DS win.
Deathstroke vs. Captain America
I can't show feats but it is said that Slade is superhuman ( i think he can lift up to 5 tons) and he has super speed etc... Cap is at peak lvls so there is a high difference between them...imo....=] "I've never seen him lift anything close to five tons. His speed is only borderline superhuman. Nothing that Cap can't deal with.
That was only for one fight, though. Not the other two." @Static Shock: His fights with Cassie were him trying to get Ravager to fight her he wanted them to fight he never had any intentions of fighting Cassie Cassie was for Rose that was the whole. point.
" Good work, Static. "
Thanks.
@Son_of_Magnus said:
When has displayed true precognition? O_o Also, I've seen Deathstroke taken out by bullets whenever the armor he wears is underperformed by the writer.His brain does not work like Midnighter's it work's differently it work's like Superman were it can process more and faster it has been said how he can run all of sorts of equations and what not through his head at once and he has displayed pre cog be fore that is what I mean this allows him to be thinking of a whole crap load of things while the fight is going on keeping his mind on the fight as well as working out his next one hundred steps and escape route.
" @spidey 15 said:Neither do i but this is because i'm not interested in DC....i'm prett sure someone could have any feat that shows Slade's strength....=]I can't show feats but it is said that Slade is superhuman ( i think he can lift up to 5 tons) and he has super speed etc... Cap is at peak lvls so there is a high difference between them...imo....=] "I've never seen him lift anything close to five tons. His speed is only borderline superhuman. Nothing that Cap can't deal with. "
Also strength and speed isn't all......Slade has also his gadgets.....i'm not sure if cap could handle slade's gadgets and at the same time try to handle his skills and superior physical stats....=]
"Also strength and speed isn't all......Slade has also his gadgets.....i'm not sure if cap could handle slade's gadgets and at the same time try to handle his skills and superior physical stats....=] "You mean weapons. With Cap's shield, he could deflect any bullets, as well as any shots from the blasting staff. What makes Slade superior to Cap?
" @spidey 15 said:Yes....=]"Also strength and speed isn't all......Slade has also his gadgets.....i'm not sure if cap could handle slade's gadgets and at the same time try to handle his skills and superior physical stats....=] "You mean weapons. With Cap's shield, he could deflect any bullets, as well as any shots from the blasting staff. What makes Slade superior to Cap? "
I didn't say that his weapons will affect him at all...i was just saying that his weapons will be a help to try to slow him down....i believe he can do it since his tactical mind will let him to find his way to do it...=]
Also his super reflexes( that actually come from his ability to use the 90% of his brain) can give him a certain degree of precognition that will make him fast to avoid most of cap's attacks...=]
He is in a certain degree superior physically to cap but since i can't really proved that i won't try to argue about it.....=]
" Slade is fast enough to tag the Flash, can use 100% of his brain capacity, and is probably Olympic level strength. "He can only tag the Flash if he's moving at sub-sonic speeds. Deathstroke doesn't use 100% of his brain, and he's stronger than Olympic level.
Also his super reflexes( that actually come from his ability to use the 90% of his brain) can give him a certain degree of precognition that will make him fast to avoid most of cap's attacksHe doesn't have precognition. His reflexes are enough for him to dodge bullets or see them move in slow motion. If he had precog, Batgirl wouldn't have been able to trade punches with him.
" @spidey 15 said:That isn't dterminated yet.....having the ability to use 90% of his brain could give you amazing reflexes that ALMOST could be a precognition....having precognition or not he still fast enoughto avoid cap....=]Also his super reflexes( that actually come from his ability to use the 90% of his brain) can give him a certain degree of precognition that will make him fast to avoid most of cap's attacksHe doesn't have precognition. His reflexes are enough for him to dodge bullets or see them move in slow motion. If he had precog, Batgirl wouldn't have been able to trade punches with him. "
" Slade wins very easily, now please let this thread die already. "Not sure how Slade wins very easily... If this were the case, someone would have been able to make a compelling argument for him by now.
