is going to be on the defensive from the beginning, if he can survive at all. Mikoto can also use multiple attacks at once, shocking Brunhild while at the same time throwing a huge concrete block at her. Hell, she can even control the freaking road. Her powers have been countered by lets see...... a guy with insane precognition who literally can negate any power there is whether it would be a railgun or a magical seal on someone's curse or some effect of a semi-reality warper, a guy who can control all vectors and was beat by the guy i mentioned earlier who can negate all powers, while everyone else has failed against him even entire armies, a woman who has a similar ability to hers structurally, and a woman who temporarily had access to 10,000 esper powers at her disposal. I can think of a few others but like the ones i mentioned they had abilities that allowed them to hard counter misaka........ Oh would you look at that, another baseless assumption........ assuming that her ability is so hard to counter because its been countered by others. Despite the fact that these fighters had significant advantages in their own ways.......
And again I must point out the fact that it is not irrelevant. The funny thing is many of your showings for Misaka support my argument considering it goes back to what I was saying in the beginning also that`s again a massive assumption on your part. He can easily due to the nature of his powers be on the offensive and defensive also it`s her radar ability that allows her certain movement she can only dodge for so long and she can only dodge or react to certain attacks she has to manipulate the situation in her favor to outlast her enemies. Delsin`s mobility and destructive force makes up for that Misaka won`t have any real surfaces to utilize or metals to protect her from Delsin`s attacks she would have to formulate a plan first and that`s hard when up against Radiant Sweep and Hellfire Swarm maybe Orbital Drop is fine but Delsin could always use Subdue or Stasis Bubbles to immobilize her which he has no answer for she`s used to dodging but not being contained completely. Again this is assumption considering Misaka doesn`t possess typical speed and she doesn`t just start around blitzing and zipping throughout combat she analyzed the situation first but since Delsin is a Conduit and not an Esper that could easily be a problem because she`s not going to know how to react exactly or understand where he fits with all his kind of abilities. Also Laser Focus says no to that he can just slow her down and then bombard her with energy beams, sulfur bombs, cinder blasts and more. Lol what is that going to do to Delsin? Who could utilize vents, fly and then counter with energy blasts and switch between powers? That`s a neat trick but Delsin doesn`t the road he can take flight, utilize a vent which Misaka will have a problem with in regards to sensing and reading considering the rate in which Delsin travels and the way he channels himself when in that state and also could easily turn the tables if that were to be the case with a Hellfire Swarm which Misaka won`t be able to react to despite her sensory and speed because of the damage radius and the way the in which the attack is focused even if she did manage to dodge she could still end up taking a lot of damage considering that`s happened before. What does that to do with a Conduit like Delsin? All those characters you mentioned that Misaka faced and encountered were all Espers which has no correlation to a Conduit and Delsin will not only counter her attacks but he can comfortably maneuver around them considering he`s great when it comes to a city environment and again this is fact how? Your entire argumentation is augmented by assumption as I pointed out and you downplaying Infamous and the ways in which Delsin`s powers operate especially since all the instances you shown with Misaka her own opponents confirm and clarify that her being a certain level Esper enables her to counter them easily due to the nature of her powers being an electric master and she`s usually in an environment where there`s metal around to manipulate in a city wide environment she can find ways to manipulate metal but it won`t be that easy and Delsin`s destructive abilities will it make it even harder also considering when in vents she can`t even touch him and she probably won`t know where he has gone to so I doubt speed is such a big factor in the way that you are stating it to be. And the fact that you miss the significant point of Misaka herself having her own form of counters although you have a point it`s nothing new in regards to what I addressed already this just furthers my point actually about her facing off against Delsin who is a Conduit as opposed to an Esper and his abilities work very differently and since Misaka won`t know that it could prove to her downfall in the long term.
2. It won't though. That's the thing. And even if it fails her once she can fire several. Hell she once mentions how she can do a railgun SHOTGUN of all things. Jesus Christ. And what part of 3 times the speed of sound all the way to the speed of light don't you understand? Delsin will not, and cannot react to a railgun. Tank and heal from them? What part of one shot don't you understand?
And you think Delsin is going to be standing around conveniently like Misaka`s enemies all have? He`s going to be moving throughout vents which are highly favorable in his favor considering their in a city environment and Misaka won`t have any answers for it she wouldn`t expect it from an Esper and while that is cool in what way will it be different? How effective would that be and how many times has she done this really to be exact? No, I fully understand but I fail to understand your point also the lightspeed thing isn`t accurate and you yourself agreed to this so makes no sense that you even bring it up considering Misaka aim-dodges as well which a lot of street levelers do against light speed attacks and she has a radar sense to top it all off. What part of Misaka needs to firstunderstand her target`s position don`t you understand what part of it`s launched at the speed of sound when it builds up from a certain point don`t you understand? It`s not immediate like I keep saying and it`s not perfect Misaka can STILL MISS believe it or not due to the nature in which she uses a Railgun and Delsin could be atop of a building rooftop by the time that she decides to use one considering he`s far more unpredictable and his abilities help determine that.
And AGAIN blunt force durability is different from piercing and cutting durability. And you haven't shown me any durability feats that proves he will survive. Oh snap, he survived grenades, and bullets and energy beams which barely have any force. If a small coin moving at several times the speed of sound doesn't somehow slash him in half than i am sure a fire hydrant or maybe a car moving at similar speeds will kill him. Here is the thing you don't understand about your own character. He cannot take too much damage at once otherwise he would die. Why do you think he retreats when taking heavy fire? For the heck of it? No. He does it because if he doesn't, let me spell it out. HE. WILL. DIE. If his healing factor was as good as you say it is, he would literally be fighting like deadpool or ban from seven deadly sins, he would be walking and taking everything thrown at him. But that's not the case. Its limited in its own ways. He isn't immortal. You have not shown Delsin regenerating from something as powerful as her railgun. Let alone tank it.
