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#1 Edited by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

When you Debate what rustles your Jimmies?

I've been on Comicvine for a while now (15 months if anyone is interested). I pretty much spent most of my infancy in this part of the Vine and even now, it is a major part of my Comicvine experience. So, without being too prideful, I'd say I have a good idea of what annoys me and to an extent other people on the vine. But we can all learn from one another, and I think sharing our experiences should make for some comedic and enlightening stories. Alright, I will go first (This is in no particular order).

Insults.

Quite simply, its not needed. Even when someone is in the right, to insult another debater is not ethical IMO. And I'm not talking about subtle satire or sarcasm. I'm talking about anything from calling someone a f@*&ing idiot to saying that should commit suicide by shooting themselves in the mouth (mentioning no names here :P) . The battle forum is supposed to be fun and enlightening at the end of the day, and cursing and swearing at each-other detracts from that.

Trolls.

Surprise surprise. Not as high up my list as it used to be, as most trolls don't believe in their own logic IMO. Furthermore, I do believe that in the battle forums, the best/worst trolls (depending on how you see it) are in the Comicvine archives.

Overemphasis on winning.

Challenge a Viner and Debating tournaments are some of the best ideas that have come up here. Its great to have people show of their knowledge of their favorite characters, and get adequate recognition for it. However, while the prestige for being the best is awesome (as I'm sure would agree), debates are as much about learning about new characters and styles as about winning the latest tourney. Having this idea about debating actually ironically actually improves your debating skills, and will lead to you "winning" more often.

This in no way means that I'm giving up my pledge to become the best Essex bred Spider-Man debater

Treatment of new users.

We were all noobs once- well apart from

I am quiet a neat and tidy person (at least when I'm sober ;) ), so seeing a mangle of text which barely makes sense does grind my gears a bit. There is a edit function- using it makes everyone else's lives alot easier.

One Word Answers.

By this, I mean giving responses to threads which usually consists of X wins/stomps and then walking off. I can totally understand doing this, if an answer to a said thread is obvious or if someone has already said what you are going to say though. A sub-plot to this is something which used to happen alot in the earlier days of Comicvine when people would post images of who they thought they would win in a cool pose, as if that was enough reason for stating why that person would win. I know a picture is supposed to paint a thousand words, but jeez.

Naive Debating.

To me, the difference between a naive debater and a troll, is the burden of knowledge. Naive debaters are just that, Naive. I put it down to two things

Lack of Knowledge.

This is pretty easy to remedy and comes with time. If you don't know about a character at all, let more seasoned debaters concerning him discuss the character, rather than attempting to give a blind guess. Reduced degrees of this would be judging about a character based on out of context scans or one of feats. Comicvine has plenty of respect threads, and the wiki's are for the most part fairly accurate. Flesh out your knowledge of the characters you don't know about using these, as well as seeing more knowledgeable people show their prowess.

Fanboyism.

First off, there is nothing wrong with being a fan of a character. We all have our favorite characters and that's great- though Spider-Man still murks every other comicbook character ever made :P. This becomes a problem when because of your fondness of that said character, you try to argue that said character winning in spite of reason suggesting otherwise. Of course they are varying degrees of this, in which fanboyism tends to gravitate to the more moderate side, but the principle remains the same. Fanboyism doesn't improve your skills, in fact it does the opposite. Your more likely to use out of context scans to prove your point, ignore logic, give opinions rather than scans. You put more of an emphasis on winning, rather than learning, and as a result knowledge of other characters doesn't increase. In essence this ailment links to many of the other things which grinds my gears.

Conclusion

Well that's enough of my yibba yabba for one thread. Now its your turn. When have you experienced Debating Rage? What Grinds yours gears? And how do you deal with it?

Lay down your confessions- and be free

OR

Let this thread completely fail and I will take up offer of becoming his avatar, and laying this site to waste.
#2 Edited by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

When someone calls me a 'Bat-fan'. I mean, yea I have his picture and name up, but I'm not one of those who thinks he always wins. It's just stupid really.

#3 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

When people say that assumptions aren't valid to try and discredit your argument and then make an argument based entirely on assumptions. I call that being hypocritical.

#4 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batman242 said:

When someone calls be a 'Bat-fan'. I mean, yea I have his picture and name up, but I'm not one of those who thinks he always wins. It's just stupid really.

I find it funny when I try out an avatar for a day, defend that said character, then get called a fan-boy of that said character just because I happen to wear their emblem.

#5 Posted by PrinceAragorn1 (17359 posts) - - Show Bio

People denying a 1+1=2 because they'll loose the debate.. Just annoying.

#6 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@Batman242 said:

When someone calls be a 'Bat-fan'. I mean, yea I have his picture and name up, but I'm not one of those who thinks he always wins. It's just stupid really.

