#1 Edited by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

Rules:

Only villians from DC universe, no one above Zoom level.

You can only use 4 villians.

NO BFR aloud.

Essence Transfer aloud.

EU version.

Go.

#2 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

What? So many people stomp this it's not funny.

#3 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

What? So many people stomp this it's not funny.

I changed it to no one above Zoom level. Even though many people didn't stomp under darkseid level, your making me make it more unfair then balanced.

#4 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok. Here's my under Darkseid list: Lobo, Bizarro, Mongul Jr. and Sr, Cyborg Superman, General Zod, Doomsday (Debatable whether he's below Darkseid), Parasite, and more I could name if I thought about it longer. These also could apply to your Zoom parameter.

#5 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Ok. Here's my under Darkseid list: Lobo, Bizarro, Mongul Jr. and Sr, Cyborg Superman, General Zod, Doomsday (Debatable whether he's below Darkseid), Parasite, and more I could name if I thought about it longer. These also could apply to your Zoom parameter.

Since the team has no prep, I do not think Lobo or Doomsday will see what's coming when a force storm is opened.

Zod stands very little chance. What are his speed feats? As far as I am concerned he lacks the ability to react before being hit by a saber.

Palpatine falls to any version of superman, but then possess Superman and finishes off the rest of the team.

#6 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

Palpatine was killed by a half-dead guy in a clunky black suit. Lobo, Doomsday, and especially Zod outspeed Palpatine so much it's a stomp. Zod is kryptonian, you knew that right?

#7 Posted by MasterJohn (2471 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

Palpatine was killed by a half-dead guy in a clunky black suit.

This is the funniest comment I've seen in a while.. You understand Palpatine outclasses Vader? Plus, he came back. Plus, this is EU palpatine. I can't even pack a logical punch on this one, I'l let the experts deal with this one.

obo, Doomsday, and especially Zod outspeed Palpatine so much it's a stomp

This is so not true.

He moves in a blur of motion as he kills two Dugs and then deflects blaster fire from around a dozen guards.

Crawling to the first egress—a distance of scarcely ten meters—he lowered himself into a murky storage room and once more called the weapon’s crimson blade from the hilt. Constructed to fit the Muun’s large hand, the lightsaber felt unwieldy in Sidious’s, so he switched to a two-handed grip. Moving with a caution that belied his murderous intent, and on the alert for cams or other security devices, he eased out of the room into a tight corridor and followed it toward the front of the building. There, in a formal entryway, two Dugs were standing guard in a desultory way. Moving quickly, a blur to human senses, he caught them by surprise, splitting open the chest and abdomen of one and beheading the other while the first was attempting to prevent his entrails from spilling onto the glossy mosaic floor. A brief scan of the foyer revealed the presence of cams installed in the walls and high ceiling. He wondered how the killings appeared to anyone monitoring a display screen. It must have seemed as if the two Dugs had been butchered by a phantom.
Still, all the more reason to hurry.
He sprinted up the stairs to the next floor, where he heard a cacophony of human voices muffled by the thick door to a nearby room. Blowing the door inward with a Force push, he took a wide stance in the shattered doorway and positioned the blade of the thrumming lightsaber vertically in front of him. Through the weapon’s glow he saw a dozen or more Santhe guards in uniform seated around a table littered with food and drink containers gape at him in disbelief before reaching for weapons fastened to their hips or scurrying for others buried beneath the rubble of their celebratory meal.
Sidious waded into the room, returning volleys of blaster bolts from those first to fire, then attacked, raising his left hand to levitate two guards into midair before running his blade through each of them. Snarling like a beast, he whirled through a circle, ridding three guards of their heads and cutting a fourth in half at the waist. The blade impaled a guard who had flattened himself to the floor in abject terror, then went straight into the shrieking mouth of the last of them.

--Taken from Darth Plagueis

Sidious runs and swings Maul's lightsaber faster than Maul can see. Maul is fast enough to perceive nearly invisibly swift blows in slow motion, fight faster than Qui-Gon Jinn, and deflect fire from several droid squad patrols, each of which consists of eight droids.