I don`t know why your telling me this when I was the first to explain and elaborate to you during the beginning of this debate up to this point also Delsin has tanked both blunt force and piercing trauma. And I have shown plenty you just take the opportunity to downgrade Delsin due to him being a video game character by using the excuse of gameplay mechanics when the story itself supports my argument and Fetch is a testament to this as well. How can you say that they barely have any force especially these same projectiles and objects destroy vehicles easily also their specifically designed for Conduits like Delsin so by you trying to take away from the feat you actually add to my case and take nothing away from Delsin. Also your overlooking my arguments and misguiding yours, I didn`t say Delsin can tank the Railgun easily only that his super healing + damage soak + absorption recovery + Concrete Armor will nullify the chances of Misaka`s Railgun one shotting which has an equal chance of failing in regards to actually missing its target since you overrate the rate of speed in which it is fired vs in which it travels. Fire hydrants and cars can be avoided much easier also the dynamic is different and he tanks explosions that result from cars although it`s irrelevant anyway. Here`s the thing you fail to understand about my character he can take damage to a certain extent which I myself confirmed multiples throughout this debate BUT he can AlSO heal from the damage after taking moments of rest AND he can absorb energies to heal according to the ability he has attributed and you fail to address this properly. Now I can say this in reverse here`s the thing you fail to understand about your own character Misaka…. While her sensory ability is great it has its limits just like many characters similar to her throughout all of fiction and different media/mediums (and I know a lot of characters it`s not even funny), or just characters with precognition they have to understand their surroundings first and be able to react based on that as Misaka`s is an electromagnetically wired ability it really does require for her to understand her environment also she admitted herself that she can`t react to all attacks which is why she uses what`s around her and she can still take damage REGARDLESS of speed which will factor in quite heavily during this match. Delsin on the other hand may seem to lack speed but he completely makes up for that in quick wits, maneuverability and mobility also since he`s versatile has more than one way in acting unpredictable so Misaka shouldn`t be ahead of him in the regards that she utterly outclasses as you lead yourself to believe. Lol, I never denied or said that he doesn`t need a certain amount of time to recover but my point is that he can tank these things and bounce back from them relatively easy also during the times in which these things occur he`s facing more than one enemy he faces more enemies on a daily basis than Misaka does and DUP units are equipped to take down Conduits why do you think Brooke brought the program and organization to the forefront in the first place? A Conduit who is running a program to take in other Conduits? Hmm. The thing with Ban from Nanatsu no Taizai is that his healing factor is FAR superior to Delsin`s and he can afford to take on certain attacks his build is much different and healing factors are unique to the one that they are healing you can`t compare Ban to Delsin because the way in which they recover from damage is different AND I NEVER DENIED THAT DELSIN NEEDS TO RETREAT I DEFINED THAT FACT. Now Deadpool isn`t the best example because he can still be hurt and threatened it`s just like Ban he`s immortal and his healing factor is several times more advanced so of course his durability factored in with all that based on his build allows him to have intense encounters with characters like the Hulk also blowing him up and slicing him to bits wouldn`t kill him either it would kill Delsin you see my point? Also I totally liked how you ignored the fact that Delsin could recover in no time by absorbing energy from a source this is easily referable thanks to what was shown with Fetch AND with his set of abilities the chances of him actually taking a lot of damage against Misaka isn`t that high considering Misaka being an Esper and him being a Conduit will factor in ways in which their abilities meet and match. I don`t have to because every time I mention the Railgun in with inclusion to Delsin`s healing ability I always bring up his other aspects such as recovering and dividing which goes back to his concrete armor being able to break down damage for Delsin`s benefit also even if you were right it`s not like Misaka is going to have the chance to him perfectly from what I presented for my character it’s easily understandable and plausible that Delsin will indeed survive a Railgun that fails to hit him square or dead on.
You are really underestimating the powerful verse that is that Mikoto lives in.
Actually it`s more of the fact that your underestimating the Infamous universe considering I played all games and mostly importantly I played Second Son which you haven`t, and I`m a fan of A Magical Certain Index along with everything else associated with it. I`m familiar with the characters and their respective feats even if you were right to a degree wouldn`t, I also be equally correct as well? Considering I could say the same in regards to the fact that you’re underestimating Delsin in relation to also underestimating the universe that he comes from but unlike your statement and mine I have more examples to draw from to make it true. You want to really see whose underestimating who? Because I think it would be astronomically easier for me to prove that.
Watch this AMV.
Nothing that I don`t already know.
Now you are underestimating the Infamous universe that`s a fact:
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3.
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2.
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1.
And with the countdown reaching zero....
Delsin.....
OBLITERATE!
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Fair enough and I understand but it still doesn`t change the fact that Delsin indeed wins :)
1. This has been debunked besides the Espers she fought who had no way in countering her sensory ability to understand her blindspots although unlike Delsin who actually does have many more options.
2. Not true. Misaka is a good fighter who utilizes range but she`s not as unpredictable as Delsin and nothing in her arsenal except for her Railgun ability can really bring Delsin down for good.
3. Really now? Because a distinct aspect between the Esper and Conduit is that the Conduit has an array of powers and abilities while the Esper functions on the primary principle of electricity. And everything else I understand but you are missing some critical details. While Cole may have had a bigger skill-set, HE DID NOT have a bigger power-set. Delsin has more ways in which he can utilize and measure his abilities while Cole only used electric based abilities and ice powers also that will be a negative point for Misaka considering her electric abilities won`t have any basis in which they could counter Delsin`s unique traits. If it was Cole she may have had more going for her since she can manipulate electricity in many ways and work around Cole`s own electric empowered abilities also Cole has two games, Delsin only has one (for now) imagine if he had two games as well he may have potentially surpassed Cole so your point is void also while your comparison seems about right the thing is none of it matters considering Delsin already took on Misaka in the form of Fetch and Fetch is more mentally maintained she`s been through more she`s also fairly comparable to Cole although she may lack feats she has the background to backup herself against any point you may try to make, Delsin still took her down with her own ability although she was more experienced, more aggressively motivated and more adept at understanding what it means to be a Conduit so the same Delsin you continue to belittle is actually more impressive than what you can hope to understand.
