Death Battle Goku vs Superman is out no lie

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deactivated-5d6746eab553d

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http://www.screwattack.com/shows/originals/death-battle/death-battle-goku-vs-superman

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CalebHara

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#2  Edited By CalebHara

@xlab3000: who won?

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Strider1992

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#3  Edited By Strider1992

@CalebHara said:

@xlab3000: who won?

Random fanboys all over the world!

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DrRenekton

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#4  Edited By DrRenekton

I skipped to the end to see who won. And It was amazing.

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deactivated-5d6746eab553d

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Lots_Of_Love

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#6  Edited By Lots_Of_Love

Called it.

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deaditegonzo

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#7  Edited By deaditegonzo

They did amazing amounts of research, and I was surprised to see them mentioning little known stories. I respect their research for certain.

DBZ fanboys shall be crying and arguing that Power Levels and Power Scaling are meaningful, and he only lost because they hate him.
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#8  Edited By YoungChief

I was honestly surprised it ended the way it did, they didn't seem to be out of character until the very end of the fight which was just jarring

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#9  Edited By Lvenger

@Strider92 said:

@CalebHara said:

@xlab3000: who won?

Random fanboys all over the world!

LMAO I knew you'd post something along these lines! KamehaMELON! :P

As for the verdict I completely agree with it. The research put into this project is mind blowing and the animation was spectacular. Now I know why they delayed it. To make it as awesome as it could possibly be. And it didn't disappoint me in the slightest. And I respect them more for finding a way to calculate Goku's strength, speed and durability.

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I think that it was a hell of a lot better than I expected to be.

I always saw Supes as superior, and I'm glad that they debunked power levels.

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#11  Edited By Bossmonster

I agree that it was a fantastic job. During it I said out loud how the delay made sense and I wasn't mad about it anymore. Well worth the wait. Though, I can't see how they will ever top this battle.

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#12  Edited By slimj87d

I'm not sure which topic to post in, since there's already 3 or 4 of them up. But I'm hearing things like "mind blowing" and "amazing research." I felt the opposite. I felt like screwattacks analysis were off, bias and misinterpreted.

Surviving a black hole?

@Silver2467 said:

Superman can survive inside a black hole unharmed


Let's analyze this assertion. Generally speaking, whenever a user submits that Superman can withstand the power of a singularity, they reference him "holding a black hole in his hand" or "flying out of a double black hole." The problem is that both of these examples disregard context. There are two occasions, to my knowledge, where Superman has come in close proximity to a black hole, both of which strained him profusely. The other instance pertaining to a "dual black hole" is completely misrepresented. If there are any other instances of Superman flying into a black hole, I hardly profess to being the most knowledgeable Superman reader, but these are the ones that are usually brought up by users here (myself included; this is as much a correction on my part as on other people's).

First, this showing is from Action Comics Annual #7. In this comic, Superman flies into space to fight the H'tros. While he destroys the H'tros vessels, one of them hurls a grenade that opens a small black hole. Superman notices this and attempts to resist its pull before being pulled in. On the rare occasion that I have seen users address this event, they usually present it as if Superman was pulled into the black hole and then escaped, but this never happened. He recognizes the black hole and flies away from it. However, the gravitational pull is powerful enough that Superman feels like his legs could be torn off. He endures genuine harm from this, and he is not even inside the black hole. Once Superman escapes its pull, he hurls a ship into its maw to collapse it. The minute size of this black hole and the fact that it could be closed by simply tossing a relatively average-sized vessel into it lead me to believe that this artificial singularity was hardly as powerful as is usually predisposed when people think of resisting the effects of a black hole, and more than that, Superman was under extreme duress just by being near it.
With that said, this comic was labeled a "Year One" story in the opening, and this was written as Superman's first space adventure. So it could be surmised that he was just not as powerful as he was later on and could therefore survive inside a black hole later in his career, an erroneous conclusion which leads us to the next example.