I find it funny when I try out an avatar for a day, defend that said character, then get called a fan-boy of that said character just because I happen to wear their emblem.

Yea, they even do it when I come with irrefutable logic. as a matter of fact, I direct them to threads where I think Batman loses to oppose their claims.

Another thing would be when there's a battle between a real life character, i.e: Bruce Lee going up against a fictional character like Batman and say that Bruce Lee would win because he's real.

#7 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

erroneous claims of a character being multi/mega/omniversal

#8 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@Batman242 said:

When someone calls be a 'Bat-fan'. I mean, yea I have his picture and name up, but I'm not one of those who thinks he always wins. It's just stupid really.

I find it funny when I try out an avatar for a day, defend that said character, then get called a fan-boy of that said character just because I happen to wear their emblem.

That's why I use the default avatar. It's not worth the hassle, because odds are, I'm going to at the very least be arguing for a character from that franchise at some point, regardless of what avatar I go with.

#9 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman wins.

#10 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

erroneous claims of a character being multi/mega/omniversal

That's true, I have to admit, Marvel and DC sometimes do a hack job of representing cosmic hierarchy sometimes, which allows such claims to be made.

#11 Posted by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

DBZ math.

#12 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Laurcus said:

@laflux said:

@Batman242 said:

When someone calls be a 'Bat-fan'. I mean, yea I have his picture and name up, but I'm not one of those who thinks he always wins. It's just stupid really.

I find it funny when I try out an avatar for a day, defend that said character, then get called a fan-boy of that said character just because I happen to wear their emblem.

That's why I use the default avatar. It's not worth the hassle, because odds are, I'm going to at the very least be arguing for a character from that franchise at some point, regardless of what avatar I go with.

Sounds legit ^.^

#13 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: its juts, i don't think people should consider a character multiversal if they are never shown to be so (as in, never see them inflicting power that changes many universes)

#14 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@laflux: its juts, i don't think people should consider a character multiversal if they are never shown to be so (as in, never see them inflicting power that changes many universes)

Oh yes that's true. I talking more about times when Characters use universe and multiverse to describe the same instance.

#15 Posted by Betatesthighlander1 (7462 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: that is annoying i would agree, should we start some dort of topic or something to try to set up gospel as to who should and should not be considered multiversal?

#16 Posted by kagetaicho (1992 posts) - - Show Bio

Even more than trolls, it's non trolls not using common sense and not using the same level of acceptance for 2 or more characters. Maybe I'll come up with a few examples.

#17 Edited by Vance Astro (91233 posts) - - Show Bio

What russles my jimmies?
 
1.Users who provoke others and then demand the mods to clean up their mess
2.Users who break the rules but then have excuses as to why they are doing it.
3.When I come in a thread that isn't a mismatch and nobody is making a case, they are just giving a one word answer and leaving.
4.When A user feels the need to say "that's your opinion" when it's obvious that's what you're giving.
5.When users try to "agree to disagree" when they don't have an argument instead of just admitting they're wrong.
6.Users who say alot of words and most of it is irrelevant.
7.Misrepresentation of scans
8.Meme & Demotivational images used to insult people 
9.People who think it's their right to call out fanboys or trolls when in reality they just become part of the problem.
10.Hypocrisy

Moderator
#18 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4732 posts) - - Show Bio

Vance Astro's mother. Heyoooo.

#19 Edited by Batman242 (4860 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

What russles my jimmies? 1.Users who provoke others and then demand the mods to clean up their mess
2.Users who break the rules but then have excuses as to why they are doing it.
3.When I come in a thread that isn't a mismatch and nobody is making a case, they are just giving a one word answer and leaving.
4.When A user feels the need to say "that's your opinion" when it's obvious that's what you're giving.
5.When users try to "agree to disagree" when they don't have an argument instead of just admitting they're wrong.
6.Users who say alot of words and most of it is irrelevant.
7.Misrepresentation of scans
8.Meme & Demotivational images used to insult people
9.People who think it's their right to call out fanboys or trolls when in reality they just become part of the problem.
10.Hypocrisy

QFT

#20 Posted by beatboks1 (7226 posts) - - Show Bio

debates are as much about learning about new characters and styles as about winning the latest tourney. Having this idea about debating actually ironically actually improves your debating skills, and will lead to you "winning" more often.

Agree wholeheartedly. I love Tournaments but it's not so much to actually win a debate. I usually pick characters that haven't been seen in print for like ages and it's a chance for me to tell a story with them in it. To showcase the abilities not seen in like forever. Usually my choices predispose me to loose because those voting don't even know who the hell they are because they haven't been seen in a decade or more.

