Death Seed Sentry vs Pre-Crisis Darkseid

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deactivated-5e46df20c7e13

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This Fight takes place in a neutral Universe so all characters have full use of there ability/powers. Winner via BFR or Death.

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RealityWarper

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Good question.

PC-Darkseid was a beast.

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kgb725

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Stalemate ?

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deactivated-5e46df20c7e13

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Good question.

PC-Darkseid was a beast.

Yeah totally unsure of this one, they can for the most part cancel one another out. My only real debate would be if DSS can cancel out the Omega Effect?

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TheGrayGhost

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The pre crisis omega effect doesnt have impressive feats other than in COIE

Not that he needs it here

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RealityWarper

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@realitywarper said:

Good question.

PC-Darkseid was a beast.

Yeah totally unsure of this one, they can for the most part cancel one another out. My only real debate would be if DSS can cancel out the Omega Effect?

It depends.

I guess that you are speaking about the Omega Sanction.

I think that yes as he came back from a time-kill that Morgan Le Fay used against him and that was before he was aware of his powers and that he know that he can reform instantly.

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Frisky4

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Well neither can kill the other, so I guess DSS has a shot at BFRing him to a different planet.

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TheGrayGhost

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@frisky4 said:

Well neither can kill the other, so I guess DSS has a shot at BFRing him to a different planet.

Yes because nobody tried that at the end of GDS did they........

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TheGrayGhost

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@supremthor said:
@realitywarper said:

Good question.

PC-Darkseid was a beast.

Yeah totally unsure of this one, they can for the most part cancel one another out. My only real debate would be if DSS can cancel out the Omega Effect?

It depends.

I guess that you are speaking about the Omega Sanction.

I think that yes as he came back from a time-kill that Morgan Le Fay used against him and that was before he was aware of his powers and that he know that he can reform instantly.

To be more precise what le fay did was take him out for the entire story arc with him turning up later with no explanations whatsoever

Anyway, Darkseid throws him back in time and takes the win via BFR

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frozen

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#10 frozen  Moderator

Sentry.

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mysticmedivh

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Darkseid.

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Newblood2333

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#12  Edited By Newblood2333

Sentry

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TheGrayGhost

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Yeeaah... to the guys saying "Sentry"

Feats for the dude moving through time/ coming back from a time dump?

Because, otherwise, the battle becomes academic as far as "the dude who can send people through time" vs " the dude who can't come back from being sent through time" goes

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Speedster101

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@thegrayghost: Sentry has Infact countered a time paradox created by morgan lefay.

Anyways, Sentry wins, Molecule Manip. and Regen as his MVPs

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Nathaniel_Adam

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TheGrayGhost

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#16  Edited By TheGrayGhost

@speedster101 said:

@thegrayghost: Sentry has Infact countered a time paradox created by morgan lefay.

Anyways, Sentry wins, Molecule Manip. and Regen as his MVPs

What sentry actually did, with regards to that feat , was get wiped out from the timeline with exactly zero time shenanigans involved beyond that

That isnt the same thing as " Imma send you to the 31st century at will and see what you can do from there", wherein a character with actual feats for time travel cannot come back from said time dump

As far as "counters" to "time paradoxes" go, how useful do you feel getting altogether wiped out and taking as long as the next story arc to piece himself back together goes?

Or essentially you are arguing that say...hmm Namor can "counter" BFR to another galaxy...by ( eventually} flying back. While true, it does by itself raise some ....interesting questions about your ideas of what exactly counts as a BFR with regards to time limits etc

Anyway irrelevant as Sentry resisted ( survived) the equivalent of someone trying to erase him from the timeline and nothing actually related to being dumped in another century

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TheGrayGhost

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Hmm ..how best to put that Le Fay feat since this is bound to pop up again..

It was Le Fay trying to pull off a nifty little trick wherein sentry would not have existed at all in the marvel universe timeline. This apparently worked at the time, only for sentry to turn up with no explanation whatsoever at the end of the arc

Its like what Darkseids OBs used to be , before they became a joke

Not only do they wipe out the person, they remove all knowledge of his existence / any records that he existed in the first place

Its a great durability feat right up there with Molecule man scattering his molecules and all. sentry IS very difficult to kill

But this has nothing whatsoever to do with being dumped in another century, which sentry has zero feats for doing anything about it, once he is in another time zone

So yes Sentry loses ia time dumping

There are various other ways in which he loses...but this is the most clear cut/ obvious way

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darkseid1006

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Not Sentry

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Luda12331

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#19  Edited By Luda12331

Sentry wins by ripping Darkseid in half.

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RealityWarper

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@realitywarper said:

@supremthor said:
@realitywarper said:

Good question.

