@kaang_the_watcher: Debatable but lets wait on that since I'm in an argument with beatbox right now.
Dedman's Create-A-Tourney 4: Scenario Edition
@dane said:
Bad choices.
1) My intention is to kill/ko you, and I have a couple ways of doing that
Cool. I would imagine everyone here has a couple of ways of taking down an enemy. Either way, my Aura Sense tells me what you're going to do before you act (intention-wise).
Can I get some scans of this "Aura Sense" I'm not familiar with it, and even if you know
Here he can sense Invisible Woman's constructs by feeling the disturbance in the air around them. Someone drawing a gun isn't going to escape his notice. Fair Enough, not sure how that applies here though
Basically means you can't get the drop on me. I'd say it's fairly applicable since your intention was a sneak attack.
He also barely dodged it, and considering that Sue is peak human, that's in some ways a low showing.
2) A bullet timer, yes, but Bullseye's aim is a little harder to dodge
Disagree.
Agree to disagree
And just so you don't say something like "there's a big battle going you, you're distracted 5eva" here he is fighting Wolverine and doesn't get surprised by Nightcrawler bamf'ing in behind him. His kung fu is just too strong for that. Then he's all 'get that weak sh#t outta here Colossus'. Danny's cool like that. Fair enough, go ahead and punch me, you may have different results
I might not either, if your gameplan is to stand there soaking damage, feel free. You also have to prove that you're more durable than Colossus. Not that easy to do. Your video says Edward Elric broke his arm by punching Greed and you're that durable, omg. Tell me, what would happen if Edward Elric punched Colossus?
My gameplan is to dodge, but if I get hit by anything other than the Iron Fist, it won't even faze me.
3) With the power of Shao-Lao the Undying, he can stop bullets with his bare hands. This one is from a high-powered rifle, so I doubt a revolver regardless of caliber is going to make a difference.
Fair enough again, though isn't the "Power of Shao Lao", the Iron Fist?
Yes, it is. Which I have.
4) Worse still, Iron Fist can swat them back at you, this time charged with chi for penetration. So unless you have some adamantium armor, it's actually a much bigger risk for you than it is for me. Not quite, I have an Ultimate Shield, it turns the carbon molecules in my skin to the same durability as diamonds (only the skin), and considering you don't have alchemy, you aren't getting through it anytime soon.
I'd argue that chi-enhanced bullets would still penetrate. As I'll show in scans later, Danny's chi can cut some pretty impressive armor to ribbons. But in other news, Emma Frost tried the same bonehead play of tanking damage with diamond skin a few times. Long story short, she got wrecked by people with a lot less power than the characters in this thread. If your skin is like diamonds, then you're forgetting all diamonds have a flaw and some people have weakness detection by powers or skills.
Diamonds have flaws, the Ultimate shield does not, it's a solid shield of superdense carbon molecules, and like I said previously, the Shield only covers the skin, so it wouldn't shatter me, it may break the shell though
The Ultimate Shield is strong enough, that when Ed punched it, most of his arm broke and Greed didn't flinch.
Edward Elric isn't my character. He doesn't even have enhanced physicals off memory. I could similarly say that a regular person punching Spider-Man would break his hand and I wouldn't be wrong. Doesn't mean Spider-Man is invincible.
So if you will be punching me, I can tank it, and if I really feel like it, I'll dodge it with Wesker's speed
So you'll tank it or if it's an attack that would damage you (which you can't know until after you've been hit) you'll dodge it? It's like you have a Schrodinger's box that produces two cats and you pick which one you like best after opening the box. Awesome debating. Practically brimming with logic.
I'll dodge if I can, but I can take your hits if necessary. That's logic for you.
Capable of dodging their bullets so fast it looks like he is teleporting. On top of that he easily redirects their attempts at CQC and shows some impressive strength tossing them around, but mostly, when you come to punch me, you'll be hitting empty air, and then I might bust out some of my Batman level martial arts on you, along with my enhanced strength and claws (from the US). So if you don't really like superhuman attacks, you may want to back up.