Suddenly, my lightsaber is gone. It flies from my hand across the room. It lands in the hand of my Master. I never see him enter. Not if he doesn't want me to. The smile of triumph fades from my face.
"Do you think," Lord Sidious says, walking toward me, "you can ever relax your guard?"
"No, Master." What a clumsy, weak mistake. I should be prepared for him to enter at all times. How could I have forgotten that, even for a moment?
The lightsaber whirls in the air, twirling, held in my Master's hand. I can't track it, it moves so fast. But I know it's heading for me. Lord Sidious moves faster than my eye can follow. I smell heat and smoke. The laser traces the outline of my body, my face, my hands. The buzz is loud in my ear. One flinch, one involuntary twitch of a muscle, and I am dead.
I do not flinch.
At last, Lord Sidious deactivates my weapon. He tosses it toward me. The sweat on my palm almost causes me to drop it.
"Do not let me see you relax your guard again," my Master says. His eyes burn. "You are valuable, yes. But you are not indispensable, Lord Maul. I can do without you."
A flick of his robe, and he is gone.

--Taken from Episode 1 Journal: Darth Maul

The Sith apprentice stood in the middle of the training chamber as the four droids circled him. His breathing was calm, his heartbeat even and slow. He was aware of his body's reactions to the danger—aware and in control.
Two of the droids—Rapier and Chain, he silently named them—were within his field of vision. The other two—Cudgel and Hachete—were not, being behind him. It did not matter; through his awareness of the Force he could sense their movements as plainly as if he had eyes in the back of his head.
Maul raised his own weapon, the double-bladed lightsaber, and triggered the power control. Twin lances of pure energy boiled forth, hissing and crackling in crimson loops that began and ended at the two flux apertures on either end of the device. Any Jedi Knight could wield a single-bladed lightsaber; only a master fighter could use the weapon first designed by the legendary Dark Lord Exar Kun millennia ago. Unless one was in perfect attunement with it, the weapon could be as deadly to the user as to the opponent.
Rapier lunged at full extension, its metal knee joint bent almost to the floor. The needle point flickered toward Maul's heart, almost too fast to see.
The dark side blossomed in Darth Maul, the power of it resonating in him like black lightning, augmenting his years of training, guiding his reactions. Time seemed to slow, to stretch.
It would have been easy to chop the blade itself in half, as few metals could resist the frictionless edge of a lightsaber. But there was no challenge to that. Maul spun toward the point, twisted around the outside, and snapped his hands horizontally at chest level. The left blade of the lightsaber sheared through Rapier's sword arm. Both arm and weapon clattered to the floor.

--Taken from Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter

Its rider rode out of the glare of the suns and was revealed. Bold markings of red and black covered a demonic face in strange, jagged patterns beneath a crown of stunted horns encircling its head. Man shaped and humanoid, his slitted eyes and hooked teeth were nevertheless feral and predatory, and his how was a hunter's challenge to his prey.
The primal scream had barely sounded before he was on top of Qui-Gon, wheeling the speeder aside deftly at the last moment, closing off its thruster, and leaping from the seat, all in one swift movement. He carried a lightsaber of another make, and the weapon was cutting at the Jedi Master even before the attacker's feet had touched the ground. Qui-Gon, surprised by the other's quickness and ferocity, barely blocked the blow with his own weapon, the blades sliding apart with a harsh rasp. The attacker spun away in a whirl of dark clothing, then attacked anew, lightsaber slashing at his intended prey, face alight with a killing frenzy that promised no quarter.
Anakin was back on his feet, staring at them, clearly unable to decide what he should do. Fighting to hold his ground, Qui-Gon caught sight of him out of the corner of his eye.
"Annie! Get out of here!" he cried out.
His attacker closed with him again, forcing him back, striking at him from every angle. Even without knowing anything else, Qui-Gon knew this man was trained in the fighting arts of a Jedi, a skilled and dangerous adversary. Worse, he was younger, quicker, and stronger than Qui-Gon, and he was gaining ground rapidly.