4. Lol and that`s not the point. It would be more critical when avoiding attacks rather than playing keep away. Also Delsin can not only go through vents but he can go through other mediums and Misaka won`t expect it even she does figure it out Delsin could already have another power lying in wait. Also that is ONLY ONE WAY in which he can prove himself to being mobile he can also fly and dash also it`s expertly transitional so Misaka isn`t going to be miss perfect and hit him with a Railgun attack especially since she Delsin could already close the distance by the time that happens.
5. Some could and most just can`t. I don`t see how Misaka is going to be able to avoid a Hellfire Swarm, and Radiant Sweep actually scratch that... How can she even hope to avoid something like a Stasis Bubble or Subdue? Especially with Laser Focus active?
6. Losing oxygen isn`t something that`s new to a Conduit. While it happened more so with Fetch during First Light, someone like Delsin would figure out that something is affecting the air and he`ll make sure to avoid the area in which the effect is taking place also Delsin could easily counter with his Evil Smoke abilities (which work in a similar way) in which he can have Misaka stunned, trapped and overwhelmed then incinerated.
I understand where you are coming from and I agree although I finished this earlier pretty much Wednesday or Thursday last week, it did take a bit of a while however it was awesome to see your counter and then counter it :) You were amazing throughout this debate and cool, also the votes will be set to 10.
Now that everything has been settled, it`s time to explain why in simplest terms in regards to why the Conduit will be the remainder and victor of this battle:
In conclusion:
While Misaka is smart, cunning, insightful and strategically strengthened by her determination to win she will not be able to hold up well when facing Delsin. His unpredictability, versatility and power-set is nothing like Misaka has ever seen before and it will be trickier for her to come up with a on the fly strategy or be able to adapt since Delsin is a Conduit and not an Esper she`s not going to be able to use her electromagnetic powers to her advantage against an inferior level individual who cannot counter her abilities to any true extent.
Misaka while agile, nimble and calculative thanks to her sensory ability still won`t be able to hold off long due to the fact that the nature of Delsin`s attacks leave mobility out of the picture they just instantly entrap their target all Delsin needs to do essentially is aim and with Laser Focus this will become all the more easier since time is slowed. Delsin could have Misaka immobilized with Subdue and Stasis Bubble.
Delsin has already faced someone who is complimentary to Misaka that someone being Fetch who was far more experienced, trained, mentally pushed and hardened than he was also her mastery over her Neon abilities was lauded by Brooke but Delsin still beat her during his encounter with her and he used the environment as a resource.
Delsin like other Conduits has a special healing ability something that wasn`t really present or shown with Cole. But like Fetch he can rebound from a lot of punishment it`s not perfect or as perfected as some other healing factors but it`s enough to allow him to endure through Misaka`s attempts of attack. Also even if he does take damage all it will take is a couple of seconds for him to heal and he easily heals via absorption.
Misaka fighting Mugino and Frenda is cool but not substantial to say she can beat Delsin. In both situations she had the upper hand being a electromaster as even her opponents confirmed despite their advantageous attitudes. She had metal to manipulate that was surrounding her and all she could do was stay on the defensive so it kind of doesn`t make sense that you would say that Delsin would only be on the defensive considering Mugino forced Misaka on the defensive and she barely has any resourceful abilities another thing is Misaka can only react to a certain degree despite her sensory which has limits as noted by herself if I`m not mistaken.
Misaka`s Railgun is being overestimated IMO. While it is lethal and does showcase great range as well as depth when it comes to being able to cause damage it was only ever used on stationary and very still targets also it`s always set on a defined straight path which can easily be avoided by someone like Delsin who can either utilize vents, dash or fly to get the better of Misaka in the long run and even if it manages to tag him he always could rely on concrete to cut down the damage being dealt and that`s IF Misaka manages to hit him in the first place which seems more unlikely to me now that I think about it.
Delsin`s Orbital and Karma Drop can be avoided by Misaka but something like Hellfire Swarm and Radiant Sweep seems near impossible due to the nature in which the abilities function. Being LARGE AOE attacks these key abilities will affect the entire city area and it will draw in cars, trucks and other vehicles in the vicinity along with Misaka also Misaka already has had problems when it came to dodging far lesser AOE attacks especially when in a closed area as shown with Mugino and Frenda she must use surfaces to avoid damage but Delsin`s powers don`t only work on a larger scale as well as to a more effective degree but they also deal more damage and enclose the area whether it be big or small and considering that the city is Delsin`s territory in which he could use his powers to their fullest, I don`t see how Misaka is going to change that.
Misaka without a healing factor or any proper durability to her name can be taken down by simple Cinder Blasts or Sulfur Bombs which blow up cars, trucks, and heavily armored vehicles.
Misaka`s iron sand whip won`t be too much of problem even if Delsin`s close range since the concrete armor is more than enough to protect him and with Video he can become completely invisible even to Misaka`s sensory abilities especially since while invisible he can summon THREE angles or demons to have her distracted and not actively focused also distance is required many times for Misaka to completely react with inclusion to her sensory ability and whatever is summoned by Delsin`s command will be attacking from both the air and ground with long range attacks another thing is even if it fails it doesn`t mean that Delsin still couldn`t surprise Misaka with bloodthirsty swords which range in great numbers and hit the target with dead-on accuracy.
Delsin can switch between powers pretty fast so it won`t be a weakness like you have been falsely assuming and with his instincts he will keep Misaka on her toes despite if you think Misaka is faster and due to the nature of her esper abilities she won`t be able to react as fast against Delsin like she has done other espers.
I can go on, and on, on why Delsin wins this match but I will keep it simple.
And it seems like the clock has run out for Misaka:
Misaka will die.
And that`s my final point sadly...
What will happen is that Misaka even if she does prove as you say to be the one in the lead during the fight due to her awesome reflexes and great tactical mind she may just end up pushing Delsin far enough to the point where he completely gives in to his Evil Karmic side in which he traps her in a Stasis Bubble and has her explode or worst, there are a number of ways in which he could kill her.