PC-Darkseid was a beast.

Yeah totally unsure of this one, they can for the most part cancel one another out. My only real debate would be if DSS can cancel out the Omega Effect?

It depends.

I guess that you are speaking about the Omega Sanction.

I think that yes as he came back from a time-kill that Morgan Le Fay used against him and that was before he was aware of his powers and that he know that he can reform instantly.

To be more precise what le fay did was take him out for the entire story arc with him turning up later with no explanations whatsoever

Anyway, Darkseid throws him back in time and takes the win via BFR

1) He exploded. ^^ Morgan Le Fay had no other means to kill him than performing a time-kill.

2) Well, he hasn't displayed the ability to travel through time as I know, at least that wasn't show on panel. I guess that if he can change the reality of event through he could do it if he realize his potential.

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skyroid

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@luda12331: Yep, agreed.

Any one who says sentry loses or dies I will be sending a troll with prep after you.

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deactivated-5cb5c24a12dfe

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@luda12331: Because that would kill Darkseid... Not. And that's assuming Sentry could do that.

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TheGrayGhost

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@thegrayghost said:

@realitywarper said:

@supremthor said:
@realitywarper said:

Good question.

PC-Darkseid was a beast.

Yeah totally unsure of this one, they can for the most part cancel one another out. My only real debate would be if DSS can cancel out the Omega Effect?

It depends.

I guess that you are speaking about the Omega Sanction.

I think that yes as he came back from a time-kill that Morgan Le Fay used against him and that was before he was aware of his powers and that he know that he can reform instantly.

To be more precise what le fay did was take him out for the entire story arc with him turning up later with no explanations whatsoever

Anyway, Darkseid throws him back in time and takes the win via BFR

1) He exploded. ^^ Morgan Le Fay had no other means to kill him than performing a time-kill.

2) Well, he hasn't displayed the ability to travel through time as I know, at least that wasn't show on panel. I guess that if he can change the reality of event through he could do it if he realize his potential.

This goes into "but Darkseid's OBs could wipe him out if he realized his potential " territory and frankly the latter is better supported by feats than the former

What I'm saying is if he doesn't have feats for doing it , he can't do it, short of speculation

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RealityWarper

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@realitywarper said:

@thegrayghost said:

@realitywarper said:

@supremthor said:
@realitywarper said:

Good question.

PC-Darkseid was a beast.

Yeah totally unsure of this one, they can for the most part cancel one another out. My only real debate would be if DSS can cancel out the Omega Effect?

It depends.

I guess that you are speaking about the Omega Sanction.

I think that yes as he came back from a time-kill that Morgan Le Fay used against him and that was before he was aware of his powers and that he know that he can reform instantly.

To be more precise what le fay did was take him out for the entire story arc with him turning up later with no explanations whatsoever

Anyway, Darkseid throws him back in time and takes the win via BFR

1) He exploded. ^^ Morgan Le Fay had no other means to kill him than performing a time-kill.

2) Well, he hasn't displayed the ability to travel through time as I know, at least that wasn't show on panel. I guess that if he can change the reality of event through he could do it if he realize his potential.

This goes into "but Darkseid's OBs could wipe him out if he realized his potential " territory and frankly the latter is better supported by feats than the former

What I'm saying is if he doesn't have feats for doing it , he can't do it, short of speculation

Depends how you interpretate the Time-kill from Morgana Le Fay.

He is killed in the past when he is powerless (the only way for her to kill him) and he come back just fine in the present.

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Baron_von_Santa

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Luda12331

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@nickras: Sentry did it to at least 5 people, including Gods. He would have no problem doing it to DS as well. If you don't want to go by that logic, then he rips DS to pieces like he did MM. Either way, it's a win for Sentry.

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TheGrayGhost

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@realitywarper:

Depends how you interpretate the Time-kill from Morgana Le Fay.

He is killed in the past when he is powerless (the only way for her to kill him) and he come back just fine in the present.

He "dies" in the presnt just fine. He exploded in the present and came back from that

Its pretty much like MM ripping him apart, except for Morgana doing it earlier with the classic " if i killed my grandfather..." scenario

He ceased to exist in the present and people were well aware of him ceasing to exist in the present

So no, thats not time travel. At all. its a durability feat

And in any case, meaningless even taken at face value, given how long it took him to come back

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RealityWarper

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WastelandMan

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Well this is tough. Obviously both are powerhouses with significant power sets. However, I think if anyone looks at the evidence and feats provided for both it's pretty clear that Batman probably solos.

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ThEBeStOfTheBeST

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Darkseid

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OrdinaryAlan

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I'd say Darkseid.