--Taken from The Phantom Menace

The deserted city of stately domes and elegant spires struck him as an artifact—or perhaps a quaint historical replica closed for routine maintenance. Squads of B1 battle droids armed with blaster rifles patrolled the narrow streets and stood sentry outside the Theed Palace and other major buildings. Evading them effortlessly, Maul timed the patrols, made note of their numbers, and used the Force to create sounds that tricked the droids into moving in one direction or another. The idea of using droids as combatants annoyed him, for droids were only as good as their programming, and the bipedal, slender-headed B1 had limited skills and no ability to perform autonomously. Only the fact that the droids, too, were integral to his Master’s more far-reaching plan kept Maul from revulsion. The deeper he ventured into the galaxy, the less honor he found.
But the Sith would redress that deficit once the Jedi were exterminated and the Republic brought down.
Maul stowed the speeder in an alley that ran alongside Theed’s space force hangar, which was perched on the edge of an escarpment. Inside the domed building he took stock of Naboo’s smart yellow-and-chromium Nubian fighters, neatly arranged in berths on several tiers, with an R2 astromech droid assigned to each ship. Despite the success of the occupation, the Neimoidians would have been wise to disable the fighters, but they were apparently incapable of tampering with anything of value. As with the control ship, Maul was tempted to show them the error of their ways, but again he did nothing.
Emerging from the hangar, he allowed himself to be detected and confronted by a patrol of droids. In a metallic voice, their officer unit ordered him to halt and raised its E-5 rifle. Reared by Darth Sidious’s custodial droids on Mustafar, Maul—for many years—had had a complex relationship with droids of any sort. Certainly his fascination with technology owed in part to the circumstances of his abnormal upbringing, but he had no compunction about destroying droids when the need arose, whether in training sessions or on missions. Still, he derived no enduring satisfaction from the contests, even when combating the most sophisticated among them.
Calling his long lightsaber to his hand, he made short work of the squad, decapitating them with his blade or exploding them by deflecting blaster bolts back at them. The brief altercation drew several more patrols, the members of which he similarly dismembered.

--Taken from End Game

Squad (8 battle droids): A squad consists of eight battle droids. While organic squads were led by a sergeant, droid squads didn't need an officer, as the squad members were directed remotely or programmed before an arrangement.

--Taken from The Essential Guide to Warfare

hen Mace Windu, Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin confront Palpatine to arrest him, Sidious kills Tiin and Kolar before either can react. Saesee is fast enough to deflect fire from numerous shooters while forming a shield out of his blade.

A fountain of amethyst energy burst from Mace Windu's fist. "Don't try to resist."
The song of his blade was echoed by green fire from the hands of Kit Fisto, Agen Kolar, and Saesee Tiin. Kolar and Tiin closed on Palpatine, blocking the path to the door. Shadows dripped and oozed color, weaving and coiling up office walls slipping over chairs, spreading along the floor.
"Resist? How could I possibly resist?" Still seated at the desk Palpatine shook an empty fist helplessly, the perfect image of a tired, frightened old man. "This is murder, you Jedi traitors! How can I be any threat to you?"
He turned desperately to Saesee Tiin. "Master Tiin—you're the telepath. What am I thinking right now?" Tiin frowned and cocked his head. His blade dipped. A smear of red-flashing darkness hurtled from behind the desk. Saesee Tiin's head bounced when it hit the floor. Smoke curled from the neck, and from the twin stumps of the horns, severed just below the chin.
Kit Fisto gasped, "Saesee!"
The headless corpse, still standing, twisted as its knees buckled, and a thin sigh escaped from its trachea as it folded to the floor.
"It doesn't..." Agen Kolar swayed. His emerald blade shrank away, and the handgrip tumbled from his opening fingers. A small, neat hole in the middle of his forehead leaked smoke, showing light from the back of his head. "...hurt..." He pitched forward onto his face, and lay still.

--Taken from Revenge of the Sith

He kills Agen Kolar, Saesee Tiin, and Kit Fisto before Mace realizes what happened, presumably before Mace draws on his speed amplification.

Before Mace realizes what has happened, Kolar, Tiin, and Fisto have fallen to Sidious's blade.

--Taken from The Complete Visual Dictionary

All credit goes to Silver2467.

Ahem, if you wish to see how much more fast Palpatine is, check this out, I simply will not post all of his speed feats:

http://www.comicvine.com/myvine/silver2467/emperor-palpatinedarth-sidious-respect-thread/87-63101/

So again, where are the speed feats for Zod, lobo, etc?

#8 Posted by CalebHara (2329 posts) - - Show Bio

Professor Zoom

Doomsday

Deathstroke

Solomon Grundy

#9 Posted by ImTheDamnBatman (3548 posts) - - Show Bio

@MasterJohn I'll admit I didn't know Palpatine had so many feats, but moving in a blur of motion is nothing. With Zod and the others, you don't even see a blur. They contend with Superman, somebody who is fast as light and in some cases FTL. I see no reason Zod or Doomsday can't close in on the old man and pummel him.

#10 Posted by Nefarious (22932 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam 
 
Superboy Prime 
  
Bizarro
 
All are blood-lusted.

#11 Posted by ShootingNova (19077 posts) - - Show Bio

@ImTheDamnBatman said:

@MasterJohn I'll admit I didn't know Palpatine had so many feats, but moving in a blur of motion is nothing. With Zod and the others, you don't even see a blur. They contend with Superman, somebody who is fast as light and in some cases FTL. I see no reason Zod or Doomsday can't close in on the old man and pummel him.