" @spidey 15: Against Cap, he's not going to be that fast. He's been tagged by Batman, Nightwing, Cassandra Cain, Bronze Tiger, and many others. "Well....i think Cassandra isn't the prefect example cause i believe she is faster than cap....i could be wrong of course....=]
Anyway...yes cap is able to hit him but also is Slade.....so if he combined his weapons with his speed( which i believe is above cap's) and his skills then there is a huge possibilty that cap will lose even if he has his shield...=]
" Well....i think Cassandra isn't the prefect example cause i believe she is faster than cap....i could be wrong of course....=] Anyway...yes cap is able to hit him but also is Slade.....so if he combined his weapons with his speed( which i believe is above cap's) and his skills then there is a huge possibilty that cap will lose even if he has his shield...=] "What makes Deathstroke's speed greater than Cap's?
" @spidey 15 said:" Well....i think Cassandra isn't the prefect example cause i believe she is faster than cap....i could be wrong of course....=] Anyway...yes cap is able to hit him but also is Slade.....so if he combined his weapons with his speed( which i believe is above cap's) and his skills then there is a huge possibilty that cap will lose even if he has his shield...=] "What makes Deathstroke's speed greater than Cap's? "
That's a good question...lol
Well in page 5 has some scans that proves that he is really fast...if not faster than cap at least he could be equals in speed....i doubt if he is inferior........=]
" That's a good question...lol Well in page 5 has some scans that proves that he is really fast...if not faster than cap at least he could be equals in speed....i doubt if he is inferior........=] "I'll never say that Slade is inferior. He's at least equal, and if his speed is greater, it's not to the point that Cap couldn't keep up with him in battle.
" @spidey 15 said:But i didn't say with speed alone he will beat cap...as i said with his weapons he can try to slow down cap and then with his speed and skills he can beat him...=]" That's a good question...lol Well in page 5 has some scans that proves that he is really fast...if not faster than cap at least he could be equals in speed....i doubt if he is inferior........=] "I'll never say that Slade is inferior. He's at least equal, and if his speed is greater, it's not to the point that Cap couldn't keep up with him in battle. "
I just see Slade having some extra advantages...=]
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:Slade doesn't need a compelling argument here, since he already outclasses Cap in strength, speed/agility, reflexes, advanced H2H skills and marksmanship." Slade wins very easily, now please let this thread die already. "Not sure how Slade wins very easily... If this were the case, someone would have been able to make a compelling argument for him by now."
Marksmanship doesn't really matter, since Cap doesn't use firearms. But, I haven't seen anything that would make Slade greater than Cap. Absolutely nothing. Deathstroke H2H skills aren't even that advanced, and he isn't even a top DCU fighter. Cap is a master of every style known to man. He said it himself. Slade couldn't even trade punches with Cassandra, and Bronze Tiger held his own against him, H2H. Green Arrow stalemated him in a swordfight, as well. Nothing advanced about his ability to fight. Agility is debatable, although Slade had like one impressive agility while Superman was chasing him, while Cap has had several. Reflexes are debatable, too. They can both react faster than humans, and time bullets. Not seeing an advantage for Slade there, either."Slade doesn't need a compelling argument here, since he already outclasses Cap in strength, speed/agility, reflexes, advanced H2H skills
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:For the part in bold i would give the edge in Slade......the ability to use 90% of your brain can help you think amazing fast....so logicaly slade would have better reflexes.....=]Marksmanship doesn't really matter, since Cap doesn't use firearms. But, I haven't seen anything that would make Slade greater than Cap. Absolutely nothing. Deathstroke H2H skills aren't even that advanced, and he isn't even a top DCU fighter. Cap is a master of every style known to man. He said it himself. Slade couldn't even trade punches with Cassandra, and Bronze Tiger held his own against him, H2H. Green Arrow stalemated him in a swordfight, as well. Nothing advanced about his ability to fight. Agility is debatable, although Slade had like one impressive agility while Superman was chasing him, while Cap has had several. Reflexes are debatable, too. They can both react faster than humans, and time bullets. Not seeing an advantage for Slade there, either. ""Slade doesn't need a compelling argument here, since he already outclasses Cap in strength, speed/agility, reflexes, advanced H2H skills
"For the part in bold i would give the edge in Slade......the ability to use 90% of your brain can help you think amazing fast....so logicaly slade would have better reflexes.....=] "Some would think. However, he hasn't really has dodged anything other than bullets, and tagged the Flash at sub-sonic speeds. I don't find his reflexes that impressive, to be honest.