Incinerate her while she`s trapped in a Stasis Bubble
Execute her while she`s Subdued
Blow her up with Cinder Blast while she`s left vulnerable during Laser Focus
Completely annihilate her with Karma Bomb
And that`s only four ways out of the many more possible hundreds in which he could creatively kill her...
Considering how long and huge your post is, i am simply going to make my life easier by addressing certain points we have been debating this entire time. If i feel there is something important to correct or reply to i will do so but for now, i am going to address certain points made by you NGW.
Durability and healing factor
This is still one confusing ass thing to address but at the same time its rather simple. You say that Delsin will tank or heal from Railgun or Ironsand, but its not that simple. Based on this segment of debate in general, it seems you are acting as if the amount of force railgun has and the amount of cutting power misaka's iron sand has is irrelevant thanks to his healing factor. But let me ask you a question. Is it impossible to kill wolverine? Or maybe Deadpool prior to the immortality he was given by Thanos?(both people with amazing healing factors) No. Someone like for say, superman could probably kill either of them out with a punch. However. Their healing factor would be null and void because there would be so much damage the body itself would be overwhelmed which would result in them getting killed before their healing ability activates and does its work. You see what i mean? This is what i meant by saying Delsin cannot take too much damage at once. Because you said it yourself, the railgun is fatal to delsin. If that lands on delsin the force would be too much and it would kill him before his accelerated healing could be of any use.
In fact i will be using Powerlistings as a good source for what i am saying since their words would be far better than mine.
link to article: http://powerlisting.wikia.com/wiki/Regenerative_Healing_Factor
Part you want to pay close attention to is limitations.
Limitations
Instantly lethal attacks are likely un-recoverable.
One Hit Kill is the prime example.
Complete Disintegration or Incineration may kill the user permanently.
Decapitation and distancing of the head away from the body may kill the user, as it prevents the brain from sending signals to the body to regenerate, with the exception of those with
Considering how Fetch barely took an explosion that wasn't even that impressive, i highly doubt Delsin is tanking anything from misaka. You claim that he will tank due to the feat of him falling in lava. Misaka's lightning is 1 million volts. I am pretty sure a regular bolt of lightning is as hot as the surface of the sun......... plus the concussive force has to be taken into consideration as well.
Speed and Delsin's mobility.(And Neon) And Delsin's intangibility.
We already discussed this but Misaka is faster than delsin, has higher reaction times, and is more agile(i don't mean gliding around like delsin does. I mean agility, speed, acrobats, movement, reflexes. Stuff delsin does not show with his own body. All he shows is basic parkour skills which are still extremely inferior to misaka's level of agility.)
It actually does. I did take the speed of the missiles into consideration I even noted that the feat itself in nature is impressive only it comes with context. By avoiding the missiles before the explosion it`s easier for her to change direction before the objects can be focused on her path and although that`s cool you have to understand being a esper vs a esper is critical in this situation.
She can more or less predict that Frenda was going to toss them at her, but you have to understand when you look at the scans again, you will see the missiles are already launched when she got blinded. Which means considering how she avoided the missiles and possibly the explosion, the only conclusion would mean that she would have to avoid them with her own reaction speed and speed in general. Its not like she had a huge window of opportunity to avoid them before they got anywhere close to her.
Now regarding Neon. You said something about neon controlling time. This is probably the biggest load of BS ever. If he was capable of slowing down time, then his movement speed would actually be light speed, and not the slow movement that is presented that can just barely keep up with a slow moving train in terms of pure travel speed. If he was capable of slowing down time he would be utterly unstoppable. Nobody would be capable of providing opposition, period. Considering how he likely got this ability from fetch as well, you have to understand that in their fight, couldn't delsin or fetch herself slowed down the other via this ability? And considering the opponents and threats Delsin had to go against, don't you think this would have been extremely useful against Augustine? Hell couldn't he have clear the entire game in probably seconds if he was actually the speed you are practically portraying of him since he has this ability? To add, when you use laser focus, YOU SLOW DOWN TOO. JUST LIKE PRECISION. If anything, it probably increases his perception speed. But slowing down time would be a huge contradiction all things considered.
To add, you say he is going to use laser focus to help him react to the railgun or misaka's ironsand or lightning, but how? If the move is already in initiation, how would this work? The move would already be in his face by the time he finally gets it ready, and what good would that do for him? He still wouldn't be able to dodge in time. The same argument applies to his other abilities in regards to phasing away from attacks.
Also you act as if Neon's speed is too much for misaka to handle. It really isn't. Him moving in the air won't change much.
Misaka react to Brunhild(supersonic to hypersonic speeds)
"An overwhelmingly violent fan that used the massive shockwave created when an object moved at supersonic speeds.
That would end it.
Not only would it crush the girl’s fat and muscles from the outside, but her eardrums, lungs, and trachea would rupture from within.
However…
“Damn you!!”
“!?”
She reacted just before it hit.
A dull noise came from below their feet. The ground below moved. The road at the top of the overpass was made in blocks that included the supports below. The girl controlled one entire block with magnetism to tilt it like a seesaw.
This caused Brunhild’s aim to be off with her claymore strike and the sonic boom flew off into the distance. All the glass in one of the buildings alongside the road was smashed to pieces.
(A broad-use electric type? So did she use some kind of radar? No, this is…!!)
Iron sand had been thinly spread all across the road surface.
Even if Brunhild Eiktobel’s movements exceeded the limits of the girl’s kinetic vision, she could clearly see what path Brunhild had taken thanks to her footprints.
And Misaka Mikoto did not stop there.
She snapped her fingers and shouted, “Be swallowed up!!”
The iron sand rose up in every direction.
It all began vibrating at high speed to create a storm of killer needles and then shot towards Brunhild Eiktobel from all 360 degrees around her.
Brunhild grabbed her giant claymore with both hands and swung it around in a full circle like she was performing a giant swing.
The explosive roar came slightly after the fact."