He was not referencing a blur. He was referencing moving so fast Anakin couldn't even see him:

Anakin blinked and rubbed his eyes again. Maybe he was still a bit flash-blind—the Korun Master seemed to be fading in and out of existence, half swallowed by a thickening black haze in which danced a meter-long bar of sunfire. Mace pressed back the darkness with a relentless straight-ahead march; his own blade, that distinctive amethyst blaze that had been the final sight of so many evil beings across the galaxy, made a haze of its own: an oblate sphere of purple fire within which there seemed to be dozens of swords slashing in all directions at once.
The shadow he fought, that blur of speed—could that be Palpatine?
Their blades flared and flashed, crashing together with bursts of fire, weaving nets of killing energy in exchanges so fast that Anakin could not truly see them—but he could feel them in the Force. The Force itself roiled and burst and crashed around them, boiling with power and lightspeed ricochets of lethal intent. And it was darkening.

He could feel the end of this battle approaching, and so could the blur of Sith he faced; in the Force, the shadow had become a pulsar of fear.

-- Taken from Revenge of the Sith

And Anakin alone has sub-light reaction levels:

Obi-Wan was already making that exact move as Anakin spoke. But they were inverted to each other: breaking right shot him one way while Anakin whipped the other. The tri-fighters' cannons ripped space between them, tracking faster than their starfighters could slip. His onboard threat display chimed a warning: two of the droids had remote sensor locks on him. The others must have lit up his partner. "Anakin! Slip-jaws!"
"My thought exactly."
They blew past the tri-fighters, looping in evasive spirals. The droid ships wrenched themselves into pursuit maneuvers that would have killed any living pilot. The slip-jaws maneuver was named for the scissorlike mandibles of the Kashyyyk slash-spider. Droids closing rapidly on their tails, cannonfire stitching space on all sides, the two Jedi pulled their ships through perfectly mirrored rolls that sent them streaking head-on for each other from opposite ends of a vast Republic cruiser. For merely human pilots, this would be suicide. By the time you can see your partner's starfighter streaking toward you at a respectable fraction of lightspeed, it's already too late for your merely human reflexes to react.
But these particular pilots were far from merely human.
The Force nudged hands on control yokes and the Jedi starfighters twisted and flashed past each other belly-to-belly, close enough to scorch each other's paint.

---Taken from the Revenge of the Sith

Credit Silver, and before you say it, yes, I know, somebody like Flash, Zoom, or Superman is still faster, but then there's always Essence Transfer.

#12 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio

So far, none of the teams proposed can win. The only one that could potentially stalemate is Henshaw, and that is only because of his essence within his cybernetic shell. However, Palpatine can control other beings' spirits; so the option is available for him to rip the Cyborg's soul from his body. The rest, Sidious can kill, mind control, or possess. And seriously, Deathstroke? LOL. 
 
Read about the characters involved in a thread or ask about them before passing a consensus. There shouldn't be nearly as much need for correction in threads like this. If you are ill-equipped to respond to the OP due to lack of knowledge, just ask for information, and another user would be more than happy to answer you. There is no shame in requesting info. That's what these threads are for.

#13 Posted by MorganFreeman (446 posts) - - Show Bio

Black Adam, Lobo, the Brainiac/Luthor combo from Justice League cartoon and Malefic might be able to scrape a good effort together. Care to weigh in on this @Silver2467?

#14 Posted by TotalBalance (742 posts) - - Show Bio

I know this is really knit-picky but could you please spell Allowed correctly.

my team:

Doomsday (death of Superman)

Amazo (Justice League cartoon)

Superboy-Prime

Darkseid

#15 Edited by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@MorganFreeman said:

Black Adam, Lobo, the Brainiac/Luthor combo from Justice League cartoon and Malefic might be able to scrape a good effort together. Care to weigh in on this @Silver2467?

Adam can be defeated through either telepathy or Drain. Teth's telepathic shields are not as impressive as is usually purported on this site. Usually, users reference WWIII to establish his resistances. What they fail to mention is that although J'onn failed to beat him in their initial encounter through TP, he succeeded in their second. The second time they fought, the Manhunter flooded Adam's mind with images of the dying Martian race to briefly incapacitate him for just a protracted enough period for Captain Marvel to summon a lightning bolt to depower Adam. And even in the first fight between J'onn and Teth, the Martian did immobilize Adam originally, and really, Adam's escape from the Martian's telepathy was more a result of intrinsic mental depravity and revulsion than inherent mental fortitude. So in return, J'onn's strategy was to afflict Adam's mind with comparably horrifying memories. I have also seen Beatboks post scans of Brainwave Jr. probing Adam's mind. While I do believe Adam's mind is telepathically insubordinate, I am not as convinced of its impenetrability as many others are. 
 
