Death Seed Sentry VS Superman Prime

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Saint_Sophie

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Prime.

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Jestersmiles

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Eisenfauste

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Prime beats him to a paste

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Hulkman123

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DS Sentry

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Solar_Powered

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@hatemalingsia: Out of curiosity, when has DSS ever used matter manipulation offensively? The only instance I recall him ever using that power was to re-arrange his own atoms after being vaporized by Molecule Man.

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oh this fight should be a tough one

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Hulkman123

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@solar_powered:

DS Sentry used it offensively when he fought Wasp and and Thor and he made rock monsters to fight them, however Voided Sentry has used it in the past to tear apart Loki with the Norn stones and Molecule Man.

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RealityWarper

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#58  Edited By RealityWarper

@buttersdaman000 said:

@hatemalingsia:

Yeah, after that panel Prime ripped open Monarchs containment suit which led to a universal explosion. IIRC Prime was hurled light years away by the force and drained of his guardian amp...which led to him meeting the time trapper and all that good stuff.

It is not very clear if the Universal Explosion destroyed all the Universe (all the planets and stars) or just wiped out all the life in this Universe.

http://imgur.com/a/4UA5A#12

The range of the explosion is Universal but what about his raw power ?

We see that it kills everybody in the Universe except Solomon but what is the durability of a Monitor ?

And we see that some earth remains as some plant is growing on it on the last panel.

So about Monarch's final explosion :

  • Range : Universal
  • Raw power : Unknow except if we can quantify the durability of Solomon. That's the only indication that we have.

*EDIT*

Moreover Monarch don't blast SMP with planetary-level attacks and accelerate the depletion of his Oan energies.

He hurts Prime and even he is not wounded that means that once all Oan energies are depleted SMP will be wrecked.

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@hatemalingsia

@solar_powered:

DS Sentry used it offensively when he fought Wasp and and Thor and he made rock monsters to fight them, however Voided Sentry has used it in the past to tear apart Loki with the Norn stones and Molecule Man.

If anything Rock Monsters isn't so much as "offensively" in the sense of direct offense.

Also, void sentry isn't allowed in this battle. So, unless there are any scans of Sentry using his molecule manipulation to actually manipulate another person, then there's no reason to believe he can do so with Superman Prime.

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@hatemalingsia

@hulkman123 said:

@solar_powered:

DS Sentry used it offensively when he fought Wasp and and Thor and he made rock monsters to fight them, however Voided Sentry has used it in the past to tear apart Loki with the Norn stones and Molecule Man.

If anything Rock Monsters isn't so much as "offensively" in the sense of direct offense.

Also, void sentry isn't allowed in this battle. So, unless there are any scans of Sentry using his molecule manipulation to actually manipulate another person, then there's no reason to believe he can do so with Superman Prime.

Sentry had no reasons to kill anybody since he is back.

Bob = Sentry + Void = DSS.

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@solar_powered said:

@hatemalingsia

@hulkman123 said:

@solar_powered:

DS Sentry used it offensively when he fought Wasp and and Thor and he made rock monsters to fight them, however Voided Sentry has used it in the past to tear apart Loki with the Norn stones and Molecule Man.

If anything Rock Monsters isn't so much as "offensively" in the sense of direct offense.

Also, void sentry isn't allowed in this battle. So, unless there are any scans of Sentry using his molecule manipulation to actually manipulate another person, then there's no reason to believe he can do so with Superman Prime.

Sentry had no reasons to kill anybody since he is back.

Bob = Sentry + Void = DSS.

Regardless, he still hasn't exhibited that he can in fact use his molecule manipulation to manipulate another person.

Also, where was it stated that Void=DSS?

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RealityWarper

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#62  Edited By RealityWarper

@solar_powered said:

@realitywarper said:

@solar_powered said:

@hatemalingsia

@hulkman123 said:

@solar_powered:

DS Sentry used it offensively when he fought Wasp and and Thor and he made rock monsters to fight them, however Voided Sentry has used it in the past to tear apart Loki with the Norn stones and Molecule Man.

If anything Rock Monsters isn't so much as "offensively" in the sense of direct offense.

Also, void sentry isn't allowed in this battle. So, unless there are any scans of Sentry using his molecule manipulation to actually manipulate another person, then there's no reason to believe he can do so with Superman Prime.

Sentry had no reasons to kill anybody since he is back.

Bob = Sentry + Void = DSS.

Regardless, he still hasn't exhibited that he can in fact use his molecule manipulation to manipulate another person.

Also, where was it stated that Void=DSS?

He has because he is Robert Reynolds...

Void isn't a real person.

Robert Reynolds just create him with his reality warping powers when he has some schizophrenic crisis.

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hatemalingsia

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@hatemalingsia

@hulkman123 said:

@solar_powered:

DS Sentry used it offensively when he fought Wasp and and Thor and he made rock monsters to fight them, however Voided Sentry has used it in the past to tear apart Loki with the Norn stones and Molecule Man.

If anything Rock Monsters isn't so much as "offensively" in the sense of direct offense.

Also, void sentry isn't allowed in this battle. So, unless there are any scans of Sentry using his molecule manipulation to actually manipulate another person, then there's no reason to believe he can do so with Superman Prime.

Void Sentry = Bob. DS Sentry = Bob with Death Seed. Unless there are any scans of Sentry stating he loses all his powers, then there's no reason to believe he can't do it. In fact, he referenced he still have them and more (no more mental issues which manifest itself as the Void) as DSS.

Bob is a reality (from what I heard) and matter manipulator. Bob became the Sentry, but because of his schizophrenic issues he also created the Void. Or he created the Void first then the Sentry to balance it out, I don't remember lol. So before he got the death seed, Bob was pretty much Sentry and Void. He had complete control over molecules and beat MM because of that. The Death Seed removed Bob's mental issues and didn't change his powers that I know of.

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hatemalingsia

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@solar_powered said:

@realitywarper said:

@solar_powered said:

@hatemalingsia

@hulkman123 said:

@solar_powered:

DS Sentry used it offensively when he fought Wasp and and Thor and he made rock monsters to fight them, however Voided Sentry has used it in the past to tear apart Loki with the Norn stones and Molecule Man.

If anything Rock Monsters isn't so much as "offensively" in the sense of direct offense.

Also, void sentry isn't allowed in this battle. So, unless there are any scans of Sentry using his molecule manipulation to actually manipulate another person, then there's no reason to believe he can do so with Superman Prime.

Sentry had no reasons to kill anybody since he is back.

Bob = Sentry + Void = DSS.

Regardless, he still hasn't exhibited that he can in fact use his molecule manipulation to manipulate another person.

Also, where was it stated that Void=DSS?

He has because he is Robert Reynolds...

Void isn't a real person.

