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#1 Edited by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio

 
    


can death and sibling oblivion take down the bringer of life?

 

rules:
  • battle takes place everywhere
  • if death and oblivion don't have the means to defeat the phoenix force they can summon assistance below.
 
 
 
  
 assistance:
  
 
  galactus and atum
  


 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

 
 

                                                                                  vs

 
  




#2 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

Even MultiDeath and Multi-Oblivion don't have a chance against whole PF.

#3 Posted by Power NeXus (10267 posts) - - Show Bio

Lance, haven't the mods told you to stop embedding music?
#4 Edited by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Power NeXus said:

" Lance, haven't the mods told you to stop embedding music? "

only one of them did, but the majority of the other mods suggest i only post them on my threads and not in anyone else's. it was two mods vs 1. and it was during an appeal time when i was banned for bumping up 3 pages of my topics. (which is why i don't bump alot anymore)
#5 Posted by karrob (4287 posts) - - Show Bio

PF

#6 Posted by Power NeXus (10267 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro:
Correction: 
Two mods vs one mod and all the Battles forum regulars
#7 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6145 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro: Lance, I think I recognize your music....  It's from Castlevania : Symphony of the Night, right ? Epic game.
#8 Posted by Mercy_ (93025 posts) - - Show Bio
@Power NeXus said:
" @Lance Bastro: Correction: Two mods vs one mod and all the Battles forum regulars "
QFT.
Moderator
#9 Posted by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Lance Bastro: Lance, I think I recognize your music....  It's from Castlevania : Symphony of the Night, right ? Epic game. "
correct. will it be a habit to guess all the music i put up? haha
#10 Posted by Prince CortSether (2435 posts) - - Show Bio

Oblivion wins. Death would be ineffective against something that cannot truly die - though she is higher than the PF in the grand scheme of things. 
 
Still, Oblivion would have no trouble doing this on his own, imo.

#11 Posted by Achilles. (3912 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
" Oblivion wins. Death would be ineffective against something that cannot truly die - though she is higher than the PF in the grand scheme of things.   Still, Oblivion would have no trouble doing this on his own, imo. "
#12 Posted by Thor's hammmer (7186 posts) - - Show Bio

didn't oblivion get beat by iceman?
#13 Posted by Lance Bastro (5168 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thor's hammmer said:
" didn't oblivion get beat by iceman? "
he didn't really get beat by iceman. iceman was trying to convince oblivion how to manage his daughter. although, iceman did do a good job not dying in the process lol
#14 Posted by GamorasBigDaddy (2962 posts) - - Show Bio
@Power NeXus said:
"@Lance Bastro: Correction: Two mods vs one mod and all the Battles forum regulars "

LOL...
#15 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6145 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro said:
" @TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Lance Bastro: Lance, I think I recognize your music....  It's from Castlevania : Symphony of the Night, right ? Epic game. "
correct. will it be a habit to guess all the music i put up? haha "
Oh, I think that is entertaining.
#16 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio

PF is second to LT.
It created MArvel Prime Multiverse and has avatars in each other universe (and each other of them can destroy a universe).

