Debating Rage- What rustles your jimmies?

Oh and another pet peeve of mine- People Overrating Kratos and Dr Manhattan.

@Vance Astro said:

What russles my jimmies?

1.Users who provoke others and then demand the mods to clean up their mess

2.Users who break the rules but then have excuses as to why they are doing it.

3.When I come in a thread that isn't a mismatch and nobody is making a case, they are just giving a one word answer and leaving.

4.When A user feels the need to say "that's your opinion" when it's obvious that's what you're giving.

5.When users try to "agree to disagree" when they don't have an argument instead of just admitting they're wrong.

6.Users who say alot of words and most of it is irrelevant.

7.Misrepresentation of scans

8.Meme & Demotivational images used to insult people

9.People who think it's their right to call out fanboys or trolls when in reality they just become part of the problem.

10.Hypocrisy

This.

@Esquire said:

• People saying "It's just comics" as an excuse for a poor argument.
• People insulting other users and saying they "have no life" and things of that nature because the user knows more about a character than the insulter does.
• People who make an argument, get it soundly debunked, then still go on to make the same argument in a different thread two hours later.
• Lack of punctuation.
• People who spam a list of single scans to discredit a character when most, if not all, of them are out of context or not even canon.
• People yelling "I win" or "you lost. Go away." in the middle of a debate, as if that's a distinction that they get to make.
• Ad hominem attacks. There is no excuse. Not a single one.
• Overuse of "PIS."
• People who read a large post, address one of its many points, then claim that they proved the whole thing invalid.

And so many more things...

I, too, hated Alyssabird and Charlie_Jade's posts.

Trolls, definitely one of them. Another is rants that are irrelevant and not relating to the battle or the specific character's feats/scans. Last, but definitely not least is naive debating. I really get annoyed when troll(s) come into your battle discussion and start talking jibberish having complete lack of knowledge on the character they're justifying. Another exemplification is when a fanboy of a specific character goes on ranting with just opinions of the outcome of the battle rather than the facts of their abilities, feats, weaknesses, and so forth with no valid context nor scans. These three would have to be my top jimmies while debating on the battle forums for sure.

@Dredeuced said:

@Esquire said:

• People saying "It's just comics" as an excuse for a poor argument.
• People insulting other users and saying they "have no life" and things of that nature because the user knows more about a character than the insulter does.
• People who make an argument, get it soundly debunked, then still go on to make the same argument in a different thread two hours later.
• Lack of punctuation.
• People who spam a list of single scans to discredit a character when most, if not all, of them are out of context or not even canon.
• People yelling "I win" or "you lost. Go away." in the middle of a debate, as if that's a distinction that they get to make.
• Ad hominem attacks. There is no excuse. Not a single one.
• Overuse of "PIS."
• People who read a large post, address one of its many points, then claim that they proved the whole thing invalid.

And so many more things...

I, too, hated Alyssabird and Charlie_Jade's posts.

Gah, Alyssabird was the worst. She did pretty much all of that. There are still far too many users around who do things like that, though, even with her gone.

Oh, and when people go into unrelated threads and post "Batman wins." or "Batman solos with prep." That stopped being funny before people had even started doing it.

People who put "LOL" as a response to something that was not said to be funny. Laughing at someones argument does not make you look more intelligent it makes you look childish if anything.

Vance Astro's mother. Heyoooo.

-When someone comes on a battle thread that obviously isn't spite (nor even a mismatch for that matter) and says "Spite" and runs away, that word is overused way too much

@Batman242 said:

When someone calls be a 'Bat-fan'. I mean, yea I have his picture and name up, but I'm not one of those who thinks he always wins. It's just stupid really.

same with superman

When a user feels the need to say "that's your opinion" when it's obvious that's what you're giving. And when they fight about your opinion and try to changed your mind.

Users who say alot of words and most of it is irrelevant. This

Misrepresentation of scans and This

And most of all people who vote real people vs comic book person just cause hes real and he just punches the comic book. so stupid

@laflux said:

Oh and another pet peeve of mine- People Overrating Kratos and Dr Manhattan.

People overrate Kratos? o.O

Low-balling. Nothing is more irritating.

People still bringing Pre 52 Feats to battles that say Current Versions (as in New 52... duh)

I wouldn't say things here piss me off, but it's irritating when scans are misrepresented either on accident or on purpose, or taken out of context without vital story information. It can really set the overall tone for how a character's feats can be percieved. Also, Darkseid. There's no real middle ground as to how powerful or how weak this guy should be between posters, and there doesn't seem to be a completely stable grasp on what posters consider to be PIS/CIS for him or accurate depictions of his powers/weaknesses. I recall the same thing may have once been the case for Thanos a while back. DBZ vs. Marvel/DC also feels like a discussion that gets absolutely nowhere. Also, when DBZ universe rules try to be applied to comic characters that it doesn't really seem to work for.