Yeah, that's awesome. The thing about Resident Evil you have to remember, is that Wesker is only powerful compared to the regular SWAT/Paramilitary soldiers he fights. All of his enemies are below Olympic level physically. So not even peak human and he still seems to struggle to beat them (and dies horribly in a volcano). To put it in context, he's impressive compared to trash, not compared to other high-end characters.
Chris is definitely above Olympian, I would say above peak, considering he tears monsters in half and Ogreman's 100-200 lb heart out of his back. They also are bullet timers, considering Chris moves through chaingun fire without being hit, like someone we know (right, Batman vs Wrath fight)
Loading Video...
What we see in the Resident Evil cutscenes isn't actually what's happening. We see it through Chris and Jill's filter, their perception, and they see in slow motion. So, according to two of the most skilled agents their planet has to offer, Wesker's speed is inhuman. The man blitzes through bullets without effort, standing on one side of the room and appearing on the opposite instantly without even changing stances. He literally outruns explosions, you are a bullet timer, but Wesker has already blitzed those.
On the other side of the coin, I'm not sure why Batman's martial arts are supposed to impress me. They're below Danny's by an order of magnitude at least. Bruce Wayne is an excellent skill choice because of his overall balance and intelligence in addition to fighting skill (that's why Bruce and T'Challa are always expensive in these things, very few character have intelligence and martial skill). But Danny is pure beast. In terms of raw fighting skill there are only a couple of characters that come close (outside Karate Kid and some other nonsensical crap) and even those I'd argue seriously against.
That's highly arguable, I would say that Danny is more skilled, but not by a "magnitude" whatever that is supposed to be
So here are my problems with your argument for Wesker:
1) Dodging bullets at close range is something any comic-book street leveler can do. It's not indicative of a high level of power or speed in the context we're talking. Even Cap moves fast enough to make bullets seem like they're in slow motion. My character is really far above Cap. Like I said, it's impressive compared to a normal human. It's not impressive with the kinds of characters we're using here.
Dodging them while they are already in the air is, IF stopped one because he knew where it was going before it was fired.
2) Moving so fast that regular people can't see them is something Captain America and Wolverine have both done. Constantine Drakon regularly moves too fast for people to see. All of these characters are peak human in speed.
. 'Moves so fast he looks like he teleports' is a relative term. Relative to trash several orders of magnitude below me. Get in the game.
He literally moves faster than the bullet when it's millimeters away, you can't refute that.
Loading Video...
Hell, in this he jumps a good 10 feet across the room, I can avoid your attacks, unless you are hitting faster than bullets consistently and rapidly, and Danny's best feat is moving fast enough to catch a bullet in his hands.
In fact, with my ultimate shield activated, I'll pull something out of my rucksack at superhuman speed and hide it in my trench coat while you're running towards me so you can't see it nor predict it. So the guess is yours, come find out?
To quote Bilbo Baggins "What's in my pocket?"
Since I've debunked the idea that you're faster than me and I've already shown my greatly enhanced senses, I'm not sure where you get the idea that you could do this without me noticing. Either way, I hope it's something pretty great in your pocket and worth tanking a punch that will probably shatter you.
Actually, you haven't debunked that at all, you may catch bullets, but its catching a bullet when you know there is a shooter, and you know where they are aiming, anyone could put their hand out, Danny could just catch it. In my pocket is a frag grenade, I've already pulled the pin, so deal with it how you may
Let's take a look at why Iron Fist can take down someone with the speed/strength of Wesker and enhanced durability:
Danny's weakness detection and exploitation is pretty damn good.
Not as good as Karnaks, which I have, so I'll be able to identify my own and your weakpoints faster.
(the dude destroys a giant that could absorb kinetic energy, it's pretty tight)
He also states when fighting the giant, that he wouldn't be able to do much if he didn't have an Achilles tendon, then he blindly swings at what is essentially the size of a barn door,
He took down Iron Man, who I'd argue is many times stronger and at least as durable as your character. Probably faster too in truth. Even Classic Danny was a beast.
