Deathstroke (Arrow) vs Captain America (MCU)

Lets just wait for the next 3 episodes of arrow because I think Slade's going to pull out a hell of a load more feats

@rbt: I must agree, and after the latest episode I'm even more convinced. The henchmen slade broke out of prison were enhanced with a weaker version of the mirakuru then his, and even they were showing comparable physical stats to Cap and Bucky. These guys were breaking bones easily and one took out a whole police station with little effort. Not saying cap couldn't do the same. I'm just saying he hasn't shown me anything as far as strength, skills, regen, or durability without his shield that Slade hasn't already topped with his small showings.

Round 1: Slade because although we haven't seen too much from him we can assume he has Super Human abilities from the miracuru (however you spell that) while Cap only has peak human even in the movies. Although I will say I believe movie Cap does have more skill in h2h the Arrow Deathstroike, Slade's training from the Australian military and his experience on the island with his healing factor and super strength give him enough of an edge.

Round 2: Captain America, because from what we've seen of Slade in Arrow I am not confident he could be able to overcome the insane moves movie Cap has been able to pull off with his shield.

Just saying though comic book version of Deathstroke would destroy Steve.

I'd say that the first match is pretty even.

Cap has a few big advantages. His skill is far greater than anything we have seen in anyone in the Arrow series as of yet. Even if you brought him down to regular human levels of strength, he'd still beat Oliver in H2H (His skill was really astounding in Winter Soldier, outpacing pretty much anything I can remember seeing in a movie). His fighting a guy who is a bullet timer and taking down everyone in that elevator while clearly minimizing how often he was hit. His fights against Bucky and Batroc, not to mention Crossbones, are astounding. Batroc was only shown for a limited amount of time, but from what we saw, his skill is not unlike the mid-level guys in Arrow who Ollie struggles with, and after his original blitz, Cap never gets hit by him again.

As for strength, people compare Roy punching through a reinforced steel wall to Cap like they are the same and they are really not. That steel was pretty thin, and stopping an explosive like the one on Ollie's arrows is not that impressive, not to mention metal walls like that hold up a lot better to radial blasts like explosives than they do against something like Roy's punch, which is more piercing.

Much MORE impressive is Cap's lifting a several ton steel beam while struggling against four bullet wounds. Or piercing the Quinjet with his shield while standing on its back (as already stated, he had almost no friction to keep himself steady and was on top of something that was trying very hard to get him off).

In speed and reflexes, we are a little more uncertain. Slade is at minimum a guy who can catch an arrow with his hands. Very impressive, certainly. Cap keeps up with a guy who was a potential bullet-timer. Also impressive. I'd say that they are close in this one. Too close to call.

Slade has the clear advantage in durability and his healing factor. He took a bullet and was able to ignore it much better than Cap did, and took a very powerful punch that, while I think Cap could do a lot better, would also hurt him a lot more. However, Cap out-skills him and I'd say definitely out-strength's him.

I'd place this at almost 50/50. Second round is an easy win for Cap though. That Shield is just way, WAY too much.

Slade

@theirishdoctor: Ollie is way better than Batroc. Batroc is not equal in skill to anybody Ollie has struggled with. Even Bronze Tiger has shown better fighting feats than Batroc. Why try to make Roys formidable feat a wank, then wank a combatant who's fight barely lasted 2 minutes and he got beat easily?

@theirishdoctor: agreed with most of the post, but if i remember correctly Slade couldnt block Olivers arrow when he sedated him or blinded his eye. So i dont think they equal in reflexes. Sarah said a shot to the head from her pistol would kill them so a shield throw from Steve would do worse.

You must've seen very few martial arts movies then,hate to break it to you but there is nothing to prove that Cap has superior skills,he's gotten a boost no doubt but he still eclipses almost everyone by a huge margin physically.There's no way to separate his physicality from skill. TWS showed that Cap is good,he is however not ubermench(or however it's spelled) that you try to make him out to be.2 of the guys you've mentioned are well below Cap physically,and the one who has the physicals to compete gave Steve the fight of his life. Still Ccrossbones wasn't anything special and Batroc's best was an ass kicking.