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Newblood2333

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Sentry. Also, it's easy to tell that the OP is a little biased.

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@realitywarper:

Depends how you interpretate the Time-kill from Morgana Le Fay.

He is killed in the past when he is powerless (the only way for her to kill him) and he come back just fine in the present.

He "dies" in the presnt just fine. He exploded in the present and came back from that

Its pretty much like MM ripping him apart, except for Morgana doing it earlier with the classic " if i killed my grandfather..." scenario

He ceased to exist in the present and people were well aware of him ceasing to exist in the present

So no, thats not time travel. At all. its a durability feat

And in any case, meaningless even taken at face value, given how long it took him to come back

Imo that's not the point here :

Let's look at what happened :

Scan 1 : Morgan Le Fay is killed by The Sentry.

Scan 2 : The Sentry explode releasing some Yellow energies. No showings of Morgana purple energies so we can argue that she didn't snipe him with her Dark Magic.

Scan 3 : Morgana come back, explain that she isn't from our time and that even she is killed she can come back in their childhood and remove them from existence.

Why do I think that's the only way she had to kill the Sentry ?

At first, let's look at Morgana profile :

What can Morgana do ?

  1. Control Sentry's mind ? Nope. SS Dr Strange tried and failed. He even said that Sentry is too powerful for that kind of magic. Moreover Bob let him enter into his mind.
No Caption Provided

2.To attack Bob with Magical bolts... Well, we both know that Bob is not even affected by planet-busting attacks so... She can't kill him this way.

3. Remove Bob spirit and place him under her control : that obviously didn't happen.

4. To attack Bob physically ? Clearly not when he has his powers as she can't hurt him sooo maybe before he ingest the potion ? That sounds good to me :

No Caption Provided

My conclusion :

Morgana killed Bob before he got his powers in the past and even then that couldn't kill him permanently as he came back from the past too. That explains too why Bob didn't reform himself at the place where he was killed but near the Watchtower.

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TheGrayGhost

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#34  Edited By TheGrayGhost

@realitywarper:

Imo that's not the point here :

Let's look at what happened :

Scan 1 : Morgan Le Fay is killed by The Sentry.

Scan 2 : The Sentry explode releasing some Yellow energies. No showings of Morgana purple energies so we can argue that she didn't snipe him with her Dark Magic.

Scan 3 : Morgana come back, explain that she isn't from our time and that even she is killed she can come back in their childhood and remove them from existence.

Why do I think that's the only way she had to kill the Sentry ?

At first, let's look at Morgana profile :

What can Morgana do ?

  1. Control Sentry's mind ? Nope. SS Dr Strange tried and failed. He even said that Sentry is too powerful for that kind of magic. Moreover Bob let him enter into his mind.

2.To attack Bob with Magical bolts... Well, we both know that Bob is not even affected by planet-busting attacks so... She can't kill him this way.

3. Remove Bob spirit and place him under her control : that obviously didn't happen.

4. To attack Bob physically ? Clearly not when he has his powers as she can't hurt him sooo maybe before he ingest the potion ? That sounds good to me :

My conclusion :

Morgana killed Bob before he got his powers in the past and even then that couldn't kill him permanently as he came back from the past too. That explains too why Bob didn't reform himself at the place where he was killed but near the Watchtower.

As exciting as arguing via bio datas and wikis is,thank you but I decline the offer

Now while we are back to feats, scans of Sentry time travelling in a comic?

Has he ever done this, beyond that hmm...interesting theory presented there? Yes or no will suffice

Because if "no", as exciting as speculating about an omnipotent sentry and his powers are, I'd much rather not waste my time

That being said, scans for sentry reforming near the watchtower on panel after this?

Because if not, that really makes the list of things you are speculating about rather longer than usual even by sentry thread standards

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TheGrayGhost

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@realitywarper: Imo that's not the point here :

The "point" is she killed him in the past , but him being the dude that comes back from molecule scattering, still survived and came back to life after a .....looong while ( meaningless for battles purposes)

This is not the first or last time, people have changed the past or future in marvel only for those effects to not last given ...reasons. The reason here being "Sentry is a reallllyy hard dude to kill. as in rip his own face off for shits and giggles hard"

That being said, since according to you sentry totally died in the past but somehow came back to the present off panel based on nothing at all.....just tell me this

If sentry died before getting his powers, he never became sentry in the first place

Ergo sentry ceased to ever have existed

Ergo the Dark Avengers never knew a man named sentry

So, what do you feel happens in the comicafter sentrys "death". Do they altogether forget him, yes or no?