#17 Posted by MutieLover (103 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" PF is second to LT. It created MArvel Prime Multiverse and has avatars in each other universe (and each other of them can destroy a universe). "
Nope.
#18 Posted by mattek (1151 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
" Oblivion wins. Death would be ineffective against something that cannot truly die - though she is higher than the PF in the grand scheme of things.   Still, Oblivion would have no trouble doing this on his own, imo. "
Death can not die either.
#19 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio
@mutielover said:
" @czarny_samael said:
" PF is second to LT. It created MArvel Prime Multiverse and has avatars in each other universe (and each other of them can destroy a universe). "
Nope. "
Yes, it is.
#20 Posted by Prince CortSether (2435 posts) - - Show Bio
@mattek said:
" @Prince CortSether said:
" Oblivion wins. Death would be ineffective against something that cannot truly die - though she is higher than the PF in the grand scheme of things.   Still, Oblivion would have no trouble doing this on his own, imo. "
Death can not die either. "
I know. I'm merely saying that Death cannot kill things that cannot die. Then again PF cannot kill death itself so they are both ineffective to each other. Oblivion would have no problem overcoming PF imo, however.
#21 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:
" @mattek said:
" @Prince CortSether said:
" Oblivion wins. Death would be ineffective against something that cannot truly die - though she is higher than the PF in the grand scheme of things.   Still, Oblivion would have no trouble doing this on his own, imo. "
Death can not die either. "
I know. I'm merely saying that Death cannot kill things that cannot die. Then again PF cannot kill death itself so they are both ineffective to each other. Oblivion would have no problem overcoming PF imo, however. "
She can't be killed but it can be erased. As she was in Cancerverse.
#22 Posted by Prince CortSether (2435 posts) - - Show Bio
@czarny_samael said:
" @Prince CortSether said:
" @mattek said:
" @Prince CortSether said:
" Oblivion wins. Death would be ineffective against something that cannot truly die - though she is higher than the PF in the grand scheme of things.   Still, Oblivion would have no trouble doing this on his own, imo. "
Death can not die either. "
I know. I'm merely saying that Death cannot kill things that cannot die. Then again PF cannot kill death itself so they are both ineffective to each other. Oblivion would have no problem overcoming PF imo, however. "
She can't be killed but it can be erased. As she was in Cancerverse. "
She can be erased by those with sufficient power to erase her. PF isn't one of those, imo. Though PF is powerful.
#23 Edited by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio
@Prince CortSether said:

" She can be erased by those with sufficient power to erase her. PF isn't one of those, imo. Though PF is powerful. "

She is as powerfull as I said before.
 
We're not talking about it's Avatar, like Dark Phoenix, Green Phoenix or even White Phoenix of the Crown. WPotC will be able to do this too, because it is a universal buster, but PF is sum of all Phoenix's avatars from all universes in multiverse (billions upon billions according to Living Tribunal) so it is multiversal threat and one of most powerfull beings in Marvel Megaverse, just below LT.
#24 Edited by "Colossus" (4755 posts) - - Show Bio
@Thor's hammmer said:

" didn't oblivion get beat by iceman? "

oblivion killed the immortal elders of the universe  (or erased them from existance altogether)
 he is beyond death
#25 Posted by czarny_samael666 (17181 posts) - - Show Bio
@"Colossus" said:
" @Thor's hammmer said:

" didn't oblivion get beat by iceman? "

oblivion killed the immortal elders of the universe  (or erased them from existance altogether) he is beyond death "
Oblivion's speciallity is killing people who are anomaly and who are banned from Death's realm, but yeah I would say that he is more powerfull than Death because he is harder to erase.
#26 Posted by Lord_Moldemvort (145 posts) - - Show Bio

you honestly think the whole force is that powerful? shes a featless over hyped wad of nonsense

any of the 4 could possibly solo

#27 Posted by jeanroygrant (20442 posts) - - Show Bio

Team.

#28 Posted by IZZR (4889 posts) - - Show Bio

Oblivion Solo's

#29 Posted by Prince_RehteStroC (141 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lord_Moldemvort said:

you honestly think the whole force is that powerful? shes a featless over hyped wad of nonsense

any of the 4 could possibly solo

This.

And I slightly revise what I said earlier - Death may not be able to truly kill Phoenix but she can shatter its firebird form with a simple touch seeing as how she crippled the entire Cancerverse.

#30 Posted by Lord_Moldemvort (145 posts) - - Show Bio

@Prince_RehteStroC: she cant kill her mainly due to her role in the universe, but as far as power goes death is above the phoenix by land slides

#31 Edited by ShootingNova (20922 posts) - - Show Bio

This is a severe mismatch. Death and Oblivion stomp. In fact, either of them can solo (Oblivion definitely can, Death is more debatable but the chances are skewered more towards her favour anyways).