And Cap didn't lift any beam,gross exaggeration.

this is a battle i would actually love to see. they are both soldiers only difference is slade is much more ruthless. big advantage. and im sorry what the hell is this talk about cap having more skill than slade and ollie from tws alone??? that is just incoherent nonsense that needs to be removed immediately from their brains. and by the way, anyone can take out a bunch of no name henchmen in a tight space so lets let the elevator scene(in which cap failed several times to put down crossbones before he finally got him down) go please?

(easily takes out henchmen, all h2h only having shot 2 arrows so get that elevator bull crap out of my face. and slade has just as much if not more skill than this man. and besides the elevator scene what else did cap display skillwise? he took on barnes who previously had no feats whatsoever. so that takes care of this superior skill nonsense.

strength, its simple math, sss=peak human mirakuru= superhuman.although, marvel doesnt seem to know the line between peak human and superhuman with cap so i' just play along.(btw agents of shield episode 9: superhuman in shield training camp pushes frikkin bulldozer as fast as any man can sprint, goes to guy who time him and said, "did i beat captain america's time?""not even close" what peak human pushes a bulldozer with a faster time than a superhuman let alone pushes a bulldozer?that severely annoys me". anyways slade nor cap have a wealth of feats for strength for strength given that most of steve's come from his shield and slade just doesnt have that kinda screen time. i will mention that slade sent a grown man rocketing dozens of feet away from a simple arm swing after, having been injected merely hours ago. its probable that he's gotten stronger since then. btw, roy, also superhuman, and roughly the strength of cap, decked slade by suprise with his most powerful sucker punch.slades reaction? simply turning his head to face straight again and spitting. no pain on his face whatsoever. i say slade has the strength categories.

now speed. cap has displayed inferior speed if you just look at the feats. cap could not catch up to a getaway vehicle made in the 40's while a simple mirakuru henchmen caught up to a modern speeding van quite easily. lord knows what slade can do. and combat speedwise, im not seeing anything from cap thats better than slade. slade took out 4 body guards in the span of 3 seconds all while avoiding hitting the guy in the middle. has cap displayed anything close to that?

anyways, slade dominates round 1

slade takes round two with slightly more difficulty due to the shield.

if anyone disagrees with any of the points and has some of their own on why cap wins, please speak your mind because that is something i would sincerely like to see

Slade

thank you for having sense

Slade...TWS is over hyped on Comic Vine.I thought the movie was going to be banging.Like how everyone here was over hyping it.That French dude was basically cannon fodder.He lasted about 2 to 4 mins.Crossbones was in TWS,he didn't show anything impressive. Bucky was overrated.Once Cap said his name his confidence went down.

I'm sorry he might have been better,but the people he fought were not impressive.Every time there's a new comic movie out CViners seem to over hype it.That or they must be Cap fans.

Man this really close. I think this probably the closest fight you can possibly get in the superhero cinematic universe. Here's my analysis.

In terms of skill I'd say they're on par really. It's a little hard to compare I know, since their fighting styles are different. But if you take a look at some of their combat showings. But Slade gave Oliver the hardest fight of his life. It may have been shorter than some of the other fight scenes Oliver has had in Arrow, but there was stuff that happened that was clearly off-screen in that fight. By the end of the fight Oliver was limping, and Slade could hardly throw a punch. And Oliver really never quite beat Slade in hand to hand combat in the first place. If he didn't have those trick arrows the fight could have ended differently. As for Captain America, watching how he fights was amazing too. Captain America has had some amazing fight scenes, and his moves looked very fluent. It was especially impressive when he beat somebody as skilled and nimble as Batroc. But in terms of actual martial ability, I kinda think they're kinda equal.

In terms of agility, I think there's no question Cap has it there.

In terms of durability though, I think Slade clearly has the edge. Took an explosive arrow with minimal injuries, was completely unphased by mirikuru-enhanced Roy when he punched Slade, bullets don't harm him with that armor of his and he can just walk right through them without the armor anyways, and he survived a huge mass of wreckage landing on top of him.

Healing factor is obviously in Slade's favor since Cap doesn't really have one.