This is from JLA #77. To elaborate on what precedes this, a being called Mnemon uses gravity to steal people's memories, because his creator wanted to accumulate the purest expressions of art and music from the memories of entire civilizations across the universe. So Mnemon exists inside a small device that encapsulates him and his black hole in a magnetic field designed by his creator to contain him as he traverses the universe to obtain art from people's minds. (That really is all I can say about the backstory of this event because the plot of this issue is a convoluted mess.) He arrives on the moon where John Stewart and the Atom find him. Atom shrinks down to discover the singularity obstructed inside the magnetic field. Mnemon utilizes gravity to steal the JLA's memories, but their memories are restored by the Atom and Superman wrecking part of the systems of the device that houses Mnemon. After this, Mnemon pierces the magnetic field containing him, and Superman tries to stop his escape. This is where he holds the black hole. He and Green Lantern travel to a wormhole where he throws Mnemon into the wormhole. Now, why this is not impressive: the black hole inside the magnetic containment field is, according to the Atom, about the size of a dust particle, and once Superman picks it up, he can barely withstand its gravity. Even when Green Lantern helps stabilize it, Superman still feels as if his hand could be ripped apart. They only manage to reach the wormhole they hurl it into by generating a magnetic field around the singularity to suppress its effects. The containment of this singularity also leaves me with some question about its actual power, but I will leave that aside. The point is, even with Stewart's aid, Superman is hurt enormously by a dust-sized, infinitesimal black hole.
Lastly, the "double black hole" incident from Superman #191. This is just a misconstrued event because there actually is no black hole here. This actually is a wormhole connecting earth to Baxt's homeworld. To assess it point by point, Superman arrives at the S.T.A.R. Labs building where a rift is open. He flies inside to meet Baxt, who was trapped inside when he entered it from his own world. Baxt is unable to leave the rift on his own; so he reinforces Superman's efforts to escape by holding the rift open long enough for Superman to fly out and close the rift, which Superman does by flying into S.T.A.R. Labs and, apparently, (though this is shown only in one panel and without much explanation) shuts off the machine that opened the rift in the first place. Doing this closes the rift also on Baxt's world, where he arrives at once the rift is no longer present there.

Now, why do people think this is a black hole that Superman flew into? Because when he first flies into the rift, he muses about the composition of black holes, and from there, readers draw the conclusion that he was inside one. However, Superman also muses that two black holes interlocked with a passageway could form a divide in the space/time continuum, essentially generating a rift in space or a wormhole. He then goes on to say that there is no proof this could happen. Now, you could object to my saying that he was not in a black hole by isolating his statement that there is no evidence for that phenomena, but that would be reading it improperly. Superman's thought-narration was him elucidating on how the rift occurred in the first place; his suggestion that there is no evidence for a wormhole composing itself from twin black holes was expositional irony. You can tell very clearly that he was not inside a black hole if you pay attention to context. The problem is that most users simply post him emerging from the wormhole but not what happened aside from that. The first few pages show an immense rift protruding from the S.T.A.R. Labs building; had this been a black hole, it would have consumed the building. A military official informs Superman that S.T.A.R. Labs scientists opened the rift, after which pulsating energy coruscates out of it and hits the military personnel. Baxt notes that the wormhole appeared in his city as well, to which he investigated it by flying inside it. Once the rift is closed, Baxt is returned to his own planet/dimension with there being no noticeable destruction caused in the area, and others watching this once again refer to the wormhole as a "rift." The general behavior and appearance of this rift is not like a black hole; its properties and Superman's exposition attest to it being a wormhole. Hence, this is not proof of Superman surviving inside a black hole.
Conclusion: Superman has never survived inside a black hole to my knowledge. Like I said, if someone else knows of a feat I personally am not aware of, I would like to see it, because as it stands, these showings actually better serve to prove that Superman can't survive inside a black hole.

Superman can destroy a planet with heat vision because he heated up a planet with heat vision

This is just out of context. The showing people are referring to is from Adventures of Superman #620. In this comic (the plot of which, coincidentally, is as much of a mess as JLA #77), a celestial body called Cannibal Planet flies toward the sun, which causes the earth to lose solar heat and assume frigid temperatures around the globe. Superman flies to the sun to stop the Cannibal Planet, and then, to remedy the problem of lack of heat, he fires his heat vision at the earth to resume its normal temperature. Why is this out of context when placed in a battle thread? Two reasons: Number 1, Superman was sun-amped. He flew right at the sun to deal with the Cannibal Planet which crested itself on the sun's surface. Being that close to the sun, Superman's powers would be increased. Number 2, this is not a combat feat. Superman is heating up the planet, yes, but what function does that serve in a battle setting? His heat vision doesn't even cause damage to the earth, because the purpose is to reset the global temperatures. There is even a page of the Candidate standing in the rays of Superman's heat vision completely unfazed. All Superman did here was basically act as a surrogate sun for a brief period. No one and nothing was harmed; so why is this even mentioned in battle threads? An amped Superman not destroying anything with his heat vision is a useless showing to bring up in battle settings, and it lends no credence to the theory that he could destroy a planet with HV.

Superman moved a planet? I guess the scan didn't show Hal Jordan in there helping him move it either. The other thing is that they were moving the planet back into Orbit, not away and opposite of the way it was orbiting. Superboy-Prime moved planets easily, those were moving planet feats. He moved them out of orbit and into other areas they shouldn't have been.