She can react to people who move faster than sound. Neon has no real speed feats that suggest that its any faster than so. If Misaka could do just fine against someone so swift, i am still struggling to understand why his mobility would be such an issue. I am trying to understand why wouldn't it be possible for Misaka to land a railgun or a storm of ironsand both maneuvers being faster than sound which Delsin hasn't reacted too before. I mean i know he can move through vents and stuff, but how does this help? Couldn't misaka simply send a swarm of iron sand right after him since she has a good idea where he would be going if she saw that?(or in her case, sensed that?) Also if Delsin is moving around and junk i still don't see why misaka couldn't just aim and shoot a railgun? It doesn't take that much time at all, and if Delsin sees her prep a railgun, how would he know what she is doing? Iron sand is one thing, but the railgun?
Lol and that`s not the point. It would be more critical when avoiding attacks rather than playing keep away. Also Delsin can not only go through vents but he can go through other mediums and Misaka won`t expect it even she does figure it out Delsin could already have another power lying in wait. Also that is ONLY ONE WAY in which he can prove himself to being mobile he can also fly and dash also it`s expertly transitional so Misaka isn`t going to be miss perfect and hit him with a Railgun attack especially since she Delsin could already close the distance by the time that happens.
Ummm if she sees someone literally go into an object and come out of an object similar to that, i don't know what else you would expect her to think. You say close the distance but again, she has outpaced missiles, she could easily be on the move while prepping a railgun. Go look at the feat of her sniping a helicopter again. Real closely, she was teleported several thousand feat into the air, fell towards the target, flipped her coin after confirming her target and precisely hit the support beam of the helicopter blades, which stopped its movements. All in a few seconds. That takes insane accuracy. Technically, the helicopter was a moving target if you look at it from a different perspective. She was falling towards the target. So technically she was moving while aiming the railgun. And Back to closing the distance. You say this as if it takes years for her to take a coin out of her pocket and shoot it. Again her rate of fire is 8 shots per minute with the railgun. And that's from her simply flipping the coin in the air then firing it. And you say close the distance as if he moves at the speed of sound, oh wait, he doesn't. Delsin is facing someone who can counter enemies who can push that level of speed. Delsin is facing someone who can react to bullets right after they are fired. Closing the distance is impossible. Delsin would get his head chopped of by iron sand or get zapped by a blast from misaka before he could do anything. Delsin isn't sonic the hedgehog or spiderman, he cannot effortlessly avoid attacks. The fact that he has such a ridiculously accelerated healing factor that compensates for his lack of durability(in the case he ever gets tagged) in comparison to other conduits support this.
She can easily get a railgun going anyway. Even in the midst of fighting a whole bunch of mechs in close quarters.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1fb2k63VL0
Also you showed me Fetch phasing through a gate. She phased through the holes that were there. Its not like she is danny phantom and she can phase through walls or anything. Can Delsin phase through large AOE Non-physical attacks?
And Misaka wouldn't even need to use the railgun............ she could simply blast delsin with electricity. Which he wouldn't survive since her highest voltage is 1 million. Far hotter than the surface of the sun and far hotter than lava.
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Especially attacks of this magnitude?
Misaka with her level of precision and reaction speed tagging delsin would be no different from Nack the mercenary(who has no superhuman speed and agility) tagging Sonic the hedgehog with his sniping skills in the archie comics.(Or many of flash's enemies doing the same to him.) So even if Delsin's mobility is great, he can still get tagged, whether you like it or not. Aim and shoot. In fact, remember what you said in regards to Misaka dodging the missiles? How she supposedly predicted the path of the missiles? Couldn't she do the same to Delsin while he is moving around in the air? Instead of shooting where he is, she can shoot where his going to be.
Back to Iron Sand. She moved her ironsand so fast that Sogitta Gunha(he is capable of moving and reacting at speeds above the speed of sound) had no choice but to defend instead of dodge he assault of Iron sand.
Misaka create hundreds of iron sand drills
But even so, there was already such a large flow of power. If Sogiita Gunha used his real ability to fight back, no matter who won, maybe there would be a need to be ready in case the entire park disappeared.
“AMAZING PUNCH... GUARD!!”
Facing the electric strike Mikoto released from her hand, he used what looked like a fist that was shrouded in a mirage to knock it to the ground. It was really a ridiculous scene.
In contrast, Mikoto used the iron sand to create several hundred drills and run them through with electricity, readying them to pierce Sogiita from all over the place, and shot them out. Manipulating the iron sand at such a speed that there was no time to breathe, she also let the empty cans ionize into plasma to distract the enemy’s eyes before running into him, displaying all sorts of attacks.
Misaka's capability to defend against attacks and her capability to apply pressure.
Misaka is capable of using her ironsand to defend against attacks. To counterattack, and to simply overwhelm or destroy a target.
Misaka is capable of using her lightning to blast away attacks from her accurately or to apply intense pressure against a target.(she can also use her lightning in a similar way to cole's lightning tether.)
Misaka is capable of using her magnetism to either defend herself against attacks or offensively use cover or large metal objects to attack foes or flank them to lead into another attack.
The best part of all this is she can keep track of her surroundings better than Delsin can thanks to her radar sense. And her capability to "fight three dimensionally."
This goes back to my previous argument in regards to neon mobility vs Misaka's agility and 3D maneuverability. Delsin could be flying up a vent, if misaka picks up on that and more or less gets a good guess where Delsin is going, she could simply scale the building faster than delsin would get to the top of said building and ambush him and Delsin wouldn't even expect it.
I`m a fan of Magi but I don`t see how that series really pertains to Misaka however I`m interested in seeing what you mean by this considering Delsin`s abilities follow a certain method and aren`t just typical abilities their unique in their own right also to add to the Neon point, Delsin can also exploit the ability to recover from Misaka`s attacks with his absorption ability as many Neon signs are present within a city.
Of course the person i showed in Magi has a far better grasp on this level of movement than Misaka does, but now you can easily understand why her movement speed is so impressive and why it isn't so farfetched that she can outpace missiles and certain attacks. So not only can she react to certain things, she can utilize Magnetism to help her avoid threats. As i showed previously, she can effortlessly jump from building to building, and jump across the city like its nothing thanks to these abilities.