Speed… It's a toughie. I kinda want to say Slade. He killed three Brother Blood guards in like less than 10 seconds, he once shot about 5 to 10 soldiers before they could even react, and slice and diced entire squadrons before they could even react, and again fought Oliver Queen to a near standstill when he was un-enhanced. I just want to highlight on this. The way I see it, Oliver is faster and more agile than Captain America is. I mean after all, Oliver goes head on against gangs, soldiers, police, assassins, etc., that are all armed with assault rifles and whatnot, without a shield. And he always beats them rather effortlessly and never ends up with a scratch. Even in the Arrow comics Oliver literally dodges the bullets themselves. I have no reason to believe that Steve could do the same thing without his shield, mainly because he relies on it so much. Cap clearly does have some speed that has been displayed in his fight scenes, that I think would put him pretty close to Slade's level. But I don't think we've quite seen any feats from Cap that specifically highlight his speed, whereas we have with Slade.

Weaponry is obviously in Cap's favor. While I personally think Slade takes the edge in physicals, though Cap comes pretty close, that shield is a huge factor and Slade will have a hard time getting around it.

Honestly I'm just going to call a stalemate. It's too close to call.

Lolwut?

@rudebomberboy01: Yeah man that was after I bought it...Lol..But yeah he was being over hyped....

Steve. He has better stats and Slade got beat by Arrow

I can't agree more

I still can't see cap doing any lasting damage

Still Slade.

Slade would still beat Steve

Steve.

No.

Call me when Slade can do this. Especially TWS parts when he's finished creating and mastering his own martial art fighting style. Not a chance for Slade to do anything but get ninja punted into outer space.

@pokeysteve: Agreed.

Slade.

Gladly.

@namor_curry Now, which feat are you talking about exactly? One which you think can't be replicated by Slade? I have seen every scene of Steve more than one time.

If you're talking about physicals, then Slade outclasses Steve in everything.

Strength-- Sent a man flying over 50 ft. Snapped a rifle like a twig. Punched a hole in a man's rib without attempting to. Crushed skull. Even weaker Mirakuru users have better feats than Cap. Like, Roy punching through a bomb proof container.

Durability-- Roy, when calm can punch a hole in a bomb proof metal. He, when bloodlusted, hit Slade and he didn't even have a scratch. Slade's skin is bulletproof. He has tanked bullets before. Oliver wasn't sure if a .50 caliber sniper bullet headshot can put him down. And those bullets can punch a hole in 1-2" steel. Slade also tanked a plasma blast. Oliver had to create special arrows to fight Slade. They are made to pierce armor. Slade claimed that even a mine would not kill him. Cap's durability doesn't come close to this. We've seen that bullets can indeed pierce him.

Speed-- Took down three trainer guys before any one of them could draw their weapons. He was moving in the room without being seen. He then disappeared from right in front of another guy.

Reflexes-- Sliced two arrows in half with a sword, fired from 10ft just one after another. This trumps basically anything Cap has done to date.

Skill-- Defeated Oliver only by skill. Stalemated him when even when he was weakened(even by human standards). Cap is a great fighter, with a style of his own and all, but he's not really in same league as Oliver. And Slade schooled Oliver.("Don't forget who taught you how to fight, kid!")

Stamina-- Cap can run for real long? Cool. Slade swam through Pacific.

Healing Factor-- While swimming off the island, Slade's whole body kept being ripped apart by current and reef and he kept healing back. Isobel was shot in chest twice and was pretty much dead but Slade gave her mirakuru to revive her.

Now, about the fight. Cap has a shield which he just loves to throw at his opponent. Slade has shown enough reflexes for me to say it safely that he'd dodge the shield or intercept it. Slade has guns, sword which can slice steel, an armor that is completely bulletproof. He's better physicals and better skills. And he's smarter. Just how do you think Cap is winning this?

Most of that was just superstrength brawling. Slade showed actual h2h fighting skills rather than relying on one punch or kick to send his opponents back, though Slade did do that sometimes. Slade easily threw around the entire Arrow Team at one point too. Arrow being arguably more skilled, quicker, and agile.

Where Cap throws a knife, Slade throws a sword. Throwing a sword is harder than throwing a knife.

He also did this before the man could pull the trigger.

As far as reaction time, Slade deflected three arrows traveling at about 300 feets per second, from less than 15 feet away. Plus "he killed three Brother Blood guards in like less than 10 seconds, he once shot about 5 to 10 soldiers before they could even react, and slice and diced entire squadrons before they could even react, and again fought Oliver Queen to a near standstill when he was un-enhanced." - Fetts.