Superman's speed? I've discussed this with Lvenger lots of times already, Superman travels at light speed, but he battles nowhere near those speeds. What good is trying to FTL bullet punch someone if you can't control it? It's like trying to fight someone and fly a jet into them. And what happens if he does hit a target around light speed? He gets KO, which leads to my next subject

Superman gets KOed flying FTL into the surface of this planet here, screwattack expresses over and over again that Superman is invincible, does that not sound bias? Goku is capable of destroying a planet easily. Is the scan above hard to believe? Not at all, Flash punched and one shotted a white martian at light speed who in turn had Superman like durability, we can all agree that white and green martians are close in scale to Kryptonias under a yellow sun.

Translated: http://magikarp46.dyndns.org/dragonball/daizenshuu/07/07-046.html

For the word Kiri:

"キリ Kiri Kili An energy unit used by Bobbidi. When Bobbidi measured Goku's energy during his fight with Yakon, this unit was used. [Par.] Goku's energy level is over 3,000 kili. At approximately 200-300 kili, one can destroy 1 or 2 planets.

Babidi only measured Goku's energy in SS1 and according to that he can destroy 10 to 15 planets. In SS2 and SS3 his output of destruction would be dozens of times more than that. So their assessment of Superman's durability and Goku's output power is off.

I could keep going on, but people who don't know me or have a low number of post will try and label me as a fanboy, when those of you that know me know I'm not. I, along with the other experienced debaters, just don't like things getting taken out of context or being misinterpreted.

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#13  Edited By dondave

@SlimJ87D: I have a question, for you, how would you judge that someone is fighting at FTL speeds?

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#14  Edited By laflux

@deaditegonzo:

@SlimJ87D said:

I'm not sure which topic to post in, since there's already 3 or 4 of them up. But I'm hearing things like "mind blowing" and "amazing research." I felt the opposite. I felt like screwattacks analysis were off, bias and misinterpreted.

Surviving a black hole?

@Silver2467 said:

Superman can survive inside a black hole unharmed


Let's analyze this assertion. Generally speaking, whenever a user submits that Superman can withstand the power of a singularity, they reference him "holding a black hole in his hand" or "flying out of a double black hole." The problem is that both of these examples disregard context. There are two occasions, to my knowledge, where Superman has come in close proximity to a black hole, both of which strained him profusely. The other instance pertaining to a "dual black hole" is completely misrepresented. If there are any other instances of Superman flying into a black hole, I hardly profess to being the most knowledgeable Superman reader, but these are the ones that are usually brought up by users here (myself included; this is as much a correction on my part as on other people's).

First, this showing is from Action Comics Annual #7. In this comic, Superman flies into space to fight the H'tros. While he destroys the H'tros vessels, one of them hurls a grenade that opens a small black hole. Superman notices this and attempts to resist its pull before being pulled in. On the rare occasion that I have seen users address this event, they usually present it as if Superman was pulled into the black hole and then escaped, but this never happened. He recognizes the black hole and flies away from it. However, the gravitational pull is powerful enough that Superman feels like his legs could be torn off. He endures genuine harm from this, and he is not even inside the black hole. Once Superman escapes its pull, he hurls a ship into its maw to collapse it. The minute size of this black hole and the fact that it could be closed by simply tossing a relatively average-sized vessel into it lead me to believe that this artificial singularity was hardly as powerful as is usually predisposed when people think of resisting the effects of a black hole, and more than that, Superman was under extreme duress just by being near it.
With that said, this comic was labeled a "Year One" story in the opening, and this was written as Superman's first space adventure. So it could be surmised that he was just not as powerful as he was later on and could therefore survive inside a black hole later in his career, an erroneous conclusion which leads us to the next example.