It's annoying when someone tells you "You really need to read more of [insert character]", "Have you even read [insert character]?", etc., just because you disagree with their assessment of said character.

When you make a valid arguement and the other person doesn't, then they say "agree to disagree". Or when you're making a point and the other person talks about your grammar when they have more than you.

@VeganDiet said:

Low-balling. Nothing is more irritating.

Indeed

And I really hate when people make revenge threads as in a character beats a character that a person likes so they make a really obvious spite thread where the character who won before will get stomped and the jerk who made the thread can enjoy people say so and so loses over and over.

@Vance Astro said:

What russles my jimmies? 1.Users who provoke others and then demand the mods to clean up their mess 2.Users who break the rules but then have excuses as to why they are doing it. 3.When I come in a thread that isn't a mismatch and nobody is making a case, they are just giving a one word answer and leaving. 4.When A user feels the need to say "that's your opinion" when it's obvious that's what you're giving. 5.When users try to "agree to disagree" when they don't have an argument instead of just admitting they're wrong. 6.Users who say alot of words and most of it is irrelevant. 7.Misrepresentation of scans 8.Meme & Demotivational images used to insult people 9.People who think it's their right to call out fanboys or trolls when in reality they just become part of the problem. 10.Hypocrisy

Or better yet, "You are obviously uneducated, stupid, and wrong. Actually, Ghost Rider would win."

I agree with the OP. I'm pretty certain a lot of debaters have experienced the above, and how annoying it is.....

Arrogant people. I'm not naming names. But there are some people who take this site WAY too seriously. When they get mad they dont fade. to black. Then bolt away.

@VeganDiet said:

Low-balling. Nothing is more irritating.

Agreed. I don't mind many things, but low-balling does annoy me pretty badly.

@Batman242 said:

@laflux said:

Oh and another pet peeve of mine- People Overrating Kratos and Dr Manhattan.

People overrate Kratos? o.O

He's a powerful character but not near Thor, Beta Ray Bill or Silver Surfer Levels, yet alone the abilities of Thanos, Odin or Zeus. When I was new , I used to do that, in fact its usually new users who overrate him.

Sore Losers - ex: the people that lose a debate and will just declare everyone that argued against them mindless fanboys wanking to their favourite hero. When you're the only person rallying that your side will win....maybe it's not the other people that are biased.

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@VeganDiet said:

Low-balling. Nothing is more irritating.

Indeed

And I really hate when people make revenge threads as in a character beats a character that a person likes so they make a really obvious spite thread where the character who won before will get stomped and the jerk who made the thread can enjoy people say so and so loses over and over.

Yeah...those kind of Sore losers bother me as well

using inconsistencies and outliers as legit character feats

@Shawnbaby said:

Sore Losers - ex: the people that lose a debate and will just declare everyone that argued against them mindless fanboys wanking to their favourite hero. When you're the only person rallying that your side will win....maybe it's not the other people that are biased.

Although there has been times were I've seen people debate in the right, only to be hounded by those who consider themselves to be right, when they are in fact, wrong or in the very least, an argument could be made for the person they are hounding.

We need referees

What annoys me the most. Bat-fans...they're the worst fanboys in the history of...well...everything. I like Batman alot, not hating on the character himself. But his fans are just dumb (not trying to insult anyone, but it's true) they always give this crap about "prep time"..and just assume that the other character isn't going to use prep time as well. Why would Batman get prep while the other guy doesent? Even with prep, he could never beat anyone above Wolverine/Killer Croc-level...people like Spidey is just too fast, then they throw out this crap "he'll find a way, he always does" EVERY hero finds a way...everyone from Batman to Hulk to Spidey, every hero finds a way...I just hate how everyone thinks Batman and any Batman-related characters are somehow undefeatable...and in all fairness they're just regular humans. THAT'S why everyone like him because he's a human with human limitations and it makes for one of the greatest stories and makes him one of greatest characters of all time. I just hate how everyone thinks he's invincible...

Aside from my Batman fanboy rant.... I hate it when people make ridiculous claims and then state as if they are hard fact. Examples: someone once said Superman is "leagues" stronger than Hulk...I'm not even necessarily saying Hulk would win that fight but it's ridiculous to say that Supes is "leagues stronger" than him...they've both gotten to the point where they're so dang strong that you can't even measure it anymore...both are billions of miles off of any charts that we know of. Another example: someone once said that Thor has "infinite" strength, I love Thor, he's crazy strong but infinite strength...ridiculous. That's the other one that gets me, when people make insane claims that have little to no truth in them and then state it as if it is hard fact.