Palpatine has telepathically harmed Vader from across the galaxy, mind wiped millions of beings, torn information out of the minds of Jedi, probed Maul's mind, mind controlled nearly twenty billion beings, influenced Plagueis' mind, mind controlled Kam Solusar, induced fear/aggression into the minds of thousands of Jedi across the galaxy, implanted fear into the minds of Imperials, subjugated the wills of senatorial dissidents, subtlely altered Luke's mind, etc. I think his telepathic talents should suffice to breach Adam's mind, and even if not, Force Drain, which the Emperor has employed to siphon the life energies of over nineteen billion beings across a planet simultaneously, would compensate.
 
I have no idea what telepathic resistances Lobo might have, but Drain is still a viable tactic for dealing with him as far as I know. Regarding the conglomerate Brainiac/Luthor character, the skills I recall from him were controlling technology, digitizing matter, firing energy blasts of undetermined maximum output, fly at undetermined maximum speeds, and withstand blows from Flash who was circling the globe in a few seconds each cycle (though the exact force of impact from his punches is still somewhat ambiguous). Brainiac/Luthor has no prior knowledge of Palpatine, which should limit his capacity to formulate a technological duplicate of him to fight with as he did with the JL, his flight is of little consequence, and his energy blasts can be dodged. Honestly, Brainiac/Luthor exhibited no feats of speed or durability that I remember which would circumvent Sidious' speed and lightsaber. His blunt force resistance is fairly good, but nothing comes to memory that implicitly concludes he could withstand a couple hundred lightsaber blows delivered to him in a second and definitely not a wormhole. So at best, Sidious can slash Brainiac/Luthor apart before the latter realizes it happens, and at worst, Sidious can devour him with a Storm. However, it has been a while since I watched JLU; so there could be factors I forgot about.
 
Now, fighting Malefic is essentially equivalent to fighting a more ruthless but less powerful Martian Manhunter, sans telepathy (unless you intended to stipulate Malefic before his telepathy was impeded or immediately before his death since J'onn restored Malefic's telepathy so the former could die via fire exposure). A while back, I posted on a Sidious vs MM thread and outlined my opinion on how Palpatine and the Manhunter, both of whom are very versatile, would counteract one another's powers. I submitted a very expository post, which I have no interest in repeating here; so this is a summarized version: 
 
Malefic is stronger, but that benefits him little if he can never strike his opponent. Malefic can fly, but Palpatine possesses a variety of ranged and projectile capabilities. Malefic can render himself invisible, but Palpatine regardless can sense him through the Force (he once sensed an invisible ship, for instance). Malefic can render himself intangible, but that would fail to elude a siphoning of his fundamental life force. Malefic can fire heat vision, but Sidious can either evade the blast or brandish his lightsaber swiftly enough to coalesce a shield out of the blade (the feats of damaging property achieved by Martian vision does not lend itself to confidence on my part that it would be too forceful for a lightsaber blade to reflect). 
 
Malefic is more durable, but no Martians' durability showings tested against energy attacks lead me to believe he could shrug off numerous successive lightsaber strokes or an energy storm that has inflicted multi-teratons of destructive force and ripped the surfaces off planets. Their blunt force protection has been noticeably superior to their energy defense (and, no, I am not basing this on their weakness to fire). Malefic can shape shift, which he has evinced a proclivity for in his previous fights, but as I consider him susceptible to a lightsaber blade (not that I believe Sidious could slash him into segmented portions instantly but can still harm him), all this would accomplish is allow Palpatine to strike him with his blade when Malefic approaches. On the note of Martian healing, lightsabers, as I mentioned, incinerate matter. While Martians have recovered from minute fractions of their total body mass, usually this occurs after they were shredded by physical force, not energy effects. Energy attacks have proven capable of knocking Martians unconscious without scattering their bodies apart (of course, this requires an energy attack of considerable enough lethal power to hurt them, but even if the countless lightsaber blows Sidious can deliver in a short amount of time would be inefficient, a Force Storm would serve). 
 