Misaka fighting Mugino and Frenda is cool but not substantial to say she can beat Delsin. In both situations she had the upper hand being a electromaster as even her opponents confirmed despite their advantageous attitudes. She had metal to manipulate that was surrounding her and all she could do was stay on the defensive so it kind of doesn`t make sense that you would say that Delsin would only be on the defensive considering Mugino forced Misaka on the defensive and she barely has any resourceful abilities another thing is Misaka can only react to a certain degree despite her sensory which has limits as noted by herself if I`m not mistaken.
She was forced on the defensive mainly due to the fact that bombs were pre-set all over the place,and were hidden cleverly, her position was already known, and thanks to the nature of Mugino's ability she could literally snipe Misaka from anywhere even if walls were in the way. The combination of the trio made it impossible for her to go back on the offensive. It was clear she was in a situation that she couldn't handle by directly facing her foe, especially considering she wasn't at the top of her game.(And especially considering she was not interested in taking them down and was mainly focused on her objective.) And here is the thing you don't understand, sure the factory gave her an advantage in its own ways, but there isn't really anything that she did in the factory that she couldn't do in a urban environment. Especially considering she fought defensively and offensively against Brunhild with very little to work with besides the bridge beneath her which she used to pull up pieces of rock to protect herself, or the one i showed again, where she tilted the bridge in order to ruin her aiming of her shockwave. Misaka is fighting one person. Not three people with different abilities and prep and advantages which forced her to be on the defensive. Delsin believe it or not, is one person, and his powers are versatile but straight forward.(The only ability that seems really difficult is video) They are nowhere near as versatile as Cole, and other conduits in his own verse. Cole who uses his electricity manipulation to create an electric whirldwind or electric blades that can one shot pretty much anyone, or uses his powers to revive people. While delsin simply creates a move which is no different from Cole's thunder drop but stronger.(Orbital Drop) Or use moves that are purely destructive.(most of his moves are offensive)
Espers and Conduits, and Delsin and regarding his instincts in regards to his powers. And powerscaling.
Espers and Conduits are different you say. This depends, on what aspect are you comparing them? How they are brought up? Or their capabilities? Because neither is truly relevant. Misaka has never faced Mugino before but based on her capabilities, she judged that Mugino had a power similar to her own. She has never faced Frenda before but she saw that her powers can be a substitute in order to detonate her bombs. She had absolutely no knowledge of Accelerator's abilities. Just because she is an esper doesn't mean she knows all the powers an esper can have. She judges her opponents based on their capabilities and powers and approaches the situation accordingly. Exactly how would she judge Delsin's power based off the leveling system in academy city, when she doesn't know who Delsin is, or seen powers like his? She would clearly know that Delsin is something different. Especially if she sees him absorbing certain elements and gaining another power in turn. With her intellect it would be common sense at that point.
As for Delsin's instincts, it seems like speculation at this point. I mean he was put in situations where he had to think fast in order to get out of a jam. But with the way you describe him you make him sound like Stitch or maybe some amazing combat warrior who can instantly adapt to a situation. When that clearly isn't the case. He has a more or less basic mindset, but at the same time he is really clever when the time calls for it.
In regards to powers. You said he used brooke's powers against her with no training. Here is the thing you have to understand, for conduits, the strange thing is, that via certain power sources, they can gain new powers. Whether it would be large power surges of electricity(Cole) or Radioactive Stones(Blast Cores, A.K.A Infamous 2) or somehow, somehow, core relays. When they use these sources, an image pops in their head as if they just realized something they didn't know they could do. This image most likely comes with the "instincts" or instructions to immediately be capable of utilizing these abilities to their fullest. AS soon as cole got a power up but powering a substation he would get a new power and immediately know how to do it. Instead of struggling to know how to use said power,despite simply seeing an image of it, he immediately understands how to use it. As if he unlocked the memory of said power. Its not as if his quick thinking allows him to use the power.
Now to refer to the things you have been doing with Fetch and Delsin. Powerscaling. We see fetch taking a point blank explosion,(which wasn't that impressive by the way which i will come back to later) but you then apply this to Delsin. You see Fetch using a power like supernova then you apply this to delsin. You cannot do that. Surprisingly enough, each conduit is different. Cole Macgrath can tank being thrown into a building, and bombarded by building busting bombs. Can you see any other conduit do this? No not really. Cole combined his powers with Kuo/Nix but his control of their powers (despite spending the time to flex them out before the beast's arrival)respectively is at a far and i mean far lower level than the users he got the powers from. We can apply the same thing to Delsin. Not only does some of the moves he performs pretty much the same as the ones he has in smoke,concrete and video, but they are on a far lesser scale than Fetch's. So assuming that Delsin can use supernova or instantly perform any feat she can do is ludicrous.
For example, can you simply assume that Cole can perform all the feats that Kessler can do? Not really, based off multi-verse theory, Kessler is technically from another world. So Kessler in his own way far different from cole.
Misaka's "anger"
There has not been a single battle except for her battle against touma(which doesn't even matter since it wasn't a serious fight anyway) and her battle against Accelerator(which she had good reason to be angry and desperate) where her anger has messed with her composure. That's all i am going to say on the matter. Especially considering there is nothing Delsin could possibly say to her especially considering he doesn't know her. He isn't spiderman, he cannot just make insults and corny annoying jokes on the fly about a random stranger.
Railgun
Misaka`s Railgun is being overestimated IMO. While it is lethal and does showcase great range as well as depth when it comes to being able to cause damage it was only ever used on stationary and very still targets also it`s always set on a defined straight path which can easily be avoided by someone like Delsin who can either utilize vents, dash or fly to get the better of Misaka in the long run and even if it manages to tag him he always could rely on concrete to cut down the damage being dealt and that`s IF Misaka manages to hit him in the first place which seems more unlikely to me now that I think about it.
1. Stationary? Even then her stated firing rate for her railgun is 8 shots per minute. And the theory of her shotgun railgun is pretty possible considering flicking a coin isn't the only way she can fire her railgun.