@Wardemon32 said:

When you make a valid arguement and the other person doesn't, then they say "agree to disagree". Or when you're making a point and the other person talks about your grammar when they have more than you.

yeah this ruffles my feathers...

I am still fairly new here, although I have been reading the debates here for about 2 years (Comic Vine and KMC) but even I have had my jimmies err... rustled! My worst has been people assuming since I am new that I know nothing, or that because I am new I should just accept their arguments. Also...

• people who miss this is a CIVIL battle forum or debating arena and they should act accordingly (I don't see why I should read profanities just because you like them, they don't even enhance the argument);
• people telling you about their so called major experience (assuming because you haven't been on C'Vine for long you have no debating experience) in debating and then dismissing your arguments based on their 'experience';
• people who jump into your debate with someone else and DO NOT EVEN READ UP ON THE DEBATE! They then start talking smack without even knowing what transpired before their point of intrusion;
• lengthy digressions;
• condescension;
• (continued) faulty use of the laws of logic and fallacies, while understandably we are not logicians nothing has my jimmies rustled than someone who keeps telling you this is illogical, fallacious BUT does the same thing themselves... aaaargh!!!!;
• people who expect their point of view to be the only format for a discussion i.e no other vie can be right;
• people who post in anime vs comic debates and then talk smack about the anime character because the anime doesn't follow the DC/Marvel format;
• the failure to think about different universe laws (example DBZ ki and powerlevel works in their universe but not in, say DC)
• people who don't understand that arguing for a character can INVOLVE MORE THAN FEATS!!! A logic coherent argument can be made for a character win without posting scans especially about the popular characters who have standard known power-sets (Superman, Hulk, Flash etc). Posting a scan is not an auto-win nor is asking for a highly specific scan an argument (there are exceptions of course) and finally;
• FANWANKERY!!!! man does this grind my bones, rustles my jimmies, makes me go ape crazy!

thanks for reading

Power level logic. I get power levels are a thing, I get they seem like a good thing for measuring DBZ characters strength.

But it should never be the cornerstone of a argument. The author did not make power levels as some perfect power scaling thing, it was just science fiction numbers that went up, they mean nothing in a worthwhile debate.

@laflux said:

@Shawnbaby said:

Sore Losers - ex: the people that lose a debate and will just declare everyone that argued against them mindless fanboys wanking to their favourite hero. When you're the only person rallying that your side will win....maybe it's not the other people that are biased.

Although there has been time were I've seen people debate in the right, only to be hounded by those who consider themselves to be right, when they are in fact, wrong or in the very least, an argument could be made for the person they are hounding.

That's true...but it's not the "right" or "wrong" thing that gets to me so much...its the "you people are just wanking away on X" part that bothers me. Even if that person is "right" the very fact that so many people have different opinions should indicate that maybe the result isn't as clear cut as that person thinks it is.

Trying to pass character statements off as legit feats without credible proof to back it up.

@Shawnbaby said:

@laflux said:

@Shawnbaby said:

Sore Losers - ex: the people that lose a debate and will just declare everyone that argued against them mindless fanboys wanking to their favourite hero. When you're the only person rallying that your side will win....maybe it's not the other people that are biased.

Although there has been time were I've seen people debate in the right, only to be hounded by those who consider themselves to be right, when they are in fact, wrong or in the very least, an argument could be made for the person they are hounding.

That's true...but it's not the "right" or "wrong" thing that gets to me so much...its the "you people are just wanking away on X" part that bothers me. Even if that person is "right" the very fact that so many people have different opinions should indicate that maybe the result isn't as clear cut as that person thinks it is.

This has happened to me when I bumped an old thread. Everyone was so used to Character X winning they ignored feats for Character Y.

@Decoy Elite said:

Power level logic. I get power levels are a thing, I get they seem like a good thing for measuring DBZ characters strength.

But it should never be the cornerstone of a argument. The author did not make power levels as some perfect power scaling thing, it was just science fiction numbers that went up, they mean nothing in a worthwhile debate.

I disagree. Both extremes are wrong. They don't mean nothing, but they don't mean everything either. There's a middle ground that can be found there that doesn't rely on asinine assumptions or willful ignorance from either side.

@Laurcus said:

@Decoy Elite said:

Power level logic. I get power levels are a thing, I get they seem like a good thing for measuring DBZ characters strength.