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RealityWarper

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@realitywarper:



Because if not, that really makes the list of things you are speculating about rather longer than usual even by sentry thread standards

As exciting as arguing via bio datas and wikis is,thank you but I decline the offer

People who makes the bios possess ALL ISSUES concerning the character and they are supervised by Tom Brevoort himself or the guy with the same job at the moment so they are reliable.

Here I showed the different possibilities for Morgana to kill Bob and only the time-kill appears logical.

Now while we are back to feats, scans of Sentry time travelling in a comic?

Has he ever done this, beyond that hmm...interesting theory presented there? Yes or no will suffice

Because if "no", as exciting as speculating about an omnipotent sentry and his powers are, I'd much rather not waste my time

No but... He changed the past to suits his whims.

And he is a multiversal reality warper.

And he is a time-manipulator.

And he has gone through stasis fields.

That being said, scans for sentry reforming near the watchtower on panel after this?

Sentry has exploded in Latveria when he was killed in the past by Morgana.

Then the Dark Avengers come back home then Bob materialize when there are on the way and wait for them.

You can see when Bob reforms with the blinding light.

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Baron_von_Santa

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@realitywarper: There's a couple of ways for Darkseid to win this. One via the Omega Sanction which causes people to live multiple lifespans in an instant, and also, he has time manipulation. He can just send Sentry into the future.

Don't get me wrong, this is a great fight; both sides can't put the other down, but Darkseid has BFR on his side, and the rules here state they can BFR.

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Beware_My_Power

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LOL, that would probably be Sentry's reaction when he sees Darksied.

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Speedster101

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Doom_Phd

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Sentry can take on Skyfather beings now? Sentry Fanboys need to be omega sanctioned lmao

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mysticmedivh

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And he is a multiversal reality warper.

No Caption Provided

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Newblood2333

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If the Voids feats count then he will win.

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TheGrayGhost

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@realitywarper:

People who makes the bios possess ALL ISSUES concerning the character and they are supervised by Tom Brevoort himself or the guy with the same job at the moment so they are reliable.

Here I showed the different possibilities for Morgana to kill Bob and only the time-kill appears logical.

Bios then. Uhh i will just skip this one

No but... He changed the past to suits his whims.

When

And he is a multiversal reality warper.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

And he is a time-manipulator.

When

And he has gone through stasis fields.

So?

You can see when Bob reforms with the blinding light.

So now "sentry flying in the air in a flash of light " translates to him "reforming near the watchtower?

Good lord, you are reaching

We have no idea when, how or where Bob reforms till he shows up just before Siege right there. That isnt him reforming, thats him returning to the tower after having reformed off panel

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RealityWarper

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@realitywarper: Imo that's not the point here :

The "point" is she killed him in the past , but him being the dude that comes back from molecule scattering, still survived and came back to life after a .....looong while ( meaningless for battles purposes)

Of course, but that was the first time that Bob was killed. The other times that he reformed he came back faster and faster against MM. Moreover you can note that he reformed instantly against Wasp & Thor.

This is not the first or last time, people have changed the past or future in marvel only for those effects to not last given ...reasons. The reason here being "Sentry is a reallllyy hard dude to kill. as in rip his own face off for shits and giggles hard"

The reason here is : Sentry can't be killed.

That being said, since according to you sentry totally died in the past but somehow came back to the present off panel based on nothing at all.....just tell me this

Morgana said that she can kill the Dark Avengers in their childhood after she killed Bob and she had no other means to kill him as I showed to you in my previous post.

If sentry died before getting his powers, he never became sentry in the first place

Except if his powers can't be removed by any means if the Super Soldier Serum made him immortal & eternal.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/eternal

eternal

1. Being without beginning or end: belief in an eternal creator.

2.

a. Continuing without interruption; perpetual: earned my eternal gratitude. See Synonyms at continual.b. Seemingly endless; interminable: eternal waiting at the airport.

n.

1. Something timeless, uninterrupted, or endless: "Shall we speak of universals and eternals?" (Cynthia Ozick).2. Eternal God. Used with the.

That sounds logical as Bendis implies that Sentry's powers come from the same source than the Christian God who is... ETERNAL.

Ergo sentry ceased to ever have existed

Ergo the Dark Avengers never knew a man named sentry

So, what do you feel happens in the comicafter sentrys "death". Do they altogether forget him, yes or no?

They didn't.

But I gave my opinion above about this.

@realitywarper:

Don't get me wrong, this is a great fight; both sides can't put the other down, but Darkseid has BFR on his side, and the rules here state they can BFR.

There's a couple of ways for Darkseid to win this. One via the Omega Sanction which causes people to live multiple lifespans in an instant, and also, he has time manipulation. He can just send Sentry into the future.