" @The Mjolnir Wielder said:He's pulled a cable that, as indicated, would normally take the combined strength of 100 men. As far as I know, that feat alone trumps anything Cap has ever done strength-wise. Kingpin has even been able to keep Cap on the defensive before and was matching him speed-wise throughout their entire fight. Sorry, but there's no way he's on the same level as Slade in anything that relates to that category. I don't mean to be offensive here, Static, but you evidently don't know too much about Slade if you honestly don't consider him being an elite fighter in the DCU, or even Natas' top pupil."Slade doesn't need a compelling argument here, since he already outclasses Cap in strength, speed/agility, reflexes, advanced H2H skillsMarksmanship doesn't really matter, since Cap doesn't use firearms. But, I haven't seen anything that would make Slade greater than Cap. Absolutely nothing. Deathstroke H2H skills aren't even that advanced, and he isn't even a top DCU fighter. Cap is a master of every style known to man. He said it himself. "
That feat was an Elseworld's showing. Deathstroke isn't THAT strong. LOL. Kingpin has also been able to keep Spider-Man on the defensive, as well, even though Spidey outclasses him. He did the same against Daredevil, too, who is obviously faster than him. Kingpin gives everyone a fight, as far as I'm concerned. You can't tell me that Cap isn't on Deathstroke's level if you're unable to prove that. I know enough about Slade, and there's offense taken at all. Being Natas' top pupil doesn't really tell me much, if Green Arrow went and got the same training from him and ended up stalemating Deathstroke in a swordfight. Does that make Green Arrow an elite fighter now? Deathstroke is not an elite fighter, and when fighting against elite fighters, he comes up short."He's pulled a cable that, as indicated, would normally take the combined strength of 100 men. As far as I know, that feat alone trumps anything Cap has ever done strength-wise. Kingpin has even been able to keep Cap on the defensive before and was matching him speed-wise throughout their entire fight. Sorry, but there's no way he's on the same level as Slade in anything that relates to that category. I don't mean to be offensive here, Static, but you evidently don't know too much about Slade if you honestly don't consider him being an elite fighter in the DCU, or even Natas' top pupil. "
If Slade is so much better than Cap, you're gonna have to show me. That's all I'm saying.
" @spidey 15 said:Indeed but considering this ability is logical for slade to have some reflexes above cap....we can't really cancel that possibility...=]"For the part in bold i would give the edge in Slade......the ability to use 90% of your brain can help you think amazing fast....so logicaly slade would have better reflexes.....=] "Some would think. However, he hasn't really has dodged anything other than bullets, and tagged the Flash at sub-sonic speeds. I don't find his reflexes that impressive, to be honest. "
"Indeed but considering this ability is logical for slade to have some reflexes above cap....we can't really cancel that possibility...=] "It's a possibility, not a certainty. :)
" @spidey 15 said:Well...i don't have anything else to say..."Indeed but considering this ability is logical for slade to have some reflexes above cap....we can't really cancel that possibility...=] "It's a possibility, not a certainty. :) "
I just expressed my opinions so.... have a nice day....=]
"@The Mjolnir Wielder said:1. When going all out, Spider-Man has been able to run rings around Kingpin before.That feat was an Elseworld's showing. Deathstroke isn't THAT strong. LOL. Kingpin has also been able to keep Spider-Man on the defensive, as well, even though Spidey outclasses him. He did the same against Daredevil, too, who is obviously faster than him. Kingpin gives everyone a fight, as far as I'm concerned. You can't tell me that Cap isn't on Deathstroke's level if you're unable to prove that. I know enough about Slade, and there's offense taken at all. Being Natas' top pupil doesn't really tell me much, if Green Arrow went and got the same training from him and ended up stalemating Deathstroke in a swordfight. Does that make Green Arrow an elite fighter now?Deathstroke is not an elite fighter, and when fighting against elite fighters, he comes up short. If Slade is so much better than Cap, you're gonna have to show me. That's all I'm saying. ""He's pulled a cable that, as indicated, would normally take the combined strength of 100 men. As far as I know, that feat alone trumps anything Cap has ever done strength-wise. Kingpin has even been able to keep Cap on the defensive before and was matching him speed-wise throughout their entire fight. Sorry, but there's no way he's on the same level as Slade in anything that relates to that category. I don't mean to be offensive here, Static, but you evidently don't know too much about Slade if you honestly don't consider him being an elite fighter in the DCU, or even Natas' top pupil. "