But it should never be the cornerstone of a argument. The author did not make power levels as some perfect power scaling thing, it was just science fiction numbers that went up, they mean nothing in a worthwhile debate.

I disagree. Both extremes are wrong. They don't mean nothing, but they don't mean everything either. There's a middle ground that can be found there that doesn't rely on asinine assumptions or willful ignorance from either side.

I get that it can be useful for a "blank is stronger than blank" thing but outside of that I don't see any use. We only know who has more ki and stuff, not what someone is capable of.

@BlackWind said:

Trying to pass character statements off as legit feats without credible proof to back it up.

This i love :)

I think people should be truth full at presenting a feat, as being either substantiated or unsubstantiated.

That makes a huge difference, and Tom Brevroot seem to agree :p, i mean he's the top marvel editor now right...

I hate when some of the top posters ( those over 10k posts) nip at noobs from atop their pedestal, being pompous and condescending,,even worse is when you make a statement they try to discredit,,and when you prove them wrong,,instead of saying "you were right sorry for being an arrogant a$$" they stop responding all together..another irritating thing is when people say everything they don't like is PIS/WIS because certain writers created it..I.e Garth Ennis or Loeb...something's you may not like happens time to time but its cannon so get over it...I hate trolls more than Willow Ufgood,,and people who seem to go out of their way to bash characters they know you like.

@Esquire said:

• People who make an argument, get it soundly debunked, then still go on to make the same argument in a different thread two hours later.1

^ This is the "winner" by far. Makes the debates pointless uninteresting fanwars.

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@laflux: that is annoying i would agree, should we start some dort of topic or something to try to set up gospel as to who should and should not be considered multiversal?

Well that depends on what you mean by multiversal.

Are you saying a being is multiverse in terms of uniqueness, like being only 1 in the multiverse?

OR

Are you saying a being is multiverse, in terms of power?

The formal would fit quite a lot of extra-dimensional beings, because well only earth dimensions are generally replicated throughout the multiverse. In terms of power, there are really, really very few in marvel with that kind of power.

@Killemall: Multi > more than 1 multiverse

Multiversal being (who can affect [not travel to] more than 1 universe)

simple as that

Edit:

the fact that just because one or two anime/manga series has crazy fans that people think all of them do :(

@Rumble Man said:

@Killemall: Multi > more than 1 multiverse

Multiversal being (who can affect [not travel to] more than 1 universe)

simple as that

Edit:

the fact that just because one or two anime/manga series has crazy fans that people think all of them do :(

Not sure i misunderstand so just dont agree.

Firstly, just to make sure i understand, firstly you are saying a being who can affect more than 1 universe (in the same moment in time) would be considered multiversal? Because multiverse is supposed to have infinite number of universe, just because you can affect more than one should not make you multiversal, perhaps universe + in terms of power.

Marvel actually has a whole lot of universe + powerhouse, but the way i see it, if you can affected an entire multiverse with your power, and not just more than one universe, then you are multiversal in terms of power, marvel has very very few of those.

People who are still b#tching about Comics vs. Anime..JUST IGNORE THEM if you don't want to debate in those threads. Grow up!

DBZ fanboys relying on DBZ math and speculative logic to back up their arguments.

But also people who don't give certain DBZ characters enough credit.

People who completely wank a certain character who hasn't proven themselves on the level of the opponent their facing. (looking at you Dr. Manhattan)

Hyperbolic statements for a certain entity being all powerful (Phoenix Force/Cyttorak/Manhattan etc)

The fact that 70%-80% of posters here ignore the environment given from the OP in battle threads and just say "X wins" because it's a popular choice. Put some creative thought into the battle people! The environment has always played a significant role in comics. It's gotten to point where I generally don't care myself unless a character that I know a lot about is competing.

Over-exaggeration of feats.

When someone is debating and they go off the whim and start acting snobbish.

• People who copy and paste from Wikipedia
• Using the arguments of others, if I wanted to debate with them I would.
• Those who allow their hatred of Twilight characters cloud their judgement.

Lol I love that statement. (Rustling your jimmies.)

I hate when people watch a guy tank a bullet and say he's immune to planet level attacks. Take Hancock for example: he tanks a train, and people say that he would beat the sh!t out of Superman. Seriously.

@Vance Astro said:

People who are still b#tching about Comics vs. Anime..JUST IGNORE THEM if you don't want to debate in those threads. Grow up!

Well spoken.

People who are biased against anime/comic characters.

