Deathstroke vs Karate Kid

Post Deleted.

Anyone?

It's a hard one real hard,but I'ma go with KK because of his technique being futuristic.

Gonna say Karate Kid. Deathstroke has superhuman physical attributes but Karate Kid has enough "control" that he practically does as well, and even without them, all his knowledge of fighting (and experience taking down bigger threats) should make it relatively easy for him to take out a physically superior opponent. Deathstroke's weapons aren't really a problem either, and if KK manages to get his hands on them, they'll be just deadly to DS (KK knows how to use all kinds of weapons even though he primarily fights unarmed). Additionally, he has a more attack options and better use of the area thanks to his flight ring. I think a problem for him would come up if the fight dragged on. It would give DS time to really analyze KK (he's never met him or anyone like him before so he'll have no preformed ideas about him or plans to use against him, and if he does, they'd only end up hurting him) and possibly come up with ways to beat him.

Going with Karate Kid, for reason stated above. Nice avatar, Buck. I used to play that game on Sega Genesis.

I'm going with Deathstroke overall, though it would depend on the situation.

In straight up hand to hand (even if Deathstroke is armed with his sword/staff), Karate Kid wins. No doubt there in my mind.

However, how often does Deathstroke go into combat without a plan? Almost never.

Karate Kid is really good at fighting but he isn't half the strategest that Deathstroke is and Deathstroke shouldn't have to take too long thinking up a way to defeat him.

I find it amazing how most would say KK when he has nothing much more than Batman. He may be a great martial artist, who is so good that he can pit his skill against opponents with super-powers, but that's nothing different than Iron Fist, Shang Chi, or Batman has done. All other forums always have these other characters losing against DS. Other than Wolverine and Midnighter, I haven't seen an arguement go against DS as far a opponents without powers.

So why KK?

Zoom says:

"However, how often does Deathstroke go into combat without a plan?"

In a battle thread? Every time he's not explicitly given prep time. And since he wasn't this time, he doesn't have it.

Alpha says:

"I find it amazing how most would say KK when he has nothing much more than Batman. He may be a great martial artist, who is so good that he can pit his skill against opponents with super-powers, but that's nothing different than Iron Fist, Shang Chi, or Batman has done. All other forums always have these other characters losing against DS. Other than Wolverine and Midnighter, I haven't seen an arguement go against DS as far a opponents without powers.So why KK? "

When Iron Fist, Shang Chi and Batman start punching down mountains, punching through adamantium (ok, maybe not adamantium, but inertron is probably the strongest metal in the future DC [took all of superboy and mon-el's strength to break it] and KK can punch through it), beating up enemies that give Superman trouble, etc, then they'll be doing things that are "nothing different" than what KK does.

KK is much more than Batman. He's the best fighter in his universe

I'm gonna go with Karate Kid as well. Cassandra Cain has repeatedly given Deathstroke problems, as has Nightwing. Both of which are not on KK's level. I thought at first speed may be a factor, but as I said Cassandra Cain easily avoided Deathstroke. A case could be made for Slade but in the end it would be for nothing.

so....um considering the previous posts.....I made a curbstomp battle thread didn't I? lol

Nighthunter says:

"so....um considering the previous posts.....I made a curbstomp battle thread didn't I? lol"

I don't believe its a curbstomp. I just think a better case can be made for KK.