2. What speed feats does Cap have that are on par with Slade's?
3. I'm sorry that offended you, but I have a lot of respect for you as a debater regardless.
4. Ollie had a considerable amount of preparation coming into that fight, and surprised Slade with his new techniques. Slade had to adjust to the style midway through, and still managed to get the upper hand at the end. Besides, ollie was wearing special boots that enhanced his agility and overall quickness.
5. He's beaten Nightwing three times in the same issue before, has nearly killed Batman and has stalemated Cassie Cain on two separate occasions (he was clearly holding back in their first encounter).
1) Yes, when going all out. Under normal conditions, that is not the case.1. When going all out, Spider-Man has been able to run rings around Kingpin before.
2. What speed feats does Cap have that are on par with Slade's?
3. I'm sorry that offended you, but I have a lot of respect for you as a debater regardless.
4. Ollie had a considerable amount of preparation coming into that fight, and surprised Slade with his new techniques. Slade had to adjust to the style midway through, and still managed to get the upper hand at the end. Besides, ollie was wearing special boots that enhanced his agility and overall quickness.
5. He's beaten Nightwing three times in the same issue before, has nearly killed Batman and has stalemated Cassie Cain on two separate occasions (he was clearly holding back in their first encounter). "
2) I have better question. What speed feats does Slade actually have other dodging bullets and Starbolts with an undefined speed?
3) Thanks. I respect you, as well. There was a typo in there. I meant to say 'no offense taken'. :P
4) I remember the prep, but the boots is something I overlooked.
5) I do remember him beating Nightwing, but that's only because he's physically superior, not because he's more skilled. The same goes for Batman, who has actually displayed better feats of martial arts than Slade has. I also recall Slade losing a fight with another person after his bout with Batman, due to the fact that Batman inflicted too much damage on him. I don't recall him actually stalemating her. In fact, when he tried to trade punches with her, she countered everything, and tagged him, as a result. He was unable to get a bead on her with his guns, and resorted to blowing up the building, instead. I can agree that he was holding back in one fight, though, just so Ravager could fight her.
Also, who cares if Cap stated that he's mastered every style known to man? Cyclops has claimed in the past that his optic beams can tear through a small planet with ease, but are we inclined to believe that as well?
" Also, who cares if Cap stated that he's mastered every style known to man? "Me, especially when the Handbook has his fighting skill listed as a 7. As for the Cyclops thing, I don't know what to say about that.
"1. Dodging and countering a Flash speed blitz (even at relatively slower speeds for him) is a more impressive feat than I've ever seen from Steve1) Yes, when going all out. Under normal conditions, that is not the case. 2) I have better question. What speed feats does Slade actually have other dodging bullets and Starbolts with an undefined speed? 3) Thanks. I respect you, as well. There was a typo in there. I meant to say 'no offense taken'. :P 4) I remember the prep, but the boots is something I overlooked.5) I do remember him beating Nightwing, but that's only because he's physically superior, not because he's more skilled. The same goes for Batman, who has actually displayed better feats of martial arts than Slade has. I also recall Slade losing a fight with another person after his bout with Batman, due to the fact that Batman inflicted too much damage on him. I don't recall him actually stalemating her. In fact, when he tried to trade punches with her, she countered everything, and tagged him, as a result. He was unable to get a bead on her with his guns, and resorted to blowing up the building, instead. I can agree that he was holding back in one fight, though, just so Ravager could fight her. "1. When going all out, Spider-Man has been able to run rings around Kingpin before.