Robert Reynolds just create him with his reality warping powers when he has some schizophrenic crisis.

^^ That. All of them are pretty much Bob. They are the manifestation of Bob's power.

Look it this way: Superman Prime = Superboy Prime + Guardian amp. DSS = Sentry + Death Seed.

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Prime

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@realitywarper said:

@solar_powered said:

@realitywarper said:

@solar_powered said:

@hatemalingsia

@hulkman123 said:

@solar_powered:

DS Sentry used it offensively when he fought Wasp and and Thor and he made rock monsters to fight them, however Voided Sentry has used it in the past to tear apart Loki with the Norn stones and Molecule Man.

If anything Rock Monsters isn't so much as "offensively" in the sense of direct offense.

Also, void sentry isn't allowed in this battle. So, unless there are any scans of Sentry using his molecule manipulation to actually manipulate another person, then there's no reason to believe he can do so with Superman Prime.

Sentry had no reasons to kill anybody since he is back.

Bob = Sentry + Void = DSS.

Regardless, he still hasn't exhibited that he can in fact use his molecule manipulation to manipulate another person.

Also, where was it stated that Void=DSS?

He has because he is Robert Reynolds...

Void isn't a real person.

Robert Reynolds just create him with his reality warping powers when he has some schizophrenic crisis.

^^ That. All of them are pretty much Bob. They are the manifestation of Bob's power.

Look it this way: Superman Prime = Superboy Prime + Guardian amp. DSS = Sentry + Death Seed.

Therefore I don't see how Superman Prime can do anything to Bob...

He is stated to be a reality warper above HOM Wanda which is multiversal if I recall correctly.

Bob can simply stops the photons to reach SMP and it's over.

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buttersdaman000

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It is not very clear if the Universal Explosion destroyed all the Universe (all the planets and stars) or just wiped out all the life in this Universe.

http://imgur.com/a/4UA5A#12

The range of the explosion is Universal but what about his raw power ?

We see that it kills everybody in the Universe except Solomon but what is the durability of a Monitor ?

And we see that some earth remains as some plant is growing on it on the last panel.

So about Monarch's final explosion :

  • Range : Universal
  • Raw power : Unknow except if we can quantify the durability of Solomon. That's the only indication that we have.

*EDIT*

Moreover Monarch don't blast SMP with planetary-level attacks and accelerate the depletion of his Oan energies.

He hurts Prime and even he is not wounded that means that once all Oan energies are depleted SMP will be wrecked.

It's not unclear. It was mentioned several times that universe designate 51 had to be rebuilt, restored, or whatever. People try to use the survival of earth-51 to debunk the feat, but it was made clear that the planet was kept intact by the monitors shields. Even then the only thing to survive on it was a single plant. I mean you can clearly see on the pages that planets are being wiped out in an increasing area so I don't know what's debatable about it. And Monitors are multiversal beings so his survival isn't surprising.....Also, that monitor is Nix Uotan, not Solomon. Solomon was the one who sent SMP to earth 51 hoping he and monarch would take each other out.

I don't know what you mean in your edit but it took a universal explosion to drain prime of all guardian amp. And besides, superbly prime still trumps DS Sentry in speed, strength, durability, and more and I would definitely argue for him winning anyways.

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It's not unclear. It was mentioned several times that universe designate 51 had to be rebuilt, restored, or whatever. People try to use the survival of earth-51 to debunk the feat, but it was made clear that the planet was kept intact by the monitors shields. Even then the only thing to survive on it was a single plant. I mean you can clearly see on the pages that planets are being wiped out in an increasing area so I don't know what's debatable about it. And Monitors are multiversal beings so his survival isn't surprising.....Also, that monitor is Nix Uotan, not Solomon. Solomon was the one who sent SMP to earth 51 hoping he and monarch would take each other out.

I don't know what you mean in your edit but it took a universal explosion to drain prime of all guardian amp. And besides, superbly prime still trumps DS Sentry in speed, strength, durability, and more and I would definitely argue for him winning anyways.

Wrong.

Primo :

Monarch states himself that the Oan energies are depleting and that he is running out of juice.

So Prime tanked the blast thanks to the remaining Oan energies.

http://imgur.com/a/4UA5A#8

Secundo :

And besides, superbly prime still trumps DS Sentry in speed, strength, durability, and more and I would definitely argue for him winning anyways.

*Striking power* : Bob shakes worlds while holding back.

*Lifting power* : Bob stopped Exitar's descent.

*Movement speed* : The Sentry bullrushed Thor so fast that he was disoriented by the speed even he is a regular massively ftl traveler. His velocity is stated by the narrator to bend space & time. The most probable explanation is that he can bend both to reach such speeds, as Paul Jenkins told me that he wrote The Sentry as a time manipulator too.

*Energy output* : The Sentry absorb and release planetary-level (as strong to one-shot planets) during his fight against Genis-Vell. Both are holding back.

*Durability* : Bob set-up his durability according to his mental state, here with the death seed he has no more flaws so...

*More* : DSS is a reality warper, a space & time manipulator, a molecule manipulator, the strongest Marvel telepath, intagibility, invisibility... And probably more...

In my opinion Superman Prime power-set is a bit light in possibilities to win here as the only things he can do are : smashing, using his freeze breath and his heat vision in order to hurt Bob.

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the problem with this battle is the ones who argue don't know anything about the other character... there really isn't anything that prime could do to bob... he doesn't need a body and he is mid level reality warper to boot.... matter manipulator also... the whole he can kill him thing?? his consciousness doesn't die so the whole thread is not possible...could prime beat his body? sure because bob is crazy and would let him but it wouldn't do anything to him....

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When does death seed sentry reality warp? I've read dark avengers (MM fight), Siege, and uncanny avengers, but don't remember any actual reality warping abilities being demonstrated. Matter manipulation is as close as I've seen.

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@newecho said:

the problem with this battle is the ones who argue don't know anything about the other character... there really isn't anything that prime could do to bob... he doesn't need a body and he is mid level reality warper to boot.... matter manipulator also... the whole he can kill him thing?? his consciousness doesn't die so the whole thread is not possible...could prime beat his body? sure because bob is crazy and would let him but it wouldn't do anything to him....

By statements Bob is above HOM Wanda in reality warping.

@jpdag05 said:

When does death seed sentry reality warp? I've read dark avengers (MM fight), Siege, and uncanny avengers, but don't remember any actual reality warping abilities being demonstrated. Matter manipulation is as close as I've seen.

All of his powers are reality warping.

That's the way that he beat molecule man.

I guess that he can empower himself and gain permanent new powers aswell via reality warping.