This is from JLA #77. To elaborate on what precedes this, a being called Mnemon uses gravity to steal people's memories, because his creator wanted to accumulate the purest expressions of art and music from the memories of entire civilizations across the universe. So Mnemon exists inside a small device that encapsulates him and his black hole in a magnetic field designed by his creator to contain him as he traverses the universe to obtain art from people's minds. (That really is all I can say about the backstory of this event because the plot of this issue is a convoluted mess.) He arrives on the moon where John Stewart and the Atom find him. Atom shrinks down to discover the singularity obstructed inside the magnetic field. Mnemon utilizes gravity to steal the JLA's memories, but their memories are restored by the Atom and Superman wrecking part of the systems of the device that houses Mnemon. After this, Mnemon pierces the magnetic field containing him, and Superman tries to stop his escape. This is where he holds the black hole. He and Green Lantern travel to a wormhole where he throws Mnemon into the wormhole. Now, why this is not impressive: the black hole inside the magnetic containment field is, according to the Atom, about the size of a dust particle, and once Superman picks it up, he can barely withstand its gravity. Even when Green Lantern helps stabilize it, Superman still feels as if his hand could be ripped apart. They only manage to reach the wormhole they hurl it into by generating a magnetic field around the singularity to suppress its effects. The containment of this singularity also leaves me with some question about its actual power, but I will leave that aside. The point is, even with Stewart's aid, Superman is hurt enormously by a dust-sized, infinitesimal black hole.
Lastly, the "double black hole" incident from Superman #191. This is just a misconstrued event because there actually is no black hole here. This actually is a wormhole connecting earth to Baxt's homeworld. To assess it point by point, Superman arrives at the S.T.A.R. Labs building where a rift is open. He flies inside to meet Baxt, who was trapped inside when he entered it from his own world. Baxt is unable to leave the rift on his own; so he reinforces Superman's efforts to escape by holding the rift open long enough for Superman to fly out and close the rift, which Superman does by flying into S.T.A.R. Labs and, apparently, (though this is shown only in one panel and without much explanation) shuts off the machine that opened the rift in the first place. Doing this closes the rift also on Baxt's world, where he arrives at once the rift is no longer present there.

Now, why do people think this is a black hole that Superman flew into? Because when he first flies into the rift, he muses about the composition of black holes, and from there, readers draw the conclusion that he was inside one. However, Superman also muses that two black holes interlocked with a passageway could form a divide in the space/time continuum, essentially generating a rift in space or a wormhole. He then goes on to say that there is no proof this could happen. Now, you could object to my saying that he was not in a black hole by isolating his statement that there is no evidence for that phenomena, but that would be reading it improperly. Superman's thought-narration was him elucidating on how the rift occurred in the first place; his suggestion that there is no evidence for a wormhole composing itself from twin black holes was expositional irony. You can tell very clearly that he was not inside a black hole if you pay attention to context. The problem is that most users simply post him emerging from the wormhole but not what happened aside from that. The first few pages show an immense rift protruding from the S.T.A.R. Labs building; had this been a black hole, it would have consumed the building. A military official informs Superman that S.T.A.R. Labs scientists opened the rift, after which pulsating energy coruscates out of it and hits the military personnel. Baxt notes that the wormhole appeared in his city as well, to which he investigated it by flying inside it. Once the rift is closed, Baxt is returned to his own planet/dimension with there being no noticeable destruction caused in the area, and others watching this once again refer to the wormhole as a "rift." The general behavior and appearance of this rift is not like a black hole; its properties and Superman's exposition attest to it being a wormhole. Hence, this is not proof of Superman surviving inside a black hole.
Conclusion: Superman has never survived inside a black hole to my knowledge. Like I said, if someone else knows of a feat I personally am not aware of, I would like to see it, because as it stands, these showings actually better serve to prove that Superman can't survive inside a black hole.

Superman can destroy a planet with heat vision because he heated up a planet with heat vision

This is just out of context. The showing people are referring to is from Adventures of Superman #620. In this comic (the plot of which, coincidentally, is as much of a mess as JLA #77), a celestial body called Cannibal Planet flies toward the sun, which causes the earth to lose solar heat and assume frigid temperatures around the globe. Superman flies to the sun to stop the Cannibal Planet, and then, to remedy the problem of lack of heat, he fires his heat vision at the earth to resume its normal temperature. Why is this out of context when placed in a battle thread? Two reasons: Number 1, Superman was sun-amped. He flew right at the sun to deal with the Cannibal Planet which crested itself on the sun's surface. Being that close to the sun, Superman's powers would be increased. Number 2, this is not a combat feat. Superman is heating up the planet, yes, but what function does that serve in a battle setting? His heat vision doesn't even cause damage to the earth, because the purpose is to reset the global temperatures. There is even a page of the Candidate standing in the rays of Superman's heat vision completely unfazed. All Superman did here was basically act as a surrogate sun for a brief period. No one and nothing was harmed; so why is this even mentioned in battle threads? An amped Superman not destroying anything with his heat vision is a useless showing to bring up in battle settings, and it lends no credence to the theory that he could destroy a planet with HV.

Superman moved a planet? I guess the scan didn't show Hal Jordan in there helping him move it either. The other thing is that they were moving the planet back into Orbit, not away and opposite of the way it was orbiting. Superboy-Prime moved planets easily, those were moving planet feats. He moved them out of orbit and into other areas they shouldn't have been.