Stronger- Yes
More Durable- Not then
Faster- travel yes, combat no
Beat the ass out of this guy named Warhawk (look him up), superhuman physicals and granite-like skin. Sound familiar?
I also notice that his fist doesn't go through Warhawk, who has lesser durability, so you won't be doing anything more than blunt damage, which I'm relatively immune to. (Let me explain)
I have a Bleed Artifact, which allows me immunity to pain, the ability to transfer the pain I feel, and a healing factor. So when you hit me, I'll be hurt, it might even break my shield, but I won't feel it, and the next time you punch me, you will feel exactly what I would have felt. So your Iron Fist, which is blunt damage against my Ultimate Shield, will do essentially nothing in the long run as I won't feel it, so I can't be KO'ed by it.
So the next time you touch me, you'll feel the pain of your previous strike, and I can touch you.
Punches the face off the Iron Fist killer, if you're unfamiliar with that character then look him up. He was literally made to kill Iron Fists (the name gives it away a bit).
Doesn't seem to be superhumanly durable, especially not diamond hard.
Has fought legitimate speedsters and won. So... *plays foghorn* ...Albert Wesker trump card not so good.
The thing about many speedsters, especially Marvel ones, is that they have relatively little gauge on their actual speed. Also, they tend to be very predictable, because they think they are untouchable, and have no h2h skill unlike my character, who on top of being superhuman in all regards, is also one of the most skilled h2h combatants in fiction.
Had no trouble against Luke Cage (who Daredevil broke his hand punching).
In part because Cage was his best friend, whom he helped train, knew his weakpoints, etc.
And finally, Danny can use his Chi to break through vibranium which is generally considered to be below Adamantium/Carbonadium in durability, but considerably above other earthly materials like compressed carbon/diamond.
I can reform the Ultimate Shield after being struck, if you manage to hit me, Because I'm not like a very tired Black Panther, I can dodge your hits, unless you continually hit faster than bullets. Also, He cracked the armor, but his punches did not go through it, instead the force fractured it. Because of my handy dandy Bleed Artifact, I can
You've also neglected to mention that he is bloodlusted when he kill IFK and is being mind controlled when he wrecks BP, unless your morals are set like this, you won't do that off the bat
I really liked your use of youtube clips though, I've always felt they do a lot for a post. I have one for you here.
I liked your use of scans, very straightforward here's my return video right here
Can I get some scans of this "Aura Sense" I'm not familiar with it, and even if you know
Gallery
He also barely dodged it, and considering that Sue is peak human, that's in some ways a low showing.
Sue Storm? Who fights Galactus, Thanos, etc every other week... What?
Here's Sue Storm busting through a Celestial's Armor. Please don't disrespect her constructs.
Gallery
The point being he was able to sense an invisible object based on how it affected air currents. Nothing you're saying refutes the demonstration of his senses being greatly enhanced.
Agree to disagree
Here's some sub-par debating and let me break this down for you; there is no agreeing to disagree here. This isn't a thing where we just accept we have differing viewpoints. This is a fight to the death.
Also, when you say agree to disagree, you're completely conceding the point to me. You can't argue the point because you have lost it. Offering a tie is worthless. I already won.
It's like this:
You: Here is my point of view.
Me: Here is why that view is incorrect, backed up with logic and demonstrable evidence that makes your point invalid.
You: Let's call it a draw.
Let's not call it a draw. I won that point. Your aim isn't worth sh#t and you know it.
My gameplan is to dodge, but if I get hit by anything other than the Iron Fist, it won't even faze me.
Your game plan is to make it up as you go and it's failing horribly. This doesn't even make sense. I have Danny's powers and skills. Yes, if anything other than the Iron Fist hits you, you won't be hurt. Because nothing else will hit you because that's the thing I'm attacking you with.