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@realitywarper:

1. Okay?.....How does that make me wrong? I've read the issue. Monarch stated that the guardian amp was fading but there was no indication of how long it would take. All we know is that it took a blast of universal scale to finally deplete it. DS Sentry can't replicate that so your points concerning the loss of the amp are moot.

2. Superboy Prime moved planets casually, rearranged a solar system, and takes on multiple supermen at once. Superboy prime can casually move through time thanks to his speed and fight on par with Flashes. Superboy prime no sells planet destructions and the like. And he's much more powerful with his guardian amp.

3. I've never seen DS Sentry, or any Sentry for that matter, reality, time, or space warp. His matter manipulation is often taken out of context or hyped. If you want to use the MM fight, i'll just use SMP beating the sh*t out of Mr. Myx, a being much more powerful than the former. I've also never seen Sentry use telepathy offensively against someone like Prime who is regularly telepathically assaulted. The same goes for intangibility. And invisibility is useless. Can you even show me these feats and powers?

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BlackJudas

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DSS pretty much not contest.

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DS Sentry still wins.

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@jpdag05 said:

Until sentry becomes universal level it's prime in an absolute curbstomp. Massive mismatch IMO. The difference in magnitude between a universe and several planets is so vast it's ridiculous. No way sentry hurts prime via matter manipulation or any other technique he possesses. They're simply on different levels.

Molecular Manipulation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All of Superman Prime's powers.

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@newecho said:

the problem with this battle is the ones who argue don't know anything about the other character... there really isn't anything that prime could do to bob... he doesn't need a body and he is mid level reality warper to boot.... matter manipulator also... the whole he can kill him thing?? his consciousness doesn't die so the whole thread is not possible...could prime beat his body? sure because bob is crazy and would let him but it wouldn't do anything to him....

By statements Bob is above HOM Wanda in reality warping.

You're referring to Victoria Hand's statements to Norman Osborn? She was referencing the level of trouble he would bring, not comparing reality warping abilities.

@jpdag05 said:

When does death seed sentry reality warp? I've read dark avengers (MM fight), Siege, and uncanny avengers, but don't remember any actual reality warping abilities being demonstrated. Matter manipulation is as close as I've seen.

All of his powers are reality warping.

That's the way that he beat molecule man.

I guess that he can empower himself and gain permanent new powers aswell via reality warping.

That was molecular/atomic manipulation, not reality warping. He controls the molecules around him much like molecule man did. He cannot reshape reality to his will, break the laws of physics, wish people out of existence, or any of the other things that a true reality warper could (Unless there are some feats I don't know about in this regard, which is possible as I haven't been following the comics lately). Molecular control is not the equivalent of reality control. Besides, I remember Prime overpowering and dominating Mxyzptlk, a true reality warper, so it seems that his power is of such a scale that even reality warpers can be overpowered by him.

@jpdag05 said:

Until sentry becomes universal level it's prime in an absolute curbstomp. Massive mismatch IMO. The difference in magnitude between a universe and several planets is so vast it's ridiculous. No way sentry hurts prime via matter manipulation or any other technique he possesses. They're simply on different levels.

Molecular Manipulation>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>All of Superman Prime's powers.

I agree that the nature of the power is more impressive/unusual, but the scale of demonstrated power is just the opposite. Sentry's best feat I can think of is multi-planetary (fight vs. photon), whereas Prime's best feat is universal. The difference in scale there is staggering. It's like an ant who can disassemble other ants trying to disassemble a city. Sentry has not fought anyone remotely on Prime's level, and I need to see Sentry demonstrating power on something close to that level (or at least using his molecular control to disassemble someone with good durability) before I can put him in Prime's league. For now, Sentry lacks the raw power to beat Prime IMO.

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hatemalingsia

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#78  Edited By hatemalingsia

@jpdag05 said:
@realitywarper said:

@jpdag05 said:

When does death seed sentry reality warp? I've read dark avengers (MM fight), Siege, and uncanny avengers, but don't remember any actual reality warping abilities being demonstrated. Matter manipulation is as close as I've seen.

All of his powers are reality warping.

That's the way that he beat molecule man.

I guess that he can empower himself and gain permanent new powers aswell via reality warping.

That was molecular/atomic manipulation, not reality warping. He controls the molecules around him much like molecule man did. He cannot reshape reality to his will, break the laws of physics, wish people out of existence, or any of the other things that a true reality warper could (Unless there are some feats I don't know about in this regard, which is possible as I haven't been following the comics lately). Molecular control is not the equivalent of reality control. Besides, I remember Prime overpowering and dominating Mxyzptlk, a true reality warper, so it seems that his power is of such a scale that even reality warpers can be overpowered by him.

What immune to reality warping? That one time when he tortured Mxyzptlk? Zatanna from Earth 3 was the one who used her magic to keep Mxyzptlk's powers at bay. It's arguable that SP is immune to magic but no proof that he's immune from reality warping as Mxyzptlk never tries to do so.

No Caption Provided

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jpdag05

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@hatemalingsia:

Fair point, I'll have to remember that detail. Sentry, however, is not a reality warper, so it doesn't affect this battle.

As an aside, Prime states that all the Zatanna clone is doing is keeping the imp there, so there is still no indication that Mxyzptlk could have hurt him, only that he could have escaped back to the 5th dimension.

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hatemalingsia

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#80  Edited By hatemalingsia

@jpdag05 said:

@hatemalingsia:

Fair point, I'll have to remember that detail. Sentry, however, is not a reality warper, so it doesn't affect this battle.

As an aside, Prime states that all the Zatanna clone is doing is keeping the imp there, so there is still no indication that Mxyzptlk could have hurt him, only that he could have escaped back to the 5th dimension.

Fair enough. I know Sentry is a matter manipulator but not sure with the reality warper thingy. Anyway, if I ask you how did he create Sentry and Void, what's your answer?

On that panel though, you can read Zatanna said No Magic For Imp twice, and Break His Will. She didn't just say he can't escape or something along those lines. Prime was the one who said what you stated, there's no reason to believe Zatanna didn't supress Mxyzptlk's powers when she said so on that panel.

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#81  Edited By RealityWarper

@realitywarper:

1. Okay?.....How does that make me wrong? I've read the issue. Monarch stated that the guardian amp was fading but there was no indication of how long it would take. All we know is that it took a blast of universal scale to finally deplete it. DS Sentry can't replicate that so your points concerning the loss of the amp are moot.

2. Superboy Prime moved planets casually, rearranged a solar system, and takes on multiple supermen at once. Superboy prime can casually move through time thanks to his speed and fight on par with Flashes. Superboy prime no sells planet destructions and the like. And he's much more powerful with his guardian amp.