That makes sense to me.

The two instances that makes me think that The Sentry has some immunity to time-manipulation are the time-kill I talked about previously.

The stasis fields (that freeze everything in time) that were useless against him (he flew through them) :

No Caption Provided

Moreover he his feat against Thor shows that he can go above the speed of light by bending space & time and even he had the delusion that he has conquered space & time can be true as he can warp his own reality to empower himself :

Moreover he showed to be able being at two places at once as The Void & The Sentry and that can shows some ubiquity too, limited to two places only by his own beliefs.

I think that my best answer about a fight between this two beasts are :

  1. Up to the writer.
  2. Stalemate.
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TheGrayGhost

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#45  Edited By TheGrayGhost

This thread is sadly turning into another of those " sentrys powers are whatever i want them to be , screw feats" threads, with some of the speculation here approaching fan fiction levels , and I for one want no further part in this

This is also poor form from Realitywarper, who even ignoring all the speculation about off panel stuff and writer bios whatever, is resorting to Sentrys powers coming from the christian god type arguments when previously in the PC Captain Marvel vs DSS thread not so long ago, he outright dismissed Bendis ' Angel of Death stuff when it suited him so

Ehh...that kind of thread. I'm out

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Master-Danny

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what can do PC Darkseid besides running away from Bronze Age Superman (the same guy that can barely tank planet busting attacks)?

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transcendence

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#47  Edited By transcendence

PC Darkseid.

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TheGrayGhost

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what can do PC Darkseid besides running away from Bronze Age Superman (the same guy that can barely tank planet busting attacks)?

That's an interesting argument considering Darkseid never fought superman in the pre crisis era

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#49  Edited By Master-Danny

@thegrayghost said:

@master-danny said:

what can do PC Darkseid besides running away from Bronze Age Superman (the same guy that can barely tank planet busting attacks)?

That's an interesting argument considering Darkseid never fought superman in the pre crisis era

Superboy and Supergirl???

edit - ????

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@realitywarper: I swear your CVs Sentry encyclopedia

I'm trying my best.


Bios then. Uhh i will just skip this one

It's up to you.

When

When he became the Angel Of Death... And a lot of other events linked to his past aren't really clear : did he really removed everybody memories or did he just changed the past through reality warping ?

And he is a multiversal reality warper.

HAHAHAHAHAHAH

<<< You can laugh but that's what Bendis tried to show.

Since Civil War he said that Sentry could trigger an HOM Scarlet Witch event and Wanda was multiversal at this moment.

That's why he showed Sentry destroying Molecule Man : to push this idea further and make it legit.

Look at Dark Reign files when you compare Molecule Man to The Sentry.

Sentry is the one considered "the most powerful man in existence", not Owen.

Moreover in an interview, Bendis clearly explained his intention to show the Molecule Man at his best :

Dark Avengers #10 :

"You'll also find out what's happening with Venom. I think that's going to be funny for people, because Venom's medication just might have some bad side effects. Most of the Dark Avengers are medicated, but that doesn't always work out. Venom with side effects from his meds will be fun."

Venom's meds will cause problems at the worst possible time because the villain of the next "Dark Avengers" arc is the immensely powerful Molecule Man. "How do the Dark Avengers fight someone who can control the very molecules they breathe?" Bendis remarked. "The Molecule Man is what I consider one of those A-List villains who, in my opinion, doesn't seem to get the A-List treatment. So I'm going to treat him well. And, boy, you know who draws him well? Mike Deodato! He really gives the Molecule Man a great look."

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=23206

And he is a time-manipulator.

When

He made subtle changes through Marvel history, became the Angel Of Death and Paul Jenkins himself told me that he created him as a time-manipulator too :

No Caption Provided

And he has gone through stasis fields.

So?

That's the same thing that going through a time-stop.

There is very few Marvel characters capable of that feat.

You can see when Bob reforms with the blinding light.

So now "sentry flying in the air in a flash of light " translates to him "reforming near the watchtower?

That clearly shows that he didn't reform in the place of his death.

Good lord, you are reaching

We have no idea when, how or where Bob reforms till he shows up just before Siege right there. That isnt him reforming, thats him returning to the tower after having reformed off panel

The blinding light is a sign when Sentry appears or disappears.

If he reformed in Latveria then he teleported here.

If not he just reformed here.

That makes more sense to think that he reformed here as he thinked that he was dead and he didn't know that he could not die so he subconsciously reformed at his home.

Teleportation (space manipulation) :

And I said Sentry didn't come back consciously so it is clear that he reformed in the most familiar place to him : His home the Watch tower.

"Did I die ? Back in Latveria, did I ?"