@Killemall:

Not sure i misunderstand so just dont agree.
Firstly, just to make sure i understand, firstly you are saying a being who can affect more than 1 universe (in the same moment in time) would be considered multiversal? Because multiverse is supposed to have infinite number of universe, just because you can affect more than one should not make you multiversal, perhaps universe + in terms of power.
Marvel actually has a whole lot of universe + powerhouse, but the way i see it, if you can affected an entire multiverse with your power, and not just more than one universe, then you are multiversal in terms of power, marvel has very very few of those.

---

Well multi in general means more than one, not infinite (that should be omni[all]verse or mega[million]verse) in that case two is a bare minimum to be considered multiversal.

Marvel has an omniverse

The thing that annoys me the most is when someone clearly doesn't read your argument or doesn't take the time to understand it.

Here's an example, not to pick on the user. This was about if Martian Manhunter can mind wipe the uni-Power which doesn't have a mind.

@Vaeternus: Jenny Quantum is not on the level of the Enigma Force. in a matter of fact, the Enigma Force acts as a third party sentient being. This particular version of Captain Universe seems to only be the Enigma Force acting upon its own. If you actually read the issue, the African American host under the suit is not aware of what's going on. She still thinks she's at home baking a pie. The Enigma Force speaks through her. So I don't think again Martian Manhunter has mind wiped something that is almost purely a cosmic force.



Notice the shift in personality. A panel later the host is gone and the Enigma Force completely takes over.

I highly doubt Martian Manhunter has mind wiped a cosmic level force. This is again not a human conscious, nor is it a skyfather conscious. It does not contain a brain but rather is is like the power of cosmic but sentient.
The power of cosmic has been shown to be capable of affecting and fighting against magic users. Silver Surfer and Galactus for example have confronted demons in their own realm and Skyfathers. So yes, Captain Universe does have an answer to Doctor Fates magic and it's as simple as the power of cosmic being fully capable of tangoing with magic users.
@SlimJ87 Jenny IS a cosmic level being, she's a universal reality warper...you have no proof that would imply Enigma is more powerful then Jenny. She could have killed MMH easily but didn't or couldn't I should say plus he did take a blast from her...so yeah I'll still go with MMH mind wiping Captain Universe. He's mind wiped among the most powerful minds in DCU you have to realize or effected them from beings such as Spectre to Jenny Quantum, entire JL from millions of miles away, from space distances, extracted info from the GL corps, scanned the entire earth in seconds as in read every mind looking for someone...MMH can handle Cap Universe not to mention so can Dr. Fate....
@Vaeternus said:
Jenny IS a cosmic level being, she's a universal reality warper...you have no proof that would imply Enigma is more powerful then Jenny. She could have killed MMH easily but didn't or couldn't I should say plus he did take a blast from her...so yeah I'll still go with MMH mind wiping Captain Universe. He's mind wiped among the most powerful minds in DCU you have to realize or effected them from beings such as Spectre to Jenny Quantum, entire JL from millions of miles away, from space distances, extracted info from the GL corps, scanned the entire earth in seconds as in read every mind looking for someone...MMH can handle Cap Universe.
You don't understand the point at all. The Enigma force is energy with a sentient mind. Would Martian Manhunter be able to mind wipe Jarvis the avengers computer (arbitrary example obviously ? That's where I'm trying to get out. The Enigma Force is a "force." You are mistaking that it must have a conscious that works like multicell organisms or something.
Do you have evidence of MMH mind wiping anything relatively close to the Uni-Power? Stop comparing the Uni-Power to Jenny, they don't work the same.

That's the Uni-Power. What is there to wipe there.

We ended up going a whole page long till other users started to explain it to him also. This annoys me because you can't even agree to disagree since they don't understand your argument in the first place.

@Rumble Man said:

@Killemall:

Not sure i misunderstand so just dont agree.
Firstly, just to make sure i understand, firstly you are saying a being who can affect more than 1 universe (in the same moment in time) would be considered multiversal? Because multiverse is supposed to have infinite number of universe, just because you can affect more than one should not make you multiversal, perhaps universe + in terms of power.
Marvel actually has a whole lot of universe + powerhouse, but the way i see it, if you can affected an entire multiverse with your power, and not just more than one universe, then you are multiversal in terms of power, marvel has very very few of those.

---

Well multi in general means more than one, not infinite (that should be omni[all]verse or mega[million]verse) in that case two is a bare minimum to be considered multiversal.

Marvel has an omniverse

From my research and understanding, a multiverse are collections of universes that are loosely clones or doppelgangers of each other. This makes sense.

Marvel in a sense does have a Omniverse as the story line Kick-Ass isn't related to the Marvel comics at all.

In a larger view, DC, Marvel, Image, etc could all be considered a part of some sort of Omniverse.