What the hell else am I going to hit you with? A freshly caught salmon from Alaska which I'll just pick up in the 5 feet I have to walk to otherwise punch your face inside out? Yes, I'm hitting you with the Iron Fist. Yes, it's going to hurt.
Diamonds have flaws, the Ultimate shield does not, it's a solid shield of superdense carbon molecules, and like I said previously, the Shield only covers the skin, so it wouldn't shatter me, it may break the shell though
Let's do some chemistry baby.
Source: Wikipedia
So if you've got carbon for skin, this graph shows your options. If we're talking pure carbon and it's solid you've got either diamonds or graphite on your face. Diamond is the hardest naturally occurring substance, but still not the hardest in existence and certainly not as hard as comic book mystical/space metals which Danny has shredded in the past. Given the colour I'm inclined to say graphite. If you have some other metals mixed in with that you might have coal. Either way, graphite is the stuff in pencils and if you've ever broken a pencil you can tell for yourself it actually isn't very resistant to stress or pressure. Basically, it breaks real easy. Extra elements and minerals might strengthen it, but if it's predominantly still carbon at best you have coal. Now coal skin isn't going to help you very much either.
So you will be shattered, just whether it's into tiny pieces or you just have your head knocked clean off your shoulders is the question here.
I'll dodge if I can, but I can take your hits if necessary. That's logic for you.
I've already told you why you can't dodge so your only option left is to get punched in the face until you die. Probably on the first go if my scans are anything to judge by.
Chris is definitely above Olympian, I would say above peak, considering he tears monsters in half and Ogreman's 100-200 lb heart out of his back. They also are bullet timers, considering Chris moves through chaingun fire without being hit, like someone we know (right, Batman vs Wrath fight)
I'd have to disagree completely. Here's why: Chris Redfield is a regular soldier who hasn't been enhanced in any way. I can give you scans of virtually any street leveler you want dodging machine gun fire. Is Green Arrow peak? Is Robin? Is Batgirl? Huntress? pick one.
Peak Human is benchpressing 800-1000lbs like Captain America and moving so fast people can't see you (already shown with scans) - show me Chris Redfield doing that.
I'm unfamiliar with the Ogreman feat, despite playing about 8 Resident Evil games myself. So if you want to post that I'll judge from there.
What we see in the Resident Evil cutscenes isn't actually what's happening. We see it through Chris and Jill's filter, their perception, and they see in slow motion. So, according to two of the most skilled agents their planet has to offer, Wesker's speed is inhuman. The man blitzes through bullets without effort, standing on one side of the room and appearing on the opposite instantly without even changing stances. He literally outruns explosions, you are a bullet timer, but Wesker has already blitzed those.
Yeah, I'm not buying that for a second. Chris and Jill can slow down time? get real. The game slows down the same way cameras in hong kong action flicks slow down, for dramatic effect. That video you posted? Dude just did a backflip. Cool and all, but that doesn't make him Peak Human. Doesn't even make him Olympic level.
Let's get another thing straight, Albert Wesker does not outrun bullets. You already posted the videos and people can see for themselves: he is dodging to the side when people shoot at him. The same thing any street leveler could do. He is not outrunning a bullet in a foot race. He's getting out of the way. Give me a video of Wesker outrunning an explosion too btw. Everything I've seen of him so far shows me that he is probably at Captain America level, maybe a bit above (and I love Albert Wesker). He's a great character but he doesn't compare to borderline mid-tier characters like Iron Fist.
That's highly arguable, I would say that Danny is more skilled, but not by a "magnitude" whatever that is supposed to be
And we're having an argument. Saying it's arguable is garbage. Argue the point if you've got one. I have hundreds of Bruce Wayne scans, I know what he can do and I know what Danny can do. I say Daniel Rand is demonstrably better. He's above him if the word magnitude doesn't do anything for you. If you want to refute that claim, go ahead and refute it. If not, accept that you would lose a fist fight (which we're having) and don't bother addressing it again.