3. I've never seen DS Sentry, or any Sentry for that matter, reality, time, or space warp. His matter manipulation is often taken out of context or hyped. If you want to use the MM fight, i'll just use SMP beating the sh*t out of Mr. Myx, a being much more powerful than the former. I've also never seen Sentry use telepathy offensively against someone like Prime who is regularly telepathically assaulted. The same goes for intangibility. And invisibility is useless. Can you even show me these feats and powers?

First point :

During the fight with Monarch, this last one hurts Prime with several energy attacks and the more powerful one is at city-level, depleting the Oan energies even faster.

Sentry bust planets while holding back and his striking power shook planets while holding back too.

Moreover Monarch never used a single physical attack against Prime, it is pretty obvious that The Sentry fairly outclasses him here.

Considering that Prime is actually hurt by energies less powerful by far than an Universal blast, even with the Oan energies, it is pretty obvious that something happened here :

Superman Prime didn't tanked the Universal Blast but was instead throwed out-of-time by the excess of Quantum Energies coming from the destruction of Monarch. (as Monarch is Captain Atom)

"The Quantum Energy spilling from Monarch is an unparalleled destructive force... A chain reaction that does not stop with a city, nor a continent..."

No Caption Provided

Or we know that Monarch is Captain Atom and that he experience some Time Jumps when he absorbs too much Energies and here he released ALL of his Quantum Energies, responsibles of the space & time jumps on Superman Prime :

That means that Superman Prime didn't take the blast but experienced a Time Jump.

Explanations about how this works :

Nathaniel Adams experience a time jump :

No Caption Provided

How the Time Jump works :

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

The mens responsibles of the "Captain Atom project" explains that when Captain Atom absorbed too much energies the excess become the "fuel" that propelled him accross 18 years of space-time.

That's confirmed later when the Time Trapper save Superboy-prime who's blocked out-of-time :

No Caption Provided

Time Trapper about SBP : "Lost in time but now found".

In conclusion of our first point :

  • Prime didn't tank the Universal Blast as this one propelled him out of time instead of killing him.

The time-trapper save him from this situation later.

  • Sentry demonstrated more powerful abilities than Monarch while holding back considering his physicals, energy projection and other powers...

Sentry can beat Prime easily.

Second point :

Superboy Prime moved planets casually, rearranged a solar system, and takes on multiple supermen at once.

That's fine.

Sentry's powers have nothing to do with Supermens or Flashes.

He is a multiversal reality warper.

Moreover Prime has never showed to be immune to reality warping. He is resistant to magic and immune to the kryptonite coming frm his universe. He can be depowered by the Red Sun and by the lacks of Sun

DSS don't use magic but reality warping.

We can add that prior to his confrontation with Mr Mxy, this last one was depowered, and Zatanna states that Superman-prime can't completely beat down any beings that exists by their wits (like Sentry).

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Superboy prime can casually move through time thanks to his speed and fight on par with Flashes.

The time-trapper (future version of Superboy-prime) can.

As I showed above Superboy-Prime was stuck outside of time without the help of the Time Trapper.

Superboy prime no sells planet destructions and the like. And he's much more powerful with his guardian amp.

He destroyed a planet by flying through the core, that's not so impressive.

At least less than destroying a planet with your energy output while holding back.

Moreover the guardian amp just gives him more raw power.

That's not helpful against Bob who can deal with Superman Prime's limited Oan energies.

Third point

I've never seen DS Sentry, or any Sentry for that matter, reality, time, or space warp. His matter manipulation is often taken out of context or hyped.

He is a reality warper and an Universal threat since the first mini-serie.

If you want to use the MM fight, i'll just use SMP beating the sh*t out of Mr. Myx, a being much more powerful than the former.

I just debunked that fact above.

Mxy was depowered of his Magic prior to his fight with Prime.

Moreover Prime is resistant to Magic.

Do the maths.

It's called plot device.

Having more feats doesn't make Mxy more powerful than DSS.

Bob is stated several times able to reshape the reality in a way worse than HOM Wanda did.

Moreover his physicals don't makes him weak to Prime like Mxy is.

Moreover Mxy is a "joke character".

I've also never seen Sentry use telepathy offensively against someone like Prime who is regularly telepathically assaulted.

He did it against Yelena Belova.

He don't use it because of his morals in a daily basis he don't like to mess with people minds.

Show me a feat of Prime resisting a telepathic assault then...

The same goes for intangibility. And invisibility is useless. Can you even show me these feats and powers?

Intangibility :

When he shapes himself as the Void he use it regularly.

http://i.imgur.com/Y08c9MI.jpg

Invisibility :

After that Absorbing Man absorbed some of Bob's powers, he became invisible and tried to read Bob's mind too.

http://i.imgur.com/hEFqBK4.jpg

Sentry can deflect the light and other radiant emissions.

That can be effective against SBP.

Conclusion

Superman-Prime has not the power-set to deal with The Sentry.

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- Reaching and semantics aren't going to help your case. Regardless of whether or not you want to believe it, a universal explosion was required to deplete the guardian amp. You have no evidence or quantifiable estimation to suggest that Sentry's strength would be able to do the same over any period of time. The only thing you do have is one statement by Monarch that is vague at best. Even then, to suggest that Sentry's 'planet shaking punches at his weakest' are enough to weaken Prime is laughable considering he barrels through planets destroying them to no ill effect.

- Yes, Prime is hurt by powers, energies way less than universal, but Sentry was taken out by a hellicarrier. Lets not lowball here. And I say hurt very loosely because a thwack, grunt, or minor blood spill is hardly an indication of major pain/damage in comics and to suggest so is reaching at it's finest.

- No, Prime took the blast and was thrown lightyears through time. You can try to warp the panel evidence all you want, it won't change anything. Going by your logic, why wasn't the rest of universe designate 51 thrown through time? No, as it was confirmed more than once, the blast was destructive and Prime was right there at ground zero. The blast went off, Prime was thrown, the time trapper found him, sends him to the year 3000, where we see him reverted back to youth with his clothes torn off. He took the blast.

- What do you mean Sentry's powers have nothing to do with Supermen or Flashes? They were mentioned to show how powerful Prime already was as a boy.

- Oh.....wow...Ok, proof of DS Sentry being a multiversal reality warper? That's literally the first time i've ever heard of it lol

- No, you're wrong. Myx is a reality warper, a true multiversal reality warper at that. His powers are sometimes described as magic, but it's no different than writers labeling Wanda's powers as chaos magic. I don't know what you're trying to prove with that scan, but a few pages before it you can read plain and simple that Prime flew into the 5th dimension and pretty much kidnapped Mr. Myx. So, no, he wasn't depowered. Also, that zatanna copy can talk big all she wants but Prime literally manhandled her and kept her as a servant, and Myx decided to make a tactical retreat rather than fight Prime. And, for the record, DS Sentry is nowhere near Myx in power.

