Deathstroke Vs Solid Snake [Rounds]

Solid Snake Vs Deathstroke

Rules/Stipulations:

• In Character
• Random Encounter
• Solid Snake Is Composite
• Deathstroke Has Pre & New 52 (Pre-Godkiller) Feats, But Only Has His Pre-Flashpoint Gear (Unless Stated Otherwise)
• Victory By Knockout Or Death

Rounds:

Round 1:

• CQC Only
• Both Are Equipped With This Knife
• Both Are In Standard Military Training Suits
• Starts 5 Feet Apart Here:

Round 2:

• Both Are Equipped With Dual HK45 Tactical's (Four Clips For Both Guns Each) & The Knife From The Previous Round
• Both Are Wearing Standard SWAT Outfits
• Starts 50 Feet Apart Here:

Round 3:

• Standard Gear
• Starts 40 Feat Apart Here:

Callouts:

Deathstroke both rounds

Any wordy reasoning?

So if he has new 52 feats, but most of those feats revolved round his gear, how exaclty can those feats be replicated without his gear?

The feats in Tony Daniel's run give him good skill & strength feats.

@imperfect_cell: He outclasses Snake in almost every aspect especially reflexes

He doesn't outclass him in any aspect.

I'd go Deathstroke in the first round and Snake in the last one.

Strength, Speed, Reflexes, Durability. The important ones

Deathstroke.

Snake rounds 2 and 3 most definitely. It won't be easy, but there really isn't an argument, Snake has more options and is more skilled in those types of scenarios. Deathstroke has a shot in round 1, only because pre-52 skill combined with new-52 stats, but composite Snake very well might be too fast in the end.

@imperfect_cell: nothing nearly as good as pre 52. All he has done so far is defeat a featless bronze tiger a had a small unimpressive showing with Batman while messed up.

Snake.

I don't see why there isn't an argument to be made.

Why is Snake too fast for someone who can outreact Donna Troy?

I don't think there is. Snake is clearly better with guns, and obviously stealth is a huge advantage, those are the factors at play in rounds 2 and 3. Strength, martial arts, none of that matters. Deathstroke can't outsmart Snake either, they're both tactical experts, Slade specializes in psychology and manipulation, Snake specializes in improvisation and unorthodox attacks. Snake is too much of a veteran to let Slade get inside his head, he isn't a teenager like the usual characters Slade manipulates, and then Snake's skills lend themselves more to the scenario. So even though it won't be easy, I firmly believe Snake takes rounds 2 and 3 10/10.

Snake's speed has always been insane, it's a part of his abilities set. But Twin Snakes took it to an absurd extreme. Snake is more like Dante or Neo in that game.

I don't like arguing on my own threads, but it's not exactly against the rules, so why not?

@nickzambuto:

Snake is clearly better with guns

How so? Not only does Slade have very impressive accuracy, but he's been able to consistently tag people faster than him, & down right speedsters with ranged weaponry.

and obviously stealth is a huge advantage

Has Snake ever actually used stealth on someone who has superhuman senses like Deathstroke? Deathstroke isn't likely to glance over him if Snake hides in plain sight. He's seen both Atoms when they were microscopic & can sense subtle changes in the air along with a considerable degree of superhuman hearing.

those are the factors at play in rounds 2 and 3.

But what about Slade's marksmanship, superhuman senses, speed, healing, etc? There's not even a lot of places to hide in the locations I've selected for the rounds. I didn't do that on purpose, that just occurred to me now.

Strength, martial arts, none of that matters.

Well if it ends up in CQC it does, & that's how I see all rounds ending.

Deathstroke can't outsmart Snake either, they're both tactical experts, Slade specializes in psychology and manipulation, Snake specializes in improvisation and unorthodox attacks. Snake is too much of a veteran to let Slade get inside his head, he isn't a teenager like the usual characters Slade manipulates, and then Snake's skills lend themselves more to the scenario.

Slade doesn't need to outsmart Snake. All he has to do is stay alert, which is something he's very good at. If a gun goes off, Slade is more than fast enough to dodge the bullet, even if he only hears it. Like Snake, Slade is well in Mach 2+ ranges in reaction time as well as combat speed.