@Vance Astro said:

7.Misrepresentation of scans

this one also peeves me off. I don't mind when people surf for scans and put them up not knowing the context so much, that at least isn't intended. But what I really hate is when people use three or four scans from a particular issue as proof for something when they have excluded the one in the middle or changed the order so they show something completely contrary to what the actual story did. A perfect example would be when I saw the scans of Wildcat fight batman in a cage fight ( from the Batman Wildcat mini) used to show how ted beats Bruce. When the scan that showed Ted was going all out while Bruce was holding back( because despite both being blind folded Bruce knew who he was fighting ) was omitted as was the one that showed when Bruce started to try he beat him in a couple of blows. People who do that clearly know the context behind the scans because they had a few pages to load.

#21 Posted by gumflabica (2240 posts) - - Show Bio

trolls. i have been battling them my entire life, and considert hem to be evil and disgusting.

otherwise, what @Vance Astro said about covers it.

What russles my jimmies? 1.Users who provoke others and then demand the mods to clean up their mess 2.Users who break the rules but then have excuses as to why they are doing it. 3.When I come in a thread that isn't a mismatch and nobody is making a case, they are just giving a one word answer and leaving. 4.When A user feels the need to say "that's your opinion" when it's obvious that's what you're giving. 5.When users try to "agree to disagree" when they don't have an argument instead of just admitting they're wrong. 6.Users who say alot of words and most of it is irrelevant. 7.Misrepresentation of scans 8.Meme & Demotivational images used to insult people 9.People who think it's their right to call out fanboys or trolls when in reality they just become part of the problem. 10.Hypocrisy
#22 Posted by God_Spawn (37882 posts) - - Show Bio

Damn right.

However, while the prestige for being the best is awesome (as I'm sure would agree),

Moderator
#23 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Betatesthighlander1 said:

@laflux: that is annoying i would agree, should we start some dort of topic or something to try to set up gospel as to who should and should not be considered multiversal?

I'm not that Knowledgeable on cosmics in all honesty. Its a great idea though, though I suggest that you inquire the services of as well as others for such a task.

#24 Posted by BlackWind (6342 posts) - - Show Bio

When people absolutely refuse to admit it is even possible for their side yo lose and throws out PIS or non canon arguments to support their point.

#25 Posted by Malevolent1 (1072 posts) - - Show Bio

The most difficult trolls to deal with are moderators that are trolls.

I've seen them manifest outright bias for certain debaters as well as for debates revolving around certain characters they favor. And it's fine to be a fan of certain characters. Everyone here is. But when you allow it to curve proper judgment, then maybe you should think about doing something else. I've also seen moderators be outright insulting to other posters. You expect other posters to do it, but it's especially frustrating when you see mods do it. In those instances, just PM Babs or GMan. I know those guys have worked their butts off to make this site one of the better ones on the internet for discussing comics. And pretty much, they have succeeded. So, bottom line, when you see moderators getting out of control, pm Babs and GMan immediately...BEFORE you express your discontent to the moderators so that Babs and GMan have a birds eye view of whats going on.

#26 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Damn right.

However, while the prestige for being the best is awesome (as I'm sure would agree),

The wrestler is God_Spawn, while the Ref is every other debater he faces :P

#27 Posted by jashro44 (21693 posts) - - Show Bio

Down playing.

#28 Posted by God_Spawn (37882 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: That's Jerry Lawler. Hall of fame wrestler now turned commentator. Just saying :P.

Moderator
#29 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@jashro44 said:

Down playing.

What about Up playing?

@god_spawn said:

@laflux: That's Jerry Lawler. Hall of fame wrestler now turned commentator. Just saying :P.

Umm.......... I..... knew that.

#30 Posted by SUNMAN (7239 posts) - - Show Bio

not much aside from people being condescending or insulting. We are debating comics here often what's being discussed is pretty subjective and subject to inconsistencies.

#31 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

Finally get to use this.

Online
#32 Posted by jashro44 (21693 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux: That's bad to but it doesn't annoy me as much as down playing.

#33 Posted by Decoy Elite (30041 posts) - - Show Bio

When someone asks for a challenge and then never responds to your @ replies. HINT @god_spawn: HINT

I WOULD HAVE WON THAT ONE THREAD!

But seriously, I don't like the obsession with "winning" some seem to have or when someone says "I win end of argument" in a debate because that's not how debates work.

Also I don't like when people ignore how a character acts in character during a fight.

#34 Posted by Wolfrazer (6712 posts) - - Show Bio

The "so and so speedblitz" thing, I get that is what a character would do when not restricted by writer's or what have you. But it doesn't make for a debate...AT ALL, so if someone knows that people are gonna say that...then why bother having the battle? Either don't make the thread, or limit the speed, or say no speedblitz or w/e its not that hard. 
 
Lets see what else....oh there being no arguments about prep, like for instance. Character A gets 2 days of prep, while character B gets none...now just because character A gets prep doesn't = an auto-win. Does it give them more of a chance? Of course, but that doesn't mean an argument couldn't be brought forth of what could happen. 
 