- No, Superboy Prime can time travel with speed. He's meant to be a pre-crisis version of Superboy and has even been shown capable of escaping the speed force. The time trapper could see alternate realities and warp events to fit his plans, as well as time travel. Just because he found Prime floating in time and space doesn't mean diminish primes capabilities at all.

- He casually destroyed a planet and emerged unscathed from it's destruction. What has DS Sentry done on that level? And, ftr, n52 shakes planets with his punches as well. And what quantifies 'limited' to you? You keep throwing that around when you can't even prove how much power the guardian amp gave him until you move to a universal scale. What is sentry going to do??

- Proof that Sentry is a reality warper and universal threat? The best evidence he has to that effect are statements, healing and revivals, none of which hold up on the battle forums.

- You didn't prove anything. Myx wasn't depowered, Prime just showed up in the 5th dimension, beat him up, and kidnapped him. Myx is also a reality warper, not a magical being, and by feats, he outclasses DS Sentry and Wanda by miles. He can pull universes out his hat, rewrite reality on universal scales, exist outside of time and more.

- I find it funny that you bring up plot devices when Sentry is literally just a walking version of one.

- MMH tried to assault prime and he immediately reacted with a speed blitz.

- I don't see how deflecting light and radiation would be effective against SMP. Invisibility is useless against someone with super sense and intangibility is also useless if the person can't react quick enough to use it.

Prime doesn't need a versatile power set. He's a brick. He just beats DS Sentry to death.

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reaverlation

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Prime wrecks

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Prime.

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RealityWarper

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#85  Edited By RealityWarper

@jpdag05 said:

One

You're referring to Victoria Hand's statements to Norman Osborn? She was referencing the level of trouble he would bring, not comparing reality warping abilities.

No Caption Provided

It's a statement of Moonstone and she implies that Sentry has even more power than HOM Wanda... Just after he demolished Molecule Man that makes sense.

No Caption Provided

Tony Stark made a close diagnosis and add to the previous fact that sentry could erase the memories of everybody again, on a whim or by accident.

Two

That was molecular/atomic manipulation, not reality warping. He controls the molecules around him much like molecule man did. He cannot reshape reality to his will, break the laws of physics, wish people out of existence, or any of the other things that a true reality warper could (Unless there are some feats I don't know about in this regard, which is possible as I haven't been following the comics lately). Molecular control is not the equivalent of reality control. Besides, I remember Prime overpowering and dominating Mxyzptlk, a true reality warper, so it seems that his power is of such a scale that even reality warpers can be overpowered by him.

He can.

He reshaped the past in order to become the Angel Of Death.

Can Molecule Man do that ? No.

Sentry did.

Moreover Paul Jenkins himself told me that he wrote The Sentry as a reality warper.

Bendis confirmed it in an interview about the fight : The Sentry Vs Molecule Man.

And Rich Remender use Bob this way too.

About Prime I already addressed those points in my previous post.

I invite you to check that.

Mxy was depowered of his magic.

Prime is resistant to Magic.

I let you do the maths.

Three

I agree that the nature of the power is more impressive/unusual, but the scale of demonstrated power is just the opposite. Sentry's best feat I can think of is multi-planetary (fight vs. photon), whereas Prime's best feat is universal. The difference in scale there is staggering. It's like an ant who can disassemble other ants trying to disassemble a city. Sentry has not fought anyone remotely on Prime's level, and I need to see Sentry demonstrating power on something close to that level (or at least using his molecular control to disassemble someone with good durability) before I can put him in Prime's league. For now, Sentry lacks the raw power to beat Prime IMO.

You can't put The Sentry in Prime's league as he is clearly above him.

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cooljammy18

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*sighs*

Prime.

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#87  Edited By RealityWarper

- Reaching and semantics aren't going to help your case. Regardless of whether or not you want to believe it, a universal explosion was required to deplete the guardian amp. You have no evidence or quantifiable estimation to suggest that Sentry's strength would be able to do the same over any period of time. The only thing you do have is one statement by Monarch that is vague at best. Even then, to suggest that Sentry's 'planet shaking punches at his weakest' are enough to weaken Prime is laughable considering he barrels through planets destroying them to no ill effect.

Fine.

He took the blast thanks to the remaining Oan energies AND made a Quantum Jump thanks to the Quantum Energy blast.

Sentry hit harder than any of the guys Prime has fought. Fact !

- Yes, Prime is hurt by powers, energies way less than universal, but Sentry was taken out by a hellicarrier. Lets not lowball here. And I say hurt very loosely because a thwack, grunt, or minor blood spill is hardly an indication of major pain/damage in comics and to suggest so is reaching at it's finest.

Wrong. Bob was taken out because he wanted to suicide so he lowered his durability.

He did it 3 times at least :

  • When he was into the Sun in order to suicide.
  • When he wanted to suicide at the end of Siege.
  • When he lowered his durability to show to Wasp and Thor that hurting his flesh is totally useless.

- No, Prime took the blast and was thrown lightyears through time. You can try to warp the panel evidence all you want, it won't change anything. Going by your logic, why wasn't the rest of universe designate 51 thrown through time? No, as it was confirmed more than once, the blast was destructive and Prime was right there at ground zero. The blast went off, Prime was thrown, the time trapper found him, sends him to the year 3000, where we see him reverted back to youth with his clothes torn off. He took the blast.

There is no indication about the rest of the Universe.

And without the Oan energies Monarch stomped him.

- What do you mean Sentry's powers have nothing to do with Supermen or Flashes? They were mentioned to show how powerful Prime already was as a boy.

None of them are reality warpers.

They aren't not in Sentry's league.

Clearly weaker.

- Oh.....wow...Ok, proof of DS Sentry being a multiversal reality warper? That's literally the first time i've ever heard of it lol

Yeah it's surprising when you know nothing about the character.

Let's see :

  • Changed the past :

http://i.imgur.com/AZZGolf.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/oItfgDq.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/2dNNnAa.jpg

  • Wiped out the memory of everyone :

http://i.imgur.com/HHPEZSQ.jpg

  • Defeated Molecule Man

http://imgur.com/a/VX8Gc

No, you're wrong. Myx is a reality warper, a true multiversal reality warper at that. His powers are sometimes described as magic, but it's no different than writers labeling Wanda's powers as chaos magic. I don't know what you're trying to prove with that scan, but a few pages before it you can read plain and simple that Prime flew into the 5th dimension and pretty much kidnapped Mr. Myx. So, no, he wasn't depowered. Also, that zatanna copy can talk big all she wants but Prime literally manhandled her and kept her as a servant, and Myx decided to make a tactical retreat rather than fight Prime. And, for the record, DS Sentry is nowhere near Myx in power.

Magic is the source of the powers.