Superman's speed? I've discussed this with Lvenger lots of times already, Superman travels at light speed, but he battles nowhere near those speeds. What good is trying to FTL bullet punch someone if you can't control it? It's like trying to fight someone and fly a jet into them. And what happens if he does hit a target around light speed? He gets KO, which leads to my next subject

Superman gets KOed flying FTL into the surface of this planet here, screwattack expresses over and over again that Superman is invincible, does that not sound bias? Goku is capable of destroying a planet easily. Is the scan above hard to believe? Not at all, Flash punched and one shotted a white martian at light speed who in turn had Superman like durability, we can all agree that white and green martians are close in scale to Kryptonias under a yellow sun.

Translated: http://magikarp46.dyndns.org/dragonball/daizenshuu/07/07-046.html

For the word Kiri:

"キリ Kiri Kili An energy unit used by Bobbidi. When Bobbidi measured Goku's energy during his fight with Yakon, this unit was used. [Par.] Goku's energy level is over 3,000 kili. At approximately 200-300 kili, one can destroy 1 or 2 planets.

Babidi only measured Goku's energy in SS1 and according to that he can destroy 10 to 15 planets. In SS2 and SS3 his output of destruction would be dozens of times more than that. So their assessment of Superman's durability and Goku's output power is off.

I could keep going on, but people who don't know me or have a low number of post will try and label me as a fanboy, when those of you that know me know I'm not. I, along with the other experienced debaters, just don't like things getting taken out of context or being misinterpreted.

Yep me and Slim shared similar gripes.

Just to add my own twist- copied from my own post in the Superman vs Goku thread which is now locked due to trolling.

"I knew there was going to be mistakes, I was prepared for that, but looking back at it, there are actually alot of errors.

1. Goku's Strength. Using the King Kai Training regime is PIS. He got alot stronger due to training on the way to Planet Namek, and being injured after having his body swapped with Ginyu, then recovering. What's more annoying is that they completely disregard Kid Goku moving a huge rock and instead go with his PIS feat. To extend that, strength and striking power are not the same. DBZ characters have alot higher striking power than lifting strength, enough to cause harm to those who can endure planet busting attacks.

2.Superman's Speed. Yes Superman can move very fast in a straight line, but his combat speed and the speed at which he can move his limbs is considerably slower. Flash proved that when they had a foot race and Flash wasn't playing around, Wonder-Woman and Batman agree that Wonder-Woman has better combat speed than Superman

3. Goku's Speed. The snake way feat was wrong on so many levels- I'll just leave it at that.

4. They were also wrong with the power-levels and scaling. While direct power scaling doesn't work, the idea that we cannot say Goku can bust a planet even tho he has a power-level which dwarfs someone who can is silly.

5. As for the battle- Superman doesn't usually sun-dip during battles.

And finally, is it me or is there a bit of fan wanking going on here? Superman has no limits? Lol what? He didn't hold a mini Black hole in his hands for a start, and feats indicate he can't do it anyway. And as for the Justice league itself, Flash, MM and Wonder-Woman can beat him, Flash and MM easily at that. If he had no limits, he would be unbeatable".

As another user put it, they promised ground braking research and we instead got dumb snake way calculations, made dumber since he got stronger after that, and silly PIS feat, then multiply that by his transformations.

For the record, I'm not annoyed Goku lost, I'm annoyed at how this "definitive" battle to end all battles took so long to be released, how shoddy the animation was and the poor logic. I stick by my guns that Superman and DBZ debaters native to this site would have done a better job with the resources used.

@Strider92 said:

@CalebHara said:

@xlab3000: who won?

Random fanboys all over the world!

Get Out >_< .

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Pokergeist

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#15  Edited By Pokergeist

@SlimJ87D: That match was BIAS as hell.

Superman has IMP (Infinite Mass Punch) which is Flash move... WTF! Thats like giving Batman Wonder Woman lasso for gear.

Superman can fight 8x Speed of light. (They never distinguish travel speed with combat speed)

Superman survived over 15 son exploding attack...... wtf! That was some off hand comment from a non cannon movie!

Superman Held a mini black hole... no he didnt.

Superman pulls planets easily. That has been debunk many times with Green Lantern doing alot of the work or help from Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman.

Then to make things worse they made Goku have the Abridge Voice over and acting like a out of character idiot. They claim Goku is the Martial Arts Genius but have Superman Pressure Point (a move he never really shows) him easy and Goku clueless as to what happen.

Overall it was terrible bias in Superman favor My Firend who loves super Man felt bad for Goku when the Death Battle started busting out ALL STAR SUPERMAN as base level Supes....

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#16  Edited By laflux

@CadenceV2: lol true. However in fairness, New-52 Supes, who they also showed a picture of, has strength feats equvical to All-Star Supes with the who Bench Presses the Planet and Kick the moon out of Orbit thing.

