Debating Pet Peeves

This might belong in off topic but I figured that this is where most debaters would see it

My biggest pet peeve is when the opponent treats the team members as if they're rabid dogs and attack each other on sight just because they don't know each other. Also when opponents use out of character stuff for example Thor transmuting someone instead of brawling or Silver Surfer slowing down time for auto incap.

My pet peeve is when characters get so popular, they get rabid fans that jump over anyone who disagrees with them, and never debate why they are right when proven wrong.

My pet peeve Is when people say more popular characters win, just because they are more popular or have been around longer.

Im not the only one then :)

True my dear friend, very true.

EDIT: *Looks around for superman fanboys*

A lack of common courtesy, for example my Step Dad and Mom don't cover their mouth when they cough (so now I'm sick), they (as well as my grandparent) fart eveywere (my Step Dad literally bent over in front of a pizza I made and farted on it once), my Step Dad opens up the windows and doors and blasts Michael Bay movies the loudest the speakers go not caring about me or the neighbors.....he's a total D word

I haven't been around here that long but I really dislike what sirfizz and citizen are saying. They when someone likes a character to the point where they can't see the weakness or the limit of said character.

What we mean is

EXAMPLE: Silver Surfer is obviously more powerful than Superman but Superman fanboys will just say "NO SUPERMAN DOESN'T LOSE, BECAUSE HE'S SUPERMAN, THE CLUE IS IN THE NAME....SUPER....DUH!!!!!.)

Very interesting thread.

@citizensentry: wow this is gonna sound like I'm an idiot and am only saying this because I got proven wrong but I ment to put agree I swear lol xD. That's why I said after that, "If someone likes a character they can't see the flaws" my bad...

When people don't take teamwork into consideration, but instead pair heavy hitters with heavy hitters or says someone "solos"

Ex. People often underestimate Superman and Batman's team dynamic. They work extremely well together and even have code words for different battle tactics.

@the_stegman:

Understandable.

But if you put

Superman & Batman vs Silver Surfer & Thanos, Teamwork doesn't come into play.

genjutsu. You know what I mean.

My pet peeve is when people really try to debate that Thanos can "stomp" multiple Superman level or a team like the JLA when he has consistently been hurt by less. Or when people claim that Dr. Doom wins every match he has with prep(even for 5 seconds) simply because he stole something. And that somehow makes him a prep master and the smartest man in Marvel. Yes, he may be the smartest guy but your argument as to why he wins is terrible. Where are the true Doom fans that can actually list things he's created and direct us somewhere instead of the hammy down Doom "fans" that state the most generic things like how he stole something.

@citizensentry: It could, Batman's deductive more and can analyze which opponent Superman would be more effective against and plan accordingly.

people who dont do CaVs for fun. look im all for trying to win but dont back out of one if you think/know youre gonna lose. finish the CaV, take the loss, learn about the character, and make jokes about it later.

the only time you should back out of a CaV is when it no longer becomes fun to debate with your character

This isn't gonna go down well, but whatever.

This should still be an off topic discussion.

I'm with you all.

I occupy the first 4 threads in the battles forum :O

Didn't expect this to be this popular

LMAO

Whoa, that must sucks. I feel bad fro' ya' bro.

How can Superman harm Thanos & Surfer?

When Hulk and Thor fans don't take Hulk and Thors lack of speed into consideration.

When DBZ fans don't take the lack of consistency in DBZ into consideration.

When Thing fans can take the lack of strength compared to hulk into consideration.

When Batman fans can't handle the fact the Cap. will always take a majority in a random encounter.

When Avartar fans can't accept that Naruto is the stronger universe.

- People being stubborn, seeing scans, and still trying to deny whats on panel. Or attempting super hard to try to make the scans not count through faulty logic.

- Anime/Manga wank. If two characters have similar feats and one is anime/manga and one is comic, anime/manga is like 100x stronger somehow.

- People trying to use only high end feats and claim their guy is super strong when consistency says different

- The Speedblitz gg and/or Telepathy gg mentality when neither ever finish a fight immediately in any comic fight ever

- People ignoring feats to fit their narrative

When people blow feats out of proportion or misinterpret them completely. Also when debaters say "Statements don't mean anything" for a character they're debating against, then turn around and say statements count for their favorite characters.