So even though it won't be easy, I firmly believe Snake takes rounds 2 and 3 10/10.

I gotta disagree. Neither takes this fight for over a 7 to 10 ratio.

Snake's speed has always been insane, it's a part of his abilities set. But Twin Snakes took it to an absurd extreme. Snake is more like Dante or Neo in that game.

Slade is also absurdly fast.Like I said, he's outreacted Donna Troy, someone who can deflect heat vision (which is a considerable speed, and the fact that Slade's perceived it is down right goofy), but has several bullet-timing instances & has even reacted to a Flash in close-quarters. Now a lot of people mark every feat of him tagging a speedster as PIS, but I see it in the same way I see a lot of Midnighter feats. Sure it's goofy, but it's been a consistent part of his character from the very beginning to the reboots. Now I'm not saying he's FTL (most Flashes hold back, especially against street-levelers), but this does put him at a speed that is easily on par with Snake's extreme showings. Bart can see super-beings as still figures, the fact that he can't see Slade like that says a lot.

Slade is just better.

Defend your opinion against @nickzambuto & @beaconofstrength!

If Donna was trying to hit Deathstroke without killing him or causing serious injury, she would actually be slower

If you read Deathstroke comics you would know that Slade can't actually be killed, & that Donna would have no reason told back. He's endured massive beatings & hits from Super Boy meant to stop him (granted he was possessed by Jericho, but the point still stands), being shot in the head three times, having his heart cut out, woke up after being splattered on the ground after getting Hawkman to fly him up into the sky where he then tried to kill himself, etc. And I don't see why that would make her slower either.

@cable_extreme: Pre-52 feats are allowed in this battle

Stroke, Stroke, harder but Stroke

...That sounded dirty.

Snake wins every round

@imperfect_cell:

I don't like arguing on my own threads, but it's not exactly against the rules, so why not?

Go for it.

How so? Not only does Slade have very impressive accuracy, but he's been able to consistently tag people faster than him, & down right speedsters with ranged weaponry.

Snake is just a better gunmen. He relies on guns more, and has done more with them. Deathstroke is very accurate but there are other factors to consider in an actual battle, they aren't just taking shots at a target here. Snake is the man known for taking down Metal Gears singlehandedly. Deathstroke has never done anything like that. Metal Gears are unstoppable, bipedal war machines meant to turn the tides of an entire war, but Snake is the man who makes the impossible possible and brings them down himself.

Snake regularly fights his way through entire armies singlehandedly. And the canon fodder he fights are some of the most powerful there is, never does Snake actually hold a physical advantage against his enemies, he needs to rely on pure skill to overcome insurmountable odds. The canon fodder he fights range from genetically modified super soldiers (the Genome Army) to power suit-enhanced cyborg ninjas who deflect bullets off their swords (Arsenal Tengu) to private militias enhanced by nanomachines in their body that grants them a hive-mind and perfect teamwork while Snake himself is in the body of a 70 year old man (PMC soldiers). Not only are the canon fodder that Snake fights bullet timing peak humans-superhumans in their own right, but each group was the most highly trained and skilled military organization of their time. Sometimes Deathstroke fights superhuman armies and sometimes he fights highly skilled armies, but Snake's armies are both at the same time. He's such a skilled marksman that he can take on whole groups of bullet timers and kill them all by himself without getting shot at all. He really is one of the greatest marksman in fiction.

So Snake's canon fodder who he battles in droves are all bullet timers, but his boss enemies are actual speedsters. You say that Deathstroke has shot speedsters before and I don't recall that, are you referring to things like Slade shooting Starfire from afar while she was just flying around? Because Snake has managed to outmaneuver and tag speedsters in actual head-to-head combat. Examples of the opponents that Snake regularly faces;