Malefic is faster in flight, but Sidious is faster in combat. Martians have good combat speed feats, but aside from Zum, who Flash mused might have received special training in the combat applications of superhuman fighting speed, no Martian speed feats outweigh those of Palpatine (and even Zum is debatable, since his feat was mostly a travel speed feat, not a combat one), who has fought faster than characters with reaction time sufficient to deflect torrents of blaster fire, perceive ships flying at sublight speeds, dodge lightning bolts, and so on can even see. In fact, in a recently released story, Sidious attacked so fast than his enemy (who was Force sensitive and suphumanly fast) was not only incapable of seeing his blows, all he saw was countless lightsaber blades slashing at him at once. And honestly, I have no recollection of Malefic actually fighting very fast in any of his battles. Sidious' movement speed might trail behind Malefic's (who, as a Martian, can fly faster than light), but Palpatine's precog-enhanced reflexes and combat speed should outweigh Malefic's speed of the same categories. 
 
Without telepathy, Malefic was more vulnerable to telepathic intrusion. Aquaman explained to the JLA that where his telepathic awareness was always repelled by J'onn's mind, it was met with no such impregnability when he confronted Malefic; J'onn himself also invaded Malefic's mind in order to unspool the mental restraints in the latter's mind. It is possible that Sidious could affect him through that means as well. And if all else fails, there is again Drain, which I believe could work on everyone on your team barring Brainiac/Luthor (since he is partly/mostly machine). 
 
Obviously, Palpatine will be engaging all of them concurrently; so his best chance would be a wide-scale Drain (which he can unleash, as, again, he has Drained a planet before) or TP, for the members of your team that Drain and TP can affect. Either that, or he could conjure a Force Storm and destroy whom he can and react to the remaining as needed. But if nothing else, if your team kills Palpatine, he can possess one of them and fight the rest in that body. His will is potent enough to overpower the wills of billions of at once and tear rifts in time and space by sheer willpower. I doubt anyone on your team could outmatch him in a battle of wills, minus possibly Malefic since he possessed J'onn with only a portion of his soul still remaining, though whether that is indicative enough of his willpower is arguable (Brainiac/Luthor should be exempt from possession due to Brainiac's cybernetic body), but even if they could resist possession, your team lacks the means to actually eliminate Palpatine's Essence. So at best, this is a stalemate.
#16 Edited by Quartermaim (617 posts) - - Show Bio

I find this hard with being below Zoom's level but I will give it a try:

Despero (Is he below Zoom level?)

Amazo (Is he below Zoom level?)

Kang (Could deal with some of the attacks but can't keep up speed wise)

[Slot Pending]

Honestly I can't see anyone below Zoom level that can deal with the destruction of Palpatine's essence? Since Batman 1 M is out I can't think of anyone else. @Silver2467: any suggestions?

#17 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't even use Marvel Villains here?

#18 Posted by MonsterStomp (20534 posts) - - Show Bio

Amazo

Black Adam

Lobo

Darkseid

Online
#19 Posted by Chaos Prime (10857 posts) - - Show Bio
#20 Posted by coolguyr99 (3019 posts) - - Show Bio

Zoom

Fernus

Sinestro

Cyborg Superman

#21 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Quartermaim said:

I find this hard with being below Zoom's level but I will give it a try:

Despero (Is he below Zoom level?)

Amazo (Is he below Zoom level?)

Kang (Could deal with some of the attacks but can't keep up speed wise)

[Slot Pending]

Honestly I can't see anyone below Zoom level that can deal with the destruction of Palpatine's essence? Since Batman 1 M is out I can't think of anyone else. @Silver2467: any suggestions?

Kang, I can offer no comment on; my knowledge of him is limited. Amazo, his impact on the fight would depend on which incarnation you were using. Despero is an interesting contender though. 
 
To consider Despero's various powers, you can more or less attribute the powers he shares with Malefic in respects to Palpatine here. His strength, speed, durability, flight, energy blasts, etc. would likely be met with a similar effect. However, TK and TP is where this becomes complicated. I would consider Despero a more powerful telekinetic and telepath than Palpatine. Despero has harmed Kryptonians with his telekinesis before, and his telepathy has overpowered Martian Manhunter. So he could win by TK at least. Now, for TP, in the Palpatine vs Martian Manhunter thread I posted in months ago, I analyzed the topic of TP between the two and whether or not the Manhunter could telepathically affect Palpatine. J'onn, or in this case Despero, has invaded the minds of more potent minds than the Emperor's, but this being questionable on my part stems from the nature of Palpatine's being. 
 