@darkraiden:

I think that people hate "speedblitz" because it means different things for different people. I only use it in a context where I believe one character can legitimately see other other as if they were standing still and move in their own perception as fast as a normal human being. I mean, I know of more than a few debaters who think "speedblitz" is just a highspeed tackle. Wherein arises a situation where two different characters can legitimately speedblitz one another... which is really confusing.

I can kind of understand the Anime/Manga wank of feats. Comics are generally pretty ambiguous because they simply use up fewer pages. I mean, a 40 chapter Naruto brawl probably happens in two to three chapters of a Western comic... because Anime/Manga generally focus more on the spectacle than the story. If you're binge reading Manga it feels fine, but once you start reading weeklies or monthlies it really hurts the flow of the story in general.

I can kind of also understand the highballing of characters in general. Mostly because power creep generally leads to newer feats being more impressive. Newer feats are more easily recalled and are honestly probably better indicators of what the character is like now, rather than how they were.

Like the weird situations that arise when people equate Pre-Flashpoint Superman with Pre-Bryne era Superman. Suddenly the character feels wildly inconsistent.

@serrure:

CAV dodging is sad. Though nothing is sadder than an unfinished CAV where it's obvious at least one debater put a ton of effort into it.

@citizensentry: @sirfizzwhizz:

EH. I get where you're coming from, but might you agree that in a fight between two characters with generally equal feats, the more consistent character should be favored?

Vastly more roughly equal feats = Generally more consistent = Stronger argument for that character to win?

Just rude people.

No, not at all. Having more feats is not a good thing, as it means having more bad feats. But fans of long running characters want to ignore the long list of bad feats, and focuse on 60 years of single high ends most of the time.

Characters with less feats are not inferior. If someone is stated to be the most skilled being of their Universe, or dimension, or planet, then they are comparable to the top ranks of say Marvel or DC skill. Say like TMNTs or Snake Eyes. They do not live in Marvel, but are they inferior in martial arts when they beat the best of their world, and have feats of defying physics of their universe because they are just "so dang skilled". But they have again less feats than Captain america, does this make Cap better?

Having more feats is not better. Quality > Quantity any day. If Snakes Eyes ran faster than a human can see once, but Cap did it three times, is Cap better? No both have done it.

My pet peeve is when people say my favorite characters lose.

This right here.

@sirfizzwhizz: So... consistency doesn't actually matter to you? In fact, you're basically saying consistency is just an opportunity for worse feats...

Isn't that kind of ridiculous?

Wouldn't the "best" martial artist from a debating perspective then just boil down to some single issue character with generic bullet timing feat and an author box saying that they're the best martial artist of all time in their universe?

Said character would basically be unassailable to any other straight up martial artist even if they have basically no feats whatsoever.

Of course Quality trumps Quantity.

Regardless, my argument was:

IF the quality of two character feats are roughly equal

AND one of the two characters has a vastly larger number of roughly equal showings (the other character has one-two roughly equal showings)

THEN the character with vastly greater number of roughly equal showings is more consistent in replicating said showings.

List is not in any particular order.

1.) Wonder woman wankers. Another character tainted by their fanbase, its ok to make an argument for her but my god.

Ex: Fanboy: "Nope she has Godwave, she solos"

2.) Supes fanboys, not as bad as it used to be but still annoying.

3.) DMC Fanboy baiters and thread killers. God help us if one finds this thread.

4.) People who use ABC logic constantly *cough* see #1 *cough*

5.) The way people overrate but underrate Naruto characters. They have feats to put them up their with some high-tiers but with abstracts and such is just utterly ridiculous.

6.) using Featless characters

7.) Arguing that superman doesn't have an exploitable weakness to magic despite the consistency of such over the years with a plethora of examples.

8.) The obvious baiter on like every thread now, if only if only I could tag him.

9.) Claiming Sentry is unbeatable.

Ex: "Dude he beat molecule man!"

10.) Not reading the OP then commenting.

11.) fanboy favorite threads that essentially are "My dad can beat up your dad" arguments.

My pet peeve is using inconsistent feats of people

EX: OP says New 52 Superman, People still say "OH MY GAH, SUPA MANE STOMPS, HE MAKE MULTIVERSES" or they use other versions of the same character.

PICK A VERSION OF THE CHARACTER, AND STOP CHERRY PICKING FEATS.

Consistency is a two edge sword.

A character has 1 showing of moving faster than a bullet, but no showings of being hit by a humans attacks.

B character has 20 feats of outrunning a bullet, but 5 times been hit by say a arrow or a slingshot.