#32 Posted by kingkronos (2532 posts) - - Show Bio

Oblivion solos easily.

#33 Posted by Driger (140 posts) - - Show Bio

@kingkronos said:

Oblivion solos easily....

.....in your dreams.

#34 Posted by Saren (26834 posts) - - Show Bio

Death solos. Oblivion solos.

Moderator
#35 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@Driger said:

@kingkronos said:

Oblivion solos easily....

.....in your dreams.

Actually he does solo , i know people are going to say Chaos War was a rubbish writing and all but its canon and we just can ignore what was shown.A mere avatar of Oblivion (Chaos King) did destroyed 98% of the marvel multiverse, and was absolutely unbeatable as it gets to they had to trick and BFR him to the void where he though oh i ate the universe i am a king, and was never heard again.

That alone puts Oblivion beyond even full PF.

#36 Posted by dondave (39941 posts) - - Show Bio

Oblivion solos

#37 Posted by Driger (140 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Driger said:

@kingkronos said:

Oblivion solos easily....

.....in your dreams.

Actually he does solo , i know people are going to say Chaos War was a rubbish writing and all but its canon and we just can ignore what was shown.A mere avatar of Oblivion (Chaos King) did destroyed 98% of the marvel multiverse, and was absolutely unbeatable as it gets to they had to trick and BFR him to the void where he though oh i ate the universe i am a king, and was never heard again.

That alone puts Oblivion beyond even full PF.

Do you have something against Phoenix and me ? because in every phoenix vs .. threads you always say that I am wrong.

Anyways, To create something is Much more difficult than to destroy something. Phoenix is Prime fore of creation > oblivion(force of destruction).

#38 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@Driger said:

Do you have something against Phoenix and me ? because in every phoenix vs .. threads you always say that I am wrong.

Sorry did i miss something? I have no idea where this is coming from.

Did i say you were wrong, i gave you a "possible" reason why someone believes Oblivion would solo by explaining what happened in Chaos War. How do you take that as me having some personal vendetta against you is beyond me.

I have no personal vendetta against anyone, nor at any time in this debate have i been rude.

Anyways, To create something is Much more difficult than to destroy something. Phoenix is Prime fore of creation > oblivion(force of destruction).

Apart from the character hyperbole we have no seen Phoenix Force herself create anything, we know the creation is attributed to the big bang which Phoenix Force is not.

Furthermore, Phoenix Force itself doesnt have feats to suggest he can take on Oblivion either.

If you are going to go on pure hyperbole and character statement, Oblivion is "nothingness" , how do you actually defeat, or even harm nothingness?

#39 Posted by FiMFTW (691 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't take part in this thread because of the -Stupid- music.

#40 Posted by All_Mighty_Beyonder (1888 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Driger said:

@kingkronos said:

Oblivion solos easily....

.....in your dreams.

Actually he does solo , i know people are going to say Chaos War was a rubbish writing and all but its canon and we just can ignore what was shown.A mere avatar of Oblivion (Chaos King) did destroyed 98% of the marvel multiverse, and was absolutely unbeatable as it gets to they had to trick and BFR him to the void where he though oh i ate the universe i am a king, and was never heard again.

That alone puts Oblivion beyond even full PF.

actually it's a little odd that Mikaboshi absorbed 98% of multiverse when all events where only universal. my personal view is : that panel where Amadus Sho said it's 98% of multiverse without any background or evidence is a PIS. i think Mikaboshi absobed 98% of the universe.

@Driger:

Do you have something against Phoenix and me ? because in every phoenix vs .. threads you always say that I am wrong.
Anyways, To create something is Much more difficult than to destroy something. Phoenix is Prime fore of creation > oblivion(force of destruction)

force of creation or force of life, those are only names, void names if they aren't backed up by feats. and the best feats PF had are universal - i don't think PF stand a chance against Oblivion.