Sidious is a Sith Essence at his core. He is an energy being and lives less as flesh and blood as simply inhabits flesh and blood. His corporeal self is nothing more than a conduit for his power, which is ethereal. Why this is important is that Sith spirits can only be repelled or assailed in a few ways as delineated in sourcebooks. One is to overwhelm the spirit with light side energies which evaporates the spirit's power to remain in the physical realm, one is to overwhelm the spirit with dark side energies which evaporates the spirit's power to remain in the physical realm, and one is to directly dominate the spirit by a Force technique that can manipulate spirits. Otherwise, Sith Essences are immaterial, intangible, sometimes invisible (at their own discretion), and otherwise invulnerable. The problem here is, can Palpatine be affected by telepathy? Sith spirits are not accessible by that means; does that mean Palpatine, even in his body, would not be susceptible to it either? 
 
Through his history, Sidious has only been subjected to telepathy from Plagueis, and this was early in Sidious' training after Sidious himself lowered his telepathic shields. With his mental barriers intact, Plagueis' telepathy was inadequate to pierce Sidious' mind. On other occasions, Shaak Ti and Vima Da Boda had equal failure in breaching Palpatine's mind and thoughts. However, simply because his mental screening has no confirmed limits is not equatable to there being no limits. But can Palpatine's mind be affected if his mind is wrapped up in the status of his Essence? This really is the issue here. Sidious' telepathic resistances are not important, because those would recede against Despero's telepathy. The issue is, is Palpatine's spirit amalgamated with his body to an extent that his mind can be affected or not? This is the question. In my opinion, it would be dubious that it is. A Sith spirit transcending powers of telepathic nature and Palpatine's body not being so much infused with his Essence as much as it is a temporary and incomplete housing place for it, I question whether he is vulnerable to telepathic powers. His body really is only a repository for his power, not an integral or mandatory facet of it. It is true that the Emperor's powers are paralyzed without a physical vessel, but his physical vessel is still only the channel through which his power proceeds, not an origin for his power. 
 
The question you basically need to answer is, do you believe Palpatine is vulnerable to telepathy while still located in his body or not? If Despero or one of the other members of your team kills Palpatine and his spirit emerges from his corpse, then I would say with more certitude that telepathy would no longer be an option, but while Palpatine dwells in a physical host, do you consider him susceptible? I will leave that up to you. Personally, I would not be dogmatic about it. There really are no clearly defined answers on this one way or another. This is mostly assumption on what could work and extrapolation on what might not. If you do believe Despero's telepathy would affect Palpatine, then I believe your team would win. Despero's TP should supersede Sidious' by a comfortable margin. If not, your team would probably stalemate him. The intricacies of this are still nebulous though.
#22 Posted by Saren (25117 posts) - - Show Bio

Fernus might be a good bet. He was only ever susceptible to physical defeat after Martian Manhunter pulled himself out of his body and John Stewart hit him with a tidal wave to douse his flames; prior to that he stitched himself back together without comment in a matter of seconds after Superman tore him to pieces by flying through him. In terms of telepathic prowess, I'd personally place the Burning above Palpatine.

Sidious is a bad fight for Henshaw, the Cyborg is susceptible to both telepathic assault as well as soul entrapment. Both have been used against him before (telepathy by the Tribunal and soul capture by Darkseid) successfully.

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#23 Posted by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@CitizenBane said:

Fernus might be a good bet. He was only ever susceptible to physical defeat after Martian Manhunter pulled himself out of his body and John Stewart hit him with a tidal wave to douse his flames; prior to that he stitched himself back together without comment in a matter of seconds after Superman tore him to pieces by flying through him. In terms of telepathic prowess, I'd personally place the Burning above Palpatine.

That would make sense. I wonder though, just for discussion's sake, how a lightsaber blade would affect Fernus. While Fernus might be pyrokinetic and while his body radiates flames, which should render him immune to heat, contrary to popular belief a lightsaber's cutting power is not solely a result of heat, and lightsabers have pierced the armor of fireworms, which live their entire lives in pools of lava (and can also spew lava out of their mouths). A lightsaber does produce heat but only when its blade comes into contact with solid matter, and heat is more of a secondary constituent to its overall energy properties. While I think we can say that Fernus would be immune to the heat of the blade, I wonder how its other energy qualities would affect Fernus. That being said, I think the inability of the heat of the blade to weaken Fernus would decrease its slicing power, but as I mentioned, fireworm exoskeletons are more or less immune to heat as well but were still sliced by lightsabers. Of course Fernus can simply become intangible; so this would be irrelevant in the long run. But again, this is just a conversational matter.
#24 Posted by jwalser3 (5279 posts) - - Show Bio

I can't believe how many people underestimate Sidious.

