Debaters Rating Thread

Lol I only calls em like I see them my man. I'm sorry that I haven't looked back through previous pages but have you provided links for reference?

Here you go, buddy

• Specimen 6 and Xenomorphs vs Bone-Claw Wolverine, Captain America and Bucky
• Falcon and Captain America vs Black Panther and Deadpool [2v2]
• Bullseye and Nightwing vs Black Widow and Connor Hawke [2v2]
• Michael De Santa, Franklin Clinton, Trevor Philips vs Niko Bellic, Johnny Klebitz, Luis Lopez

@keenko: Alright, thanks. Let me read through and hopefully will get to the rating later tonight......

@jestersmiles: sorry for the delay, but here comes da rating!

This next rating is based on this CaV and comments presentend to this battle thread.

I must say that I'm very impressed and quite surprise to see how well you manage to support the character Harley Quinn. You manage to bring several feats, subdivided into categories for better understanding and in an organized manner so that readers can follow your line of reasoning. For me, in both CaV and battle thread, you manage to present a solid defense for your chosen character, that of course you seem to know quite well. Better yet, you made important comparisons to show how and why said character would be superior in particular aspect and so on. This is a better way to defend your point of view without resorting to low balling. I'm not sure how many CaV's you've done before that one against SFW, but the fact that you manage to pull 3 votes against him (who is a experienced debater) is a remarkable achievement. You debated on equal terms and manage to persuade the viners and win some votes, which means you actually did a great job.

Tip-wise, I recommend working on your formatting, it's not that you are incompetent in this area, but surely there is room for improvement, specifically for your opening post, and during the debate, always try to maintain the same formatting "pace", in order to not confuse who is reading, just a minor tip. Of course I've only seen you debating for a single character, so I'd like to see in the future how you do in the defense of other characters. That's my second tipactually, try to expand your knowledge and test yourself against other experienced debaters for your self improvement, you can always learn from them, either by directly debating or just reading their past debates. Last tipwould be resort last on scans and use more your "power of argumentation", it's totally fine to do that in the begining, considering I've done it before but if there's something I've learn is that arguments win debates, and not a bunch of scans, so try to use them only on key points during your debate.

Basically you've been doing a good job so far, so just:

Keep up the good work!

@thedailybagel: okay your name is on the list, you should get a rating soon enough.. Have you presented links from your debates?

Links for my most recent debates:

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-serrure-vs-thedailybagel-1614839/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-hulk-tdb-vs-sophia89-sentry-1612163/

@higorm: nice review and rating there mate. I 'll have Keeno's done soon and we shall almost be caught up!!!!

@cosmicallyaware1: Thanks mate!! And once again thank you for your support!!

no problem my man, I give credit where credit is due.............and always have had the utmost respect for you as a viner. Cheers.

Since I've got some more debates, anyone mind giving me a review?

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-azula-justicethorpsylocke-vs-mako-bolin-arcus--1652461/#36

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-percy-jackson-and-friends-vs-team-arcus-1613731/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/avatar-team-tourney-arcus-vs-lunacyde-closed-1594069/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/avatar-team-tourney-arcus-vs-wbr17-1596679/

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/avatar-team-tourney-arcus-x-sovereign91001-closed-1592631/

@cosmicallyaware1: I expected as much to be perfectly honest. Anyways, onto your points.

@higorm: Thnx for the rating man , I appreciate it, I am going to take your advice and put them into practice asap. BTW that CaV was my first one ever against any one xD. I was really nervous. I was lucky to win it.

I can see what you mean about formatting, I thought that changing it up a little will help ease up on the wall of text and spoilers blocks but I see what you mean one the need to keep it uni formed. So I keep that in mind for my next time.

As for expanding my knowledge and resort to using less scans. Well kinda doing that now.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/rvb-tournament-round-1-jestersmiles-vs-oni-bane-1653780/?page=1#11-mark

I want to test myself on how I do on characters I don't know much about for one reason:

• It going to make me rely on upping my debating skills when I don't have that many scans to fall back on (i do have scans don't worry)
• See what I come up with when I am dealing with characters i am not to familiar with.

Hopefully I will continue to improve and better myself. Thanks for the advice.