Dodging them while they are already in the air is, IF stopped one because he knew where it was going before it was fired.
I'm not sure if you selectively looked at scans but let's just take a look at what we're looking at here. Apart from the fact that a high powered rifle round is going faster than any handgun ever could and that he caught it while the guy was shooting from behind him (whaaaat), here is Danny dodging bullets. If you can look at these scans and say 'he can only dodge one bullet if he knows it's coming' then I don't know what I can add to the conversation. Let's check out Danny dodging stuff:
Gallery
Hell, in this he jumps a good 10 feet across the room, I can avoid your attacks, unless you are hitting faster than bullets consistently and rapidly, and Danny's best feat is moving fast enough to catch a bullet in his hands.
That really isn't his best speed feat. If the scans above aren't enough, let me know. I have more of Danny speed blitzing people.
Also, as I showed earlier, everything you're showing Wesker doing is stuff that Captain America and Wolverine do all the time. Both are peak human. Deal with it.
Actually, you haven't debunked that at all, you may catch bullets, but its catching a bullet when you know there is a shooter, and you know where they are aiming, anyone could put their hand out, Danny could just catch it. In my pocket is a frag grenade, I've already pulled the pin, so deal with it how you may
See the post about bullet dodging as far as dodging your revolver shots go (can't believe you're still arguing that).
As far as the grenade goes, as it so happens one of Danny's specialties is energy absorption. He has survived much greater explosions at point blank range. If you're going to explode a grenade in your hand, let 'er rip bub because I know which one of us will come off worse. Do you even have body armor? Good luck with the Bleed Artifact putting you back together when you're a pair of smoking shoes.
He's some scans of Danny in action against explosions:
Gallery
Now to address a point that will likely come up since I've posted the infamous 'train punch': It's arguable as to whether or not Danny was "upgraded" in Matt Fraction's run in a way that does not apply in this thread. In fact, I think there is considerable logical evidence suggesting anything in Fraction's run would be permissible in this thread. However, that's completely irrelevant since the fact remains that if I have even a fraction of that power, a grenade is going to be completely meaningless to me. Additionally, all of the other Classic Iron Fist scans suggest Danny has never had difficulty surviving explosions. Nitro, the character in the 2nd and 3rd scans was able to destroy a building with his powers. Danny is practically unscathed following a point blank explosion. Frag grenades are not a trump card, they're more harm than good to you here.
Not as good as Karnaks, which I have, so I'll be able to identify my own and your weakpoints faster.
Admittedly, Karnak's weakpoint detection power is greater than Danny's, if only by a bit. Unfortunately, that's worthless in this fight. Danny has the same pressure points and joints as any other human being. Even real world martial artists have extensive knowledge of and practice in exploiting these weak points. Someone like Bruce Wayne or Danny Rand? effortless in their execution of pressure point strikes. There is no benefit to having this power when you already have Bruce's h2h skill and you're fighting a person. It's worthless.
He also states when fighting the giant, that he wouldn't be able to do much if he didn't have an Achilles tendon, then he blindly swings at what is essentially the size of a barn door,
I'm not sure if you read the scan or just didn't understand what was going on. He was overloading the giant with chi energy so that it would grow to an incredible point, then he used it's size and mass against it by severing it's leg. He's exploiting the creature's weakness to bring it down. Not sure if you can read that some other way. At any rate he cuts a giant's leg in half with the flat side of his hand using chi manipulation. It's moderately impressive.
Stronger- Yes
More Durable- Not then
Faster- travel yes, combat no
Good luck proving that you're more durable and faster than Iron Man. Even I wouldn't go in for that argument.
I also notice that his fist doesn't go through Warhawk, who has lesser durability, so you won't be doing anything more than blunt damage, which I'm relatively immune to. (Let me explain)
I'd rather like to see you prove that you're more durable than Warhawk.