Cybrog Superman

Amazo(with the right powers absorbed)

Grodd(I don't know)

H'el

#25 Posted by Owie (3964 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467: What do you think about Zoom though, at least in so far as killing his body goes?  He should be able to move faster than Sidious can think, so he should be able to kill Sidious's body before he can drain or possess him.  Of course, as you pointed out, he could just live on as a spirit and then possess him afterwards.
 
Seems to me this team needs characters that are of Superman/Flash-level speed, but who are also robots or some such thing that has no life-force to possess/drain, and who can also in some way defeat Sidious' spirit-self.  I have no idea who fits that bill.  Each character has to at least fit the no-mind/life-force quality so they can't be possessed and used against the others.  I think it's possible that a superior telepathy might beat Sidious while in his body, but once as a separate spirit I don't know; and in any case he could theoretically drain a more-powerful telepath during their telepathic battle, which would surely not be instantaneous.  Magic might be the best shot at defeating his spirit-self, and how many magic-using robots there are out there, I don't know.  Not too many, I would imagine!
#26 Posted by SoA (5249 posts) - - Show Bio
GLC Cover
Osiris's Pain
Art by Andie Tong.
#27 Edited by Silver2467 (16387 posts) - - Show Bio
@Owie said:

@Silver2467: What do you think about Zoom though, at least in so far as killing his body goes?  He should be able to move faster than Sidious can think, so he should be able to kill Sidious's body before he can drain or possess him.  Of course, as you pointed out, he could just live on as a spirit and then possess him afterwards.

Oh, of course. Zoom or Professor Zoom could kill Palpatine with one hit before he could register their attack. From there, if you could find a mystical character who could warp reality (not to an absurd power level though, because he needs to be below Zoom's level, just moderate, standard magical reality warping abilities), that mystic could probably eliminate Palpatine's spirit by essentially disregarding the nature of Sidious' source of power and wiping him from existence. If BFR was allowed, Professor Zoom could beat Palpatine on his own by tossing him in another timeline before the latter can react. Mirror Master could also BFR him into another dimension. Also, if you consider Sidious susceptible to telepathy, all you need is a more powerful telepath (Despero or Fernus have been good suggestions so far) and a way to ensure that they attack first, since there is a possibility, slight as it may be for a majority, that Palpatine could Drain their life to kill them the instant the fight starts.
 
Aside from speedsters or telepaths, you could also develop a team of characters such as Captain Cold to neutralize Palpatine's speed; a telepath of repute to neutralize Palpatine's telepathy (maybe Brainwave, for instance); a character either durable enough to withstand Palpatine's most destructive powers or otherwise outside the influence of his most destructive powers who can return an attack that could kill him instantly (a version of Amazo such as the one from JLA vol. 3 would fit the former designation; Mirror Master could fit the second); and/or a character with substantial enough magical powers to warp Palpatine's Essence. If you can find a mystic who can accomplish all of the above, then that would be even better.
#28 Posted by Owie (3964 posts) - - Show Bio
@Silver2467 said:
@Owie said:

@Silver2467: What do you think about Zoom though, at least in so far as killing his body goes?  He should be able to move faster than Sidious can think, so he should be able to kill Sidious's body before he can drain or possess him.  Of course, as you pointed out, he could just live on as a spirit and then possess him afterwards.

Oh, of course. Zoom or Professor Zoom could kill Palpatine with one hit before he could register their attack. From there, if you could find a mystical character who could warp reality (not to an absurd power level though, because he needs to be below Zoom's level, just moderate, standard magical reality warping abilities), that mystic could probably eliminate Palpatine's spirit by essentially disregarding the nature of Sidious' source of power and wiping him from existence. If BFR was allowed, Professor Zoom could beat Palpatine on his own by tossing him in another timeline before the latter can react. Mirror Master could also BFR him into another dimension. Also, if you consider Sidious susceptible to telepathy, all you need is a more powerful telepath (Despero or Fernus have been good suggestions so far) and a way to ensure that they attack first, since there is a possibility, slight as it may be for a majority, that Palpatine could Drain their life to kill them the instant the fight starts. Aside from speedsters or telepaths, you could also develop a team of characters such as Captain Cold to neutralize Palpatine's speed; a telepath of repute to neutralize Palpatine's telepathy (maybe Brainwave, for instance); a character either durable enough to withstand Palpatine's most destructive powers or otherwise outside the influence of his most destructive powers who can return an attack that could kill him instantly (a version of Amazo such as the one from JLA vol. 3 would fit the former designation; Mirror Master could fit the second); and/or a character with substantial enough magical powers to warp Palpatine's Essence. If you can find a mystic who can accomplish all of the above, then that would be even better.
Thanks.  Interesting to hear your take on what would work.