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#17  Edited By Pokergeist

@laflux: Look at my Gripes. They were Bias as Peach beating Zelda or Link beating Cloud.

They gave Superman everything feat wise, nerf Goku, then gave Supes BS non cannon feats to add insult to injury.

I enjoy the ocassional Death Battle. But they are bias.

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#18  Edited By laflux

@CadenceV2 said:

@laflux: Look at my Gripes. They were Bias as Pech beating Zelda or Link beating Cloud.

They gave Superman everything feat wise, nerf Goku, then gave Supes BS non cannon feats to add insult to injury.

I enjoy the ocassional Death Battle. But they are bias.

Yes, but I fear many will label our complaints as simple Fanboy Rage.

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#19  Edited By Pokergeist

@laflux: New 52 comment is BS too when New 52 supes Strength was no match vs Helspont or Hei who have not at all shown feat wise those levels. Superman Nu 52 never feat wise shown that strength other than a off hand comment in one panel. It just dont add up and as far as Im concern WIS or Hyperbole.

Like I said no one takes this as fact for Herculese why should we take New 52 Supes comment as fact?

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#20  Edited By Bossmonster

You all say this like they didn't take half of Gokus abilities of of GT and Movies which aren't Cannon either.

needless to say. superman all day.

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#21  Edited By laflux

@Bossmonster said:

You all say this like they didn't take half of Gokus abilities of of GT and Movies which aren't Cannon either.

needless to say. superman all day.

Nah, I don't have a problem with that, or that Supes won TBH. I have already listed my gripes, and stand by them.

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slimj87d

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#22  Edited By slimj87d

@Bossmonster said:

You all say this like they didn't take half of Gokus abilities of of GT and Movies which aren't Cannon either.

needless to say. superman all day.

I don't really care about GT or the none canon stuff.

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AngryHulks

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#23  Edited By AngryHulks

@CadenceV2 said:

@SlimJ87D: That match was BIAS as hell.

Superman has IMP (Infinite Mass Punch) which is Flash move... WTF! Thats like giving Batman Wonder Woman lasso for gear.

Superman can fight 8x Speed of light. (They never distinguish travel speed with combat speed)

Superman survived over 15 son exploding attack...... wtf! That was some off hand comment from a non cannon movie!

Superman Held a mini black hole... no he didnt.

Superman pulls planets easily. That has been debunk many times with Green Lantern doing alot of the work or help from Martian Manhunter and Wonder Woman.

Then to make things worse they made Goku have the Abridge Voice over and acting like a out of character idiot. They claim Goku is the Martial Arts Genius but have Superman Pressure Point (a move he never really shows) him easy and Goku clueless as to what happen.

Overall it was terrible bias in Superman favor My Firend who loves super Man felt bad for Goku when the Death Battle started busting out ALL STAR SUPERMAN as base level Supes....

Well, I don't think they use Superman surviving 15 exploding stars, they even said it is "probably a hyperbole," then they switch to that at least Superman has survived one supernova explosion in comic.

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X_insignia1

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#24  Edited By X_insignia1

Fanboys gathered from all over the world, the comments turned into a flame war.

EL OH EL.

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Pokergeist

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#25  Edited By Pokergeist

@SlimJ87D said:

@Bossmonster said:

You all say this like they didn't take half of Gokus abilities of of GT and Movies which aren't Cannon either.

needless to say. superman all day.

I don't really care about GT or the none canon stuff.

GT was dumb. I stand by a SS3 should have a good shot at winning simply because Super Man has been beaten and harm by less than planet busters. He really has. I just dont like the Fan Wanking that when with Superman. They took everything as fact while proving FALSE on Goku feats.

Its like they took the time to accurately portray Goku in the Summary but then made him the Abridge (voice and all) Idiot in the fight while doing no debunking for Superman and took everything as Base level Supes.

@AngryHulks said:

Well, I don't think they use Superman surviving 15 exploding stars, they even said it is "probably a hyperbole," then they switch to that at least Superman has survived one supernova explosion in comic.

They shouldn't even mention it if they thought it was Hyperbole. They mention it on purpose.

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the_stegman

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#26  Edited By the_stegman  Moderator

I have always been on the Team Superman side for this battle, but man, have you seen the comments on their page?? it's chaos, a bunch of fanboys who know little to nothing about the opposing character ranting to one another...although, that's pretty much how it's always been since this match up's inception.

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AngryHulks

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#27  Edited By AngryHulks

@CadenceV2 said:

@SlimJ87D said:

@Bossmonster said:

You all say this like they didn't take half of Gokus abilities of of GT and Movies which aren't Cannon either.

needless to say. superman all day.

I don't really care about GT or the none canon stuff.