I have a Bleed Artifact, which allows me immunity to pain, the ability to transfer the pain I feel, and a healing factor. So when you hit me, I'll be hurt, it might even break my shield, but I won't feel it, and the next time you punch me, you will feel exactly what I would have felt. So your Iron Fist, which is blunt damage against my Ultimate Shield, will do essentially nothing in the long run as I won't feel it, so I can't be KO'ed by it.
So the next time you touch me, you'll feel the pain of your previous strike, and I can touch you.
Already proved your 'Ultimate Shield' isn't worth much. When you fail to argue adequately for it at the start of the post, then pretend it's a foregone conclusion at the end it seems a bit off to me.
Second point, and here's the big kicker: I also have a Bleed Artifact. So you can't transfer your pain to me. I can't feel it either. For you though: Even if you can't feel the pain from it, me punching your brain out the back of your head is still going to kill you. If you check out the scans with Holden Carver: It doesn't prevent him from getting hurt. His face is still smashed up. It won't stop what's coming.
Doesn't seem to be superhumanly durable, especially not diamond hard.
Actually the Iron Fist Killer was strong and durable enough to make Luke Cage and other Immortal Weapons look like children. I'll cook up some scans if you doubt it.
The thing about many speedsters, especially Marvel ones, is that they have relatively little gauge on their actual speed. Also, they tend to be very predictable, because they think they are untouchable, and have no h2h skill unlike my character, who on top of being superhuman in all regards, is also one of the most skilled h2h combatants in fiction.
Difficult point to prove since it's from a 20 year old book. Either way the character moved like a blur and Danny had no trouble hitting him. Also, please prove your points because you present them as fact, it's a bit weak to just reiterate a statement you can't prove.
In part because Cage was his best friend, whom he helped train, knew his weakpoints, etc.
Yeah, so I don't see him hitting any weak points, he's just smacking him in the face really hard. Speaking of points, you missed mine. The point was Danny can hurt highly durable characters like Luke Cage without any difficulty.
I can reform the Ultimate Shield after being struck, if you manage to hit me, Because I'm not like a very tired Black Panther, I can dodge your hits, unless you continually hit faster than bullets. Also, He cracked the armor, but his punches did not go through it, instead the force fractured it. Because of my handy dandy Bleed Artifact, I can
Not sure on the point being made here, you have half a sentence at the end. But either way, I've already shown Danny taking down superhumanly durable characters like Luke Cage, Colossus, etc. Singling out the Black Panther fight and failing to address the others doesn't give you a strong position. It looks like most of your arguments do, you're trying to pick and choose what you accept and what you don't. The people reading the debate and Dedman especially won't fail to notice that I've given evidence or made a point just because you ignore it later and make arguments as if it never happened.
Here's some more scans of Danny up against durable opponents in case there is still some question as to whether or not I can hurt you:
Knocks out Hercules with one punch:
Takes down the Wrecking Crew (breaks Wrecker's Wrecking Ball with a punch, which has stood up to Mjolnir iirc):
Stops a truck flat:
Pimp smacks The Thing:
Shatters The Scorpion's Tail:
You've also neglected to mention that he is bloodlusted when he kill IFK and is being mind controlled when he wrecks BP, unless your morals are set like this, you won't do that off the bat
'Bloodlusted' implies I have an artificially altered set of morals outside my established moral code. It works with established characters. These Create-A-Heroes mean I personally get the powers. Who knows how mad I'll get when someone tries to shoot me in the back of the head? I've never been shot at before. Might be a whole new experience for me. No way of telling how a man might react to live combat or his life in very real danger. Could get the adrenaline pumping. Might make me want to put you down hard and fast. I'd say it's actually reasonably likely that I would react that way. But at the same time, again you're ignoring all the other victories of his I showed and isolating one or two where his morals where stretched to their limit. It's not particularly worthwhile because Danny was never afraid of hurting a bad guy and I'm not even Danny.
I liked your use of scans, very straightforward here's my return video right here
Enjoy the tunes.
Log in to comment