@cosmicallyaware1:

@jestersmiles: No problem buddy. Glad to see you are improving your game from those advices :)

@sightlessreality: I hope the rating and advice helped man, just trying to provide solid information for debaters to improve. Cheers mate.

@higorm: @thetruebarryallen: @cosmicallyaware1:

Hey guys, i asked for a rating a whike ago, and havent been added to the wait list. I was just curious when i would be able to get my rating?

(I can post my previous/ current debates now or later when my time to be rated comes)

Thanks in advance! :)

@speedster101: i'll add you to the list right now, but I can't promisse a rating in a near future, maybe @cosmicallyaware1 can, otherwise I'd have to find another rater with avaiable time..

@speedster101: I can if you link me to some stuff.

@keenko: sorry for taking so long. I will get to this as soon as I can....

Anybody want to rate me?

@deathhero61: Back of the line, Bub.:P

@thetruebarryallen I'll post some of my matches, gimme a minute to gather the links :)

@thetruebarryallen:

My first real debate, I clearly didn't do very well here, but I figured it's worth posting.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/r2-despero-speedster101-vs-brightest-day-tnbb-voti-1643971/

one of my only match ups that I have finished currently... (most of my other matches my opponent just stopped responding). Probably my best debate atm.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/ph-sentry-speedster-vs-superboy-prime-ca1-voting-1647652/?page=5

This one is still in the middle of debating, but I think I've done pretty well in it thus far (probably my 2nd best debating)

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/mtat-r1-tnbb007-vs-speedster101-1656314/?messageId=14200741#js-message-1

A CaV that my opponent stopped responding, but I think it got far enough in that you could see at least some of my debating (one of my earlier debates)

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-mr-ingenuity-vs-speedster101-1646165/

And lastly, a CaV that I've just started, not much has happened here, but still worth posting I guess...

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/cav-ghostrider-bullettothehead-vs-despero-speedste-1655835/

That's pretty much it. There were two more CaVs but they didn't get very far before dying.

Thanks in advance! :)

@speedster101: No problem; gimmie a day or two so I can actually read everything through and make sure I give you good feedback :)

@thetruebarryallen: Sweet my friend! Thanks, it will mean a lot coming from you.

I'd love to eventually get a rating, but I think I need to wait more. I haven't had much luck in lasting debates. I've had like 12 where my opponent conceded, 2 where I did, 1 by coin toss (which I lost), and only 2 where it actually reached voting. Both the ones that reached voting I lost, and one I was completely new to debating. Could I get on the list anyway though? Hopefully by the time it gets to me I'll have some more full debates.

@firestormfate1919: Sure, I'll add you right now. Hopefully you can get a rating in a near future.

Ok. I'll wait until I get some longer debates, so some people may be able to jump me (as in people who sign up later). I couldn't find a lot of the debates, but here are some. Like I said, almost all end very early due to the conceding of my opponent.

The debates that actually reached voting, but I lost.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/round-2-beatboks1-vs-firestormfate-open-for-voting-1634333/

• So this was like my second CaV Style debate, so I was quite the rookie. I had no idea about team building, posting scans, or formatting. On top of that I was facing beatboks, so you can probably guess how that turned out. I honestly don't know how I even reached Round 2 here. I lost 10-1, but some of the comments were a bit positive.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/semifinals-tnbb-brightest-day-vs-ff1919-jsa-voting-1649673/?page=2

• Here I faced TNBB in the Semifinals of a more recent Tournament. I had some issues with being concise (according to voters) and got some stuff wrong with Alan Scott. I don't think think it was a terrible loss though. I think I had counters to really everything there was, and some sufficient battle plans. They were just lost in the ocean of other arguments I had (that's what TNBB and beatboks said at least). Here I lost 3-0 with some people undecided.

Other Debates I found that had some palpable content

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/r1-ultimate-phoenix-primez0ne-vs-jsa-firestormfate-1641282/

• This is round 1 of that same Tournament. My opponent concedes pretty early on due to lack of means for victory

• This is round 1 of a current Tournament. I made a pretty powerful team, resulting in my opponent conceding. There was limited debating here.

