Rules:
- Random encounter for both sides
- You can't stomp, and can only use a single character.
- Fight is on an uninhabited, indestructible earth.
- Both sides are in character
Heres a respect thread I made if you don't know what he can do.
Defeat the Plutonian
@reaverlation said:
@uberhikari: So what is he? Is he a pure psionic energy being? Because it doesn't matter what his powers are if he's still limited to using motion or kinetic energy to move.
No, he's not made of psionic energy or anything like that. Plutonian's power is not psionic as in psychic abilities like Nate Grey. Plutonian's power is psionic quantum manipulation. In other words, it's the ability to manipulate reality at a quantum level. In essence, it's a form of psuedo-reality warping. Plutonian (and his entire race) have the capacity to control and manipulate all fundamental aspects of reality. Here is Modeus explaining Plutonian's power to Qubit:
Here are some examples of Plutonian's abilities using quantum manipulation:
Pay close attention to the second scan because pr0metheus mischaracterizes it as a strength feat, which it is not. Plutonian didn't stop the moon from spinning by using strength, he willed the moon to stop spinning by negating its inertia. This is particularly relevant in this case because Wally's power is predicated on manipulating kinetic energy. Tony doesn't just manipulate kinetic energy he controls the fundamental forces of reality itself, and, in some cases, can simply nullify them. So, I don't think speed steal is going to work.
I'll just go over Wally's ways to win.
First, let me clarify some of the scans @pr0metheus posted in his respect thread.
1. When Tony was captured by the Vespan's and sent to a prison labor camp, they used a graviton generator to keep their prisoners in check. Here's the explanation:
As the Vespan explains, once the gravity well is turned up to maximum, it's the equivalent of being pulled down by the weight of an entire star system. This functions as both a strength and durability feat: it's a strength feat because Tony was able to stay on his feet and it's a durability feat because everybody else was liquified.
2. When the Vespan's realized how powerful Tony was decided to get rid of him. So, they locked him into a containment unit with the density of half a white dwarf star:
This is how dense a white dwarf star is:
A white dwarf, then, packs mass comparable to the Sun's into a volume that is typically a million times smaller than the Sun's; the average density of matter in a white dwarf must therefore be, very roughly, 1,000,000 times greater than the average density of the Sun, or approximately 106g/cm3, or 1 tonne per cubic centimetre.[1] A typical white dwarf star has a density of between 10 7 and 1011 kg per cubic meter. A normal-sized matchbox containing white dwarf material would have a mass of some 250 tonnes. White dwarfs are composed of one of the densest forms of matter known, surpassed only by other compact stars such as neutron stars, black holes and, hypothetically, quark stars.[30]
The unit Plutonian was locked in was half as dense as a white dwarf star, so you have to half these figures. But still that's pretty crazy. Plutonian was essentially in a white dwarf star the size of a casket and he was NOT harmed in the slightest.
IMP:Let's say Tony was able to be physically hit.From the durability scans you showed, I'd say the IMP would harm him but not to an extent like it would like maybe Superman as those were some crazy durability feats
3. When Modeus took over Bette Noire's body and power he was able to create a wormhole which siphoned off the energy of stars, transported it to his/her fist, and then punched Plutonian in the face with it.
It's important to note that Plutonian only took damage because he wanted to. He felt guilty about Modeus taking over Bette's body so he took the hits as punishment he thought he deserved. Given Plutonian's ability to control atomic density, he didn't have to take any damage at all. He could have hardened himself to withstand the blows or decreased his density to become intangible. By statements, the strongest physical attacks Wally has are IMP's, but I think they'd be pretty much useless here.
BFR:Another way of winning as you can't really escape unless you're a massive energy manipulator or can BFR through most if not all dimensions...or Prime who isn't normal
How is Wally going to BFR Plutonian? First, Wally was only able to do that to Black Flash because he followed Wally to the end of the universe. Second, Wally was bloodlusted when he did that but this fight is in character.
Time Travel:Wally going back in time and prevent Tony from being born or existing
Why is this not self BFR? Wally would have to leave the battlefield and then go back in time.
Overall, I think a fight between Plutonian and Wally would probably be a stalemate simply because Wally is too fast. I don't see how Plutonian would ever lay a finger on Wally but, on the other hand, Wally could never hurt Plutonian.
@killemall said:
@strider92 said:
Can Wally resist being reality warped so his speed means nothing? Or having his mass changed so that his hands break if he attempts to punch Tony?
Could you point to the issue he has done either consciously and earned a victory over any of his opponent?
Plutonian has been unconsciousnessly manipulating atomic density during his fights throughout the entire series. And since Qubit trained him, it would be odd to argue that gaining better control over an ability would make someone worse at it during a fight.
Qubit teaching Plutonian how to manipulate atomic density, exploit quantum entanglement, negate inertia, and matter manipulation:
The speed force isn't going to help Wally here. Plutonian can psionically control/manipulate the fundamental forces of nature on a quantum level. Wally manipulates kinetic energy, Plutonian manipulates reality. Reality manipulation >>> kinetic energy manipulation.
@uberhikari said:
Plutonian has been unconsciousnessly manipulating atomic density during his fights throughout the entire series. And since Qubit trained him, it would be odd to argue that gaining better control over an ability would make someone worse at it during a fight.
That is not what i am arguing, i am arguing something a little different, he hasnt shown to be able to manipulate his or anyone's atomic density during a fight willingly. Had Qubit's traning done a lot for him, he would have faired much better against Modeus amped Betty as opposed to be stark helpless against her.
Gallery
Qubit teaching Plutonian how to manipulate atomic density, exploit quantum entanglement, negate inertia, and matter manipulation:
An ability he has never been shown to be capable of using in a fight, before or after the said training which occurs in Irredeemable # 34, unless you can show me something to the contrary.
The speed force isn't going to help Wally here.
I disagree.
If he actually understood his powers properly and was capable of using it better than yes.
Gravity is one of the fundamental forces of nature just as well, much like speed of the expanding universe (speedforce). He ceratainly wasnt capable of competing against a character whose sole power was amped up gravity manipulation.
He doesnt manipulate reality, he could based on the inference of Modus , but for that he needs to understand his powers better.
The whole reality manipulation only comes into effect he he could "move from kindergarden to grade school"
If you have evidence of him doing so, i would like to see.
Evidently gravity manipulation of a star > Reality manipulation, if think it that way.
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