@frisky4: Well this should be easy.

Point 1: Cap's ability to project how fast and where the shield will be at any given time after a throw is apart of his peak human mind that is able to calculate these things at a moment's notice. Throwing a sword directly at an opponent has nothing on that, and will be something Rogers can easily dodge, given his peak human mind that processes everything faster, hence the shield tossing, and why Slade's reaction time is at best equal to the Captain's.

Point 2: Slade's hand to hand skills have not shown anything on par compared to Steve's fights with Bucky. Even on the cargo ship against one of the deadliest mercenaries in the world *cough Slade cough*, Steve is seen just toying with him, in complete control of the fight and ends it when he choses to, highly because at this stage in his career Captain Rogers has mastered his own martial art form that combines all the techniques in the world. That is something Slade cannot compare to, especially not fighting Arrow to a standstill. And the fact that Cap is capable of sending people flying in one punch or kick shows what he can and will do to Slade.

@rbt: Wow. I'm at a loss for words that you think Arrow is a better fighter than Cap? What qualifications does Green Arrow as a character have for that? Being one of, if not the, top hand to hand fighter in his universe is apart of Steve Roger's job description. Cap has been shot point blank range at nothing but his clothing as protection and healed. Another effect of the Super Soldier Serum, Steve literally cannot get exhausted. He will continue to fight/run/swim/whatever. The man caught a submarine. Also, reacting to arrows is cool and all, but Cap reacts to hypersonic plasma-blasts.

Cap for the win - both rounds.

Slade comes across as more impressive. But then again, he doesn't fight people on his level. Steve does.

By that I meant h2h skills. Oliver has shown better h2h skills than Cap.

Cap has been shot point blank range at nothing but his clothing as protection and healed.

Healed? You wanna try again? Cap has shown better endurance than normal humans in movies, but he's not shown a healing factor IIRC. Remember when Bucky beat him bloody at the end of TWS and he woke up in hospital? He still had bruises on his face. Even if he does heal faster than a normal human, it's nowhere close to the healing factor Salde has.

Another effect of the Super Soldier Serum, Steve literally cannot get exhausted.

And yet he was out of breath after his fight with Bucky? Making statements is pretty easy. Post one feat to back it up.

Also, reacting to arrows is cool and all, but Cap reacts to hypersonic plasma-blasts.

Hypersonic? You mean the same plasma blasts which moves barely faster than Cap's shield? Now unless Cap can throw his shield at Mach 10 or something, the blasts were not hypersonic. Or supersonic. Or very fast for the matter. Yeah. that's not even comparable.

Still Slade.

Slade but only if I had to pick between the two, otherwise I'd put the two at a tie. It would be an amusing fight though.

Deathstroke

Would be a good fight, Slades strenght might be greater than Caps, but I think they are both equal skilled. Only problem is Slades healing factor.

But still don't think Slade did anything that impressive in Arrow. All he did was whooped mostly some common people and the main heroes that are not in Caps leaque. While Cap was fighting in full warzone and tossing men and chitauri that are more than twice big and strong as normal human while dodging bullets from the left and right.

I believe so.

I do.

Merry Christmas.

Captain America.

Captain America with a slight majority, 6/10. I can see why it could be seen as a stalemate though.

@rbt: I understand it's your opinion that somehow Arrow is a better fighter than Steve Rogers, but I've gotta say by the looks of things you're alone on that one. Even on the thread thats going for it.

Also, Cap got shot point blank and kept going and healed, that is what a healing factor is? Also Slade isn't bulletproof his armor is. That's been discussed several times on these forums, and I'm pretty sure with you as the one arguing for it. The same can be said about you somehow equating arrows to be faster than hypersonic plasma rounds. I understand this all comes down to everyone's personal opinion on things, but its a pretty awful opinion.

Gotta go with Cap.