Wanda's powers are magical aswell.

Even if they both can alter the reality.

Of course Mxy was depowered as he took his powers back after Prime left.

And Mxy is a joke character.

No, Superboy Prime can time travel with speed. He's meant to be a pre-crisis version of Superboy and has even been shown capable of escaping the speed force. The time trapper could see alternate realities and warp events to fit his plans, as well as time travel. Just because he found Prime floating in time and space doesn't mean diminish primes capabilities at all.

Superboy-prime is meant to be at the Silver-age superman power-level.

He is not designed to have all of his abilities.

Has he ever demonstrated a third of the 100 or more powers of the SA Superman ?

The answer is NO.

Superboy-prime is meant to be a crazy and more powerful version of Superman.

Not much.

Has he ever demonstrated the capacity to travel in the past ?

No.

Show me the scan or it never happened.

He couldn't escape the fact to be lost in time & space without the time-trapper.

Fact.

He casually destroyed a planet and emerged unscathed from it's destruction. What has DS Sentry done on that level? And, ftr, n52 shakes planets with his punches as well. And what quantifies 'limited' to you? You keep throwing that around when you can't even prove how much power the guardian amp gave him until you move to a universal scale. What is sentry going to do??

Sentry tanked and released planet-busting energies while holding back.

That's way above everything Superman-prime has ever do.

What didn't you understand in my previous post ???

Superman-prime is hurt by city-busting attacks and that depletes his limited Oan energies even faster...

Moreover Sentry is way more durable than Monarch has he can regrow from an atom quasi-instantly.

Something that will probably never happen as Prime as to bullrush like a crazy in order to destroy a simple planet so...

What is Prime going to do ?

Smash ?

Nice joke.

Proof that Sentry is a reality warper and universal threat? The best evidence he has to that effect are statements, healing and revivals, none of which hold up on the battle forums.

I already adressed those points.

You didn't prove anything. Myx wasn't depowered, Prime just showed up in the 5th dimension, beat him up, and kidnapped him. Myx is also a reality warper, not a magical being, and by feats, he outclasses DS Sentry and Wanda by miles. He can pull universes out his hat, rewrite reality on universal scales, exist outside of time and more.

Blablabla.

To keep repeating yourself means that you have no arguments ?

Mxy said himself that his powers are magical and that he didn't have them against Prime as he gave them to Zatanna.

Oh really ?

Wanda rewrited the reality of the MU during House of M at a Multiversal scale and The Sentry is above her.

No Caption Provided
No Caption Provided

Moreover she is clearly sexier than Mxy :

No Caption Provided

I find it funny that you bring up plot devices when Sentry is literally just a walking version of one.

The Sentry is an Earthbound hero and Mxy lives in another dimension.

I agree that everything can be a plot device.

Let's put Captain America or Batman in an Archie Comics ?

MMH tried to assault prime and he immediately reacted with a speed blitz.

MMH didn't recognize him on one encounter because he thinked that he was Superman, and didn't used his TP on the second encounter.

First :

http://imgur.com/a/CgC7y#0

http://i.imgur.com/O1ZLCFe.jpg

Second :

http://imgur.com/a/pPSiT#0

I don't see how deflecting light and radiation would be effective against SMP.

That means that he can stops all radiations to reach Prime and that will depower him in the worst case scenario as he needs the solar radiations to have his powers.

Invisibility is useless against someone with super sense

Except that Prime needs the photons to reach his eyes in order to see.

Has Prime ever used any other senses in a fight ?

Scans please.

and intangibility is also useless if the person can't react quick enough to use it.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh ! :D

This good odd argument of speed again !

In the MU, characters with the speed of The Sentry have instant reflexes so it's not even worth to debate this.

He will react.

Prime doesn't need a versatile power set. He's a brick. He just beats DS Sentry to death.

In your dreams probably.

But I guess you will told me later. :)))

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Kaioblitz4

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@realitywarper Please, just no. Sentry is not multiversal. He is very powerful, but most definitely not multiversal. Mister Mxzyptlk, Living Tribunal, Lucifer Morningstar, and HOTU Thanos are multiversal. Sentry is not.

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#89  Edited By RealityWarper
@kaioblitz4 said:

@realitywarper Please, just no. Sentry is not multiversal. He is very powerful, but most definitely not multiversal. Mister Mxzyptlk, Living Tribunal, Lucifer Morningstar, and HOTU Thanos are multiversal. Sentry is not.

Man.

HOM Wanda is multiversal.

Tony Stark and Moonstone state him as Wanda level or above.

Do the maths.

The fact is that he nerfed his powers by erasing his own memories so he forgot how to use them.

He was scared by his powers so he never used them at their full potential.

So he is potentially multiversal.

It's just that he is not aware about it.

And that's the way the writers have to use him.

There is a reason why the writers don't use characters like the Living Tribunal a lot, being too powerful makes the story boring if all other characters aren't in that case.

If I recall correctly in Sandman the characters are super powerfuls but because the power-level is really high then the story is interesting.

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Its odd to me when ppl nerf characters in a battle, just make it seems like they're trying to give an advantage to the opposing character. But this thread is going to end badly....

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#91  Edited By Kaioblitz4

@realitywarper said:
@kaioblitz4 said:

@realitywarper Please, just no. Sentry is not multiversal. He is very powerful, but most definitely not multiversal. Mister Mxzyptlk, Living Tribunal, Lucifer Morningstar, and HOTU Thanos are multiversal. Sentry is not.

Man.

HOM Wanda is multiversal.

Tony Stark and Moonstone state him as Wanda level or above.

Do the maths.

The fact is that he nerfed his powers by erasing his own memories so he forgot how to use it.

He was scared by his powers so he never used them at their full potential.

So he is potentially multiversal.

It's just that he is not aware about it.

And that's the way the writers have to use him.

There is a reason why the writers don't use characters like the Living Tribunal a lot, being too powerful makes the story boring if all other characters aren't in that case.

If I recall correcly in Sandman the characters are super powerfuls but because the power-level is really high then the story is interesting.

Feats > statements.

Characters like SP1M have been stated to have incredible powers, such as him having 5th dimensional reality warping, but no actual feats to back any of it up.

Nerfing your own powers does not equate into being multiversal.

Neither does being scared by your own powers.

Also, since when did Sentry have instantaneous reaction time?

Scarlet Witch isn't magical, her x-gene allows her to manipulate probability fields (which can in-turn be used for a multitude of applications).

Changing the past doesn't make you a reality warper.

Sentry only mindwiped Marvel Earth with the help of Cloc.

Saying SMP gets hurt by city-busting attacks is lowballing considering he flew though a planet without a single scratch on him.

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Feats > statements.