Gambler says:

"Nighthunter says:

"so....um considering the previous posts.....I made a curbstomp battle thread didn't I? lol"

I don't believe its a curbstomp. I just think a better case can be made for KK."

oh ok lol

Nighthunter says:

"so....um considering the previous posts.....I made a curbstomp battle thread didn't I? lol"

I wouldn't call it a curbstomp. Unlike the superpowered characters KK has shown well against, DS actually knows how to fight and he is more than quick enough and agile enough to give him a chance to prolong the fight until he can come up with a way to defeat KK. KK has all of the normal weaknesses of a normal human being and if DS can get KK to fall into a trap, that he designs on the spur of the moment, then DS would have a chance of beating him. But the odds certainly do favor KK.

i say deathstroke kk may be a better one on one hand to hand fighter but in fights its never about going blazing in using brute force its about studiying your opponent exploiting his weaknesses takin the right plan of action and in a fight those with the best strategies usually win and deathstroke is that type of guy he will easily come up with a plan to take down kk plus deathstroke is still a very good one on one combatant and more than capable of holding his own.

soul taker says:

"i say deathstroke kk may be a better one on one hand to hand fighter but in fights its never about going blazing in using brute force its about studiying your opponent exploiting his weaknesses takin the right plan of action and in a fight those with the best strategies usually win and deathstroke is that type of guy he will easily come up with a plan to take down kk plus deathstroke is still a very good one on one combatant and more than capable of holding his own."

Thing is, KK doesn't go "blazing in using brute force". Just because he can knock down a building with a punch doesn't mean he's all about power. Sometimes when he's doing his best feats he's talking (or thinking) about what goes into the things he does. Control, precision, exploitation of weaknesses, positioning, balance, leverage, reading body language, and other things he uses throughout a fight (and not just the instant he lands a punch). He knows how to measure up his opponents (or obstacles) and figure out the best way to beat them. You think KK became as good a fighter as he is without knowing how to study his opponents or planning ahead while fighting? Really? Just because he's a physical fighter doesn't mean he's not a smart one. Good fighters always think several moves ahead, Karate Kid, being the best, should at least be able to do that. He may not have Deathstroke's mind, but he didn't get where he is by not thinking things through.

Forever says:

"I wouldn't call it a curbstomp. Unlike the superpowered characters KK has shown well against, DS actually knows how to fight and he is more than quick enough and agile enough to give him a chance to prolong the fight until he can come up with a way to defeat KK. KK has all of the normal weaknesses of a normal human being and if DS can get KK to fall into a trap, that he designs on the spur of the moment, then DS would have a chance of beating him. But the odds certainly do favor KK."

While most of the people he fights rely more on their powers, KK has fought some skilled fighters. None of them are as notorious as Deathstroke because the 31st century isn't as fleshed out as present day DC (and minor/guest characters are fleshed out even less), but that doesn't mean they were unskilled. He's fought assassins (super powered and normal), Nemesis Kid (with all of KK's fighting skill and knowledge), Atomic Knights, countless soldiers throughout the years (he's faced enough soldiers from multiple galaxies that I'm sure at least some of them were decent fighters), Emerald Empress (a version that was a trained killer and mass-murderer), and more. He's also fought (this should be obvious) anyone who's ever trained him. If he's mastered every fighting style there is to know, that's a lot of people, and they must have been at least somewhat skilled for him to be learning from them. Some people get credit for being trained by Shiva, Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, and whoever else. Karate Kid has been trained by people like that from all over this galaxy and others. Do you think someone who's said to be the best fighter in DC can't handle someone else who knows how to fight?

As for speed, he's been able to fight with Ultra Boy, Superboy, Mon-El and others with super speed (in fights where they actually used it) that's greater than Deathstroke's, as well as regularly dodge lasers, lighting and whatever is thrown at him. I think some of that might be iffy, but it's enough for me to say he won't be stunned by Deathstroke's speed.

Plus, Deathstroke doesn't have anything to match Karate Kid's collar. Ok, maybe the boots, but that's a stretch.

Ketch says:

"Plus, Deathstroke doesn't have anything to match Karate Kid's collar. Ok, *maybe* the boots, but that's a stretch. "

Hahahaha

I say Karate Kid. Deathstroke is really badazz himself but Karate Kid has hung with Superboy. And Deathstroke has at time had trouble with Cassie.