2. What speed feats does Cap have that are on par with Slade's?
3. I'm sorry that offended you, but I have a lot of respect for you as a debater regardless.
4. Ollie had a considerable amount of preparation coming into that fight, and surprised Slade with his new techniques. Slade had to adjust to the style midway through, and still managed to get the upper hand at the end. Besides, ollie was wearing special boots that enhanced his agility and overall quickness.
5. He's beaten Nightwing three times in the same issue before, has nearly killed Batman and has stalemated Cassie Cain on two separate occasions (he was clearly holding back in their first encounter). "
2. Sorry, that's my bad
3. Yeah, but the same thing could be said about Steve (he is, after all, physicall enhanced as well).
4. Cassie's bodliy reactions allowed her to take control in one of their fights, but he showed that he's more than capable of holding his own against her. Slade's also toyed with Black Canary before, and she's arguably more skilled than Batman.
The fact is Slade has already defeated better fighters than Cap the easy answer is read Teen Titans East Saga
" The fact is Slade has already defeated better fighters than Cap the easy answer is read Teen Titans East Saga "Who fights better than Cap? Not Batman. Not Nightwing, either.
1) There's nothing impressive about dodging and tagging a Flash moving at sub-sonic speeds. It's as easy as sticking your hand out in front of him.
2) The only problem is that not only is he physically enhanced, but he's a master of several fighting styles. He's not able to fighting against Black Panther, Red Skull, and Wolverine for nothing. All of them are enhanced, too. In fact, Wolverine is borderline superhuman and Cap kept up with him in fight twice. Cap has been able hold his own against those that outclass him as well, using their own leverage against them (Starfox, Hulk at base-level strength, Thunderstrike, etc). When it comes to fighting street-levelers at an enhanced level, and those further, Cap has it. There's no reason to think that he couldn't fight Deathstroke. Then there's his shield mastery on top of that.
3) All I remember is Slade slipping a cloth over her face. Other than that, I don't see how she's more skilled than Batman. At the very least, she's equal.
@Xi Felix said:
" (I meant to ask this yesterday when I made this very same thread without knowing it was already made) Why are people giving such an overwhelming nod to Deathstroke over Captain America? "I don't know, to be honest.
@Xi Felix said:" (I meant to ask this yesterday when I made this very same thread without knowing it was already made) Why are people giving such an overwhelming nod to Deathstroke over Captain America? "I don't know, to be honest. "
And I'm quite anxious to know because I'm very familiar with Deathstroke(and fairly familiar with Captain America), and also a HUGE Deathstroke fan. All that being said, I haven't really seen anything to suggest Captain America can't take him(the only outstanding advantage I could think of in Deathstroke's favor would be ruthlesness, but at the same time I think Cap could easily compensate with his *arguably* superior martial arts proficiency).
" @Static Shock: Okay, here's the way I see it, and you're welcome to agree or disagree at your leisure. Deathstroke has defeated BatMan before. He's also fought against multiple allies of BatMan all at once. He's a very skilled fighter and has some superhuman attributes. In my opinion, BatMan is a better fighter than Deathstroke. He wouldn't be too much more skilled, but he is more disciplined and more skilled in martial arts than Deathstroke is. The reason Deathstroke was able to defeat BatMan, despite BatMan's superiority in combat, is his superhuman attributes. BatMan is only peak human. He's been able to break cuffs, lift heavy weights, punch through bazooka proof glass, dodge bullets, and so on. He's done things that Captain America can do. Now, I would say that even though BatMan is peak human, Cap has slightly greater physical prowess than BatMan. Cap wouldn't outweigh Bats in physical power by much, since Cap isn't superhuman, but he is ahead of him by a slight degree. Deathstroke, as I said, is superhuman. He has degrees of superhuman strength, speed, agility, reflexes, durability, healing, and mental processes accelerated by a factor of 9. He's also more than willing to kill his opponents. In a fight against BatMan, I think that Deathstroke could hold his own even if he didn't have superhuman attributes. Without his enhancements, BatMan would win, because, again, I think BatMan is a somewhat more skilled fighter, but Deathstroke could give Bats a decent fight even without his enhancements. With his superhuman