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Also like i said before she can multitask, what's stopping her from suppressing fire with iron sand barrages, then flanking with a railgun shot while delsin is busy dodging the iron sand?
2. You say dash in vents and fly. But first off, misaka can potentially destroy a building with a single railgun shot with her coins. I don't see how hiding in a vent will help much. Flying i already addressed.
3.You bring up concrete as if Delsin can instantly switch to concrete. But that's clearly not how his powers work. And you still haven't shown any feats showing that Concrete can tank something with the amount of force her railguns have. Going from blowing up cars to blasting through nuclear shelters. Along with the fact that she can use even bigger objects to increase the force and power of her railgun. He isn't taking a fire hydrant, or a car or a large metal object like a garbage can maybe, moving at Mach3+ when her simple arcade coins can cause so much destruction. And i highly doubt Concrete is tanking an iron sand storm.
4. Aim and shoot. It really wouldn't be that hard for someone like Misaka with her level of accuracy to tag delsin, especially considering she sniped a helicopter's blades with minimal power and precison the instant she had the helicopter lined in her sight.
Also you said i was wanking the capabilities of the railgun by saying it was light speed, i was not bullshitting you. Here Misaka's states what a railgun is.
Karma Bombs and their capabilities to be avoided.
I don't see how Hellswarm cannot be avoided. That would be no different from her dodging guided missiles except in this case, the missiles are far slower.
And i didn't want to bring this up until the end. But Radiant sweep is another ability i have to question. His stasis bubbles sound godlike with the way you describe them and so does his radiant sweep karma bomb. How come he doesn't use this often against powerful foes? If he could easily trap someone in a stasis bubble why go through so much trouble?
Things aren't looking good for delsin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y3R8tkvlAlk
Your comparison of Delsin to Sonic and Sora's games.
In the infamous games you are interacting with your environment far more than you do in KH or STH games. Certain capabilities of fighters do more or less affect the gameplay and the story. For example the few stop magic abilities sora has, or gravity magic and what not. Most of the top tiers in KH or FF have a high resistance to time magic and gravity magic so if sora tries to use either on them and it fails, its not really surprising. As for Sonic, you usually have one objective, make it to the goal with high speed and agility and reflexes. You look at sonic's other games like sonic battle(GBA fighting game) his combat techniques can be supported by the presence and existence of the major character, Emerl. Its clearly stated that he can copy the moves and fighting styles of other combatants and combine them with everything else he has learned. Infamous games on the other hand you could play the game in so many ways its hard to tell which feats are canon or not. In games like Kirby, or Mario, or Sonic, or Kingdom Hearts or Final Fantasy things are done in a lesser fleshed out environment then Infamous where you can interact with it, so its easier to distinguish feats in those games then it is Infamous, especially since there aren't so much to be argued about one single character.
In conclusion
Misaka is more agile, faster and precise. And is far more accurate with her attacks and defenses than delsin is.
She can fight three dimensionally, and keep track of her surroundings far better than Delsin can
She can easily go on the defensive and offensive far faster and far more efficiently than Delsin can.
Due to her reaction speed and magnetism, she can easily counter attacks and avoid them as well. And can use her environment as her weapon.
Delsin is very mobile but Misaka might as well be a sharpshooter with her feats.
Delsin can switch powers pretty quick, however, its not like he can switch to his powers so fast as if he has all of them at once. He would have to stop or look for a source, stop, absorb said source, than begin to use said power. Its impractical especially considering the possibility of running out of nearby sources, or of a blackout thanks to misaka's powers, the only option he would have are concrete and Smoke, both abilities not being too useful against misaka. Considering the story presented in the OP this battle takes place in Academy City. An environment unknown to Delsin, its like not like he knows where everything is. And neon is only avaliable in the evening or the night. When neon lights turn on. Smoke isn't everywhere like concrete is, and Video has to be obtained from Satellites. Delsin is in a new environment technically, that is years ahead of his own world in terms of technology. So he would have to familiarize himself with the area before he could go snatching up sources. Misaka already knows the area pretty well.
Whether you like it or not, Delsin has no real speed feats of the sort. And no reaction time feats either outside of laser focus which is an essentially featless ability which supposedly "slows down time" when that isn't exactly impressive considering there have been superhumans like Captain America and Spiderman who can see their situations in slow motion due to the speed they are moving at. We do not know to what extent his perception speed is boosted in laser focus.
Delsin is inexperienced in comparison to Misaka and his abilities are more or less straight forward. His "instincts" are unquantifiable considering the gameplay environment Delsin exists in. And considering the feat of Delsin using brooke's powers against her is not valid as a feat for instincts since the instant a conduit gets a new power they experience a short precognitive glimpse into the future seeing themselves perform the move exactly. Therefore being capable of performing that move via "instincts"
"The Court finds Delsin Rowe GUILTY for charges of murder, several reports of assault and fine him for all damages done in Seattle Washington. And The Court also finds Delsin Rowe incapable of beating Misaka Mikoto in combat.
@neongamewave This was an awesome debate man, i felt like i was actually phoenix wright going up against one of his insanely good prosecutor rivals like Edgeworth or Godot. You really make me think you know that? All of the replies i made where i sounded extremely cocky, trust me, i had to think in order to make those replies.Like always you make these arguments that are extremely hard to counter. And you make someone who seems like a weakling sound like a god. Props to you man. Its always a challenge to debate you.
@neongamewave This was an awesome debate man, i felt like i was actually phoenix wright going up against one of his insanely good prosecutor rivals like Edgeworth or Godot. You really make me think you know that? All of the replies i made where i sounded extremely cocky, trust me, i had to think in order to make those replies.Like always you make these arguments that are extremely hard to counter. And you make someone who seems like a weakling sound like a god. Props to you man. Its always a challenge to debate you.
Please it would be an honor if you guys could vote on this.