Characters like SP1M have been stated to have incredible powers, such as him having 5th dimensional reality warping, but no actual feats to back any of it up.

Nerfing your own powers does not equate into being multiversal.

Neither does being scared by your own powers.

About that feats > statements, since SP1M never beat anyone without a power ring- can you answer my question: who would win in a fight, SP1M or Catwoman.

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Kaioblitz4

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@hatemalingsia You're the OP, why are you debating in your own thread?

@kaioblitz4 said:

Feats > statements.

Characters like SP1M have been stated to have incredible powers, such as him having 5th dimensional reality warping, but no actual feats to back any of it up.

Nerfing your own powers does not equate into being multiversal.

Neither does being scared by your own powers.

About that feats > statements, since SP1M never beat anyone without a power ring- can you answer my question: who would win in a fight, SP1M or Catwoman.

SP1M is Clark Kent. He's defeated many people in the past as regular Superman.

Also, was there anything to indicate the statement referred to HOM SW specifically?

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hatemalingsia

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@hatemalingsia You're the OP, why are you debating in your own thread?

I never said any side will win. I only ask question so I can learn more, isn't that the purpose of thread like this? I made this to learn who will win between DSS and SP, as I have no idea who will come out on top.

@hatemalingsia said:

@kaioblitz4 said:

Feats > statements.

Characters like SP1M have been stated to have incredible powers, such as him having 5th dimensional reality warping, but no actual feats to back any of it up.

Nerfing your own powers does not equate into being multiversal.

Neither does being scared by your own powers.

About that feats > statements, since SP1M never beat anyone without a power ring- can you answer my question: who would win in a fight, SP1M or Catwoman.

SP1M is Clark Kent. He's defeated many people in the past as regular Superman.

Are you sure? Isn't that only statement? Can you provide me with feats of SP1M punching or kicking? How do you know he will keep up with Catwoman's agility?

Also, was there anything to indicate the statement referred to HOM SW specifically?

What do you mean? Unless you are referring to the other guy, not me.

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Kaioblitz4

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@kaioblitz4 said:

@hatemalingsia You're the OP, why are you debating in your own thread?

I never said any side will win. I only ask question so I can learn more, isn't that the purpose of thread like this? I made this to learn who will win between DSS and SP, as I have no idea who will come out on top.

@hatemalingsia said:

@kaioblitz4 said:

Feats > statements.

Characters like SP1M have been stated to have incredible powers, such as him having 5th dimensional reality warping, but no actual feats to back any of it up.

Nerfing your own powers does not equate into being multiversal.

Neither does being scared by your own powers.

About that feats > statements, since SP1M never beat anyone without a power ring- can you answer my question: who would win in a fight, SP1M or Catwoman.

SP1M is Clark Kent. He's defeated many people in the past as regular Superman.

Are you sure? Isn't that only statement? Can you provide me with feats of SP1M punching or kicking? How do you know he will keep up with Catwoman's agility?

Also, was there anything to indicate the statement referred to HOM SW specifically?

What do you mean? Unless you are referring to the other guy, not me.

Other guy.

Superman Prime = Superboy Prime + Guardian amp. DSS = Sentry + Death Seed.

You agree that DSS has Sentry's feats. Same thing for SMP for SBP. Why? They're the same person.

Same goes for SP1M.

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#96  Edited By RealityWarper

Feats > statements.

He has beaten Molecule Man <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< FEAT.

Characters like SP1M have been stated to have incredible powers, such as him having 5th dimensional reality warping, but no actual feats to back any of it up.

That's not screwattack fanboys statements here.

Marvel back it up.

The writers / narrators back it up.

The characters back it up.

FACT !

Nerfing your own powers does not equate into being multiversal.Neither does being scared by your own powers.

It was necessary for the stories.

Scarlet Witch isn't magical, her x-gene allows her to manipulate probability fields (which can in-turn be used for a multitude of applications).

And she uses the Chaos Magic, which is magical.

No Caption Provided

"Since Wanda is a nexus being -- a living focal point for Earth's mystical energies - we were able to combine our magicks to access and capture the life force itself..."

Moreover Wanda is linked to Chton, a magical being.

Changing the past doesn't make you a reality warper.

According to the fact that his creator Paul Jenkins made him at least a Reality and Time & Space manipulator.

That Bendis made him a Reality and Space & Time manipulator.

Sorry but yes he is.

Sentry only mindwiped Marvel Earth with the help of Cloc.

Cloc was here to hide what existed about the Sentry.

He emitted a subliminal message so the people who can see remaining newspapers or other things related to The Sentry ignore this information like they aren't here.

And Bob mindwiped the Earth more than once.

At least 3 times showed on panel and implied... A lot more !

Saying SMP gets hurt by city-busting attacks is lowballing considering he flew though a planet.

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah no ! Sorry again !

You links two feats that have nothing in common.

Flying through a planet in order to destroy it involves that you can be enough durable to go through the rocks and minerals, to support the rotation, the gravity, the radiations and the heat of the core, and other variables that doesn't matter at all in a comic book :

Superman-prime basically turned himself in a giant anti-planet bullet and it has nothing to do with an explosion capable of disintegrate a city : the explosion is more powerful as it hurted him.

Fun fact is that you said at the beginning of your post that Feats > Statements and it's the perfect exemple here :

The explosion totally engulfs the city and destroys every buildings :

http://i.imgur.com/ZXbscST.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/otGVHmX.jpg

Then Superman Prime reacts :

No Caption Provided

Just read the last two panels :

Prime : "... That hurt ! That really really hurt !!!!"

So yes :

Death Seed Sentry stomps Prime.

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#98  Edited By jpdag05

@jpdag05 said:

One

You're referring to Victoria Hand's statements to Norman Osborn? She was referencing the level of trouble he would bring, not comparing reality warping abilities.

No Caption Provided

It's a statement of Moonstone and she implies that Sentry has even more power than HOM Wanda... Just after he demolished Molecule Man that makes sense.

No Caption Provided

Tony Stark made a close diagnosis and add to the previous fact that sentry could erase the memories of everybody again, on a whim or by accident.

It was Moonstone, you're right. Thanks for catching that. However, I'm still not sure why you think she's saying Sentry is a stronger reality warper than Scarlet Witch.

Note how she's referencing what happened to Wanda as opposed to what happened because of Wanda. What happened to Wanda? She went crazy and became an enemy to be defeated, just like Sentry. She's most likely saying that Sentry is more crazy than Wanda (she is a psychiatrist/psychologist). Even if she is referencing Sentry's power/destructive potential being greater than Wanda's, why assume the power being referred to is reality warping?

Tony's conclusions are just that; his conclusions. He's been wrong before. Also, didn't Sentry have help with the mindwiping feat?