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/nt-dragonenton-vs-firestormfate1919-1643556/

• My opponent concedes due to a lack of means for victory. There isn't that much debating. Sadly Round 2 of this tournament (against TNBB) was deleted. That one had a ton of debating, and was a pretty good match. I then lost in the Coin Toss that'd determined the finals.

I can't find two of the ones I wanted to put up (they had some good debating until my opponents conceded). I'll post them if I do (they may have been deleted by now). They followed a similar fashion to about 4 posts each before I won (they were long posts though).

http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/r2-ultron-jacthripper-vs-jsa-firestormfate-1645606/

• My opponent concedes due to a lack of means for victory.

As stated numerous times, most of my victories are from a pretty initial win. The more extended ones that came to voting were both losses. I'm currently in the STT where I'm using the team that won against Primezone. I'm in a Power House Tournament after facing Zearing and Darkseid1006 (I'm pretty sure my next matchup will be with a very good debater given the amount of near HoF's participating). I'll wait until I can get at least two more good ones that come down to voting.

@thetruebarryallen: Anything my friend?

I've been working on reading through your debates earlier this morning :) I should have something up in the next 24 hours, if I don't then tag me and call me a liar so I'll do it haha

I forgot two more things. I'm also doing a CaV with some great debaters that will hopefully be good. I also entered a High Tier Torunament with lots of great debaters. There's a decent chance I'll face a high level debater there in the first round.

@thetruebarryallen: Haha will do xD

@thetruebarryallen: YOU LIAR!! XD

DARN I'M SUPER SORRY I HAD A FRIEND COME OVER AND I'VE FAILED YOU! I'LL TRY TO GET IT UP BY THE END OF THE WEEK I SUCK I'M SORRY!!!

@thetruebarryallen: Haha I feel you bro, I was gonna post a response to one of my matches today, but I hung out with friends after school instead xD...

It's all good my friend, no worries :)

@thetruebarryallen: Any thing bro?...

I've got to get to work in here. Slackin.

TTBA's Rating of Speedster101

I'm a terrible human being because I suck at deadlines; it's time to rate you, bro!

Area's of Observation:

• Formatting
• Counter Points
• Character Knowledge
• Attitude

I'll try and hit on these four main areas, if I see something else that I need to bring up then I'll throw it in a misc section.

Formatting

The first thing I noticed when reading the 'Despero vs Brightest Day' match was your formatting or lack thereof; however, TheNewBlueBeetle gave you this note. I also noticed a lack of using the quote function which makes it difficult to follow arguments throughout a debate, especially for those who read it start to finish.

Though it seems you're well on your way to fixing your formatting, as you more recent CAV battle 'Despero vs Ghostrider' your formatting has improved greatly and you're using the quote function thus making it easier to view the points you're countering and connect your counters to the original point for a true comparison.

One suggestion I have for even further improving your formatting would be to use some of the smaller header options (like header 3 or header 4) within your counter section to make a specific section for each main point you're countering.

An example of this for your Despero vs Brightest Day match would be something like:

Counters

Despero's Telepathy vs Team:

Blah blah Despero has uber awesome telepathy, look how it rocked MMH, blah blah blah

Absolute Zero vs Despero:

Blah blah, holy smokes Absolute Zero is chilly, blah blah

Basically I think you see the point. It just allows you to focus on certain counter points and it lets the readers know that you specifically noticed that was a big debate point and you're taking the time to dedicate an entire section to it. It also means that if voters are wanting to see how you countered the Telepathy argument or the Absolute Zero argument that they could go back and re-read the specific section instead of having to sift through the entire post looking for where it was discussed.

Overall; your formatting is improving. It isn't the BEST and there is still room for improvement but you've recognized this and you've gotten much better with it since your first debate, great job!

Counter Points

I know I want to say something about this but I don't know exactly how to word/phrase what I want to say.

It isn't that your counter points are bad; it's that I think they could have more elaboration surrounding them. You tend to be a little bit blunt or offer minimal explanation regarding the counter points which sometimes feels like the argument is left unfinished or that you don't exactly know what you yourself wants to say about the matter.