GT was dumb. I stand by a SS3 should have a good shot at winning simply because Super Man has been beaten and harm by less than planet busters. He really has. I just dont like the Fan Wanking that when with Superman. They took everything as fact while proving FALSE on Goku feats.

Its like they took the time to accurately portray Goku in the Summary but then made him the Abridge (voice and all) Idiot in the fight while doing no debunking for Superman and took everything as Base level Supes.

@AngryHulks said:

Well, I don't think they use Superman surviving 15 exploding stars, they even said it is "probably a hyperbole," then they switch to that at least Superman has survived one supernova explosion in comic.

They shouldn't even mention it if they thought it was Hyperbole. They mention it on purpose.

Regardless, Superman did survived a supernova, and energy output of the supernova far exceeded the required energy to bust a planet. Of course, the space is large, and Superman would only received fraction of the total energy released from the supernova, but the portion is still big. It takes about a week for the Sun to generate enough energy output to destroy Earth-sized planet, and typical supernova unleash the energy output as much as the Sun produced in its entire main sequence lifetime in a flash. Even with that much volume of space to dissipate heat, radiation, and shockwaves, the energy Superman have tanked is still huge, not to mention he was at close proximity to it also.

I would love to go deeper into the science, but maybe that's not necessary for now.

It seems that Death Battle used high-end feat from both, and ignore other feat. They even said Superman's power is inconsistent, he can be harmed by tank one day and survived supernova in other day, depends on writer and their needs. However, it seems that it's quite true that Superman is as strong as their writer wants him to be.

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Lvenger

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#28  Edited By Lvenger

@SlimJ87D: But do you agree with the verdict though? Because I'm fine with the verdict they reached. Granted you raise good points but in the end Goku is inferior to Superman in terms of stats. And I'm not sure any of us can make the claim we could do a better job than they could with the same resources.

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slimj87d

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#29  Edited By slimj87d

@Lvenger said:

@SlimJ87D: But do you agree with the verdict though? Because I'm fine with the verdict they reached. Granted you raise good points but in the end Goku is inferior to Superman in terms of stats. And I'm not sure any of us can make the claim we could do a better job than they could with the same resources.

I do not, I could have if their analysis was accurate and if they were able to prove Superman could win but they did not.

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Bossmonster

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#30  Edited By Bossmonster

@CadenceV2: @SlimJ87D: @laflux: I'm going to say this and I'm not trying to start anything. Just expressing my over all opinion.

Here is the thing, that gets me. For all the feats and facts people throw out, what does it matter in the long run when the fact is that Goku Always, always loses. Just think about it. He's wins are only by help or coming in at the last moment to finish off an already beaten person.

Goku vs Raddic. Got stomped. Actually was killed and it was 2 v 1 in his favor. Piccolo wins

Goku vs Vegeta. Got Stomp. Completely lost the fight. Gohan wins.

Goku vs Ginyu. Lost again. Only came back because of help from everyone else. Vegeta wins.

Goku vs Freeza. Stomp! Freeza for some reason didn't shoot Goku in the chest and killed Piccolo. The went head to head with SSJ1 at his full power but this was after he'd taken all that damage from other attacks and still he didn't lose. The plant popped and still freeza didn't die and they never had a rematch as Trucks killed him first. Draw.

Goku vs Cell, his first fight after along team. Beaten up. Admits defeat and backs down. Later dies to a simple self destruct planet buster and went so far to kill half his friends. Gohan wins.

Goku vs Vegeta 2 Evenly match until like a full he turns his back on the guy trying to kill him and is K.O.'ed. Another lose. Loses.

Goku Vs Fat Buu. Only really buying time but completely ineffective in his SS3 coming out. Runs away.

Goku Vs Kid buu complete stomp. Loses again. Needs help from others again. Fat Buu, Vegeta even the freaking Dragon. Wins after getting help from much of the supporting cast.

We can go power level this and Planet bust that, but the fact is Goku is whack. He's never wins a fair fight, despite all this "I want to fight fairly.' Talk. Vegeta even explains that Much of Goku's power comes from the amazing support group that he has. Which is why he tried to mimic that to gain more power.

So, when you guy talk about them making Goku into a idiot or being bias, you're just wrong. Goku was as moron. He let go of His brother and was killed for it. He spared vegeta which got some many other people killed. He didn't finish off Cell which got him and his master killed. He fought Vegeta half assed directly causing the return of Buu (instead of I don't know Sensing bobidi and IT'ing to him and kicking his butt.) This cause not only everyone on the planet to be killed but several other worlds that they never wished back.

How is Goku not a complete freaking moron. He always loses and never thinks and he's supposed to be the "Greatest martial artist of all time" and one of the "Most Legendary Hero's"???