Two

That was molecular/atomic manipulation, not reality warping. He controls the molecules around him much like molecule man did. He cannot reshape reality to his will, break the laws of physics, wish people out of existence, or any of the other things that a true reality warper could (Unless there are some feats I don't know about in this regard, which is possible as I haven't been following the comics lately). Molecular control is not the equivalent of reality control. Besides, I remember Prime overpowering and dominating Mxyzptlk, a true reality warper, so it seems that his power is of such a scale that even reality warpers can be overpowered by him.

He can.

He reshaped the past in order to become the Angel Of Death.

Can Molecule Man do that ? No.

Sentry did.

Was this reshaping of the past ever stated? (Honestly not being argumentative, just not convinced here). Those Dark Avengers issues certainly never made that very clear to me. Honestly, my impression was that the serum allowed him to connect to dark energies that had existed and acted since Biblical times (hence the bizzare conversations between Bob and the Void as opposed to Sentry and the void). In any case, I don't see any indication of him rewriting the past.

Moreover Paul Jenkins himself told me that he wrote The Sentry as a reality warper.

Bendis confirmed it in an interview about the fight : The Sentry Vs Molecule Man.

And Rich Remender use Bob this way too.

Can't really respond to that as I haven't spoken to any authors. I'll have to take your word for it. If the author does intend his powers to be reality warping then that's what they are, but I'd really prefer feats of actual reality warping since they're much more reliable. In any case, we would then need to evaluate the effect these powers would have on Prime. Remember, Mxy chose to flee from Prime as quickly as possible after getting his power back and stated that it was so Prime wouldn't actually kill him. I don't think anyone would argue that Mxy is a legit reality warper (whose abilities are actually tech based IIRC), and he was still terrified of Prime after getting his powers back. Prime is serious powerhouse.

About Prime I already addressed those points in my previous post.

I invite you to check that.

Mxy was depowered of his magic.

Prime is resistant to Magic.

I let you do the maths.

I saw those posts, but I'll let you keep debating those merits with buttersdaman000 to avoid repeating his arguments. Suffice it to say I agree you're lowballing Prime and Monitor pretty seriously, disagree in much the same way he does about your interpretation of Monitor's universe busting explosion, and think Sentry's percieved potential is trumping his feats a bit.

Three

I agree that the nature of the power is more impressive/unusual, but the scale of demonstrated power is just the opposite. Sentry's best feat I can think of is multi-planetary (fight vs. photon), whereas Prime's best feat is universal. The difference in scale there is staggering. It's like an ant who can disassemble other ants trying to disassemble a city. Sentry has not fought anyone remotely on Prime's level, and I need to see Sentry demonstrating power on something close to that level (or at least using his molecular control to disassemble someone with good durability) before I can put him in Prime's league. For now, Sentry lacks the raw power to beat Prime IMO.

You can't put The Sentry in Prime's league as he is clearly above him.

We obviously disagree here. I think the reverse is true.

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buttersdaman000

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#99  Edited By buttersdaman000

Are you Czarny_Samael666? Just skimming your post I can tell your debating me with a reactionary style, hoping I don't know what i'm talking about. So, real quick....

- To suggest DS Sentry hits harder than the opponents Prime fought is laughable. I've seen the scan of the punch he delivered to Thor. 'The impact was felt around the world'. Impressive but Monarch was one-shotting Supermen and other beings of that level with power blast and punches during his battledomeevent. A single Superman has at least enough on panel power to split moons with deflectedpunches and Superboy Prime takes on 2-3 at a single time. Then you also have him soloing dozens of Green Lanterns, taking on Guardians, beating down Ion, fighting Flashes and more, yet your really believe DS Sentry hits harder because of one panel? Ok....

- My point there wasn't to prove anything, it was show you that anybody could be lowballed.

- Monarch never fought Prime without the Guardian Amp.......and, again, multiple times they confirmed that universe designate-51 had to be rebuilt. Here's one of them. Stop trying to twist things in you favor.

- Sentry isn't a reality warper....you should know more about the character you're debating for. Anyways, simply having a more powerful ability set does not make you the more powerful character if the feats don't match up.

- Still not a reality warper.

  • I don't know the context behind the first set of scan, but changing the past does not make you a reality warper. By that logic, Barry Allen must also be a reality warper.
  • Mind Wiping does not make a character a reality warper either. By that logic half of the MU and DCU are reality warpers.
  • I've already said the MM fight was PIS. MM has feats far and beyond anything Sentry has ever done both before and avert heir fight. It's as farfetched as Prime beating down Mr. Myx. But, if you insist on using it, Prime still has the latter as one of his notches.

- You're blatantly ignoring the fact that Mr. Myx was forcibly snatched from the 5th dimension and later chose to make a tactical retreat after he escaped instead of going back to fight. And you can call Myx a joke character all you want, it doesn't lessen his feats any.

- I said pre-crisis, not Silver age. There is a difference. Anyways, admittedly, I confused his ability to do so with a throw away statement. I'll concede that point.

- Lol what? How many times do I have to tell you that Prime planet bust/moves casually, he has unquantifiable/ridiculous feats ranging from busting out of dimensions, flying into other dimensions, and destroying the source wall. ? How is DS Sentry above him in that regard at all? Show me these scans and prove it.

- Are you back to lowballing now? And even contradicting yourself too? Prime gets hurt by city busters, sentry gets taken out by a helecarrier and who cares how you spin it. And you just literally said this! --->

Fine.

He took the blast thanks to the remaining Oan energies AND made a Quantum Jump thanks to the Quantum Energy blast.

- Those are your words lol

- Prime will bullrush right through Sentry. A win is a win.

- Ok...Great for Wanda but Myx and other imps on his level can effortlessly destroyuniverses...And where is this proof that Sentry is even above HoM Wanda?

- Sentry has never used his powers to zone in on and manipulate a single form of radiation.

- SMP has all the senses any Kryptonian would have. wasting my time to show you proof of super hearing, smell, or whatever would be like explaining why 2 + 2 = 4.

- Instant reflexes mean nothing. How fast is instant? Since you're suddenly a stickler for scans, give me some proof of reaction speed.

SMP beats Sentry into the afterlife.

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hatemalingsia

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Other guy.

Superman Prime = Superboy Prime + Guardian amp. DSS = Sentry + Death Seed.

You agree that DSS has Sentry's feats. Same thing for SMP for SBP. Why? They're the same person.

Same goes for SP1M.

So you do agree with me regarding character's statements are just as credible as other sources. Because this is where I get the DSS = Bob w/ Death Seed - Void, but with all the powers that come with it, aka. DSS = Sentry + Death Seed. If yes, you agree that statements are just as credible as other sources; if no, you contradict your own answer by saying SP1M can beat Catwoman from statements only.

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