physical powers on top of his combat skill, he has a significant advantage over BatMan. I've always considered Bats an equal fighter with Cap, putting Cap slightly ahead of Bats in physical conditioning, Bats ahead in intelligence, and Cap's shield and Bats's gadgets cancelling each other out (some people disagree, but that's where I stand). Understanding that, Cap could fight Deathstroke, holding his own fairly well. In BatMan's fight with Deathstroke, he didn't use his equipment really. He fought him strictly hand to hand. Because Deathstroke is superhuman, he had the edge in that fight. If Bats had been a little more crafty, developing a strategy as he went after Deathstroke and utilizing his gadgets, I think he very well may have been able to do a little better against Slade. I'm not entirely sure he would've won (although I wouldn't be surprised if he did), but he could've at least done better than he did. Cap uses his shield constantly. He'll use it in his fight with Deathstroke guaranteed (and as I said, I consider his shield to cancel out with Bats's gadgets). Thus, as I said, if Bats had used his equipment and tactical abilities a little better, he could have done better in that fight. The same applies for Cap. He will use his shield, which will increase his chances for winning. I do agree that people probably are singling Cap out of this too easily, but overall, based on Deathstroke's powers, I would give him the fight. Cap will give Slade one his toughest fights, but overall, I think Deathstroke will take it after a very long, bloody fight. So basically, to sum this up, Cap/Bats > Deathstroke in fighting skills. Bats/Cap > Deathstroke in equipment. Bats/Cap < Deathstroke in physical prowess. Bats/Cap < Deathstroke in willingness to kill. Deathstroke would limp away from his long fight with Captain America, but I do think that eventually, Slade will take the win. "Got tired reading this but I actually agree... :D
1 request though.... Please use different paragraphs next time? It's much easier reading it that way.
Got tired reading this but I actually agree... :D 1 request though.... Please use different paragraphs next time? It's much easier reading it that way. "Oh, okay. Sorry about that.
Why does Cap have better equipment than Deathstroke?
Cap is packing an unbreakable throwable shield. Deathstroke is packing an unbreakable sword, an unbreakable staff that shoots energy beams, armor, grenades, a machine gun, a sniper rifle, a shotgun, and a half dozen random things like bolas and lazer pointers.
" Why does Cap have better equipment than Deathstroke? Cap is packing an unbreakable throwable shield. Deathstroke is packing an unbreakable sword, an unbreakable staff that shoots energy beams, armor, grenades, a machine gun, a sniper rifle, a shotgun, and a half dozen random things like bolas and lazer pointers. "You sure he carries all that at one time?
" Why does Cap have better equipment than Deathstroke? Cap is packing an unbreakable throwable shield. Deathstroke is packing an unbreakable sword, an unbreakable staff that shoots energy beams, armor, grenades, a machine gun, a sniper rifle, a shotgun, and a half dozen random things like bolas and lazer pointers. "Because Cap is able to use his shield in too many different ways. He can block all of those things using his shield anyway.
"Because Cap is able to use his shield in too many different ways. He can block all of those things using his shield anyway. "
Okay no. First of all, Cap uses his shield in three ways. 1) To block things and 2) to hit things with 3) to throw at things. Deathstroke's equipment covers all of these uses and much more.
Granted, Cap's shield is particularly good at blocking bullets and energy blasts which makes a great portion of Deathstroke's equipment only useful for keeping Cap from throwing his shield at him but that doesn't make his equipment better.
@Static Shock
said: "You sure he carries all that at one time? "
His armor seems to change between writers and sometimes he's missing one of the guns/staff but for the most part he either caries them with him (on his back or possibly compressed into those pouches) or they're stashed somewhere nearby because he hardly ever goes an arc without using all of them.
I suppose its possible that he goes and buys new ones or runs back to his hideout and grabs other weapons between fights but sniper rifle aside, he never seems to pick weapons that are especially suited to a specific confrontation which would make me believe he's got them all on him and its whatever he's carrying in his hand at the time gets used in the fight.
Or more realistically, he uses whatever the artist/writer feel like giving him at the time.
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