Deathstroke has hung with Wonder Woman. If we're basing victory off from KK hanging with Superboy...... Wonder Woman > Superboy.
Post Edited:2008-03-12 19:36:42

Gambler says:

"Deathstroke has hung with Wonder Woman. If we're basing victory off from KK hanging with Superboy...... Wonder Woman > Superboy.
Post Edited:2008-03-12 19:36:42"

Ah. Good Point

King Saturn says:

"Gambler says:

"Deathstroke has hung with Wonder Woman. If we're basing victory off from KK hanging with Superboy...... Wonder Woman > Superboy.
Post Edited:2008-03-12 19:36:42"

Ah. Good Point"

Not really.

How often has DS "hung with" (describe or show what that means please) Wonder Woman? I've seen one fight where he's going all out against her (while she's in heels and a dress and in the snow no less :P) and she's trying not to kill him and also says she can shake off his best blows. Then when she actually starts fighting and using her powers (like strength) she lays him out with a single shot to the stomach. DS couldn't take Batgirl but he's on Wonder Woman's level? Even if the beginning of the fight (before she beats him) is good enough, he did that once. Karate Kid has faced multiple Kryptonians/Daxamites (and other super humans approaching their power levels) numerous times, and they usually use their powers.

Buckshot says:

"While most of the people he fights rely more on their powers, KK has fought some skilled fighters. None of them are as notorious as Deathstroke because the 31st century isn't as fleshed out as present day DC (and minor/guest characters are fleshed out even less), but that doesn't mean they were unskilled. He's fought assassins (super powered and normal), Nemesis Kid (with all of KK's fighting skill and knowledge), Atomic Knights, countless soldiers throughout the years (he's faced enough soldiers from multiple galaxies that I'm sure at least some of them were decent fighters), Emerald Empress (a version that was a trained killer and mass-murderer), and more. He's also fought (this should be obvious) anyone who's ever trained him. If he's mastered every fighting style there is to know, that's a lot of people, and they must have been at least somewhat skilled for him to be learning from them. Some people get credit for being trained by Shiva, Richard Dragon, Bronze Tiger, and whoever else. Karate Kid has been trained by people like that from all over this galaxy and others. Do you think someone who's said to be the best fighter in DC can't handle someone else who knows how to fight? As for speed, he's been able to fight with Ultra Boy, Superboy, Mon-El and others with super speed (in fights where they actually used it) that's greater than Deathstroke's, as well as regularly dodge lasers, lighting and whatever is thrown at him. I think some of that might be iffy, but it's enough for me to say he won't be stunned by Deathstroke's speed. "

I dont disagree with any of that and it's hard because we have to try and separate what is really within a character's capability against when the writers have one character job for another. If we take Deathstroke's quickness when matched up against speedsters at face value then I would think that plus the skill he has exhibited would give him a chance at prolonging the fight. Even Nemesis Kid and any of the fighters who trained KK, were any of them as quick as Deathstroke is portrayed as being? Ultra Boy and Superboy are much quicker but in those fights against KK, how much of their super speed are they using? We can assume that they are moving as fast as possible or they could simply be moving at lower level speeds that would be too fast for a normal human to deal with, but may not even be at the levels of quickness that DS has shown.

KK is supposed to have a normal, 30th Century body, and anything he does comes from pure technique and skill. So Deathstroke should be able to, (youre right) not surprise KK, but press him with the blend of speed and skill that he has at his disposal. But of course all I'm saying is that it isn't a curbstomp because we all know KK would most likely win.

But to your point that KK has been trained by the best, I dont disagree with that at all. I take DC for face value as well, when they have their martial artists getting continually better over the centuries. I think in real life that there is an ebb and flow instead of a continual increase, in something of that nature. If the best martial artist of this time could be found, I'm not so certain that he would defeat the best martial artist of the 13th Century, even though we would think that his training is more well rounded and robust in that he has probably learned from more disciplines and has a broader range of attacks and defenses to utilize. But that may not be the case. Back then the world was more warlike and the older martial artist would have had more practical life and death experience and thus may have attacks and counters that arent even in the styles of today.