There are many variables to plans people, planning and then executing plan are two totally different things.

#35 Posted by beatboks1 (7226 posts) - - Show Bio

@SUNMAN said:

We are debating comics here often what's being discussed is pretty subjective and subject to inconsistencies.

QFT

#36 Posted by sandiego008 (3283 posts) - - Show Bio

How consistent feats are only useable if someone feels like that person can do it, it doesn't matter that someone has done it up to 3-4 times.

#37 Posted by Esquire (3833 posts) - - Show Bio
  • People saying "It's just comics" as an excuse for a poor argument.
  • People insulting other users and saying they "have no life" and things of that nature because the user knows more about a character than the insulter does.
  • People who make an argument, get it soundly debunked, then still go on to make the same argument in a different thread two hours later.
  • Lack of punctuation.
  • People who spam a list of single scans to discredit a character when most, if not all, of them are out of context or not even canon.
  • People yelling "I win" or "you lost. Go away." in the middle of a debate, as if that's a distinction that they get to make.
  • Ad hominem attacks. There is no excuse. Not a single one.
  • Overuse of "PIS."
  • People who read a large post, address one of its many points, then claim that they proved the whole thing invalid.

And so many more things...

#38 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5055 posts) - - Show Bio

People complaining about their jimmies being rustled grinds my gears.

#39 Posted by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

People who view everything as either a stomp or a mismatch, and cannot accept the idea that a match can possibly be even or close.

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#40 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lone_Wolf_and_Cub said:

People complaining about their jimmies being rustled grinds my gears.

What about people who squeal in excitement that

#41 Edited by Floopay (8721 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

#42 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (5055 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux I Love It! ;)

#43 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@Floopay said:

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Your picture didn't load, which makes your thanks for reading invalid :P

#44 Posted by Mr_Ingenuity (7519 posts) - - Show Bio

@laflux said:

@Floopay said:

Thanks for reading,

Floopay

Your picture didn't load, which makes your thanks for reading invalid :P

Online
#45 Posted by Laurcus (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

It annoys me when someone claims that something is hyperbole, with no evidence to show that it is hyperbole. Argument from ignorance, seems legit.

Bonus points if the user doesn't know what hyperbole means.

#46 Edited by NeonGameWave (7783 posts) - - Show Bio

For me it would be Fanboyism, Trolls, the Speedblitz argument, the use of misinterpreted scans, No Limit Fallacies and the bashing of anime/manga also DBZ. I don`t like when individuals accuse the DBZ fans of using ABC logic and power scaling when it fits within the context of ki and how it is used, it is very simple and its not difficult to understand and then the Superman fans use feats that were retconned or non canon yet they try to bash the DBZ fans and make them out to be the worst when the Superman fanboys are actually the real problem.

#47 Posted by beautifulrevery (1508 posts) - - Show Bio

@NeonGameWave said:

For me it would be Fanboyism, Trolls, the Speedblitz argument, the use of misinterpreted scans, No Limit Fallacies and the bashing of anime/manga also DBZ. I don`t like when individuals accuse the DBZ fans of using ABC logic and power scaling when it fits within the context of ki and how it is used, it is very simple and its not difficult to understand and then the Superman fans use feats that were retconned or non canon yet they try to bash the DBZ fans and make them out to be the worst when the Superman fanboys are actually the real problem.

This

Also the Goku/Vegeta/Gohan is not a planet buster after the Cell saga(or even Frieza saga depending on the character) because they don't go around casually destroying the planets they're trying to protect.

#48 Posted by UltimateHero0406 (2171 posts) - - Show Bio

@sesquipedalophobe said:

Vance Astro's mother. Heyoooo.

Nah jk

I also hate it when people are so sure that they are right that they become condescending when they are actually so misinformed that it's laughable.

And when people know that they are wrong but ignore the perfectly good points you make.

I hate it when people fiend for the cheapest win they can think of.

I hate it when people get angry that you are disagreeing with them and act like it's wrong.

I hate battles with overused characters.

And recently I hate these Bills threads that people made even though the movie didn't even come out yet.

#49 Posted by laflux (15919 posts) - - Show Bio

@UltimateHero0406 said:

@sesquipedalophobe said:

Vance Astro's mother. Heyoooo.

And recently I hate these Bills threads that people made even though the movie didn't even come out yet.

That is annoying

#50 Posted by The Stegman (24382 posts) - - Show Bio

My two most hated: 
 
-When someone comes on a battle thread that obviously isn't spite (nor even a mismatch for that matter) and says "Spite" and runs away, that word is overused way too much, no Batman vs Captain America is NOT a spite thread. 
 
-When people insult others for having a different viewpoint