Well character B has more feats than character A by alot, but is character A inconsistent if nothing suggest it is while character B has some inconsistencies?

In the end its all about fans. Some characters are just "popular" and no one wants to see fault in them. Or simply over wank the feats they do have.

Pretty much this & just want to add when a person's only argument is speedblitz or the opposing side gets mad & starts to get rude because he/she has no further argument

The favoritism towards comic book characters. I mean yeah it is a comic book site, but it gets on my nerves how people can't admit when a peak human from another medium is on par with top tiers from comics. Raiden had to pick up and throw a Metal Gear to be considered a good match for Deathstroke. But then Deathstroke still wins because "skill", as if sword fighting with your feet isn't notable skill.

1. Naruto Wank
2. People not accepting that Slowdinson is well....slow.
3. People making threads with Featless wonders
4. Dante wank
5. No dunes fan here :(

@thenewbluebeetle007: I suppose it just comes down to what you're into. Maybe a good question is: how should community members benefit after having read a battle forums discussion on Comic Vine? Considering what characters would do "in character" would certainly be interesting to those who prefer that style of discussion as it applies to a proposed battle. I think some people simply want to know what characters can do when they take the kid gloves off and use ALL the powers they have at their disposal to their fullest extent. Some characters (Superman comes to mind) have built in inhibitors. Obviously, Superman is an extremely powerful character. I think part of the fun for writers is that he has a natural buffer that allows the telling of a full story....

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But the question I have for you: if I'm brand new to comic books and recently fallen in love with character X because (in my mind) this guy is the baddest Mo Fo on the planet and no one could possibly beat him....and I declare as much on the Vine that this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, etc....until I get blown out of the water by a (perhaps) more experienced reader who introduces feats to the contrary....I suppose I'm saying I'd really rather know who the higher ups on the food chain within a relative tier of characters (street level, metahumans, etc...), truly are.

Using blood lust is simply a way to drop these character induced (writer?) fail safes so comparison's of a character's highest feats can be introduced without the built in character dampers that downplay what a character....fully unleashed....can really do.

Educational? In a battle forums context sure.

But again, it comes down to taste.

When the opponent has no knowledge of the opposing character.

@blackstaroblivion said:

@thenewbluebeetle007: I suppose it just comes down to what you're into. Maybe a good question is: how should community members benefit after having read a battle forums discussion on Comic Vine? Considering what characters would do "in character" would certainly be interesting to those who prefer that style of discussion as it applies to a proposed battle. I think some people simply want to know what characters can do when they take the kid gloves off and use ALL the powers they have at their disposal to their fullest extent. Some characters (Superman comes to mind) have built in inhibitors. Obviously, Superman is an extremely powerful character. I think part of the fun for writers is that he has a natural buffer that allows the telling of a full story....

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

But the question I have for you: if I'm brand new to comic books and recently fallen in love with character X because (in my mind) this guy is the baddest Mo Fo on the planet and no one could possibly beat him....and I declare as much on the Vine that this is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, etc....until I get blown out of the water by a (perhaps) more experienced reader who introduces feats to the contrary....I suppose I'm saying I'd really rather know who the higher ups on the food chain within a relative tier of characters (street level, metahumans, etc...), truly are.

Using blood lust is simply a way to drop these character induced (writer?) fail safes so comparison's of a character's highest feats can be introduced without the built in character dampers that downplay what a character....fully unleashed....can really do.

Educational? In a battle forums context sure.

But again, it comes down to taste.

Wut.....?

Lol, totally off topic but I'm sick now (again) as well. My brother said he "couldn't" control his sudden coughing fit while we were eating dinner and coughed near/on my food and face. Next morning I woke up and with a stuffed nose and sore throat. >_>. (I suspect other factors involved but I think that might be the main culprit).

Hmm, a peeve of mine is when people take low end feats and use it as the basis on why Character X beats Character Y.

@citizensentry: Did I misunderstand the OP's question? Sounds as if his concern were people setting up battle threads where blood lust was on?

@blackstaroblivion:

No he the OP said his pet peeve was and I'm quoting here "opponent treats the team members as if they're rabid dogs and attack each other on sight just because they don't know each other. Also when opponents use out of character stuff for example Thor transmuting someone instead of brawling or Silver Surfer slowing down time for auto incap"

I'm not going to translate that for you since it isn't my pet peeve but I will let @thenewbluebeetle007 do it.

Eh, my response is close enough for a Friday night.