But that's a side topic that could be debated at another time. I think that even though KK is far more skilled than DS, DS's speed advantage may serve him well enough to keep him in the fight and I think that there is a slim chance that with that and the computer like use of his brain that he could pull out a victory. Very slim and highly unlikely but still a possibility.

Post Deleted.

 Buckshot says:

"How often has DS "hung with" (describe or show what that means please) Wonder Woman? I've seen one fight where he's going all out against her (while she's in heels and a dress and in the snow no less :P) and she's trying *not* to kill him and also says she can shake off his *best* blows. "

First let me start out by saying I wasn't using that example for anything other then showing the people who kept saying KK held his own against Superboy, that Slade had accomplished a similar feet. But how many times has that happened? Since there both heroes (and it was KK's induction) there are obvious plot devices behind this fight. Maybe you could describe it or show it? Not sure why Wonder Woman not trying to kill Slade somehow diminishes that fight, while KK fighting Superboy (who isn't trying to kill him either) is somehow not subject to the same scrutiny. Of course she can shake off his blows, but the fact that he actually lands any shots at all is the point. She takes the heels off before the fight even gets going. The dress Slade admits slows her down at first and he takes more then one shot before going down.

Buckshot says:

" DS couldn't take Batgirl but he's on Wonder Woman's level? "

Not sure I ever said he was on Wonder Woman's level, simply that he did hang with her. Batgirl is another story entirely. He's fast enough to defeat various versions of the Flash, can escape Superman and impress him with his speed and agility, yet he cant defeat Batgirl? If I remeber correctly he was trying to get her to join him.

Buckshot says:

" Karate Kid has faced multiple Kryptonians/Daxamites (and other super humans approaching their power levels) numerous times, and they usually *use* their powers. "

I'm not making a case against Karate Kid. If you go back and read my posts leading up to the Wonder Woman statement you'll see that. But since we're on the subject, the last Kryptonian I saw KK face was Supergirl, and he did jack squat against her.

Did someone say Deathstroke was on Wonder Woman's level? WTF

Vance Astro says:

"Did someone say Deathstroke was on Wonder Woman's level? WTF"

Read the posts and find out.

Deathstroke

Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Did someone say Deathstroke was on Wonder Woman's level? WTF"

Read the posts and find out."

I was just making extra reference to how ridiculous it was I know you said it.

Vance Astro says:

"Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Did someone say Deathstroke was on Wonder Woman's level? WTF"

Read the posts and find out."

I was just making extra reference to how ridiculous it was I know you said it."

What? Can you show me where exactly I say, "Deathstroke/Slade is on Wonder Woman's level"

Please I would really like to see this.

Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Did someone say Deathstroke was on Wonder Woman's level? WTF"

Read the posts and find out."

I was just making extra reference to how ridiculous it was I know you said it."

What? Can you show me where exactly I say, "Deathstroke/Slade is on Wonder Woman's level" Please I would really like to see this."

Vance Astro says:

"Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Did someone say Deathstroke was on Wonder Woman's level? WTF"

Read the posts and find out."

I was just making extra reference to how ridiculous it was I know you said it."

What? Can you show me where exactly I say, "Deathstroke/Slade is on Wonder Woman's level" Please I would really like to see this."

You said he has hung with her."

Lmao. If you interpret that as me saying there on the same level then there's nothing I can do about that. I was responding to a post that seem to imply that simply because KK held his own against Superboy (which is a loose interpretation) that it automatically gives him the win. Never said Deathstroke was on WW's level. Hanging with someone in one fight, and being on there level are two different things. I would have thought that was obvious.
Post Edited:2008-03-13 11:16:01

Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Gambler says:

"Vance Astro says:

"Did someone say Deathstroke was on Wonder Woman's level? WTF"

Read the posts and find out."