@namor_curry: What exactly makes Captain America more skilled than Arrow? Arrow has done almost everything Cap has done, just without superhuman strength and speed to back him up. Just the opposite in fact, he's actually defeated superhumans on Cap's level (physically, not mentally) just through his skill. After a pep talk from ghost Tommy, Oliver basically stomped Solomon Grundy (yes he finished him with the acid, but that doesn't detract from his skill. Ollie was clearly manhandling Grundy in close quarters combat, the tactical and environmental awareness to use the acid is just a bonus, if anything) and he easily handled Roy whenever he got angry during their training sessions (Roy only beat Oliver when he was overdosed on Mirakuru and Oliver didn't want to fight back). Even with a broken knee he was still able to fight on par with one of Deathstroke's Mirakuru soldiers, and let's not forget his recent victory over a bloodlusted Flash. By comparison, Captain America almost always has a major physical advantage over everyone he fights, he's never proven himself capable of using his skill to overcome a physically superior foe like Oliver regularly does. The only time he fought a character who outclassed him was Loki, and Loki beat him fair and square, and I wouldn't say that the physical difference between Cap and Loki was any larger than the difference between Arrow and Grundy. So wouldn't that make Arrow the more capable fighter between the two, physical abilities not withstanding?

When it comes to technical knowledge they both regularly display knowledge of numerous different martial arts techniques in their fighting styles, although I still think Oliver comes out looking superior since we've actually seen his training from multiple different mentors, and we've seen the experiences he's had to endure to reach the point he's at now, whereas Steve just became skilled during The Winter Soldier with no explanation. They've also both used pressure points (Steve did during the elevator fight), but Oliver has used a pressure point to stop someone's pulse and then reawakened them with a tap, which is a much more advanced technique, and actually pretty impressive even by comic book standards. He was also able to paralyze the Dodger's hand by severing a nerve in his arm with a flechette, which Steve has never done anything similar too.

And then there's the final aspect of skill, their actual feats. They've both done very impressive things, however it all comes back to Steve's physical enhancements. I don't think Oliver could take down a Quinjet without some extra weaponry, but neither could Cap if he was limited to Oliver's physicals. In that scenario, I actually think Oliver would do better.

I mean, let's compare and contrast some of their strongest opponents from a pure skill perspective. Oliver and John Diggle are partners, but Oliver has still proven several times that he can absolutely dominate Diggle in a fight, almost easily, if need be. Now that's saying a lot since Diggle is an ex-Special Forces soldier who regularly wrecks fodder with little to no trouble. That alone already puts him ahead of most of Cap's villains, who had next to no feats, but besides that Diggle was also skilled enough to spar evenly with Canary using staffs, a weapon that he has displayed absolutely no training in, whereas her entire combat style revolves around them, and even then HE was the only one to actually land a hit, after which the fight stopped. Diggle was also skilled enough to fight Ravager for a period of time and dodge and parry all of her blows despite being ambushed completely off guard, which is pretty awesome considering not only did she have Mirakuru making her about 10x stronger and faster than him, but she was also a trained fighter herself. She had no feats sure, but she obviously wasn't canon fodder. Now compare Diggle to Rumlow in The Winter Soldier; both expert soldiers, both wreck canon fodder, but only ONE of them has feats beyond that (and some pretty decent ones to boot). Now all that said, Oliver is still able to basically make Diggle look like an idiot during a training session.

There's also a scene where they fight more seriously after the Arrow was defeated by the Dark Archer, Diggle wants to test Ollie to see if he still has his head in the game, so he grabs him by surprise and puts him in am arm bar, but then Ollie immediately reverses it and pins Diggle in turn. I can't find it on YouTube though, but this training session still gets my point across.

Now how did Cap, with ALL his physical enhancements, do against an inferior soldier?

He got tagged twice, couldn't counter, and had to rely on his super strength. Now it's true that Cap had just gotten finished beating an elevator full of dudes, but if he truly has infinite stamina like you say, then that shouldn't have been a problem, correct? Rumlow was also armed which might have given him an advantage, but even if you took those sticks away, the strikes he made still would have landed as punches. By comparison, Ollie was barely focused and Diggle still couldn't touch him. Wouldn't you say that Oliver's skill in these examples is vastly superior?

Let's look at another one of Cap's foes: Batroc. Did he have feats? No. Can he match Cap physically? No. So what makes beating him such an impressive display of skill? If we really overestimate his agility, then he might be on par with the average Arrow villain -- China White, Bronze Tiger, Huntress, Nyssa -- but that's at best, and then Cap beating him still wouldn't make Cap any better than Arrow.