No. Not the case at all. So forget the power levels and scales and go off facts. Goku has never once one a real 1v1 fight after the start of DBZ. Going of his history, he would lose to Superman because A)He is a moron and would do something stupid like Beam in directly into the sun. B)Because in reality he's not that good.

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slimj87d

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#31  Edited By slimj87d

@Bossmonster: What does this actually prove?

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Lvenger

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#32  Edited By Lvenger

@SlimJ87D said:

@Lvenger said:

@SlimJ87D: But do you agree with the verdict though? Because I'm fine with the verdict they reached. Granted you raise good points but in the end Goku is inferior to Superman in terms of stats. And I'm not sure any of us can make the claim we could do a better job than they could with the same resources.

I do not, I could have if their analysis was accurate and if they were able to prove Superman could win but they did not.

With all due respect I have to disagree with you. Your points stand as valid but the fact is that they did show Superman was superior to Goku in terms of the relevant stats, even when your criticisms are taken into account. As for yours and Green Lantern doing most of the planet pulling, I don't see it that way. Note that all Hal does is create a construct that enables Superman to pull the Earth. If he tried moving it by hand, it might not legitimately work or some serious damage could be done. Hal's constuct, from the looks of things just enables Superman to actually pull the Earth. And even if it didn't he's still pulling the Earth against Starbreaker's will to move it to the Sun. An impressive feat in itself.

@laflux: Two scans to counter your better hitting power hypothesis.

1.

Superman punching Lobo into orbit. No DBZ character has ever shown that kind of hitting power.

2. The Maxwell Lord instigated Superman vs Wonder Woman fight. Note that Lord states the fight takes place in under two minutes. Which means that in order to get back to Earth, Superman had to pelt WW so that that she reached FTL speeds. Again no DBZ character has shown that kind of hitting power.

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Bossmonster

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#33  Edited By Bossmonster

@AngryHulks: Dude, I actually agree with what you said, but here is what people ignore while scream about this bias. Superman bust planets by slamming his body into them and lets say that leaves him K'O'd. We know from up to Kid Buu a planet Buster would Kill Goku. He says it out right right. The Ball didn't bust the system or anything of that effect. Just the planet. Probably had more power but that's moot. Goku would have died. Superman survived not only a planet bust but doing it with his on body. Not his heat vision or some other beam attack. That alone say he'd tank 90 percent of Goku's attacks. And those attack have always drained the heck of of him. If it doesn't KO Clark, then what? He's at Half power fighting now? If her was in SSJ3, that would serious screw him as the power from that for leaves like a running facet.

So what does all that stuff even matter. All the number and feats are such a smoke screen. Goku just doesn't have the stats for it. It's clear as day.

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#34  Edited By Emperorb777

I fine with the fight it was entertaining they where generous to Goku with whole surviving heat vision to the back and sensu bean coming from no where thing even though Superman was supposed to have no morals but was still going non lethal but whatevs. It wasn't anywhere near bad as the WW vs Rogue battle with Rogue blocking WW Tiara with her arms or getting inst caught in the lasso.

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#35  Edited By Bossmonster

@SlimJ87D: It proves that everyones efforts to "Prove this" and "Prove that" are just a nice way of making a really simple thing much more complicated than it is. Goku would lose, like he has ever single time he as ever battle anyone. (In DBZ. I never finished DB)

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slimj87d

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#36  Edited By slimj87d

@Lvenger: I can agree that Superman is probably stronger, but I disagree that he is faster combat wise and more durable. Again, DBZ characters are fighting and perofrming feats that blow up planets and destroy moons (confirmed with Piccolo destroying the moon and again in the databook with Akira talks about the Kiri device) where is Superman got KOed, again from busting a single planet.

They did not prove that he is faster or more durable to change my mind.

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Pokergeist

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#37  Edited By Pokergeist

@SlimJ87D said:

@Lvenger said:

@SlimJ87D: But do you agree with the verdict though? Because I'm fine with the verdict they reached. Granted you raise good points but in the end Goku is inferior to Superman in terms of stats. And I'm not sure any of us can make the claim we could do a better job than they could with the same resources.

I do not, I could have if their analysis was accurate and if they were able to prove Superman could win but they did not.

Agreed, nerfing Goku with the truth (completely understandable) then using NOTHING but WIS High End Feats was terrible. IMP... really? They played that up so much and its not even Supermans move!

@Lvenger: All the logic for Debating Superman as accurate goes out the window when they brought in All Star Superman as relevant as well giving Superman the IMP that killed Goku Dragon Punch in the end....

BS.

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#38  Edited By god_spawn  Moderator

We already have a thread for this topic and more than enough debates with these two.