#41 Posted by Driger (140 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

@Driger said:

Do you have something against Phoenix and me ? because in every phoenix vs .. threads you always say that I am wrong.

Sorry did i miss something? I have no idea where this is coming from.

Did i say you were wrong, i gave you a "possible" reason why someone believes Oblivion would solo by explaining what happened in Chaos War. How do you take that as me having some personal vendetta against you is beyond me.

I have no personal vendetta against anyone, nor at any time in this debate have i been rude.

Anyways, To create something is Much more difficult than to destroy something. Phoenix is Prime fore of creation > oblivion(force of destruction).

Apart from the character hyperbole we have no seen Phoenix Force herself create anything, we know the creation is attributed to the big bang which Phoenix Force is not.

Furthermore, Phoenix Force itself doesnt have feats to suggest he can take on Oblivion either.

If you are going to go on pure hyperbole and character statement, Oblivion is "nothingness" , how do you actually defeat, or even harm nothingness?

Phoenix is creator of LIFE. the greatest possible creation.

oblivion is multiversal. Phoenix is omniversal because everybody in omniverse except true god needs lifeforce to survive. and phoenix is the only source of life force has been saw so far.

your bio said that phoenix is multiversal. but it also said it is ommnipotent. both of these are not possible at the same time. omnipotent means one can do anything. even if she is not omniversal still it can turn itself into omniversal

#42 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@All_Mighty_Beyonder said:

actually it's a little odd that Mikaboshi absorbed 98% of multiverse when all events where only universal. my personal view is : that panel where Amadus Sho said it's 98% of multiverse without any background or evidence is a PIS. i think Mikaboshi absobed 98% of the universe.

Well we can say its odd, but Cho at that time was like the smartest dude and his statement should count. Furthermore, this is also validated to some extent by Obvilion himself during Thor Annual 01.

Also the whole point in writing Chaos War was to make it bigger than Infinity Gauntlet, so 98% of multiverse does seem within his power level.

@Driger said:

Phoenix is creator of LIFE. the greatest possible creation.

There is actually no proof of this, furthermore, its still not a valid feat in a debating website. Its that she lacks feats .

oblivion is multiversal. Phoenix is omniversal because everybody in omniverse except true god needs lifeforce to survive. and phoenix is the only source of life force has been saw so far.

Obvilion instance is a little iffy, Obvilion himself "claims" to be there before the multiversal, the bio says he is universal and states that he "claimed' to be multiversal. Furthermore, the 4 cosmic compass are meant to be on the same power level, thats how a universe is balanced, if the balance apart the universe is doom, that is what happened during Marvel: The End. Eternity, Infinity and Death, 3 other part of the compass are universal concept.

So in essence Obvilion "power" likely is multiverse as pretty much ever Abstract's is. Origin universal.

Phoenix force isnt omniversal has never been. I gave you the reason in the other thread, i even showed you an instance where Phoenix Force in the mangaverse had died without life anywhere in the multiverse , even mangaverse being affected. There is nothing in bio or scans ever attributing Phoenix force as the creator of life force.

More imporant, its not origin we are debating its power. Phoenix force best feat is destroying an entire universe, twice , in 2 What IF story arc. Thats her best feat. Attributing her omniversal power based on character hyperbole with clear lack of feat is foolhardy.

your bio said that phoenix is multiversal. but it also said it is ommnipotent. both of these are not possible at the same time. omnipotent means one can do anything. even if she is not omniversal still it can turn itself into omniversal

I explained the both to you the other thread are well. Marvel has level of infinity, the whole question Kubik answered Kosmos was, we are all powerful (aka Omnipotent) so why should we worry about anything else. Thats where Kubik explains Kosmos that there are level of infinity, and despite them being omnipotent on their own right, there are powers beyond them, Celestial. Those would be a level of omnipotent above their own.