I won't even go into Red Skull since Cap wasn't skilled yet in The First Avenger, but even Thea has displayed better technique than him so far.

The only opponent Cap has beaten who's worth anything is Bucky, but that was still the fight of Cap's life, and getting outsmarted by Black Widow then manhandling her with a cyborg arm + tearing Falcon apart (Winter Soldier's beat feats) still aren't on par with what someone like Malcolm Merlyn can do through pure skill and training.

So regardless of my thought's on this particular match, I don't see what makes Cap so unarguably superior to Arrow in terms of close quarters combat skill. At best they're both equally tactical (personally I would give Arrow the edge since his character has such a focus on tactics whereas Cap's tactical showings are more subtle) and equally skilled with their range weapons (again, personally I would give Arrow the edge, but even I can't deny Steve's ricochets with that shield). The only thing that gives Cap the edge is his physicals, but that comes at the price of quantifiable skill. I'm not saying Arrow can beat Cap, just that if they were both operating on the same level physically, Oliver would be superior. Do you disagree with any of this?

Now about the fight itself, at first I was very indecisive, but I think I've decided on Deathstroke. Obviously they're both extremely comparable in almost every way, although at closer inspection I believe they each have a few advantages.

Steve is stronger. Ignoring feats, he's portrayed to be such a physical monster that I can't picture Deathstroke being on par with him in an official crossover. Everything Cap does just reinforces his immense strength, whereas Deathstroke's strength is less apparent to his character. Now taking feats into account, Cap is still superior, I'm just being honest. They both send people flying, although the people Cap sends flying are armored and extremely heavy. Snapping a rifle is something I can see Cap doing just as easily as Slade did, whereas I can't see Slade lifting a motorcycle over his head with three woman sat on top just to put on a show. During that scene, Cap's mind was a million miles, he wasn't even trying at all. I think Slade would at least have to try. Not to mention Cap punched a hole through submarine glass made to withstand the ocean depths, while underwater which would have cut the force of his punch in half. Deathstroke has done nothing to say he's that incredibly strong.

That said, Deathstroke is without a doubt faster, I mean come on. Let's be honest, Cap has next to no speed feats at all. His best showings are his pure combat speed during The Winter Soldier, but that's unquantifiable, Deathstroke fights extremely fast on camera too, but he also has feats like deflecting numerous arrows from a master archer and vanishing in wide open spaces as soon as someone looks away. Even before his enhancements he was able to cut down a small group of armed soldiers with his swords before they could react, and after his enhancements, he took on all of team Arrow at once and didn't even break a sweat. Going by feats, Deathstroke is without a doubt faster.

That speed goes hand-in-hand with his skill advantage. Like I said in my above post, it all comes down to Captain America's physical abilities. Slade has done the same things Steve has; showcase knowledge in several martial arts, beat the world's best fighters, incredible tactical awareness, etc, except unlike Cap, he has a whole season of doing those things without being 10x stronger and faster than everyone else. Billy Wintergreen by himself is way more formidable than any of Captain America's opponents, he was able to catch an arrow fired by a master archer between his fingers from point blank range, and he also stalemated/defeated Yao Fei in close quarters combat twice. Nobody, I repeat NOBODY Cap has fought has ever defeated someone as skilled and experienced as Yao Fei in combat. Winter Soldier took on Black Widow, but that was by manhandling her with his cyborg arm, not skill. Billy Wintergreen is way more skilled than any of Cap's opponents, and Slade beat him fair and square. Not to mention Slade's stalemate of the Arrow in close quarters combat (Oliver couldn't beat him without using a rope arrow to incap him), Slade toying with Shado in a sparring match, and of course Deathstroke humiliating all of team Arrow at once completely effortlessly with his physical enhancements, which is something I can not picture Captain America doing if he were in the same situation.

Agility goes to Cap hands down, but that won't be too much of a factor when he's facing a superior martial artist and tactician. Slade uses swords and guns, so his damage output is leagues superior to Cap, considering his speed advantage on top of that I can't see Steve winning, not to mention Slade's body armor to soak up blows, and I haven't even mentioned his superior durability and healing factor. Basically, in order to win, Captain America will need to land many more blows than Deathstroke to compensate for the damage output-to-durability difference, and without clear advantages in either skill or speed, he simply can't do that.