Counter points are something that everyone always needs to improve on, its like we need a perfect balance of elaboration and conciseness; we don't want to write paragraphs about a single tiny detail but we want the voters to know we DO have counters for it.

One example that I can use here is your telepathy argument in the Despero vs Brightest Day Match:

You brought up the fact that Despero had taken on J'onn countless times and won the majority of them; the only times I can remember J'onn winning against Despero was when he used his plot device power (that he's only able to use once and then it's gone) and then that moment in the New 52 in which N52 Despero is less powerful than his Pre 52 self.

Some points you could've made to counter his arguments, and you might've made these points but they could've been a tad stronger:

• Arthur isn't a powerful telepath thus he isn't adding anything to the equation, Despero bested both him and MMH rather easily and THEN went against the Justice League and began to mentally dominate them.
• Eobard speeding up his mind doesn't necessarily make him resistant to telepathy, I would've asked for some feats regarding that. Reason I say that is because Wally West was susceptible to a mental attack from Martian Manhunter even though he's a speedster, scan can be found here.
• Scans of Despero resisting Starro face-huggers while MMH (and pretty much everyone else in the Justice League/DCU) was affected by them would've helped your telepathy argument as well, showing how powerful a mind Despero has.

You also used some points out of context, be careful of doing that:

• Grodd has only beat MMH due to enhancing his psionic abilities with a device; however, MMH was able to trick Grodd in that same fight to make him KO himself. The only other Grodd vs MMH scan we see is from Futures End which is from a future that may not happen so it's canon-ness is questionable.
• The MMH getting his skull crushed by Despero was the plot device illusion that MMH used. TNBB called you out on this one and it made it look like he perchance knew the character better than you did. Just be careful of this in future debates.

Also; the reason I keep using the Despero debate as my reference is because its a character that I know inside and out.

Conclusion: Your counter points could use some more work; they're not terrible by any means but they could use some fine tuning and slight elaboration :)

Character Knowledge

I've really only been reading your debates w/Despero, and you seem to know the character to an alright degree; however, I think the best thing to do is make sure you know your opponent's characters.

If you can make it look like you know the character's you're debating against better than the person debating for them knows them you'll look AWESOME in a debate. Try to google old debates and see if you can find knowledge or arguments to make against them, research scans and make sure to know the context behind them.

There is always room for more knowledge, and knowledge is power!

Attitude

You have a great attitude about debating. You ask for feedback because you truly do want to improve, you accept points your foes make and you give them recognition for being good points, you're just a friendly guy.

Keep this attitude because it'll help you rise about the rest, just have fun with it.

Conclusion

You're taking steps to improve your formatting which is good, because formatting might also help improve your counter arguments. Don't be afraid to elaborate some more on your counter points to really drive the point home, but you're not bad by any means.

Your character knowledge could use some work, research is key in debating. Sometime's googling a character's respect thread can be useful because you might be able to debunk a feat or learn context behind it that'll make you look better in the debate. You can also ask some veteran users here who seem really knowledgeable about certain characters if they'd be able to elaborate on a character's abilities, of course don't do this when you're in a debate with someone because then you're getting outside help and that's kind of cheap, but if you're looking back at a debate and you're truly curious about a character your foe used feel free to talk to someone about it.

Your attitude is awesome; you look like you're having lots of fun debating and enjoying your time spent on Comicvine and we NEED more of that around here. You could be a good role model for this if you keep up the good work.

All in all; you're on your way to becoming a great debater. If you have any questions about the things I said, feel free to ask.

Also, if you'd like to see how I was when I first started just look at this link. I was pretty terrible, so it's proof that with enough time and effort ANYONE can improve: http://www.comicvine.com/forums/battles-7/big-shoes-thetruebarryallen-vs-batnorris-1467729/#19/

@speedster101: I HAVE DONE THE THING :D

@thetruebarryallen: you should read speedsters debate that he did with me (Death Seed Sentry VS Superboy Prime). Excellent work, and leagues above anything he had done before.

@cosmicallyaware1: I'll check it out! I mostly used the Despero Debates for feedback because I know that character like I know the back of my hand ^__^

@thetruebarryallen: understood. But for sure read that debate, I bet you'll be impressed....