1. Olga Gurlukovich - Fast enough to deflect entire clips of automatic assault rifle off of her sword at point blank range from multiple shooters at the same time. Raiden, another character who can deflect gunfire off his sword but has a slightly harder time, is unable to even react to Olga. She can vanish from entire areas in less than a second without making a sound, she is an actual speedster and also an exceptionally skilled/strategic soldier in her own right to top it all off. Snake defeated her in a gunfight, while he was only armed with a mere tranquilizer gun, a handicap that he is not burdened with against Deathstroke.
2. Solidus Snake - This is the guy that killed Olga Gurlukovich by speedblitzing her. He runs so fast that the ground underneath his feet erupts into flames whenever he sprints, he could even deflect entire barrages of vulcan canon fire off his swords fired by a master marksman. With an assault rifle, Snake was able to tactically maneuver Solidus over to a narrow pipeline, then when he was open, Snake blasted him with the grenade launcher attachment.
3. Vamp - The fastest guy in the whole Metal Gear Solid franchise who can also read muscle movements and is superhumanly agile/flexible on top. Vamp moves at imperceptible speeds, he can vanish from thin air right before someone's eyes, and was dancing around Cyborg Raiden's every move during their first fight. Vamp is even fast enough to sprint straight across water and then up a vertical tower. On top of all of this, Vamp also had nanomachines in his body that instantly healed any wound and made him nearly immortal, he could soak up bullets with ease and his only weakness seemed to be headshots. Old Snake was able to pump him with so much lead in such a quick time that he fell (only to rise again after a minute and force Snake to change his tactics, but marksmanship is what matters)

Snake was trained by Big Boss, the man known as the greatest soldier of the 20th century who is said to be proficient with virtually every weapon in existence. When Snake was still a rookie, he ended up surpassing Big Boss and killing him in a gun duel. Years later, Sniper Wolf, who was also trained by Big Boss, is said to be the deadliest sharpshooter in the world, and her sniping skill was unmatched, yet Snake beat her at her own game. The only man known to be capable of matching Snake is Revolver Ocelot, and Deathstroke is no Revolver Ocelot. Ocelot is the marksman who shot lightning out of the air. Clearly, Snake has the advantage in a gun fight.

Has Snake ever actually used stealth on someone who has superhuman senses like Deathstroke? Deathstroke isn't likely to glance over him if Snake hides in plain sight. He's seen both Atoms when they were microscopic & can sense subtle changes in the air along with a considerable degree of superhuman hearing.

Every enemy that Snake fights has superhuman senses. Every member of the Genome Army had genes identical to Big Boss, and Big Boss is the guy who could eavesdrop on conversations happening half a mile away from the top of a mountain, and who's instincts were so strong he would immediately wake up from sleeping when he somehow heard the most highly skilled unit of soldiers in the Soviet Union sneaking around outside from behind a wall. Naomi Hunter specifically stated that the Genome Soldiers have highly developed senses of hearing and vision due to their gene therapy, but Snake spent that whole game sneaking back and forth around the island for hours and making the whole army look like fools, and was only caught after being emotionally compromised by Meryl's death (it turned out she wasn't really dead though) but even then Snake ended up escaping them.

Vulcan Raven had supernaturally advanced senses, it bordered on complete clairvoyance, seeing the future n' sh!t. He was also superhumanly durable and had a huge chaingun, making a head-to-head encounter suicide for Snake, so he killed him by using stealth despite his senses and abilities.

Against an opponent like Deathstroke, Snake's most important feat is his second fight against Big Boss. Big Boss and Deathstroke are pretty comparable, in more than one way. They have a lot of similarities and are overall pretty on-par. Now when Snake met Big Boss in Zanzibar, he had already gone through Big Boss's entire army, destroyed a Metal Gear, and had a fist fight to the death with his best friend in the middle of a minefield. He lost all of his gear after an explosion set him on fire and burned everything, and he was overall just exhausted. Big Boss meanwhile was completely fresh, and was chasing Snake around with a machine gun. With no gear besides his cigarette lighter, Snake was able to sneak around and improvise a flamethrower, which he used to kill Big Boss. Considering THAT insane feat, you're telling me that Snake with full-gear and in his physical prime wouldn't be able to elude Deathstroke? Deathstroke doesn't have a good record against stealth masters anyway, Batman has ambushed him three times to my memory, two of which ended with Deathstroke being defeated.