I was just making extra reference to how ridiculous it was I know you said it."

What? Can you show me where exactly I say, "Deathstroke/Slade is on Wonder Woman's level" Please I would really like to see this."

You said he has hung with her."

Lmao. If you interpret that as me saying there on the same level then there's nothing I can do about that. I was responding to a post that seem to imply that simple because KK held his own against Superboy (which is a loose interpretation) that it automatically gives him the win. Never said Deathstroke was on WW's level. Hanging with someone in one fight, and being on there level are two different things. I would have thought that was obvious."

Either way my point wasn't to say with either Karate Kid holding his own against Superboy,and DS hanging with WW..is that something they can actually do or is that bad writing?

Don't have time right now, but I'll be back later.

Buckshot says:

"Don't have time right now, but I'll be back later."

LMFAO, with that avatar that statement is borderline terrifying.

Buckshot says:

"Zoom says:

" However, how often does Deathstroke go into combat without a plan?"

In a battle thread? Every time he's not explicitly given prep time. And since he wasn't this time, he doesn't have it. Alpha says:

"I find it amazing how most would say KK when he has nothing much more than Batman. He may be a great martial artist, who is so good that he can pit his skill against opponents with super-powers, but that's nothing different than Iron Fist, Shang Chi, or Batman has done. All other forums always have these other characters losing against DS. Other than Wolverine and Midnighter, I haven't seen an arguement go against DS as far a opponents without powers. So why KK? "

When Iron Fist, Shang Chi and Batman start punching down mountains, punching through adamantium (ok, maybe not adamantium, but inertron is probably the strongest metal in the future DC [took all of superboy and mon-el's strength to break it] and KK can punch through it), beating up enemies that give Superman trouble, etc, then they'll be doing things that are "nothing different" than what KK does. KK is much more than Batman. He's the best fighter in his universe "

Are we talking about the KK that Batman fought to a stand still?

I believe he was being mind controlled at the time, as well as dying.

Gambler says:

"I believe he was being mind controlled at the time, as well as dying."

But he had access to his skill. Even so Superman had him listed as a 15 and Batman 12. A 3 point diff. So 3 points from Bats means you can knock down mountains?

Deathstroke.

Midnight Lantern says:

"Deathstroke."

Make a case. A good one this time.

Gambler says:

"Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"I believe he was being mind controlled at the time, as well as dying."

But he had access to his skill. Even so Superman had him listed as a 15 and Batman 12. A 3 point diff. So 3 points from Bats means you can knock down mountains?"

Apparently. That coupled with his showings."

That's why I asked if we are talking about the old KK (pre-crisis) or the new one.

Alpha says:

"Gambler says:

"I believe he was being mind controlled at the time, as well as dying."

But he had access to his skill. Even so Superman had him listed as a 15 and Batman 12. A 3 point diff. So 3 points from Bats means you can knock down mountains?"

Apparently. That coupled with his showings.

Are they not one in the same?

Gambler says:

"Are they not one in the same?"

No. Like Darkseid and others, its been said that there has been a significant down grade.

Has there been in recent comics showing that level of power?

I know he tried to kich Supergirl and had no better effect than Batman would have.

So then was Deathstroke down graded as well? But I'm not sure as to which KK is in this fight.

Gambler says:

"So then was Deathstroke down graded as well? But I'm not sure as to which KK is in this fight. "

Not sure, but fighting DS and even winning isn't knocking down mountains.

So you wanna know if there's any recent feats of KK that would equal the power required to knock down a mountain? I can check but it may take a couple minutes.

I got to give this to DS. I mean, Deathstroke makes an attack at the speed of thought.

I have a couple more but I believe this one is should be good enough. You also have to remeber KK has the ability to see the weakest point in objects. This may also explain his punching mountains and what have you.

KK has been shown dodging people who are faster then Deathstroke.