@thetruebarryallen: Thanks man! I have been working on my eleboration for some time now, but im still nowhere close to perfection... And for my formatting, I know im no where close to the likes of you or @cosmicallyaware: but i think i have drastically improved since my Despero vs Brighest day match... Didnt you vote in Me (DSS) vs CA1 (SBP)? If so i think my formatting was displayed there... Wish you had time to read all my matches, but i totally understand that ur busy with real life things.

And thanks for the compliment about my personality, means alot... I admittedly get a little hasty when asking Voters for more reasonings and/or how i can improve, but its only cuz i really do wanna get better.

Lastly, (for curiosity) one a scale from 1-10 how good do u think i am at the moment? XD

How do you get into debates?

They seem fun.

@crushyourenemies: We could do one... To start you off and give pointers...

I can explain in a PM if youd like?..

sure

@crushyourenemies: Sweet ill pm u.

@crushyourenemies: Just get into debates of characters that you like or join tournaments/CaV's.. @thetruebarryallen: Very Nice rating my friend ;)

@crushyourenemies: PMd ya my friend... You know how PMs work right?... XD

@keenko: sorry took so long. Here we go!!!

The Ranking of Keenko // Presented by Cosmicallyaware1

first off:

Advice, Tips, and Pointers.....

from what I've seen you debate fairly well actually. You have a healthy grasp on debating principles and utilize tools provided (quote tool, Headers, spoiler blocks, etc..). You have decent information on the characters you represent, and debate with a good attitude. I have yet to see you be disrespectful or over confident which is a good thing.

Some constructive criticism would be: (and a lot of this I have stated previously on others, however much of it is universal that I see not done or as an out-point)

Point 1:

Be more specific. It is always a key element to cite references when stating a feat. It helps the plausibility of your argument, and helps others to see that you truly are staying within the context of what you are referring to. Also on the topic of being specific, I would go into deeper detail if I were you. If you are discussing why something will or will not happen, delve deeper into explanations of the mechanics of such a thing.

Point 2:

Work on your layouts a little bit more. You have been doing pretty good at this from what I have seen, but there is always room for improvement.

Formatting is essential to a great debate. By this I mean the aesthetics of your debate layout, as this can be a fundamental part of a debate. The structure flows the reader through your proposal, and is vitally important. I suggest using headers placed strategically to break up sections of your debate. Such as chapters and key sections/topics. This allows the debate to be broken down for discussion and that way everything doesn't run together. Use Bullet points and numbering system to make things flow easier when rebutting arguments as well, and that makes it easier to respond to as well.

The placement of scans is essential, and always use spoiler blocks for larger scans. I use scans to back up arguments and illustrate points. If you make a claim of the character you are representing, and cite an instance when a feat was performed.......use the scan to show what you mean. However, use this wisely. Too many scans are bad...the strategic placing for maximum impact is essential and effective.

Point 2:

Grammer and vocabulary. Being a "wordsmith" is a very resourceful tool. There is such a thing as being too verbose, but rarely.....especially when debating. The more intelligently articulate you are, the audience will be much more responsive to what you are proposing. The best debaters are the ones that practice this concept......

Point 3:

Finish debates. At least half of your threads were unfinished. It isn't good to leave too many "dangling" as it tarnishes your credibility as a debater (I have some myself, and I regret every unfinished match. I try to "fire them back up" periodically in attempts to finish).

Also, participate in more debates. This will really help you to learn, and "flesh out" any inconsistencies to become a solid voice on the vine.

In conclusion:

• Work on your grammer, vocabulary, and your wording of a post some more. Expand on your descriptions of feats and stated instances with more eloquent verbiage.
• Work on enhancing and fine tuning of your posting layouts and structuring of your debates. Aesthetics.
• Increase your knowledge, which is vital .
• Participate in more debates.. and strive to finish the ones you start.

The Ranking!!

I don't necessarily believe in an arbitrary numerical system for ranking the prowess of viner's debating. I would rank you at slightly above average. However I do feel that you have a good grasp on what it takes to be a solid debater, and by no means did I find many significant faults. Just take what you are doing and kick it up a notch.

o hoho .. some huge posts.. never really opened this thread in the past :D