Also everything here what you have presented is pure speculation without feats or anything concrete to prove it. That is what people what in a thread, a feat. You dont have to be able to show scans, you can name feat and story arc. A lack of feat, many clear defeats by beings far below even universal powers, certainly undermines her being omnipotent or powerful enough to beat true abstracts beings.

#43 Posted by ShootingNova (20922 posts) - - Show Bio

Either Death or Oblivion should stomp. At least the latter.

@Driger: How is life the greatest possible creation? "Omnipotence" is generally either hyperbole or referring to Accidental Omnipotence in Marvel. Also, how is Oblivion multiversal when an aspect of him destroyed 98% of the multiverse? An aspect of Oblivion is multiversal, so it will not do to class Oblivion as multiversal.

#44 Edited by Driger (140 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: Unless I get a good reason for existance of living things outside multiverse, I put phoenix on omniversal level. It never died permanently. After a long time it can resurrect itself.

Feats should not be the only way to compare characters and I gave you a reason and example for it. MoM's best feat is planetery level. still he is omniversal.

#45 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@Driger said:

@Killemall: Unless I get a good reason for existance of living things outside multiverse, I put phoenix on omniversal level.

You will have a very hard time explaining people that though.

Feats should not be the only way to compare characters and I gave you a reason and example for it. MoM's best feat is planetery level. still he is omniversal.

While i have never read Image comics there must be a good reason why MoM is valued that highly.

You can say Phoenix lacks feats, but how do you explain so many loses attributed to her. Call all of them PIS, every single loss?

#46 Posted by King-Stranglehold da first (3370 posts) - - Show Bio

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't Oblivion above the Chaos King? And didn't the Chaos King absorb 98% of the Marvel Multiverse?

#47 Posted by Driger (140 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall: I don't care about explaning that to everyone. I just told my thought.

MoM's best feat is to create god and satan. and both of them were planetery level. It was explained bu MoM himself to divine spawn. even superman can beat them. MoM is valued highly just because there is nobody above him in Image comics.

Oblivion wasn't even able to kill juggernaut. Phoenix has better feats than that.

#48 Posted by Killemall (18748 posts) - - Show Bio

@Driger said:

@Killemall: I don't care about explaning that to everyone. I just told my thought.

Fair enough, but if you genuinely believe its only your opinion, then correction people who believe Oblivion is above Phoenix is something you should avoid.

MoM's best feat is to create god and satan. and both of them were planetery level. It was explained bu MoM himself to divine spawn. even superman can beat them. MoM is valued highly just because there is nobody above him in Image comics.

Maybe man, i dont know. Havent read anything on Image comics, i am more of a Marvel person myself. Most of the collection i have are from Marvel and have few issues from DC.

Oblivion wasn't even able to kill juggernaut. Phoenix has better feats than that.

Thats inconsequential, as Juggernaut was floating helpless in Obvilion's realm. Obvilion is pretty much the key person to whom Living Trinbunal banishes people who are too big a threat, like Solorith, Nightmare etc.

What better feats does Phoenix have above Obvilion? Thats what i am asking.

#49 Posted by Driger (140 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

You can say Phoenix lacks feats, but how do you explain so many loses attributed to her. Call all of them PIS, every single loss?

I have a good explanation of it.

PF lost because it can't use all of its powers by itself. that's the only reason i see why it needs a host. pretty much like symbiotes.

Avatar of phoenix lost because it contains very tiny fraction of it. PF has unlimited powers so its not possible to possess all of it. Even a fraction of its power can't be possessed for a long time as said by Lt.

So if somehow a miracle take place and somebody can possess all power of PF them it will be truely invincible.

#50 Posted by Saren (26834 posts) - - Show Bio

@Killemall said:

Oblivion wasn't even able to kill juggernaut. Phoenix has better feats than that.

Thats inconsequential, as Juggernaut was floating helpless in Obvilion's realm.

This was also retconned in X-Men Legacy #219, so Juggernaut did die in Oblivion's realm. Once he was spat out, he came back to life.

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