I agree :) And that`s awesome, the debate was very exciting as well as intense you did a remarkable job in defending Misaka against my character Delsin. Thanks for the kind words, but I have to say again that you were amazing throughout the entire debate, you were very in-depth, and you were very much confidently in your element, your points were epic as well as they were also very natural and sharp. Thanks for making this debate so awesome as well as enjoyable :)
@neongamewave This was an awesome debate man, i felt like i was actually phoenix wright going up against one of his insanely good prosecutor rivals like Edgeworth or Godot. You really make me think you know that? All of the replies i made where i sounded extremely cocky, trust me, i had to think in order to make those replies.Like always you make these arguments that are extremely hard to counter. And you make someone who seems like a weakling sound like a god. Props to you man. Its always a challenge to debate you.
Please it would be an honor if you guys could vote on this.
I agree :) And that`s awesome, the debate was very exciting as well as intense you did a remarkable job in defending Misaka against my character Delsin. Thanks for the kind words, but I have to say again that you were amazing throughout the entire debate, you were very in-depth, and you were very much confidently in your element, your points were epic as well as they were also very natural and sharp. Thanks for making this debate so awesome as well as enjoyable :)
@deathhero61: ah sorry i forgot ill read over it dont worry u will have my answer in about eh 20 to 30 mins it mite not be long it mite not be the biggest answer u want but u will get it.
I'm here, I'm here. Goodness that was a long debate. Great job to both of you, this was awesome.
In the end, I'll have to give it to @deathhero61 and Misaka. I believe you both debated equally in skill, but he had the more believable argument. Based off the debate, Misaka would be able to defend against most things thrown at her and still be able to put down Delsin with either Ironsand or the Railgun.
I don't believe it was proven enough that concrete armor could tank those attacks or that Delsin had the reactions to dodge. Mobility into vents was proven useless by the magnitude of those attacks.
There's also the fact Delsin wouldn't be able to use all his powers at will. He would have to go out, find, and take the time to drain that element. With that limitation in place, Delsin severely loses his versatility, seeing that he would be vulnerable while trying to change powers.
Again, you both were great. I just think Deathhero's case made more sense.
@deathhero61@neongamewave: Guys, give me a bump tomorrow, and I will read and vote. Don't have time this evening, but I should have a few hours to spare tomorrow.
Read and done, Alright as for sources and the actual well stuff, both of you did good. Really you guys did a good job on providing the most basic stuff that is needed in an argument ( proof ). However when it came to counters again you were both about even i felt Neon did a justifiable job on his part and had me going, but at times deathhero had me going as well, but never the less it was about even. Now as for counters with proof i feel Neon lacked and there was a lot more guessing i guess and some flaws that death really did point out, like Delsin's durability and ability use. All while neon you did good, but i feel your counters didnt actually put in question misaka's ability to win the match just that she couldnt because my powers were better, which in itself is a debate to which i feel u gave it a good reason, but not a one that i'd put over death. I guess i should stop now cause ill prolly lose focus. Anyway good job on both of you really good job, but deathhero wins due to just a tad bit better at the counters and the proof provided with his counters to support his claims, but hint TO SUPPORT his claims. You did support neon, but as i said death did it better imo. @neongamewave@deathhero61
@neongamewave: My apologies, I'm rather busy and I have no idea who either of these characters are to begin with. :P Probably gonna have to type out a few paragraphs still before I can get on with my day. Can I raincheck?
@neongamewave: thanks for the tag......................but these are characters I am very unfamiliar with. To vote I will have to solely look at debating ability and prowess.....which is hindered in judging by my lack of contextual knowledge on the combatants.
Both joewell & killerwasp summed up on how I saw the debate. My vote goes to Deathhero. Though my only real grip is the lethal force Misaka was shown which isn't something she really does unless she's really pressed.
My vote goes to Neon but the problem is that this debate felt more like a tie than anything. While @deathhero61 did express his points more factually throughout and even though he may have had more display for Misaka`s showings, I thought Neon still had the stronger case overall due to the beginning and end arguments he supported his case strongly with Delsin's Radiant Sweep also Hellfire Swarm which I don't see Misaka outlasting or holding out against for too long. Also Death seemed to overlook things or just disregard them too quickly like Delsin`s Laser Focus but this debate was a great read although it took awhile, and it was REALLY close it was hard for me to choose, I went back and forth between both of your arguments and at one point I didn`t know who to exactly choose.
I'll be voting for Death here. I enjoyed his concise use of sources and felt he expertly connected the source material to the argument at hand. I also see Misaka as being on a generally higher tier of power than Delsin here, which in my view should place the victory in her hands in the majority of hypothetical match-ups between them. Neon also did a very good job as well however, and there's little in the way of criticism I can say for the method of his arguments.
It's funny how we all see things from different perspectives and view points on reading these debates. Just a random thought there from reading the votes of those who left a little something. So, my thoughts here won't be exceedingly detailed, but I will drop what I can.
@deathhero61: You have increased by leaps and bounds in your time here. If I looked at some of your starting work on this site and compare it to this, it would be like looking at the debates of two separate people. You did well with the source material, and your debate was fairly on point. Where I felt you faltered somewhat was in the discussion of more lethal abilities (as someone else brought up), as from what I have seen of the anime, she isn't as likely to use to use those, not like Deslin, who is more likely to go lethal earlier on with that evil karmic side.
@neongamewave: There isn't a whole lot to say. You went at it like a seasoned vet, you stayed on point as well, and there was some great back and forth between the two of you.
I have got to say, I really have no idea who to vote for here. You both presented strong cases, both had great arguments, and both started and stayed strong throughout. For now, I am going for a tie here, but I will look this over again in a bit and see if I can choose one over the other.
I vote Delsin, from what was shown he has just too many tricks to pull out for her to handle, and from what was shown I believe he has superior combat speed.
@neongamewave: My apologies, I'm rather busy and I have no idea who either of these characters are to begin with. :P Probably gonna have to type out a few paragraphs still before I can get on with my day. Can I raincheck?
@deathhero61 This was a very long and was pretty good debate.Neon had good counters against you and Misaka,but overall you prove why Misaka win this battle. You got my vote.
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