@nickzambuto: I've rewatched these Arrow fights over and over and compared them to the Captain America mashup, and Steve is undeniably faster, it's almost embarrassing how much faster the Captain reacts in hand to hand combat, and Grundy was even slower than Arrow. I really am not impressed.

Secondly, the fact that Captain America is a movie title rather than a television show series means things get compartmentalized. Just because Steve isn't shown creating and mastering his own art form and expanding his peak tactical mind doesn't mean it never happened; that's apart of his essential backstory as a comic book character. Arrow does not have that. You are seriously downplaying the known effects of the Super Soldier Serum because it couldn't all fit on the big screen. Which to some extent I understand, but it is a given.

Breathing heavy and passing out from exhaustion are two very different things. I forget the actual numbers, but someone took to calculating how fast Steve made those laps around the Reflection Pool at the start of TWS and it was unbelievable. He hardly broke a sweat. That is endurance Oliver Queen will never have. And then there's Steve having cells that heal at least 4x faster than a normal human, including his metabolism which makes him unable to get drunk.

Steve never wanted to kill Bucky, he's his best friend. It was more than clear that Captain Rogers was holding back. That's why he went for the sleeper, and as a D1 wrestling recruit back in my day, that's the best way to knock someone out without hurting them. There is really nothing that Oliver Queen is better at than Steve Rogers, except shooting arrows. Which Cap would learn to perfect if he ever applied himself to it due to his superior, peak human mind.

@namor_curry: You misunderstand me. I do not think that the Arrow can beat Captain America, the physical different is too vast. However, I do firmly believe that Arrow is a considerably more skilled combatant. As I went over, Oliver has defeated superior foes to Steve and accomplished all the same feats, without superhuman strength and speed to back him up. It's really that simple, Cap hasn't proven that he can operate on this level without the SSS and through pure skill, whereas Oliver has. Ergo Arrow is the more skilled, more resourceful fighter. Everything you listed in your counter is in regards to the SSS and Steve's physical abilities, which doesn't affect his skill and resourcefulness. The only thing you mentioned that has to do with the topic at hand is "Just because Steve isn't shown creating and mastering his own art form and expanding his peak tactical mind doesn't mean it never happened;", and indeed creating his own fighting style would be impressive, if MCU Captain America ever did that. The fact of the matter is, you're simply making that up, no such fact was ever mentioned in the films, and since creating and mastering your own fighting style is such a huge deal, it would probably have been mentioned if it were the case. You can't just assume MCU Cap did that because comic Cap did that, they're two different characters with different feats. I understand that Cap's character has to be 'compartmentalized' to fit in a two hour movie, but he either has the feats or he doesn't, you can't just assume he can do something because you feel like he should.

@namor_curry:

I understand it's your opinion that somehow Arrow is a better fighter than Steve Rogers, but I've gotta say by the looks of things you're alone on that one. Even on the thread thats going for it

I'm definitely not alone with the opinion that Oliver is more skilled than Cap. Its the common consensus on vine.

Also, Cap got shot point blank and kept going and healed, that is what a healing factor is?

I know of a guy who was shot in his shoulder and leg and survived. Does that mean he has superhuman healing as well? Cap healed because he was admitted in the hospital. You know, the place where people with no superhuman healing factor go to heal?

Also Slade isn't bulletproof his armor is. That's been discussed several times on these forums, and I'm pretty sure with you as the one arguing for it.

I've backed up my claims with feats. If you can disprove it, then go ahead. Slade has feats that implies his skin is bulletproof.

The same can be said about you somehow equating arrows to be faster than hypersonic plasma rounds.

Statements again. Plasma rounds were not hypersonic. Here's a gif comparing its speed to that of Cap's shield toss.

There are many other instances where we can literally follow the blast. There are no mention of plasma blasts being hypersonic in moive IIRC. Because it surely doesn't look very fast.

Like I said before, making statements is very easy. I can say that the arrow Slade reacted to was moving at light speed but it won't change the fact that it wasn't.

I understand this all comes down to everyone's personal opinion on things, but its a pretty awful opinion.

Of course its my opinion. But unlike you, I can actually back up why my opinion is correct with facts.

@namor_curry: @rbt: Besides, Cap never even reacted to the blasts directly anyway, they always just miss or hit his shield.